Come on guys! Quests, multiple endings, Henchmen, Each class starting on it's own planet? This isnt a MMO. I'll be honest I really don't want it to be, I'm looking forward to a Single player RPG to kill all other single player RPG but to toss in MMO elements like global chat, Auction houses and crafting. Maybe some Instanced storyline pvp also (like massive battles think AV in WoW) This game is so heavy on the storyline that its going to run on rails even worse then the most hardcore themepark games. I'm saying it now when this game releases its going to be a smashing success but the people on this forum won't consider it a MMO just like they do for Guildwars. There's nothing wrong with a Crpg imo, we need a new one to play tbh. Havent had a nice one since GW released what five years ago. If you don't think its going to be a heavily main player focused storyline like a SP rpg just wait. Ill be Necroing this post when the game releases just to tell you how much fun im having and how glad I am that we have a new awesome game to play.
Definitely not, it could be a GREAT CRPG and it could be a BAD CRPG and I don't think they are going to test that especially with the "Star wars" franchise. This is going to me an extremely large mmo that will rely on mass amounts of people not a single player coop rpg..
It's kinda like voting a person for president whose only program is "I am going to make you all happy." ... Oh wait... you just did. Doh. >< Ya know, being the skeptic rationalist it is nice to see such simple faith in action, but... really should we not look at the details? When is any game "just fun" in every aspect? Isnt it right to talk about details while the game is still in the making? What IS "really fun"? With that attitude we dont need game forums anyhow.
^ This.
Thank you very much, that was awesome.
No, no it wasn't. This is NOT the place for it.
Oh and he didnt run on that premise, the Republicans just like to think he did so they can bash him.
Lets get on with actually talking about the game, shall we?
Really fun means that its finally going to be what an MMO should be. Its going to be driven by a proper storyline. Its going to be engaging instead of mindless. Good.
From what has been said about the game so far, it seems like it is going to be a typical theme park MMO (WoW, LotRO, etc.) with more words. The combat shown in the videos looks to be typical MMO combat (which is good in my opinion, as I was worried they would have gone with an NGE or Tabula Rasa psuedo-FPS combat system), and the character progression has been said to be class and level based. The whole 'Personal Storyline' aspect is no different than the quest systems of other theme park MMOs. There has been no indication, and in fact claims of just the opposite, that players won't have the option of dragging along a group of other players with them as they complete whatever quests are clogging up their journal. Saying the game doesn't require grouping to complete the majority of the content in no way translates into not having the option of grouping.
What have you been smoking? Have you ever played a BioWare game, or looked at any of the actual information about this one? The only similarity between the personal storyline and the quest systems in other MMOs is that they both involve interacting with NPCs and reading some quest text. In all major online games to date, quests are an excessively rigid and linear experience, with any given quest going exactly one way. No choices, no options, no different flavors. One start, one finish, one path from the start to the finish.
BioWare games are all about player choice, and exploring the consequences to your story of those choices. Where a normal MMO might give you a quest to collect a debt for someone, where when you try to collect the debt the debtor gives you a sob story about how he needs to feed his family, and you go kill some boars for him to give him food in exchange for the money he owes, in a BioWare game, you wouldn't necessarily have to waste your time killing boars for the sad sack farmer. You might also have the option of threatening him into just giving you the money, or outright killing him and taking it from his corpse. Each possible choice could open up new quests in the future, and have ongoing consequences to your personal story.
Personal storylines are going to be deep, diverse, immersive experiences, unlike anything previously seen in online gaming, likely to the point where not only will you want to play all the classes in order to see their stories, you very well may want to make more than one character of a single class just to see what path the alternate choices lead you down.
The personal storylines are going to be a bunch of words that drive the quests. They may be interesting, immersive, and 'deep', but as a game mechanic, they are functionally quest text. The choices made will drive quest chains, likely in a branching tree format. The branching of the quests, and the words that go along with them, doesn't change the fact that they are still just quests, such as those found in WoW and other themepark MMOs.
My main point was that the story aspect of TOR will have no impact on whether or not the game is an MMORPG. The story aspect of the game is functionally the quest system, and in no way means the game cannot be played as a typical themepark MMO. Having branching quests will not prohibit players from grouping and grinding out their quest logs together.
All indications point toward TOR being a typical themepark MMORPG with more words and branching quest chains.
You guys are all wrong. CORPG means Co-op Role Playing Game, like Guild Wars CRPG means Classic Role Playing Game, like Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape ect ARPG means Action Role Playing Game, like Diablo, Loki, Titan Quest, Sacred, HellGate ect
According to wikipedia it is computer, not classic. Though the classic designation would limit it to a higher quality range of games.
Ah ok, just that everytime i've seen the term used it's always as Classic, you could class every RPG ever made as a CRPG though as they were all made with some form of computer.
