Edit: when I say it changed the genre I mostly speak of mechanics and games becoming easier. I dont really care how many people the game brought in considering most of those people actually want easy games.
What exactly is easier about wow? Please explain it without littering your post by calling people retards or children, because honestly when you do that it makes your opinions shallow and unbelievable. If you have to insult millions of people or baselessly generalize them to validate your views, then you are nothing short of failing to have a valid opinion.
Does a game need extreme death penalities? Hard to understaind user interfaces? Does requires 10 times more experience make something difficult? What is it that makes other games "hard", because I bet you can't name one fantasy mmo that I couldn't drop a hundred wow players in and they would have an equal amount of success in. That is, if they are good in wow they will be good in X game, just like if they suck in wow they will suck in another game.
What you are doing is looking for a scape goat to blame for the lack of a decent non-casual friendly game. You want to ignore years of gaming evolution towards more casual and solo friendly gameplay and lay the entire blame for it at the doorsteps of one game. It is not blizzards fault that so many other companies have failed to deliver a non-casual friendly game. It isn't for a lack of trying either, because many have.
You want to blame blizzard for the mess that resulted from so many horrible game releases, fine. Lets just run around giving companies "Nice try" second place ribbons so that no one loses. Obviously the problem is the company the succeeds and we should ignore those that fail, because we can blame it on someone else.
I could go on and on and list 20+ ways WoW is easy but I will personally bring up the main one that effected me.
For me Other then character progressions and customization (both are very limited in WoW) I enjoy Social aspects of my MMOs.
I like that community feeling where everyone knows one another and everyone needs each other.
Well first WoW designed a game world that was totally soloable, killing the need for groups while leveling. Why will people group if you can easily do everything solo and get mroe loot and gold. They also added in a penalty to grouping you get less XP in a group so right there the entire player base became greedy and anti-social.
They made mobs easy, questing easy and basically made everyone that enjoyed grouping suffer a penalty.
This killed hunting in groups, this killed group questing, socializing and RP all with that one decision.
And the rest of the genre followed.
To the rest of your post, no I dont think Advance UIs and mechanics that just make thing hard for no reason is good either. I;ve never been the one to like MMOs without maps, ive never attacked WoW for a mod friendly UI, I like that stuff.
And no i dont think deep MMos failed so i wouldnt be pissed about WoW. I enjoy the two games I play Atm very much (Eve and Ryzom).
Anyway, if the OP asked me what was my top ten bigest let downs I would start with WoW, then move to Swg, eq2 and on and on so no I dont totally remove responsibility from those other lame games that released. I only had the choice of One and for me to pick one I would have to select the game that started the movement and became mainstream for it.
Lol. Yeah, they made it a game where you solo, want to know why?
Lets look at Blizzards main player : 10-15 year old high school kid. They catered to dumb anti-social high school kids. Of course they couldn't have a game where grouping was required. The kids would try to solo it or something stupid. Also, who wants to group with them anyway? If you've ever raided in WoW you know what vent sounds like. The quality of the player in WoW is extremely low.
Like, you could take trash players from Everquest and they would be at the same level as the people doing world-firsts in WoW. It's like the people in WoW are somewhat mindless and can't even follow basic strategies too. Like, all of the WoW encounters are posted online & wel known, yet guilds find it impossible to do end-game content even after it's been nerfed several times, I wonder why?
Seriously, who wants to play an MMO with 10-15 yr olds who are really dumb and can't follow basic strategies. You know that saying. Beating WoW is like winning the special olympics, Even if you beat WoW, well you get the point
but no1 was definatly Darkfall, and im not a hater of it .. i rather feel sorry that they couldnt deliver what they once promised with such a big mouth ..thats why i never touch(ed or will)it . And i see no sun going up on the mmo horizon these days.
For me Other then character progressions and customization (both are very limited in WoW) I enjoy Social aspects of my MMOs. I like that community feeling where everyone knows one another and everyone needs each other. Well first WoW designed a game world that was totally soloable, killing the need for groups while leveling. Why will people group if you can easily do everything solo and get mroe loot and gold. They also added in a penalty to grouping you get less XP in a group so right there the entire player base became greedy and anti-social.
Hear, fucking, hear. This was the MOST dissappointing thing in MMOs. MMOs were about cooperation, as that was the best way to advance your personal goals. Then came along WOW and they removed the need to cooperate and all MMOs since then have followed suit trying to hop aboard the money train. Now MMOs are all about memememememe, glad these new crops of games are teaching our youth such outstanding morals. Ripoff who you can and step on anyone if you need to get ahead, I guess that the American Way, so in a way it makes sense. To be honest I'm suprised the Chinese government allows such morals to corrupt their people.
Pirates of the Burning Sea was the biggest disappointment. It was a game that was supposed to break molds and offer a new dimension of fun to MMOs, except the developers couldn't find a way to make it enjoyable once beta ended and the population on the servers increased.
A very close second: Vanguard. Specifically, the anticlimax of my first experience of their Diplomacy system.
Does our core gamer = WoW's casual gamer? I don't have their internal data, obviously, but I doubt it.
Our core gamer is someone who plays 2-4 hours every night, occasionally spending a full day or so raiding, but who is normally focussed on challenging group oriented gameplay. The casual and raid gamer will indeed have content for them, but the core gamer is our focus. So also is creating a more challenging and longer term game -- a home.
I do know the average EQ player earlier on (launch->Velious) and it is their playstyle and time commitment whom we are targeting primarily.
Those who raided full time were about 6-10% of the player base.
Mine probably sounds odd. But for me it was EQ 2. I don't think it's a bad game really and it's gotten a lot better. But I was still riding on my EQ1 high and I picked up EQ2. Compared to EQ1, EQ2 seemed so bland and plastic looking. In EQ1 I could feel fear when I ran through places like Kith at night. The sounds and visuals really pulled me into that game. Not sure if it makes sense, but I felt like I was part of the world in EQ1, not playing a game.
