provide links for those first hand accounts sorry dont believe it. Sony doesnt own Star Wars Lucas does so they can just do anything they want to the game and lore and property? doesnt make sense. Turbine was careful with LOTRO because of that same reason. Cant believe that Sony was allowed to do whatever they wanted with someone elses property lol Lucas pushed for the changes Sony made the decision that that was the changes that needed to be made.Sony was wrong on how they changed it but come on Lucas has complete say over what happens with his IP NOT SONY
People can say what they want about a company that makes products or just publishes them but the fact is alot of people love games that are carried under the SOE flag. If some of you people dont like it then dont play them simple as that. Move on to another company and other games. =/ Just seems soooo simple. I play a SOE game with my wife and we love it. Our son plays Freerealms and he ADORES it. Some people hate them some people dont. I understand the bitterness some feel about SWG but wow that was a looong time ago now. The game was a big success for a minute sure but it was still bonked at launch and the subs were declining quickly. SOE and Lucas thought the NGE would fix it and bring them the WOW numbers they thought Star Wars deserved. It didnt work. I am sure they are just as pissed about that as some of you are lol.
People can say what they want about a company that makes products or just publishes them but the fact is alot of people love games that are carried under the SOE flag. If some of you people dont like it then dont play them simple as that. Move on to another company and other games. =/ Just seems soooo simple. I play a SOE game with my wife and we love it. Our son plays Freerealms and he ADORES it. Some people hate them some people dont. I understand the bitterness some feel about SWG but wow that was a looong time ago now. The game was a big success for a minute sure but it was still bonked at launch and the subs were declining quickly. SOE and Lucas thought the NGE would fix it and bring them the WOW numbers they thought Star Wars deserved. It didnt work. I am sure they are just as pissed about that as some of you are lol.
It's because they are losers.
very insightful. i shall medidate on this all night.
if you think SOE stopped at the nge i suggest you head over to the Vanguard or Everquest forums for that matter and have a look at SOE's recent history with those games.
hehe, just like the rest of the fanbois, after they run out of arguments they resort to the old "get over it" post. never fails to happen.
Its not about fanboys vs haters. Lot of posters just give up on ppl like you, because they realise that some people cant quit this unhealthy obsession. Most posters on this board just want to play games you know. For fun. They are not interesting in some kind of holier then thou crusade like some of the delusional posters in this thread.
So its more about a 'who cares' vs anti SOE zealots kind of thing. You and your fellow anti SOE forumwarriors definately need a reality check.
hehe, just like the rest of the fanbois, after they run out of arguments they resort to the old "get over it" post. never fails to happen.
Its not about fanboys vs haters. Lot of posters just give up on ppl like you, because they realise that some people cant quit this unhealthy obsession. Most posters on this board just want to play games you know. For fun. They are not interesting in some kind of holier then thou crusade like some of the delusional posters in this thread.
So its more about a 'who cares' vs anti SOE zealots kind of thing. You and your fellow anti SOE forumwarriors definately need a reality check.
clearly, you are interested; otherwise you wouldn't be reading and replying to posts in this thread.
so its about SOE zealots who post in an effort to avoid past and present be missrepresented or missinterpreted by posters vs. those who care but really don't have a clue why they are reading the threads they are reading.
hehe, just like the rest of the fanbois, after they run out of arguments they resort to the old "get over it" post. never fails to happen.
Its not about fanboys vs haters. Lot of posters just give up on ppl like you, because they realise that some people cant quit this unhealthy obsession. Most posters on this board just want to play games you know. For fun. They are not interesting in some kind of holier then thou crusade like some of the delusional posters in this thread.
So its more about a 'who cares' vs anti SOE zealots kind of thing. You and your fellow anti SOE forumwarriors definately need a reality check.
clearly, you are interested; otherwise you wouldn't be reading and replying to posts in this thread.
so its about SOE zealots who post in an effort to avoid past and present be missrepresented or missinterpreted by posters vs. those who care but really don't have a clue why they are reading the threads they are reading.
