OMG!!! StarWar Vets Inc!!!!!!!!!!!!! Run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have no idea what you just did!!!!!! SWG was the greatest MMO Ever but was changed by SoE and lucus Arts because they wanted to capitalize on WoW. Overnight they destroyed a game Everyone loved and turned a Sandbox into a themepark. I hope the SWG vets dont see this post! lol
LOL....not saying it is a bad game, still is a immense game with good pvp and story, just asking why it's not so much more popular.
Because the SWG that exists today is nothing like the SWG we played all those years ago.
Now its this crappy sci-fi WoW clone with terrible running animations.
So I'm gonna try to figure out how to word this, bare with me I'm bad with my grammer. Also I don't play mmo's anymore due to spouse agro but that's another story.
Ok so let's open up 1 part of eve vs wow *not trying to compare but wow has the basic crafting as most mmo's*. Ok so in eve we wanna build a say Freighter *very large ship that transports goods nothing else*. First we need to see what is the requirements needed for building said freighter *read the blueprint*. Ok so it needs a bunch of capital ship components. Now we need to find out what is required to build those components *check the components blueprints* ok so there's several different types of minerals *minerals are gathered from mining asteroids*. Let's go find those asteroids *that task in itself can be very difficult without asking others and checking different websites*. Ok so now you know where to get those minerals. You now get your mining ship with the appropriate mining lasers and crystals *spend a shitload of time doing it*. now we got the minerals. Ok so now we get the blueprints for the components *which hopefully you got earlier and have been researching them while you mined to reduce the amount of minerals required and time needed to manufacture the product*. You make said components *btw this should take at least a month in real time*. You have the components so now you bring your ship's blueprint with components to a manufacturing plant to get made, wait for the ship to be built and there you go. You now have said freighter.
The above did not include the time and cash required to get the mining barge, the transporting of goods, the risk involved in Rats *npc ships attacking*, or Pirates *people who kill for free loot, or ransom your ship*. The skills actually required do so such a big job. As well it doesn't tell you about the Tech 2 variant and researching. Remember guys this is just 1 ship not 2 not other shit, just ONE ship.
Ok so now for wow. Let's make 1 piece of gear like say the Titan steel destroyer *btw I can't remember the amount of materals but got an idea*. Fly around northrend looking for titanium veins and grind some elementals make your 1 titan steel bar a day *or find others that will sell their cooldown to you. Do a couple heroics for frozen orbs, then find a BS to make it for you. You now have said titansteel destroyer.
So whoever the hell said that eve isn't complex is a complete moron, ever heard of "looking outside of the box" or thinking more then just about yourself and how boring the game might be. The thing that seperates people who enjoy eve is that they can look at long term accomplishments and rewards. Not this omg it's taking me longer then a month to get level 80 with the best gear possible attitude.
Another thing, the closest you will EVER get to real life manufacturing, trade, economy, fuck most things is eve online. If there is a more realistic way I would just love to see it.
Error correct: You get minerals from bringing ore to a refinery and refining the ore *with the appropriate skills* to get those minerals. Ore is mined from asteroids.
Even in it's current state, it is every bit as involved as what you just stated. You start off by finding the perfect materials for each subcomponent. Some raw materials are mined, some are gathered, some are grown, others are harvested from kills. Each resource has several stats, with multiple stats affect different attributes of the finished product. You may not be able to harvest or collect a suitable resource for a specific need at any given time, so you will probably need to buy some of your resources. You will most likely have to travel to another planet and pick your resource purchase up at the sellers house or shop, which is likely to be in a player created city.
Next you will have to create a prototype for each subcomponent you are capable of crafting and then create the items in a factory run. Most crafters also own multiple factories located near their home or shop for this purpose. You will be able to make some of the components you need, but others will have to be purchased from different professions. They also need the components you make, so there is decent money to be made focusing strictly on selling factory crates of crafting subcomponents.
Once you have made or collected all your components, you will have another list of raw materials to combine with them and create your finished item, or higher level component toward a finished item. You can then either create the item manually or make another blueprint and create the item in bulk at the appropriate factory.
What you can make is based on your level in your chosen crafting field, and what blueprints and certifications you can get your hands on. Some blueprints are one off, or some other number of limited run, some are permanent. Special blueprints can be found as loot or given as a quest reward, so advanturesrs have commerce with crafters in both directions. Quality can be affected by your attributes, gear, the quality of your crafting tools and buffs from other players. Almost every single item in the game is craftable... From home decor, to space ships...
So I'm gonna try to figure out how to word this, bare with me I'm bad with my grammer. Also I don't play mmo's anymore due to spouse agro but that's another story.