Since then it'd be WAR or AOC. This is just for myself. But I was so disappointed in those two games, I haven't really played an MMO since. Honestly most MMO's kind of bum me out. It's all about the soloing and the carbon copy classes.
For me personally would have to be WoW, I bought the box instead of doing the trial, because all those people couldn't be wrong, and damn me they were!!!
For me it was SWG. I was a huge Star Wars fan growing up and always fantasized over a Star Wars MMO, when I heard one was in development I couldn't wait. My high hopes led me to disappointment I suppose but the game was not very good either.
I don't think Bioware will be disappointing me with SWTOR however!
Biggest let down in MMORPG history? The pile of shit some posters do show when they talk about the number one MMORPG. It shows just how weird some twisted folks think about .... video games. At the other end most of these guys worship "games"(?!?!) which wouldn't even exist if it weren't for Blizzard.
Upped to be back on topic and not let the anti Wow troll control the thread.
Forum posts (and game hate found in these posts) contribute MORE to the fall of mmorpg's than actual in game experience/shortcomings.
Developpers actually believed at a certain moment there was even such a thing as "bored Wow gamers".
The fall in number of subs of those games proved this theory is simply ... "wrong".
Sub numbers in no way relate to the quality of a Game, same goes for music, movies and other forms of entertainment.
Games like Eve, ryzom, UO, AC, AO, DAoC, EQ, and SWG pre-Nge were massive leaps in creativity and were truely World simulations. WoW is a childs toy compared to these games.
popularity means Dick when discussing quality in games or any other form of entertainment!
And so that's why WotLK was Nr1 on the internet in 2008?
Critical acclaim from 34 of the biggest reviewers shows WotlK was the number one PC game in 2008.
Critical acclaim AND having (by far) the biggest popularity is something else. That's called : consensus of success.
-----
Nope, it is clear : the biggest let down in present day mmorpg's are "some" players who lost all sense of reality of what simply makes ... a GOOD game design.
And HATE about a game doesn't contribute anything to this discussion.
Because those reviewers would look like total assholes if they wrote what they really thought of WoW.
Think about it. you dont slam a game 11.5 million people play, You would lose all credibility.
I have nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth, WoW is simplistic kiddie crap!!!!
I find it funny that every one of those reviews are too afraid to point out that every aspect of WoW is below average compared to MMOs that came before it!!!!!!
They could give it a "neutral" 7 or 8.
But the average of that critical acclaim is ... 92.50% and best rated PC game of 2008....
But how would you know actually, since you didn't even enter Northrend ? )) Prejudgement all over the place.
Northrend is boring.
Also, why do people say popstars who can't sing are good, or why do they play them over and over on the radio? That's what people like. Why does ESPN show LeBron James over and over? That's what people want. It is no different here. Also, anyone who thinks World of Warcraft was 'finished' at release is a joke. The game had no honor system, no arena, no battlegrounds.. Molten Core wasn't finished yet, and the only 60 instances were: Scholomance, Blackrock Spire and Stratholme.
I had so much invested into that game and SOE blew it, right in it's prime! It had the best online community I have seen in any MMORPG that I've played before and since. That was the biggest disappointment I have ever had with a gaming developer. Since then I refuse to play any SOE related products, also, I have become far less comfortable investing money in any MMORPG knowing that out of nowhere they could creep up and destroy everything you paid for. That had to be the biggest /fail in MMORPG history and certainly the most talked about.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
For me it was Tabula Rasa's death, I actually loved the game it was fun and different but hey it wasn't to be. The biggest disappointing launch was Warhammer I really thought it was going to be fun and full of action. Instead we got a game that looked crap the PvE was below average in the PvP was boring with little to no skill involved.
I hope Jumpgate won't be a disapointment as it actually looks like it could be really fun, as the biggest problem with EvE is it's combat as Jump looks like it will be a big improvement.
Originally posted by JGMIII In no way have I ever said I was superior in anyway to someone that plays a videogame. Saying someone likes simple and easy gameplay in no way makes them mentally handicapped. Also explain how you can prove an opinion wrong? We dont have any facts to go by really. LOL I love the "times have passed you by" comment. Goodtimes, this was fun. I guess we will have to Agree to disagree, I think WoW destroyed the genre and made the genre a place where people that want no challenge and simple gameplay =could come and newb it up. You disagree and think its the fault of the followers....... K. Laterz
You can say that it is your opinion that the united states created economics since it is the biggest economy in the world, but that doesn't make it incapable of being proved false just because you choose to label it an opinion.
Just like you blame wow for ruining the mmo industry for all the nonsense you lay at its doorstep, I showed you that the entire industry was already well traveled down that path.
As for your superiority comments, yes you do. Calling people idiots, retards and things of that nature iss exactly what you are doing. Maybe you don't realize it, because it flows off your tongue so quickly, but go read your comments again. You are trying to raise the value of your own opinion by tearing down and generalizing other people. Sorry, that doesn't make your views well thought out or insightful. It just makes you mean and insulting in place of real discussion.
Biggest let down in MMORPG history? The pile of shit some posters do show when they talk about the number one MMORPG. It shows just how weird some twisted folks think about .... video games. At the other end most of these guys worship "games"(?!?!) which wouldn't even exist if it weren't for Blizzard.
Upped to be back on topic and not let the anti Wow troll control the thread.
Forum posts (and game hate found in these posts) contribute MORE to the fall of mmorpg's than actual in game experience/shortcomings.
Developpers actually believed at a certain moment there was even such a thing as "bored Wow gamers".
The fall in number of subs of those games proved this theory is simply ... "wrong".
Sub numbers in no way relate to the quality of a Game, same goes for music, movies and other forms of entertainment.
Games like Eve, ryzom, UO, AC, AO, DAoC, EQ, and SWG pre-Nge were massive leaps in creativity and were truely World simulations. WoW is a childs toy compared to these games.
popularity means Dick when discussing quality in games or any other form of entertainment!
And so that's why WotLK was Nr1 on the internet in 2008?
Critical acclaim from 34 of the biggest reviewers shows WotlK was the number one PC game in 2008.