I dont have a clue? I do recognise when I see posters put on their tinfoil hats and start rambling incoherently about a company they barely know about. Just because that company changed a game once that was their life.
I care because I find it scary that ppl can go mental over just a game company like this. I also cant believe that those people are this serious. I always suspect a troll, because frankly I find it very difficult to believe that players react as if a company destroyed their life. Over a bloody game.
So you see? My interest in this thread has nothing to do with what Sony specifically did or didnt do. Like any normal person I understand that they are just a commercial company that will do whatever they think is needed to make money. And like most other companies make stupid mistakes.
hehe, just like the rest of the fanbois, after they run out of arguments they resort to the old "get over it" post. never fails to happen.
Its not about fanboys vs haters. Lot of posters just give up on ppl like you, because they realise that some people cant quit this unhealthy obsession. Most posters on this board just want to play games you know. For fun. They are not interesting in some kind of holier then thou crusade like some of the delusional posters in this thread.
So its more about a 'who cares' vs anti SOE zealots kind of thing. You and your fellow anti SOE forumwarriors definately need a reality check.
clearly, you are interested; otherwise you wouldn't be reading and replying to posts in this thread.
so its about SOE zealots who post in an effort to avoid past and present be missrepresented or missinterpreted by posters vs. those who care but really don't have a clue why they are reading the threads they are reading.
I dont have a clue? I do recognise when I see posters put on their tinfoil hats and start rambling incoherently about a company they barely know about. Just because that company changed a game once that was their life.
you will find we are usualy more knowledgeable about soe than many posters who come in here to defend it. we made it our business to track down every movement and management decision which has impacted their games. and have plenty of old, recent and present discussion forums about it.
I care because I find it scary that ppl can go mental over just a game company like this. I also cant believethat those people are this serious. I always suspect a troll, because frankly I find it very difficult to believe that players react as if a company destroyed their life. Over a bloody game.
who is over reacting here, or going mental as you say? you seem to be quite upset about this discussion; i am not.
So you see? My interest in this thread has nothing to do with what Sony specifically did or didnt do. Like any normal person I understand that they are just a commercial company that will do whatever they think is needed to make money. And like most other companies make stupid mistakes.
what is wrong about bringing some truth to light every now and again? and its not about what they did enterely, sometimes its about what they failed to do, their philosophy as a whole and continuous disregard for players; not nge exclusive, it has happened in everquest and vanguard in recent history.
People can say what they want about a company that makes products or just publishes them but the fact is alot of people love games that are carried under the SOE flag. If some of you people dont like it then dont play them simple as that. Move on to another company and other games. =/ Just seems soooo simple. I play a SOE game with my wife and we love it. Our son plays Freerealms and he ADORES it. Some people hate them some people dont. I understand the bitterness some feel about SWG but wow that was a looong time ago now. The game was a big success for a minute sure but it was still bonked at launch and the subs were declining quickly. SOE and Lucas thought the NGE would fix it and bring them the WOW numbers they thought Star Wars deserved. It didnt work. I am sure they are just as pissed about that as some of you are lol.
Brenlo of SOE said that the NGE was all their baby. Dan Rubenfield and Jeff Freeman (lead designers on NGE) also said it was their baby. The directive from LA was to make the game successful. SOE came up with the solution. The links above express much of that. I can find quotes, but this is all old information. Still if you want to read them here, I'll copy/paste.
Your point about moving on is a good one, really. The trouble is that SOE seems to continue to make decisions that lead to customer backlash (item shops in EQ, loot card gamble in SWG). At the same time, they continue to invite us to come back to their games. I just got another email from them not too long ago. Additionally, people continue to hop on forums like this and say ridiculous things, such as Sony and SOE have never done anything unethical.
Believe me, if SOE stopped doing things that have their players feeling burned, if they stopped trying to get us back into their games, and if people stopped denying the real problems that have happened, threads like this would have stopped years ago.
This thread is an excellent example of how things continue to spin. A simple point is made, with supporting evidence--Sony has had its share of ethical issues--and things go nuts lol. People are accused of flaming, crying, baiting, lying and picking on someone's friend.
All so unnecessary. It would be a whole lot simpler for everyone, I think, if folks could just admit, "yup, Sony has screwed up, and SWG vets aren't the only ones to notice." I guess it's harder to admit that than I would have thought.
Originally posted by blueturtle13 Lucas Arts and SOE were not getting the sub numbers they had at launch and thought it better to change it to make it more WOW like to get a piece of their pie. We all know that. If this was ALL SOE than why does Lucas Arts say they learned from the mistake? If it was all SOE?
You realize that the lesson learend by Lucas Arts is most likely to not blindly listen to thier vendors [AKA "the mmo experts"] they hired to create their game and totally dismiss their customers. Soe has a long history pre and post nge of ignoring their players, so it isn't like lucas arts made that decision when it is practially company policy in every soe mmo. They hired soe for their expertise and this is what they delivered. The mistake was listening to soe and approving the solution soe came up with.
Remember there are many accounts from soe employees that worked on the nge who detail how they created the concept and they had to work hard to get "the higher ups" to sign on to it.
Sure LA is just as guilty as soe is in the overall results of the nge, but soe was that catalyst and you can see similar treatment of the playerbase from soe recently in the manner they implmented station cash. Soe has always been the company in the relationship with poor customer relations.
Blaming lucas arts for the failures of the nge is like giving credit to lucas arts for the success of knights of the old republic instead of giving it to bioware. Bioware only made the game and according to your logic LA holds the IP rights so they must have been responsible for all the good decisions made in that games creation. Treating SOE and nothing but codemonkies in this situation is a serious disservice to how involved soe was in this game.
Originally posted by blueturtle13 Lucas Arts and SOE were not getting the sub numbers they had at launch and thought it better to change it to make it more WOW like to get a piece of their pie. We all know that. If this was ALL SOE than why does Lucas Arts say they learned from the mistake? If it was all SOE?
You realize that the lesson learend by Lucas Arts is most likely to not blindly listen to thier vendors [AKA "the mmo experts"] they hired to create their game and totally dismiss their customers. Soe has a long history pre and post nge of ignoring their players, so it isn't like lucas arts made that decision when it is practially company policy in every soe mmo. They hired soe for their expertise and this is what they delivered. The mistake was listening to soe and approving the solution soe came up with.
Remember there are many accounts from soe employees that worked on the nge who detail how they created the concept and they had to work hard to get "the higher ups" to sign on to it.
Sure LA is just as guilty as soe is in the overall results of the nge, but soe was that catalyst and you can see similar treatment of the playerbase from soe recently in the manner they implmented station cash. Soe has always been the company in the relationship with poor customer relations.
Blaming lucas arts for the failures of the nge is like giving credit to lucas arts for the success of knights of the old republic instead of giving it to bioware. Bioware only made the game and according to your logic LA holds the IP rights so they must have been responsible for all the good decisions made in that games creation. Treating SOE and nothing but codemonkies in this situation is a serious disservice to how involved soe was in this game.
Sorry to call you on that but that isnt true either. Lucas Arts isnt like EA that just publishes games. Lucas Arts was a game maker long before SWG. Here is a link from the Producer of SWG Julio Torres talking about why they made the changes (by the way he works for Lucas Arts NOT SOE. try again.
And you obviously didnt read the New York Times article link provided. Lucas Arts Senior Producer for SWG Nancy MacIntyre clearly gave credit to Lucas Arts for the decision to change it.
You asked for links and they were provided. There is no direct evidence that LEC did anything other than ask for more subs. You have been provided direct proof from 3 upper management employees of SOE that they were the drivers of the changes not LEC. LEC's sin was approving the change.
Nowhere in Julio's interview you linked did he say LEC was the directly responsible for the changes. That interview was damage control. He used "we decided" and such. We being SOE and LEC. SOE the developer...LEC the approver. Once the decision was made to move forward with it they both assumed responsibility and righly so.
The evidence provided supports that SOE was the brainchild and LEC approved and supported it.
As for McIntyre her statement to the NTY was also made in response to the customer outcry...more damage control. She never said LEC made the decision. She clearly stated LEC supported the decision for xyz reasons.
If you want to lay it soley at the feet of LEC go right ahead that is certainly your preogative and agree they deserve some responsibility.
Originally posted by blueturtle13 Sorry to call you on that but that isnt true either. Lucas Arts isnt like EA that just publishes games. Lucas Arts was a game maker long before SWG. Here is a link from the Producer of SWG Julio Torres talking about why they made the changes (by the way he works for Lucas Arts NOT SOE. try again. http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/star-wars-galaxies-2005/667893p1.html And you obviously didnt read the New York Times article link provided. Lucas Arts Senior Producer for SWG Nancy MacIntyre clearly gave credit to Lucas Arts for the decision to change it.
Where exactly in either of those articles does it say lucas arts forced soe to make these changes? Feel free to directly quote them, because everything I read on those do not come anywhere close to your claims. There was no blame assigned that I saw, except for the typical pr fluff of "we stand together".
I understand that LA made games, but they have never made an mmo and when they signed up with SOE, they were doing so due to soes reputation for being king of the hill, the mmo experts, the people with the most experience in making mmos. They didn't hire soe so that they could push them around and make all the decisions just to treat them like code monkeys. Even so, all of the nge faults can be seen echoed in other soe games where lucas arts has zero influence. This type of change has soes handwriting all over it.
Where exactly does Nancy "to much reading" MacIntyre lay full reposnsibility on the doorstep of lucas arts? I read the article and no where does she say anthing close to that. What she does say though is this
"We knew we were taking a significant risk with our existing player base, but we felt so strongly that we needed to make these changes for the sake of the game's long-term future that we all held hands, LucasArts and Sony, and went forward," Ms. MacIntyre said."
So again, feel free to directly quote the references you are making. Don't be shy. Show a quote where lucas arts states lucas arts was responsible for making soe do this.
Let me ask you a question, whos idea do you think it was to create and implement the combat upgrade? The one that was being talked about with SOE developers since shortly after release of the game? Revamping combat systems and overhauling games is practially a trademark of soe. The did it to almost every single system in EQ2. It was one of their first actions in the Matrix and yes they did it in SWG twice.
Everything from developer admittions all the way to past actions with their other games shows soe was in the creative and initiating drivers seat behind this. I have no doubt that lucas arts was upset with star wars galaxies, but can you blame them? Despite being a very creative and diverse game, it was a total failure in terms of functionality and programming. The soe developers delivered a half finished turd and I do not blame lucas arts one bit for being upset.
Originally posted by blueturtle13 Sorry to call you on that but that isnt true either. Lucas Arts isnt like EA that just publishes games. Lucas Arts was a game maker long before SWG. Here is a link from the Producer of SWG Julio Torres talking about why they made the changes (by the way he works for Lucas Arts NOT SOE. try again. http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/star-wars-galaxies-2005/667893p1.html And you obviously didnt read the New York Times article link provided. Lucas Arts Senior Producer for SWG Nancy MacIntyre clearly gave credit to Lucas Arts for the decision to change it.
Where exactly in either of those articles does it say lucas arts forced soe to make these changes? Feel free to directly quote them, because everything I read on those do not come anywhere close to your claims. There was no blame assigned that I saw, except for the typical pr fluff of "we stand together".
I understand that LA made games, but they have never made an mmo and when they signed up with SOE, they were doing so due to soes reputation for being king of the hill, the mmo experts, the people with the most experience in making mmos. They didn't hire soe so that they could push them around and make all the decisions just to treat them like code monkeys. Even so, all of the nge faults can be seen echoed in other soe games where lucas arts has zero influence. This type of change has soes handwriting all over it.
Where exactly does Nancy "to much reading" MacIntyre lay full reposnsibility on the doorstep of lucas arts? I read the article and no where does she say anthing close to that. What she does say though is this
"We knew we were taking a significant risk with our existing player base, but we felt so strongly that we needed to make these changes for the sake of the game's long-term future that we all held hands, LucasArts and Sony, and went forward," Ms. MacIntyre said."