CRPG was always used to differentiate RPGs played on a computer from the pen and paper tabletop RPGs.
The personal storylines are going to be a bunch of words that drive the quests. They may be interesting, immersive, and 'deep', but as a game mechanic, they are functionally quest text. The choices made will drive quest chains, likely in a branching tree format. The branching of the quests, and the words that go along with them, doesn't change the fact that they are still just quests, such as those found in WoW and other themepark MMOs. My main point was that the story aspect of TOR will have no impact on whether or not the game is an MMORPG. The story aspect of the game is functionally the quest system, and in no way means the game cannot be played as a typical themepark MMO. Having branching quests will not prohibit players from grouping and grinding out their quest logs together. All indications point toward TOR being a typical themepark MMORPG with more words and branching quest chains.
I see where you are coming from now. I would still disagree though that TOR will be a "typical" themepark, even accepting your view of what makes a game a themepark. In a typical one, the quests are bland, boring, and have absolutely no effect on the story of the character you are playing.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
If they manage to design a game that people actually *like* to replay from level one, they don't need an "endgame." At least not until after a substantial number of people have played through every class story that interests them, as many times as it takes to explore all the branches they are curious about.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Look this game could be a WoW clone...this game could be a WAR clone (( actually with the amount of high profile patting on the back bioware and mythic have been doing between eachother..it really wouldn't suprise me if it was a WAR clone ))...hell this game could even be a guildwars clone.
You know what?
I really dont care what it turns out to be, i just want it and i want it now.
how do you know its a bad game it as every thing to be one of the gr8est mmos ever good makers in bioware and lucus arts and good graphics and its been hypted well it don't fail yet at the minuet anyone that does not give it a chance fails
how do you know its a bad game it as every thing to be one of the gr8est mmos ever good makers in bioware and lucus arts and good graphics and its been hypted well it don't fail yet at the minuet anyone that does not give it a chance fails
For me, KOTOR was amazing for the fact that you were stuck on a very strict storyline.. on rails, as it were... yet it didn't FEEL that way. The gameplay made you feel like you had choices that matter, than you were dictating the story.
Pushing a storyline in an MMO like this is a fantastic idea, and if anyone can pull it off, it'll be Bioware.
Come on guys! Quests, multiple endings, Henchmen, Each class starting on it's own planet? This isnt a MMO. I'll be honest I really don't want it to be, I'm looking forward to a Single player RPG to kill all other single player RPG but to toss in MMO elements like global chat, Auction houses and crafting. Maybe some Instanced storyline pvp also (like massive battles think AV in WoW) This game is so heavy on the storyline that its going to run on rails even worse then the most hardcore themepark games. I'm saying it now when this game releases its going to be a smashing success but the people on this forum won't consider it a MMO just like they do for Guildwars. There's nothing wrong with a Crpg imo, we need a new one to play tbh. Havent had a nice one since GW released what five years ago. If you don't think its going to be a heavily main player focused storyline like a SP rpg just wait. Ill be Necroing this post when the game releases just to tell you how much fun im having and how glad I am that we have a new awesome game to play.
Who cares? It is just semantics. If it is a good game, i would care less what it is actually called.
My guess is what WAR did to PvP, TOR will do to PvE. Except it'll crash even harder. Nothing about this game seems new or revelutionary. Just a sci-fi LotR or DDO. And I dont think people play these games for months even years cause of a good story.
In fact I will never ever spend money on this game.
But off the record I will probaly pre-order this game. For the same reason I payed full price for KotOR 2, even though I thought the first one was weak. Sith. Me personaly I thought both Kotor games were kinda boring especialy the combat.
If its good ill probaly pay for the second month(I like to give devs a treat if they did something good) but nothing past that.
I dont see the logic in paying 15 a month for a glorified SP game. But I dont mind spending 50 dollars on a good Star Wars game.
Bioware should do a micro-trans system like someone mentioned earlier. Take GW for an example it woulda floped hard if they charged a sub fee.
My tag for TOR is ASORPG Average Singleplayer Online Role Playing Game
Sorry but the rest of the boards were boring so I decided to crash yours.
My guess is what WAR did to PvP, TOR will do to PvE. Except it'll crash even harder. Nothing about this game seems new or revelutionary. Just a sci-fi LotR or DDO. And I dont think people play these games for months even years cause of a good story. In fact I will never ever spend money on this game. But off the record I will probaly pre-order this game. For the same reason I payed full price for KotOR 2, even though I thought the first one was weak. Sith. Me personaly I thought both Kotor games were kinda boring especialy the combat. If its good ill probaly pay for the second month(I like to give devs a treat if they did something good) but nothing past that. I dont see the logic in paying 15 a month for a glorified SP game. But I dont mind spending 50 dollars on a good Star Wars game. Bioware should do a micro-trans system like someone mentioned earlier. Take GW for an example it woulda floped hard if they charged a sub fee. My tag for TOR is ASORPG Average Singleplayer Online Role Playing Game
Sorry but the rest of the boards were boring so I decided to crash yours.
Does not compute...
How are you going to buy the game, possibly pay for the second month, but never ever spend money on the game?
If you don't like MMOs like WoW or LotRO, you probably won't like TOR. From everything we've heard about the game so far, it is going to be WoW with more story. The videos have shown combat to be pretty much traditional MMO combat, the character progerssion system is class and level based, and BioWare, EA, and LEC claim the game is an MMO. The developers have been praising WoW as the 'pinical of what MMOs should be, if only it had a story as stron ass they are bringing to TOR'.
TOR is going to be a traditional MMO with more words and some choices that will determine what other words you will see, in between killing random critters. If you kill foozle A, you will be sent to kill foozle D, but if you spare foozle A, you will be sent to kill foozle F. Adding more words and some branches to the quest lines will not inhibit players from grouping together to kill their respective foozles to advance their 'personal' stories.
TOR isn't going to be a single player game, unless you choose to play it that way. If you do choose to play it that way, you will miss out on some of game's content, just like WoW, LotRO, etc...
I guess another dev will find out that making a clone of WoW and adding a few extras wont keep people paying.
WoW didnt make it big on Gameplay alone there were other factors that got WoW where it is today. Plus Blizzard has a huge following of Bnet kiddies. Now I see a few Bio fans in this forum but Bioware doesnt have a following like Blizzard.
A remake of WoW with a story isnt going to keep your game alive. Unless people raided in WoW over and over again because they enjoyed the story.
Im sure TOR will be a decent game and entertaining for a lil while. And im not trying to hate on anyone whose interested in this game. Just stating my opinion that the game wont be anything amazing.
A story in a SP game will always be better than a mmorpg story unless you instance the hell out of it but then its just a Single player/co-op story.
Nothing about the info screams lasting appeal. LoTR, AoC, TR had some good storys but I guess all the devs played are WoW.
I still stand by what I wrote earlier, TOR is just WAR with a Star Wars theme and PvE focused. Even the pre-release hype is the same.
Come on guys! Quests, multiple endings, Henchmen, Each class starting on it's own planet? This isnt a MMO. I'll be honest I really don't want it to be, I'm looking forward to a Single player RPG to kill all other single player RPG but to toss in MMO elements like global chat, Auction houses and crafting. Maybe some Instanced storyline pvp also (like massive battles think AV in WoW) This game is so heavy on the storyline that its going to run on rails even worse then the most hardcore themepark games. I'm saying it now when this game releases its going to be a smashing success but the people on this forum won't consider it a MMO just like they do for Guildwars. There's nothing wrong with a Crpg imo, we need a new one to play tbh. Havent had a nice one since GW released what five years ago. If you don't think its going to be a heavily main player focused storyline like a SP rpg just wait. Ill be Necroing this post when the game releases just to tell you how much fun im having and how glad I am that we have a new awesome game to play.
Who cares if the majority of the die hard elitist mmo fans dont class it as an actual mmo? Most mmos currently in existence are nothing more than single player games in massive co-op mode anyway. I've been playing The Chronicles of Spellborn and thats a single player game too with the very occasional need to team up to get something done. It has a storyline just like a single player game and it keeps all the players seperate from each other because everyone is at different stages of the story. Working with or against other human beings is mostly optional. The same applies to most mmos.
There are some online games on the way that actually look like they will be real mmos, such as Global Agenda for example......but most of them are just story-driven single player games with co-op mode turned on because those games are easier for the devs to make. They just add chat channels to these games to try and distract people away from the fact that they are paying a monthly fee for a single player game.
Does Grand Theft Auto "run on rails"? Does Fallout 3? Are either MMOs?
Not sure what your point is here hanshotfirst. And no, neither are MMOs.
Anyways, I agree that there will be a themepark vibe mainly because of the story. However, I don't see Bioware keeping this game on the "rails" too much. I think it will have plenty of chances to do your own thing and explore the MMO world. At least I certainly hope so. Hope it isn't like AoC Tortage!
Maybe Bioware's game will create a new game definition outside of what we've known prevviously. At teast that's what I'm hoping for, something really different, and really fun.
There....that highlighted part.
That is all I want out of this game. If it is fun, I don't care if it is a themepark or a sandbox, a class or a skillbased system, a huge seamless world, or instanced, in epidsodes, or traditional.
It's as simple as that really. If the game is enough fun for me to justify paying for it, then the developers have done their job right. People who fail to understand that that is -all- that counts in a game...well, why are you even bothering?
Hoping BioWare will do as they have done with their previous games. Make it fun. Make it good. And make me feel like they earned the money I am paying them. Period.
If everything in the world where just that simple. *sigh* I know you mean well, but in reality, having fun in a game for a prolonged time is a complicated matter to design. There is no such thing from dev side as "simple fun". In fact, NOTHING is as difficult as to create long lasting fun. And thats what we gamers here discuss. Sure you can simplify matters saying stuff like that "I like games which are fun". Bravo. What a profound insight, and I am glad you are content with that level of thinking and that you care about no detail whatsoever. It must be wonderful to be so... wishless.
I apologize that some of us are not yet Taoist Masters who are satisfied with such... basic informations.
It's kinda like voting a person for president whose only program is "I am going to make you all happy." ... Oh wait... you just did. Doh. >< Ya know, being the skeptic rationalist it is nice to see such simple faith in action, but... really should we not look at the details? When is any game "just fun" in every aspect? Isnt it right to talk about details while the game is still in the making? What IS "really fun"?
With that attitude we dont need game forums anyhow.
OK, I missed this reply to my post. Sorry for dredging it up, but I will have to reply to this.
There is a profound difference between a game -being- "simply fun" and -MAKING- a game "simply fun". You think I don't know it is difficult? Of course I do. I never said it would be easy for BioWare to make. I never said they would just have to dump out a game like that.
What I said was that, if all things considered, this game makes me feel like it is alright to spend money on, then the game has succeeded for -ME-. That's all. That includes that, obviously, I want things in this game. That includes that I want them to make great story, make balanced classes, make PvP fun, make intriguing worlds etc etc.
But it is not quantified by things like "sandbox" or "Themepark". "Skillbased" or "Levelbased". The mechanics need to make the gameplay experience interesting and fun and flow well. If they do that, then it is a successful design and it doesn't matter if it is one kind of game or another.
As for your pointing out that NOW is the time to discuss these things. I've already said in another thread that it is most likely much too late to make MAJOR design changes in this game. It's been 3 1/2 years in the making and that while using the HeroEngine which is supposed to make game developement shorter. Which, in turn, most likely means they are far further ahead than we might think. (I'm not sure about this obviously, but I hope/think the E3 presentation should shed some light on this. Who knows?).
If you can't agree that a game, in the end, just needs to be -fun- then I dunno why you are actually playing games.
If you think I am "simple" because I refuse to get hung-up about silly disagreements between "sandboxers" and "themeparkers", then...well, I guess I can't say anything to that.
My first instinct is to say that it will be more like LotRO instead of Guild Wars, but BioWare insists that nothing like this has been done before, so I prefer NOT to speculate until I actually see the game. Will it be "the next big thing?" I dunno, but it's freakin' BioWare here, not Bob's MMO co. inc. I seriously doubt it's going to turn out horrible no matter what path the devs have taken it. I agree with you though. This game is going to be a blast. I've been waiting on "the next KOTOR" since KOTOR 1, and this is shaping up to be the closest we're going to get MMO or not.
I see this a lot. Not saying the game is going to be bad or good, but its not like Bioware actually has mmo experience. Take Bioware's inexperience and throw in some Lucas and you've got a greater possibility for a horrible game than you do for a great game, if only because most new games aren't great.
Best Advice for trying a new MMO: Ignore the hype, wait til 6 months after launch and a free trial.
What was Blizzard's MMO experience prior to launching WoW? Lack of experience in online games is a *good* thing, because it means they aren't shackled to outdated and counter-productive ideas of what an MMOG "should" be. In fact, the Blizzard/BioWare comparison is the best one we can use in predicting the probable success of SWTOR. Both companies, prior to entering the online market, had long and unmitigated records of games which were successful both financially and critically. No other company which has attempted to craft an MMO can say that. BioWare and Blizzard are in an entirely different league from the rest of the gaming industry.
That covers the similarities. The differences may be even more important. Blizzard's games, while great, typically focused on the macro level. They built worlds, and massive military campaigns. They didn't spend much time getting bogged down in the little things, like the stories of individual characters, or events that were less than world-shaking. This is why among the best aspects of WoW are things like (the original version) of Alterac Valley. Sweeping, massive military conflicts, with very little in the way of individual story.
BioWare's games on the other hand, have always been about the story, above all. And the overall story, however epic, is always accessed through the lense of an intensely personal character story, one which is largely defined by the choices of the player. Given this difference in design philosophy, my suspicion would be that for players who really love story, SWTOR will redefine the genre. For players who don't care so much about story, but prefer to play solo, it will probably still end up being the game of choice. For players who prefer large, epic raids, and huge structured battlegrounds, WoW will probably stay king. I have no prediction where the small group focused people will end up falling. In the end though, I don't see this game failing, unless we have simply reached the point where the story focused single player RPG veterans + those who primarily solo in MMOs simply don't have enough numbers to support a game. Given the recent successes of Mass Effect and even Neverwinter Nights 2, I seriously doubt that is the case.
Blizzard didn't think out side of the box they took existing MMORPG gaming models and produced a polished product, they didn't bring anything new to the table WoW is a just a rehash of old ideas in a new skin.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
Come on guys! Quests, multiple endings, Henchmen, Each class starting on it's own planet? This isnt a MMO. I'll be honest I really don't want it to be, I'm looking forward to a Single player RPG to kill all other single player RPG but to toss in MMO elements like global chat, Auction houses and crafting. Maybe some Instanced storyline pvp also (like massive battles think AV in WoW) This game is so heavy on the storyline that its going to run on rails even worse then the most hardcore themepark games. I'm saying it now when this game releases its going to be a smashing success but the people on this forum won't consider it a MMO just like they do for Guildwars. There's nothing wrong with a Crpg imo, we need a new one to play tbh. Havent had a nice one since GW released what five years ago. If you don't think its going to be a heavily main player focused storyline like a SP rpg just wait. Ill be Necroing this post when the game releases just to tell you how much fun im having and how glad I am that we have a new awesome game to play.
From what I have read on the official forums and various articles etc they are not making your conventional MMORPG, it is just going to be KOTOR on a bigger scale and based online (thats my opinion). That's why you shouldn't expect this game to be something it won't be. I admit I am disappointed that they aren't making a full blown sand boxed MMORPG; however that being said the original KOTOR was a fantastic game purely because of the story lines and polish and thats all I expect from SWTOR a game with great stories and polish. A common mistake people make (I am guilty of this also) is that they compare newer games to previous games which they loved to play for example SWG which had its bad points and also good points but SWG is SWG and SWTOR will be SWTOR weather you can call it a MMORPG is one thing but it will be Massively Multiplayer and Online but may not strictly fall in to the RPG category.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
Come on guys! Quests, multiple endings, Henchmen, Each class starting on it's own planet? This isnt a MMO. I'll be honest I really don't want it to be, I'm looking forward to a Single player RPG to kill all other single player RPG but to toss in MMO elements like global chat, Auction houses and crafting. Maybe some Instanced storyline pvp also (like massive battles think AV in WoW) This game is so heavy on the storyline that its going to run on rails even worse then the most hardcore themepark games. I'm saying it now when this game releases its going to be a smashing success but the people on this forum won't consider it a MMO just like they do for Guildwars. There's nothing wrong with a Crpg imo, we need a new one to play tbh. Havent had a nice one since GW released what five years ago. If you don't think its going to be a heavily main player focused storyline like a SP rpg just wait. Ill be Necroing this post when the game releases just to tell you how much fun im having and how glad I am that we have a new awesome game to play.
From what I have read on the official forums and various articles etc they are not making your conventional MMORPG, it is just going to be KOTOR on a bigger scale and based online (thats my opinion). That's why you shouldn't expect this game to be something it won't be. I admit I am disappointed that they aren't making a full blown sand boxed MMORPG; however that being said the original KOTOR was a fantastic game purely because of the story lines and polish and thats all I expect from SWTOR a game with great stories and polish. A common mistake people make (I am guilty of this also) is that they compare newer games to previous games which they loved to play for example SWG which had its bad points and also good points but SWG is SWG and SWTOR will be SWTOR weather you can call it a MMORPG is one thing but it will be Massively Multiplayer and Online but may not strictly fall in to the RPG category.
BioWare can make it KOTOR with a online feature but what I don't like is a monthly fee and on top of that micro transactions and you will have to pay for additional content that they add after launch.
Comments
Definitely not, it could be a GREAT CRPG and it could be a BAD CRPG and I don't think they are going to test that especially with the "Star wars" franchise. This is going to me an extremely large mmo that will rely on mass amounts of people not a single player coop rpg..
What makes a failing MMO is its endgame.
^ This.
Thank you very much, that was awesome.
No, no it wasn't. This is NOT the place for it.
Oh and he didnt run on that premise, the Republicans just like to think he did so they can bash him.
Lets get on with actually talking about the game, shall we?
Really fun means that its finally going to be what an MMO should be. Its going to be driven by a proper storyline. Its going to be engaging instead of mindless. Good.
What have you been smoking? Have you ever played a BioWare game, or looked at any of the actual information about this one? The only similarity between the personal storyline and the quest systems in other MMOs is that they both involve interacting with NPCs and reading some quest text. In all major online games to date, quests are an excessively rigid and linear experience, with any given quest going exactly one way. No choices, no options, no different flavors. One start, one finish, one path from the start to the finish.
BioWare games are all about player choice, and exploring the consequences to your story of those choices. Where a normal MMO might give you a quest to collect a debt for someone, where when you try to collect the debt the debtor gives you a sob story about how he needs to feed his family, and you go kill some boars for him to give him food in exchange for the money he owes, in a BioWare game, you wouldn't necessarily have to waste your time killing boars for the sad sack farmer. You might also have the option of threatening him into just giving you the money, or outright killing him and taking it from his corpse. Each possible choice could open up new quests in the future, and have ongoing consequences to your personal story.
Personal storylines are going to be deep, diverse, immersive experiences, unlike anything previously seen in online gaming, likely to the point where not only will you want to play all the classes in order to see their stories, you very well may want to make more than one character of a single class just to see what path the alternate choices lead you down.
The personal storylines are going to be a bunch of words that drive the quests. They may be interesting, immersive, and 'deep', but as a game mechanic, they are functionally quest text. The choices made will drive quest chains, likely in a branching tree format. The branching of the quests, and the words that go along with them, doesn't change the fact that they are still just quests, such as those found in WoW and other themepark MMOs.
My main point was that the story aspect of TOR will have no impact on whether or not the game is an MMORPG. The story aspect of the game is functionally the quest system, and in no way means the game cannot be played as a typical themepark MMO. Having branching quests will not prohibit players from grouping and grinding out their quest logs together.
All indications point toward TOR being a typical themepark MMORPG with more words and branching quest chains.
According to wikipedia it is computer, not classic. Though the classic designation would limit it to a higher quality range of games.
Ah ok, just that everytime i've seen the term used it's always as Classic, you could class every RPG ever made as a CRPG though as they were all made with some form of computer.
CRPG was always used to differentiate RPGs played on a computer from the pen and paper tabletop RPGs.
"Stay on target" ... There's a whole other forum for discussing politics. Thanks.
I see where you are coming from now. I would still disagree though that TOR will be a "typical" themepark, even accepting your view of what makes a game a themepark. In a typical one, the quests are bland, boring, and have absolutely no effect on the story of the character you are playing.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
If they manage to design a game that people actually *like* to replay from level one, they don't need an "endgame." At least not until after a substantial number of people have played through every class story that interests them, as many times as it takes to explore all the branches they are curious about.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Look this game could be a WoW clone...this game could be a WAR clone (( actually with the amount of high profile patting on the back bioware and mythic have been doing between eachother..it really wouldn't suprise me if it was a WAR clone ))...hell this game could even be a guildwars clone.
You know what?
I really dont care what it turns out to be, i just want it and i want it now.
how do you know its a bad game it as every thing to be one of the gr8est mmos ever good makers in bioware and lucus arts and good graphics and its been hypted well it don't fail yet at the minuet anyone that does not give it a chance fails
dj snoddy
even if it is it wont stop me and many of my freinds from buying it:P give up already its star wars
huh? I swear your just messin with us.
For me, KOTOR was amazing for the fact that you were stuck on a very strict storyline.. on rails, as it were... yet it didn't FEEL that way. The gameplay made you feel like you had choices that matter, than you were dictating the story.
Pushing a storyline in an MMO like this is a fantastic idea, and if anyone can pull it off, it'll be Bioware.
Who cares? It is just semantics. If it is a good game, i would care less what it is actually called.
My guess is what WAR did to PvP, TOR will do to PvE. Except it'll crash even harder. Nothing about this game seems new or revelutionary. Just a sci-fi LotR or DDO. And I dont think people play these games for months even years cause of a good story.
In fact I will never ever spend money on this game.
But off the record I will probaly pre-order this game. For the same reason I payed full price for KotOR 2, even though I thought the first one was weak. Sith. Me personaly I thought both Kotor games were kinda boring especialy the combat.
If its good ill probaly pay for the second month(I like to give devs a treat if they did something good) but nothing past that.
I dont see the logic in paying 15 a month for a glorified SP game. But I dont mind spending 50 dollars on a good Star Wars game.
Bioware should do a micro-trans system like someone mentioned earlier. Take GW for an example it woulda floped hard if they charged a sub fee.
My tag for TOR is ASORPG Average Singleplayer Online Role Playing Game
Sorry but the rest of the boards were boring so I decided to crash yours.
Does not compute...
How are you going to buy the game, possibly pay for the second month, but never ever spend money on the game?
If you don't like MMOs like WoW or LotRO, you probably won't like TOR. From everything we've heard about the game so far, it is going to be WoW with more story. The videos have shown combat to be pretty much traditional MMO combat, the character progerssion system is class and level based, and BioWare, EA, and LEC claim the game is an MMO. The developers have been praising WoW as the 'pinical of what MMOs should be, if only it had a story as stron ass they are bringing to TOR'.
TOR is going to be a traditional MMO with more words and some choices that will determine what other words you will see, in between killing random critters. If you kill foozle A, you will be sent to kill foozle D, but if you spare foozle A, you will be sent to kill foozle F. Adding more words and some branches to the quest lines will not inhibit players from grouping together to kill their respective foozles to advance their 'personal' stories.
TOR isn't going to be a single player game, unless you choose to play it that way. If you do choose to play it that way, you will miss out on some of game's content, just like WoW, LotRO, etc...
Read the third paragraph and it will compute.
I guess another dev will find out that making a clone of WoW and adding a few extras wont keep people paying.
WoW didnt make it big on Gameplay alone there were other factors that got WoW where it is today. Plus Blizzard has a huge following of Bnet kiddies. Now I see a few Bio fans in this forum but Bioware doesnt have a following like Blizzard.
A remake of WoW with a story isnt going to keep your game alive. Unless people raided in WoW over and over again because they enjoyed the story.
Im sure TOR will be a decent game and entertaining for a lil while. And im not trying to hate on anyone whose interested in this game. Just stating my opinion that the game wont be anything amazing.
A story in a SP game will always be better than a mmorpg story unless you instance the hell out of it but then its just a Single player/co-op story.
Nothing about the info screams lasting appeal. LoTR, AoC, TR had some good storys but I guess all the devs played are WoW.
I still stand by what I wrote earlier, TOR is just WAR with a Star Wars theme and PvE focused. Even the pre-release hype is the same.
Who cares if the majority of the die hard elitist mmo fans dont class it as an actual mmo? Most mmos currently in existence are nothing more than single player games in massive co-op mode anyway. I've been playing The Chronicles of Spellborn and thats a single player game too with the very occasional need to team up to get something done. It has a storyline just like a single player game and it keeps all the players seperate from each other because everyone is at different stages of the story. Working with or against other human beings is mostly optional. The same applies to most mmos.
There are some online games on the way that actually look like they will be real mmos, such as Global Agenda for example......but most of them are just story-driven single player games with co-op mode turned on because those games are easier for the devs to make. They just add chat channels to these games to try and distract people away from the fact that they are paying a monthly fee for a single player game.
Not sure what your point is here hanshotfirst. And no, neither are MMOs.
Anyways, I agree that there will be a themepark vibe mainly because of the story. However, I don't see Bioware keeping this game on the "rails" too much. I think it will have plenty of chances to do your own thing and explore the MMO world. At least I certainly hope so. Hope it isn't like AoC Tortage!
i love it how people think how a game is gonna be right now i mean comon its gonna be "a while longer" before it comes out.
Ok this shit is boring now, 10 pages of people not reading what has gone on b4 and saying the same things. Pls pls stop, im loosing the will to live
There....that highlighted part.
That is all I want out of this game. If it is fun, I don't care if it is a themepark or a sandbox, a class or a skillbased system, a huge seamless world, or instanced, in epidsodes, or traditional.
It's as simple as that really. If the game is enough fun for me to justify paying for it, then the developers have done their job right. People who fail to understand that that is -all- that counts in a game...well, why are you even bothering?
Hoping BioWare will do as they have done with their previous games. Make it fun. Make it good. And make me feel like they earned the money I am paying them. Period.
If everything in the world where just that simple. *sigh* I know you mean well, but in reality, having fun in a game for a prolonged time is a complicated matter to design. There is no such thing from dev side as "simple fun". In fact, NOTHING is as difficult as to create long lasting fun. And thats what we gamers here discuss. Sure you can simplify matters saying stuff like that "I like games which are fun". Bravo. What a profound insight, and I am glad you are content with that level of thinking and that you care about no detail whatsoever. It must be wonderful to be so... wishless.
I apologize that some of us are not yet Taoist Masters who are satisfied with such... basic informations.
It's kinda like voting a person for president whose only program is "I am going to make you all happy." ... Oh wait... you just did. Doh. >< Ya know, being the skeptic rationalist it is nice to see such simple faith in action, but... really should we not look at the details? When is any game "just fun" in every aspect? Isnt it right to talk about details while the game is still in the making? What IS "really fun"?
With that attitude we dont need game forums anyhow.
OK, I missed this reply to my post. Sorry for dredging it up, but I will have to reply to this.
There is a profound difference between a game -being- "simply fun" and -MAKING- a game "simply fun". You think I don't know it is difficult? Of course I do. I never said it would be easy for BioWare to make. I never said they would just have to dump out a game like that.
What I said was that, if all things considered, this game makes me feel like it is alright to spend money on, then the game has succeeded for -ME-. That's all. That includes that, obviously, I want things in this game. That includes that I want them to make great story, make balanced classes, make PvP fun, make intriguing worlds etc etc.
But it is not quantified by things like "sandbox" or "Themepark". "Skillbased" or "Levelbased". The mechanics need to make the gameplay experience interesting and fun and flow well. If they do that, then it is a successful design and it doesn't matter if it is one kind of game or another.
As for your pointing out that NOW is the time to discuss these things. I've already said in another thread that it is most likely much too late to make MAJOR design changes in this game. It's been 3 1/2 years in the making and that while using the HeroEngine which is supposed to make game developement shorter. Which, in turn, most likely means they are far further ahead than we might think. (I'm not sure about this obviously, but I hope/think the E3 presentation should shed some light on this. Who knows?).
If you can't agree that a game, in the end, just needs to be -fun- then I dunno why you are actually playing games.
If you think I am "simple" because I refuse to get hung-up about silly disagreements between "sandboxers" and "themeparkers", then...well, I guess I can't say anything to that.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I see this a lot. Not saying the game is going to be bad or good, but its not like Bioware actually has mmo experience. Take Bioware's inexperience and throw in some Lucas and you've got a greater possibility for a horrible game than you do for a great game, if only because most new games aren't great.
Best Advice for trying a new MMO: Ignore the hype, wait til 6 months after launch and a free trial.
What was Blizzard's MMO experience prior to launching WoW? Lack of experience in online games is a *good* thing, because it means they aren't shackled to outdated and counter-productive ideas of what an MMOG "should" be. In fact, the Blizzard/BioWare comparison is the best one we can use in predicting the probable success of SWTOR. Both companies, prior to entering the online market, had long and unmitigated records of games which were successful both financially and critically. No other company which has attempted to craft an MMO can say that. BioWare and Blizzard are in an entirely different league from the rest of the gaming industry.
That covers the similarities. The differences may be even more important. Blizzard's games, while great, typically focused on the macro level. They built worlds, and massive military campaigns. They didn't spend much time getting bogged down in the little things, like the stories of individual characters, or events that were less than world-shaking. This is why among the best aspects of WoW are things like (the original version) of Alterac Valley. Sweeping, massive military conflicts, with very little in the way of individual story.
BioWare's games on the other hand, have always been about the story, above all. And the overall story, however epic, is always accessed through the lense of an intensely personal character story, one which is largely defined by the choices of the player. Given this difference in design philosophy, my suspicion would be that for players who really love story, SWTOR will redefine the genre. For players who don't care so much about story, but prefer to play solo, it will probably still end up being the game of choice. For players who prefer large, epic raids, and huge structured battlegrounds, WoW will probably stay king. I have no prediction where the small group focused people will end up falling. In the end though, I don't see this game failing, unless we have simply reached the point where the story focused single player RPG veterans + those who primarily solo in MMOs simply don't have enough numbers to support a game. Given the recent successes of Mass Effect and even Neverwinter Nights 2, I seriously doubt that is the case.
Blizzard didn't think out side of the box they took existing MMORPG gaming models and produced a polished product, they didn't bring anything new to the table WoW is a just a rehash of old ideas in a new skin.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
From what I have read on the official forums and various articles etc they are not making your conventional MMORPG, it is just going to be KOTOR on a bigger scale and based online (thats my opinion). That's why you shouldn't expect this game to be something it won't be. I admit I am disappointed that they aren't making a full blown sand boxed MMORPG; however that being said the original KOTOR was a fantastic game purely because of the story lines and polish and thats all I expect from SWTOR a game with great stories and polish. A common mistake people make (I am guilty of this also) is that they compare newer games to previous games which they loved to play for example SWG which had its bad points and also good points but SWG is SWG and SWTOR will be SWTOR weather you can call it a MMORPG is one thing but it will be Massively Multiplayer and Online but may not strictly fall in to the RPG category.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
From what I have read on the official forums and various articles etc they are not making your conventional MMORPG, it is just going to be KOTOR on a bigger scale and based online (thats my opinion). That's why you shouldn't expect this game to be something it won't be. I admit I am disappointed that they aren't making a full blown sand boxed MMORPG; however that being said the original KOTOR was a fantastic game purely because of the story lines and polish and thats all I expect from SWTOR a game with great stories and polish. A common mistake people make (I am guilty of this also) is that they compare newer games to previous games which they loved to play for example SWG which had its bad points and also good points but SWG is SWG and SWTOR will be SWTOR weather you can call it a MMORPG is one thing but it will be Massively Multiplayer and Online but may not strictly fall in to the RPG category.
BioWare can make it KOTOR with a online feature but what I don't like is a monthly fee and on top of that micro transactions and you will have to pay for additional content that they add after launch.
Booh, BioWare, booh!