SWG , NGE never saw as a gamer one patch that turned so many against a developers that caused actions to include not trusting them for future releases to affecting purchasing of products this company produced.
Yeah wow opened servers and suddenly other companies couldn't release half finished games anymore and get praised for doing so. Oh noes!!1!1!11eleven!!11!! the big boy games can't compete anymore so lets all blame one company for taking their time and delivering a quality product.
Everyone I would like to show you the type of player WoW brought to the genre.
These players lack patience, this guy has no idea that Every MMO released was somewhat unfinished and evolved over the next few months to a year after release.
WoW also release unfinished and with bugs my friend, its only that you're are new to the genre that you think every MMO needs to release in the quality of Wotlk.
If you were an older MMO player you would even talk of unfinished games at release because thats just how it is.
What a bunch of complete CRAP.
Any proof for your social study ?
Of course not.
I have one proof though: you don't even play WotLK these days.
So you have NO idea that Ulduar is simply the best RAID instance Blizzard delivered.
You have NO idea about the mounted combat, the present state of its MUCH played PvP after patch 3.1, the Lake Wintergrasp destructable fortress and towers, the DUAL specs, ...
Still insulting Wow players in general in your posts that is about the only thing you can come up with these days. ("I would come back to Wow if they only had 40 men Raids", yeah another thread of yourself).
Blizzard placed MMORPG's on the evening NEWS.
Tx to Blizzard you can still whine on these forums to play CRAPPED underdevelopped games.
I know the one who sucks here BIG ... and it is NOT the most succesful PC developper....
Zorn you don't even play WoW.
You defend it blindly and while all else fails you toss up a sub numbers link.
WoW is garbage, you know it, I know it. You a troll son!!!!!!
IDIOTS.
And yet your the one that's defending such a lame PoS game that you don't event play.
:I builds me a helicoptaaa....... Lookz at meez endgame!!!!!
Thank god for WoW, they have one game to hold all you people.... stay out of the real MMOS!
builds me a helicoptaaaaa.... kinda sum the whole game up! goo job =D m0lly agrees
In your opinion WOW is a POS as you put it. WOW may have 11.5 million subs but not in the west it doesnt. Most of their subs are in the East. WOW is a quality product whether you like it or not. Calling a game a POS because it is popular is silly and childish. It is popular AND it is quality. Does that mean we all like it? no it does not. But it is what it is. All I am saying is it is critically acclaimed developers love it and the masses eat it up. Developers I bet YOU like
Its not a PoS because its popular Its a PoS because its shit!
I call it like I see it man.
WoW is a simplified version of MMos before it, nothing innovative about WoW at all.
THey stripped what little challenge the game had and made it a casual friendly, souless Item grinder.
What pisses me off is how awesome Blizzards other games were and how much of a De-Evolution WoW is compared to other MMos before it.
Warcraft Rts, Lost Viking, blackthorne, Starcraft, Diablo all awesome Wtf happened with WoW???
I think the fact that half the dev team left before WoWs release isthe reason WoW is such a simple bastard game today.
im sure those quality Devs invisioned a much more enjoyable, deep and challenging game then what Romper room MMO turned into.
Originally posted by CazNeerg There are a couple reasons Warcraft is dominating, and it isn't because the other games are "weak." Unfinished and weak aren't the same thing, WoW wasn't finished at launch either. One reason is simple: it is that WoW is, well, simple. That made it appealing to a large segment that were turned off by EQ and UO. The second reason is that, relative to other simple games, it had a substantial head start. When you are the only (simple) game in town for a substantial amount of time, and are pulling in tons of money from subscriptions, you build a lead that very few companies will have the resources to close before having to release their product and get a revenue stream going. Companies like Funcom and Mythic simply didn't have access to the kind of funding that would allow them to produce a product as polished as WoW, at least not with any substantial amount of content -- that isn't to say that both games didn't make poor design decisions as well, but a certain amount of poor decision making isn't the cause of all the things that were wrong at release. Many were just the inevitable results of a game having to release when it needed more development dollars, rather than when it was ready.
Why is warcraft "simple" in comparison to other games? What makes other games so much harder other than needless timesinks? I hear this statement so often yet no one ever backs it up. If I take someone whos only exposure to mmos was warcraft and dumped them into lets say... everquest 2 or warhammer, are they going to have a hard time playing those games? I think you are confusing intuitive design and ease of access with being simple. Games do not need to have archaic controls and confusing interfaces to be challenging. That is just bad design.
As for your false reason that wow had a head start on other mmos due to funding... Ummm you do realize soe released a brand new mmo with "simple" content 2 weeks prior to warcraft right? Soe has plenty of resources to do exactly what you say is impossible. EQ2 was very much in competition with warcraft and overwhelmingly people chose warcraft. Even to the point that they would rather wait in a login que than to play the other game which had no wait.
