That is your opinion that the game was a turd.The launch was bonked but few mmo's launch without bonking it up. The game started with around 400k subbing and that dropped in half and was still losing ground. BUT WOW had launched by that point and grabbed a fair share of those subs. They (WOW) had 5 millions subs by then. SWG still had 200,000 people playing it when the NGE was made. But it was losing 10k a month in subs. It was a hardcore game catering to hardcore players. That wasnt what Lucas wanted so they were told to change the game to make it more simple. Your own links confirm that. "We were given the directive to make galaxies better." The NGE was a bad move on SOE's part we ALL said that the changes made were made by SOE and that they were wrong but the order to change the game to make it more casual friendly and simplify the game was Lucas all the way. That is just the truth. Like it or not.
Care to show where lucas arts said that? Please don't paraphrase. Please directly quote your sources words. No more inferring meaning and weaving your opinion in place of actual statements. Not a link to an entire article, but the actual statements showing the comments you claim exist. No where does it say that the statement of "We were given the directive to make galaxies better." came from lucas arts. You want to imply that it did, but it doesn't.
What you ignore from the post is the following:
We were asked to imagine something new and unique. To push it to the next level. Originally, it was specced as a tutorial. A tutorial paired with a new marketing push, new and grandiose relaunch that would recapture the magic that we missed when we first released.
But a tutorial wasn’t enough. We scrambled to come up with something more impressive.
We tested out a new combat system on a whim. I did a quick prototype and we discussed it internally.
The difference was the control scheme, not the rules. You clicked, You shot.
When we demonstrated it, the first comment was “Wooooah….”
And the producer left the room.
He came back shortly and was torn. He knew that we had to make the change. It was THAT much better.
We did a side by side comparison. We tried to play the old system. We couldn’t.
As you can see, the SWG developer team went beyond what was originally asked. They went beyond the concept of creating a new tutorial designed towards a marketing push. They created things on a whim which they then presented it to the producers AFTER it was created. The producer came back AFTER the changes were presented to him to make decisions. The producer could be the SOE producer or the Lucas Arts producer, but the fact is the swg team started the ball rolling.
As for my turd comment, I actually enjoyed swg GAMEPLAY very much. The PROGRAMMING was a turd and even soe has admitted the game was not finished. Just because some other games flopped on their launches does not make it acceptable for how swg released as can be shown by the amount of people who left. Pointing at other games that have "bonked" release is nothing short of deflecting the issue.
Why did the game start with 400k subscribers and steadily decline? Look at soes first big decision.
They moved almost the entire live team to work on the expansion instead of fixing the game. Soe asked the players what they wanted: combat revamp and fixing the current game or an expansion and the playerbase overwhelmingly chose the revamp. Soe agreed to work on fixing the live game, but as always they lied and started working on an expansion instead. Yet another example of soe ignoring the customers in favor of something that they think will have a financial reward. Their priority has always been to rush out expansions to get more money and ignore player opinions, even when they have massive bugs to deal with from their last expansions. See Everquests game boycott over the omens of war expansion before anyone tries to blame lucas arts for rushing expansions over fixing the game. Here is the same example of soe chosing expansion of fixing broken gameplay that resulted in a backfire. What did soe promise at the resulting player summit meeting? To listen to the playerbase....
You still have not shown your links to prove that lucas arts told soe to make the changes you blame lucas arts for. I doubt you can, because even the soe developers have admitted it was their doing. I am not dismissing lucas arts for their contributions, but blaming them as if soe was powerless goes against most of the history of soes actions and what the developers admitted to.
Originally posted by blueturtle13 Sorry to call you on that but that isnt true either. Lucas Arts isnt like EA that just publishes games. Lucas Arts was a game maker long before SWG. Here is a link from the Producer of SWG Julio Torres talking about why they made the changes (by the way he works for Lucas Arts NOT SOE. try again. http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/star-wars-galaxies-2005/667893p1.html And you obviously didnt read the New York Times article link provided. Lucas Arts Senior Producer for SWG Nancy MacIntyre clearly gave credit to Lucas Arts for the decision to change it.
Where exactly in either of those articles does it say lucas arts forced soe to make these changes? Feel free to directly quote them, because everything I read on those do not come anywhere close to your claims. There was no blame assigned that I saw, except for the typical pr fluff of "we stand together".
I understand that LA made games, but they have never made an mmo and when they signed up with SOE, they were doing so due to soes reputation for being king of the hill, the mmo experts, the people with the most experience in making mmos. They didn't hire soe so that they could push them around and make all the decisions just to treat them like code monkeys. Even so, all of the nge faults can be seen echoed in other soe games where lucas arts has zero influence. This type of change has soes handwriting all over it.
Where exactly does Nancy "to much reading" MacIntyre lay full reposnsibility on the doorstep of lucas arts? I read the article and no where does she say anthing close to that. What she does say though is this
"We knew we were taking a significant risk with our existing player base, but we felt so strongly that we needed to make these changes for the sake of the game's long-term future that we all held hands, LucasArts and Sony, and went forward," Ms. MacIntyre said."
So again, feel free to directly quote the references you are making. Don't be shy. Show a quote where lucas arts states lucas arts was responsible for making soe do this.
Let me ask you a question, whos idea do you think it was to create and implement the combat upgrade? The one that was being talked about with SOE developers since shortly after release of the game? Revamping combat systems and overhauling games is practially a trademark of soe. The did it to almost every single system in EQ2. It was one of their first actions in the Matrix and yes they did it in SWG twice.
Everything from developer admittions all the way to past actions with their other games shows soe was in the creative and initiating drivers seat behind this. I have no doubt that lucas arts was upset with star wars galaxies, but can you blame them? Despite being a very creative and diverse game, it was a total failure in terms of functionality and programming. The soe developers delivered a half finished turd and I do not blame lucas arts one bit for being upset.
Yup, it is well known what happened. SOE mismanaged the game from day one. LEC was not happy, and told them to fix the problem. Dan Rubenfield and his team came up with the NGE, and sold the idea to LEC. LEC trusted SOE (big mistake). SOE then implemented the NGE. The NGE failed, miserably.
LEC messed up -- they TRUSTED SOE to know what they were doing, and to be acting in good faith in the best interests in their partnership. Bad move.
I like that last part there. Basically shifts the blame off LEC and places it on SOE. The funny thing about a partnership is you both rise together you both fall together. This has nothing to do with trust, it just shows that either LEC didn't care or they have no business sense at all.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
You still dont get it do you? NOONE said it wasnt SOE's fault. NOONE. My point, again, is that if SOE screwed it up time and time again when does it stop being the developers fault and not the Producers fault? Lucas Arts was the real Producer. It is their IP. When it comes down to it they have final say over their property. They are ultimately responsible. It just is really that simple. To not blame Lucas Arts of wrong doing or not blaming them for more of the credit for NGE is just narrow minded. SOE can take the blame for the core game failure but Lucas is to blame for NGE. Either way the game was just not going to be a hit anymore after WOW launched. You cant possibly think that SOE was just allowed to do whatever they wanted to with the game and the IP with no input from Lucas Arts. It doesnt work that way in buisness and it makes no sense.
I do not for 1 second dismiss lucas arts from wrong doing. They approved what went on, they bought the cool aid that soe was selling to them. That makes them incompetent and greedy.
However if you get a company that has produced hits in the past telling you that this new plan they cooked up will get them millions of subscribers I can't dimiss that as being the catalyst for the whole situation. Soe sold lucas arts on a concept that is the crowning achievement in what not to do to an mmo. It is the single biggest example of how to ruin a game, your reputation and drive away players. None of this would have happened if the soe developers didn't go beyond what was asked of them and then actively campaign to make those changes.
I never said that soe was free to do whatever they want to and I know lucas had final say in whatever they want. That does not mean lucas is in the design room overseeing concepts and and soe cannot create ideas for approval on their own. Soe could create anything they wanted to and then submit it as proven above by the entire concept of the nge. Just because someone has finaly authority to say no, doesn't mean they will have perfect judgement and are immune to being sold on a terrible idea.
What was lucas arts supposed to do after soe continually screwed up? Fire them? Shut the game down? Give SWG to some other company? I'm sure the contract was protective both directions and lucas arts could not get out of it that easily as soe itself had millions invested in the game also.
Also why is lucas arts at fault for soes inability to deliver anything they promised? When did the failures of a company become the fault of someone else? Lucas arts failed to pick the right company to produce a hit game and they bought into the greedy idea of screwing over their customers. Shame on them. Had they picked bioware or someone else in the first place odds are none of this would have happened. Remove soe from the picture and its pretty hard to see lucas arts as the big reason for these things happening isn't it?
Yup, it is well known what happened. SOE mismanaged the game from day one. LEC was not happy, and told them to fix the problem. Dan Rubenfield and his team came up with the NGE, and sold the idea to LEC. LEC trusted SOE (big mistake). SOE then implemented the NGE. The NGE failed, miserably. LEC messed up -- they TRUSTED SOE to know what they were doing, and to be acting in good faith in the best interests in their partnership. Bad move.
I like that last part there. Basically shifts the blame off LEC and places it on SOE. The funny thing about a partnership is you both rise together you both fall together. This has nothing to do with trust, it just shows that either LEC didn't care or they have no business sense at all.
I think is shows that lucas arts was just as willing to screw over the players when presented with the picture of the nge pulling in warcraft like numbers. Both companies suck for doing this, but soe did dream this up and sold it for approval. The lucas team was just greedy, ignorant and niave enough to go endorse it.
Right, which is why, for the NGE, I blame Lucas Arts more. After SOE proved to not deliver on what was expected of them the first time it is just dumb buisness sense to count on them again to do it right. Lucas Arts has made bad move after bad move with their IP and this is another example of that. Time will tell if giving it over to Bioware was the right thing. Based on their track record (Biowares that is) it seems to be.
i dont think anyone here ever denied of LECs decision making responsibility when it came to the nge.
what has been argued is that the idea, planning, development and implementation of the NGE came from SOE. of course LEC was aware they even marketed the game.
you have the links already what are you trying to prove here?
Originally posted by blueturtle13 Sorry to call you on that but that isnt true either. Lucas Arts isnt like EA that just publishes games. Lucas Arts was a game maker long before SWG. Here is a link from the Producer of SWG Julio Torres talking about why they made the changes (by the way he works for Lucas Arts NOT SOE. try again. http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/star-wars-galaxies-2005/667893p1.html And you obviously didnt read the New York Times article link provided. Lucas Arts Senior Producer for SWG Nancy MacIntyre clearly gave credit to Lucas Arts for the decision to change it.
Where exactly in either of those articles does it say lucas arts forced soe to make these changes? Feel free to directly quote them, because everything I read on those do not come anywhere close to your claims. There was no blame assigned that I saw, except for the typical pr fluff of "we stand together".
I understand that LA made games, but they have never made an mmo and when they signed up with SOE, they were doing so due to soes reputation for being king of the hill, the mmo experts, the people with the most experience in making mmos. They didn't hire soe so that they could push them around and make all the decisions just to treat them like code monkeys. Even so, all of the nge faults can be seen echoed in other soe games where lucas arts has zero influence. This type of change has soes handwriting all over it.
Where exactly does Nancy "to much reading" MacIntyre lay full reposnsibility on the doorstep of lucas arts? I read the article and no where does she say anthing close to that. What she does say though is this
"We knew we were taking a significant risk with our existing player base, but we felt so strongly that we needed to make these changes for the sake of the game's long-term future that we all held hands, LucasArts and Sony, and went forward," Ms. MacIntyre said."
So again, feel free to directly quote the references you are making. Don't be shy. Show a quote where lucas arts states lucas arts was responsible for making soe do this.
Let me ask you a question, whos idea do you think it was to create and implement the combat upgrade? The one that was being talked about with SOE developers since shortly after release of the game? Revamping combat systems and overhauling games is practially a trademark of soe. The did it to almost every single system in EQ2. It was one of their first actions in the Matrix and yes they did it in SWG twice.
Everything from developer admittions all the way to past actions with their other games shows soe was in the creative and initiating drivers seat behind this. I have no doubt that lucas arts was upset with star wars galaxies, but can you blame them? Despite being a very creative and diverse game, it was a total failure in terms of functionality and programming. The soe developers delivered a half finished turd and I do not blame lucas arts one bit for being upset.
Yup, it is well known what happened. SOE mismanaged the game from day one. LEC was not happy, and told them to fix the problem. Dan Rubenfield and his team came up with the NGE, and sold the idea to LEC. LEC trusted SOE (big mistake). SOE then implemented the NGE. The NGE failed, miserably.
LEC messed up -- they TRUSTED SOE to know what they were doing, and to be acting in good faith in the best interests in their partnership. Bad move.
I like that last part there. Basically shifts the blame off LEC and places it on SOE. The funny thing about a partnership is you both rise together you both fall together. This has nothing to do with trust, it just shows that either LEC didn't care or they have no business sense at all.
No, it places blame where it belongs. Not all partnerships are the same. LEC provided the IP, SOE was supposed to provide a good game. SOE were supposed to be the experts in making MMORPGs, and LEC trusted them to do so. LEC was wrong in trusting them to know their part of the job.
LEC definitely failed, by picking a bad group to partner with.
Right, which is why, for the NGE, I blame Lucas Arts more. After SOE proved to not deliver on what was expected of them the first time it is just dumb buisness sense to count on them again to do it right. Lucas Arts has made bad move after bad move with their IP and this is another example of that. Time will tell if giving it over to Bioware was the right thing. Based on their track record (Biowares that is) it seems to be.
So basically you are saying that LEC should have shut the game down pre-CU instead of trusting SOE to make it better, because SOE had been doing a bad job. Okay, I GUESS that's a reasonable argument...sorta.
Yup, it is well known what happened. SOE mismanaged the game from day one. LEC was not happy, and told them to fix the problem. Dan Rubenfield and his team came up with the NGE, and sold the idea to LEC. LEC trusted SOE (big mistake). SOE then implemented the NGE. The NGE failed, miserably. LEC messed up -- they TRUSTED SOE to know what they were doing, and to be acting in good faith in the best interests in their partnership. Bad move.
I like that last part there. Basically shifts the blame off LEC and places it on SOE. The funny thing about a partnership is you both rise together you both fall together. This has nothing to do with trust, it just shows that either LEC didn't care or they have no business sense at all.
I think is shows that lucas arts was just as willing to screw over the players when presented with the picture of the nge pulling in warcraft like numbers. Both companies suck for doing this, but soe did dream this up and sold it for approval. The lucas team was just greedy, ignorant and niave enough to go endorse it.
Who's on first? Gotta love this circle of non-arguments that Arc has drawn out. Good work, Arc!
It's kind of funny really lol. I finally decide to challenge the notion that Sony hasn't done anything unethical, provide some evidence to support my point and get all kinds of interesting responses.
By simply debating a point (and nothing more), I've now heard that everyone is equally unethical, so it must be o.k., LEC made them do it so it's not really their fault, that I'm trolling, baiting, mentally ill, vengeful, calling people out and picking on nice people. This whole thread is a study in the sociology of MMO forums lol.
Sorry to disappoint some folks, but I'm really just debating the point that Sony has never done anything unethical. I think they have. We've heard statements like this for years now, and I finally decided to respond.
I've had my eyes opened to something positive through this btw. I didn't really know that the FTC was keeping such close tabs on Sony. Now that I've seen how they've been repeatedly investigated and fined and/or sued successfully, I feel that I don't need to be such a consumer advocate as a hobby. It seems like "real" consumer advocates are doing a very good job, along with the authorities. I found that encouraging. I'm also aware that legislation is in the works to provide even more tools to help protect consumers of online entertainment. I think that's a good thing. I'm a happy gamer ^_^.
You and your brethren arnt very good at the radical conspiracy theory thing, how long have your ilk been trying to get SOE banned from existence and Warhammer shut down now? Perhaps you should try a new hobby? I know, how about acutally playing a game?
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
You and your brethren arnt very good at the radical conspiracy theory thing, how long have your ilk been trying to get SOE banned from existence and Warhammer shut down now? Perhaps you should try a new hobby? I know, how about acutally playing a game?
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
Actually, that was allowed to die about five days and as many pages ago, until your current attempt to bring it back to life.
You and your brethren arnt very good at the radical conspiracy theory thing, how long have your ilk been trying to get SOE banned from existence and Warhammer shut down now? Perhaps you should try a new hobby? I know, how about acutally playing a game?
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
Actually, that was allowed to die about five days and as many pages ago, until your current attempt to bring it back to life.
Really? What company are you crusading against now? Please let us know as we are all on pins and needles awaiting your uncovering of the next scandal.
I am not crusading against anyone, and never have been. I am enjoying a conversation, and you are enjoying flaming people and making fun of them. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
You and your brethren arnt very good at the radical conspiracy theory thing, how long have your ilk been trying to get SOE banned from existence and Warhammer shut down now? Perhaps you should try a new hobby? I know, how about acutally playing a game?
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
Actually, that was allowed to die about five days and as many pages ago, until your current attempt to bring it back to life.
Really? What company are you crusading against now? Please let us know as we are all on pins and needles awaiting your uncovering of the next scandal.
I am not crusading against anyone, and never have been. I am enjoying a conversation, and you are enjoying flaming people and making fun of them. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Some people make it very easy to make fun of them as their opinion of themselves is so high that its just too much fun to pass up.
You and your brethren arnt very good at the radical conspiracy theory thing, how long have your ilk been trying to get SOE banned from existence and Warhammer shut down now? Perhaps you should try a new hobby? I know, how about acutally playing a game?
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
Actually, that was allowed to die about five days and as many pages ago, until your current attempt to bring it back to life.
Really? What company are you crusading against now? Please let us know as we are all on pins and needles awaiting your uncovering of the next scandal.
I am not crusading against anyone, and never have been. I am enjoying a conversation, and you are enjoying flaming people and making fun of them. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Some people make it very easy to make fun of them as their opinion of themselves is so high that its just too much fun to pass up.
I guess some people enjoy making fun of what they consider easy targets, while others like a real challenge. Still others find no need to engage in such things, and prefer to talk about subjects and not make fun of people at all.
You and your brethren arnt very good at the radical conspiracy theory thing, how long have your ilk been trying to get SOE banned from existence and Warhammer shut down now? Perhaps you should try a new hobby? I know, how about acutally playing a game?
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
Actually, that was allowed to die about five days and as many pages ago, until your current attempt to bring it back to life.
Really? What company are you crusading against now? Please let us know as we are all on pins and needles awaiting your uncovering of the next scandal.
I am not crusading against anyone, and never have been. I am enjoying a conversation, and you are enjoying flaming people and making fun of them. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Some people make it very easy to make fun of them as their opinion of themselves is so high that its just too much fun to pass up.
I guess some people enjoy making fun of what they consider easy targets, while others like a real challenge. Still others find no need to engage in such things, and prefer to talk about subjects and not make fun of people at all.
As I said, different strokes.
Like the challenge of uncovering all the plots in the game industry?
You and your brethren arnt very good at the radical conspiracy theory thing, how long have your ilk been trying to get SOE banned from existence and Warhammer shut down now? Perhaps you should try a new hobby? I know, how about acutally playing a game?
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
Actually, that was allowed to die about five days and as many pages ago, until your current attempt to bring it back to life.
Really? What company are you crusading against now? Please let us know as we are all on pins and needles awaiting your uncovering of the next scandal.
I am not crusading against anyone, and never have been. I am enjoying a conversation, and you are enjoying flaming people and making fun of them. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Some people make it very easy to make fun of them as their opinion of themselves is so high that its just too much fun to pass up.
I guess some people enjoy making fun of what they consider easy targets, while others like a real challenge. Still others find no need to engage in such things, and prefer to talk about subjects and not make fun of people at all.
As I said, different strokes.
Like the challenge of uncovering all the plots in the game industry?
No, like the challenge of having a nice friendly discussion on the internet, without immature, insecure people jumping in and hijacking that conversation with flames and childish attacks.
Some of us learned from our parents that making fun of people is wrong, whether on the internet or in real life. Some of us learned this over the years ourselves. Others never learn such things.
The challenge is navigating through that soup of immaturity.
You and your brethren arnt very good at the radical conspiracy theory thing, how long have your ilk been trying to get SOE banned from existence and Warhammer shut down now? Perhaps you should try a new hobby? I know, how about acutally playing a game?
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
Like the challenge of uncovering all the plots in the game industry?
As I pointed out in the orange/pink highlighted text in your post 7 days ago, you are the one talking about conspiracies and cloak and dagger stuff.
Beyond that all you have to offer is insults and ridicule in place of any actual discussion of actual events.
Comments
Care to show where lucas arts said that? Please don't paraphrase. Please directly quote your sources words. No more inferring meaning and weaving your opinion in place of actual statements. Not a link to an entire article, but the actual statements showing the comments you claim exist. No where does it say that the statement of "We were given the directive to make galaxies better." came from lucas arts. You want to imply that it did, but it doesn't.
What you ignore from the post is the following:
We were asked to imagine something new and unique. To push it to the next level. Originally, it was specced as a tutorial. A tutorial paired with a new marketing push, new and grandiose relaunch that would recapture the magic that we missed when we first released.
But a tutorial wasn’t enough. We scrambled to come up with something more impressive.
We tested out a new combat system on a whim. I did a quick prototype and we discussed it internally.
The difference was the control scheme, not the rules. You clicked, You shot.
When we demonstrated it, the first comment was “Wooooah….”
And the producer left the room.
He came back shortly and was torn. He knew that we had to make the change. It was THAT much better.
We did a side by side comparison. We tried to play the old system. We couldn’t.
As you can see, the SWG developer team went beyond what was originally asked. They went beyond the concept of creating a new tutorial designed towards a marketing push. They created things on a whim which they then presented it to the producers AFTER it was created. The producer came back AFTER the changes were presented to him to make decisions. The producer could be the SOE producer or the Lucas Arts producer, but the fact is the swg team started the ball rolling.
As for my turd comment, I actually enjoyed swg GAMEPLAY very much. The PROGRAMMING was a turd and even soe has admitted the game was not finished. Just because some other games flopped on their launches does not make it acceptable for how swg released as can be shown by the amount of people who left. Pointing at other games that have "bonked" release is nothing short of deflecting the issue.
Why did the game start with 400k subscribers and steadily decline? Look at soes first big decision.
They moved almost the entire live team to work on the expansion instead of fixing the game. Soe asked the players what they wanted: combat revamp and fixing the current game or an expansion and the playerbase overwhelmingly chose the revamp. Soe agreed to work on fixing the live game, but as always they lied and started working on an expansion instead. Yet another example of soe ignoring the customers in favor of something that they think will have a financial reward. Their priority has always been to rush out expansions to get more money and ignore player opinions, even when they have massive bugs to deal with from their last expansions. See Everquests game boycott over the omens of war expansion before anyone tries to blame lucas arts for rushing expansions over fixing the game. Here is the same example of soe chosing expansion of fixing broken gameplay that resulted in a backfire. What did soe promise at the resulting player summit meeting? To listen to the playerbase....
You still have not shown your links to prove that lucas arts told soe to make the changes you blame lucas arts for. I doubt you can, because even the soe developers have admitted it was their doing. I am not dismissing lucas arts for their contributions, but blaming them as if soe was powerless goes against most of the history of soes actions and what the developers admitted to.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Where exactly in either of those articles does it say lucas arts forced soe to make these changes? Feel free to directly quote them, because everything I read on those do not come anywhere close to your claims. There was no blame assigned that I saw, except for the typical pr fluff of "we stand together".
I understand that LA made games, but they have never made an mmo and when they signed up with SOE, they were doing so due to soes reputation for being king of the hill, the mmo experts, the people with the most experience in making mmos. They didn't hire soe so that they could push them around and make all the decisions just to treat them like code monkeys. Even so, all of the nge faults can be seen echoed in other soe games where lucas arts has zero influence. This type of change has soes handwriting all over it.
Where exactly does Nancy "to much reading" MacIntyre lay full reposnsibility on the doorstep of lucas arts? I read the article and no where does she say anthing close to that. What she does say though is this
"We knew we were taking a significant risk with our existing player base, but we felt so strongly that we needed to make these changes for the sake of the game's long-term future that we all held hands, LucasArts and Sony, and went forward," Ms. MacIntyre said."
So again, feel free to directly quote the references you are making. Don't be shy. Show a quote where lucas arts states lucas arts was responsible for making soe do this.
Let me ask you a question, whos idea do you think it was to create and implement the combat upgrade? The one that was being talked about with SOE developers since shortly after release of the game? Revamping combat systems and overhauling games is practially a trademark of soe. The did it to almost every single system in EQ2. It was one of their first actions in the Matrix and yes they did it in SWG twice.
Everything from developer admittions all the way to past actions with their other games shows soe was in the creative and initiating drivers seat behind this. I have no doubt that lucas arts was upset with star wars galaxies, but can you blame them? Despite being a very creative and diverse game, it was a total failure in terms of functionality and programming. The soe developers delivered a half finished turd and I do not blame lucas arts one bit for being upset.
Yup, it is well known what happened. SOE mismanaged the game from day one. LEC was not happy, and told them to fix the problem. Dan Rubenfield and his team came up with the NGE, and sold the idea to LEC. LEC trusted SOE (big mistake). SOE then implemented the NGE. The NGE failed, miserably.
LEC messed up -- they TRUSTED SOE to know what they were doing, and to be acting in good faith in the best interests in their partnership. Bad move.
I like that last part there. Basically shifts the blame off LEC and places it on SOE. The funny thing about a partnership is you both rise together you both fall together. This has nothing to do with trust, it just shows that either LEC didn't care or they have no business sense at all.
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You wouldn't understand
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I do not for 1 second dismiss lucas arts from wrong doing. They approved what went on, they bought the cool aid that soe was selling to them. That makes them incompetent and greedy.
However if you get a company that has produced hits in the past telling you that this new plan they cooked up will get them millions of subscribers I can't dimiss that as being the catalyst for the whole situation. Soe sold lucas arts on a concept that is the crowning achievement in what not to do to an mmo. It is the single biggest example of how to ruin a game, your reputation and drive away players. None of this would have happened if the soe developers didn't go beyond what was asked of them and then actively campaign to make those changes.
I never said that soe was free to do whatever they want to and I know lucas had final say in whatever they want. That does not mean lucas is in the design room overseeing concepts and and soe cannot create ideas for approval on their own. Soe could create anything they wanted to and then submit it as proven above by the entire concept of the nge. Just because someone has finaly authority to say no, doesn't mean they will have perfect judgement and are immune to being sold on a terrible idea.
What was lucas arts supposed to do after soe continually screwed up? Fire them? Shut the game down? Give SWG to some other company? I'm sure the contract was protective both directions and lucas arts could not get out of it that easily as soe itself had millions invested in the game also.
Also why is lucas arts at fault for soes inability to deliver anything they promised? When did the failures of a company become the fault of someone else? Lucas arts failed to pick the right company to produce a hit game and they bought into the greedy idea of screwing over their customers. Shame on them. Had they picked bioware or someone else in the first place odds are none of this would have happened. Remove soe from the picture and its pretty hard to see lucas arts as the big reason for these things happening isn't it?
I like that last part there. Basically shifts the blame off LEC and places it on SOE. The funny thing about a partnership is you both rise together you both fall together. This has nothing to do with trust, it just shows that either LEC didn't care or they have no business sense at all.
I think is shows that lucas arts was just as willing to screw over the players when presented with the picture of the nge pulling in warcraft like numbers. Both companies suck for doing this, but soe did dream this up and sold it for approval. The lucas team was just greedy, ignorant and niave enough to go endorse it.
i dont think anyone here ever denied of LECs decision making responsibility when it came to the nge.
what has been argued is that the idea, planning, development and implementation of the NGE came from SOE. of course LEC was aware they even marketed the game.
you have the links already what are you trying to prove here?
Where exactly in either of those articles does it say lucas arts forced soe to make these changes? Feel free to directly quote them, because everything I read on those do not come anywhere close to your claims. There was no blame assigned that I saw, except for the typical pr fluff of "we stand together".
I understand that LA made games, but they have never made an mmo and when they signed up with SOE, they were doing so due to soes reputation for being king of the hill, the mmo experts, the people with the most experience in making mmos. They didn't hire soe so that they could push them around and make all the decisions just to treat them like code monkeys. Even so, all of the nge faults can be seen echoed in other soe games where lucas arts has zero influence. This type of change has soes handwriting all over it.
Where exactly does Nancy "to much reading" MacIntyre lay full reposnsibility on the doorstep of lucas arts? I read the article and no where does she say anthing close to that. What she does say though is this
"We knew we were taking a significant risk with our existing player base, but we felt so strongly that we needed to make these changes for the sake of the game's long-term future that we all held hands, LucasArts and Sony, and went forward," Ms. MacIntyre said."
So again, feel free to directly quote the references you are making. Don't be shy. Show a quote where lucas arts states lucas arts was responsible for making soe do this.
Let me ask you a question, whos idea do you think it was to create and implement the combat upgrade? The one that was being talked about with SOE developers since shortly after release of the game? Revamping combat systems and overhauling games is practially a trademark of soe. The did it to almost every single system in EQ2. It was one of their first actions in the Matrix and yes they did it in SWG twice.
Everything from developer admittions all the way to past actions with their other games shows soe was in the creative and initiating drivers seat behind this. I have no doubt that lucas arts was upset with star wars galaxies, but can you blame them? Despite being a very creative and diverse game, it was a total failure in terms of functionality and programming. The soe developers delivered a half finished turd and I do not blame lucas arts one bit for being upset.
Yup, it is well known what happened. SOE mismanaged the game from day one. LEC was not happy, and told them to fix the problem. Dan Rubenfield and his team came up with the NGE, and sold the idea to LEC. LEC trusted SOE (big mistake). SOE then implemented the NGE. The NGE failed, miserably.
LEC messed up -- they TRUSTED SOE to know what they were doing, and to be acting in good faith in the best interests in their partnership. Bad move.
I like that last part there. Basically shifts the blame off LEC and places it on SOE. The funny thing about a partnership is you both rise together you both fall together. This has nothing to do with trust, it just shows that either LEC didn't care or they have no business sense at all.
No, it places blame where it belongs. Not all partnerships are the same. LEC provided the IP, SOE was supposed to provide a good game. SOE were supposed to be the experts in making MMORPGs, and LEC trusted them to do so. LEC was wrong in trusting them to know their part of the job.
LEC definitely failed, by picking a bad group to partner with.
fishermage.blogspot.com
So basically you are saying that LEC should have shut the game down pre-CU instead of trusting SOE to make it better, because SOE had been doing a bad job. Okay, I GUESS that's a reasonable argument...sorta.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I like that last part there. Basically shifts the blame off LEC and places it on SOE. The funny thing about a partnership is you both rise together you both fall together. This has nothing to do with trust, it just shows that either LEC didn't care or they have no business sense at all.
I think is shows that lucas arts was just as willing to screw over the players when presented with the picture of the nge pulling in warcraft like numbers. Both companies suck for doing this, but soe did dream this up and sold it for approval. The lucas team was just greedy, ignorant and niave enough to go endorse it.
My thoughts exactly.
fishermage.blogspot.com
So now we have the next tactic of the apologists: It was LEC that FORCED the NGE. I guess we have come full circle yet again.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Who's on first?
Gotta love this circle of non-arguments that Arc has drawn out.
Good work, Arc!
fishermage.blogspot.com
It's kind of funny really lol. I finally decide to challenge the notion that Sony hasn't done anything unethical, provide some evidence to support my point and get all kinds of interesting responses.
By simply debating a point (and nothing more), I've now heard that everyone is equally unethical, so it must be o.k., LEC made them do it so it's not really their fault, that I'm trolling, baiting, mentally ill, vengeful, calling people out and picking on nice people. This whole thread is a study in the sociology of MMO forums lol.
Sorry to disappoint some folks, but I'm really just debating the point that Sony has never done anything unethical. I think they have. We've heard statements like this for years now, and I finally decided to respond.
I've had my eyes opened to something positive through this btw. I didn't really know that the FTC was keeping such close tabs on Sony. Now that I've seen how they've been repeatedly investigated and fined and/or sued successfully, I feel that I don't need to be such a consumer advocate as a hobby. It seems like "real" consumer advocates are doing a very good job, along with the authorities. I found that encouraging. I'm also aware that legislation is in the works to provide even more tools to help protect consumers of online entertainment. I think that's a good thing. I'm a happy gamer ^_^.
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
Actually, that was allowed to die about five days and as many pages ago, until your current attempt to bring it back to life.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I was thinking the same thing earlier.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
LOL!
Sony changed THEIR game. You don't like it. MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE. It's just a game!
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
Actually, that was allowed to die about five days and as many pages ago, until your current attempt to bring it back to life.
Really? What company are you crusading against now? Please let us know as we are all on pins and needles awaiting your uncovering of the next scandal.
I am not crusading against anyone, and never have been. I am enjoying a conversation, and you are enjoying flaming people and making fun of them. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
Actually, that was allowed to die about five days and as many pages ago, until your current attempt to bring it back to life.
Really? What company are you crusading against now? Please let us know as we are all on pins and needles awaiting your uncovering of the next scandal.
I am not crusading against anyone, and never have been. I am enjoying a conversation, and you are enjoying flaming people and making fun of them. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Some people make it very easy to make fun of them as their opinion of themselves is so high that its just too much fun to pass up.
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
Actually, that was allowed to die about five days and as many pages ago, until your current attempt to bring it back to life.
Really? What company are you crusading against now? Please let us know as we are all on pins and needles awaiting your uncovering of the next scandal.
I am not crusading against anyone, and never have been. I am enjoying a conversation, and you are enjoying flaming people and making fun of them. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Some people make it very easy to make fun of them as their opinion of themselves is so high that its just too much fun to pass up.
I guess some people enjoy making fun of what they consider easy targets, while others like a real challenge. Still others find no need to engage in such things, and prefer to talk about subjects and not make fun of people at all.
As I said, different strokes.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
Actually, that was allowed to die about five days and as many pages ago, until your current attempt to bring it back to life.
Really? What company are you crusading against now? Please let us know as we are all on pins and needles awaiting your uncovering of the next scandal.
I am not crusading against anyone, and never have been. I am enjoying a conversation, and you are enjoying flaming people and making fun of them. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Some people make it very easy to make fun of them as their opinion of themselves is so high that its just too much fun to pass up.
I guess some people enjoy making fun of what they consider easy targets, while others like a real challenge. Still others find no need to engage in such things, and prefer to talk about subjects and not make fun of people at all.
As I said, different strokes.
Like the challenge of uncovering all the plots in the game industry?
I am always glad to see grandpagamer ring in. Maybe it is the name but I have always seen him post in a simple thoughtful way. Much like the way I remember my own grandpa who has been gone about 40 years now. I may not always agree with grandpagamer but I alway appreciate the way he presents his thoughts.
Good to see you as well Ecco. Ive been amazed lately at the Petition to close Warhammer thread and sure enough it finally died out and now they are after SOE again lol and not only SOE but you as well it seems. Well take heart my friend if your upsetting the trolls this badly you must be doing something right. Hang in there.
Good to see grandpagamer come into the thread and post a bunch of insults and conjecture? Wow I am pleased also! Great discussion tactics that the two of you pat yourselves on the back for. Congratulations to both of you for being objective and discussing the people who post and not the issues that are posted. Well done sirs!
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
There used to be discussion filled with examples, facts and occurances in the mmo world with opinions on both sides. Now what I see from the supporters is nothing more than baseless rationalization and personal insults while they dance around highfiving each other and do the exact poor behavior that they accuse everyone else of. It is mind boggling to watch.
When did picking apart the person posting an relevent issue replace discussion of opinions and examples of the actual topic?
Woo Hoo . We must have struck a chord Ecco they just wont let this one die lmao
Actually, that was allowed to die about five days and as many pages ago, until your current attempt to bring it back to life.
Really? What company are you crusading against now? Please let us know as we are all on pins and needles awaiting your uncovering of the next scandal.
I am not crusading against anyone, and never have been. I am enjoying a conversation, and you are enjoying flaming people and making fun of them. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Some people make it very easy to make fun of them as their opinion of themselves is so high that its just too much fun to pass up.
I guess some people enjoy making fun of what they consider easy targets, while others like a real challenge. Still others find no need to engage in such things, and prefer to talk about subjects and not make fun of people at all.
As I said, different strokes.
Like the challenge of uncovering all the plots in the game industry?
No, like the challenge of having a nice friendly discussion on the internet, without immature, insecure people jumping in and hijacking that conversation with flames and childish attacks.
Some of us learned from our parents that making fun of people is wrong, whether on the internet or in real life. Some of us learned this over the years ourselves. Others never learn such things.
The challenge is navigating through that soup of immaturity.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Grandpa, read the orange highlighted accusation where you paint the haters as being conspiracy theorists. Now read the pink highlight where you spew the exact same conspiracy nonsense that you are complaining about. Look out everyone! The soe haters are focusing on warhammer! Anyone without a shining opinion must be a soe hater! They will be coming for your game next! run run run!
Like the challenge of uncovering all the plots in the game industry?
As I pointed out in the orange/pink highlighted text in your post 7 days ago, you are the one talking about conspiracies and cloak and dagger stuff.
Beyond that all you have to offer is insults and ridicule in place of any actual discussion of actual events.