Critical acclaim AND having (by far) the biggest popularity is something else. That's called : consensus of success.
-----
Nope, it is clear : the biggest let down in present day mmorpg's are "some" players who lost all sense of reality of what simply makes ... a GOOD game design.
And HATE about a game doesn't contribute anything to this discussion.
Because those reviewers would look like total assholes if they wrote what they really thought of WoW.
Think about it. you dont slam a game 11.5 million people play, You would lose all credibility.
I have nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth, WoW is simplistic kiddie crap!!!!
I find it funny that every one of those reviews are too afraid to point out that every aspect of WoW is below average compared to MMOs that came before it!!!!!!
They could give it a "neutral" 7 or 8.
But the average of that critical acclaim is ... 92.50% and best rated PC game of 2008....
But how would you know actually, since you didn't even enter Northrend ? )) Prejudgement all over the place.
Northrend is boring.
Also, why do people say popstars who can't sing are good, or why do they play them over and over on the radio? That's what people like. Why does ESPN show LeBron James over and over? That's what people want. It is no different here. Also, anyone who thinks World of Warcraft was 'finished' at release is a joke. The game had no honor system, no arena, no battlegrounds.. Molten Core wasn't finished yet, and the only 60 instances were: Scholomance, Blackrock Spire and Stratholme.
Please tell me you didn't just put Lebron James in the same category as lame popstars..........
Originally posted by Ginkeq Lol. Yeah, they made it a game where you solo, want to know why? Lets look at Blizzards main player : 10-15 year old high school kid. They catered to dumb anti-social high school kids. Of course they couldn't have a game where grouping was required. The kids would try to solo it or something stupid. Also, who wants to group with them anyway? If you've ever raided in WoW you know what vent sounds like. The quality of the player in WoW is extremely low.
Like, you could take trash players from Everquest and they would be at the same level as the people doing world-firsts in WoW. It's like the people in WoW are somewhat mindless and can't even follow basic strategies too. Like, all of the WoW encounters are posted online & wel known, yet guilds find it impossible to do end-game content even after it's been nerfed several times, I wonder why?
Seriously, who wants to play an MMO with 10-15 yr olds who are really dumb and can't follow basic strategies. You know that saying. Beating WoW is like winning the special olympics, Even if you beat WoW, well you get the point
It is this kind of misinformation that makes you look bad.
Neilsen did a study of computer games and strangely enough they found the vast majority of wow players are 25+.
Something I don't think all you trash talkers take into consideration. I bet you any amount of money that wow has more former mmo subscribers from the everquest days than all of those games combined. Given the choice even old school players prefer wow. *shrug*. I guess calling everyone dumb anti-social children somehow makes your opinion sound valid though huh?
Biggest let down in MMORPG history? The pile of shit some posters do show when they talk about the number one MMORPG. It shows just how weird some twisted folks think about .... video games. At the other end most of these guys worship "games"(?!?!) which wouldn't even exist if it weren't for Blizzard.
Upped to be back on topic and not let the anti Wow troll control the thread.
Forum posts (and game hate found in these posts) contribute MORE to the fall of mmorpg's than actual in game experience/shortcomings.
Developpers actually believed at a certain moment there was even such a thing as "bored Wow gamers".
The fall in number of subs of those games proved this theory is simply ... "wrong".
Sub numbers in no way relate to the quality of a Game, same goes for music, movies and other forms of entertainment.
Games like Eve, ryzom, UO, AC, AO, DAoC, EQ, and SWG pre-Nge were massive leaps in creativity and were truely World simulations. WoW is a childs toy compared to these games.
popularity means Dick when discussing quality in games or any other form of entertainment!
And so that's why WotLK was Nr1 on the internet in 2008?
Critical acclaim from 34 of the biggest reviewers shows WotlK was the number one PC game in 2008.
Critical acclaim AND having (by far) the biggest popularity is something else. That's called : consensus of success.
-----
Nope, it is clear : the biggest let down in present day mmorpg's are "some" players who lost all sense of reality of what simply makes ... a GOOD game design.
And HATE about a game doesn't contribute anything to this discussion.
Because those reviewers would look like total assholes if they wrote what they really thought of WoW.
Think about it. you dont slam a game 11.5 million people play, You would lose all credibility.
I have nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth, WoW is simplistic kiddie crap!!!!
I find it funny that every one of those reviews are too afraid to point out that every aspect of WoW is below average compared to MMOs that came before it!!!!!!
They could give it a "neutral" 7 or 8.
But the average of that critical acclaim is ... 92.50% and best rated PC game of 2008....
But how would you know actually, since you didn't even enter Northrend ? )) Prejudgement all over the place.
Northrend is boring.
Also, why do people say popstars who can't sing are good, or why do they play them over and over on the radio? That's what people like. Why does ESPN show LeBron James over and over? That's what people want. It is no different here. Also, anyone who thinks World of Warcraft was 'finished' at release is a joke. The game had no honor system, no arena, no battlegrounds.. Molten Core wasn't finished yet, and the only 60 instances were: Scholomance, Blackrock Spire and Stratholme.
Battlegrounds ruined world PVP, I prefered it before all the bullshit came into the game because we were making our own fun like city raids and doing world PVP. However after battlegrounds all that died and PVP went to shit for me. I don't care for the honour system because I play online FPS like Counter Strike where you play for fun and not stats.
Biggest let down in MMORPG history? The pile of shit some posters do show when they talk about the number one MMORPG. It shows just how weird some twisted folks think about .... video games. At the other end most of these guys worship "games"(?!?!) which wouldn't even exist if it weren't for Blizzard.
Upped to be back on topic and not let the anti Wow troll control the thread.
Forum posts (and game hate found in these posts) contribute MORE to the fall of mmorpg's than actual in game experience/shortcomings.
Developpers actually believed at a certain moment there was even such a thing as "bored Wow gamers".
The fall in number of subs of those games proved this theory is simply ... "wrong".
Sub numbers in no way relate to the quality of a Game, same goes for music, movies and other forms of entertainment.
Games like Eve, ryzom, UO, AC, AO, DAoC, EQ, and SWG pre-Nge were massive leaps in creativity and were truely World simulations. WoW is a childs toy compared to these games.
popularity means Dick when discussing quality in games or any other form of entertainment!
And so that's why WotLK was Nr1 on the internet in 2008?
Critical acclaim from 34 of the biggest reviewers shows WotlK was the number one PC game in 2008.
Critical acclaim AND having (by far) the biggest popularity is something else. That's called : consensus of success.
-----
Nope, it is clear : the biggest let down in present day mmorpg's are "some" players who lost all sense of reality of what simply makes ... a GOOD game design.
And HATE about a game doesn't contribute anything to this discussion.
Because those reviewers would look like total assholes if they wrote what they really thought of WoW.
Think about it. you dont slam a game 11.5 million people play, You would lose all credibility.
I have nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth, WoW is simplistic kiddie crap!!!!
I find it funny that every one of those reviews are too afraid to point out that every aspect of WoW is below average compared to MMOs that came before it!!!!!!
They could give it a "neutral" 7 or 8.
But the average of that critical acclaim is ... 92.50% and best rated PC game of 2008....
But how would you know actually, since you didn't even enter Northrend ? )) Prejudgement all over the place.
Northrend is boring.
Also, why do people say popstars who can't sing are good, or why do they play them over and over on the radio? That's what people like. Why does ESPN show LeBron James over and over? That's what people want. It is no different here. Also, anyone who thinks World of Warcraft was 'finished' at release is a joke. The game had no honor system, no arena, no battlegrounds.. Molten Core wasn't finished yet, and the only 60 instances were: Scholomance, Blackrock Spire and Stratholme.
Battlegrounds ruined world PVP, I prefered it before all the bullshit came into the game because we were making our own fun like city raids and doing world PVP. However after battlegrounds all that died and PVP went to shit for me. I don't care for the honour system because I play online FPS like Counter Strike where you play for fun and not stats.
Agree completely with your post, but how in the world does this constitute "THE BIGGEST LET DOWN IN MMORPG HISTORY". I mean give me a break already.
WoW is such an easy target because of it's phenomenal unprecedented success. But to lump it in the same group as DDO, SWG, WAR, Darkfall, Dark & Light, etc, etc, is just mind-boggling to me.
there are 2 big letdowns for me in mmo history so far, the first was ea-games closing down earth and beyond, the 2nd would be WoW and all the companies that have tried to copy it since, it has become redundant.
The reason Blizzard put in the BG & Honor system was so they could save bandwidth.
On my server we would raid Undercity and within 10 minutes of us going in the whole continent would crash. The reason is that it's expensive to have massive battles that were permitted in older & better MMORPGS like everquest.
This is because the exchange of information is N to N basically. Their servers couldn't handle it so they put in BGs and shit.
The only people who enjoy doing arenas & BGs are retards. They aren't pvpers. If they were PvPers they wouldnt even play the game to begin with. What kind of PvPer would accept an artificial PvP system where you fight over worthless ratings & points. It's so fucking pointless its mind boggling. Apparently they couldn't work a real PvP system into their game because everything in the game is instanced. Garbage ass game. It wouldve had potential to be a good game without instances but no, they catered to morons who can't handle competition
The reason Blizzard put in the BG & Honor system was so they could save bandwidth. On my server we would raid Undercity and within 10 minutes of us going in the whole continent would crash. The reason is that it's expensive to have massive battles that were permitted in older & better MMORPGS like everquest. This is because the exchange of information is N to N basically. Their servers couldn't handle it so they put in BGs and shit. The only people who enjoy doing arenas & BGs are retards. They aren't pvpers. If they were PvPers they wouldnt even play the game to begin with. What kind of PvPer would accept an artificial PvP system where you fight over worthless ratings & points. It's so fucking pointless its mind boggling. Apparently they couldn't work a real PvP system into their game because everything in the game is instanced. Garbage ass game. It wouldve had potential to be a good game without instances but no, they catered to morons who can't handle competition
LOL!!!!!!
Ginkeq could take over he's pretty awesome at ripping the WoW fans apart.
The reason Blizzard put in the BG & Honor system was so they could save bandwidth. On my server we would raid Undercity and within 10 minutes of us going in the whole continent would crash. The reason is that it's expensive to have massive battles that were permitted in older & better MMORPGS like everquest. This is because the exchange of information is N to N basically. Their servers couldn't handle it so they put in BGs and shit. The only people who enjoy doing arenas & BGs are retards. They aren't pvpers. If they were PvPers they wouldnt even play the game to begin with. What kind of PvPer would accept an artificial PvP system where you fight over worthless ratings & points. It's so fucking pointless its mind boggling. Apparently they couldn't work a real PvP system into their game because everything in the game is instanced. Garbage ass game. It wouldve had potential to be a good game without instances but no, they catered to morons who can't handle competition
LOL!!!!!!
Ginkeq could take over he's pretty awesome at ripping the WoW fans apart.
You're ruthless dude.
Actually he is wrong which is why he has to resort to calling people retards if they disagree with his views.
He might as well just say "I hate ____ and anyone that thinks differently is retarded", much like you do.
The reason Blizzard put in the BG & Honor system was so they could save bandwidth. On my server we would raid Undercity and within 10 minutes of us going in the whole continent would crash. The reason is that it's expensive to have massive battles that were permitted in older & better MMORPGS like everquest. This is because the exchange of information is N to N basically. Their servers couldn't handle it so they put in BGs and shit. The only people who enjoy doing arenas & BGs are retards. They aren't pvpers. If they were PvPers they wouldnt even play the game to begin with. What kind of PvPer would accept an artificial PvP system where you fight over worthless ratings & points. It's so fucking pointless its mind boggling. Apparently they couldn't work a real PvP system into their game because everything in the game is instanced. Garbage ass game. It wouldve had potential to be a good game without instances but no, they catered to morons who can't handle competition
LOL!!!!!!
