Originally posted by eccoton Come on Daff this is Eccoton you are talking to. I have respond specifiaclly to you more then any other person on these froums. You have walk the fine line of insults at me plenty of times and it never bothers me. Pointing it out is different then being upset by it. My comments here were not specifically directed at you. I have never called you a mental defective. In one post suggested you may have issues with hating SOE when you quote the same reponse by me a week after the first time you quoted it, as if you forgot you had already quoted it 6 days earlier in the same way. I have said more then once you are a smart guy and we are wasting time dancing around this issue as much as we have. You know darn well I have never gone out of my way to insulted you. You may have been mad by what I have said but my years of posts prove I do not engage in insults. I stop responding to your questions on ethics by saying it was not out of disrespect but I see no point in it anymore, since we go over the same stuff again and again and will never agree. You know that is true. Yes, I have suggested you have tried to bait and troll me and yes I definetly think you are a SOE "hater". If you are insulted by that then so be it.
When you begin posts like this: [note this was posted to someone else in response to them calling soe unethical]
SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior.
You are in fact doing exactly what you criticize other people doing to you. It doesn't matter that people insult you with words and you choose to use emoticons in place of words, the effect is the same. You are calling someone nuts for stating their opinion. Yet when I point out that you do the same thing you rationalize and ignore it. However you want to slice it you engage in the same activities you feel you are persecuted by. As fisher pointed out above you bring some of that on yourself by interchanging facts and positions.
I have an issue with your misrepresenting facts as being opinions. You cannot simply take something that is a textbook example of unethical behavior and choose to treat it like an opinion and choose to see it as something else.
Saying it doesn't bother you, fine. Saying you enjoy other things fine. Overlook it fine. Saying it is ethical to lie and break promises, no. That is like pointing out that a ball is round and circular in every aspect, but refusing to acknowledge it is a sphere, because in your opinion it is a square. Opinions can be wrong when evidence proves them to be.
When has anyone ever insisted that SONY can do no wrong?
I doubt anyone has said that and I know I have never said that, but like sony everyone needs a hook lol. I mean it made people look. However as stated I myself found the OP to be entertaining in that it was this arms lenght list of things and some of which are occuring in other companies as well especially the root kits.
We are not however dealing with a forum or a group of people that see shades of grey. They only paint and see things one way and to them its either black or white. Unfortunately the real world is mostly shades of grey.
When has anyone ever insisted that SONY can do no wrong?
I doubt anyone has said that and I know I have never said that, but like sony everyone needs a hook lol. I mean it made people look. However as stated I myself found the OP to be entertaining in that it was this arms lenght list of things and some of which are occuring in other companies as well especially the root kits.
We are not however dealing with a forum or a group of people that see shades of grey. They only paint and see things one way and to them its either black or white. Unfortunately the real world is mostly shades of grey.
Would SONY be a dark charcoal grey or a pale, whitish grey to you? If most of the real world is shades of grey, what shade of grey is SONY?
Personally I feel the black/white grey argument is most often used to somehow justify "black" behavior (or of you prefer, dark, dusky grey behavior). It is intended to diffuse the argument a person is making.
At any rate, once again, "other people do it too" isn't a reasonable argument here. It lacks relevance in this discussion. This is an SWG refuge forum -- we aren't here to discuss the ethics of Nike or some other company.
Originally posted by ArcAngel3 Erm, Sony as a corporation was fined six digits for some of this stuff weren't they? Suggests organizational responsiblity doesn't it? If the FTC takes action and fine's a company for breaking the law, is that really hogwash? I don't think so. We may have to agree to disagree on that one. Also, if you want to simply compare SOE's history with Blizzard's regarding consumer complaints and ethical controversy, that works for me. Did Blizz claim quests were working as intended when contacts were missing? Did Blizz say that one of their game versions was here to stay and then replace it a few months later? Did Blizz sell people an expansion and advertise features for it, and then the day after announce that these features were scheduled for deletion? Are Blizzard TCG tournaments banned in Nevada because they charge entry fees and offer prizes? Did Blizz completey revamp their live game twice despite consumer protests? Have Bizz devs (current or former) ever publicly posted on their blogs telling players to eat dick? lol I still can't believe that actually happened with Rubenfield. So, ok if Sony is too broad an umbrella, let's narrow it down and compare MMO companies, their practices and their results. P.S. If anyone wonders who the hardcore defenders of SOE are on these boards, you may want to make a list
The only thing I am defending is rational and logical thinking, something you havent shown us yet. "sony was fined 6 digits"...? Do you know how many companies are paying out money for lawsuits, mistakes or just out right stupidity? if you think Sony is the only one then you are sorely mistaken. Feel free to look up any lawsuits on the chain of companies that own blizzard for example.
Going back to "sony paying 6 digits".... Did you know some guy recently fell off his bike and blamed it on the sidewalk, which then ended up with him blaming the city. He was able to sue for 5 million dollars because he was a dumb ass and fell off his bike. He got away with it! Does that make the city wrong? Does it make them evil? Or does it mean some guy is taking advantage of the system. Sadly when someone sues a department of the city, and the city fronts the bill, it comes out of tax payer dollars. Its different with private companies and corporations...but guess what, the point remains the same. It doesnt make the city/corporation/company evil, bad, or wrong. In fact, in this case the guy was wrong, and used the system to get away with it.
Just like a burglar can use the system to sue the owner of a home that hes breaking into, because he hurt himself on the property.
Hey did you know PETA is filing charges because a game contains animals that can get killed. Did you know they can get away with it, claim its supporting animal cruelty, and get a nice paycheck if they win in court. People milk the loopholes in the system, and if you noticed they all claim its "ethical" bullshiet.
Im telling you, you dont have a valid case for your argument. All i see is typical Sony hate, like a liberal to hates conservatives for no reason other than thats what he identifies with himself as doing. It sounds like you rally under a "hate sony" banner, and no matter how illogical it is, you feel it must be your mission to make them look worse, since its some how a crusade. I just dont see the logic in this, especially when you see every single big company being the target for this kind of stuff. If you really feel pissed off, feel free to rage against the banking system thats destroying the worlds economy, the greedy corporations that are actually the CAUSE of real unethical practices and events... Trust me, your time would be better spend there than raging against Sony on a video game forum.
Just because a company is forced to pay a sum of money, either because they didnt want to deal with it and because it just wasnt worth fighting, or because they were indeed some
We can compare the sidewalk example to the rootkits if you like, or the misleading marketting for PSP, or the illegal collection of information from minors on the internet, or the judge's comments about Sony paying someone for his testimony in court.
I agree that just because someone wins money in court does not mean they were right. If you review these cases, however, I think you'll see that the cash penalty wasn't the most compelling part of the argument. I'm just saying that an 18.5 million dollar fine does not appear trivial.
Also, I just post here as a hobby. Believe me, I spend a lot more time and energy addressing some of the other issues you mention. This is me taking a break lol.
I appreciate your arguments too, they're very intelligent and logically presented, even though I disagree--with respect.
P.S. One final thought for the night, well more of a question really. If Sony wants to seperate itself from the tarnished reputation of some of its subsidiaries, is it taking steps to ensure that there is appropriate management restructuring where it's needed? Are the decision makers responsible for ethical problems subject to any investigation and/or disciplinary action? If so, I think this would build some trust. Just my opinion.
A woman successfully sued macdonalds because she burnt herself on a cup of coffee that she placed between her legs cause she was in a wheelchair. She sued them on the basis that they did not warn her that the coffee in the cup was hot. Hence the evil macdonalds causes bodily harm and is unethical based on this case..
Loved this thread by the way want to see more made me wonder what you were doing this weekend .. Now I know
p.s. I hate macdonalds because their food is worse then horrible however I don't see that they should come under fire as a corporation for reasons like this, but yet they do.. sounds familiar..
Do you really think that paying off a witness in court, violating children's rights, paying off radio stations to manipulate ratings, planting rootkits, and having Sony advertisers pretend to be something they are not for movies and PSPs are the same as spilled coffee? I'm confident that most readers will be able to put these things into perspective.
lessee rootkits was an attempt to prevent music from being copied and resold or handed out free to others. It was an attempt to protect the recording artists copyrights (bunch of people got pissed off bad sony). Child rights violations and paying off a witness belongs in national enquirer if it really did happen is debatable and just "hot gossip". Not sure about "pretending to be something they are not for movies" but anyhow yeah some of it is obviously fiction other is just the consumer industry not liking certain methods adopted to prevent what basically was considered theft and widespread. It was however something for people to grab hold of as a competitor and use to increase their sales or in your case continue to hate them some more.
Oddly enough none of this has to do with sony online entertainment these are other companies under the sony umbrella. As an aside I dont particularly like sony but they make some good TV sets and some games I like. They are a major power in certain industries if you can manage to avoid their parts (probably some in your computer) and every thing else with a sony name on it I would be amazed. Do I like everything they do? No but I dont beat them over the head with it I take note and dont buy their cd's, but that is about all I can do and even then I can't totally avoid it in the end.
A guy got mad at me because at one point I wore rebooks. I wore them for years and years as I have knee problems and this brand was recommended by an orthopedics specialist. Should I have caused myself great pain because of their involvment with south africa?
My internet company which has a basic monopoly on my cable based broad band internet (rogers the guys with the ipod problems awhile back).
Bottom line archangel there is a lot of strange things happening in the world .Should I stop watching TV,using the internet or doing anything online because my alternatives are no better? Should I take more anti-inflamatories and wear a brand which causes me great pain?
Feel free to speak up about them but also realize that apart from being mildly annoyed over rootkits I still have my sony TV set and I'm pretty sure the dvd rom inside my computer is sony's and yes I use some of their software games, I still use rogers's cable and if I had not found a brand better then rebook in more recent times (Avia) I would still be wearing Reebok running shoes.
Do I excuse it? No but a lot of it is just noise created by the comptetition trying to boost their sales.
I would say I have very good perspective and dont live in a blind rage over things that are half media hype created by other corporations to try to fool consumers into switching brands.
I think sony can do plenty wrong and HAS done plenty wrong, but I know of no company out there that has done nothing wrong hence when I see a product I want that has a sony name on it I will buy it as in some cases it offers the best quality in whatever industry its a part of. They dominate the blue ray market and blue ray is on the rise. If it eventually becomes and industry norm I won't be stopping to watch movies because of the fact that sony owns the rights to blue ray.
Personally when I see you hating on one company on mmorpg.com and not others I consider its you that has lost perspective and not the other way round.
edit sorry for chopped up sentances. I dont have time to fix it and have to get back to work. This note was inserted for those with sensitive eyes who can't recognize a post written in a hurry on a coffee break :O
Yup. Everybody is doing it. It's SONY, not SOE. All irrelevant arguments.
This is a Star Wars Galaxies Veterans refuge. The only companies worth discussing here are SONY and LEC (maybe Bioware if we choose to compare SWTOR with SWG and so on).
The sad, shabby tactics of the SONY apologists are amusing to say the least. It certainly leads one to question their motives.
actually i was commenting on mmorpg.com the entire site not just the veterans refuse and I actually am not a sony fan in that I dont like everything they do. I like your lack of direction in your post though. Nice deflected backhand twirl and I give it only a 7 out of 10 because its blatantly transparent. His post has absolutely nothing to do about SWG either yet its in the veterans refuge for the game SWG it has to do with sony corporation which is more then just games so the entier post is off topic if you want to get right down to it.
My answer was relevant and dead on. He has lost perspective as he does not give the same attention to the other major corps or companies on this site as he gives sony. I mean why is he not on darkfalls forum screaming at them about their rootkits and copying and pasting media hype? Why is he not on the forums for EA games screaming about all that they have done which also includes root kits, tcgs and much else?
I know why , but do you? If you want to come down on one company for certain practices and basically say "dont buy their stuff" which is what this op is intending you have to be fair and spread the H8 around otherwise it looks like what it is. A crusade against a single company for doing exactly what others are doing in fact some have been doing them for longer then sony.
I make no apologies for sony. They are what they are a massive corporation that screws up with great regularity however they still offer services and products I want and since no other company is any better the "perspective" issue is jsut that. I have perspective and see more then just one tiny piece of the issue here. I can't say the same for the OP though who does not exist to comment on games period he exists on these forums and on mmorpg.com to bash a company and has absolutely nothing to say about the game itself. He is what he is "a man on a mission". However since at one point he claimed to like to comment on games I would say this post is way off the mark. Heck he doesn't even talk about SWG in this post. His gloves have finaly come off with this post which put a very large smile on my face. He is a lobbyist and by the looks of it a full time one. Thing is lobbyists often loose perspective and eventualy stop listening to those they are supposedly lobbying to help. At that point they then become more of a liability then anything. As their viewpoints are no longer balanced or in this case of this thread logical lol.
Originally posted by ArcAngel3 Erm, Sony as a corporation was fined six digits for some of this stuff weren't they? Suggests organizational responsiblity doesn't it? If the FTC takes action and fine's a company for breaking the law, is that really hogwash? I don't think so. We may have to agree to disagree on that one. Also, if you want to simply compare SOE's history with Blizzard's regarding consumer complaints and ethical controversy, that works for me. Did Blizz claim quests were working as intended when contacts were missing? Did Blizz say that one of their game versions was here to stay and then replace it a few months later? Did Blizz sell people an expansion and advertise features for it, and then the day after announce that these features were scheduled for deletion? Are Blizzard TCG tournaments banned in Nevada because they charge entry fees and offer prizes? Did Blizz completey revamp their live game twice despite consumer protests? Have Bizz devs (current or former) ever publicly posted on their blogs telling players to eat dick? lol I still can't believe that actually happened with Rubenfield. So, ok if Sony is too broad an umbrella, let's narrow it down and compare MMO companies, their practices and their results. P.S. If anyone wonders who the hardcore defenders of SOE are on these boards, you may want to make a list
The only thing I am defending is rational and logical thinking, something you havent shown us yet. "sony was fined 6 digits"...? Do you know how many companies are paying out money for lawsuits, mistakes or just out right stupidity? if you think Sony is the only one then you are sorely mistaken. Feel free to look up any lawsuits on the chain of companies that own blizzard for example.