As for mythic not having access to the funds you think make or break an mmo, you do know they are owned by one of, if not the largest software company in the world? Mythic had close to 100 million dollars to make warhammer, how is that not enough money? Just like SOE has some pretty deep pockets. Warcraft didn't have endless funds to create the game and no one expected the level of success they had (as witnessed by their lack of servers and the small number of release copies).
As for being a history revisionist, that I am not doing. Warcraft had massive server issues under the games load. It needed plenty of refinement to its mechanics, but that doesn't mean it wasn't polished. The gameplay was well designed. The classes were interesting, quests were fun, the world was alive, etc etc etc. No one is saying the release was perfect or even the best in the industry, but the game itself was crafted very well even if it needed some work after release it was fun. There is the difference that you cannot seem to grasp. Just like city of heroes delivered exactly what it set out to do, but since you found it boring you think that means it was not somehow polished? City of heroes was setting out to do something different than typical mmos. I was bored also, but for people that it targeted the game ran well, looked great, had solid mechanics, etc etc. Even though it doesn't cater to my personal tastes I respect the quality of the product, because other than my personal taste not being catered to, the game was well designed.. Sure LOTRO was a little light on content at release, but the game was polished. It did not have to spend the first 24 months chasing down bugs are redesigning core gameplay issues in some vain attempt to retain subscribers. Instead they put out a flurry of free content updates and an expansion. How many other mmos releases have done that? Guildwarsl, while I don't think it is an mmo, was also polished beyond anything we normally see pushed to market. I can't believe how dismissive you are being and the justifications you are using.
Turbine did exactly what you claim to be impossible without some mega funding company backing it. They released a well polished game despite you claiming it is impossible. If turbine can do it then there is no reason for all of these other companies to fail at such degrees as they are. The simple result is that they are not doing their jobs. Pick whatever reasons you want, but the chance to deliver a quality game is there for just about anyone to do.
My personal biggest letdown would have to have been WAR. But I don't put this letdown as a fault on Mythics part. I just got so caught up in the hype before it launched (goddamn handsome smooth talking Paul Barnett). I also got to play beta and had so much fun doing top teir sieging that when the game came out and I was actually progressing through levels I saw more bugs. Though now I see that the game has listened to it's community and really fixed several bugs so I look forward to returning to WAR soon and with a new perspective.
Originally posted by GTwander:
How are you an MMO? Or any of us for that matter?
I say we strike all users from the site for not being MMOs.
In your opinion WOW is a POS as you put it. WOW may have 11.5 million subs but not in the west it doesnt. Most of their subs are in the East. WOW is a quality product whether you like it or not. Calling a game a POS because it is popular is silly and childish. It is popular AND it is quality. Does that mean we all like it? no it does not. But it is what it is. All I am saying is it is critically acclaimed developers love it and the masses eat it up. Developers I bet YOU like
Its not a PoS because its popular Its a PoS because its shit!
I call it like I see it man.
WoW is a simplified version of MMos before it, nothing innovative about WoW at all.
THey stripped what little challenge the game had and made it a casual friendly, souless Item grinder.
What pisses me off is how awesome Blizzards other games were and how much of a De-Evolution WoW is compared to other MMos before it.
Warcraft Rts, Lost Viking, blackthorne, Starcraft, Diablo all awesome Wtf happened with WoW???
I think the fact that half the dev team left before WoWs release isthe reason WoW is such a simple bastard game today.
im sure those quality Devs invisioned a much more enjoyable, deep and challenging game then what Romper room MMO turned into.
I disagree. Blizzard knew from the start what game they were making and they made it. People left Blizz before release sure but they still helped make the game. I also disagree with "how awesome Blizzards other games were" They have always made games the same way. I am not saying Blizzards games are not fun but one thing they never were is deep. Diablo was looked down on by hardcore RPG lovers as being too simple. As was Warcraft by hardcore RTS lovers. Starcraft as well by harcore Sim lovers. So now WOW gets looked down on by the hardcore MMO lover. Same thing as it has always been with Blizzard. I like Blizzard games in short doses for a casual gaming experience that is streamlined and gets to the point. Alot of people do. I subbed to WOW for a brife time and had fun and needed something deeper so I left. I knew going in what I was getting and what I was not going to get. Hardcore they never were nor have they ever aimed to be. They stay true to their vision whether WE share that vision or not.
Liking or disliking blizzard old games is subjective. I enjoyed them and last I looked the blizzard games in those genres didnt totally destroy those genres.
Actually the majority of those Devs left because they wanted to make WoW play Over battle.net like Diablo. They wanted a total Alliance V horde pvp experience not some Pve newb game.
I already know WoW is for casuals, I already know theres not much to Wow and its designed for the quick gaming then go crowd. MMOs in general weren;t designed like that.