Ginkeq could take over he's pretty awesome at ripping the WoW fans apart.
You're ruthless dude.
Actually he is wrong which is why he has to resort to calling people retards if they disagree with his views.
He might as well just say "I hate ____ and anyone that thinks differently is retarded", much like you do.
Where am I wrong?
In this post I told you why they are using instances. Is that wrong?
Lets see, originally there was World PvP, servers crashed, etc.
Then came AV, 40 x 40s, WSG 10x10 and AB 15x15
Now what is it down to? 5x5, 3x3, and 2x2 (most common)
Next it will just be duels, that will save blizzard the most money and give players the fakest and most worthless PvP system ever.
And yes anyone who thinks that PvP system they have there is somehow real, or fun, is stupid, and never played a real PvP game like EQ. Fighting for worthless points is worthless
The reason Blizzard put in the BG & Honor system was so they could save bandwidth. On my server we would raid Undercity and within 10 minutes of us going in the whole continent would crash. The reason is that it's expensive to have massive battles that were permitted in older & better MMORPGS like everquest. This is because the exchange of information is N to N basically. Their servers couldn't handle it so they put in BGs and shit. The only people who enjoy doing arenas & BGs are retards. They aren't pvpers. If they were PvPers they wouldnt even play the game to begin with. What kind of PvPer would accept an artificial PvP system where you fight over worthless ratings & points. It's so fucking pointless its mind boggling. Apparently they couldn't work a real PvP system into their game because everything in the game is instanced. Garbage ass game. It wouldve had potential to be a good game without instances but no, they catered to morons who can't handle competition
LOL!!!!!!
Ginkeq could take over he's pretty awesome at ripping the WoW fans apart.
You're ruthless dude.
Actually he is wrong which is why he has to resort to calling people retards if they disagree with his views.
He might as well just say "I hate ____ and anyone that thinks differently is retarded", much like you do.
Where am I wrong?
In this post I told you why they are using instances. Is that wrong?
Lets see, originally there was World PvP, servers crashed, etc.
Then came AV, 40 x 40s, WSG 10x10 and AB 15x15
Now what is it down to? 5x5, 3x3, and 2x2 (most common)
Next it will just be duels, that will save blizzard the most money and give players the fakest and most worthless PvP system ever.
And yes anyone who thinks that PvP system they have there is somehow real, or fun, is stupid, and never played a real PvP game like EQ. Fighting for worthless points is worthless
sounds pretty spot on to me....
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Comments
Pfft, THQ is one of THE WORST developers in gaming history (they still are imo). Dont believe me, look up some of their old NES games.
What exactly is easier about wow? Please explain it without littering your post by calling people retards or children, because honestly when you do that it makes your opinions shallow and unbelievable. If you have to insult millions of people or baselessly generalize them to validate your views, then you are nothing short of failing to have a valid opinion.
Does a game need extreme death penalities? Hard to understaind user interfaces? Does requires 10 times more experience make something difficult? What is it that makes other games "hard", because I bet you can't name one fantasy mmo that I couldn't drop a hundred wow players in and they would have an equal amount of success in. That is, if they are good in wow they will be good in X game, just like if they suck in wow they will suck in another game.
What you are doing is looking for a scape goat to blame for the lack of a decent non-casual friendly game. You want to ignore years of gaming evolution towards more casual and solo friendly gameplay and lay the entire blame for it at the doorsteps of one game. It is not blizzards fault that so many other companies have failed to deliver a non-casual friendly game. It isn't for a lack of trying either, because many have.
You want to blame blizzard for the mess that resulted from so many horrible game releases, fine. Lets just run around giving companies "Nice try" second place ribbons so that no one loses. Obviously the problem is the company the succeeds and we should ignore those that fail, because we can blame it on someone else.
I could go on and on and list 20+ ways WoW is easy but I will personally bring up the main one that effected me.
For me Other then character progressions and customization (both are very limited in WoW) I enjoy Social aspects of my MMOs.
I like that community feeling where everyone knows one another and everyone needs each other.
Well first WoW designed a game world that was totally soloable, killing the need for groups while leveling. Why will people group if you can easily do everything solo and get mroe loot and gold. They also added in a penalty to grouping you get less XP in a group so right there the entire player base became greedy and anti-social.
They made mobs easy, questing easy and basically made everyone that enjoyed grouping suffer a penalty.
This killed hunting in groups, this killed group questing, socializing and RP all with that one decision.
And the rest of the genre followed.
To the rest of your post, no I dont think Advance UIs and mechanics that just make thing hard for no reason is good either. I;ve never been the one to like MMOs without maps, ive never attacked WoW for a mod friendly UI, I like that stuff.
And no i dont think deep MMos failed so i wouldnt be pissed about WoW. I enjoy the two games I play Atm very much (Eve and Ryzom).
Anyway, if the OP asked me what was my top ten bigest let downs I would start with WoW, then move to Swg, eq2 and on and on so no I dont totally remove responsibility from those other lame games that released. I only had the choice of One and for me to pick one I would have to select the game that started the movement and became mainstream for it.
Lol. Yeah, they made it a game where you solo, want to know why?
Lets look at Blizzards main player : 10-15 year old high school kid. They catered to dumb anti-social high school kids. Of course they couldn't have a game where grouping was required. The kids would try to solo it or something stupid. Also, who wants to group with them anyway? If you've ever raided in WoW you know what vent sounds like. The quality of the player in WoW is extremely low.
Like, you could take trash players from Everquest and they would be at the same level as the people doing world-firsts in WoW. It's like the people in WoW are somewhat mindless and can't even follow basic strategies too. Like, all of the WoW encounters are posted online & wel known, yet guilds find it impossible to do end-game content even after it's been nerfed several times, I wonder why?
Seriously, who wants to play an MMO with 10-15 yr olds who are really dumb and can't follow basic strategies. You know that saying. Beating WoW is like winning the special olympics, Even if you beat WoW, well you get the point
The biggest mmo letdown for me ever was WAR, for all the obvious reasons.
Zoom
You can't blame Blizzard for making a good mmorpg : It's the other cevelopers making the shit mmorpgs you should blame.
UO2
but no1 was definatly Darkfall, and im not a hater of it .. i rather feel sorry that they couldnt deliver what they once promised with such a big mouth ..thats why i never touch(ed or will)it . And i see no sun going up on the mmo horizon these days.
Hear, fucking, hear. This was the MOST dissappointing thing in MMOs. MMOs were about cooperation, as that was the best way to advance your personal goals. Then came along WOW and they removed the need to cooperate and all MMOs since then have followed suit trying to hop aboard the money train. Now MMOs are all about memememememe, glad these new crops of games are teaching our youth such outstanding morals. Ripoff who you can and step on anyone if you need to get ahead, I guess that the American Way, so in a way it makes sense. To be honest I'm suprised the Chinese government allows such morals to corrupt their people.
Pirates of the Burning Sea was the biggest disappointment. It was a game that was supposed to break molds and offer a new dimension of fun to MMOs, except the developers couldn't find a way to make it enjoyable once beta ended and the population on the servers increased.
A very close second: Vanguard. Specifically, the anticlimax of my first experience of their Diplomacy system.
I didnt read all 10 pages but regarding Vanguards expectations
it was always targeting old EQ players -- not WOW players and not a WOW killer
from Brad/Aradune
www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/18145-sigil-defines-core-gamers-re-vanguard-6.html#post424297
the game's primary audience is the 'core' gamer
Does our core gamer = WoW's casual gamer? I don't have their internal data, obviously, but I doubt it.
Our core gamer is someone who plays 2-4 hours every night, occasionally spending a full day or so raiding, but who is normally focussed on challenging group oriented gameplay. The casual and raid gamer will indeed have content for them, but the core gamer is our focus. So also is creating a more challenging and longer term game -- a home.
I do know the average EQ player earlier on (launch->Velious) and it is their playstyle and time commitment whom we are targeting primarily.
Those who raided full time were about 6-10% of the player base.
EQ2 fan sites
Mine probably sounds odd. But for me it was EQ 2. I don't think it's a bad game really and it's gotten a lot better. But I was still riding on my EQ1 high and I picked up EQ2. Compared to EQ1, EQ2 seemed so bland and plastic looking. In EQ1 I could feel fear when I ran through places like Kith at night. The sounds and visuals really pulled me into that game. Not sure if it makes sense, but I felt like I was part of the world in EQ1, not playing a game.
Since then it'd be WAR or AOC. This is just for myself. But I was so disappointed in those two games, I haven't really played an MMO since. Honestly most MMO's kind of bum me out. It's all about the soloing and the carbon copy classes.
For me personally would have to be WoW, I bought the box instead of doing the trial, because all those people couldn't be wrong, and damn me they were!!!
For me it was SWG. I was a huge Star Wars fan growing up and always fantasized over a Star Wars MMO, when I heard one was in development I couldn't wait. My high hopes led me to disappointment I suppose but the game was not very good either.
I don't think Bioware will be disappointing me with SWTOR however!
Upped to be back on topic and not let the anti Wow troll control the thread.
Forum posts (and game hate found in these posts) contribute MORE to the fall of mmorpg's than actual in game experience/shortcomings.
Developpers actually believed at a certain moment there was even such a thing as "bored Wow gamers".
The fall in number of subs of those games proved this theory is simply ... "wrong".
Sub numbers in no way relate to the quality of a Game, same goes for music, movies and other forms of entertainment.
Games like Eve, ryzom, UO, AC, AO, DAoC, EQ, and SWG pre-Nge were massive leaps in creativity and were truely World simulations. WoW is a childs toy compared to these games.
popularity means Dick when discussing quality in games or any other form of entertainment!
And so that's why WotLK was Nr1 on the internet in 2008?
http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/942519-world-of-warcraft-wrath-of-the-lich-king/index.html
Critical acclaim from 34 of the biggest reviewers shows WotlK was the number one PC game in 2008.
Critical acclaim AND having (by far) the biggest popularity is something else. That's called : consensus of success.
-----
Nope, it is clear : the biggest let down in present day mmorpg's are "some" players who lost all sense of reality of what simply makes ... a GOOD game design.
And HATE about a game doesn't contribute anything to this discussion.
Because those reviewers would look like total assholes if they wrote what they really thought of WoW.
Think about it. you dont slam a game 11.5 million people play, You would lose all credibility.
I have nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth, WoW is simplistic kiddie crap!!!!
I find it funny that every one of those reviews are too afraid to point out that every aspect of WoW is below average compared to MMOs that came before it!!!!!!
They could give it a "neutral" 7 or 8.
But the average of that critical acclaim is ... 92.50% and best rated PC game of 2008....
But how would you know actually, since you didn't even enter Northrend ?
)) Prejudgement all over the place.
Northrend is boring.
Also, why do people say popstars who can't sing are good, or why do they play them over and over on the radio? That's what people like. Why does ESPN show LeBron James over and over? That's what people want. It is no different here. Also, anyone who thinks World of Warcraft was 'finished' at release is a joke. The game had no honor system, no arena, no battlegrounds.. Molten Core wasn't finished yet, and the only 60 instances were: Scholomance, Blackrock Spire and Stratholme.
Three words: Star Wars Galaxies
I had so much invested into that game and SOE blew it, right in it's prime! It had the best online community I have seen in any MMORPG that I've played before and since. That was the biggest disappointment I have ever had with a gaming developer. Since then I refuse to play any SOE related products, also, I have become far less comfortable investing money in any MMORPG knowing that out of nowhere they could creep up and destroy everything you paid for. That had to be the biggest /fail in MMORPG history and certainly the most talked about.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
For me it was Tabula Rasa's death, I actually loved the game it was fun and different but hey it wasn't to be. The biggest disappointing launch was Warhammer I really thought it was going to be fun and full of action. Instead we got a game that looked crap the PvE was below average in the PvP was boring with little to no skill involved.
I hope Jumpgate won't be a disapointment as it actually looks like it could be really fun, as the biggest problem with EvE is it's combat as Jump looks like it will be a big improvement.
You can say that it is your opinion that the united states created economics since it is the biggest economy in the world, but that doesn't make it incapable of being proved false just because you choose to label it an opinion.
Just like you blame wow for ruining the mmo industry for all the nonsense you lay at its doorstep, I showed you that the entire industry was already well traveled down that path.
As for your superiority comments, yes you do. Calling people idiots, retards and things of that nature iss exactly what you are doing. Maybe you don't realize it, because it flows off your tongue so quickly, but go read your comments again. You are trying to raise the value of your own opinion by tearing down and generalizing other people. Sorry, that doesn't make your views well thought out or insightful. It just makes you mean and insulting in place of real discussion.
Upped to be back on topic and not let the anti Wow troll control the thread.
Forum posts (and game hate found in these posts) contribute MORE to the fall of mmorpg's than actual in game experience/shortcomings.
Developpers actually believed at a certain moment there was even such a thing as "bored Wow gamers".
The fall in number of subs of those games proved this theory is simply ... "wrong".
Sub numbers in no way relate to the quality of a Game, same goes for music, movies and other forms of entertainment.
Games like Eve, ryzom, UO, AC, AO, DAoC, EQ, and SWG pre-Nge were massive leaps in creativity and were truely World simulations. WoW is a childs toy compared to these games.
popularity means Dick when discussing quality in games or any other form of entertainment!
And so that's why WotLK was Nr1 on the internet in 2008?
http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/942519-world-of-warcraft-wrath-of-the-lich-king/index.html
Critical acclaim from 34 of the biggest reviewers shows WotlK was the number one PC game in 2008.
Critical acclaim AND having (by far) the biggest popularity is something else. That's called : consensus of success.
-----
Nope, it is clear : the biggest let down in present day mmorpg's are "some" players who lost all sense of reality of what simply makes ... a GOOD game design.
And HATE about a game doesn't contribute anything to this discussion.
Because those reviewers would look like total assholes if they wrote what they really thought of WoW.
Think about it. you dont slam a game 11.5 million people play, You would lose all credibility.
I have nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth, WoW is simplistic kiddie crap!!!!
I find it funny that every one of those reviews are too afraid to point out that every aspect of WoW is below average compared to MMOs that came before it!!!!!!
They could give it a "neutral" 7 or 8.
But the average of that critical acclaim is ... 92.50% and best rated PC game of 2008....
But how would you know actually, since you didn't even enter Northrend ?
)) Prejudgement all over the place.
Northrend is boring.
Also, why do people say popstars who can't sing are good, or why do they play them over and over on the radio? That's what people like. Why does ESPN show LeBron James over and over? That's what people want. It is no different here. Also, anyone who thinks World of Warcraft was 'finished' at release is a joke. The game had no honor system, no arena, no battlegrounds.. Molten Core wasn't finished yet, and the only 60 instances were: Scholomance, Blackrock Spire and Stratholme.
Please tell me you didn't just put Lebron James in the same category as lame popstars..........
It is this kind of misinformation that makes you look bad.
Neilsen did a study of computer games and strangely enough they found the vast majority of wow players are 25+.
blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/stateofvgamer_040609_fnl1.pdf
Something I don't think all you trash talkers take into consideration. I bet you any amount of money that wow has more former mmo subscribers from the everquest days than all of those games combined. Given the choice even old school players prefer wow. *shrug*. I guess calling everyone dumb anti-social children somehow makes your opinion sound valid though huh?
Good luck with that.
Upped to be back on topic and not let the anti Wow troll control the thread.
Forum posts (and game hate found in these posts) contribute MORE to the fall of mmorpg's than actual in game experience/shortcomings.
Developpers actually believed at a certain moment there was even such a thing as "bored Wow gamers".
The fall in number of subs of those games proved this theory is simply ... "wrong".
Sub numbers in no way relate to the quality of a Game, same goes for music, movies and other forms of entertainment.
Games like Eve, ryzom, UO, AC, AO, DAoC, EQ, and SWG pre-Nge were massive leaps in creativity and were truely World simulations. WoW is a childs toy compared to these games.
popularity means Dick when discussing quality in games or any other form of entertainment!
And so that's why WotLK was Nr1 on the internet in 2008?
http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/942519-world-of-warcraft-wrath-of-the-lich-king/index.html
Critical acclaim from 34 of the biggest reviewers shows WotlK was the number one PC game in 2008.
Critical acclaim AND having (by far) the biggest popularity is something else. That's called : consensus of success.
-----
Nope, it is clear : the biggest let down in present day mmorpg's are "some" players who lost all sense of reality of what simply makes ... a GOOD game design.
And HATE about a game doesn't contribute anything to this discussion.
Because those reviewers would look like total assholes if they wrote what they really thought of WoW.
Think about it. you dont slam a game 11.5 million people play, You would lose all credibility.
I have nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth, WoW is simplistic kiddie crap!!!!
I find it funny that every one of those reviews are too afraid to point out that every aspect of WoW is below average compared to MMOs that came before it!!!!!!
They could give it a "neutral" 7 or 8.
But the average of that critical acclaim is ... 92.50% and best rated PC game of 2008....
But how would you know actually, since you didn't even enter Northrend ?
)) Prejudgement all over the place.
Northrend is boring.
Also, why do people say popstars who can't sing are good, or why do they play them over and over on the radio? That's what people like. Why does ESPN show LeBron James over and over? That's what people want. It is no different here. Also, anyone who thinks World of Warcraft was 'finished' at release is a joke. The game had no honor system, no arena, no battlegrounds.. Molten Core wasn't finished yet, and the only 60 instances were: Scholomance, Blackrock Spire and Stratholme.
Battlegrounds ruined world PVP, I prefered it before all the bullshit came into the game because we were making our own fun like city raids and doing world PVP. However after battlegrounds all that died and PVP went to shit for me. I don't care for the honour system because I play online FPS like Counter Strike where you play for fun and not stats.
Upped to be back on topic and not let the anti Wow troll control the thread.
Forum posts (and game hate found in these posts) contribute MORE to the fall of mmorpg's than actual in game experience/shortcomings.
Developpers actually believed at a certain moment there was even such a thing as "bored Wow gamers".
The fall in number of subs of those games proved this theory is simply ... "wrong".
Sub numbers in no way relate to the quality of a Game, same goes for music, movies and other forms of entertainment.
Games like Eve, ryzom, UO, AC, AO, DAoC, EQ, and SWG pre-Nge were massive leaps in creativity and were truely World simulations. WoW is a childs toy compared to these games.
popularity means Dick when discussing quality in games or any other form of entertainment!
And so that's why WotLK was Nr1 on the internet in 2008?
http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/942519-world-of-warcraft-wrath-of-the-lich-king/index.html
Critical acclaim from 34 of the biggest reviewers shows WotlK was the number one PC game in 2008.
Critical acclaim AND having (by far) the biggest popularity is something else. That's called : consensus of success.
-----
Nope, it is clear : the biggest let down in present day mmorpg's are "some" players who lost all sense of reality of what simply makes ... a GOOD game design.
And HATE about a game doesn't contribute anything to this discussion.
Because those reviewers would look like total assholes if they wrote what they really thought of WoW.
Think about it. you dont slam a game 11.5 million people play, You would lose all credibility.
I have nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth, WoW is simplistic kiddie crap!!!!
I find it funny that every one of those reviews are too afraid to point out that every aspect of WoW is below average compared to MMOs that came before it!!!!!!
They could give it a "neutral" 7 or 8.
But the average of that critical acclaim is ... 92.50% and best rated PC game of 2008....
But how would you know actually, since you didn't even enter Northrend ?
)) Prejudgement all over the place.
Northrend is boring.
Also, why do people say popstars who can't sing are good, or why do they play them over and over on the radio? That's what people like. Why does ESPN show LeBron James over and over? That's what people want. It is no different here. Also, anyone who thinks World of Warcraft was 'finished' at release is a joke. The game had no honor system, no arena, no battlegrounds.. Molten Core wasn't finished yet, and the only 60 instances were: Scholomance, Blackrock Spire and Stratholme.
Battlegrounds ruined world PVP, I prefered it before all the bullshit came into the game because we were making our own fun like city raids and doing world PVP. However after battlegrounds all that died and PVP went to shit for me. I don't care for the honour system because I play online FPS like Counter Strike where you play for fun and not stats.
Agree completely with your post, but how in the world does this constitute "THE BIGGEST LET DOWN IN MMORPG HISTORY". I mean give me a break already.
WoW is such an easy target because of it's phenomenal unprecedented success. But to lump it in the same group as DDO, SWG, WAR, Darkfall, Dark & Light, etc, etc, is just mind-boggling to me.
there are 2 big letdowns for me in mmo history so far, the first was ea-games closing down earth and beyond, the 2nd would be WoW and all the companies that have tried to copy it since, it has become redundant.
playing eq2 and two worlds
The reason Blizzard put in the BG & Honor system was so they could save bandwidth.
On my server we would raid Undercity and within 10 minutes of us going in the whole continent would crash. The reason is that it's expensive to have massive battles that were permitted in older & better MMORPGS like everquest.
This is because the exchange of information is N to N basically. Their servers couldn't handle it so they put in BGs and shit.
The only people who enjoy doing arenas & BGs are retards. They aren't pvpers. If they were PvPers they wouldnt even play the game to begin with. What kind of PvPer would accept an artificial PvP system where you fight over worthless ratings & points. It's so fucking pointless its mind boggling. Apparently they couldn't work a real PvP system into their game because everything in the game is instanced. Garbage ass game. It wouldve had potential to be a good game without instances but no, they catered to morons who can't handle competition
LOL!!!!!!
Ginkeq could take over he's pretty awesome at ripping the WoW fans apart.
You're ruthless dude.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
LOL!!!!!!
Ginkeq could take over he's pretty awesome at ripping the WoW fans apart.
You're ruthless dude.
Actually he is wrong which is why he has to resort to calling people retards if they disagree with his views.
He might as well just say "I hate ____ and anyone that thinks differently is retarded", much like you do.
LOL!!!!!!
Ginkeq could take over he's pretty awesome at ripping the WoW fans apart.
You're ruthless dude.
Actually he is wrong which is why he has to resort to calling people retards if they disagree with his views.
He might as well just say "I hate ____ and anyone that thinks differently is retarded", much like you do.
Where am I wrong?
In this post I told you why they are using instances. Is that wrong?
Lets see, originally there was World PvP, servers crashed, etc.
Then came AV, 40 x 40s, WSG 10x10 and AB 15x15
Now what is it down to? 5x5, 3x3, and 2x2 (most common)
Next it will just be duels, that will save blizzard the most money and give players the fakest and most worthless PvP system ever.
And yes anyone who thinks that PvP system they have there is somehow real, or fun, is stupid, and never played a real PvP game like EQ. Fighting for worthless points is worthless
LOL!!!!!!
Ginkeq could take over he's pretty awesome at ripping the WoW fans apart.
You're ruthless dude.
Actually he is wrong which is why he has to resort to calling people retards if they disagree with his views.
He might as well just say "I hate ____ and anyone that thinks differently is retarded", much like you do.
Where am I wrong?
In this post I told you why they are using instances. Is that wrong?
Lets see, originally there was World PvP, servers crashed, etc.
Then came AV, 40 x 40s, WSG 10x10 and AB 15x15
Now what is it down to? 5x5, 3x3, and 2x2 (most common)
Next it will just be duels, that will save blizzard the most money and give players the fakest and most worthless PvP system ever.
And yes anyone who thinks that PvP system they have there is somehow real, or fun, is stupid, and never played a real PvP game like EQ. Fighting for worthless points is worthless
sounds pretty spot on to me....
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."