Ok so let's open up 1 part of eve vs wow *not trying to compare but wow has the basic crafting as most mmo's*. Ok so in eve we wanna build a say Freighter *very large ship that transports goods nothing else*. First we need to see what is the requirements needed for building said freighter *read the blueprint*. Ok so it needs a bunch of capital ship components. Now we need to find out what is required to build those components *check the components blueprints* ok so there's several different types of minerals *minerals are gathered from mining asteroids*. Let's go find those asteroids *that task in itself can be very difficult without asking others and checking different websites*. Ok so now you know where to get those minerals. You now get your mining ship with the appropriate mining lasers and crystals *spend a shitload of time doing it*. now we got the minerals. Ok so now we get the blueprints for the components *which hopefully you got earlier and have been researching them while you mined to reduce the amount of minerals required and time needed to manufacture the product*. You make said components *btw this should take at least a month in real time*. You have the components so now you bring your ship's blueprint with components to a manufacturing plant to get made, wait for the ship to be built and there you go. You now have said freighter. The above did not include the time and cash required to get the mining barge, the transporting of goods, the risk involved in Rats *npc ships attacking*, or Pirates *people who kill for free loot, or ransom your ship*. The skills actually required do so such a big job. As well it doesn't tell you about the Tech 2 variant and researching. Remember guys this is just 1 ship not 2 not other shit, just ONE ship.
Ok so now for wow. Let's make 1 piece of gear like say the Titan steel destroyer *btw I can't remember the amount of materals but got an idea*. Fly around northrend looking for titanium veins and grind some elementals make your 1 titan steel bar a day *or find others that will sell their cooldown to you. Do a couple heroics for frozen orbs, then find a BS to make it for you. You now have said titansteel destroyer.
So whoever the hell said that eve isn't complex is a complete moron, ever heard of "looking outside of the box" or thinking more then just about yourself and how boring the game might be. The thing that seperates people who enjoy eve is that they can look at long term accomplishments and rewards. Not this omg it's taking me longer then a month to get level 80 with the best gear possible attitude.
I've been playing Eve for a while now and I still havent Even touched on that side of the game. The whole damn thing gives me a headache just thinking about it LOL!
I just got my head wrapped around Covert Ops and Operating behind the scenes during Fleet battles. Doing the stuff like you discribe isnt even possible for me yet. Both in game and in my head.
Someone could play eve for over two years and never even experience the whole game. So much more to learn adn try yet in other games I;ve basically tried everything those games have to offer within two months of playing.
This is one of the reason I have a problem with people telling me other MMos are just as complex, How the hell could any game be as complex with only 1/10 of the game play styles of Eve.
Have you ever seen crafting in SWG? Even in it's current state, it is every bit as involved as what you just stated. You start off by finding the perfect materials for each subcomponent. Some raw materials are mined, some are gathered, some are grown. Each resource has several stats, with multiple stats affect different attributes of the finished product. You may not be able to harvest or collect a suitable resource for a specific need at any given time, so you will probably need to buy some of your resources. You will most likely have to travel to another planet and pick your resource purchase up at the sellers house or shop, which is likely to be in a player created city. Next you will have to create a prototype for each subcomponent you are capable of crafting and then create the items in a factory run. Most crafters also own multiple factories located near their home or shop for this purpose. You will be able to make some of the components you need, but others will have to be purchased from different professions. They also need the components you make, so there is decent money to be made focusing strictly on selling factory crates of crafting subcomponents. Once you have made or collected all your components, you will have another list of raw materials to combine with them and create your finished item, or higher level component toward a finished item. You can then either create the item manually or make another blueprint and create the item in bulk at the appropriate factory. What you can make is based on your level in your chosen crafting field, and what blueprints and certifications you can get your hands on. Some blueprints are one off, or some other number of limited run, some are permanent. Special blueprints can be found as loot or given as a quest reward, so advanturesrs have commerce with crafters in both directions. Quality can be affected by your attributes, gear, the quality of your crafting tools and buffs from other players. Almost every single item in the game is adventurers. From home decor, to space ships... How is Eves crafting any more complex than that?
It's not, it's basically the same thing. However I wasn't talking about SWG I was talkin about the basic mmo such as wow. As well SWG is going to be soon replaced by TOR. I only hope TOR keeps the same ideas with crafting and such.
I won't drop another wall of text on the subject... but what about crafting in Vanguard? I think it's pretty comparable to Eve as well. While the complexities faced are very different, I think the same can be said for crafting in Anarchy Online.
Sal we all loved Swg but we need to face it that game no longer exists in its Epic form. I agree that SWG was a bad ass game but to even mention it in the same sentence in Eve now just suxs. If Swg was around right now I would be playing it along with Eve and Ryzom. Want us to admit SWG was just as advanced as Eve in certain ways? sure. Does it matter though? it's gone.
I'll second that.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Everything I just said about crafting in SWG is true today. If you played for any length of time in the past, you probably have some free time to check it out. Combat sucks, new combat classes suck. We all agree on that. Crafting is different now, but it isn't really that bad. If you wanted to play SWG as pure crafter, maybe even a crafter / pilot mining asteroids as well as planetary mining. You can have the equivalent of about a quadruple master of the old crafting classes. Having full merchant, politician and pilot along with it. You even have a combat level on the ground again.
The game isn't what it used to be, but none of that is really relevant to my original point... that being that Eve isn't alone in terms of complexity. Whether or not you enjoy Eve is a pretty piss poor IQ test, despite what the Evotists around here would have you believe.
Everything I just said about crafting in SWG is true today. If you played for any length of time in the past, you probably have some free time to check it out. Combat sucks, new combat classes suck. We all agree on that. Crafting is different now, but it isn't really that bad. If you wanted to play SWG as pure crafter, maybe even a crafter / pilot mining asteroids as well as planetary mining. You can have the equivalent of about a quadruple master of the old crafting classes. Having full merchant, politician and pilot along with it. You even have a combat level on the ground again. The game isn't what it used to be, but none of that is really relevant to my original point... that being that Eve isn't alone in terms of complexity. Whether or not you enjoy Eve is pretty piss poor IQ test, despite what the Evotists around here would have you believe.
I tried....
I get this sinking pit feeling whenever I try to even load up that game.
It bugs me how SoE treated their playerbase.
I did read that SWG still had good crafting but crafting alone doesnt make a game.
Unique things in Eve like its Rts Combat ( yeah I actually like the combat) The mechanics involved of being a Covert Ops pilot.
The experiences I have everyday keep me playing Eve online.
Im sure there's some game on the market that has a certain aspect that takes real time to learn adn that's great I just havent found a game that wraps everything in one package like Eve does.
You can't stand Eve and that's fine but I can't imagine not playing it.
The exeriences I've had in Eve are the greatest moments i;ve ever had in any other videogame.
Including Old UO or Swg.
God damnit! I know people have thier opinion but there's so much mroe to eve.
I wished people could get around the combat or the boring mining to actually see the real picture.
The game isn't what it used to be, but none of that is really relevant to my original point... that being that Eve isn't alone in terms of complexity.
Who said EVE was the only complex MMO? No one. You made the statement that it was Eve isn't any more complex then most any other MMO. People contested that. They didn't say that it offered the most complex gameplay. And also, by your examples of VG and SWG, you point out that only two MMOs are even in the same ballpark, albeit in only one small aspect of gameplay.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
The op is fetching for a positive view,but the reality is there are no spaceship type games to draw from.There is a base populace that wants their space ship games,so it will have a following no matter how weak the game is. [snip] Eve is a throwback to 3D game design and interaction,it is about 10+ years backwards,but there is no other space ship game that does it any better,so EVE in reality has ZERO competition.If there was say 15+ space ship games with better interaction and better content,EVE IMO would have never made it past beta.
How do you define "better interaction and better content"?
Interaction towards what? NPCs and crap? Eve is a PvP-focused game, not PvE. Player interaction is fine, great even. Better than many other MMOs out there.
Content is fine, it's just a question about participating and being creative. If you want to do something, go do it. Don't complain that there is no content because you're not being told where to go, and what build is best.
...
Your right,i want to go explore that planet,how do i do the simplest of expectations from a space game,when i can't explore?Without being able to actually explore the planet,it is nothing more than a cheap mesh stuck in an empty space.You know how much effort it takes to make a planet in EVE??? about 2 minutes,it would take longer to think of the texture to use,to paste onto the round circle.
How about i want to walk around that space station??after all it is a space station right?how would you know ?it's just another mesh pasted into the world.
IMO a game needs to come to life ,without it,it makes me think opf the actual way a game world is made and i shoudl not be thinking that when i play.EVE can be nothing more than one big square box 11,240 x 11,240 with a bunch of small mesh pasted into it,nothing more than that.Where the effort comes in by the developer,is creating content within that big square box and EVE does not deliver.
Sure i can accept it is suppose to be a PVP game,but i am 100% sure the player base would not accept a big empty box to PVP in,so why accept the next closest thing?If you want a world to PVP in ,i can create you one in a matter of minutes ,it is the content within a world that brings a game to life,this is what matters far more than PVP.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Your right,i want to go explore that planet,how do i do the simplest of expectations from a space game,when i can't explore?Without being able to actually explore the planet,it is nothing more than a cheap mesh stuck in an empty space.You know how much effort it takes to make a planet in EVE??? about 2 minutes,it would take longer to think of the texture to use,to paste onto the round circle. How about i want to walk around that space station??after all it is a space station right?how would you know ?it's just another mesh pasted into the world. IMO a game needs to come to life ,without it,it makes me think opf the actual way a game world is made and i shoudl not be thinking that when i play.EVE can be nothing more than one big square box 11,240 x 11,240 with a bunch of small mesh pasted into it,nothing more than that.Where the effort comes in by the developer,is creating content within that big square box and EVE does not deliver. Sure i can accept it is suppose to be a PVP game,but i am 100% sure the player base would not accept a big empty box to PVP in,so why accept the next closest thing?If you want a world to PVP in ,i can create you one in a matter of minutes ,it is the content within a world that brings a game to life,this is what matters far more than PVP.