WoW is nothing but a single player game with a chat box and at endgame it becomes a 3d Diablo dungeon crwaler game that should be f2p imo.
They have there own vision, it doesnt mean their vision didnt screw the genre and make the entire damn thing De-evolve!
I think Lotro for me. I mean, its a good game, but I buyed a lifetime subscription, because in the first moment it looked so well, but then I played only 1 month. And 1 month for 300€ is pretty expensive *g*
I think Lotro for me. I mean, its a good game, but I buyed a lifetime subscription, because in the first moment it looked so well, but then I played only 1 month. And 1 month for 300€ is pretty expensive *g*
LOL holy crap!!!
see I never bought into that lifetime member BS.
Well think of it this way atleast you can go back to lotro from time to time and see if its gotten better.
I myself avoid games with hand holding quest content but the mojaority like that stuff and I hear you can have a house in Lotro thats always fun!!!
If I were you I would make a little hobbit and move my ass to the shire and just work on cooking lol. RP ftw!
In your opinion WOW is a POS as you put it. WOW may have 11.5 million subs but not in the west it doesnt. Most of their subs are in the East. WOW is a quality product whether you like it or not. Calling a game a POS because it is popular is silly and childish. It is popular AND it is quality. Does that mean we all like it? no it does not. But it is what it is. All I am saying is it is critically acclaimed developers love it and the masses eat it up. Developers I bet YOU like
Its not a PoS because its popular Its a PoS because its shit!
I call it like I see it man.
WoW is a simplified version of MMos before it, nothing innovative about WoW at all.
THey stripped what little challenge the game had and made it a casual friendly, souless Item grinder.
What pisses me off is how awesome Blizzards other games were and how much of a De-Evolution WoW is compared to other MMos before it.
Warcraft Rts, Lost Viking, blackthorne, Starcraft, Diablo all awesome Wtf happened with WoW???
I think the fact that half the dev team left before WoWs release isthe reason WoW is such a simple bastard game today.
im sure those quality Devs invisioned a much more enjoyable, deep and challenging game then what Romper room MMO turned into.
I disagree. Blizzard knew from the start what game they were making and they made it. People left Blizz before release sure but they still helped make the game. I also disagree with "how awesome Blizzards other games were" They have always made games the same way. I am not saying Blizzards games are not fun but one thing they never were is deep. Diablo was looked down on by hardcore RPG lovers as being too simple. As was Warcraft by hardcore RTS lovers. Starcraft as well by harcore Sim lovers. So now WOW gets looked down on by the hardcore MMO lover. Same thing as it has always been with Blizzard. I like Blizzard games in short doses for a casual gaming experience that is streamlined and gets to the point. Alot of people do. I subbed to WOW for a brife time and had fun and needed something deeper so I left. I knew going in what I was getting and what I was not going to get. Hardcore they never were nor have they ever aimed to be. They stay true to their vision whether WE share that vision or not.
Liking or disliking blizzard old games is subjective. I enjoyed them and last I looked the blizzard games in those genres didnt totally destroy those genres.
Actually the majority of those Devs left because they wanted to make WoW play Over battle.net like Diablo. They wanted a total Alliance V horde pvp experience not some Pve newb game.
I already know WoW is for casuals, I already know theres not much to Wow and its designed for the quick gaming then go crowd. MMOs in general weren;t designed like that.
WoW is nothing but a single player game with a chat box and at endgame it becomes a 3d Diablo dungeon crwaler game that should be f2p imo.
They have there own vision, it doesnt mean their vision didnt screw the genre and make the entire damn thing De-evolve!
WOW didnt do that either. Prove they have. There are a ton of WOW type features in alot of games. There are also alot of things in other mmo's in WOW. Whats the point? WOW is 5 years old. AOC was different enough, took them awhile but the game is a year old and perhaps getting close to the game the players thought it to be at launch. AO will get a facelift which might draw alot more people in to help it. The mighty Bioware's mmo. Also Star Trek online. Jumpgate. Fallout fans will dig Fallen Earth. Guild Wars 2 will be coming out. MO looks interesting. I mean the landscape just does not look that bleak to me. Maybe I am more of an optimist. =/
Its taken a long time for the genre to even try to recover.
Also AoC is a crappy game, im sorry but the Devs lied to us and tbh I dont want to get into how freaking hopeless and terrible AoC is. By the time Bioware releases its game WoW will have been out 7+ years since WoWs servers opened the entire genres focus has been on ease of play and casually friendly mechanics.
How much more proff do you need? just look at the genre. UO, EQ, AC, DAoC, SWG, Eve all much more then WoW will ever be.
The OP asked what was MY biggest MMO history Letdown. It was the moment MMOs shifted into the nebie casually friendly mess and it was all started with WoW.
The genre had great potential and because of WoW we've had to wait more then 5 years just to get games that still suck worse then older MMOs before wow. WoW De-evolved the entire genre.
The OP asked what was MY biggest MMO history Letdown. It was the moment MMOs shifted into the nebie casually friendly mess and it was all started with WoW.
I disagree...
The genre needed to become more causal friendly.
In the long run it going to make it grow.
I've played FFXI 3 months...
I left it with sheer hate for the game...
hate for the lack of quests
hate for the group only progression.
Hate for the harsh Death Penalty.
Hate for the lack of anything to do, but grind.
Less then a year later, WoW is released... and gave almost everything I was looking for.
I do sorta agree with you about the end-game gear grind... tho isn't complete mindless, as you said.
Gear shouldn't the deciding factor in how well you do...
I hoping the end-game in Aion isn't like this...
anyway...
My biggest let down was AoC.... too instanced... not real content pass the single played part of the game.
Originally posted by JGMIII The OP asked what was MY biggest MMO history Letdown. It was the moment MMOs shifted into the nebie casually friendly mess and it was all started with WoW. The genre had great potential and because of WoW we've had to wait more then 5 years just to get games that still suck worse then older MMOs before wow. WoW De-evolved the entire genre.
That is where you are incorrect, because the shift to casual solo friendly gameplay started long before warcraft came out.
DAOC was already making the movement towards solo casual friend gameplay with their quest driven leveling system.
City of heroes did the same thing. Star wars galaxies, EQ2, guild wars, horizons, AC2 were all far more casual and solo friendly than earlier games were. The change was very much underway prior to wows release.
There are a lot of games that were already on the path to doing that and just because you cannot acknowledge this doesn't make warcraft the cause of all this.
Did one game really de-evolved the genre or is it the result of so many terribly rushed incomplete games that failed to deliver a good non-casual experience.
What you are upset about is that one game capitalized on that momentum while other companies have failed to make a compelling product for other play styles. That is not the fault of blizzard. They cannot somehow force other companies to make good games just like they can't force them to make bad games. Try laying some blame where it is deserved.
In your opinion WOW is a POS as you put it. WOW may have 11.5 million subs but not in the west it doesnt. Most of their subs are in the East. WOW is a quality product whether you like it or not. Calling a game a POS because it is popular is silly and childish. It is popular AND it is quality. Does that mean we all like it? no it does not. But it is what it is. All I am saying is it is critically acclaimed developers love it and the masses eat it up. Developers I bet YOU like
Its not a PoS because its popular Its a PoS because its shit!
I call it like I see it man.
WoW is a simplified version of MMos before it, nothing innovative about WoW at all.
THey stripped what little challenge the game had and made it a casual friendly, souless Item grinder.
What pisses me off is how awesome Blizzards other games were and how much of a De-Evolution WoW is compared to other MMos before it.
Warcraft Rts, Lost Viking, blackthorne, Starcraft, Diablo all awesome Wtf happened with WoW???
I think the fact that half the dev team left before WoWs release isthe reason WoW is such a simple bastard game today.
im sure those quality Devs invisioned a much more enjoyable, deep and challenging game then what Romper room MMO turned into.
Nothing innovative about any of Blizzard's games. I don't understand the love that people had for Diablo. Nothing but a clickfest. The only RPG elements were the fact it was fantasy and had levels. Nothing remotely resembling a story, real character development, challenging gameplay, or any of the other elements I expect from a RPG. And funny you call WoW a souless item grinder when the actual game of Diable takes a few hours to finish with the only replay value being looking for loot.
Warcraft RTS was a dumbed down game compared to Dune 2, the true father of RTS games.
Originally posted by JGMIII The OP asked what was MY biggest MMO history Letdown. It was the moment MMOs shifted into the nebie casually friendly mess and it was all started with WoW. The genre had great potential and because of WoW we've had to wait more then 5 years just to get games that still suck worse then older MMOs before wow. WoW De-evolved the entire genre.
That is where you are incorrect, because the shift to casual solo friendly gameplay started long before warcraft came out.
DAOC was already making the movement towards solo casual friend gameplay with their quest driven leveling system.
City of heroes did the same thing. Star wars galaxies, EQ2, guild wars, horizons, AC2 were all far more casual and solo friendly than earlier games were. The change was very much underway prior to wows release.
There are a lot of games that were already on the path to doing that and just because you cannot acknowledge this doesn't make warcraft the cause of all this.
Did one game really de-evolved the genre or is it the result of so many terribly rushed incomplete games that failed to deliver a good non-casual experience.
What you are upset about is that one game capitalized on that momentum while other companies have failed to make a compelling product for other play styles. That is not the fault of blizzard. They cannot somehow force other companies to make good games just like they can't force them to make bad games. Try laying some blame where it is deserved.
Well said. Totally on point.
Jesus you will agree with anything pro WoW or Pro themepark.
Whats well said? theres a big difference between a game letting players solo quests with a big XP disadvantage and letting an entire game be solo friendly to the end.
To the games he brought up.... Swg and EQ2 were changed to meet WoWs success other games that tried to be newb friendly and Ezmode failed. You bring up a Niche Superhero game? Guild wars? come on!
I don't care that people like WoW I care that WoW influenced the entire genre in a negative way.
There is no game to blame other then WoW, it turned the genre to shit. These guys got so exicted about making the game disney and making all this money that they never really sat down and though if they should make a game that would fuck the genre.
Again the OP asked when the biggest let down in MMO history went down and for me it was the day WoW changed the genre.
You wanna blame the games that followed? whatever.
Lets say we're in a sci-fi time travel movie and your mission was to stop MMOs from becoming Easy, casual friendly games, What game would you go and stop from being Made? You wouldn't go to 10 freaking newb games made after wow you would delete WoW off the harddrives of the dudes and blizzard and when returning You would find Lotro more like AC, WAR more like DAoC, EQ2 basically EQ with better graphics, AoC modeled after AO. SWG would have never changed.
Comments
SWG , NGE never saw as a gamer one patch that turned so many against a developers that caused actions to include not trusting them for future releases to affecting purchasing of products this company produced.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
SWG NGE hands down! Biggest cluster fuck of a decision in any gaming genre...IMO.....
(PC Specs)
AMD Phenom II 965 3.4 Quad
8GB G-skill Ripjaw 1600mhz
Nvidia Geforce GTX 470 1280mb
Windows 7 64 bit
Everyone I would like to show you the type of player WoW brought to the genre.
These players lack patience, this guy has no idea that Every MMO released was somewhat unfinished and evolved over the next few months to a year after release.
WoW also release unfinished and with bugs my friend, its only that you're are new to the genre that you think every MMO needs to release in the quality of Wotlk.
If you were an older MMO player you would even talk of unfinished games at release because thats just how it is.
What a bunch of complete CRAP.
Any proof for your social study ?
Of course not.
I have one proof though: you don't even play WotLK these days.
So you have NO idea that Ulduar is simply the best RAID instance Blizzard delivered.
You have NO idea about the mounted combat, the present state of its MUCH played PvP after patch 3.1, the Lake Wintergrasp destructable fortress and towers, the DUAL specs, ...
Still insulting Wow players in general in your posts that is about the only thing you can come up with these days. ("I would come back to Wow if they only had 40 men Raids", yeah another thread of yourself).
Blizzard placed MMORPG's on the evening NEWS.
Tx to Blizzard you can still whine on these forums to play CRAPPED underdevelopped games.
I know the one who sucks here BIG ... and it is NOT the most succesful PC developper....
Zorn you don't even play WoW.
You defend it blindly and while all else fails you toss up a sub numbers link.
WoW is garbage, you know it, I know it. You a troll son!!!!!!
IDIOTS.
And yet your the one that's defending such a lame PoS game that you don't event play.
:I builds me a helicoptaaa....... Lookz at meez endgame!!!!!
Thank god for WoW, they have one game to hold all you people.... stay out of the real MMOS!
builds me a helicoptaaaaa.... kinda sum the whole game up! goo job =D m0lly agrees
Its not a PoS because its popular Its a PoS because its shit!
I call it like I see it man.
WoW is a simplified version of MMos before it, nothing innovative about WoW at all.
THey stripped what little challenge the game had and made it a casual friendly, souless Item grinder.
What pisses me off is how awesome Blizzards other games were and how much of a De-Evolution WoW is compared to other MMos before it.
Warcraft Rts, Lost Viking, blackthorne, Starcraft, Diablo all awesome Wtf happened with WoW???
I think the fact that half the dev team left before WoWs release isthe reason WoW is such a simple bastard game today.
im sure those quality Devs invisioned a much more enjoyable, deep and challenging game then what Romper room MMO turned into.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
Why is warcraft "simple" in comparison to other games? What makes other games so much harder other than needless timesinks? I hear this statement so often yet no one ever backs it up. If I take someone whos only exposure to mmos was warcraft and dumped them into lets say... everquest 2 or warhammer, are they going to have a hard time playing those games? I think you are confusing intuitive design and ease of access with being simple. Games do not need to have archaic controls and confusing interfaces to be challenging. That is just bad design.
As for your false reason that wow had a head start on other mmos due to funding... Ummm you do realize soe released a brand new mmo with "simple" content 2 weeks prior to warcraft right? Soe has plenty of resources to do exactly what you say is impossible. EQ2 was very much in competition with warcraft and overwhelmingly people chose warcraft. Even to the point that they would rather wait in a login que than to play the other game which had no wait.
As for mythic not having access to the funds you think make or break an mmo, you do know they are owned by one of, if not the largest software company in the world? Mythic had close to 100 million dollars to make warhammer, how is that not enough money? Just like SOE has some pretty deep pockets. Warcraft didn't have endless funds to create the game and no one expected the level of success they had (as witnessed by their lack of servers and the small number of release copies).
As for being a history revisionist, that I am not doing. Warcraft had massive server issues under the games load. It needed plenty of refinement to its mechanics, but that doesn't mean it wasn't polished. The gameplay was well designed. The classes were interesting, quests were fun, the world was alive, etc etc etc. No one is saying the release was perfect or even the best in the industry, but the game itself was crafted very well even if it needed some work after release it was fun. There is the difference that you cannot seem to grasp. Just like city of heroes delivered exactly what it set out to do, but since you found it boring you think that means it was not somehow polished? City of heroes was setting out to do something different than typical mmos. I was bored also, but for people that it targeted the game ran well, looked great, had solid mechanics, etc etc. Even though it doesn't cater to my personal tastes I respect the quality of the product, because other than my personal taste not being catered to, the game was well designed.. Sure LOTRO was a little light on content at release, but the game was polished. It did not have to spend the first 24 months chasing down bugs are redesigning core gameplay issues in some vain attempt to retain subscribers. Instead they put out a flurry of free content updates and an expansion. How many other mmos releases have done that? Guildwarsl, while I don't think it is an mmo, was also polished beyond anything we normally see pushed to market. I can't believe how dismissive you are being and the justifications you are using.
Turbine did exactly what you claim to be impossible without some mega funding company backing it. They released a well polished game despite you claiming it is impossible. If turbine can do it then there is no reason for all of these other companies to fail at such degrees as they are. The simple result is that they are not doing their jobs. Pick whatever reasons you want, but the chance to deliver a quality game is there for just about anyone to do.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Your question is a trap, you can call anything a needless time sink.
Shit MMOs in general are a needless time sink.
What makes WoW simple? the fact that you could play solo from start to end?
While the soloing is bad already blizzard also puts you on rails pushing you toward endgame.
People in WoW lack creativity when they play, shit man in WoW when someone RPs they get laughed at!!!
RPing in MMOs was a staple that people respected.
WoW has limited character advancement, so its a simple game.
And while Wows 40 man endmage was fun for a time, it was fun due to raid size and the social aspects of a raid.
Now its just a EZmode mindless grind.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
Clearly it was NGE for SWG. To completely destroy a game for an existing playerbase was the greatest shock in MMO history.
My personal biggest letdown would have to have been WAR. But I don't put this letdown as a fault on Mythics part. I just got so caught up in the hype before it launched (goddamn handsome smooth talking Paul Barnett). I also got to play beta and had so much fun doing top teir sieging that when the game came out and I was actually progressing through levels I saw more bugs. Though now I see that the game has listened to it's community and really fixed several bugs so I look forward to returning to WAR soon and with a new perspective.
Originally posted by GTwander:
How are you an MMO? Or any of us for that matter?
I say we strike all users from the site for not being MMOs.
1. Ultima X: Odyssey
2. Vanguard
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Its not a PoS because its popular Its a PoS because its shit!
I call it like I see it man.
WoW is a simplified version of MMos before it, nothing innovative about WoW at all.
THey stripped what little challenge the game had and made it a casual friendly, souless Item grinder.
What pisses me off is how awesome Blizzards other games were and how much of a De-Evolution WoW is compared to other MMos before it.
Warcraft Rts, Lost Viking, blackthorne, Starcraft, Diablo all awesome Wtf happened with WoW???
I think the fact that half the dev team left before WoWs release isthe reason WoW is such a simple bastard game today.
im sure those quality Devs invisioned a much more enjoyable, deep and challenging game then what Romper room MMO turned into.
I disagree. Blizzard knew from the start what game they were making and they made it. People left Blizz before release sure but they still helped make the game. I also disagree with "how awesome Blizzards other games were" They have always made games the same way. I am not saying Blizzards games are not fun but one thing they never were is deep. Diablo was looked down on by hardcore RPG lovers as being too simple. As was Warcraft by hardcore RTS lovers. Starcraft as well by harcore Sim lovers. So now WOW gets looked down on by the hardcore MMO lover. Same thing as it has always been with Blizzard. I like Blizzard games in short doses for a casual gaming experience that is streamlined and gets to the point. Alot of people do. I subbed to WOW for a brife time and had fun and needed something deeper so I left. I knew going in what I was getting and what I was not going to get. Hardcore they never were nor have they ever aimed to be. They stay true to their vision whether WE share that vision or not.
Liking or disliking blizzard old games is subjective. I enjoyed them and last I looked the blizzard games in those genres didnt totally destroy those genres.
Actually the majority of those Devs left because they wanted to make WoW play Over battle.net like Diablo. They wanted a total Alliance V horde pvp experience not some Pve newb game.
I already know WoW is for casuals, I already know theres not much to Wow and its designed for the quick gaming then go crowd. MMOs in general weren;t designed like that.
WoW is nothing but a single player game with a chat box and at endgame it becomes a 3d Diablo dungeon crwaler game that should be f2p imo.
They have there own vision, it doesnt mean their vision didnt screw the genre and make the entire damn thing De-evolve!
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I think Lotro for me. I mean, its a good game, but I buyed a lifetime subscription, because in the first moment it looked so well, but then I played only 1 month. And 1 month for 300€ is pretty expensive *g*
LOL holy crap!!!
see I never bought into that lifetime member BS.
Well think of it this way atleast you can go back to lotro from time to time and see if its gotten better.
I myself avoid games with hand holding quest content but the mojaority like that stuff and I hear you can have a house in Lotro thats always fun!!!
If I were you I would make a little hobbit and move my ass to the shire and just work on cooking lol. RP ftw!
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
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Its not a PoS because its popular Its a PoS because its shit!
I call it like I see it man.
WoW is a simplified version of MMos before it, nothing innovative about WoW at all.
THey stripped what little challenge the game had and made it a casual friendly, souless Item grinder.
What pisses me off is how awesome Blizzards other games were and how much of a De-Evolution WoW is compared to other MMos before it.
Warcraft Rts, Lost Viking, blackthorne, Starcraft, Diablo all awesome Wtf happened with WoW???
I think the fact that half the dev team left before WoWs release isthe reason WoW is such a simple bastard game today.
im sure those quality Devs invisioned a much more enjoyable, deep and challenging game then what Romper room MMO turned into.
I disagree. Blizzard knew from the start what game they were making and they made it. People left Blizz before release sure but they still helped make the game. I also disagree with "how awesome Blizzards other games were" They have always made games the same way. I am not saying Blizzards games are not fun but one thing they never were is deep. Diablo was looked down on by hardcore RPG lovers as being too simple. As was Warcraft by hardcore RTS lovers. Starcraft as well by harcore Sim lovers. So now WOW gets looked down on by the hardcore MMO lover. Same thing as it has always been with Blizzard. I like Blizzard games in short doses for a casual gaming experience that is streamlined and gets to the point. Alot of people do. I subbed to WOW for a brife time and had fun and needed something deeper so I left. I knew going in what I was getting and what I was not going to get. Hardcore they never were nor have they ever aimed to be. They stay true to their vision whether WE share that vision or not.
Liking or disliking blizzard old games is subjective. I enjoyed them and last I looked the blizzard games in those genres didnt totally destroy those genres.
Actually the majority of those Devs left because they wanted to make WoW play Over battle.net like Diablo. They wanted a total Alliance V horde pvp experience not some Pve newb game.
I already know WoW is for casuals, I already know theres not much to Wow and its designed for the quick gaming then go crowd. MMOs in general weren;t designed like that.
WoW is nothing but a single player game with a chat box and at endgame it becomes a 3d Diablo dungeon crwaler game that should be f2p imo.
They have there own vision, it doesnt mean their vision didnt screw the genre and make the entire damn thing De-evolve!
WOW didnt do that either. Prove they have. There are a ton of WOW type features in alot of games. There are also alot of things in other mmo's in WOW. Whats the point? WOW is 5 years old. AOC was different enough, took them awhile but the game is a year old and perhaps getting close to the game the players thought it to be at launch. AO will get a facelift which might draw alot more people in to help it. The mighty Bioware's mmo. Also Star Trek online. Jumpgate. Fallout fans will dig Fallen Earth. Guild Wars 2 will be coming out. MO looks interesting. I mean the landscape just does not look that bleak to me. Maybe I am more of an optimist. =/
Its taken a long time for the genre to even try to recover.
Also AoC is a crappy game, im sorry but the Devs lied to us and tbh I dont want to get into how freaking hopeless and terrible AoC is. By the time Bioware releases its game WoW will have been out 7+ years since WoWs servers opened the entire genres focus has been on ease of play and casually friendly mechanics.
How much more proff do you need? just look at the genre. UO, EQ, AC, DAoC, SWG, Eve all much more then WoW will ever be.
The OP asked what was MY biggest MMO history Letdown. It was the moment MMOs shifted into the nebie casually friendly mess and it was all started with WoW.
The genre had great potential and because of WoW we've had to wait more then 5 years just to get games that still suck worse then older MMOs before wow. WoW De-evolved the entire genre.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
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This entire forum is Opinion.
We have no facts here. its just a discussion forum lol.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I disagree...
The genre needed to become more causal friendly.
In the long run it going to make it grow.
I've played FFXI 3 months...
I left it with sheer hate for the game...
hate for the lack of quests
hate for the group only progression.
Hate for the harsh Death Penalty.
Hate for the lack of anything to do, but grind.
Less then a year later, WoW is released... and gave almost everything I was looking for.
I do sorta agree with you about the end-game gear grind... tho isn't complete mindless, as you said.
Gear shouldn't the deciding factor in how well you do...
I hoping the end-game in Aion isn't like this...
anyway...
My biggest let down was AoC.... too instanced... not real content pass the single played part of the game.
That is where you are incorrect, because the shift to casual solo friendly gameplay started long before warcraft came out.
DAOC was already making the movement towards solo casual friend gameplay with their quest driven leveling system.
City of heroes did the same thing. Star wars galaxies, EQ2, guild wars, horizons, AC2 were all far more casual and solo friendly than earlier games were. The change was very much underway prior to wows release.
There are a lot of games that were already on the path to doing that and just because you cannot acknowledge this doesn't make warcraft the cause of all this.
Did one game really de-evolved the genre or is it the result of so many terribly rushed incomplete games that failed to deliver a good non-casual experience.
What you are upset about is that one game capitalized on that momentum while other companies have failed to make a compelling product for other play styles. That is not the fault of blizzard. They cannot somehow force other companies to make good games just like they can't force them to make bad games. Try laying some blame where it is deserved.
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Didn't read thread, way too long. But the biggest let down for me was the cancellation of WISH.
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Its not a PoS because its popular Its a PoS because its shit!
I call it like I see it man.
WoW is a simplified version of MMos before it, nothing innovative about WoW at all.
THey stripped what little challenge the game had and made it a casual friendly, souless Item grinder.
What pisses me off is how awesome Blizzards other games were and how much of a De-Evolution WoW is compared to other MMos before it.
Warcraft Rts, Lost Viking, blackthorne, Starcraft, Diablo all awesome Wtf happened with WoW???
I think the fact that half the dev team left before WoWs release isthe reason WoW is such a simple bastard game today.
im sure those quality Devs invisioned a much more enjoyable, deep and challenging game then what Romper room MMO turned into.
Nothing innovative about any of Blizzard's games. I don't understand the love that people had for Diablo. Nothing but a clickfest. The only RPG elements were the fact it was fantasy and had levels. Nothing remotely resembling a story, real character development, challenging gameplay, or any of the other elements I expect from a RPG. And funny you call WoW a souless item grinder when the actual game of Diable takes a few hours to finish with the only replay value being looking for loot.
Warcraft RTS was a dumbed down game compared to Dune 2, the true father of RTS games.
That is where you are incorrect, because the shift to casual solo friendly gameplay started long before warcraft came out.
DAOC was already making the movement towards solo casual friend gameplay with their quest driven leveling system.
City of heroes did the same thing. Star wars galaxies, EQ2, guild wars, horizons, AC2 were all far more casual and solo friendly than earlier games were. The change was very much underway prior to wows release.
There are a lot of games that were already on the path to doing that and just because you cannot acknowledge this doesn't make warcraft the cause of all this.
Did one game really de-evolved the genre or is it the result of so many terribly rushed incomplete games that failed to deliver a good non-casual experience.
What you are upset about is that one game capitalized on that momentum while other companies have failed to make a compelling product for other play styles. That is not the fault of blizzard. They cannot somehow force other companies to make good games just like they can't force them to make bad games. Try laying some blame where it is deserved.
Well said. Totally on point.
Jesus you will agree with anything pro WoW or Pro themepark.
Whats well said? theres a big difference between a game letting players solo quests with a big XP disadvantage and letting an entire game be solo friendly to the end.
To the games he brought up.... Swg and EQ2 were changed to meet WoWs success other games that tried to be newb friendly and Ezmode failed. You bring up a Niche Superhero game? Guild wars? come on!
I don't care that people like WoW I care that WoW influenced the entire genre in a negative way.
There is no game to blame other then WoW, it turned the genre to shit. These guys got so exicted about making the game disney and making all this money that they never really sat down and though if they should make a game that would fuck the genre.
Again the OP asked when the biggest let down in MMO history went down and for me it was the day WoW changed the genre.
You wanna blame the games that followed? whatever.
Lets say we're in a sci-fi time travel movie and your mission was to stop MMOs from becoming Easy, casual friendly games, What game would you go and stop from being Made? You wouldn't go to 10 freaking newb games made after wow you would delete WoW off the harddrives of the dudes and blizzard and when returning You would find Lotro more like AC, WAR more like DAoC, EQ2 basically EQ with better graphics, AoC modeled after AO. SWG would have never changed.
Everything would be better.
This is why I selected WoW as the let down.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom