That is why most mainstream MMOs do not use RMT, except for trivial crap like clothing. This is only being debated on sites like this...most MMO players would be horrified at the thought of allowing players to buy their way up the food chain. Thats why no mainstream MMO does it. RMT does appeal to a lot of people, but most of them live in Asia. US players (and probably Europeans as well) are not going to tolerate it. It occurred to me a lot of people may be thinking otherwise due to an artical written in this Months Maximum PC by Thomas McDonald. Thats the same douchbag dumbass that predsicted the PC game market was dead year or so ago. He seriously has no clue..he is so out of touch now its like he's a parody of himself. I dont get why Maximum PC is still paying him a salary. So the fact that he seems to think RMT will catch on too is just further evidence to me that it wont.
This post makes it sound like the self-description is spot on. First, you contradict yourself in saying that the RMT issue is only being debated on sites like this and then give an example of a publication unrelated to this site in which the issue was discussed. You try to discount that author with pointless name-calling and insults, but you've already undermined your own credibility by posting an argument you knew in advance to be false.
Second, you contradict yourself again by using mainstream in a universal sense but then trying to discount games popular and widely played in areas of the world that are much more populous than the United States or Europe. It may be worth noting that gaming is more popular in the younger generations of those societies than it is in ours, especially from the perspective of determining what is "mainstream."
RMT has caught on, and is popular throughout the world, whether it's a good thing or not, and whether you like it or not. Saying that you don't like it would be honest. Saying that it's not popular because you don't like it is not honest. Spinning in mental circles like a dog chasing its tail to try to prove that it's not is just silly and won't advance the discussion a bit.
This topic is even worse than the last one. Assuming you have an RMT system that doesn't imbalance payers and non payers, this really doesn't exist. I don't even think it does exist.
Honestly, I tend to agree with the the statement but not only kids it's all players in general. One thing that these RMT games depend on is the infectious competition between players.
For example, Runes of magic has a daily quest reset ticket. I know people who ABUSED it to level faster than anyone else. These people leveled fast, were getting into higher level dungeons which in turn were getting better geared. They were revered in our guild and on the server, quickly the egos was blown out of proportion. This led to rude comments to the people who didn't abuse that method and discontent within the guild. Which will always happen in a competetive environment.
Considering the Nick Yee has surveyed that the average mmo gamer age to be 33, that most likely means a stable job and ultimately more access to cash. Versus the 17 yr old with the allowance, no job and no credit card this is no competition if the older of the two decides to (ab)use the cash shop.
We have taken away all that tiresome grinding and gone straight to your pocket! You don’t play, you pay!
Lord it over the noobs with your credit card mastery; shock with your extortionately priced uber weapon, awe with your gloriously glowing expensive armour, amaze with your rapid (paid for) levelling.
Media:
Video 1: using the cash shop.
Video 2: excuses to use on your parents for the bill.
Video 3: excuses to use on your wife for the bill.
This quote is dedicated to to FOUR horsmen of the Apocalyps, Vengesunsoar, bmdevine, madux and the man from the States Orthedos. Give your thanx to Scot he has come up with your dream game...
Me: To continue the basketball analogy: If there were two baskets in that basketball game, one low and one high, and only certain players could use the low one but the points would count either way...would you still want to play in that basketball game? The majority of the MMO playerbase will never accept RMT for that reason. Unless it is for trivial stuff like costume parts or whatever. Would I continue to play the same game. It depends on whether I'm having fun or not. Is it safe to say that in my basketball game analogy above, the people forced to use the higher baskets would probably not have as much fun? No it is not safe to assume that, because you have to determine why they are playing? It is for competition, than it would be unfair, is it for a laugh, than it's fine Is that maybe why all basketball games are now played with uniform basket hights for the players? The heights are uniform because it is assumed that the people playing are playing for competition, however many have heights tha are adjustable and they are in fact adjusted to an appropriate height depending on the reason for playing.
Their actually are races where things like this occur. The Sun Run in Vancouver B.C. is a big one, a 10 k race with more than 40,000 people attending come to mind. Most people run, some walk, others wheelchair (whether they need them or not) others rollerblade or bike. It's all done for charity and for fun. ...and not competition, which is the point. MMOs are a competitive environment. Thats the whole draw of RMT in the first place...a way to compete buy buying your way to the goal rather than earning it. In the vast majority of Marathons, no, you are not allowed to "compete" by cheating with a motorcycle. Even if you pay extra. And this is where your argument falls apart. It comes down to what is your reason for playing. I and many others don't play for competition so RMT has no effect on me or these players at all. The other players can buy god mode gear, I couldn't care less. Futher more as other people have stated I have no way of knowing how they got they're god mode gear anyway and am not going to waste a single neuron worrying about it. MMO's are not a competitive environment unless you choose them to be that way. They are merely an environment that people can play in. So again it comes down to, "Why are you doing it?" Are you playing for entertainment? A level playing field is part of what makes it entertaining. The same is true for Marathons and Basketball games. If you are in a competitive sport where one side has an advantage they didnt earn (like being able to use a lower basket), then the game becomes a lot less enjoyable. A level playing field is what makes it entertaining for you. Those other activites are often competitive but many many other times are just played for a laugh. When I am in competition I want a level playing field, as much as possible anyway, when I'm just enjoying things, I could care less. So once again what is your reason for playing? I agree this is a psychological issue. People need to: Decide why are they are playing these games. They already have. That is why most mainstream MMOs do not use RMT, except for trivial crap like clothing. This is only being debated on sites like this...most MMO players would be horrified at the thought of allowing players to buy their way up the food chain. Thats why no mainstream MMO does it. I dont' think so at all. While most mainstream games do not allow it, the fact is it is in all games. So the majority, since they are still playing these games, are saying they don't mind it And more and more games are putting in more and more items. City of heroes now not only gives costume packs, but some powers as well. I haven't bought any yet but I received some buffs from some who have and they are interesting. Not enough to make me want to buy yet, but definately interesting. EQ1 and 2 have it, WoW is starting to. It is becoming more and more commonplace and people are still playing. RMT does appeal to a lot of people, but most of them live in Asia. US players (and probably Europeans as well) are not going to tolerate it. This is a garbage argument. I don't know where most of the farmers live but I'm pretty sure there are a number of them in the U.S. and E.U. and probably significantly more that buy it. After all there are a ton of websites in English, so they are catering to these markets. So a good chunk of U.S. and E.U. players are tolerating it. It occurred to me a lot of people might be thinking otherwise due to an article written in this months Maximum PC by Thomas McDonald. Thats the same douchbag dumbass that predicted the PC game market was dead a year or so ago. He seriously has no clue..he is so out of touch now its like he's a parody of himself. I dont get why Maximum PC is still paying him a salary. So the fact that he seems to think RMT will catch on too is just further evidence to me that it wont. And yet the mainstream MMO's are starting to put it in in some form or another, might want to rethink that statement.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
<sound of classical music big epic opener> Features:
We have taken away all that tiresome grinding and gone straight to your pocket! You don’t play, you pay!
Lord it over the noobs with your credit card mastery; shock with your extortionately priced uber weapon, awe with your gloriously glowing expensive armour, amaze with your rapid (paid for) levelling. Media:
Video 1: using the cash shop.
Video 2: excuses to use on your parents for the bill.
Video 3: excuses to use on your wife for the bill.
This quote is dedicated to to FOUR horsmen of the Apocalyps, Vengesunsoar, bmdevine, madux and the man from the States Orthedos. Give your thanx to Scot he has come up with your dream game...
The idea that RMT creates a extortionately priced market is garbage. The game design creates this. Unlimited gold being created and very little leaving means that with or without RMT items become increasingly more expensive.
The exact same argument can be said for time. But once again I could care less, I play for enjoyment, I'll let you play your way. My dreamgame is one where everyone would stop bitching about everything and everyone, where everyone would stop worrying about what other people are doing and focus on playing.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
<sound of classical music big epic opener> Features:
We have taken away all that tiresome grinding and gone straight to your pocket! You don’t play, you pay!
Lord it over the noobs with your credit card mastery; shock with your extortionately priced uber weapon, awe with your gloriously glowing expensive armour, amaze with your rapid (paid for) levelling. Media:
Video 1: using the cash shop.
Video 2: excuses to use on your parents for the bill.
Video 3: excuses to use on your wife for the bill.
This quote is dedicated to to FOUR horsmen of the Apocalyps, Vengesunsoar, bmdevine, madux and the man from the States Orthedos. Give your thanx to Scot he has come up with your dream game...
The idea that RMT creates a extortionately priced market is garbage. The game design creates this. Unlimited gold being created and very little leaving means that with or without RMT items become increasingly more expensive.
The exact same argument can be said for time. But once again I could care less, I play for enjoyment, I'll let you play your way. My dreamgame is one where everyone would stop bitching about everything and everyone, where everyone would stop worrying about what other people are doing and focus on playing.
Venge Sunsoar
edit: in the end it always comes down to choices, time and money. Why am I playing? Do I enjoy it or not? I have to pay for the items/content - either a whopping 50 bucks on expansion if one comes or 2 bucks on whatever it is. I dont' see any difference.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
<sound of classical music big epic opener> Features:
We have taken away all that tiresome grinding and gone straight to your pocket! You don’t play, you pay!
Lord it over the noobs with your credit card mastery; shock with your extortionately priced uber weapon, awe with your gloriously glowing expensive armour, amaze with your rapid (paid for) levelling. Media:
Video 1: using the cash shop.
Video 2: excuses to use on your parents for the bill.
Video 3: excuses to use on your wife for the bill.
This quote is dedicated to to FOUR horsmen of the Apocalyps, Vengesunsoar, bmdevine, madux and the man from the States Orthedos. Give your thanx to Scot he has come up with your dream game...
The idea that RMT creates a extortionately priced market is garbage. The game design creates this. Unlimited gold being created and very little leaving means that with or without RMT items become increasingly more expensive.
The exact same argument can be said for time. But once again I could care less, I play for enjoyment, I'll let you play your way. My dreamgame is one where everyone would stop bitching about everything and everyone, where everyone would stop worrying about what other people are doing and focus on playing.
Venge Sunsoar
I dont know how mush experience you have with chines/korean RMT games but trust me when I say that, If you want to stay competetive and at the top off the food chain you are gona have to put in some cash.
I play EvE now for free as I sell my ISK legaly in that game to people who pay for GMT cards. These people spend alot mor then the usal 14,95 a month to play. But im happy as it makes me able to play for free...
Smart people will exploit weaker people. I played Entropida universe for a while also and I made a few bucks before I quit it because it was starting to become a full time jobb. I still have friends who make thier living playing that game.
I have a college degree and I have worked in both marketing/sails and economics, and that is one of the reasons I like EvE.
Im not crusading on these forums aginst RMT for my own sake I just know that there are more sharks in the water like me and they are gona bleed your wallets dry if RMT becomes the norm in these games. They will Exploit and take advantage of it and in the end its Avrage JOE who picks up the tab.
But in the end if you want to get used and abused, and some of you are rely asking for it, I cant stop you so good luck and hope you dont run into someone like me when you are playing because the chans is he will take you on a run for you money...
Ps ; im not from the US im from a socialist country in Europe, this might be the reason that I think We as players have a moral obligation to speak up against things that might be harmfull to our fellow players... And we have had a few court cases here against RMT games expoiting children for example.
And this is where your argument falls apart. It comes down to what is your reason for playing. I and many others don't play for competition so RMT has no effect on me or these players at all. The other players can buy god mode gear, I couldn't care less. Futher more as other people have stated I have no way of knowing how they got they're god mode gear anyway and am not going to waste a single neuron worrying about it. MMO's are not a competitive environment unless you choose them to be that way. They are merely an environment that people can play in.
Come back to me with that argument after I ganked your for the 20thed time and harrazed you while you tried and play the game.. Most ( I would say all but im not 100% sure) existing RMT games today have World PVP implemented.
I will abuse and destroy your gameplay and force you to get the same gear if you want to keep playing. Thats how RMT games work once you open Pandoras BOX there is no going back. YOU have 3 choises
1, buff up and stay competetive, pay IRL money
2, quit the game
3, get ganked with no chans of winning
just make your choise.
the funny thing is that I will also no life play the game 24/7, getting the few drops that the devs give out, and puting them up on market for Ingame money or real money. If we are talking Entropida universe where the ingame money = Real Cash. So not only is the game making a huge dent in your wallet each month, to even keep you playing, you are alos paying me wages . Iv done this in a few games so I know it works...
Its in me and my friends best interest that you go to the cash shop and also buy the stuff we put on the market so you can stay competetive, so we will gank, spank and force you to do it so we can make more IRL money ourselfs.
<sound of classical music big epic opener> Features:
We have taken away all that tiresome grinding and gone straight to your pocket! You don’t play, you pay!
Lord it over the noobs with your credit card mastery; shock with your extortionately priced uber weapon, awe with your gloriously glowing expensive armour, amaze with your rapid (paid for) levelling. Media:
Video 1: using the cash shop.
Video 2: excuses to use on your parents for the bill.
Video 3: excuses to use on your wife for the bill.
This quote is dedicated to to FOUR horsmen of the Apocalyps, Vengesunsoar, bmdevine, madux and the man from the States Orthedos. Give your thanx to Scot he has come up with your dream game...
This post makes it sound like the self-description is spot on. First, you contradict yourself in saying that the RMT issue is only being debated on sites like this and then give an example of a publication unrelated to this site in which the issue was discussed.
Because they are the same thing...the publication is a canned sub-community of the MMO community, just like this site is. There is no contradiction. The vast majority of MMO players are not reading his column, or visiting this site.
You try to discount that author with pointless name-calling and insults
They arent pointless, they are well earned. He really is a douchbag dumbass.
but you've already undermined your own credibility by posting an argument you knew in advance to be false.
Apparently not enough that you feel comfortable not spending several paragraphs responding to it.
Second, you contradict yourself again by using mainstream in a universal sense but then trying to discount games popular and widely played in areas of the world that are much more populous than the United States or Europe.
Which is why I explicitly made a distinction between the two markets. Please pay attention.
It may be worth noting that gaming is more popular in the younger generations of those societies than it is in ours, especially from the perspective of determining what is "mainstream."
By mainstream I was obviously referring to the US market, which is why I made the distinction in the first place.
RMT has caught on, and is popular throughout the world
...as long as "throughout the world" doesnt include the US or Europe...
Saying that it's not popular because you don't like it is not honest.
Saying it is popular "throughout the world" despite the fact that no major MMOs in the US or Europe embrace it would be dishonest by your own criteria, no?
Saying that it's not popular because you don't like it is not honest. Saying it is popular "throughout the world" despite the fact that no major MMOs in the US or Europe embrace it would be dishonest by your own criteria, no?
I guess SOE has no major MMOs in the US, and no one in the US plays any F2P games like Runes of Magic. Sorry, BD, but the fact that you don't happen to like something does not and will not change reality.
Me: Is it safe to say that in my basketball game analogy above, the people forced to use the higher baskets would probably not have as much fun?
No it is not safe to assume that
Well, I disagree. I think most basketball players (professional or not) would be opposed to allowing some players an easier way to make baskets than others.
The heights are uniform because it is assumed that the people playing are playing for competition
Assumed by who? I dont know anyone who plays the game, for "competition" or not, that favors allowing some players an easier way to score than others.
however many have heights tha are adjustable
Yep...but have you noticed how they are always the same height on both sides, no matter how they are adjusted? No matter how easy or hard it is to make a basket, it is the same for both sides. If only one side was allowed to adjust their basket, the game would no longer be fun.
I and many others don't play for competition so RMT has no effect on me or these players at all.
Well, then you are part of a minority, if the current market is any indication.
MMO's are not a competitive environment unless you choose them to be that way.
Most people choose to play that way IMO. Even in PvE-centric MMOs. There are more forms of competition than just combat.
A level playing field is what makes it entertaining for you.
And for most people who play MMOs in the US and Europe, if the current market is any indication.
I dont' think so at all. While most mainstream games do not allow it, the fact is it is in all games.
Give me an example of RMT in a mainstream US/European MMO that uses RMT for anything other than trivial items.
City of heroes now not only gives costume packs, but some powers as well.
And all have little or no effect on the game. So the playing field remains level. No one on my side is complaining about this or considers this a real example of RMT.
RMT to me would be if CoH only allowed you to use the epic archtypes if you pay more money. Or if they restricted access to the energy blaster powerset to people who pay more money. THAT would be RMT.
I don't know where most of the farmers live but I'm pretty sure there are a number of them in the U.S. and E.U. and probably significantly more that buy it. After all there are a ton of websites in English, so they are catering to these markets.
That doesnt necessarily mean a majority (or even sizable minority) of the MMO player base uses them. It just means enough people use them to make the english sites worthwhile.
And yet the mainstream MMO's are starting to put it in in some form or another
Are the trivial examples you gave above the only examples of "mainstream" RMT you can find?
Sounds to me like the OP is trying to increase the base of the pyramid. The marketing of the game as something for the "whole family" seems a bit disingenuous, since it has nothing to offer young children (aside from maybe a life of poverty after the online casino sucks out all the parents' money.) I would recommend Free Realms for those who are reading the post because of the title, but have no delusion that the OP will read this and take note, because it seems to me that the title is quite deceptive.
I applaud your good judgment. Now why dont you take the full step into the light and leave the Dark side for good. The Crusade against RMT needs you!
And this is where your argument falls apart. It comes down to what is your reason for playing. I and many others don't play for competition so RMT has no effect on me or these players at all. The other players can buy god mode gear, I couldn't care less. Futher more as other people have stated I have no way of knowing how they got they're god mode gear anyway and am not going to waste a single neuron worrying about it. MMO's are not a competitive environment unless you choose them to be that way. They are merely an environment that people can play in.
Come back to me with that argument after I ganked your for the 20thed time and harrazed you while you tried and play the game.. Most ( I would say all but im not 100% sure) existing RMT games today have World PVP implemented.
I will abuse and destroy your gameplay and force you to get the same gear if you want to keep playing. Thats how RMT games work once you open Pandoras BOX there is no going back. YOU have 3 choises
1, buff up and stay competetive, pay IRL money
2, quit the game
3, get ganked with no chans of winning
just make your choise.
the funny thing is that I will also no life play the game 24/7, getting the few drops that the devs give out, and puting them up on market for Ingame money or real money. If we are talking Entropida universe where the ingame money = Real Cash. So not only is the game making a huge dent in your wallet each month, to even keep you playing, you are alos paying me wages . Iv done this in a few games so I know it works...
Its in me and my friends best interest that you go to the cash shop and also buy the stuff we put on the market so you can stay competetive, so we will gank, spank and force you to do it so we can make more IRL money ourselfs.
Once again you are only looking at one side. Those options would only apply if 1. I was playing for competition which I'm not, 2. I'm playing in an FFA PvP which I usually don't. These points right there make your argument worthless.
Most of the games I play are mostly PvE with some PvP which means I always have a 4th choice... just play the pve part which is usually what I do because again... "I chose not to play MMO games to be competitive." It does come down to choice, people need to decide what they play for. And it is for far more than the limited options you have insinuated.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
-Games be Fun or for the Money- As human beings, we buy ourselves through normal life, why can't that be replicated? Taxes are kind of like pay-to-play, but really, the living part comes from RMT's at Safeway for momentary benefits that we need to keep coming back for. <-- weak argument, but it was a weak subject to begin with.
Actually in game without RMT replicates real life more. You don't buy your way through life with money. You earn money in some way through playing the game of life. It is our real life economy. You don't go out of the real world and with an alien credit card and purchase earth world items or earth money with it.That is what you are wanting to do in these gaming worlds.
The game is already designed with a currency and ways to play to get it. That is the in game economy. Also all you folks saying RMT is good because it helps allievate the "grind" for folks who do not have enough time to play ... why pay a developer for a game that isn't designed with you in mind? That is illogical. Instead of swiping the credit card to skip parts of some game, play one that has you in mind. If you continue to pay to skip the game in the current games, the developers will feel these current games are fine. You actually encourage them to make more time sinks for you people without much time by swiping your credit card to skip content.
They then know that these time sinks games are popular and the people that do not have enough time to play their game model are gullable enough to pull out the credit card to skip parts of the game.
I play EvE now for free as I sell my ISK legaly in that game to people who pay for GMT cards. These people spend alot mor then the usal 14,95 a month to play. But im happy as it makes me able to play for free...
I dont consider EVE RMT though, because it isnt something the developers are selling, and does not affect the playing field sufficiently IMO...you may be able to afford a Battleship, but it is useless without the skills to fly it, and you cannot buy those skills. For this reason, it does not significantly imbalance the game. Most people who play the game can already afford a Battleship by the time they have the skills to fly one.
Also, ships in Eve are subject to permanent loss, which is not the case in most MMOs. That shiny new Nightmare you just spent 1 million+ ISK on? If you lose it, its gone. So you better make sure you have the skills not only to fly it, but fly it well. Insurance wont be near enough to cover it. So you better make sure you know what you're doing.
So no n00b is gonna log in fresh off a trial account and buy an expensive ship. At best, they will be able to buy a really good version of whatever they have to fly (equipped with whatever they have the skills to use). So it doesnt unbalance the game, and therefore I would not consider it an example of RMT in the context of this discussion.
Me: Is it safe to say that in my basketball game analogy above, the people forced to use the higher baskets would probably not have as much fun? No it is not safe to assume that Well, I disagree. I think most basketball players (professional or not) would be opposed to allowing some players an easier way to make baskets than others. And yet it happens in thousands of courts every day in the world The heights are uniform because it is assumed that the people playing are playing for competition Assumed by who? I dont know anyone who plays the game, for "competition" or not, that favors allowing some players an easier way to score than others. Assumed by the people who made them, a school/city planner/or instituation usually. And again when playing with children or special populations it is made easier for that group in thousands of locations every day. So again decide what you are playign for.
however many have heights tha are adjustable Yep...but have you noticed how they are always the same height on both sides, no matter how they are adjusted? No matter how easy or hard it is to make a basket, it is the same for both sides. If only one side was allowed to adjust their basket, the game would no longer be fun. No they are not always the same height, again see above. When adults playing with children, or healthy playign with special populations (just to name a few obvious examples) the heights are often different on each side. And still the game is fun, both sides are laughign and having a good time. They don't care about the competition, they care about the comraderie and laughin. I and many others don't play for competition so RMT has no effect on me or these players at all. Well, then you are part of a minority, if the current market is any indication. The market is overwhelmingly catered to casuals. And most casuals are not playing at the same level of competition, or even wanting to that some others on this thread indicated. Wow 11.5 million players, and only a small percentage engage in regular raiding and even fewer in the arena tournaments. I think most are in the non-super competitve type and you are in the minority
MMO's are not a competitive environment unless you choose them to be that way. Most people choose to play that way IMO. Even in PvE-centric MMOs. There are more forms of competition than just combat. There are many forms of competition but most play games for entertainment, sometimes that is competitive sometimes it is not. If it is too competittive the entertainment value drops and people leave. A level playing field is what makes it entertaining for you. And for most people who play MMOs in the US and Europe, if the current market is any indication. Again see above I dont' think so at all. While most mainstream games do not allow it, the fact is it is in all games. Give me an example of RMT in a mainstream US/European MMO that uses RMT for anything other than trivial items. City of Heroes you can buy special powers now. Everquest 2 you can buy xp potions - and these are legal. There is illegal RMT in all games. City of heroes now not only gives costume packs, but some powers as well. And all have little or no effect on the game. So the playing field remains level. No one on my side is complaining about this or considers this a real example of RMT. RMT to me would be if CoH only allowed you to use the epic archtypes if you pay more money. Or if they restricted access to the energy blaster powerset to people who pay more money. THAT would be RMT. Those powers let you heal quicker, and have stamina recover faster. Not a lot but every bit helps, especially in competition. It is still RMT and it is still a popular MMO in U.S. and E.U. Whether you consider it relevant or not is itself irrelevant it met all the criteria you stated. I don't know where most of the farmers live but I'm pretty sure there are a number of them in the U.S. and E.U. and probably significantly more that buy it. After all there are a ton of websites in English, so they are catering to these markets. That doesnt necessarily mean a majority (or even sizable minority) of the MMO player base uses them. It just means enough people use them to make the english sites worthwhile.
And yet the mainstream MMO's are starting to put it in in some form or another Are the trivial examples you gave above the only examples of "mainstream" RMT you can find? Trivial or not they are there, the fact that they weren't there before indicates that the RMT field is expanding
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
And this is where your argument falls apart. It comes down to what is your reason for playing. I and many others don't play for competition so RMT has no effect on me or these players at all. The other players can buy god mode gear, I couldn't care less. Futher more as other people have stated I have no way of knowing how they got they're god mode gear anyway and am not going to waste a single neuron worrying about it. MMO's are not a competitive environment unless you choose them to be that way. They are merely an environment that people can play in.
Come back to me with that argument after I ganked your for the 20thed time and harrazed you while you tried and play the game.. Most ( I would say all but im not 100% sure) existing RMT games today have World PVP implemented.
I will abuse and destroy your gameplay and force you to get the same gear if you want to keep playing. Thats how RMT games work once you open Pandoras BOX there is no going back. YOU have 3 choises
1, buff up and stay competetive, pay IRL money
2, quit the game
3, get ganked with no chans of winning
just make your choise.
the funny thing is that I will also no life play the game 24/7, getting the few drops that the devs give out, and puting them up on market for Ingame money or real money. If we are talking Entropida universe where the ingame money = Real Cash. So not only is the game making a huge dent in your wallet each month, to even keep you playing, you are alos paying me wages . Iv done this in a few games so I know it works...
Its in me and my friends best interest that you go to the cash shop and also buy the stuff we put on the market so you can stay competetive, so we will gank, spank and force you to do it so we can make more IRL money ourselfs.
Once again you are only looking at one side. Those options would only apply if 1. I was playing for competition which I'm not, 2. I'm playing in an FFA PvP which I usually don't. These points right there make your argument worthless.
Most of the games I play are mostly PvE with some PvP which means I always have a 4th choice... just play the pve part which is usually what I do because again... "I chose not to play MMO games to be competitive." It does come down to choice, people need to decide what they play for. And it is for far more than the limited options you have insinuated.
Venge Sunsoar
But Vemgesunsoar this thread is not called "what do Vengesunsoar do" I personaly am not discussing if RMT is good for YOU personly or not. I have put forth arguments what the general public might run into if these games become the standard of MMO gaming. Not untill the last post did I go into What I Have done in the Past. As this wasent relevent, but I thought you migth get the point if I told you that RMT games, the true once, Let me EXPLOIT people, and earn IRL money.
I did this thru my college years to boost my founds, and I think you would be surprised if I told you how mush money I made a month. Now im older and iv started to think that maybe the selfish way is not the way to improve life.
So I have in serveral post pointed out the dangers in RMT gaming. Now those things might not concern you. But somone somewhere are gona get the End of the stick. You do not care about this, as long as its not YOU, but I DO. that is the diffrence betwen you and me. You are looking out for number one and Im taking care of the Herd.
Now you can try and shoot down post all Night long, but after the smoke settles people are still gona get Exploited. abused and lose money in RMT games. And no mather what you say you will not change this fact because its true.
I play EvE now for free as I sell my ISK legaly in that game to people who pay for GMT cards. These people spend alot mor then the usal 14,95 a month to play. But im happy as it makes me able to play for free... I dont consider EVE RMT though, because it isnt something the developers are selling, and does not affect the playing field sufficiently IMO...you may be able to afford a Battleship, but it is useless without the skills to fly it, and you cannot buy those skills. For this reason, it does not significantly imbalance the game. Most people who play the game can already afford a Battleship by the time they have the skills to fly one. Also, ships in Eve are subject to permanent loss, which is not the case in most MMOs. That shiny new Nightmare you just spent 1 million+ ISK on? If you lose it, its gone. So you better make sure youhave the skills not only to fly it, but fly it well. Insurance wont be near enough to cover it. So you better make sure you know what you're doing. So no n00b is gonna log in fresh off a trial account and buy an expensive ship. At best, they will be able to buy a really good version of whatever they have to fly (equipped with whatever they have the skills to use). So it doesnt unbalance the game, and therefore I would not consider it an example of RMT in the context of this discussion.
Only reason I pointed it out is to say people are willing to spend more money then 14,95 a month to play a video game. Some people might even lay down thousand of dollars on them. My hole argument against the RMT games are socialistic one, I see the risk of people loosing to mush money in a virtual world. In the end this can become a social problem with people both going broke and getting addicted to these kinds of games. RMT is a dangerus game design and we should do our best to not suport it.
And this is where your argument falls apart. It comes down to what is your reason for playing. I and many others don't play for competition so RMT has no effect on me or these players at all. The other players can buy god mode gear, I couldn't care less. Futher more as other people have stated I have no way of knowing how they got they're god mode gear anyway and am not going to waste a single neuron worrying about it. MMO's are not a competitive environment unless you choose them to be that way. They are merely an environment that people can play in.
Come back to me with that argument after I ganked your for the 20thed time and harrazed you while you tried and play the game.. Most ( I would say all but im not 100% sure) existing RMT games today have World PVP implemented.
I will abuse and destroy your gameplay and force you to get the same gear if you want to keep playing. Thats how RMT games work once you open Pandoras BOX there is no going back. YOU have 3 choises
1, buff up and stay competetive, pay IRL money
2, quit the game
3, get ganked with no chans of winning
just make your choise.
the funny thing is that I will also no life play the game 24/7, getting the few drops that the devs give out, and puting them up on market for Ingame money or real money. If we are talking Entropida universe where the ingame money = Real Cash. So not only is the game making a huge dent in your wallet each month, to even keep you playing, you are alos paying me wages . Iv done this in a few games so I know it works...
Its in me and my friends best interest that you go to the cash shop and also buy the stuff we put on the market so you can stay competetive, so we will gank, spank and force you to do it so we can make more IRL money ourselfs.
Once again you are only looking at one side. Those options would only apply if 1. I was playing for competition which I'm not, 2. I'm playing in an FFA PvP which I usually don't. These points right there make your argument worthless.
Most of the games I play are mostly PvE with some PvP which means I always have a 4th choice... just play the pve part which is usually what I do because again... "I chose not to play MMO games to be competitive." It does come down to choice, people need to decide what they play for. And it is for far more than the limited options you have insinuated.
Venge Sunsoar
But Vemgesunsoar this thread is not called "what do Vengesunsoar do" I personaly am not discussing if RMT is good for YOU personly or not. I have put forth arguments what the general public might run into if these games become the standard of MMO gaming. Not untill the last post did I go into What I Have done in the Past. As this wasent relevent, but I thought you migth get the point if I told you that RMT games, the true once, Let me EXPLOIT people, and earn IRL money.
I did this thru my college years to boost my founds, and I think you would be surprised if I told you how mush money I made a month. Now im older and iv started to think that maybe the selfish way is not the way to improve life.
So I have in serveral post pointed out the dangers in RMT gaming. Now those things might not concern you. But somone somewhere are gona get the End of the stick. You do not care about this, as long as its not YOU, but I DO. that is the diffrence betwen you and me. You are looking out for number one and Im taking care of the Herd.
Now you can try and shoot down post all Night long, but after the smoke settles people are still gona get Exploited. abused and lose money in RMT games. And no mather what you say you will not change this fact because its true.
And I have nullified your argument by posting what another option that someone in the general public could do.
I wouldn't be surprised that you made a lot of money. I know there is a lot of people that do play these games for competitiion. I'm saying more are playing them casually as games, for simple entertainment and so your three options are meaningless and do not apply to them.
Yes people will still get exploited. I've never denied that. People are being exploited in games that allow RMT and games that do not allow RMT. There are extreme examples of people doing stupid things in both situations. That is not the norm again in both types of games. And yes measures should be taken to stop people from being exploited. The dangers of RMT gaming are real, just like the dangers of internet addiction and unhealthy obsessive gaming behaviours are real. Once again that is not the norm. They are the exception. It is not a reason to stop it, it is a reason to monitor and possibly regulate it.
As will all things. When all the smoke has settles people need to take personal responsibility for their actions.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Me: Well, I disagree. I think most basketball players (professional or not) would be opposed to allowing some players an easier way to make baskets than others.
And yet it happens in thousands of courts every day in the world
Like where? Sorry, I call bullshit. I've never seen that happen even once.
If it happens at all, it is obviously a tiny minority. Just like the RMT supporters.
No they are not always the same height, again see above. When adults playing with children, or healthy playign with special populations (just to name a few obvious examples) the heights are often different on each side.
And yet, all the basketball games dont seem to fit that model. Can we then assume a majority of basketball players prefer a level playing field?
Me: Well, then you are part of a minority, if the current market is any indication.
The market is overwhelmingly catered to casuals. And most casuals are not playing at the same level of competition
Most casuals seem to prefer a level playing field as well, if the current market is any indication.
There are many forms of competition but most play games for entertainment
"Competition" and "entertainment" are hardly mutually exclusive terms. The fact that competition is entertaining is precisely why, IMO, RMT is confined to the fringes of the MMO world in the west. And will probably remain there.
City of Heroes you can buy special powers now.
Give me an example of a special power available via RMT that significantly impacts balance in the game.
I play CoH btw.
Those powers let you heal quicker, and have stamina recover faster.
By what, .0005%? Gimme a break.
That falls into the "trivial" RMT category I described earlier. It has no significant impact on balance.
Whether you consider it relevant or not is itself irrelevant it met all the criteria you stated.
I disagree. If that is really as far as RMT will ever go, then I would have no problem with RMT. But that is not what RMT opponents are talking about when they criticize RMT.
Trivial or not they are there, the fact that they weren't there before indicates that the RMT field is expanding
Only reason I pointed it out is to say people are willing to spend more money then 14,95 a month to play a video game.
Oh, I agree. As I already stated earlier, I never had a problem with people being allowed to spend money on MMOs beyond the base price...I only have a problem when it significantly impacts game balance. And I think that is true of most people criticizing RMT right now.
I see the risk of people loosing to mush money in a virtual world. In the end this can become a social problem with people both going broke and getting addicted to these kinds of games.
Yeah, but they should still have the freedom to do it IMO. People do lots of things that are not healthy or in their best interest. But it isnt up to you or me to dictate to them what they can do with their free time.
If the Asian world wants to spend every cent they have on grindy RMT games, I am ok with them doing that...so long as I dont have to play in the same game with them.
RMT is a dangerus game design and we should do our best to not suport it.
That is like saying we should do our best not to support people setting themselves on fire. While some people may do it anyway, the fact that it is a very unpleasant experience alone is enough of an incentive for most people not to do it. RMT will not catch on for the same reason.
And this is where your argument falls apart. It comes down to what is your reason for playing. I and many others don't play for competition so RMT has no effect on me or these players at all. The other players can buy god mode gear, I couldn't care less. Futher more as other people have stated I have no way of knowing how they got they're god mode gear anyway and am not going to waste a single neuron worrying about it. MMO's are not a competitive environment unless you choose them to be that way. They are merely an environment that people can play in.
Come back to me with that argument after I ganked your for the 20thed time and harrazed you while you tried and play the game.. Most ( I would say all but im not 100% sure) existing RMT games today have World PVP implemented.
I will abuse and destroy your gameplay and force you to get the same gear if you want to keep playing. Thats how RMT games work once you open Pandoras BOX there is no going back. YOU have 3 choises
1, buff up and stay competetive, pay IRL money
2, quit the game
3, get ganked with no chans of winning
just make your choise.
the funny thing is that I will also no life play the game 24/7, getting the few drops that the devs give out, and puting them up on market for Ingame money or real money. If we are talking Entropida universe where the ingame money = Real Cash. So not only is the game making a huge dent in your wallet each month, to even keep you playing, you are alos paying me wages . Iv done this in a few games so I know it works...
Its in me and my friends best interest that you go to the cash shop and also buy the stuff we put on the market so you can stay competetive, so we will gank, spank and force you to do it so we can make more IRL money ourselfs.
Once again you are only looking at one side. Those options would only apply if 1. I was playing for competition which I'm not, 2. I'm playing in an FFA PvP which I usually don't. These points right there make your argument worthless.
Most of the games I play are mostly PvE with some PvP which means I always have a 4th choice... just play the pve part which is usually what I do because again... "I chose not to play MMO games to be competitive." It does come down to choice, people need to decide what they play for. And it is for far more than the limited options you have insinuated.
Venge Sunsoar
But Vemgesunsoar this thread is not called "what do Vengesunsoar do" I personaly am not discussing if RMT is good for YOU personly or not. I have put forth arguments what the general public might run into if these games become the standard of MMO gaming. Not untill the last post did I go into What I Have done in the Past. As this wasent relevent, but I thought you migth get the point if I told you that RMT games, the true once, Let me EXPLOIT people, and earn IRL money.
I did this thru my college years to boost my founds, and I think you would be surprised if I told you how mush money I made a month. Now im older and iv started to think that maybe the selfish way is not the way to improve life.
So I have in serveral post pointed out the dangers in RMT gaming. Now those things might not concern you. But somone somewhere are gona get the End of the stick. You do not care about this, as long as its not YOU, but I DO. that is the diffrence betwen you and me. You are looking out for number one and Im taking care of the Herd.
Now you can try and shoot down post all Night long, but after the smoke settles people are still gona get Exploited. abused and lose money in RMT games. And no mather what you say you will not change this fact because its true.
And I have nullified your argument by posting what another option that someone in the general public could do.
I wouldn't be surprised that you made a lot of money. I know there is a lot of people that do play these games for competitiion. I'm saying more are playing them casually as games, for simple entertainment and so your three options are meaningless and do not apply to them.
Yes people will still get exploited. I've never denied that. People are being exploited in games that allow RMT and games that do not allow RMT. There are extreme examples of people doing stupid things in both situations. That is not the norm again in both types of games. And yes measures should be taken to stop people from being exploited. The dangers of RMT gaming are real, just like the dangers of internet addiction and unhealthy obsessive gaming behaviours are real. Once again that is not the norm. They are the exception. It is not a reason to stop it, it is a reason to monitor and possibly regulate it.
As will all things. When all the smoke has settles people need to take personal responsibility for their actions.
Venge Sunsoar
The Real RMT games do pose a significantly larger threat then the p2p game, If you look at the risk of going broke, and losing controll of your econamy. They are buildt to make you want to pay those extra bucks for better gear, larger bag space etc.
like somone pointed out before the avrage RMT games have a 89/10/1 ratio , where 89% wont pay anything to play 10% pay the usal fee lets for arguments sake say that is 14,95, the average monthy fee for p2p game. and the last 1% are willing to pay alot more I would say 50-100 bucks. Now that is a lot of money if the free realm have say 2m users, and some of them do. 1%=20kx100 you do the math.
If RMT and micro transactions become the standard expect the 1% figure to rise to 10% its a developers dream come true...
The new graf would look somthing like this 50/40/10 you still have half of your subcribers paying nothing but 10% might be paying 5-10 times more money then the p2p Gamer. And they combat the farmers who try and sell thier IP(virtiual money/items) they own to make money themselfs
It migth look like a good modle, but in the end We as consumers end up spending more money to play, in my book this is the wrong way to go.
Contrary to what many people believe here I actually do have a limit with regards to RMT. As I stated before if I find something in a game truely boring I make a choice, is this a game breaker for me? yes or no? If I still want to play the game can I use the game mechanics to get by. The answer so far has been yes, I can usually find some other way to get past that ugly part, or end up paying someone in game to do it for me.
E.g. in Istaria someone is paying me (using in game coin) to collect trophies for them. I need a couple gold for a lair and plot, they don't want to grind trophies to level a character. For those who don't know, mobs drop trophies that NPC's in the game collect and give you coin and xp. I like fighting with my dragon so it works for me. Now because of that I have enough to buy my lair and almost enough for a plot.
For RMT I would prefer to have it legal, there are issues with account hacks and what not. Dealing with the company I think would be more secure than some other faceless entity on the web.
I stated I wouldn't care if god mode items came out, and truthfully I woudln't because I don't find them game breaking for my style of play. But there is a limit on what game breaking is for me. That would be paying more (above the allready cost of expansion) to access some area of the game that is physically impossible to do without buying a special zone permit, and crafting. I want to be able to craft everything and not have it be limited to an RMT situation.
Most other things I feel don't affect really affect anyone unless they let it.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Comments
This post makes it sound like the self-description is spot on. First, you contradict yourself in saying that the RMT issue is only being debated on sites like this and then give an example of a publication unrelated to this site in which the issue was discussed. You try to discount that author with pointless name-calling and insults, but you've already undermined your own credibility by posting an argument you knew in advance to be false.
Second, you contradict yourself again by using mainstream in a universal sense but then trying to discount games popular and widely played in areas of the world that are much more populous than the United States or Europe. It may be worth noting that gaming is more popular in the younger generations of those societies than it is in ours, especially from the perspective of determining what is "mainstream."
RMT has caught on, and is popular throughout the world, whether it's a good thing or not, and whether you like it or not. Saying that you don't like it would be honest. Saying that it's not popular because you don't like it is not honest. Spinning in mental circles like a dog chasing its tail to try to prove that it's not is just silly and won't advance the discussion a bit.
-Teaching kids to cut corners-
This topic is even worse than the last one. Assuming you have an RMT system that doesn't imbalance payers and non payers, this really doesn't exist. I don't even think it does exist.
Honestly, I tend to agree with the the statement but not only kids it's all players in general. One thing that these RMT games depend on is the infectious competition between players.
For example, Runes of magic has a daily quest reset ticket. I know people who ABUSED it to level faster than anyone else. These people leveled fast, were getting into higher level dungeons which in turn were getting better geared. They were revered in our guild and on the server, quickly the egos was blown out of proportion. This led to rude comments to the people who didn't abuse that method and discontent within the guild. Which will always happen in a competetive environment.
Considering the Nick Yee has surveyed that the average mmo gamer age to be 33, that most likely means a stable job and ultimately more access to cash. Versus the 17 yr old with the allowance, no job and no credit card this is no competition if the older of the two decides to (ab)use the cash shop.
So, how does that balance out?
This quote is dedicated to to FOUR horsmen of the Apocalyps, Vengesunsoar, bmdevine, madux and the man from the States Orthedos. Give your thanx to Scot he has come up with your dream game...
This quote is dedicated to to FOUR horsmen of the Apocalyps, Vengesunsoar, bmdevine, madux and the man from the States Orthedos. Give your thanx to Scot he has come up with your dream game...
The idea that RMT creates a extortionately priced market is garbage. The game design creates this. Unlimited gold being created and very little leaving means that with or without RMT items become increasingly more expensive.
The exact same argument can be said for time. But once again I could care less, I play for enjoyment, I'll let you play your way. My dreamgame is one where everyone would stop bitching about everything and everyone, where everyone would stop worrying about what other people are doing and focus on playing.
Venge Sunsoar
This quote is dedicated to to FOUR horsmen of the Apocalyps, Vengesunsoar, bmdevine, madux and the man from the States Orthedos. Give your thanx to Scot he has come up with your dream game...
The idea that RMT creates a extortionately priced market is garbage. The game design creates this. Unlimited gold being created and very little leaving means that with or without RMT items become increasingly more expensive.
The exact same argument can be said for time. But once again I could care less, I play for enjoyment, I'll let you play your way. My dreamgame is one where everyone would stop bitching about everything and everyone, where everyone would stop worrying about what other people are doing and focus on playing.
Venge Sunsoar
edit: in the end it always comes down to choices, time and money. Why am I playing? Do I enjoy it or not? I have to pay for the items/content - either a whopping 50 bucks on expansion if one comes or 2 bucks on whatever it is. I dont' see any difference.
This quote is dedicated to to FOUR horsmen of the Apocalyps, Vengesunsoar, bmdevine, madux and the man from the States Orthedos. Give your thanx to Scot he has come up with your dream game...
The idea that RMT creates a extortionately priced market is garbage. The game design creates this. Unlimited gold being created and very little leaving means that with or without RMT items become increasingly more expensive.
The exact same argument can be said for time. But once again I could care less, I play for enjoyment, I'll let you play your way. My dreamgame is one where everyone would stop bitching about everything and everyone, where everyone would stop worrying about what other people are doing and focus on playing.
Venge Sunsoar
I dont know how mush experience you have with chines/korean RMT games but trust me when I say that, If you want to stay competetive and at the top off the food chain you are gona have to put in some cash.
I play EvE now for free as I sell my ISK legaly in that game to people who pay for GMT cards. These people spend alot mor then the usal 14,95 a month to play. But im happy as it makes me able to play for free...
Smart people will exploit weaker people. I played Entropida universe for a while also and I made a few bucks before I quit it because it was starting to become a full time jobb. I still have friends who make thier living playing that game.
I have a college degree and I have worked in both marketing/sails and economics, and that is one of the reasons I like EvE.
Im not crusading on these forums aginst RMT for my own sake I just know that there are more sharks in the water like me and they are gona bleed your wallets dry if RMT becomes the norm in these games. They will Exploit and take advantage of it and in the end its Avrage JOE who picks up the tab.
But in the end if you want to get used and abused, and some of you are rely asking for it, I cant stop you
so good luck and hope you dont run into someone like me when you are playing because the chans is he will take you on a run for you money...
Ps ; im not from the US im from a socialist country in Europe, this might be the reason that I think We as players have a moral obligation to speak up against things that might be harmfull to our fellow players... And we have had a few court cases here against RMT games expoiting children for example.
Come back to me with that argument after I ganked your for the 20thed time and harrazed you while you tried and play the game.. Most ( I would say all but im not 100% sure) existing RMT games today have World PVP implemented.
I will abuse and destroy your gameplay and force you to get the same gear if you want to keep playing. Thats how RMT games work once you open Pandoras BOX there is no going back. YOU have 3 choises
1, buff up and stay competetive, pay IRL money
2, quit the game
3, get ganked with no chans of winning
just make your choise.
the funny thing is that I will also no life play the game 24/7, getting the few drops that the devs give out, and puting them up on market for Ingame money or real money. If we are talking Entropida universe where the ingame money = Real Cash. So not only is the game making a huge dent in your wallet each month, to even keep you playing, you are alos paying me wages
. Iv done this in a few games so I know it works...
Its in me and my friends best interest that you go to the cash shop and also buy the stuff we put on the market so you can stay competetive, so we will gank, spank and force you to do it so we can make more IRL money ourselfs.
This quote is dedicated to to FOUR horsmen of the Apocalyps, Vengesunsoar, bmdevine, madux and the man from the States Orthedos. Give your thanx to Scot he has come up with your dream game...
/yawn
This post makes it sound like the self-description is spot on. First, you contradict yourself in saying that the RMT issue is only being debated on sites like this and then give an example of a publication unrelated to this site in which the issue was discussed.
Because they are the same thing...the publication is a canned sub-community of the MMO community, just like this site is. There is no contradiction. The vast majority of MMO players are not reading his column, or visiting this site.
You try to discount that author with pointless name-calling and insults
They arent pointless, they are well earned. He really is a douchbag dumbass.
but you've already undermined your own credibility by posting an argument you knew in advance to be false.
Apparently not enough that you feel comfortable not spending several paragraphs responding to it.
Second, you contradict yourself again by using mainstream in a universal sense but then trying to discount games popular and widely played in areas of the world that are much more populous than the United States or Europe.
Which is why I explicitly made a distinction between the two markets. Please pay attention.
It may be worth noting that gaming is more popular in the younger generations of those societies than it is in ours, especially from the perspective of determining what is "mainstream."
By mainstream I was obviously referring to the US market, which is why I made the distinction in the first place.
RMT has caught on, and is popular throughout the world
...as long as "throughout the world" doesnt include the US or Europe...
Saying that it's not popular because you don't like it is not honest.
Saying it is popular "throughout the world" despite the fact that no major MMOs in the US or Europe embrace it would be dishonest by your own criteria, no?
I guess SOE has no major MMOs in the US, and no one in the US plays any F2P games like Runes of Magic. Sorry, BD, but the fact that you don't happen to like something does not and will not change reality.
Me: Is it safe to say that in my basketball game analogy above, the people forced to use the higher baskets would probably not have as much fun?
No it is not safe to assume that
Well, I disagree. I think most basketball players (professional or not) would be opposed to allowing some players an easier way to make baskets than others.
The heights are uniform because it is assumed that the people playing are playing for competition
Assumed by who? I dont know anyone who plays the game, for "competition" or not, that favors allowing some players an easier way to score than others.
however many have heights tha are adjustable
Yep...but have you noticed how they are always the same height on both sides, no matter how they are adjusted? No matter how easy or hard it is to make a basket, it is the same for both sides. If only one side was allowed to adjust their basket, the game would no longer be fun.
I and many others don't play for competition so RMT has no effect on me or these players at all.
Well, then you are part of a minority, if the current market is any indication.
MMO's are not a competitive environment unless you choose them to be that way.
Most people choose to play that way IMO. Even in PvE-centric MMOs. There are more forms of competition than just combat.
A level playing field is what makes it entertaining for you.
And for most people who play MMOs in the US and Europe, if the current market is any indication.
I dont' think so at all. While most mainstream games do not allow it, the fact is it is in all games.
Give me an example of RMT in a mainstream US/European MMO that uses RMT for anything other than trivial items.
City of heroes now not only gives costume packs, but some powers as well.
And all have little or no effect on the game. So the playing field remains level. No one on my side is complaining about this or considers this a real example of RMT.
RMT to me would be if CoH only allowed you to use the epic archtypes if you pay more money. Or if they restricted access to the energy blaster powerset to people who pay more money. THAT would be RMT.
I don't know where most of the farmers live but I'm pretty sure there are a number of them in the U.S. and E.U. and probably significantly more that buy it. After all there are a ton of websites in English, so they are catering to these markets.
That doesnt necessarily mean a majority (or even sizable minority) of the MMO player base uses them. It just means enough people use them to make the english sites worthwhile.
And yet the mainstream MMO's are starting to put it in in some form or another
Are the trivial examples you gave above the only examples of "mainstream" RMT you can find?
I applaud your good judgment. Now why dont you take the full step into the light and leave the Dark side for good. The Crusade against RMT needs you!
Come back to me with that argument after I ganked your for the 20thed time and harrazed you while you tried and play the game.. Most ( I would say all but im not 100% sure) existing RMT games today have World PVP implemented.
I will abuse and destroy your gameplay and force you to get the same gear if you want to keep playing. Thats how RMT games work once you open Pandoras BOX there is no going back. YOU have 3 choises
1, buff up and stay competetive, pay IRL money
2, quit the game
3, get ganked with no chans of winning
just make your choise.
the funny thing is that I will also no life play the game 24/7, getting the few drops that the devs give out, and puting them up on market for Ingame money or real money. If we are talking Entropida universe where the ingame money = Real Cash. So not only is the game making a huge dent in your wallet each month, to even keep you playing, you are alos paying me wages
. Iv done this in a few games so I know it works...
Its in me and my friends best interest that you go to the cash shop and also buy the stuff we put on the market so you can stay competetive, so we will gank, spank and force you to do it so we can make more IRL money ourselfs.
Once again you are only looking at one side. Those options would only apply if 1. I was playing for competition which I'm not, 2. I'm playing in an FFA PvP which I usually don't. These points right there make your argument worthless.
Most of the games I play are mostly PvE with some PvP which means I always have a 4th choice... just play the pve part which is usually what I do because again... "I chose not to play MMO games to be competitive." It does come down to choice, people need to decide what they play for. And it is for far more than the limited options you have insinuated.
Venge Sunsoar
Actually in game without RMT replicates real life more. You don't buy your way through life with money. You earn money in some way through playing the game of life. It is our real life economy. You don't go out of the real world and with an alien credit card and purchase earth world items or earth money with it.That is what you are wanting to do in these gaming worlds.
The game is already designed with a currency and ways to play to get it. That is the in game economy. Also all you folks saying RMT is good because it helps allievate the "grind" for folks who do not have enough time to play ... why pay a developer for a game that isn't designed with you in mind? That is illogical. Instead of swiping the credit card to skip parts of some game, play one that has you in mind. If you continue to pay to skip the game in the current games, the developers will feel these current games are fine. You actually encourage them to make more time sinks for you people without much time by swiping your credit card to skip content.
They then know that these time sinks games are popular and the people that do not have enough time to play their game model are gullable enough to pull out the credit card to skip parts of the game.
I play EvE now for free as I sell my ISK legaly in that game to people who pay for GMT cards. These people spend alot mor then the usal 14,95 a month to play. But im happy as it makes me able to play for free...
I dont consider EVE RMT though, because it isnt something the developers are selling, and does not affect the playing field sufficiently IMO...you may be able to afford a Battleship, but it is useless without the skills to fly it, and you cannot buy those skills. For this reason, it does not significantly imbalance the game. Most people who play the game can already afford a Battleship by the time they have the skills to fly one.
Also, ships in Eve are subject to permanent loss, which is not the case in most MMOs. That shiny new Nightmare you just spent 1 million+ ISK on? If you lose it, its gone. So you better make sure you have the skills not only to fly it, but fly it well. Insurance wont be near enough to cover it. So you better make sure you know what you're doing.
So no n00b is gonna log in fresh off a trial account and buy an expensive ship. At best, they will be able to buy a really good version of whatever they have to fly (equipped with whatever they have the skills to use). So it doesnt unbalance the game, and therefore I would not consider it an example of RMT in the context of this discussion.
I guess SOE has no major MMOs in the US, and no one in the US plays any F2P games like Runes of Magic.
Can you give me a specific example of a SOE game that does?
And yeah, no plays F2P games like Runes of Magic...or almost no one. Their marketshare is laughable compared to the P2P games.
Come back to me with that argument after I ganked your for the 20thed time and harrazed you while you tried and play the game.. Most ( I would say all but im not 100% sure) existing RMT games today have World PVP implemented.
I will abuse and destroy your gameplay and force you to get the same gear if you want to keep playing. Thats how RMT games work once you open Pandoras BOX there is no going back. YOU have 3 choises
1, buff up and stay competetive, pay IRL money
2, quit the game
3, get ganked with no chans of winning
just make your choise.
the funny thing is that I will also no life play the game 24/7, getting the few drops that the devs give out, and puting them up on market for Ingame money or real money. If we are talking Entropida universe where the ingame money = Real Cash. So not only is the game making a huge dent in your wallet each month, to even keep you playing, you are alos paying me wages
. Iv done this in a few games so I know it works...
Its in me and my friends best interest that you go to the cash shop and also buy the stuff we put on the market so you can stay competetive, so we will gank, spank and force you to do it so we can make more IRL money ourselfs.
Once again you are only looking at one side. Those options would only apply if 1. I was playing for competition which I'm not, 2. I'm playing in an FFA PvP which I usually don't. These points right there make your argument worthless.
Most of the games I play are mostly PvE with some PvP which means I always have a 4th choice... just play the pve part which is usually what I do because again... "I chose not to play MMO games to be competitive." It does come down to choice, people need to decide what they play for. And it is for far more than the limited options you have insinuated.
Venge Sunsoar
But Vemgesunsoar this thread is not called "what do Vengesunsoar do" I personaly am not discussing if RMT is good for YOU personly or not. I have put forth arguments what the general public might run into if these games become the standard of MMO gaming. Not untill the last post did I go into What I Have done in the Past. As this wasent relevent, but I thought you migth get the point if I told you that RMT games, the true once, Let me EXPLOIT people, and earn IRL money.
I did this thru my college years to boost my founds, and I think you would be surprised if I told you how mush money I made a month. Now im older and iv started to think that maybe the selfish way is not the way to improve life.
So I have in serveral post pointed out the dangers in RMT gaming. Now those things might not concern you. But somone somewhere are gona get the End of the stick. You do not care about this, as long as its not YOU, but I DO. that is the diffrence betwen you and me. You are looking out for number one and Im taking care of the Herd.
Now you can try and shoot down post all Night long, but after the smoke settles people are still gona get Exploited. abused and lose money in RMT games. And no mather what you say you will not change this fact because its true.
Only reason I pointed it out is to say people are willing to spend more money then 14,95 a month to play a video game. Some people might even lay down thousand of dollars on them. My hole argument against the RMT games are socialistic one, I see the risk of people loosing to mush money in a virtual world. In the end this can become a social problem with people both going broke and getting addicted to these kinds of games. RMT is a dangerus game design and we should do our best to not suport it.
Come back to me with that argument after I ganked your for the 20thed time and harrazed you while you tried and play the game.. Most ( I would say all but im not 100% sure) existing RMT games today have World PVP implemented.
I will abuse and destroy your gameplay and force you to get the same gear if you want to keep playing. Thats how RMT games work once you open Pandoras BOX there is no going back. YOU have 3 choises
1, buff up and stay competetive, pay IRL money
2, quit the game
3, get ganked with no chans of winning
just make your choise.
the funny thing is that I will also no life play the game 24/7, getting the few drops that the devs give out, and puting them up on market for Ingame money or real money. If we are talking Entropida universe where the ingame money = Real Cash. So not only is the game making a huge dent in your wallet each month, to even keep you playing, you are alos paying me wages
. Iv done this in a few games so I know it works...
Its in me and my friends best interest that you go to the cash shop and also buy the stuff we put on the market so you can stay competetive, so we will gank, spank and force you to do it so we can make more IRL money ourselfs.
Once again you are only looking at one side. Those options would only apply if 1. I was playing for competition which I'm not, 2. I'm playing in an FFA PvP which I usually don't. These points right there make your argument worthless.
Most of the games I play are mostly PvE with some PvP which means I always have a 4th choice... just play the pve part which is usually what I do because again... "I chose not to play MMO games to be competitive." It does come down to choice, people need to decide what they play for. And it is for far more than the limited options you have insinuated.
Venge Sunsoar
But Vemgesunsoar this thread is not called "what do Vengesunsoar do" I personaly am not discussing if RMT is good for YOU personly or not. I have put forth arguments what the general public might run into if these games become the standard of MMO gaming. Not untill the last post did I go into What I Have done in the Past. As this wasent relevent, but I thought you migth get the point if I told you that RMT games, the true once, Let me EXPLOIT people, and earn IRL money.
I did this thru my college years to boost my founds, and I think you would be surprised if I told you how mush money I made a month. Now im older and iv started to think that maybe the selfish way is not the way to improve life.
So I have in serveral post pointed out the dangers in RMT gaming. Now those things might not concern you. But somone somewhere are gona get the End of the stick. You do not care about this, as long as its not YOU, but I DO. that is the diffrence betwen you and me. You are looking out for number one and Im taking care of the Herd.
Now you can try and shoot down post all Night long, but after the smoke settles people are still gona get Exploited. abused and lose money in RMT games. And no mather what you say you will not change this fact because its true.
And I have nullified your argument by posting what another option that someone in the general public could do.
I wouldn't be surprised that you made a lot of money. I know there is a lot of people that do play these games for competitiion. I'm saying more are playing them casually as games, for simple entertainment and so your three options are meaningless and do not apply to them.
Yes people will still get exploited. I've never denied that. People are being exploited in games that allow RMT and games that do not allow RMT. There are extreme examples of people doing stupid things in both situations. That is not the norm again in both types of games. And yes measures should be taken to stop people from being exploited. The dangers of RMT gaming are real, just like the dangers of internet addiction and unhealthy obsessive gaming behaviours are real. Once again that is not the norm. They are the exception. It is not a reason to stop it, it is a reason to monitor and possibly regulate it.
As will all things. When all the smoke has settles people need to take personal responsibility for their actions.
Venge Sunsoar
Me: Well, I disagree. I think most basketball players (professional or not) would be opposed to allowing some players an easier way to make baskets than others.
And yet it happens in thousands of courts every day in the world
Like where? Sorry, I call bullshit. I've never seen that happen even once.
If it happens at all, it is obviously a tiny minority. Just like the RMT supporters.
No they are not always the same height, again see above. When adults playing with children, or healthy playign with special populations (just to name a few obvious examples) the heights are often different on each side.
And yet, all the basketball games dont seem to fit that model. Can we then assume a majority of basketball players prefer a level playing field?
Me: Well, then you are part of a minority, if the current market is any indication.
The market is overwhelmingly catered to casuals. And most casuals are not playing at the same level of competition
Most casuals seem to prefer a level playing field as well, if the current market is any indication.
There are many forms of competition but most play games for entertainment
"Competition" and "entertainment" are hardly mutually exclusive terms. The fact that competition is entertaining is precisely why, IMO, RMT is confined to the fringes of the MMO world in the west. And will probably remain there.
City of Heroes you can buy special powers now.
Give me an example of a special power available via RMT that significantly impacts balance in the game.
I play CoH btw.
Those powers let you heal quicker, and have stamina recover faster.
By what, .0005%? Gimme a break.
That falls into the "trivial" RMT category I described earlier. It has no significant impact on balance.
Whether you consider it relevant or not is itself irrelevant it met all the criteria you stated.
I disagree. If that is really as far as RMT will ever go, then I would have no problem with RMT. But that is not what RMT opponents are talking about when they criticize RMT.
Trivial or not they are there, the fact that they weren't there before indicates that the RMT field is expanding
You forgot to put "expanding" in quotes.
Only reason I pointed it out is to say people are willing to spend more money then 14,95 a month to play a video game.
Oh, I agree. As I already stated earlier, I never had a problem with people being allowed to spend money on MMOs beyond the base price...I only have a problem when it significantly impacts game balance. And I think that is true of most people criticizing RMT right now.
I see the risk of people loosing to mush money in a virtual world. In the end this can become a social problem with people both going broke and getting addicted to these kinds of games.
Yeah, but they should still have the freedom to do it IMO. People do lots of things that are not healthy or in their best interest. But it isnt up to you or me to dictate to them what they can do with their free time.
If the Asian world wants to spend every cent they have on grindy RMT games, I am ok with them doing that...so long as I dont have to play in the same game with them.
RMT is a dangerus game design and we should do our best to not suport it.
That is like saying we should do our best not to support people setting themselves on fire. While some people may do it anyway, the fact that it is a very unpleasant experience alone is enough of an incentive for most people not to do it. RMT will not catch on for the same reason.
Come back to me with that argument after I ganked your for the 20thed time and harrazed you while you tried and play the game.. Most ( I would say all but im not 100% sure) existing RMT games today have World PVP implemented.
I will abuse and destroy your gameplay and force you to get the same gear if you want to keep playing. Thats how RMT games work once you open Pandoras BOX there is no going back. YOU have 3 choises
1, buff up and stay competetive, pay IRL money
2, quit the game
3, get ganked with no chans of winning
just make your choise.
the funny thing is that I will also no life play the game 24/7, getting the few drops that the devs give out, and puting them up on market for Ingame money or real money. If we are talking Entropida universe where the ingame money = Real Cash. So not only is the game making a huge dent in your wallet each month, to even keep you playing, you are alos paying me wages
. Iv done this in a few games so I know it works...
Its in me and my friends best interest that you go to the cash shop and also buy the stuff we put on the market so you can stay competetive, so we will gank, spank and force you to do it so we can make more IRL money ourselfs.
Once again you are only looking at one side. Those options would only apply if 1. I was playing for competition which I'm not, 2. I'm playing in an FFA PvP which I usually don't. These points right there make your argument worthless.
Most of the games I play are mostly PvE with some PvP which means I always have a 4th choice... just play the pve part which is usually what I do because again... "I chose not to play MMO games to be competitive." It does come down to choice, people need to decide what they play for. And it is for far more than the limited options you have insinuated.
Venge Sunsoar
But Vemgesunsoar this thread is not called "what do Vengesunsoar do" I personaly am not discussing if RMT is good for YOU personly or not. I have put forth arguments what the general public might run into if these games become the standard of MMO gaming. Not untill the last post did I go into What I Have done in the Past. As this wasent relevent, but I thought you migth get the point if I told you that RMT games, the true once, Let me EXPLOIT people, and earn IRL money.
I did this thru my college years to boost my founds, and I think you would be surprised if I told you how mush money I made a month. Now im older and iv started to think that maybe the selfish way is not the way to improve life.
So I have in serveral post pointed out the dangers in RMT gaming. Now those things might not concern you. But somone somewhere are gona get the End of the stick. You do not care about this, as long as its not YOU, but I DO. that is the diffrence betwen you and me. You are looking out for number one and Im taking care of the Herd.
Now you can try and shoot down post all Night long, but after the smoke settles people are still gona get Exploited. abused and lose money in RMT games. And no mather what you say you will not change this fact because its true.
And I have nullified your argument by posting what another option that someone in the general public could do.
I wouldn't be surprised that you made a lot of money. I know there is a lot of people that do play these games for competitiion. I'm saying more are playing them casually as games, for simple entertainment and so your three options are meaningless and do not apply to them.
Yes people will still get exploited. I've never denied that. People are being exploited in games that allow RMT and games that do not allow RMT. There are extreme examples of people doing stupid things in both situations. That is not the norm again in both types of games. And yes measures should be taken to stop people from being exploited. The dangers of RMT gaming are real, just like the dangers of internet addiction and unhealthy obsessive gaming behaviours are real. Once again that is not the norm. They are the exception. It is not a reason to stop it, it is a reason to monitor and possibly regulate it.
As will all things. When all the smoke has settles people need to take personal responsibility for their actions.
Venge Sunsoar
The Real RMT games do pose a significantly larger threat then the p2p game, If you look at the risk of going broke, and losing controll of your econamy. They are buildt to make you want to pay those extra bucks for better gear, larger bag space etc.
like somone pointed out before the avrage RMT games have a 89/10/1 ratio , where 89% wont pay anything to play 10% pay the usal fee lets for arguments sake say that is 14,95, the average monthy fee for p2p game. and the last 1% are willing to pay alot more I would say 50-100 bucks. Now that is a lot of money if the free realm have say 2m users, and some of them do. 1%=20kx100 you do the math.
If RMT and micro transactions become the standard expect the 1% figure to rise to 10% its a developers dream come true...
The new graf would look somthing like this 50/40/10 you still have half of your subcribers paying nothing but 10% might be paying 5-10 times more money then the p2p Gamer. And they combat the farmers who try and sell thier IP(virtiual money/items) they own to make money themselfs
It migth look like a good modle, but in the end We as consumers end up spending more money to play, in my book this is the wrong way to go.
Contrary to what many people believe here I actually do have a limit with regards to RMT. As I stated before if I find something in a game truely boring I make a choice, is this a game breaker for me? yes or no? If I still want to play the game can I use the game mechanics to get by. The answer so far has been yes, I can usually find some other way to get past that ugly part, or end up paying someone in game to do it for me.
E.g. in Istaria someone is paying me (using in game coin) to collect trophies for them. I need a couple gold for a lair and plot, they don't want to grind trophies to level a character. For those who don't know, mobs drop trophies that NPC's in the game collect and give you coin and xp. I like fighting with my dragon so it works for me. Now because of that I have enough to buy my lair and almost enough for a plot.
For RMT I would prefer to have it legal, there are issues with account hacks and what not. Dealing with the company I think would be more secure than some other faceless entity on the web.
I stated I wouldn't care if god mode items came out, and truthfully I woudln't because I don't find them game breaking for my style of play. But there is a limit on what game breaking is for me. That would be paying more (above the allready cost of expansion) to access some area of the game that is physically impossible to do without buying a special zone permit, and crafting. I want to be able to craft everything and not have it be limited to an RMT situation.
Most other things I feel don't affect really affect anyone unless they let it.
Venge Sunsoar