It gets updated and you don't have to pay for expansions that kill 80% of the previous content because of the new levels. If you stop playing for years, you can simply pay the fee and hop back into the new content or improved existing content. The skill system feels good although it makes multi-accounting highly viable which IMO is a flaw, but still a very small flaw compared to the progressive content of other games that get half-killed at every new expansion or those item mall games in which spend more = win more.
It's a sandbox that works, you really do whatever you want, and the options have evolved throughout the years, the game is incredibly complex in a good sense. They even redesigned new-player experience around this idea.
Obviously people may find it boring, maybe the game failed to grasp your attention but the constant updates and expansions can change that view.
You can buy or sell in-game time cards for ISKs (the in-game money), which is really good. And yes, there are those third-party illegal websites doing RMTing, there is no game that doesn't face that problem though and EVE still has the bots every 5-minutes spamming chat channels with advertising, which sucks.
Anyway, I really can't describe EVE in a few paragraphs, especially because I do not fully understand it, it has enough content for a few lifetimes.
Everything I just said about crafting in SWG is true today. If you played for any length of time in the past, you probably have some free time to check it out. Combat sucks, new combat classes suck. We all agree on that. Crafting is different now, but it isn't really that bad. If you wanted to play SWG as pure crafter, maybe even a crafter / pilot mining asteroids as well as planetary mining. You can have the equivalent of about a quadruple master of the old crafting classes. Having full merchant, politician and pilot along with it. You even have a combat level on the ground again. The game isn't what it used to be, but none of that is really relevant to my original point... that being that Eve isn't alone in terms of complexity. Whether or not you enjoy Eve is a pretty piss poor IQ test, despite what the Evotists around here would have you believe.
So sick of old pre-CU dwg vets crying bout the glory days. no one gives a shit SOE nerfed it into a WoW clone plain and simple. Tech 2 production alone blows away current SWG in terms of complexity let alone the skill system. Not to mention system control / sov system. Get real. SWG is a Level/Class based pos dumbed down for mass appeal. Not even worth talking about.
SWG cant touch EVE period
<---- swg veteran forum is that way you are lost me thinks
Summary:
EVE Tech 2 production blows away SWG. You can be a pure crafter right NOW
EVE has buy/sell orders right now
EVE has full sov system implementation for pvp. Even Alliance leaders are baffled by the intricacy at times.
Full blown hauling, economics system complete with graphs
The op is fetching for a positive view,but the reality is there are no spaceship type games to draw from.There is a base populace that wants their space ship games,so it will have a following no matter how weak the game is. IMO a MMO 3D game should be about visuals,because if you remove visuals,you are left with a MUD.Eve has almost no visuals,it is VERY close to a MUD,so i really cannot fathom anyone playing it,i know it bored the heck out of me,just because there is zero interaction.I would not call sitting my ship in front of a fake looking meteor and pew pew it mining.I would not call space travel ,actual travel when all you do is hit auto pilot and have zero interaction with your spaceship.I would not call docking in some fake 2d bay equipping my ship,it is MUD interaction all over again,you are just saying you are equipping it,but nothing visual happens,well at least nothing a first year student couldn't muster up for visuals. Eve is a throwback to 3D game design and interaction,it is about 10+ years backwards,but there is no other space ship game that does it any better,so EVE in reality has ZERO competition.If there was say 15+ space ship games with better interaction and better content,EVE IMO would have never made it past beta. The thing that keeps EVE going,is that a developer trying to create interaction on 100's of planets,creating content within your ship,creating more 3D visuals with lots more interaction,would be a HUGE undertaking,even for SOE or Blizzard.So EVE may never have any competition.
Originally posted by damian7
yet, you fanboi up for darkfall. irony. maybe hypocrisy... not sure, maybe both.
With a description like that it's probably Irony. I am always struck when people criticize EVE for being nothing like traditional quest based games, then use the traditional quest based side of EVE as a description for the game. As if the game has no identity.
At it's core, EVE is a highly social Empire building game. Some of the socialization involves teamwork and vast complexity, and some involves raining terror down on others. This socialization is the key to interaction not the graphics. This aspect of the game takes on new meaning when you consider how few limitations the game places on players (I. E. Sandbox).
So, in the end EVE is following a tradition laid down by the likes of Ultima Online and others. They are in fact advancing and perfecting it. The fact that they are doing it in a space game has very little to do with it.
People play what they want to play and what they enjoy playing. If not, they cancel their account and move on. I would never dream in my life of dictating to another person what game they should play, so if someone dislikes EvE, ok. No problem.
It's like any other MMO out there: you get your share of immature bungholes, and mature, nice players. EvE requires a particular kind of cleverness (not necessarily intelligence) that non free-for-all PvP games don't really require or foster. One thing that does differentiate EvE players from a lot of other game communities is that because of the long times for training and doing things, and the severe death penalty, ties formed are usually stronger and people get much more immersed and involved in their corporations/alliances. This is an aspect seen in most free-for-all PvP games, like UO in its heyday, Shadowbane, etc. If you don't like vying with other players, whether by trade, combat, over resources, then it's very difficult to describe what it is like and why people might be particularly keen on it.
Out of your list of aspects of EvE you hate, I agree with you about the ingame currency sales. I know why CCP did it, but I feel uneasy about it. The rest are integral to the game and can't really be changed.
Complexity and content? EvE's complexity stems from its simplicity. If you're only looking at missions as content, yeah EvE has less of that kind of content than the themepark MMOs that are the closest thing you can compare EvE's missions to. It's full of content though, whether storylines, ingame press reports, player interactions, GM live events, etc. CCP just added story archs as well, so there are epic stories. But the overwhelming content is what the players provide themselves. Each corp has its own history and makes its own mark on other corps and on the game itself. CCP's 'genius' was in adding just enough of an architecture for players to decide what they wanted to do in their own game.
If most themeparks are linear, in my opinion, EvE is entirely 3 dimensional. There are so many aspects of the game that come into play that it's very difficult to explain/describe what is going on. At face value, it looks like a simple game, but it has struck the perfect balance between simplicity and complexity that eggs players who like this kind of genre on. WoW, LotRO, recent DAoC, WAR, etc., seem at face value to be complex, but actually, they are simple because there aren't as many aspects coming into play everytime you log in. There is nothing wrong with that at all, it's just a different genre of gameplay. I happen to like both <shrug> . Shame that you can't understand that and feel put out by the vast majority of EvE players.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
Your right,i want to go explore that planet,how do i do the simplest of expectations from a space game,when i can't explore?Without being able to actually explore the planet,it is nothing more than a cheap mesh stuck in an empty space.
Which of the sci-fi MMOs that take place in space allow you to explore planets?
Which of the sci-fi MMOs that take in place on a planet allow you to explore space?
I'm curious what the basis of this 'simplest of expectations' is.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Make all the excuses you guys want Eve is designed to evolve over the next 20 years
pretty much this. I believe eve will be there not only for the next few years, it will be there for the next decades.
WoW might be more popular, but theres only one game that is always at the cutting edge of mmo technology: you guess it, its eve online.
I think it's pretty far-fetched to assume any piece of software will still be relevant in 20 years from now. I also disagree that Eve is the cutting edge of technology. Graphically it does stand up pretty good, but I don't think that holds true in other areas.
Comments
LOL....not saying it is a bad game, still is a immense game with good pvp and story, just asking why it's not so much more popular.
Because the SWG that exists today is nothing like the SWG we played all those years ago.
Now its this crappy sci-fi WoW clone with terrible running animations.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
So I'm gonna try to figure out how to word this, bare with me I'm bad with my grammer. Also I don't play mmo's anymore due to spouse agro but that's another story.
Ok so let's open up 1 part of eve vs wow *not trying to compare but wow has the basic crafting as most mmo's*. Ok so in eve we wanna build a say Freighter *very large ship that transports goods nothing else*. First we need to see what is the requirements needed for building said freighter *read the blueprint*. Ok so it needs a bunch of capital ship components. Now we need to find out what is required to build those components *check the components blueprints* ok so there's several different types of minerals *minerals are gathered from mining asteroids*. Let's go find those asteroids *that task in itself can be very difficult without asking others and checking different websites*. Ok so now you know where to get those minerals. You now get your mining ship with the appropriate mining lasers and crystals *spend a shitload of time doing it*. now we got the minerals. Ok so now we get the blueprints for the components *which hopefully you got earlier and have been researching them while you mined to reduce the amount of minerals required and time needed to manufacture the product*. You make said components *btw this should take at least a month in real time*. You have the components so now you bring your ship's blueprint with components to a manufacturing plant to get made, wait for the ship to be built and there you go. You now have said freighter.
The above did not include the time and cash required to get the mining barge, the transporting of goods, the risk involved in Rats *npc ships attacking*, or Pirates *people who kill for free loot, or ransom your ship*. The skills actually required do so such a big job. As well it doesn't tell you about the Tech 2 variant and researching. Remember guys this is just 1 ship not 2 not other shit, just ONE ship.
Ok so now for wow. Let's make 1 piece of gear like say the Titan steel destroyer *btw I can't remember the amount of materals but got an idea*. Fly around northrend looking for titanium veins and grind some elementals make your 1 titan steel bar a day *or find others that will sell their cooldown to you. Do a couple heroics for frozen orbs, then find a BS to make it for you. You now have said titansteel destroyer.
So whoever the hell said that eve isn't complex is a complete moron, ever heard of "looking outside of the box" or thinking more then just about yourself and how boring the game might be. The thing that seperates people who enjoy eve is that they can look at long term accomplishments and rewards. Not this omg it's taking me longer then a month to get level 80 with the best gear possible attitude.
Another thing, the closest you will EVER get to real life manufacturing, trade, economy, fuck most things is eve online. If there is a more realistic way I would just love to see it.
Error correct: You get minerals from bringing ore to a refinery and refining the ore *with the appropriate skills* to get those minerals. Ore is mined from asteroids.
Have you ever seen crafting in SWG?
Even in it's current state, it is every bit as involved as what you just stated. You start off by finding the perfect materials for each subcomponent. Some raw materials are mined, some are gathered, some are grown, others are harvested from kills. Each resource has several stats, with multiple stats affect different attributes of the finished product. You may not be able to harvest or collect a suitable resource for a specific need at any given time, so you will probably need to buy some of your resources. You will most likely have to travel to another planet and pick your resource purchase up at the sellers house or shop, which is likely to be in a player created city.
Next you will have to create a prototype for each subcomponent you are capable of crafting and then create the items in a factory run. Most crafters also own multiple factories located near their home or shop for this purpose. You will be able to make some of the components you need, but others will have to be purchased from different professions. They also need the components you make, so there is decent money to be made focusing strictly on selling factory crates of crafting subcomponents.
Once you have made or collected all your components, you will have another list of raw materials to combine with them and create your finished item, or higher level component toward a finished item. You can then either create the item manually or make another blueprint and create the item in bulk at the appropriate factory.
What you can make is based on your level in your chosen crafting field, and what blueprints and certifications you can get your hands on. Some blueprints are one off, or some other number of limited run, some are permanent. Special blueprints can be found as loot or given as a quest reward, so advanturesrs have commerce with crafters in both directions. Quality can be affected by your attributes, gear, the quality of your crafting tools and buffs from other players. Almost every single item in the game is craftable... From home decor, to space ships...
How is Eves crafting any more complex than that?
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
I've been playing Eve for a while now and I still havent Even touched on that side of the game. The whole damn thing gives me a headache just thinking about it LOL!
I just got my head wrapped around Covert Ops and Operating behind the scenes during Fleet battles. Doing the stuff like you discribe isnt even possible for me yet. Both in game and in my head.
Someone could play eve for over two years and never even experience the whole game. So much more to learn adn try yet in other games I;ve basically tried everything those games have to offer within two months of playing.
This is one of the reason I have a problem with people telling me other MMos are just as complex, How the hell could any game be as complex with only 1/10 of the game play styles of Eve.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
It's not, it's basically the same thing. However I wasn't talking about SWG I was talkin about the basic mmo such as wow. As well SWG is going to be soon replaced by TOR. I only hope TOR keeps the same ideas with crafting and such.
I won't drop another wall of text on the subject... but what about crafting in Vanguard? I think it's pretty comparable to Eve as well. While the complexities faced are very different, I think the same can be said for crafting in Anarchy Online.
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Sal we all loved Swg but we need to face it that game no longer exists in its Epic form.
I agree that SWG was a bad ass game but to even mention it in the same sentence in Eve now just suxs.
If Swg was around right now I would be playing it along with Eve and Ryzom.
Want us to admit SWG was just as advanced as Eve in certain ways? sure.
Does it matter though? it's gone.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I'll second that.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
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Everything I just said about crafting in SWG is true today. If you played for any length of time in the past, you probably have some free time to check it out. Combat sucks, new combat classes suck. We all agree on that. Crafting is different now, but it isn't really that bad. If you wanted to play SWG as pure crafter, maybe even a crafter / pilot mining asteroids as well as planetary mining. You can have the equivalent of about a quadruple master of the old crafting classes. Having full merchant, politician and pilot along with it. You even have a combat level on the ground again.
The game isn't what it used to be, but none of that is really relevant to my original point... that being that Eve isn't alone in terms of complexity. Whether or not you enjoy Eve is a pretty piss poor IQ test, despite what the Evotists around here would have you believe.
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I tried....
I get this sinking pit feeling whenever I try to even load up that game.
It bugs me how SoE treated their playerbase.
I did read that SWG still had good crafting but crafting alone doesnt make a game.
Unique things in Eve like its Rts Combat ( yeah I actually like the combat) The mechanics involved of being a Covert Ops pilot.
The experiences I have everyday keep me playing Eve online.
Im sure there's some game on the market that has a certain aspect that takes real time to learn adn that's great I just havent found a game that wraps everything in one package like Eve does.
You can't stand Eve and that's fine but I can't imagine not playing it.
The exeriences I've had in Eve are the greatest moments i;ve ever had in any other videogame.
Including Old UO or Swg.
God damnit! I know people have thier opinion but there's so much mroe to eve.
I wished people could get around the combat or the boring mining to actually see the real picture.
Oh well, If you hate it, you hate it.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
Who said EVE was the only complex MMO? No one. You made the statement that it was Eve isn't any more complex then most any other MMO. People contested that. They didn't say that it offered the most complex gameplay. And also, by your examples of VG and SWG, you point out that only two MMOs are even in the same ballpark, albeit in only one small aspect of gameplay.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
How do you define "better interaction and better content"?
Interaction towards what? NPCs and crap? Eve is a PvP-focused game, not PvE. Player interaction is fine, great even. Better than many other MMOs out there.
Content is fine, it's just a question about participating and being creative. If you want to do something, go do it. Don't complain that there is no content because you're not being told where to go, and what build is best.
...
Your right,i want to go explore that planet,how do i do the simplest of expectations from a space game,when i can't explore?Without being able to actually explore the planet,it is nothing more than a cheap mesh stuck in an empty space.You know how much effort it takes to make a planet in EVE??? about 2 minutes,it would take longer to think of the texture to use,to paste onto the round circle.
How about i want to walk around that space station??after all it is a space station right?how would you know ?it's just another mesh pasted into the world.
IMO a game needs to come to life ,without it,it makes me think opf the actual way a game world is made and i shoudl not be thinking that when i play.EVE can be nothing more than one big square box 11,240 x 11,240 with a bunch of small mesh pasted into it,nothing more than that.Where the effort comes in by the developer,is creating content within that big square box and EVE does not deliver.
Sure i can accept it is suppose to be a PVP game,but i am 100% sure the player base would not accept a big empty box to PVP in,so why accept the next closest thing?If you want a world to PVP in ,i can create you one in a matter of minutes ,it is the content within a world that brings a game to life,this is what matters far more than PVP.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Dude they are working on "Walking in Stations".
It's unique.
It gets updated and you don't have to pay for expansions that kill 80% of the previous content because of the new levels. If you stop playing for years, you can simply pay the fee and hop back into the new content or improved existing content. The skill system feels good although it makes multi-accounting highly viable which IMO is a flaw, but still a very small flaw compared to the progressive content of other games that get half-killed at every new expansion or those item mall games in which spend more = win more.
It's a sandbox that works, you really do whatever you want, and the options have evolved throughout the years, the game is incredibly complex in a good sense. They even redesigned new-player experience around this idea.
Obviously people may find it boring, maybe the game failed to grasp your attention but the constant updates and expansions can change that view.
You can buy or sell in-game time cards for ISKs (the in-game money), which is really good. And yes, there are those third-party illegal websites doing RMTing, there is no game that doesn't face that problem though and EVE still has the bots every 5-minutes spamming chat channels with advertising, which sucks.
Anyway, I really can't describe EVE in a few paragraphs, especially because I do not fully understand it, it has enough content for a few lifetimes.
Does not require much effort when someone speaks like true idiot...
Hmmm...the Eve-kiddies are in full-force in this thread. this is worse than Darkfall.
LMAO!
So sick of old pre-CU dwg vets crying bout the glory days. no one gives a shit SOE nerfed it into a WoW clone plain and simple. Tech 2 production alone blows away current SWG in terms of complexity let alone the skill system. Not to mention system control / sov system. Get real. SWG is a Level/Class based pos dumbed down for mass appeal. Not even worth talking about.
SWG cant touch EVE period
<---- swg veteran forum is that way you are lost me thinks
Summary:
EVE Tech 2 production blows away SWG. You can be a pure crafter right NOW
EVE has buy/sell orders right now
EVE has full sov system implementation for pvp. Even Alliance leaders are baffled by the intricacy at times.
Full blown hauling, economics system complete with graphs
No forced questing and Classes like Current SWG.
Pirates / mercs / escourt / frieghter / scout
Exploration system
Current SWG is not even close.
Originally posted by Wizardry
The op is fetching for a positive view,but the reality is there are no spaceship type games to draw from.There is a base populace that wants their space ship games,so it will have a following no matter how weak the game is. IMO a MMO 3D game should be about visuals,because if you remove visuals,you are left with a MUD.Eve has almost no visuals,it is VERY close to a MUD,so i really cannot fathom anyone playing it,i know it bored the heck out of me,just because there is zero interaction.I would not call sitting my ship in front of a fake looking meteor and pew pew it mining.I would not call space travel ,actual travel when all you do is hit auto pilot and have zero interaction with your spaceship.I would not call docking in some fake 2d bay equipping my ship,it is MUD interaction all over again,you are just saying you are equipping it,but nothing visual happens,well at least nothing a first year student couldn't muster up for visuals. Eve is a throwback to 3D game design and interaction,it is about 10+ years backwards,but there is no other space ship game that does it any better,so EVE in reality has ZERO competition.If there was say 15+ space ship games with better interaction and better content,EVE IMO would have never made it past beta. The thing that keeps EVE going,is that a developer trying to create interaction on 100's of planets,creating content within your ship,creating more 3D visuals with lots more interaction,would be a HUGE undertaking,even for SOE or Blizzard.So EVE may never have any competition.
Originally posted by damian7
yet, you fanboi up for darkfall. irony. maybe hypocrisy... not sure, maybe both.
With a description like that it's probably Irony. I am always struck when people criticize EVE for being nothing like traditional quest based games, then use the traditional quest based side of EVE as a description for the game. As if the game has no identity.
At it's core, EVE is a highly social Empire building game. Some of the socialization involves teamwork and vast complexity, and some involves raining terror down on others. This socialization is the key to interaction not the graphics. This aspect of the game takes on new meaning when you consider how few limitations the game places on players (I. E. Sandbox).
So, in the end EVE is following a tradition laid down by the likes of Ultima Online and others. They are in fact advancing and perfecting it. The fact that they are doing it in a space game has very little to do with it.
People play what they want to play and what they enjoy playing. If not, they cancel their account and move on. I would never dream in my life of dictating to another person what game they should play, so if someone dislikes EvE, ok. No problem.
It's like any other MMO out there: you get your share of immature bungholes, and mature, nice players. EvE requires a particular kind of cleverness (not necessarily intelligence) that non free-for-all PvP games don't really require or foster. One thing that does differentiate EvE players from a lot of other game communities is that because of the long times for training and doing things, and the severe death penalty, ties formed are usually stronger and people get much more immersed and involved in their corporations/alliances. This is an aspect seen in most free-for-all PvP games, like UO in its heyday, Shadowbane, etc. If you don't like vying with other players, whether by trade, combat, over resources, then it's very difficult to describe what it is like and why people might be particularly keen on it.
Out of your list of aspects of EvE you hate, I agree with you about the ingame currency sales. I know why CCP did it, but I feel uneasy about it. The rest are integral to the game and can't really be changed.
Complexity and content? EvE's complexity stems from its simplicity. If you're only looking at missions as content, yeah EvE has less of that kind of content than the themepark MMOs that are the closest thing you can compare EvE's missions to. It's full of content though, whether storylines, ingame press reports, player interactions, GM live events, etc. CCP just added story archs as well, so there are epic stories. But the overwhelming content is what the players provide themselves. Each corp has its own history and makes its own mark on other corps and on the game itself. CCP's 'genius' was in adding just enough of an architecture for players to decide what they wanted to do in their own game.
If most themeparks are linear, in my opinion, EvE is entirely 3 dimensional. There are so many aspects of the game that come into play that it's very difficult to explain/describe what is going on. At face value, it looks like a simple game, but it has struck the perfect balance between simplicity and complexity that eggs players who like this kind of genre on. WoW, LotRO, recent DAoC, WAR, etc., seem at face value to be complex, but actually, they are simple because there aren't as many aspects coming into play everytime you log in. There is nothing wrong with that at all, it's just a different genre of gameplay. I happen to like both <shrug> . Shame that you can't understand that and feel put out by the vast majority of EvE players.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
Which of the sci-fi MMOs that take place in space allow you to explore planets?
Which of the sci-fi MMOs that take in place on a planet allow you to explore space?
I'm curious what the basis of this 'simplest of expectations' is.
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Cus vets love buying move accounts.
pretty much this. I believe eve will be there not only for the next few years, it will be there for the next decades.
WoW might be more popular, but theres only one game that is always at the cutting edge of mmo technology: you guess it, its eve online.
pretty much this. I believe eve will be there not only for the next few years, it will be there for the next decades.
WoW might be more popular, but theres only one game that is always at the cutting edge of mmo technology: you guess it, its eve online.
I think it's pretty far-fetched to assume any piece of software will still be relevant in 20 years from now. I also disagree that Eve is the cutting edge of technology. Graphically it does stand up pretty good, but I don't think that holds true in other areas.
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