Going back to "sony paying 6 digits".... Did you know some guy recently fell off his bike and blamed it on the sidewalk, which then ended up with him blaming the city. He was able to sue for 5 million dollars because he was a dumb ass and fell off his bike. He got away with it! Does that make the city wrong? Does it make them evil? Or does it mean some guy is taking advantage of the system. Sadly when someone sues a department of the city, and the city fronts the bill, it comes out of tax payer dollars. Its different with private companies and corporations...but guess what, the point remains the same. It doesnt make the city/corporation/company evil, bad, or wrong. In fact, in this case the guy was wrong, and used the system to get away with it.
Just like a burglar can use the system to sue the owner of a home that hes breaking into, because he hurt himself on the property.
Hey did you know PETA is filing charges because a game contains animals that can get killed. Did you know they can get away with it, claim its supporting animal cruelty, and get a nice paycheck if they win in court. People milk the loopholes in the system, and if you noticed they all claim its "ethical" bullshiet.
Im telling you, you dont have a valid case for your argument. All i see is typical Sony hate, like a liberal to hates conservatives for no reason other than thats what he identifies with himself as doing. It sounds like you rally under a "hate sony" banner, and no matter how illogical it is, you feel it must be your mission to make them look worse, since its some how a crusade. I just dont see the logic in this, especially when you see every single big company being the target for this kind of stuff. If you really feel pissed off, feel free to rage against the banking system thats destroying the worlds economy, the greedy corporations that are actually the CAUSE of real unethical practices and events... Trust me, your time would be better spend there than raging against Sony on a video game forum.
Just because a company is forced to pay a sum of money, either because they didnt want to deal with it and because it just wasnt worth fighting, or because they were indeed some
We can compare the sidewalk example to the rootkits if you like, or the misleading marketting for PSP, or the illegal collection of information from minors on the internet, or the judge's comments about Sony paying someone for his testimony in court.
I agree that just because someone wins money in court does not mean they were right. If you review these cases, however, I think you'll see that the cash penalty wasn't the most compelling part of the argument. I'm just saying that an 18.5 million dollar fine does not appear trivial.
Also, I just post here as a hobby. Believe me, I spend a lot more time and energy addressing some of the other issues you mention. This is me taking a break lol.
I appreciate your arguments too, they're very intelligent and logically presented, even though I disagree--with respect.
P.S. One final thought for the night, well more of a question really. If Sony wants to seperate itself from the tarnished reputation of some of its subsidiaries, is it taking steps to ensure that there is appropriate management restructuring where it's needed? Are the decision makers responsible for ethical problems subject to any investigation and/or disciplinary action? If so, I think this would build some trust. Just my opinion.
A woman successfully sued macdonalds because she burnt herself on a cup of coffee that she placed between her legs cause she was in a wheelchair. She sued them on the basis that they did not warn her that the coffee in the cup was hot. Hence the evil macdonalds causes bodily harm and is unethical based on this case..
Loved this thread by the way want to see more made me wonder what you were doing this weekend .. Now I know
p.s. I hate macdonalds because their food is worse then horrible however I don't see that they should come under fire as a corporation for reasons like this, but yet they do.. sounds familiar..
Do you really think that paying off a witness in court, violating children's rights, paying off radio stations to manipulate ratings, planting rootkits, and having Sony advertisers pretend to be something they are not for movies and PSPs are the same as spilled coffee? I'm confident that most readers will be able to put these things into perspective.
lessee rootkits was an attempt to prevent music from being copied and resold or handed out free to others. It was an attempt to protect the recording artists copyrights (bunch of people got pissed off bad sony). Child rights violations and paying off a witness belongs in national enquirer if it really did happen is debatable and just "hot gossip". Not sure about "pretending to be something they are not for movies" but anyhow yeah some of it is obviously fiction other is just the consumer industry not liking certain methods adopted to prevent what basically was considered theft and widespread. It was however something for people to grab hold of as a competitor and use to increase their sales or in your case continue to hate them some more.
Oddly enough none of this has to do with sony online entertainment these are other companies under the sony umbrella. As an aside I dont particularly like sony but they make some good TV sets and some games I like. They are a major power in certain industries if you can manage to avoid their parts (probably some in your computer) and every thing else with a sony name on it I would be amazed. Do I like everything they do? No but I dont beat them over the head with it I take note and dont buy their cd's, but that is about all I can do and even then I can't totally avoid it in the end.
A guy got mad at me because at one point I wore rebooks. I wore them for years and years as I have knee problems and this brand was recommended by an orthopedics specialist. Should I have caused myself great pain because of their involvment with south africa?
My internet company which has a basic monopoly on my cable based broad band internet (rogers the guys with the ipod problems awhile back).
Bottom line archangel there is a lot of strange things happening in the world .Should I stop watching TV,using the internet or doing anything online because my alternatives are no better? Should I take more anti-inflamatories and wear a brand which causes me great pain?
Feel free to speak up about them but also realize that apart from being mildly annoyed over rootkits I still have my sony TV set and I'm pretty sure the dvd rom inside my computer is sony's and yes I use some of their software games, I still use rogers's cable and if I had not found a brand better then rebook in more recent times (Avia) I would still be wearing Reebok running shoes.
Do I excuse it? No but a lot of it is just noise created by the comptetition trying to boost their sales.
I would say I have very good perspective and dont live in a blind rage over things that are half media hype created by other corporations to try to fool consumers into switching brands.
I think sony can do plenty wrong and HAS done plenty wrong, but I know of no company out there that has done nothing wrong hence when I see a product I want that has a sony name on it I will buy it as in some cases it offers the best quality in whatever industry its a part of. They dominate the blue ray market and blue ray is on the rise. If it eventually becomes and industry norm I won't be stopping to watch movies because of the fact that sony owns the rights to blue ray.
Personally when I see you hating on one company on mmorpg.com and not others I consider its you that has lost perspective and not the other way round.
edit sorry for chopped up sentances. I dont have time to fix it and have to get back to work. This note was inserted for those with sensitive eyes who can't recognize a post written in a hurry on a coffee break :O
Yup. Everybody is doing it. It's SONY, not SOE. All irrelevant arguments.
This is a Star Wars Galaxies Veterans refuge. The only companies worth discussing here are SONY and LEC (maybe Bioware if we choose to compare SWTOR with SWG and so on).
The sad, shabby tactics of the SONY apologists are amusing to say the least. It certainly leads one to question their motives.
actually i was commenting on mmorpg.com the entire site not just the veterans refuse and I actually am not a sony fan in that I dont like everything they do. I like your lack of direction in your post though. Nice deflected backhand twirl and I give it only a 7 out of 10 because its blatantly transparent. His post has absolutely nothing to do about SWG either yet its in the veterans refuge for the game SWG it has to do with sony corporation which is more then just games so the entier post is off topic if you want to get right down to it.
My answer was relevant and dead on. He has lost perspective as he does not give the same attention to the other major corps or companies on this site as he gives sony. I mean why is he not on darkfalls forum screaming at them about their rootkits and copying and pasting media hype? Why is he not on the forums for EA games screaming about all that they have done which also includes root kits, tcgs and much else?
I know why , but do you? If you want to come down on one company for certain practices and basically say "dont buy their stuff" which is what this op is intending you have to be fair and spread the H8 around otherwise it looks like what it is. A crusade against a single company for doing exactly what others are doing in fact some have been doing them for longer then sony.
I make no apologies for sony. They are what they are a massive corporation that screws up with great regularity however they still offer services and products I want and since no other company is any better the "perspective" issue is jsut that. I have perspective and see more then just one tiny piece of the issue here. I can't say the same for the OP though who does not exist to comment on games period he exists on these forums and on mmorpg.com to bash a company and has absolutely nothing to say about the game itself. He is what he is "a man on a mission". However since at one point he claimed to like to comment on games I would say this post is way off the mark. Heck he doesn't even talk about SWG in this post. His gloves have finaly come off with this post which put a very large smile on my face. He is a lobbyist and by the looks of it a full time one. Thing is lobbyists often loose perspective and eventualy stop listening to those they are supposedly lobbying to help. At that point they then become more of a liability then anything. As their viewpoints are no longer balanced or in this case of this thread logical lol.
what is your motivation for coming here and saying all this?
In his post he is talking about SONY -- the company that created the destroyed SWG, It is very relevant. YOU chose to deflect that by bringing up sneakers and south africa. Why are you doing this?
If you make no apologies for SONY, why come here and defend them by saying "everybody does it?"
If youa re not defending them, why even say such a thing?
If he is a lobbyist, for whom do you think he is a lobbyist?
When has anyone ever insisted that SONY can do no wrong?
There we go. A reasonable retort to the OP. I believe taht's the first in this thread. Bravo.
I also have never said SOE could do no wrong and the OP quotes me as the reason for this post. Some suggest I say that, which is wrong. I have only said SOE is an ethical company not a perfect company. I have also said many time that the positive things I have experienced from SONY/SOE are far more then the bad and that is why I stay a customer not because SOE is perfect.
[You said this in another thread]
SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior.
This is a common theme from you and most likely the reason the original posters points to you for the reason of this thread (I missed that part to be honest). Maybe you do not see the impact of what you say, how you say it or it is something else, but you do often make comments like this.
More often than not you choose not to see the wrong in soes actions. You do make up excuses and justifications for their actions in an attempt to make them seem plausible and even justifiable.
Sure every company makes mistakes and even screws up and even soe does some really cool things, but it is pretty obvious that soe has a long history of these types of actions.
When has anyone ever insisted that SONY can do no wrong?
There we go. A reasonable retort to the OP. I believe taht's the first in this thread. Bravo.
I also have never said SOE could do no wrong and the OP quotes me as the reason for this post. Some suggest I say that, which is wrong. I have only said SOE is an ethical company not a perfect company. I have also said many time that the positive things I have experienced from SONY/SOE are far more then the bad and that is why I stay a customer not because SOE is perfect.
[You said this in another thread]
SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior.
This is a common theme from you and most likely the reason the original posters points to you for the reason of this thread (I missed that part to be honest). Maybe you do not see the impact of what you say, how you say it or it is something else, but you do often make comments like this.
More often than not you choose not to see the wrong in soes actions. You do make up excuses and justifications for their actions in an attempt to make them seem plausible and even justifiable.
Sure every company makes mistakes and even screws up and even soe does some really cool things, but it is pretty obvious that soe has a long history of these types of actions.
You are right I did say I do not see unethical behavior. You did not have to go to another thread to get that I said it HERE. They have done things I disagree with that is not unethical. I know you disagree! How could you have missed it you have quoted the same paragraph. You are right I do not see the impact of what I write here. I just figure this is a simple mmo site for talking about games so why would anyone be impacted by anything I say. Especially someone like me as you have point out over and over writes misleading stuff that I do not even understand. I have suggested before just ignore me but I can see that is impossible. I will never comment on this issue again not becasuse you are right I simply do not care anymore. I am having fun in EQ2 and Free Realms.
You are the ones who keeps quoting me as if my opinion matters. I like SOE they are a legitimate legal company producing products I like and enjoy. I could careless what your feelings are on SOE ethics. Like I said the only reason I ever rang in or discussed this issue is "haters" keep coming to SOE game forums in threads that have nothing to do with ethic and put people down who enjoy SOE games. When we are talking about the game play of free realms no one cares about how you feel SOE done you wrong. The only reason I rang in here is I was quoted again. You say I am so wrong and write in a misleading way yet you simply can not bring yourself to ignore me. It is not hard I will show you how it is done. Have a nice day and have fun discussing the evil unethical SOE you are very good at that. Quote me all you like the "haters" can hyjack as many threads as they like I am done. You want to talk about game play, graphics, etc etc you know where to find me.
Now I am an apologist? Lets see on these forums I have been called: an idiot, an apologist, unethical, SOE employee, Viral marketer for SOE, and recently it was suggested I am Smedely himself. The difference between me and the "haters"is I am not obsessed with SOE. SOE means no more to me then Blizzard, Mythic, EA, Turbine, or any other game company. I post on many topics and many games but EQ2 is my favorite game. However, many here have quoted me out of context and suggested I am some sort of SOE zombie because in my many years and hundreds of post a very small amount have been in support of SOE games. I find it funny the only things people attack me for is anything to do with EQ2 or SOE. Nothing I have said about any other game or company ever raises an eyebrow. They seem to over look threads and post I have made against things SOE has done. They simply do not like that I am still a SOE customer. To ArchAngel3 do you own one single item made by SONY? If you do then your opinion on SOE/SONY means precisely "dick" (Men in Black reference) The fact is this all began by me supporting and defending EQ2 as a good game. The SOE "hater" started attacking me and my unethical support of EQ2. I simply got tired of all the personnel attacks by the "haters" and I voiced this after threads I started to help people with EQ2 were hyjacked by "haters". I simply made a stance and have been attacked ever since when ever I post about EQ2 and the few times about SOE. Never any of my other posts. You can draw your own conclusions on why that is. By the way for those that do not know I am the guy who posted the response that got ArchAngel3 so worked up that he needed to start this thread.
Thank you for joining the discussion. It was indeed your comments that were what I would call the tipping point for this thread. I've quoted them now in the O.P. to provide context. This part in particular caught my attention:
"SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior."
(So to the poster that suggests no one actually said this and that I must have made it up, well lol, 'nuff said.)
You're not the only one to say this though Ecc. I've read numerous posts over the years extolling Sony's virtues and criticizing anyone who finds fault with their business practices. In fact, for posting this information here (which is all independently verifiable) along with my views, I've been called mentally ill, and now told that if I own anything made by Sony my opinion is null and void--pardon the paraphrase ^_^.
I'm simply providing information that I think effectively refutes the blanket statement that Sony is ethical and there is no evidence of unethical behaviour. Perhaps you were truly unaware of this information when you made your statements. Perhaps now you could say, "I have seen evidence of unethical behaviour." If so, that would be great. Life is a learning journey after all.
As for owning anything made by Sony, the last major purchase I made from them was my beloved PS2, and I've often wondered what happened to the company that made it.
Now I am an apologist? Lets see on these forums I have been called: an idiot, an apologist, unethical, SOE employee, Viral marketer for SOE, and recently it was suggested I am Smedely himself. The difference between me and the "haters"is I am not obsessed with SOE. SOE means no more to me then Blizzard, Mythic, EA, Turbine, or any other game company. I post on many topics and many games but EQ2 is my favorite game. However, many here have quoted me out of context and suggested I am some sort of SOE zombie because in my many years and hundreds of post a very small amount have been in support of SOE games. I find it funny the only things people attack me for is anything to do with EQ2 or SOE. Nothing I have said about any other game or company ever raises an eyebrow. They seem to over look threads and post I have made against things SOE has done. They simply do not like that I am still a SOE customer. To ArchAngel3 do you own one single item made by SONY? If you do then your opinion on SOE/SONY means precisely "dick" (Men in Black reference) The fact is this all began by me supporting and defending EQ2 as a good game. The SOE "hater" started attacking me and my unethical support of EQ2. I simply got tired of all the personnel attacks by the "haters" and I voiced this after threads I started to help people with EQ2 were hyjacked by "haters". I simply made a stance and have been attacked ever since when ever I post about EQ2 and the few times about SOE. Never any of my other posts. You can draw your own conclusions on why that is. By the way for those that do not know I am the guy who posted the response that got ArchAngel3 so worked up that he needed to start this thread.
Thank you for joining the discussion. It was indeed your comments that were what I would call the tipping point for this thread. I've quoted them now in the O.P. to provide context. This part in particular caught my attention:
"SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior."
(So to the poster that suggests no one actually said this and that I must have made it up, well lol, 'nuff said.)
You're not the only one to say this though Ecc. I've read numerous posts over the years extolling Sony's virtues and criticizing anyone who finds fault with their business practices. In fact, for posting this information here (which is all independently verifiable) along with my views, I've been called mentally ill, and now told that if I own anything made by Sony my opinion is null and void--pardon the paraphrase ^_^.
I'm simply providing information that I think effectively refutes the blanket statement that Sony is ethical and there is no evidence of unethical behaviour. Perhaps you were truly unaware of this information when you made your statements. Perhaps now you could say, "I have seen evidence of unethical behaviour." If so, that would be great. Life is a learning journey after all.
As for owning anything made by Sony, the last major purchase I made from them was my beloved PS2, and I've often wondered what happened to the company that made it.
by quoting the guy your basically carrying a discussion from another forum to this one. It was not that appropriate where it was on free realms but its even less appropriate now.
In short if you wonder why the natives are so restless the words "not cool" are on top of my head. Its not sufficient you trolled a the free realm forum and bothered this guy there with this nonsense. You then started a thread elsewhere.quoted him and continued it on basically you called an individual out.
Its an entirely inappropriate thread and the motivation behind it even more inappropriate. Not only is it totally off topic and not about gaming at all your singling out an individual for his statements in such a way as well it got well noticed.
So on a serious note yup Not cool archangel not cool at all. Statements people make bother you so much that you must start spin off threads to clarify your position. Its not the first time its happened and I"m sure it wont be the last. It is however over the top and rather inappropriate.
Had the thread title not been so obviously bait and the guy quoted at the bottom of theoriginal not been quoted then it would not have become what it is. Obvious flamebait for the purpose of trolling an individual for his views.
With a different title and leaving out his quote it would have gotten an entirely different response. I sure as heck would not have bothered but it is what it is. In poor taste and very very "not cool"
Originally posted by eccoton They have done things I disagree with that is not unethical. I know you disagree!
Once again, this isn't a matter of opinions. It doesn't matter if we agree with their actions or not. Unless we can find some evidence of lieing and making false promises falling into ethical behavior of business we are not talking about something that is an opinions. There are laws and rules against this sort of behavior and strangely enough they are usually called something similar to code of ethics that detail lies and false promises as being unethical.
We can have opinions about how ethical or unethical soe is overall, how much impact those actions may had, if those actions are enough to worry about and things of that nature. All of those are opinions and subjective.
What we cannot do is say something is ethical by rationalizing it through comparisons or other non relevent issues. It doesn't matter if we agree or disagree with the whats and whys of those actions when the basic principles of those actions are unethical.
I understand soe gets a lot of flack in many threads and it gets irritating, but you have to understand that it is happening for a reason even if you don't see or agree with those reasons. That is not a justification mind you, just acknowledging what is happening and why it is happening. If people didn't feel so betrayed then it wouldn't be much of an issue I guess.
Yet at the same time the supporters on the complete opposite side of the extreme do the same thing. There is always some rationization about "oh every company lies to their customers" or "Its ok to break promises, because I like the changes and don't care if people quit over this". This is at least as bad as the hate that gets spewed, but at least the negative acknowledges a pattern of behavior in the company where as comments like "soe has never done anything unethical" are at best very misleading to someone who may not have had any exposure to soe and their brand of customer relations.
Now I am an apologist? Lets see on these forums I have been called: an idiot, an apologist, unethical, SOE employee, Viral marketer for SOE, and recently it was suggested I am Smedely himself. The difference between me and the "haters"is I am not obsessed with SOE. SOE means no more to me then Blizzard, Mythic, EA, Turbine, or any other game company. I post on many topics and many games but EQ2 is my favorite game. However, many here have quoted me out of context and suggested I am some sort of SOE zombie because in my many years and hundreds of post a very small amount have been in support of SOE games. I find it funny the only things people attack me for is anything to do with EQ2 or SOE. Nothing I have said about any other game or company ever raises an eyebrow. They seem to over look threads and post I have made against things SOE has done. They simply do not like that I am still a SOE customer. To ArchAngel3 do you own one single item made by SONY? If you do then your opinion on SOE/SONY means precisely "dick" (Men in Black reference) The fact is this all began by me supporting and defending EQ2 as a good game. The SOE "hater" started attacking me and my unethical support of EQ2. I simply got tired of all the personnel attacks by the "haters" and I voiced this after threads I started to help people with EQ2 were hyjacked by "haters". I simply made a stance and have been attacked ever since when ever I post about EQ2 and the few times about SOE. Never any of my other posts. You can draw your own conclusions on why that is. By the way for those that do not know I am the guy who posted the response that got ArchAngel3 so worked up that he needed to start this thread.
Thank you for joining the discussion. It was indeed your comments that were what I would call the tipping point for this thread. I've quoted them now in the O.P. to provide context. This part in particular caught my attention:
"SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior."
(So to the poster that suggests no one actually said this and that I must have made it up, well lol, 'nuff said.)
You're not the only one to say this though Ecc. I've read numerous posts over the years extolling Sony's virtues and criticizing anyone who finds fault with their business practices. In fact, for posting this information here (which is all independently verifiable) along with my views, I've been called mentally ill, and now told that if I own anything made by Sony my opinion is null and void--pardon the paraphrase ^_^.
I'm simply providing information that I think effectively refutes the blanket statement that Sony is ethical and there is no evidence of unethical behaviour. Perhaps you were truly unaware of this information when you made your statements. Perhaps now you could say, "I have seen evidence of unethical behaviour." If so, that would be great. Life is a learning journey after all.
As for owning anything made by Sony, the last major purchase I made from them was my beloved PS2, and I've often wondered what happened to the company that made it.
by quoting the guy your basically carrying a discussion from another forum to this one. It was not that appropriate where it was on free realms but its even less appropriate now.
In short if you wonder why the natives are so restless the words "not cool" are on top of my head. Its not sufficient you trolled a the free realm forum and bothered this guy here with this nonsense. You then started a thread elsewhere.quoted him and continued it on basically you called an individual out.
Its an entirely inappropriate thread and the motivation behind it even more inappropriate. Not only is it totally off topic and not about gaming at all your singling out an individual for his statements in such a way as well it got well noticed.
So on a serious note yup Not cool archangel not cool at all. Statements people make bother you so much that you must start spin off threads to clarify your position. Its not the first time its happened and I"m sure it wont be the last. It is however over the top and rather inappropriate.
Had the thread title not been so obviously bait and the guy quoted at the bottom of the thread not been quoted then it would not have become what it is. Obvious flamebait for the purpose of trolling an individual for his views.
With a different title and leaving out his quote it would have gotten an entirely different response. I sure as heck would not have bothered but it is what it is. In poor taste and very very "not cool"
The original comments suggested that it is only whining SWG veterans that would criticize the ethics of SOE and Sony. I felt that this was the appropriate forum to address these comments, and I still do. Also, this has been a theme on this forum dating back to around Nov. 2005; this is just the most blatant example of it that I've seen to date.
The original comments implicate SWG veterans, so it is in the SWG veteran forum that I chose to discuss them. You may think that responding to comments about SWG veterans in the SWG veteran forum is uncool and inappropriate, or you may just desperately want this conversation to end. Sometimes when people can't refute a point of view, they simply try to make the conversation go away. Either way, I think other readers can make the connection between the comments, my response and their placement on this board.
I also think your accusation of flame-bait is incorrect. I'm not flaming anyone, or inciting anyone to flame people. I'm responding to a theme that has occured a number of times over the years, and that has been echoed once again more recently. I'm providing information that I think effectively refutes this theme, and I believe I'm doing it respectfully.
Now I am an apologist? Lets see on these forums I have been called: an idiot, an apologist, unethical, SOE employee, Viral marketer for SOE, and recently it was suggested I am Smedely himself. The difference between me and the "haters"is I am not obsessed with SOE. SOE means no more to me then Blizzard, Mythic, EA, Turbine, or any other game company. I post on many topics and many games but EQ2 is my favorite game. However, many here have quoted me out of context and suggested I am some sort of SOE zombie because in my many years and hundreds of post a very small amount have been in support of SOE games. I find it funny the only things people attack me for is anything to do with EQ2 or SOE. Nothing I have said about any other game or company ever raises an eyebrow. They seem to over look threads and post I have made against things SOE has done. They simply do not like that I am still a SOE customer. To ArchAngel3 do you own one single item made by SONY? If you do then your opinion on SOE/SONY means precisely "dick" (Men in Black reference) The fact is this all began by me supporting and defending EQ2 as a good game. The SOE "hater" started attacking me and my unethical support of EQ2. I simply got tired of all the personnel attacks by the "haters" and I voiced this after threads I started to help people with EQ2 were hyjacked by "haters". I simply made a stance and have been attacked ever since when ever I post about EQ2 and the few times about SOE. Never any of my other posts. You can draw your own conclusions on why that is. By the way for those that do not know I am the guy who posted the response that got ArchAngel3 so worked up that he needed to start this thread.
Thank you for joining the discussion. It was indeed your comments that were what I would call the tipping point for this thread. I've quoted them now in the O.P. to provide context. This part in particular caught my attention:
"SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior."
(So to the poster that suggests no one actually said this and that I must have made it up, well lol, 'nuff said.)
You're not the only one to say this though Ecc. I've read numerous posts over the years extolling Sony's virtues and criticizing anyone who finds fault with their business practices. In fact, for posting this information here (which is all independently verifiable) along with my views, I've been called mentally ill, and now told that if I own anything made by Sony my opinion is null and void--pardon the paraphrase ^_^.
I'm simply providing information that I think effectively refutes the blanket statement that Sony is ethical and there is no evidence of unethical behaviour. Perhaps you were truly unaware of this information when you made your statements. Perhaps now you could say, "I have seen evidence of unethical behaviour." If so, that would be great. Life is a learning journey after all.
As for owning anything made by Sony, the last major purchase I made from them was my beloved PS2, and I've often wondered what happened to the company that made it.
by quoting the guy your basically carrying a discussion from another forum to this one. It was not that appropriate where it was on free realms but its even less appropriate now.
In short if you wonder why the natives are so restless the words "not cool" are on top of my head. Its not sufficient you trolled a the free realm forum and bothered this guy here with this nonsense. You then started a thread elsewhere.quoted him and continued it on basically you called an individual out.
Its an entirely inappropriate thread and the motivation behind it even more inappropriate. Not only is it totally off topic and not about gaming at all your singling out an individual for his statements in such a way as well it got well noticed.
So on a serious note yup Not cool archangel not cool at all. Statements people make bother you so much that you must start spin off threads to clarify your position. Its not the first time its happened and I"m sure it wont be the last. It is however over the top and rather inappropriate.
Had the thread title not been so obviously bait and the guy quoted at the bottom of the thread not been quoted then it would not have become what it is. Obvious flamebait for the purpose of trolling an individual for his views.
With a different title and leaving out his quote it would have gotten an entirely different response. I sure as heck would not have bothered but it is what it is. In poor taste and very very "not cool"
The original comments suggested that it is only whining SWG veterans that would criticize the ethics of SOE and Sony. I felt that this was the appropriate forum to address these comments, and I still do. Also, this has been a theme on this forum dating back to around Nov. 2005; this is just the most blatant example of it that I've seen to date.
The original comments implicate SWG veterans, so it is in the SWG veteran forum that I chose to discuss them. You may think that responding to comments about SWG veterans in the SWG veteran forum is uncool and inappropriate, or you may just desperately want this conversation to end. Sometimes when people can't refute a point of view, they simply try to make the conversation go away. Either way, I think other readers can make the connection between the comments, my response and their placement on this board.
I also think your accusation of flame-bait is incorrect. I'm not flaming anyone, or inciting anyone to flame people. I'm responding to a theme that has occured a number of times over the years, and that has been echoed once again more recently. I'm providing information that I think effectively refutes this theme, and I believe I'm doing it respectfully.
you were on a forum criticising a game that you have neither player nor seen and spewing soe "lies" propoganda which was totally totallly inappropriate. It was trolling in its purest form. He said something about it and then you moved it here and continued it. You know why you have the rep that you have? Its because you were trolling for the sole of getting the message across that sony is unethical and lying and you had no interest in the game while there absolutely none. Then you moved it here. Had you not been there in the first place and trolling a forum for no other reason then to criticise the publishers for something in the past (again) he would not have said what he said and this thread would not exist. I personally would not be so bold to do what you do and so now you have to realize that you are labelled as you are and for good reason. You have gone above and beyond that scope and taken it a step further even and created this spin off thread instead of letting it be which would have been the smart thing.
Now it looks like you not him, but then again you were on a forum for a game you have not seen simply posting the routine list of soe lies for appriate coverage for your cause. Dont troll gaming forums like that and you wont get spoken to in such a manner. This is afterall a site about gaming and you are basically putting a person into a position where if he says nothing there is a problem so yes you called him out and weakend the "cause" further. Its become personal now and you made it personal by quoting him and carrying the topic to a second forum. Again not cool /shrug
Now I am an apologist? Lets see on these forums I have been called: an idiot, an apologist, unethical, SOE employee, Viral marketer for SOE, and recently it was suggested I am Smedely himself. The difference between me and the "haters"is I am not obsessed with SOE. SOE means no more to me then Blizzard, Mythic, EA, Turbine, or any other game company. I post on many topics and many games but EQ2 is my favorite game. However, many here have quoted me out of context and suggested I am some sort of SOE zombie because in my many years and hundreds of post a very small amount have been in support of SOE games. I find it funny the only things people attack me for is anything to do with EQ2 or SOE. Nothing I have said about any other game or company ever raises an eyebrow. They seem to over look threads and post I have made against things SOE has done. They simply do not like that I am still a SOE customer. To ArchAngel3 do you own one single item made by SONY? If you do then your opinion on SOE/SONY means precisely "dick" (Men in Black reference) The fact is this all began by me supporting and defending EQ2 as a good game. The SOE "hater" started attacking me and my unethical support of EQ2. I simply got tired of all the personnel attacks by the "haters" and I voiced this after threads I started to help people with EQ2 were hyjacked by "haters". I simply made a stance and have been attacked ever since when ever I post about EQ2 and the few times about SOE. Never any of my other posts. You can draw your own conclusions on why that is. By the way for those that do not know I am the guy who posted the response that got ArchAngel3 so worked up that he needed to start this thread.
Thank you for joining the discussion. It was indeed your comments that were what I would call the tipping point for this thread. I've quoted them now in the O.P. to provide context. This part in particular caught my attention:
"SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior."
(So to the poster that suggests no one actually said this and that I must have made it up, well lol, 'nuff said.)
You're not the only one to say this though Ecc. I've read numerous posts over the years extolling Sony's virtues and criticizing anyone who finds fault with their business practices. In fact, for posting this information here (which is all independently verifiable) along with my views, I've been called mentally ill, and now told that if I own anything made by Sony my opinion is null and void--pardon the paraphrase ^_^.
I'm simply providing information that I think effectively refutes the blanket statement that Sony is ethical and there is no evidence of unethical behaviour. Perhaps you were truly unaware of this information when you made your statements. Perhaps now you could say, "I have seen evidence of unethical behaviour." If so, that would be great. Life is a learning journey after all.
As for owning anything made by Sony, the last major purchase I made from them was my beloved PS2, and I've often wondered what happened to the company that made it.
by quoting the guy your basically carrying a discussion from another forum to this one. It was not that appropriate where it was on free realms but its even less appropriate now.
In short if you wonder why the natives are so restless the words "not cool" are on top of my head. Its not sufficient you trolled a the free realm forum and bothered this guy here with this nonsense. You then started a thread elsewhere.quoted him and continued it on basically you called an individual out.
Its an entirely inappropriate thread and the motivation behind it even more inappropriate. Not only is it totally off topic and not about gaming at all your singling out an individual for his statements in such a way as well it got well noticed.
So on a serious note yup Not cool archangel not cool at all. Statements people make bother you so much that you must start spin off threads to clarify your position. Its not the first time its happened and I"m sure it wont be the last. It is however over the top and rather inappropriate.
Had the thread title not been so obviously bait and the guy quoted at the bottom of the thread not been quoted then it would not have become what it is. Obvious flamebait for the purpose of trolling an individual for his views.
With a different title and leaving out his quote it would have gotten an entirely different response. I sure as heck would not have bothered but it is what it is. In poor taste and very very "not cool"
The original comments suggested that it is only whining SWG veterans that would criticize the ethics of SOE and Sony. I felt that this was the appropriate forum to address these comments, and I still do. Also, this has been a theme on this forum dating back to around Nov. 2005; this is just the most blatant example of it that I've seen to date.
The original comments implicate SWG veterans, so it is in the SWG veteran forum that I chose to discuss them. You may think that responding to comments about SWG veterans in the SWG veteran forum is uncool and inappropriate, or you may just desperately want this conversation to end. Sometimes when people can't refute a point of view, they simply try to make the conversation go away. Either way, I think other readers can make the connection between the comments, my response and their placement on this board.
I also think your accusation of flame-bait is incorrect. I'm not flaming anyone, or inciting anyone to flame people. I'm responding to a theme that has occured a number of times over the years, and that has been echoed once again more recently. I'm providing information that I think effectively refutes this theme, and I believe I'm doing it respectfully.
you were on a forum criticising a game that you have neither player nor seen and spewing soe "lies" propoganda which was totally totallly inappropriate. It was trolling in its purest form. He said something about it and then you moved it here and continued it. You know why you have the rep that you have? Its because you were trolling for the sole of getting the message across that sony is unethical and lying and you had no interest in the game while there absolutely none. Then you moved it here. Had you not been there in the first place and trolling a forum for no other reason then to criticise the publishers for something in the past (again) he would not have said what he said and this thread would not exist. I personally would not be so bold to do what you do and so now you have to realize that you are labelled as you are and for good reason. You have gone above and beyond that scope and taken it a step further even and created this spin off thread instead of letting it be which would have been the smart thing.
Now it looks like you not him, but then again you were on a forum for a game you have not seen simply posting the routine list of soe lies for appriate coverage for your cause. Dont troll gaming forums like that and you wont get spoken to in such a manner. This is afterall a site about gaming and you are basically putting a person into a position where if he says nothing there is a problem so yes you called him out and weakend the "cause" further. Its become personal now and you made it personal by quoting him and carrying the topic to a second forum. Again not cool /shrug
You are free to prove he lied about SOE...but I doubt we will see that from you.
You are free to prove he lied about SOE...but I doubt we will see that from you. This is the appropriate forum for the discussion.
Actually he is the one making the accusations the burden of proof is on his side not on mine. I have not said either he lied about or soe lied period. So yeah redirecting the thread back to where it belongs with the guy doing the actual accusing. About all that anyone has been able to prove is that SOE screwed up or changed its mind but no one has proven that there was willful deciet involved and these are different things.
lol your welcome. I have been watching two particular posters follow you around for awhile now. For some reason today I felt like saying something.. (probably because i have never seen you post on this particular subforum )
Now I am an apologist? Lets see on these forums I have been called: an idiot, an apologist, unethical, SOE employee, Viral marketer for SOE, and recently it was suggested I am Smedely himself. The difference between me and the "haters"is I am not obsessed with SOE. SOE means no more to me then Blizzard, Mythic, EA, Turbine, or any other game company. I post on many topics and many games but EQ2 is my favorite game. However, many here have quoted me out of context and suggested I am some sort of SOE zombie because in my many years and hundreds of post a very small amount have been in support of SOE games. I find it funny the only things people attack me for is anything to do with EQ2 or SOE. Nothing I have said about any other game or company ever raises an eyebrow. They seem to over look threads and post I have made against things SOE has done. They simply do not like that I am still a SOE customer. To ArchAngel3 do you own one single item made by SONY? If you do then your opinion on SOE/SONY means precisely "dick" (Men in Black reference) The fact is this all began by me supporting and defending EQ2 as a good game. The SOE "hater" started attacking me and my unethical support of EQ2. I simply got tired of all the personnel attacks by the "haters" and I voiced this after threads I started to help people with EQ2 were hyjacked by "haters". I simply made a stance and have been attacked ever since when ever I post about EQ2 and the few times about SOE. Never any of my other posts. You can draw your own conclusions on why that is. By the way for those that do not know I am the guy who posted the response that got ArchAngel3 so worked up that he needed to start this thread.
Thank you for joining the discussion. It was indeed your comments that were what I would call the tipping point for this thread. I've quoted them now in the O.P. to provide context. This part in particular caught my attention:
"SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior."
(So to the poster that suggests no one actually said this and that I must have made it up, well lol, 'nuff said.)
You're not the only one to say this though Ecc. I've read numerous posts over the years extolling Sony's virtues and criticizing anyone who finds fault with their business practices. In fact, for posting this information here (which is all independently verifiable) along with my views, I've been called mentally ill, and now told that if I own anything made by Sony my opinion is null and void--pardon the paraphrase ^_^.
I'm simply providing information that I think effectively refutes the blanket statement that Sony is ethical and there is no evidence of unethical behaviour. Perhaps you were truly unaware of this information when you made your statements. Perhaps now you could say, "I have seen evidence of unethical behaviour." If so, that would be great. Life is a learning journey after all.
As for owning anything made by Sony, the last major purchase I made from them was my beloved PS2, and I've often wondered what happened to the company that made it.
by quoting the guy your basically carrying a discussion from another forum to this one. It was not that appropriate where it was on free realms but its even less appropriate now.
In short if you wonder why the natives are so restless the words "not cool" are on top of my head. Its not sufficient you trolled a the free realm forum and bothered this guy here with this nonsense. You then started a thread elsewhere.quoted him and continued it on basically you called an individual out.
Its an entirely inappropriate thread and the motivation behind it even more inappropriate. Not only is it totally off topic and not about gaming at all your singling out an individual for his statements in such a way as well it got well noticed.
So on a serious note yup Not cool archangel not cool at all. Statements people make bother you so much that you must start spin off threads to clarify your position. Its not the first time its happened and I"m sure it wont be the last. It is however over the top and rather inappropriate.
Had the thread title not been so obviously bait and the guy quoted at the bottom of the thread not been quoted then it would not have become what it is. Obvious flamebait for the purpose of trolling an individual for his views.
With a different title and leaving out his quote it would have gotten an entirely different response. I sure as heck would not have bothered but it is what it is. In poor taste and very very "not cool"
The original comments suggested that it is only whining SWG veterans that would criticize the ethics of SOE and Sony. I felt that this was the appropriate forum to address these comments, and I still do. Also, this has been a theme on this forum dating back to around Nov. 2005; this is just the most blatant example of it that I've seen to date.
The original comments implicate SWG veterans, so it is in the SWG veteran forum that I chose to discuss them. You may think that responding to comments about SWG veterans in the SWG veteran forum is uncool and inappropriate, or you may just desperately want this conversation to end. Sometimes when people can't refute a point of view, they simply try to make the conversation go away. Either way, I think other readers can make the connection between the comments, my response and their placement on this board.
I also think your accusation of flame-bait is incorrect. I'm not flaming anyone, or inciting anyone to flame people. I'm responding to a theme that has occured a number of times over the years, and that has been echoed once again more recently. I'm providing information that I think effectively refutes this theme, and I believe I'm doing it respectfully.
you were on a forum criticising a game that you have neither player nor seen and spewing soe "lies" propoganda which was totally totallly inappropriate. It was trolling in its purest form. He said something about it and then you moved it here and continued it. You know why you have the rep that you have? Its because you were trolling for the sole of getting the message across that sony is unethical and lying and you had no interest in the game while there absolutely none. Then you moved it here. Had you not been there in the first place and trolling a forum for no other reason then to criticise the publishers for something in the past (again) he would not have said what he said and this thread would not exist. I personally would not be so bold to do what you do and so now you have to realize that you are labelled as you are and for good reason. You have gone above and beyond that scope and taken it a step further even and created this spin off thread instead of letting it be which would have been the smart thing.
Now it looks like you not him, but then again you were on a forum for a game you have not seen simply posting the routine list of soe lies for appriate coverage for your cause. Dont troll gaming forums like that and you wont get spoken to in such a manner. This is afterall a site about gaming and you are basically putting a person into a position where if he says nothing there is a problem so yes you called him out and weakend the "cause" further. Its become personal now and you made it personal by quoting him and carrying the topic to a second forum. Again not cool /shrug
Actually I wasn't trolling at all. You know how the most recent posts in the forums are available on the home page? They are there, I believe, to catch our attention. My attention was caught. I read the comments about SWG veterans along with denial of any wrong-doing on the part of Sony, and chose to discuss that in the SWG veteran forum.
Your accusation that I was trolling is not an accurate reflection of what happened. The post title was about SOE, and the author of the post was Daffid. I find his comments on SOE very insightful, so I chose to read them. This does not a troll make. I saw that there was discussion about whether or not "free-realms" is free. I responded to the term "free-realms" on that forum. Then I saw the comments that are specifically about SWG veterans, so I responded to those here. For me to begin a lengthy discussion about SWG veterans and their views in the other forum would have been inappropriate I think. So, comments on free realms are in the free realms forum--of course--and comments about SWG veterans and Sony's ethics in relation to us are available on this forum--of course. You can try to villify that all you like, but I still think you just want this conversation to end because you may not like the information it contains.
I wonder if it would be too much trouble instead to simply acknowledge that yes Sony has been at the centre of ethical controversy a number of times, and to suggest otherwise really isn't accurate. I also wonder if it wouldn't be too much trouble to simply admit that SWG veterans are not the only people who have had concerns with Sony's ethics.
Also, I'm very comfortable with the reputation I have on these boards. You're free to have whatever opinion of me that you like, and I'm aware that it's often unique.
P.S. In answer to a post made by Miagi earlier, I believe it would also be inaccurate to say that Sony can do nothing right. I haven't seen that stated overtly, but I have got that "drift" from some posts. I think it's more accurate to say that there have been a number of events that have raised ethical concerns with SOE, and Sony as a whole. That doesn't take away from the fact that my PS2 is still kicking after many years of overuse. The Sony brand name used to be synomous for quality imo; it would be nice to see that again, without all the apparent scandals.
You are free to prove he lied about SOE...but I doubt we will see that from you. This is the appropriate forum for the discussion.
Actually he is the one making the accusations the burden of proof is on his side not on mine. I have not said either he lied about or soe lied period. So yeah redirecting the thread back to where it belongs with the guy doing the actual accusing. About all that anyone has been able to prove is that SOE screwed up or changed its mind but no one has proven that there was willful deciet involved and these are different things.
You must be blind or perhaps just didn't read the thread because what I saw was arch citing examples...whereas you have not refuted one point other than to attack and redirect the discussion.
You ask for willfull deceit? Please check what Dan Rubenfield stated on his blog....even the redacted version. If that is not willfull than I am not sure what else would prove it.
Just wondering if you're aware that "apologist" is not an insult. You seemed to take offense at the term. It's meaning is as follows according to wikipedia: "Apologists are authors, writers, editors of scientific logs or academic journals, and leaders known for taking on the points in arguments, conflicts or positions that are either placed under popular scrutinies or viewed under persecutory examinations. The term comes from the Greek word apologia (απολογ?α), meaning a speaking in defense." I think that fits, but it's just my opinion.
Also, I'm wondering if you and others who have made similar claims over the years are able to acknowledge that Sony has some history of ethical controversy, and that SWG vets are not the only people to make their concerns known? If so, I would conclude that this has been a productive dialogue.
lol your welcome. I have been watching two particular posters follow you around for awhile now. For some reason today I felt like saying something.. (probably because i have never seen you post on this particular subforum )
Not sure I have posted in the refuge forum before. I was just suprised to see my post from another thread moved here. I was really mad about SWG's change to NGE, I quit about 2 hours after I logged in that day. So when that happened I simply left SWG. I never felt the need to tell others they were wrong for enjoying the NGE or that I needed to warn them about what SOE did. I feel people are free to what ever they want with their entertainment time and money. I also did not feel the need to post about SWG anymore since I no longer played it. SOE paid a small price from me, they lost my station pass subscription as a result and I went down to one subscription, that is to EQ2. In 4 years that would have been hundreds of additional dollars from me that SOE lost. Even though I was mad about SWG I let it go and am glad I did. I have had 4 great years in EQ2 with great people and hope to have a few more.
Who really cares and wtf does this have to do with SWG a game no one plays anymore??? Your nothing more that what was described in the end of your post a "HATER"
You and your brethren arnt very good at the radical conspiracy theory thing, how long have your ilk been trying to get SOE banned from existence and Warhammer shut down now? Perhaps you should try a new hobby? I know, how about acutally playing a game?
You are free to prove he lied about SOE...but I doubt we will see that from you. This is the appropriate forum for the discussion.
Actually he is the one making the accusations the burden of proof is on his side not on mine. I have not said either he lied about or soe lied period. So yeah redirecting the thread back to where it belongs with the guy doing the actual accusing. About all that anyone has been able to prove is that SOE screwed up or changed its mind but no one has proven that there was willful deciet involved and these are different things.
You must be blind or perhaps just didn't read the thread because what I saw was arch citing examples...whereas you have not refuted one point other than to attack and redirect the discussion.
You ask for willfull deceit? Please check what Dan Rubenfield stated on his blog....even the redacted version. If that is not willfull than I am not sure what else would prove it.
The news articles that I cited make reference to numerous findings of guilt regarding Sony on various issues. For SOE specifically, I highlighted not findings of guilt for criminal action, but rather allegations of bait and switch that led to an extensive refund campaign. I've also highlighted that the loot card tournaments that offer prizes for an entry fee fail legislative tests in certain jurisdictions, and therefore cannot be legally offered. Other consumer complaints about alleged unethical behaviour have been referenced. These are the opinions of the consumers.
If I've quoted something incorrectly regarding any of the guilt findings, fines, or lawsuits, please feel free to correct me. If I'm mistaken about the bait and switch allegations and the refunds, please correct me. If I'm mistaken about the legal restrictions on the loot tournaments, please correct me. If you don't agree with other consumers' opinions, you're free of course to disagree.
Comments
When you begin posts like this: [note this was posted to someone else in response to them calling soe unethical]
SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior.
You are in fact doing exactly what you criticize other people doing to you. It doesn't matter that people insult you with words and you choose to use emoticons in place of words, the effect is the same. You are calling someone nuts for stating their opinion. Yet when I point out that you do the same thing you rationalize and ignore it. However you want to slice it you engage in the same activities you feel you are persecuted by. As fisher pointed out above you bring some of that on yourself by interchanging facts and positions.
I have an issue with your misrepresenting facts as being opinions. You cannot simply take something that is a textbook example of unethical behavior and choose to treat it like an opinion and choose to see it as something else.
Saying it doesn't bother you, fine. Saying you enjoy other things fine. Overlook it fine. Saying it is ethical to lie and break promises, no. That is like pointing out that a ball is round and circular in every aspect, but refusing to acknowledge it is a sphere, because in your opinion it is a square. Opinions can be wrong when evidence proves them to be.
I doubt anyone has said that and I know I have never said that, but like sony everyone needs a hook lol. I mean it made people look. However as stated I myself found the OP to be entertaining in that it was this arms lenght list of things and some of which are occuring in other companies as well especially the root kits.
We are not however dealing with a forum or a group of people that see shades of grey. They only paint and see things one way and to them its either black or white. Unfortunately the real world is mostly shades of grey.
I doubt anyone has said that and I know I have never said that, but like sony everyone needs a hook lol. I mean it made people look. However as stated I myself found the OP to be entertaining in that it was this arms lenght list of things and some of which are occuring in other companies as well especially the root kits.
We are not however dealing with a forum or a group of people that see shades of grey. They only paint and see things one way and to them its either black or white. Unfortunately the real world is mostly shades of grey.
Would SONY be a dark charcoal grey or a pale, whitish grey to you? If most of the real world is shades of grey, what shade of grey is SONY?
Personally I feel the black/white grey argument is most often used to somehow justify "black" behavior (or of you prefer, dark, dusky grey behavior). It is intended to diffuse the argument a person is making.
At any rate, once again, "other people do it too" isn't a reasonable argument here. It lacks relevance in this discussion. This is an SWG refuge forum -- we aren't here to discuss the ethics of Nike or some other company.
fishermage.blogspot.com
The only thing I am defending is rational and logical thinking, something you havent shown us yet. "sony was fined 6 digits"...? Do you know how many companies are paying out money for lawsuits, mistakes or just out right stupidity? if you think Sony is the only one then you are sorely mistaken. Feel free to look up any lawsuits on the chain of companies that own blizzard for example.
Going back to "sony paying 6 digits".... Did you know some guy recently fell off his bike and blamed it on the sidewalk, which then ended up with him blaming the city. He was able to sue for 5 million dollars because he was a dumb ass and fell off his bike. He got away with it! Does that make the city wrong? Does it make them evil? Or does it mean some guy is taking advantage of the system. Sadly when someone sues a department of the city, and the city fronts the bill, it comes out of tax payer dollars. Its different with private companies and corporations...but guess what, the point remains the same. It doesnt make the city/corporation/company evil, bad, or wrong. In fact, in this case the guy was wrong, and used the system to get away with it.
Just like a burglar can use the system to sue the owner of a home that hes breaking into, because he hurt himself on the property.
Hey did you know PETA is filing charges because a game contains animals that can get killed. Did you know they can get away with it, claim its supporting animal cruelty, and get a nice paycheck if they win in court. People milk the loopholes in the system, and if you noticed they all claim its "ethical" bullshiet.
Im telling you, you dont have a valid case for your argument. All i see is typical Sony hate, like a liberal to hates conservatives for no reason other than thats what he identifies with himself as doing. It sounds like you rally under a "hate sony" banner, and no matter how illogical it is, you feel it must be your mission to make them look worse, since its some how a crusade. I just dont see the logic in this, especially when you see every single big company being the target for this kind of stuff. If you really feel pissed off, feel free to rage against the banking system thats destroying the worlds economy, the greedy corporations that are actually the CAUSE of real unethical practices and events... Trust me, your time would be better spend there than raging against Sony on a video game forum.
Just because a company is forced to pay a sum of money, either because they didnt want to deal with it and because it just wasnt worth fighting, or because they were indeed some
We can compare the sidewalk example to the rootkits if you like, or the misleading marketting for PSP, or the illegal collection of information from minors on the internet, or the judge's comments about Sony paying someone for his testimony in court.
I agree that just because someone wins money in court does not mean they were right. If you review these cases, however, I think you'll see that the cash penalty wasn't the most compelling part of the argument. I'm just saying that an 18.5 million dollar fine does not appear trivial.
Also, I just post here as a hobby. Believe me, I spend a lot more time and energy addressing some of the other issues you mention. This is me taking a break lol.
I appreciate your arguments too, they're very intelligent and logically presented, even though I disagree--with respect.
P.S. One final thought for the night, well more of a question really. If Sony wants to seperate itself from the tarnished reputation of some of its subsidiaries, is it taking steps to ensure that there is appropriate management restructuring where it's needed? Are the decision makers responsible for ethical problems subject to any investigation and/or disciplinary action? If so, I think this would build some trust. Just my opinion.
A woman successfully sued macdonalds because she burnt herself on a cup of coffee that she placed between her legs cause she was in a wheelchair. She sued them on the basis that they did not warn her that the coffee in the cup was hot. Hence the evil macdonalds causes bodily harm and is unethical based on this case..
Loved this thread by the way want to see more made me wonder what you were doing this weekend .. Now I know
p.s. I hate macdonalds because their food is worse then horrible however I don't see that they should come under fire as a corporation for reasons like this, but yet they do.. sounds familiar..
Do you really think that paying off a witness in court, violating children's rights, paying off radio stations to manipulate ratings, planting rootkits, and having Sony advertisers pretend to be something they are not for movies and PSPs are the same as spilled coffee? I'm confident that most readers will be able to put these things into perspective.
lessee rootkits was an attempt to prevent music from being copied and resold or handed out free to others. It was an attempt to protect the recording artists copyrights (bunch of people got pissed off bad sony). Child rights violations and paying off a witness belongs in national enquirer if it really did happen is debatable and just "hot gossip". Not sure about "pretending to be something they are not for movies" but anyhow yeah some of it is obviously fiction other is just the consumer industry not liking certain methods adopted to prevent what basically was considered theft and widespread. It was however something for people to grab hold of as a competitor and use to increase their sales or in your case continue to hate them some more.
Oddly enough none of this has to do with sony online entertainment these are other companies under the sony umbrella. As an aside I dont particularly like sony but they make some good TV sets and some games I like. They are a major power in certain industries if you can manage to avoid their parts (probably some in your computer) and every thing else with a sony name on it I would be amazed. Do I like everything they do? No but I dont beat them over the head with it I take note and dont buy their cd's, but that is about all I can do and even then I can't totally avoid it in the end.
A guy got mad at me because at one point I wore rebooks. I wore them for years and years as I have knee problems and this brand was recommended by an orthopedics specialist. Should I have caused myself great pain because of their involvment with south africa?
My internet company which has a basic monopoly on my cable based broad band internet (rogers the guys with the ipod problems awhile back).
Bottom line archangel there is a lot of strange things happening in the world .Should I stop watching TV,using the internet or doing anything online because my alternatives are no better? Should I take more anti-inflamatories and wear a brand which causes me great pain?
Feel free to speak up about them but also realize that apart from being mildly annoyed over rootkits I still have my sony TV set and I'm pretty sure the dvd rom inside my computer is sony's and yes I use some of their software games, I still use rogers's cable and if I had not found a brand better then rebook in more recent times (Avia) I would still be wearing Reebok running shoes.
Do I excuse it? No but a lot of it is just noise created by the comptetition trying to boost their sales.
I would say I have very good perspective and dont live in a blind rage over things that are half media hype created by other corporations to try to fool consumers into switching brands.
I think sony can do plenty wrong and HAS done plenty wrong, but I know of no company out there that has done nothing wrong hence when I see a product I want that has a sony name on it I will buy it as in some cases it offers the best quality in whatever industry its a part of. They dominate the blue ray market and blue ray is on the rise. If it eventually becomes and industry norm I won't be stopping to watch movies because of the fact that sony owns the rights to blue ray.
Personally when I see you hating on one company on mmorpg.com and not others I consider its you that has lost perspective and not the other way round.
edit sorry for chopped up sentances. I dont have time to fix it and have to get back to work. This note was inserted for those with sensitive eyes who can't recognize a post written in a hurry on a coffee break :O
Yup. Everybody is doing it. It's SONY, not SOE. All irrelevant arguments.
This is a Star Wars Galaxies Veterans refuge. The only companies worth discussing here are SONY and LEC (maybe Bioware if we choose to compare SWTOR with SWG and so on).
The sad, shabby tactics of the SONY apologists are amusing to say the least. It certainly leads one to question their motives.
actually i was commenting on mmorpg.com the entire site not just the veterans refuse and I actually am not a sony fan in that I dont like everything they do. I like your lack of direction in your post though. Nice deflected backhand twirl and I give it only a 7 out of 10 because its blatantly transparent. His post has absolutely nothing to do about SWG either yet its in the veterans refuge for the game SWG it has to do with sony corporation which is more then just games so the entier post is off topic if you want to get right down to it.
My answer was relevant and dead on. He has lost perspective as he does not give the same attention to the other major corps or companies on this site as he gives sony. I mean why is he not on darkfalls forum screaming at them about their rootkits and copying and pasting media hype? Why is he not on the forums for EA games screaming about all that they have done which also includes root kits, tcgs and much else?
I know why , but do you? If you want to come down on one company for certain practices and basically say "dont buy their stuff" which is what this op is intending you have to be fair and spread the H8 around otherwise it looks like what it is. A crusade against a single company for doing exactly what others are doing in fact some have been doing them for longer then sony.
I make no apologies for sony. They are what they are a massive corporation that screws up with great regularity however they still offer services and products I want and since no other company is any better the "perspective" issue is jsut that. I have perspective and see more then just one tiny piece of the issue here. I can't say the same for the OP though who does not exist to comment on games period he exists on these forums and on mmorpg.com to bash a company and has absolutely nothing to say about the game itself. He is what he is "a man on a mission". However since at one point he claimed to like to comment on games I would say this post is way off the mark. Heck he doesn't even talk about SWG in this post. His gloves have finaly come off with this post which put a very large smile on my face. He is a lobbyist and by the looks of it a full time one. Thing is lobbyists often loose perspective and eventualy stop listening to those they are supposedly lobbying to help. At that point they then become more of a liability then anything. As their viewpoints are no longer balanced or in this case of this thread logical lol.
The only thing I am defending is rational and logical thinking, something you havent shown us yet. "sony was fined 6 digits"...? Do you know how many companies are paying out money for lawsuits, mistakes or just out right stupidity? if you think Sony is the only one then you are sorely mistaken. Feel free to look up any lawsuits on the chain of companies that own blizzard for example.
Going back to "sony paying 6 digits".... Did you know some guy recently fell off his bike and blamed it on the sidewalk, which then ended up with him blaming the city. He was able to sue for 5 million dollars because he was a dumb ass and fell off his bike. He got away with it! Does that make the city wrong? Does it make them evil? Or does it mean some guy is taking advantage of the system. Sadly when someone sues a department of the city, and the city fronts the bill, it comes out of tax payer dollars. Its different with private companies and corporations...but guess what, the point remains the same. It doesnt make the city/corporation/company evil, bad, or wrong. In fact, in this case the guy was wrong, and used the system to get away with it.
Just like a burglar can use the system to sue the owner of a home that hes breaking into, because he hurt himself on the property.
Hey did you know PETA is filing charges because a game contains animals that can get killed. Did you know they can get away with it, claim its supporting animal cruelty, and get a nice paycheck if they win in court. People milk the loopholes in the system, and if you noticed they all claim its "ethical" bullshiet.
Im telling you, you dont have a valid case for your argument. All i see is typical Sony hate, like a liberal to hates conservatives for no reason other than thats what he identifies with himself as doing. It sounds like you rally under a "hate sony" banner, and no matter how illogical it is, you feel it must be your mission to make them look worse, since its some how a crusade. I just dont see the logic in this, especially when you see every single big company being the target for this kind of stuff. If you really feel pissed off, feel free to rage against the banking system thats destroying the worlds economy, the greedy corporations that are actually the CAUSE of real unethical practices and events... Trust me, your time would be better spend there than raging against Sony on a video game forum.
Just because a company is forced to pay a sum of money, either because they didnt want to deal with it and because it just wasnt worth fighting, or because they were indeed some
We can compare the sidewalk example to the rootkits if you like, or the misleading marketting for PSP, or the illegal collection of information from minors on the internet, or the judge's comments about Sony paying someone for his testimony in court.
I agree that just because someone wins money in court does not mean they were right. If you review these cases, however, I think you'll see that the cash penalty wasn't the most compelling part of the argument. I'm just saying that an 18.5 million dollar fine does not appear trivial.
Also, I just post here as a hobby. Believe me, I spend a lot more time and energy addressing some of the other issues you mention. This is me taking a break lol.
I appreciate your arguments too, they're very intelligent and logically presented, even though I disagree--with respect.
P.S. One final thought for the night, well more of a question really. If Sony wants to seperate itself from the tarnished reputation of some of its subsidiaries, is it taking steps to ensure that there is appropriate management restructuring where it's needed? Are the decision makers responsible for ethical problems subject to any investigation and/or disciplinary action? If so, I think this would build some trust. Just my opinion.
A woman successfully sued macdonalds because she burnt herself on a cup of coffee that she placed between her legs cause she was in a wheelchair. She sued them on the basis that they did not warn her that the coffee in the cup was hot. Hence the evil macdonalds causes bodily harm and is unethical based on this case..
Loved this thread by the way want to see more made me wonder what you were doing this weekend .. Now I know
p.s. I hate macdonalds because their food is worse then horrible however I don't see that they should come under fire as a corporation for reasons like this, but yet they do.. sounds familiar..
Do you really think that paying off a witness in court, violating children's rights, paying off radio stations to manipulate ratings, planting rootkits, and having Sony advertisers pretend to be something they are not for movies and PSPs are the same as spilled coffee? I'm confident that most readers will be able to put these things into perspective.
lessee rootkits was an attempt to prevent music from being copied and resold or handed out free to others. It was an attempt to protect the recording artists copyrights (bunch of people got pissed off bad sony). Child rights violations and paying off a witness belongs in national enquirer if it really did happen is debatable and just "hot gossip". Not sure about "pretending to be something they are not for movies" but anyhow yeah some of it is obviously fiction other is just the consumer industry not liking certain methods adopted to prevent what basically was considered theft and widespread. It was however something for people to grab hold of as a competitor and use to increase their sales or in your case continue to hate them some more.
Oddly enough none of this has to do with sony online entertainment these are other companies under the sony umbrella. As an aside I dont particularly like sony but they make some good TV sets and some games I like. They are a major power in certain industries if you can manage to avoid their parts (probably some in your computer) and every thing else with a sony name on it I would be amazed. Do I like everything they do? No but I dont beat them over the head with it I take note and dont buy their cd's, but that is about all I can do and even then I can't totally avoid it in the end.
A guy got mad at me because at one point I wore rebooks. I wore them for years and years as I have knee problems and this brand was recommended by an orthopedics specialist. Should I have caused myself great pain because of their involvment with south africa?
My internet company which has a basic monopoly on my cable based broad band internet (rogers the guys with the ipod problems awhile back).
Bottom line archangel there is a lot of strange things happening in the world .Should I stop watching TV,using the internet or doing anything online because my alternatives are no better? Should I take more anti-inflamatories and wear a brand which causes me great pain?
Feel free to speak up about them but also realize that apart from being mildly annoyed over rootkits I still have my sony TV set and I'm pretty sure the dvd rom inside my computer is sony's and yes I use some of their software games, I still use rogers's cable and if I had not found a brand better then rebook in more recent times (Avia) I would still be wearing Reebok running shoes.
Do I excuse it? No but a lot of it is just noise created by the comptetition trying to boost their sales.
I would say I have very good perspective and dont live in a blind rage over things that are half media hype created by other corporations to try to fool consumers into switching brands.
I think sony can do plenty wrong and HAS done plenty wrong, but I know of no company out there that has done nothing wrong hence when I see a product I want that has a sony name on it I will buy it as in some cases it offers the best quality in whatever industry its a part of. They dominate the blue ray market and blue ray is on the rise. If it eventually becomes and industry norm I won't be stopping to watch movies because of the fact that sony owns the rights to blue ray.
Personally when I see you hating on one company on mmorpg.com and not others I consider its you that has lost perspective and not the other way round.
edit sorry for chopped up sentances. I dont have time to fix it and have to get back to work. This note was inserted for those with sensitive eyes who can't recognize a post written in a hurry on a coffee break :O
Yup. Everybody is doing it. It's SONY, not SOE. All irrelevant arguments.
This is a Star Wars Galaxies Veterans refuge. The only companies worth discussing here are SONY and LEC (maybe Bioware if we choose to compare SWTOR with SWG and so on).
The sad, shabby tactics of the SONY apologists are amusing to say the least. It certainly leads one to question their motives.
actually i was commenting on mmorpg.com the entire site not just the veterans refuse and I actually am not a sony fan in that I dont like everything they do. I like your lack of direction in your post though. Nice deflected backhand twirl and I give it only a 7 out of 10 because its blatantly transparent. His post has absolutely nothing to do about SWG either yet its in the veterans refuge for the game SWG it has to do with sony corporation which is more then just games so the entier post is off topic if you want to get right down to it.
My answer was relevant and dead on. He has lost perspective as he does not give the same attention to the other major corps or companies on this site as he gives sony. I mean why is he not on darkfalls forum screaming at them about their rootkits and copying and pasting media hype? Why is he not on the forums for EA games screaming about all that they have done which also includes root kits, tcgs and much else?
I know why , but do you? If you want to come down on one company for certain practices and basically say "dont buy their stuff" which is what this op is intending you have to be fair and spread the H8 around otherwise it looks like what it is. A crusade against a single company for doing exactly what others are doing in fact some have been doing them for longer then sony.
I make no apologies for sony. They are what they are a massive corporation that screws up with great regularity however they still offer services and products I want and since no other company is any better the "perspective" issue is jsut that. I have perspective and see more then just one tiny piece of the issue here. I can't say the same for the OP though who does not exist to comment on games period he exists on these forums and on mmorpg.com to bash a company and has absolutely nothing to say about the game itself. He is what he is "a man on a mission". However since at one point he claimed to like to comment on games I would say this post is way off the mark. Heck he doesn't even talk about SWG in this post. His gloves have finaly come off with this post which put a very large smile on my face. He is a lobbyist and by the looks of it a full time one. Thing is lobbyists often loose perspective and eventualy stop listening to those they are supposedly lobbying to help. At that point they then become more of a liability then anything. As their viewpoints are no longer balanced or in this case of this thread logical lol.
what is your motivation for coming here and saying all this?
In his post he is talking about SONY -- the company that created the destroyed SWG, It is very relevant. YOU chose to deflect that by bringing up sneakers and south africa. Why are you doing this?
If you make no apologies for SONY, why come here and defend them by saying "everybody does it?"
If youa re not defending them, why even say such a thing?
If he is a lobbyist, for whom do you think he is a lobbyist?
fishermage.blogspot.com
There we go. A reasonable retort to the OP. I believe taht's the first in this thread. Bravo.
I also have never said SOE could do no wrong and the OP quotes me as the reason for this post. Some suggest I say that, which is wrong. I have only said SOE is an ethical company not a perfect company. I have also said many time that the positive things I have experienced from SONY/SOE are far more then the bad and that is why I stay a customer not because SOE is perfect.
[You said this in another thread]
SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior.
This is a common theme from you and most likely the reason the original posters points to you for the reason of this thread (I missed that part to be honest). Maybe you do not see the impact of what you say, how you say it or it is something else, but you do often make comments like this.
More often than not you choose not to see the wrong in soes actions. You do make up excuses and justifications for their actions in an attempt to make them seem plausible and even justifiable.
Sure every company makes mistakes and even screws up and even soe does some really cool things, but it is pretty obvious that soe has a long history of these types of actions.
There we go. A reasonable retort to the OP. I believe taht's the first in this thread. Bravo.
I also have never said SOE could do no wrong and the OP quotes me as the reason for this post. Some suggest I say that, which is wrong. I have only said SOE is an ethical company not a perfect company. I have also said many time that the positive things I have experienced from SONY/SOE are far more then the bad and that is why I stay a customer not because SOE is perfect.
[You said this in another thread]
SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior.
This is a common theme from you and most likely the reason the original posters points to you for the reason of this thread (I missed that part to be honest). Maybe you do not see the impact of what you say, how you say it or it is something else, but you do often make comments like this.
More often than not you choose not to see the wrong in soes actions. You do make up excuses and justifications for their actions in an attempt to make them seem plausible and even justifiable.
Sure every company makes mistakes and even screws up and even soe does some really cool things, but it is pretty obvious that soe has a long history of these types of actions.
You are right I did say I do not see unethical behavior. You did not have to go to another thread to get that I said it HERE. They have done things I disagree with that is not unethical. I know you disagree! How could you have missed it you have quoted the same paragraph. You are right I do not see the impact of what I write here. I just figure this is a simple mmo site for talking about games so why would anyone be impacted by anything I say. Especially someone like me as you have point out over and over writes misleading stuff that I do not even understand. I have suggested before just ignore me but I can see that is impossible. I will never comment on this issue again not becasuse you are right I simply do not care anymore. I am having fun in EQ2 and Free Realms.
You are the ones who keeps quoting me as if my opinion matters. I like SOE they are a legitimate legal company producing products I like and enjoy. I could careless what your feelings are on SOE ethics. Like I said the only reason I ever rang in or discussed this issue is "haters" keep coming to SOE game forums in threads that have nothing to do with ethic and put people down who enjoy SOE games. When we are talking about the game play of free realms no one cares about how you feel SOE done you wrong. The only reason I rang in here is I was quoted again. You say I am so wrong and write in a misleading way yet you simply can not bring yourself to ignore me. It is not hard I will show you how it is done. Have a nice day and have fun discussing the evil unethical SOE you are very good at that. Quote me all you like the "haters" can hyjack as many threads as they like I am done. You want to talk about game play, graphics, etc etc you know where to find me.
Thank you for joining the discussion. It was indeed your comments that were what I would call the tipping point for this thread. I've quoted them now in the O.P. to provide context. This part in particular caught my attention:
"SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior."
(So to the poster that suggests no one actually said this and that I must have made it up, well lol, 'nuff said.)
You're not the only one to say this though Ecc. I've read numerous posts over the years extolling Sony's virtues and criticizing anyone who finds fault with their business practices. In fact, for posting this information here (which is all independently verifiable) along with my views, I've been called mentally ill, and now told that if I own anything made by Sony my opinion is null and void--pardon the paraphrase ^_^.
I'm simply providing information that I think effectively refutes the blanket statement that Sony is ethical and there is no evidence of unethical behaviour. Perhaps you were truly unaware of this information when you made your statements. Perhaps now you could say, "I have seen evidence of unethical behaviour." If so, that would be great. Life is a learning journey after all.
As for owning anything made by Sony, the last major purchase I made from them was my beloved PS2, and I've often wondered what happened to the company that made it.
*grabs some popcorn then hits a button*
Release the regenerating berserk robot mice that spit poison darts!
Thank you for joining the discussion. It was indeed your comments that were what I would call the tipping point for this thread. I've quoted them now in the O.P. to provide context. This part in particular caught my attention:
"SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior."
(So to the poster that suggests no one actually said this and that I must have made it up, well lol, 'nuff said.)
You're not the only one to say this though Ecc. I've read numerous posts over the years extolling Sony's virtues and criticizing anyone who finds fault with their business practices. In fact, for posting this information here (which is all independently verifiable) along with my views, I've been called mentally ill, and now told that if I own anything made by Sony my opinion is null and void--pardon the paraphrase ^_^.
I'm simply providing information that I think effectively refutes the blanket statement that Sony is ethical and there is no evidence of unethical behaviour. Perhaps you were truly unaware of this information when you made your statements. Perhaps now you could say, "I have seen evidence of unethical behaviour." If so, that would be great. Life is a learning journey after all.
As for owning anything made by Sony, the last major purchase I made from them was my beloved PS2, and I've often wondered what happened to the company that made it.
by quoting the guy your basically carrying a discussion from another forum to this one. It was not that appropriate where it was on free realms but its even less appropriate now.
In short if you wonder why the natives are so restless the words "not cool" are on top of my head. Its not sufficient you trolled a the free realm forum and bothered this guy there with this nonsense. You then started a thread elsewhere.quoted him and continued it on basically you called an individual out.
Its an entirely inappropriate thread and the motivation behind it even more inappropriate. Not only is it totally off topic and not about gaming at all your singling out an individual for his statements in such a way as well it got well noticed.
So on a serious note yup Not cool archangel not cool at all. Statements people make bother you so much that you must start spin off threads to clarify your position. Its not the first time its happened and I"m sure it wont be the last. It is however over the top and rather inappropriate.
Had the thread title not been so obviously bait and the guy quoted at the bottom of theoriginal not been quoted then it would not have become what it is. Obvious flamebait for the purpose of trolling an individual for his views.
With a different title and leaving out his quote it would have gotten an entirely different response. I sure as heck would not have bothered but it is what it is. In poor taste and very very "not cool"
Once again, this isn't a matter of opinions. It doesn't matter if we agree with their actions or not. Unless we can find some evidence of lieing and making false promises falling into ethical behavior of business we are not talking about something that is an opinions. There are laws and rules against this sort of behavior and strangely enough they are usually called something similar to code of ethics that detail lies and false promises as being unethical.
We can have opinions about how ethical or unethical soe is overall, how much impact those actions may had, if those actions are enough to worry about and things of that nature. All of those are opinions and subjective.
What we cannot do is say something is ethical by rationalizing it through comparisons or other non relevent issues. It doesn't matter if we agree or disagree with the whats and whys of those actions when the basic principles of those actions are unethical.
I understand soe gets a lot of flack in many threads and it gets irritating, but you have to understand that it is happening for a reason even if you don't see or agree with those reasons. That is not a justification mind you, just acknowledging what is happening and why it is happening. If people didn't feel so betrayed then it wouldn't be much of an issue I guess.
Yet at the same time the supporters on the complete opposite side of the extreme do the same thing. There is always some rationization about "oh every company lies to their customers" or "Its ok to break promises, because I like the changes and don't care if people quit over this". This is at least as bad as the hate that gets spewed, but at least the negative acknowledges a pattern of behavior in the company where as comments like "soe has never done anything unethical" are at best very misleading to someone who may not have had any exposure to soe and their brand of customer relations.
Thank you for joining the discussion. It was indeed your comments that were what I would call the tipping point for this thread. I've quoted them now in the O.P. to provide context. This part in particular caught my attention:
"SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior."
(So to the poster that suggests no one actually said this and that I must have made it up, well lol, 'nuff said.)
You're not the only one to say this though Ecc. I've read numerous posts over the years extolling Sony's virtues and criticizing anyone who finds fault with their business practices. In fact, for posting this information here (which is all independently verifiable) along with my views, I've been called mentally ill, and now told that if I own anything made by Sony my opinion is null and void--pardon the paraphrase ^_^.
I'm simply providing information that I think effectively refutes the blanket statement that Sony is ethical and there is no evidence of unethical behaviour. Perhaps you were truly unaware of this information when you made your statements. Perhaps now you could say, "I have seen evidence of unethical behaviour." If so, that would be great. Life is a learning journey after all.
As for owning anything made by Sony, the last major purchase I made from them was my beloved PS2, and I've often wondered what happened to the company that made it.
by quoting the guy your basically carrying a discussion from another forum to this one. It was not that appropriate where it was on free realms but its even less appropriate now.
In short if you wonder why the natives are so restless the words "not cool" are on top of my head. Its not sufficient you trolled a the free realm forum and bothered this guy here with this nonsense. You then started a thread elsewhere.quoted him and continued it on basically you called an individual out.
Its an entirely inappropriate thread and the motivation behind it even more inappropriate. Not only is it totally off topic and not about gaming at all your singling out an individual for his statements in such a way as well it got well noticed.
So on a serious note yup Not cool archangel not cool at all. Statements people make bother you so much that you must start spin off threads to clarify your position. Its not the first time its happened and I"m sure it wont be the last. It is however over the top and rather inappropriate.
Had the thread title not been so obviously bait and the guy quoted at the bottom of the thread not been quoted then it would not have become what it is. Obvious flamebait for the purpose of trolling an individual for his views.
With a different title and leaving out his quote it would have gotten an entirely different response. I sure as heck would not have bothered but it is what it is. In poor taste and very very "not cool"
The original comments suggested that it is only whining SWG veterans that would criticize the ethics of SOE and Sony. I felt that this was the appropriate forum to address these comments, and I still do. Also, this has been a theme on this forum dating back to around Nov. 2005; this is just the most blatant example of it that I've seen to date.
The original comments implicate SWG veterans, so it is in the SWG veteran forum that I chose to discuss them. You may think that responding to comments about SWG veterans in the SWG veteran forum is uncool and inappropriate, or you may just desperately want this conversation to end. Sometimes when people can't refute a point of view, they simply try to make the conversation go away. Either way, I think other readers can make the connection between the comments, my response and their placement on this board.
I also think your accusation of flame-bait is incorrect. I'm not flaming anyone, or inciting anyone to flame people. I'm responding to a theme that has occured a number of times over the years, and that has been echoed once again more recently. I'm providing information that I think effectively refutes this theme, and I believe I'm doing it respectfully.
Thank you for joining the discussion. It was indeed your comments that were what I would call the tipping point for this thread. I've quoted them now in the O.P. to provide context. This part in particular caught my attention:
"SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior."
(So to the poster that suggests no one actually said this and that I must have made it up, well lol, 'nuff said.)
You're not the only one to say this though Ecc. I've read numerous posts over the years extolling Sony's virtues and criticizing anyone who finds fault with their business practices. In fact, for posting this information here (which is all independently verifiable) along with my views, I've been called mentally ill, and now told that if I own anything made by Sony my opinion is null and void--pardon the paraphrase ^_^.
I'm simply providing information that I think effectively refutes the blanket statement that Sony is ethical and there is no evidence of unethical behaviour. Perhaps you were truly unaware of this information when you made your statements. Perhaps now you could say, "I have seen evidence of unethical behaviour." If so, that would be great. Life is a learning journey after all.
As for owning anything made by Sony, the last major purchase I made from them was my beloved PS2, and I've often wondered what happened to the company that made it.
by quoting the guy your basically carrying a discussion from another forum to this one. It was not that appropriate where it was on free realms but its even less appropriate now.
In short if you wonder why the natives are so restless the words "not cool" are on top of my head. Its not sufficient you trolled a the free realm forum and bothered this guy here with this nonsense. You then started a thread elsewhere.quoted him and continued it on basically you called an individual out.
Its an entirely inappropriate thread and the motivation behind it even more inappropriate. Not only is it totally off topic and not about gaming at all your singling out an individual for his statements in such a way as well it got well noticed.
So on a serious note yup Not cool archangel not cool at all. Statements people make bother you so much that you must start spin off threads to clarify your position. Its not the first time its happened and I"m sure it wont be the last. It is however over the top and rather inappropriate.
Had the thread title not been so obviously bait and the guy quoted at the bottom of the thread not been quoted then it would not have become what it is. Obvious flamebait for the purpose of trolling an individual for his views.
With a different title and leaving out his quote it would have gotten an entirely different response. I sure as heck would not have bothered but it is what it is. In poor taste and very very "not cool"
The original comments suggested that it is only whining SWG veterans that would criticize the ethics of SOE and Sony. I felt that this was the appropriate forum to address these comments, and I still do. Also, this has been a theme on this forum dating back to around Nov. 2005; this is just the most blatant example of it that I've seen to date.
The original comments implicate SWG veterans, so it is in the SWG veteran forum that I chose to discuss them. You may think that responding to comments about SWG veterans in the SWG veteran forum is uncool and inappropriate, or you may just desperately want this conversation to end. Sometimes when people can't refute a point of view, they simply try to make the conversation go away. Either way, I think other readers can make the connection between the comments, my response and their placement on this board.
I also think your accusation of flame-bait is incorrect. I'm not flaming anyone, or inciting anyone to flame people. I'm responding to a theme that has occured a number of times over the years, and that has been echoed once again more recently. I'm providing information that I think effectively refutes this theme, and I believe I'm doing it respectfully.
you were on a forum criticising a game that you have neither player nor seen and spewing soe "lies" propoganda which was totally totallly inappropriate. It was trolling in its purest form. He said something about it and then you moved it here and continued it. You know why you have the rep that you have? Its because you were trolling for the sole of getting the message across that sony is unethical and lying and you had no interest in the game while there absolutely none. Then you moved it here. Had you not been there in the first place and trolling a forum for no other reason then to criticise the publishers for something in the past (again) he would not have said what he said and this thread would not exist. I personally would not be so bold to do what you do and so now you have to realize that you are labelled as you are and for good reason. You have gone above and beyond that scope and taken it a step further even and created this spin off thread instead of letting it be which would have been the smart thing.
Now it looks like you not him, but then again you were on a forum for a game you have not seen simply posting the routine list of soe lies for appriate coverage for your cause. Dont troll gaming forums like that and you wont get spoken to in such a manner. This is afterall a site about gaming and you are basically putting a person into a position where if he says nothing there is a problem so yes you called him out and weakend the "cause" further. Its become personal now and you made it personal by quoting him and carrying the topic to a second forum. Again not cool /shrug
Thank you for joining the discussion. It was indeed your comments that were what I would call the tipping point for this thread. I've quoted them now in the O.P. to provide context. This part in particular caught my attention:
"SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior."
(So to the poster that suggests no one actually said this and that I must have made it up, well lol, 'nuff said.)
You're not the only one to say this though Ecc. I've read numerous posts over the years extolling Sony's virtues and criticizing anyone who finds fault with their business practices. In fact, for posting this information here (which is all independently verifiable) along with my views, I've been called mentally ill, and now told that if I own anything made by Sony my opinion is null and void--pardon the paraphrase ^_^.
I'm simply providing information that I think effectively refutes the blanket statement that Sony is ethical and there is no evidence of unethical behaviour. Perhaps you were truly unaware of this information when you made your statements. Perhaps now you could say, "I have seen evidence of unethical behaviour." If so, that would be great. Life is a learning journey after all.
As for owning anything made by Sony, the last major purchase I made from them was my beloved PS2, and I've often wondered what happened to the company that made it.
by quoting the guy your basically carrying a discussion from another forum to this one. It was not that appropriate where it was on free realms but its even less appropriate now.
In short if you wonder why the natives are so restless the words "not cool" are on top of my head. Its not sufficient you trolled a the free realm forum and bothered this guy here with this nonsense. You then started a thread elsewhere.quoted him and continued it on basically you called an individual out.
Its an entirely inappropriate thread and the motivation behind it even more inappropriate. Not only is it totally off topic and not about gaming at all your singling out an individual for his statements in such a way as well it got well noticed.
So on a serious note yup Not cool archangel not cool at all. Statements people make bother you so much that you must start spin off threads to clarify your position. Its not the first time its happened and I"m sure it wont be the last. It is however over the top and rather inappropriate.
Had the thread title not been so obviously bait and the guy quoted at the bottom of the thread not been quoted then it would not have become what it is. Obvious flamebait for the purpose of trolling an individual for his views.
With a different title and leaving out his quote it would have gotten an entirely different response. I sure as heck would not have bothered but it is what it is. In poor taste and very very "not cool"
The original comments suggested that it is only whining SWG veterans that would criticize the ethics of SOE and Sony. I felt that this was the appropriate forum to address these comments, and I still do. Also, this has been a theme on this forum dating back to around Nov. 2005; this is just the most blatant example of it that I've seen to date.
The original comments implicate SWG veterans, so it is in the SWG veteran forum that I chose to discuss them. You may think that responding to comments about SWG veterans in the SWG veteran forum is uncool and inappropriate, or you may just desperately want this conversation to end. Sometimes when people can't refute a point of view, they simply try to make the conversation go away. Either way, I think other readers can make the connection between the comments, my response and their placement on this board.
I also think your accusation of flame-bait is incorrect. I'm not flaming anyone, or inciting anyone to flame people. I'm responding to a theme that has occured a number of times over the years, and that has been echoed once again more recently. I'm providing information that I think effectively refutes this theme, and I believe I'm doing it respectfully.
you were on a forum criticising a game that you have neither player nor seen and spewing soe "lies" propoganda which was totally totallly inappropriate. It was trolling in its purest form. He said something about it and then you moved it here and continued it. You know why you have the rep that you have? Its because you were trolling for the sole of getting the message across that sony is unethical and lying and you had no interest in the game while there absolutely none. Then you moved it here. Had you not been there in the first place and trolling a forum for no other reason then to criticise the publishers for something in the past (again) he would not have said what he said and this thread would not exist. I personally would not be so bold to do what you do and so now you have to realize that you are labelled as you are and for good reason. You have gone above and beyond that scope and taken it a step further even and created this spin off thread instead of letting it be which would have been the smart thing.
Now it looks like you not him, but then again you were on a forum for a game you have not seen simply posting the routine list of soe lies for appriate coverage for your cause. Dont troll gaming forums like that and you wont get spoken to in such a manner. This is afterall a site about gaming and you are basically putting a person into a position where if he says nothing there is a problem so yes you called him out and weakend the "cause" further. Its become personal now and you made it personal by quoting him and carrying the topic to a second forum. Again not cool /shrug
You are free to prove he lied about SOE...but I doubt we will see that from you.
This is the appropriate forum for the discussion.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
unmax, thank you.
Actually he is the one making the accusations the burden of proof is on his side not on mine. I have not said either he lied about or soe lied period. So yeah redirecting the thread back to where it belongs with the guy doing the actual accusing. About all that anyone has been able to prove is that SOE screwed up or changed its mind but no one has proven that there was willful deciet involved and these are different things.
lol your welcome. I have been watching two particular posters follow you around for awhile now. For some reason today I felt like saying something.. (probably because i have never seen you post on this particular subforum )
Thank you for joining the discussion. It was indeed your comments that were what I would call the tipping point for this thread. I've quoted them now in the O.P. to provide context. This part in particular caught my attention:
"SOE and SONY are an ethical company. I have never seen any unethical behavior."
(So to the poster that suggests no one actually said this and that I must have made it up, well lol, 'nuff said.)
You're not the only one to say this though Ecc. I've read numerous posts over the years extolling Sony's virtues and criticizing anyone who finds fault with their business practices. In fact, for posting this information here (which is all independently verifiable) along with my views, I've been called mentally ill, and now told that if I own anything made by Sony my opinion is null and void--pardon the paraphrase ^_^.
I'm simply providing information that I think effectively refutes the blanket statement that Sony is ethical and there is no evidence of unethical behaviour. Perhaps you were truly unaware of this information when you made your statements. Perhaps now you could say, "I have seen evidence of unethical behaviour." If so, that would be great. Life is a learning journey after all.
As for owning anything made by Sony, the last major purchase I made from them was my beloved PS2, and I've often wondered what happened to the company that made it.
by quoting the guy your basically carrying a discussion from another forum to this one. It was not that appropriate where it was on free realms but its even less appropriate now.
In short if you wonder why the natives are so restless the words "not cool" are on top of my head. Its not sufficient you trolled a the free realm forum and bothered this guy here with this nonsense. You then started a thread elsewhere.quoted him and continued it on basically you called an individual out.
Its an entirely inappropriate thread and the motivation behind it even more inappropriate. Not only is it totally off topic and not about gaming at all your singling out an individual for his statements in such a way as well it got well noticed.
So on a serious note yup Not cool archangel not cool at all. Statements people make bother you so much that you must start spin off threads to clarify your position. Its not the first time its happened and I"m sure it wont be the last. It is however over the top and rather inappropriate.
Had the thread title not been so obviously bait and the guy quoted at the bottom of the thread not been quoted then it would not have become what it is. Obvious flamebait for the purpose of trolling an individual for his views.
With a different title and leaving out his quote it would have gotten an entirely different response. I sure as heck would not have bothered but it is what it is. In poor taste and very very "not cool"
The original comments suggested that it is only whining SWG veterans that would criticize the ethics of SOE and Sony. I felt that this was the appropriate forum to address these comments, and I still do. Also, this has been a theme on this forum dating back to around Nov. 2005; this is just the most blatant example of it that I've seen to date.
The original comments implicate SWG veterans, so it is in the SWG veteran forum that I chose to discuss them. You may think that responding to comments about SWG veterans in the SWG veteran forum is uncool and inappropriate, or you may just desperately want this conversation to end. Sometimes when people can't refute a point of view, they simply try to make the conversation go away. Either way, I think other readers can make the connection between the comments, my response and their placement on this board.
I also think your accusation of flame-bait is incorrect. I'm not flaming anyone, or inciting anyone to flame people. I'm responding to a theme that has occured a number of times over the years, and that has been echoed once again more recently. I'm providing information that I think effectively refutes this theme, and I believe I'm doing it respectfully.
you were on a forum criticising a game that you have neither player nor seen and spewing soe "lies" propoganda which was totally totallly inappropriate. It was trolling in its purest form. He said something about it and then you moved it here and continued it. You know why you have the rep that you have? Its because you were trolling for the sole of getting the message across that sony is unethical and lying and you had no interest in the game while there absolutely none. Then you moved it here. Had you not been there in the first place and trolling a forum for no other reason then to criticise the publishers for something in the past (again) he would not have said what he said and this thread would not exist. I personally would not be so bold to do what you do and so now you have to realize that you are labelled as you are and for good reason. You have gone above and beyond that scope and taken it a step further even and created this spin off thread instead of letting it be which would have been the smart thing.
Now it looks like you not him, but then again you were on a forum for a game you have not seen simply posting the routine list of soe lies for appriate coverage for your cause. Dont troll gaming forums like that and you wont get spoken to in such a manner. This is afterall a site about gaming and you are basically putting a person into a position where if he says nothing there is a problem so yes you called him out and weakend the "cause" further. Its become personal now and you made it personal by quoting him and carrying the topic to a second forum. Again not cool /shrug
Actually I wasn't trolling at all. You know how the most recent posts in the forums are available on the home page? They are there, I believe, to catch our attention. My attention was caught. I read the comments about SWG veterans along with denial of any wrong-doing on the part of Sony, and chose to discuss that in the SWG veteran forum.
Your accusation that I was trolling is not an accurate reflection of what happened. The post title was about SOE, and the author of the post was Daffid. I find his comments on SOE very insightful, so I chose to read them. This does not a troll make. I saw that there was discussion about whether or not "free-realms" is free. I responded to the term "free-realms" on that forum. Then I saw the comments that are specifically about SWG veterans, so I responded to those here. For me to begin a lengthy discussion about SWG veterans and their views in the other forum would have been inappropriate I think. So, comments on free realms are in the free realms forum--of course--and comments about SWG veterans and Sony's ethics in relation to us are available on this forum--of course. You can try to villify that all you like, but I still think you just want this conversation to end because you may not like the information it contains.
I wonder if it would be too much trouble instead to simply acknowledge that yes Sony has been at the centre of ethical controversy a number of times, and to suggest otherwise really isn't accurate. I also wonder if it wouldn't be too much trouble to simply admit that SWG veterans are not the only people who have had concerns with Sony's ethics.
Also, I'm very comfortable with the reputation I have on these boards. You're free to have whatever opinion of me that you like, and I'm aware that it's often unique.
P.S. In answer to a post made by Miagi earlier, I believe it would also be inaccurate to say that Sony can do nothing right. I haven't seen that stated overtly, but I have got that "drift" from some posts. I think it's more accurate to say that there have been a number of events that have raised ethical concerns with SOE, and Sony as a whole. That doesn't take away from the fact that my PS2 is still kicking after many years of overuse. The Sony brand name used to be synomous for quality imo; it would be nice to see that again, without all the apparent scandals.
Actually he is the one making the accusations the burden of proof is on his side not on mine. I have not said either he lied about or soe lied period. So yeah redirecting the thread back to where it belongs with the guy doing the actual accusing. About all that anyone has been able to prove is that SOE screwed up or changed its mind but no one has proven that there was willful deciet involved and these are different things.
You must be blind or perhaps just didn't read the thread because what I saw was arch citing examples...whereas you have not refuted one point other than to attack and redirect the discussion.
You ask for willfull deceit? Please check what Dan Rubenfield stated on his blog....even the redacted version. If that is not willfull than I am not sure what else would prove it.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Just wondering if you're aware that "apologist" is not an insult. You seemed to take offense at the term. It's meaning is as follows according to wikipedia: "Apologists are authors, writers, editors of scientific logs or academic journals, and leaders known for taking on the points in arguments, conflicts or positions that are either placed under popular scrutinies or viewed under persecutory examinations. The term comes from the Greek word apologia (απολογ?α), meaning a speaking in defense." I think that fits, but it's just my opinion.
Also, I'm wondering if you and others who have made similar claims over the years are able to acknowledge that Sony has some history of ethical controversy, and that SWG vets are not the only people to make their concerns known? If so, I would conclude that this has been a productive dialogue.
lol your welcome. I have been watching two particular posters follow you around for awhile now. For some reason today I felt like saying something.. (probably because i have never seen you post on this particular subforum )
Not sure I have posted in the refuge forum before. I was just suprised to see my post from another thread moved here. I was really mad about SWG's change to NGE, I quit about 2 hours after I logged in that day. So when that happened I simply left SWG. I never felt the need to tell others they were wrong for enjoying the NGE or that I needed to warn them about what SOE did. I feel people are free to what ever they want with their entertainment time and money. I also did not feel the need to post about SWG anymore since I no longer played it. SOE paid a small price from me, they lost my station pass subscription as a result and I went down to one subscription, that is to EQ2. In 4 years that would have been hundreds of additional dollars from me that SOE lost. Even though I was mad about SWG I let it go and am glad I did. I have had 4 great years in EQ2 with great people and hope to have a few more.
Who really cares and wtf does this have to do with SWG a game no one plays anymore??? Your nothing more that what was described in the end of your post a "HATER"
You and your brethren arnt very good at the radical conspiracy theory thing, how long have your ilk been trying to get SOE banned from existence and Warhammer shut down now? Perhaps you should try a new hobby? I know, how about acutally playing a game?
Actually he is the one making the accusations the burden of proof is on his side not on mine. I have not said either he lied about or soe lied period. So yeah redirecting the thread back to where it belongs with the guy doing the actual accusing. About all that anyone has been able to prove is that SOE screwed up or changed its mind but no one has proven that there was willful deciet involved and these are different things.
You must be blind or perhaps just didn't read the thread because what I saw was arch citing examples...whereas you have not refuted one point other than to attack and redirect the discussion.
You ask for willfull deceit? Please check what Dan Rubenfield stated on his blog....even the redacted version. If that is not willfull than I am not sure what else would prove it.
The news articles that I cited make reference to numerous findings of guilt regarding Sony on various issues. For SOE specifically, I highlighted not findings of guilt for criminal action, but rather allegations of bait and switch that led to an extensive refund campaign. I've also highlighted that the loot card tournaments that offer prizes for an entry fee fail legislative tests in certain jurisdictions, and therefore cannot be legally offered. Other consumer complaints about alleged unethical behaviour have been referenced. These are the opinions of the consumers.
If I've quoted something incorrectly regarding any of the guilt findings, fines, or lawsuits, please feel free to correct me. If I'm mistaken about the bait and switch allegations and the refunds, please correct me. If I'm mistaken about the legal restrictions on the loot tournaments, please correct me. If you don't agree with other consumers' opinions, you're free of course to disagree.
lol so much wasted energy.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas