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Bioware needs to stop messing around and admit TOR is going to be a Co-RPG.
JGMIII
Member Posts: 1,282
Come on guys! Quests, multiple endings, Henchmen, Each class starting on it's own planet? This isnt a MMO.
I'll be honest I really don't want it to be, I'm looking forward to a Single player RPG to kill all other single player RPG but to toss in MMO elements like global chat, Auction houses and crafting. Maybe some Instanced storyline pvp also (like massive battles think AV in WoW)
This game is so heavy on the storyline that its going to run on rails even worse then the most hardcore themepark games.
I'm saying it now when this game releases its going to be a smashing success but the people on this forum won't consider it a MMO just like they do for Guildwars.
There's nothing wrong with a Crpg imo, we need a new one to play tbh. Havent had a nice one since GW released what five years ago. If you don't think its going to be a heavily main player focused storyline like a SP rpg just wait. Ill be Necroing this post when the game releases just to tell you how much fun im having and how glad I am that we have a new awesome game to play.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
Comments
Does Grand Theft Auto "run on rails"? Does Fallout 3? Are either MMOs?
My first instinct is to say that it will be more like LotRO instead of Guild Wars, but BioWare insists that nothing like this has been done before, so I prefer NOT to speculate until I actually see the game. Will it be "the next big thing?" I dunno, but it's freakin' BioWare here, not Bob's MMO co. inc. I seriously doubt it's going to turn out horrible no matter what path the devs have taken it.
I agree with you though. This game is going to be a blast. I've been waiting on "the next KOTOR" since KOTOR 1, and this is shaping up to be the closest we're going to get MMO or not.
mbe ur right, mbe ur wrong, wait for more information.
I seriously hope this won't be a single player experience with a monthly fee attached to it is what they mean when they say "something like this has never been done before". Then it doesn't matter how awesome the game is, that's taking it further than even i can accept.
Time will tell
I hope it *is* a fundamentally single-player experience with a monthly fee attached. The number one thing preventing truly massive and deep RPGs from being developed is the "pay once" revenue model. A developer cannot responsibly make a game with more than two major story paths, because it simply won't sell enough copies beyond a two path game to pay for the extra development. If, on the other hand, customers continue to pay $15.00 a month until they have consumed all the content they want, a developer is free to create numerous deep, rich story paths, and continue to add to them over time through the use of the continuous revenue stream. If BioWare manages to do this right, it will be the most revolutionary thing to happen to CRPG gaming since the release of Baldur's Gate II, and may single-handedly reverse the trend of steadily more lackluster and uninspired PC games.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Maybe the game wont have a monthly pay model?
Maybe you will pay once and then pay for additional chapters as they release?
I think people need to think outside the box. We already have enough games that play exactly the same, let this one be different.
This forum seems to dislike the Single player focus with a Coop option but tbh I hope it turns out that way.
Also whoever said Fallout 3 and GTA4 dont run on rails your wrong. they do they just have side missions here and there. but the main story is on rails just like everyother sp rpg.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
Bethesda and Rockstar games certainly run on rails, but that isn't really a fair description of BioWare games. In Bethesda games, Rockstar games, and pretty much all released MMOs, you have two choices: do a given quest series, or don't do it. If you choose to do it, it plays one way. Period. In BioWare games the majority of quests have some kind of choice involved. The basic structure may be the same, but the flavor is very different, with multiple outcomes. SWTOR will probably be the first MMO with quests that you can play more than once and not be doing *exactly* the same thing every time.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Big so what to this post let's go through this now
M.M.O.=Massively multiplayer online game.
Massive=a large game universe/world and with giving not only a large world but mulitple STOR fit's that bill.
Multiplayer=Multiple people playing alongside one another in this massive world as far as I know again check.
Online=The game is played and hosted through an online server sponsored by the devs check again.
I've never heard the term crpg but this whole stupid argument is akin to arguing over wether an ep qualifies as an lp who really cares?
Are you telling me you play all of your favorite games because they are called mmos?Do you think that playing mmos make you cool?
I want a fun game they seem to be making that and they seem to be making it within the bounds of what I've listed above as what an mmo is I personally don't care what your or anyones opinion is as far as is it a true mmo.
Listening to most of you people who make this silly argument to strip lot's of great games of the mmo title it makes you actually wonder if you are right and actual mmos just suck just as most of the folks who come on these boards and complain about non issues like this.
Also you guys have to realize that the membership of these boards is nothing near a true representation of the mmo nor gaming community does what the people who post on these boards epinions matter that much to you?
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
As long as I'm not stuck in a solo instance for the majority of the game I consider it an MMO. Massive (to me) meaning the size of the world, and the amount of players. It obviously qualifies for the massive part. It's multiplayer, because it's online, so the whole "MMO" part is taken care of. And then it seems to be an RPG, so what do we have here? A MMORPG.
I don't care one way or another as long as the game is great. I just don't want to pay a monthly fee for singleplayer content. We don't know yet what kind of model they will be using but as far as i am concerned it's a nay for me if they decide to go ahead and charge a monthly rate for that. I'm a fan but not an idiot...it doesn't matter if that price will be 5 or 15 a month.
I see this a lot. Not saying the game is going to be bad or good, but its not like Bioware actually has mmo experience. Take Bioware's inexperience and throw in some Lucas and you've got a greater possibility for a horrible game than you do for a great game, if only because most new games aren't great.
Best Advice for trying a new MMO: Ignore the hype, wait til 6 months after launch and a free trial.
I tend to agree.
With Guild Wars you spent most of your time in instanced areas. I don't mind instances but I don't want to spend most of my time in them and only visit populated areas between missions.
The MMORPG genre is evolving, however, and we're likely to see new and unexpected variations of it compared to the classic designs.
See, the problem is that we've come to expect such vanilla ways of doing things in an MMO. Its time to expect more. They are doing things a different way. Its about time somebody in this genre tried something new instead of having us play clones of other games with different graphics.
I'm willing to give them a chance, how about you?
Absolutely. 6 months after launch and with a free trial.
I pretty much expect nothing more than a Neverwinter Nights style module with just a bigger player capacity. A full blown mmorpg, from what I've read so far, SW:ToR will not be.
Bioware has a track record of making great games. I'm not concerned at all.
They havent let us down yet, ever! Every game they have made that I have played has been brilliant. Maybee this is the game we all need to make us loose ourselves again and recapture somthing from a genre which is fast becoming stagnent. Or it could be another load of disapointing shit! Either way I couldn't give a crap, im very much looking forward 2 it. Long time reader first time poster, soz about spelling, upside down drunk.
One the one hand I have great trust in Bioware. But on the other... seriously I think if this rumors are only halfway true this game is SO going to sink. They will sell lotsa boxes and then drop like AoC. I just dont think people will pay subscriptions for a single player game with a tiny online mode, at least not for long. They will rush through the story one or two times and then what?
Sorry, but I just dont see a lasting market for such a concept. My hope is, that most of that is the usual PR blah blah, like every other MMO before.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I see this a lot. Not saying the game is going to be bad or good, but its not like Bioware actually has mmo experience. Take Bioware's inexperience and throw in some Lucas and you've got a greater possibility for a horrible game than you do for a great game, if only because most new games aren't great.
Best Advice for trying a new MMO: Ignore the hype, wait til 6 months after launch and a free trial.
What was Blizzard's MMO experience prior to launching WoW? Lack of experience in online games is a *good* thing, because it means they aren't shackled to outdated and counter-productive ideas of what an MMOG "should" be. In fact, the Blizzard/BioWare comparison is the best one we can use in predicting the probable success of SWTOR. Both companies, prior to entering the online market, had long and unmitigated records of games which were successful both financially and critically. No other company which has attempted to craft an MMO can say that. BioWare and Blizzard are in an entirely different league from the rest of the gaming industry.
That covers the similarities. The differences may be even more important. Blizzard's games, while great, typically focused on the macro level. They built worlds, and massive military campaigns. They didn't spend much time getting bogged down in the little things, like the stories of individual characters, or events that were less than world-shaking. This is why among the best aspects of WoW are things like (the original version) of Alterac Valley. Sweeping, massive military conflicts, with very little in the way of individual story.
BioWare's games on the other hand, have always been about the story, above all. And the overall story, however epic, is always accessed through the lense of an intensely personal character story, one which is largely defined by the choices of the player. Given this difference in design philosophy, my suspicion would be that for players who really love story, SWTOR will redefine the genre. For players who don't care so much about story, but prefer to play solo, it will probably still end up being the game of choice. For players who prefer large, epic raids, and huge structured battlegrounds, WoW will probably stay king. I have no prediction where the small group focused people will end up falling. In the end though, I don't see this game failing, unless we have simply reached the point where the story focused single player RPG veterans + those who primarily solo in MMOs simply don't have enough numbers to support a game. Given the recent successes of Mass Effect and even Neverwinter Nights 2, I seriously doubt that is the case.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
its a star wars game, its not SWG, im playing it no matter what.
There are as many different types of mmo features and styles as there are players and each is individual, with different wants and hopes from an mmo.
To me one of the bigger differences between on line sp games and reall mmo's is the end game, is there one? I feel an mmo is deffined by the fact that there is a living, changing world and the players are mere characters upon it which sculpt the game. By this deffinition only sandboxes could really be considered mmo's and obviously to a vast majority of the mmo community this definition is complete bollox.
So whether or not this (or any) game can accurately be defined and pegeon holed into a definition of mmo should really be irrelavent. Is the game fun? Does it offer value, if indeed it is a subscription base, is there enough replayability? If it is essentially a co-op small group game will there be enough other elements to tie these groups together for those wanting a 'bigger world' feel. There are so many more important questions than 'what do we call it?'
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Ok, lets calm down, TOR is going be a MMO.
Quoting from the interview on Massively:
Will the game make use of instancing?
Rich: Yes, there is going to be a form of instancing. That's very important to a lot of different things – being able to do storytelling, being able to do experiences that aren't disrupted in public areas ... they are a part of our game. We do have both though, and we want to make sure you don't feel like you are in a single-player game.
Jake: We feel because it's an MMO and players play MMOs because they want to feel like they're a part of a vast world, you can't make too heavy use of instancing or you take that feeling away. It is a balance, though, like Rich was saying.
Rich: I met my first friends online by getting in trouble with a monster and they came over to rescue me. That is the kind of experience you can't get without public areas.
source:
www.massively.com/2008/10/23/swtor-overview-part-2/
Problem solved, ja ne? ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
lets just hope, I'm hoping
that the MMO part of the game comes at endgame
that you play your own little storyline game, which has parts of mmo in it in that you interact with others.. kinda.. during the leveling, but mostly you just focus on your own unique storyline
then after that when it comes to endgame and you're all mature, THEN you start playing with the bigboys and doing what we normally think of when we think of MMO
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
From what has been said about the game so far, it seems like it is going to be a typical theme park MMO (WoW, LotRO, etc.) with more words. The combat shown in the videos looks to be typical MMO combat (which is good in my opinion, as I was worried they would have gone with an NGE or Tabula Rasa psuedo-FPS combat system), and the character progression has been said to be class and level based.
The whole 'Personal Storyline' aspect is no different than the quest systems of other theme park MMOs. There has been no indication, and in fact claims of just the opposite, that players won't have the option of dragging along a group of other players with them as they complete whatever quests are clogging up their journal. Saying the game doesn't require grouping to complete the majority of the content in no way translates into not having the option of grouping.
What have you been smoking? Have you ever played a BioWare game, or looked at any of the actual information about this one? The only similarity between the personal storyline and the quest systems in other MMOs is that they both involve interacting with NPCs and reading some quest text. In all major online games to date, quests are an excessively rigid and linear experience, with any given quest going exactly one way. No choices, no options, no different flavors. One start, one finish, one path from the start to the finish.
BioWare games are all about player choice, and exploring the consequences to your story of those choices. Where a normal MMO might give you a quest to collect a debt for someone, where when you try to collect the debt the debtor gives you a sob story about how he needs to feed his family, and you go kill some boars for him to give him food in exchange for the money he owes, in a BioWare game, you wouldn't necessarily have to waste your time killing boars for the sad sack farmer. You might also have the option of threatening him into just giving you the money, or outright killing him and taking it from his corpse. Each possible choice could open up new quests in the future, and have ongoing consequences to your personal story.
Personal storylines are going to be deep, diverse, immersive experiences, unlike anything previously seen in online gaming, likely to the point where not only will you want to play all the classes in order to see their stories, you very well may want to make more than one character of a single class just to see what path the alternate choices lead you down.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.