So again, feel free to directly quote the references you are making. Don't be shy. Show a quote where lucas arts states lucas arts was responsible for making soe do this.
Let me ask you a question, whos idea do you think it was to create and implement the combat upgrade? The one that was being talked about with SOE developers since shortly after release of the game? Revamping combat systems and overhauling games is practially a trademark of soe. The did it to almost every single system in EQ2. It was one of their first actions in the Matrix and yes they did it in SWG twice.
Everything from developer admittions all the way to past actions with their other games shows soe was in the creative and initiating drivers seat behind this. I have no doubt that lucas arts was upset with star wars galaxies, but can you blame them? Despite being a very creative and diverse game, it was a total failure in terms of functionality and programming. The soe developers delivered a half finished turd and I do not blame lucas arts one bit for being upset.
Yup, it is well known what happened. SOE mismanaged the game from day one. LEC was not happy, and told them to fix the problem. Dan Rubenfield and his team came up with the NGE, and sold the idea to LEC. LEC trusted SOE (big mistake). SOE then implemented the NGE. The NGE failed, miserably.
LEC messed up -- they TRUSTED SOE to know what they were doing, and to be acting in good faith in the best interests in their partnership. Bad move.
Comments
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I gave you the names of the developers...I am not your research assistant...however you can find an archive of the conversations at mmofringe.com.
Archive of Dan's original blathering: www.mmofringe.com/oldforum/modules.php
Archive of Jeff's revelations: www.mmofringe.com/oldforum/modules.php
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
here you go, my young padawan learner:
http://www.mmofringe.com/index.php?option=com_joobb&view=topic&topic=70&Itemid=55
http://www.mmofringe.com/index.php?option=com_joobb&view=topic&topic=17&Itemid=55
eh, i just transfered them to the new site.
It's because they are losers.
Game. Set.
Match.
It's because they are losers.
very insightful. i shall medidate on this all night.
if you think SOE stopped at the nge i suggest you head over to the Vanguard or Everquest forums for that matter and have a look at SOE's recent history with those games.
here are the lyrics to an Eagle's song , I think of it every time I see a post in the swg vetran refuge
turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin? ?don?t blame me?
They point their crooked little fingers ar everybody else
Spend all their time feelin? sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma?s too thin; your daddy?s too fat
Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin? and cryin? and pitchin? a fit
Get over it, get over it
You say you haven?t been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if I gave you some cash
The more I think about it, old billy was right
Let?s kill all the lawyers, kill ?em tonight
You don?t want to work, you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn?t owe you a thing
Get over it
Get over it
If you don?t want to play, then you might as well split <------- (This is the part the rest of the mmo world sings to the vets)
Get over it, get over it
It?s like going to confession every time I hear you speak
You?re makin? the most of your losin? streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak
You drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in the gutter, bringin? everybody down
Complain about the present and blame it on the past
I?d like to find your inner child and kick it?s little ass
Get over it
Get over it
All this bitchin? and moanin? and pitchin? a fit
Get over it, get over it
Get over it
Get over it
It?s gotta stop sometime, so why don?t you quit
Get over it, get over it
playing eq2 and two worlds
hehe, just like the rest of the fanbois, after they run out of arguments they resort to the old "get over it" post. never fails to happen.
Would hardly call me a fanboy, I havent played swg for 4 years, and just recently stopped playing eq2 due to wanting to play TcoS and EvE more.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Its not about fanboys vs haters. Lot of posters just give up on ppl like you, because they realise that some people cant quit this unhealthy obsession. Most posters on this board just want to play games you know. For fun. They are not interesting in some kind of holier then thou crusade like some of the delusional posters in this thread.
So its more about a 'who cares' vs anti SOE zealots kind of thing. You and your fellow anti SOE forumwarriors definately need a reality check.
Its not about fanboys vs haters. Lot of posters just give up on ppl like you, because they realise that some people cant quit this unhealthy obsession. Most posters on this board just want to play games you know. For fun. They are not interesting in some kind of holier then thou crusade like some of the delusional posters in this thread.
So its more about a 'who cares' vs anti SOE zealots kind of thing. You and your fellow anti SOE forumwarriors definately need a reality check.
clearly, you are interested; otherwise you wouldn't be reading and replying to posts in this thread.
so its about SOE zealots who post in an effort to avoid past and present be missrepresented or missinterpreted by posters vs. those who care but really don't have a clue why they are reading the threads they are reading.
Its not about fanboys vs haters. Lot of posters just give up on ppl like you, because they realise that some people cant quit this unhealthy obsession. Most posters on this board just want to play games you know. For fun. They are not interesting in some kind of holier then thou crusade like some of the delusional posters in this thread.
So its more about a 'who cares' vs anti SOE zealots kind of thing. You and your fellow anti SOE forumwarriors definately need a reality check.
clearly, you are interested; otherwise you wouldn't be reading and replying to posts in this thread.
so its about SOE zealots who post in an effort to avoid past and present be missrepresented or missinterpreted by posters vs. those who care but really don't have a clue why they are reading the threads they are reading.
I dont have a clue? I do recognise when I see posters put on their tinfoil hats and start rambling incoherently about a company they barely know about. Just because that company changed a game once that was their life.
I care because I find it scary that ppl can go mental over just a game company like this. I also cant believe that those people are this serious. I always suspect a troll, because frankly I find it very difficult to believe that players react as if a company destroyed their life. Over a bloody game.
So you see? My interest in this thread has nothing to do with what Sony specifically did or didnt do. Like any normal person I understand that they are just a commercial company that will do whatever they think is needed to make money. And like most other companies make stupid mistakes.
<Mod Edit>
- Edited by GaiusMarius
Its not about fanboys vs haters. Lot of posters just give up on ppl like you, because they realise that some people cant quit this unhealthy obsession. Most posters on this board just want to play games you know. For fun. They are not interesting in some kind of holier then thou crusade like some of the delusional posters in this thread.
So its more about a 'who cares' vs anti SOE zealots kind of thing. You and your fellow anti SOE forumwarriors definately need a reality check.
clearly, you are interested; otherwise you wouldn't be reading and replying to posts in this thread.
so its about SOE zealots who post in an effort to avoid past and present be missrepresented or missinterpreted by posters vs. those who care but really don't have a clue why they are reading the threads they are reading.
I dont have a clue? I do recognise when I see posters put on their tinfoil hats and start rambling incoherently about a company they barely know about. Just because that company changed a game once that was their life.
you will find we are usualy more knowledgeable about soe than many posters who come in here to defend it. we made it our business to track down every movement and management decision which has impacted their games. and have plenty of old, recent and present discussion forums about it.
I care because I find it scary that ppl can go mental over just a game company like this. I also cant believethat those people are this serious. I always suspect a troll, because frankly I find it very difficult to believe that players react as if a company destroyed their life. Over a bloody game.
who is over reacting here, or going mental as you say? you seem to be quite upset about this discussion; i am not.
So you see? My interest in this thread has nothing to do with what Sony specifically did or didnt do. Like any normal person I understand that they are just a commercial company that will do whatever they think is needed to make money. And like most other companies make stupid mistakes.
what is wrong about bringing some truth to light every now and again? and its not about what they did enterely, sometimes its about what they failed to do, their philosophy as a whole and continuous disregard for players; not nge exclusive, it has happened in everquest and vanguard in recent history.
< Mod Edit >Brenlo of SOE said that the NGE was all their baby. Dan Rubenfield and Jeff Freeman (lead designers on NGE) also said it was their baby. The directive from LA was to make the game successful. SOE came up with the solution. The links above express much of that. I can find quotes, but this is all old information. Still if you want to read them here, I'll copy/paste.
Your point about moving on is a good one, really. The trouble is that SOE seems to continue to make decisions that lead to customer backlash (item shops in EQ, loot card gamble in SWG). At the same time, they continue to invite us to come back to their games. I just got another email from them not too long ago. Additionally, people continue to hop on forums like this and say ridiculous things, such as Sony and SOE have never done anything unethical.
Believe me, if SOE stopped doing things that have their players feeling burned, if they stopped trying to get us back into their games, and if people stopped denying the real problems that have happened, threads like this would have stopped years ago.
This thread is an excellent example of how things continue to spin. A simple point is made, with supporting evidence--Sony has had its share of ethical issues--and things go nuts lol. People are accused of flaming, crying, baiting, lying and picking on someone's friend.
All so unnecessary. It would be a whole lot simpler for everyone, I think, if folks could just admit, "yup, Sony has screwed up, and SWG vets aren't the only ones to notice." I guess it's harder to admit that than I would have thought.
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You realize that the lesson learend by Lucas Arts is most likely to not blindly listen to thier vendors [AKA "the mmo experts"] they hired to create their game and totally dismiss their customers. Soe has a long history pre and post nge of ignoring their players, so it isn't like lucas arts made that decision when it is practially company policy in every soe mmo. They hired soe for their expertise and this is what they delivered. The mistake was listening to soe and approving the solution soe came up with.
Remember there are many accounts from soe employees that worked on the nge who detail how they created the concept and they had to work hard to get "the higher ups" to sign on to it.
Sure LA is just as guilty as soe is in the overall results of the nge, but soe was that catalyst and you can see similar treatment of the playerbase from soe recently in the manner they implmented station cash. Soe has always been the company in the relationship with poor customer relations.
Blaming lucas arts for the failures of the nge is like giving credit to lucas arts for the success of knights of the old republic instead of giving it to bioware. Bioware only made the game and according to your logic LA holds the IP rights so they must have been responsible for all the good decisions made in that games creation. Treating SOE and nothing but codemonkies in this situation is a serious disservice to how involved soe was in this game.
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You realize that the lesson learend by Lucas Arts is most likely to not blindly listen to thier vendors [AKA "the mmo experts"] they hired to create their game and totally dismiss their customers. Soe has a long history pre and post nge of ignoring their players, so it isn't like lucas arts made that decision when it is practially company policy in every soe mmo. They hired soe for their expertise and this is what they delivered. The mistake was listening to soe and approving the solution soe came up with.
Remember there are many accounts from soe employees that worked on the nge who detail how they created the concept and they had to work hard to get "the higher ups" to sign on to it.
Sure LA is just as guilty as soe is in the overall results of the nge, but soe was that catalyst and you can see similar treatment of the playerbase from soe recently in the manner they implmented station cash. Soe has always been the company in the relationship with poor customer relations.
Blaming lucas arts for the failures of the nge is like giving credit to lucas arts for the success of knights of the old republic instead of giving it to bioware. Bioware only made the game and according to your logic LA holds the IP rights so they must have been responsible for all the good decisions made in that games creation. Treating SOE and nothing but codemonkies in this situation is a serious disservice to how involved soe was in this game.
Sorry to call you on that but that isnt true either. Lucas Arts isnt like EA that just publishes games. Lucas Arts was a game maker long before SWG. Here is a link from the Producer of SWG Julio Torres talking about why they made the changes (by the way he works for Lucas Arts NOT SOE.
try again.
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/star-wars-galaxies-2005/667893p1.html
And you obviously didnt read the New York Times article link provided. Lucas Arts Senior Producer for SWG Nancy MacIntyre clearly gave credit to Lucas Arts for the decision to change it.
You asked for links and they were provided. There is no direct evidence that LEC did anything other than ask for more subs. You have been provided direct proof from 3 upper management employees of SOE that they were the drivers of the changes not LEC. LEC's sin was approving the change.
Nowhere in Julio's interview you linked did he say LEC was the directly responsible for the changes. That interview was damage control. He used "we decided" and such. We being SOE and LEC. SOE the developer...LEC the approver. Once the decision was made to move forward with it they both assumed responsibility and righly so.
The evidence provided supports that SOE was the brainchild and LEC approved and supported it.
As for McIntyre her statement to the NTY was also made in response to the customer outcry...more damage control. She never said LEC made the decision. She clearly stated LEC supported the decision for xyz reasons.
If you want to lay it soley at the feet of LEC go right ahead that is certainly your preogative and agree they deserve some responsibility.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
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Where exactly in either of those articles does it say lucas arts forced soe to make these changes? Feel free to directly quote them, because everything I read on those do not come anywhere close to your claims. There was no blame assigned that I saw, except for the typical pr fluff of "we stand together".
I understand that LA made games, but they have never made an mmo and when they signed up with SOE, they were doing so due to soes reputation for being king of the hill, the mmo experts, the people with the most experience in making mmos. They didn't hire soe so that they could push them around and make all the decisions just to treat them like code monkeys. Even so, all of the nge faults can be seen echoed in other soe games where lucas arts has zero influence. This type of change has soes handwriting all over it.
Where exactly does Nancy "to much reading" MacIntyre lay full reposnsibility on the doorstep of lucas arts? I read the article and no where does she say anthing close to that. What she does say though is this
"We knew we were taking a significant risk with our existing player base, but we felt so strongly that we needed to make these changes for the sake of the game's long-term future that we all held hands, LucasArts and Sony, and went forward," Ms. MacIntyre said."
So again, feel free to directly quote the references you are making. Don't be shy. Show a quote where lucas arts states lucas arts was responsible for making soe do this.
Let me ask you a question, whos idea do you think it was to create and implement the combat upgrade? The one that was being talked about with SOE developers since shortly after release of the game? Revamping combat systems and overhauling games is practially a trademark of soe. The did it to almost every single system in EQ2. It was one of their first actions in the Matrix and yes they did it in SWG twice.
Everything from developer admittions all the way to past actions with their other games shows soe was in the creative and initiating drivers seat behind this. I have no doubt that lucas arts was upset with star wars galaxies, but can you blame them? Despite being a very creative and diverse game, it was a total failure in terms of functionality and programming. The soe developers delivered a half finished turd and I do not blame lucas arts one bit for being upset.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Where exactly in either of those articles does it say lucas arts forced soe to make these changes? Feel free to directly quote them, because everything I read on those do not come anywhere close to your claims. There was no blame assigned that I saw, except for the typical pr fluff of "we stand together".
I understand that LA made games, but they have never made an mmo and when they signed up with SOE, they were doing so due to soes reputation for being king of the hill, the mmo experts, the people with the most experience in making mmos. They didn't hire soe so that they could push them around and make all the decisions just to treat them like code monkeys. Even so, all of the nge faults can be seen echoed in other soe games where lucas arts has zero influence. This type of change has soes handwriting all over it.
Where exactly does Nancy "to much reading" MacIntyre lay full reposnsibility on the doorstep of lucas arts? I read the article and no where does she say anthing close to that. What she does say though is this
"We knew we were taking a significant risk with our existing player base, but we felt so strongly that we needed to make these changes for the sake of the game's long-term future that we all held hands, LucasArts and Sony, and went forward," Ms. MacIntyre said."
So again, feel free to directly quote the references you are making. Don't be shy. Show a quote where lucas arts states lucas arts was responsible for making soe do this.
Let me ask you a question, whos idea do you think it was to create and implement the combat upgrade? The one that was being talked about with SOE developers since shortly after release of the game? Revamping combat systems and overhauling games is practially a trademark of soe. The did it to almost every single system in EQ2. It was one of their first actions in the Matrix and yes they did it in SWG twice.
Everything from developer admittions all the way to past actions with their other games shows soe was in the creative and initiating drivers seat behind this. I have no doubt that lucas arts was upset with star wars galaxies, but can you blame them? Despite being a very creative and diverse game, it was a total failure in terms of functionality and programming. The soe developers delivered a half finished turd and I do not blame lucas arts one bit for being upset.
Yup, it is well known what happened. SOE mismanaged the game from day one. LEC was not happy, and told them to fix the problem. Dan Rubenfield and his team came up with the NGE, and sold the idea to LEC. LEC trusted SOE (big mistake). SOE then implemented the NGE. The NGE failed, miserably.
LEC messed up -- they TRUSTED SOE to know what they were doing, and to be acting in good faith in the best interests in their partnership. Bad move.
fishermage.blogspot.com
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