I have no objection of censoring internet content as long as it's done within reason.. I have no objection that we do this with music bought at stores, movies you go to see or locations you aren't allowed to go due to age.. It's just the way it is and as a parent I do NOT want my daughter using the interent to circumvent societies rules of censoring.. It's about time people start holding internet information accountable, especially to MINORS.. PERIOD..
I mean no offense to you when I say this, but it is really a parents responsibilty to monitor what their children are doing on the internet. The only thing that I agree with with this whole internet filtering is that they are trying to prevent access to child pornography; that said it seems that the Australian government is getting a little carried away.
Wrong.. To say it's the parents job 100% is incorrect.. Minors aren't allowed to purchase cigs, adult content music, or games, or magazines or go to an R or X rated movie.. It is the business's DUTY to not provide adult material to minors.. Internet businesses should NOT be excluded from the same rules and laws that other businesses endure.. Rather is be online games or other websites.. We as a society, thru our govt must provide a safe and appropriate enviroment for our children.. I as a parent do not want a 7-11 store selling my child a Playboy magazine, and using the internet to circumvent societies standards isn't an excuse..
PS.. becareful what you read too.. as I recall it was talking about downloadable games and content.. If WoW or other games do NOT fullfill the requirements to sell on the shelves, it shouldn't be sold via internet to get around the rules.. As the govt as said, they need to fine tune the problem, such as adding new ratings and whatnots..
I understand you want to keep you children safe and free from negative outside influences, but you can't its impossible the real world is happening all around us and nothing can keep them safe from that. Its like saying we are gonna make a bomb that only kills people over the age of 16......EDUCATION is the key and yes it fall mainly on the shoulders of the parents and to it doesn't is lazy parenting
Your logic fails.. Just because a small number of slip thru the cracks does not excuse or justify removing our standards.. If we use your logic we should abolish speed limits because people are going to speed anyways.. So why bother, right? Your logic also fails as I have discussed before.. It's NOT 100% parents responsibility to keep their children safe from harm.. As I said, Bussinesses have a duty to as well, as so do our school systems, and our govt.. Actually, it's strong parenting that is standing up and asking the govt's to take action.. I can't stop bussinesses from exposing my child to adult content alone, hence LAWS.. Without laws and rulse we end up living in a society in chaos..
you logic is non-existent...if you want business to take responsibility send them your children and wipe your hands clean. I agree that businesses should rate games in accordance with the law but to say that they should be responsible for children seeing or doing bad things......Parents are the biggest influence a child has! If they are getting bad influences and making bad choices walk into your bathroom and look in the mirror. And where the parents leave off the schools need to pick up not some media ran company that's sole purpose is to make money as quickly and efficiently as possible. Take responsibility for what is yourself and you won't have to worry about what your children are looking at because you can trust they learned the right lessons that they won't let outside influences change those morals.... The real world corrupts more than any video game ever could.
Ahhh so what you are saying is that it's the parents fault if the child buys liquor from the store on the corner... Great logic there..
/e ignore (click)
yes it is the parents fault the child buy liquor from a store. You should mind your children better.
you are a lazy parent and want someone else to teach your children morals and lessons.
That is the most idiotic thing I've ever read. Short of brainwashing your children, locking them up, or spying on them, how could you stop them? I suppose you never ever disobeyed your parents? Children have their own mind, not their parent's minds. Also, where I live, selling liquor to children is 100% illegal, and the parents wouldn't be the ones in trouble.
I have no objection of censoring internet content as long as it's done within reason.. I have no objection that we do this with music bought at stores, movies you go to see or locations you aren't allowed to go due to age.. It's just the way it is and as a parent I do NOT want my daughter using the interent to circumvent societies rules of censoring.. It's about time people start holding internet information accountable, especially to MINORS.. PERIOD..
Can we interpret this to mean full support for banning and/or censoring information on the internet that would aid, assist, or encourage a minor in engaging in criminal, socially unacceptable, or immoral behaviour?
I have no objection of censoring internet content as long as it's done within reason.. I have no objection that we do this with music bought at stores, movies you go to see or locations you aren't allowed to go due to age.. It's just the way it is and as a parent I do NOT want my daughter using the interent to circumvent societies rules of censoring.. It's about time people start holding internet information accountable, especially to MINORS.. PERIOD..
Can we interpret this to mean full support for banning and/or censoring information on the internet that would aid, assist, or encourage a minor in engaging in criminal, socially unacceptable, or immoral behaviour?
Do not ban stuff from the internet - ban parents who let their minor use the computer unsupervised. It is the parents who let computers and/or televisions be their babysitter that are at fault.
There are a lot of tools available for parents to use to help them with their children on the internet, including one that restricts all sites except the ones that the parent allows. Censoring my internet because a parent is uninformed is ridiculous.
i think this is a copout censering the internet will not protect kids, i have lived behind a school for 10 years and every day i go outside and read a book under a tree that is along the frence line of my house, everyday at lauch time kids come running out to play and for about 40mins all i hear is....
F**** you f*** you f*** this f*** that, you C*** etc etc etc
can anyone guess what type of school this is, its a catholic boys school. one time my mum recorded them killing a bird from a tree and we showed the school and nothing was done about it. my point is kids get up to far worst in the school yard they what they will on the internet, i agree child porn must go but pumping 100mil into a filter that only works half the time is wasteful when you can give half of that to shutting down thos sites
On top of that if your 11yo child is looking for bads sites (porn, killing people, bomb making etc) then you need to seek help for your child because blocking it wont fix it.
I'd like to add that my previous post in no way indicates my feelings on this subject. The difference between a child being allowed to get liquor and censoring the internet (beyond illegal things such as child porn) is this: If some parent brings a internet connection into their house, it IS then the parent's responsibility. If you buy liquor, bring it home, and your children drink it, would you blame the liquor store? If it's in your house, it's your responsibility. Censorship like this leads to a very bad place.
Adult rated MMOs may become a thing of the past for the average Aussie gamer if the Australian Governments internet filter goes ahead. It looks like the purchase of games online and the playing of online games will be included in the illegal and blocked sites. There is already some debate if WoW or Aion would be on that list, so you can bet AoC, MO and DFO would be. Some news articles here and here and a google news overview here.
The main issue here is, that this is a blatant attempt of a supposed democratic regime, removing its citizen's freedom of choice.
If you are too poor a parent to monitor your child's internet curiosities, whilst I feel for you - its not my problem. Same goes for TV, be it Pay-TV or free to air. As a parent I am responsible for the services I bring into my house and allow access to. I don't need, and I don't want the Government or anyone else telling me what I can and can't do / watch.
By "Developed" world standards Australian Internet is in the dark ages. To cripple the Australian Internet any further by utilizing their proposed filter seems beyond stupid. To consider such a filter within the confines of technologically sound internet infrastructure is enough of an injury to people's basic rights. To consider it within an infrastructure that's at least 10-20 years behind the leading world merely adds insult to that injury.
I like my MMOs like others like their sport. It's my past-time. I am not 15. If I wanted the Government to spoon-feed me choice-less propaganda Id go live in China.
Consider for a moment - for all you Aussies out there - this new legislation isn't exactly common knowledge. When was the last time you heard popular MMO gaming and YouTube may become a thing of the past for Aussie net users ?
The Australian Democracy is one that purports Freedom of Choice. It's compulsory to vote.
It's my Free Choice to play online MMOs. It may soon be compulsory to only play 15+ rated ones.
Sad really ...... at least the Communist Governments are straight up with their people lol.
I guess there will be VPN-services for those who still want to play stuff uncensored :)the 60+ yearolds who votes yes for these laws should learn something about the internet...
I guess there will be VPN-services for those who still want to play stuff uncensored :)the 60+ yearolds who votes yes for these laws should learn something about the internet...
Unfortunately we don't get to vote on such laws, the current Prime Minister had decided to put an over zealous moron in as Communications Minister; to prove justification of his role he has devised this fabulous internet filter to protect Australians.
Your logic fails.. Just because a small number of slip thru the cracks does not excuse or justify removing our standards.. If we use your logic we should abolish speed limits because people are going to speed anyways.. So why bother, right? Your logic also fails as I have discussed before.. It's NOT 100% parents responsibility to keep their children safe from harm.. As I said, Bussinesses have a duty to as well, as so do our school systems, and our govt.. Actually, it's strong parenting that is standing up and asking the govt's to take action.. I can't stop bussinesses from exposing my child to adult content alone, hence LAWS.. Without laws and rulse we end up living in a society in chaos..
I have to agree with Rydeson here. As a parent I can say that no matter how responsible I try to be, I just can't watch over everything. And locking my kids in a closet, or even hovering over them 24/7, isn't an alternative.
Your logic fails.. Just because a small number of slip thru the cracks does not excuse or justify removing our standards.. If we use your logic we should abolish speed limits because people are going to speed anyways.. So why bother, right? Your logic also fails as I have discussed before.. It's NOT 100% parents responsibility to keep their children safe from harm.. As I said, Bussinesses have a duty to as well, as so do our school systems, and our govt.. Actually, it's strong parenting that is standing up and asking the govt's to take action.. I can't stop bussinesses from exposing my child to adult content alone, hence LAWS.. Without laws and rulse we end up living in a society in chaos..
I have to agree with Rydeson here. As a parent I can say that no matter how responsible I try to be, I just can't watch over everything. And locking my kids in a closet, or even hovering over them 24/7, isn't an alternative.
So because you are a poor parent you wish to limit everyone else's freedoms - how very nice.
Your logic fails.. Just because a small number of slip thru the cracks does not excuse or justify removing our standards.. If we use your logic we should abolish speed limits because people are going to speed anyways.. So why bother, right? Your logic also fails as I have discussed before.. It's NOT 100% parents responsibility to keep their children safe from harm.. As I said, Bussinesses have a duty to as well, as so do our school systems, and our govt.. Actually, it's strong parenting that is standing up and asking the govt's to take action.. I can't stop bussinesses from exposing my child to adult content alone, hence LAWS.. Without laws and rulse we end up living in a society in chaos..
I have to agree with Rydeson here. As a parent I can say that no matter how responsible I try to be, I just can't watch over everything. And locking my kids in a closet, or even hovering over them 24/7, isn't an alternative.
Also a parent I strongly disagree. As stated before in this thread, the answer is to educate our kids in the pitfalls of cyberspace and other facets of life. They will likely access censored information one way or another - better they be aware and prepared.
Lets face it - the kids these days are far more adept at computers than most of us parents lol. I think the last multi- million dollar Government "Filtering Tool" was circumvented by an 11 year old in minutes.
To allow this legislation, is to prevent fun loving Aussies from enjoying many MMOs, and easily sites such as YouTube.
To allow the Australian Government to censor our "Childrens" internet, is to allow censorship of the Australian internet for ALL Australians. It's so simple its stupifying lol - and if you want to keep gaming at under 10,000ms it can't be allowed to happen.
I guess there will be VPN-services for those who still want to play stuff uncensored :)the 60+ yearolds who votes yes for these laws should learn something about the internet...
Unfortunately we don't get to vote on such laws, the current Prime Minister had decided to put an over zealous moron in as Communications Minister; to prove justification of his role he has devised this fabulous internet filter to protect Australians.
I meant the old folks who sit in your parlament...
Originally posted by Amaranthar Originally posted by Rydeson
Your logic fails.. Just because a small number of slip thru the cracks does not excuse or justify removing our standards.. If we use your logic we should abolish speed limits because people are going to speed anyways.. So why bother, right? Your logic also fails as I have discussed before.. It's NOT 100% parents responsibility to keep their children safe from harm.. As I said, Bussinesses have a duty to as well, as so do our school systems, and our govt.. Actually, it's strong parenting that is standing up and asking the govt's to take action.. I can't stop bussinesses from exposing my child to adult content alone, hence LAWS.. Without laws and rulse we end up living in a society in chaos..
I have to agree with Rydeson here. As a parent I can say that no matter how responsible I try to be, I just can't watch over everything. And locking my kids in a closet, or even hovering over them 24/7, isn't an alternative.
There's lots of easy to use programs you can install on your childs computer to take complete controle of her/his webbexperience.
Seriously, this goes far beyond anything reasonable and also beyond just the blocking of some MMO's.
Besides the fact that it is total bull that there is no 18+ rating for games in Australia and therefore all games must be suitable for 15 year or older and there is an 18+ rating for films, the following is completely throwing freedom of speech and information out of the window.
"The list of what is actually blocked and why it is blocked is to be kept secret from the public (though in March a version was leaked to Wikileaks, which is now itself on the blocklist)."
"Currently nine ISPs are trialing the network-filtering plan until next month, which has already proven to block some quite unexpected things: "Alongside child porn, bestiality, rape and extreme violence sites, the list also includes a slew of online poker sites, YouTube links, regular gay and straight porn sites, Wikipedia entries, euthanasia sites, websites of fringe religions such as satanic sites, fetish sites, Christian sites, the website of a tour operator and even a Queensland dentist. Other Australian sites on the list are canteens.com.au ("Tuckshop and Canteen Management Consultants") and animal carers MaroochyBoardingKennels.com.au. The dentist, Dr John Golbrani, was furious when contacted to inform him that his site, dentaldistinction.com.au, appeared on the blacklist." – Sydney Morning Herald "
I mean is that for real?
I seriously hope the Aussies revolt, cause it may set a bad precedent for the rest of the world.
I am a parent myself, I have 2 kids, they learn enough bad stuff from TV, they really don't need a computer with Internet for that. I agree, we try to limit the bad influences to a minimal, and it is not easy, but using a totalitarian regime does not work, we are talking about Australia for crying out loud, not China or Turkey ...
No one in their right mind can agree with this.
I 100% agree that they have to block child pornografy, bestiality, rape and extreme violence sites, basically anything that hurts people or animals on purpose in real life.
But regular porn sites? euthanasia sites? Christian sites? what gives them the right !?
To me it is pretty simple :
1. There should be 18+ ratings, all games should be clearly labeled in a conform manner, giving parents an easy tool to use for a 1st indication of a potential problem, just like this is already done with films.
2. Sites that show the intentional hurting of people or animals should get banned, that is something good, however there should be some sort of supervision from a commission from the parliament, because it is already proven that the government is abusing it's cencorship powers.
Thats all
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
To prevent minors from buying alcohol you institute an age requirement and require an ID. You don't shut down the liquor store.
It's a dangerous and slippery slope when you start shutting out businesses and removing rights for the good of the people. If children start to get too obese, will they ban and remove non government sanctioned foods? If children watch too much TV or too violent of movies, will they block and ban non government sanctioned TV stations and movies? It is for the good of the children after all.
I think the government would be better off using the money to develop and give away internet monitoring/blocking software that parents could install to protect their kids if they so choose. I think it would be wise of the parents to install the software, and agree that kids shouldn't be seeing a lot of the filth that is on the net, but to remove everyone's right to is just crazy.
Youtube banned. This is what worries me, where does it stop? Can't have to much free speech now, can we. *Sigh* Thanks for all the posts guys, I'm just trying to get the information out there any way I can.
Move to the US mate. We love Aussies' here and would be happy to have you.
Some words of encouragement though: China tried to block Google and has now Unblocked it. Google's position is that you cannot censor the interenet and if China is figuring that out Australia should as well.
LineageII | LoTRO | RFO | 9Dragons | Aion | Perfect World | Ether Saga | Dungeon Runners | GuildWars 1 and 2 | Hellgate London | tCoS | Warhammer | AoC | Tabula Rasa | SWTOR youtube.com/gcidogmeat
Your logic fails.. Just because a small number of slip thru the cracks does not excuse or justify removing our standards.. If we use your logic we should abolish speed limits because people are going to speed anyways.. So why bother, right? Your logic also fails as I have discussed before.. It's NOT 100% parents responsibility to keep their children safe from harm.. As I said, Bussinesses have a duty to as well, as so do our school systems, and our govt.. Actually, it's strong parenting that is standing up and asking the govt's to take action.. I can't stop bussinesses from exposing my child to adult content alone, hence LAWS.. Without laws and rulse we end up living in a society in chaos..
I have to agree with Rydeson here. As a parent I can say that no matter how responsible I try to be, I just can't watch over everything. And locking my kids in a closet, or even hovering over them 24/7, isn't an alternative.
Also a parent I strongly disagree. As stated before in this thread, the answer is to educate our kids in the pitfalls of cyberspace and other facets of life. They will likely access censored information one way or another - better they be aware and prepared.
Lets face it - the kids these days are far more adept at computers than most of us parents lol. I think the last multi- million dollar Government "Filtering Tool" was circumvented by an 11 year old in minutes.
To allow this legislation, is to prevent fun loving Aussies from enjoying many MMOs, and easily sites such as YouTube.
To allow the Australian Government to censor our "Childrens" internet, is to allow censorship of the Australian internet for ALL Australians. It's so simple its stupifying lol - and if you want to keep gaming at under 10,000ms it can't be allowed to happen.
Bannanna, good points, but here's the thing, in my mind.
If our kids perceive that everyone else in the world are basically telling them that we parents are wrong, at some point they will be tempted to think that's the case. My youngest is 18 now. I don't know the ages of your kids. But every parent goes through the "rebellious" stages of their kids. If those kids perceive that you are wrong, according to everyone else, that's trouble.
And surely your stance can't be that everything goes, no censorship at all? It would be OK for your kids to visit porn sites freely? Snuff sites? If they have to work around censorship blocks, at least they are being told that you, the parent, are supported by others in what you are teaching them.
Move to the US mate. We love Aussies' here and would be happy to have you. Some words of encouragement though: China tried to block Google and has now Unblocked it. Google's position is that you cannot censor the interenet and if China is figuring that out Australia should as well.
China would have unblocked Google because Google is aiding in the censorship. Exhibit A: China Everywhere else
Your logic fails.. Just because a small number of slip thru the cracks does not excuse or justify removing our standards.. If we use your logic we should abolish speed limits because people are going to speed anyways.. So why bother, right? Your logic also fails as I have discussed before.. It's NOT 100% parents responsibility to keep their children safe from harm.. As I said, Bussinesses have a duty to as well, as so do our school systems, and our govt.. Actually, it's strong parenting that is standing up and asking the govt's to take action.. I can't stop bussinesses from exposing my child to adult content alone, hence LAWS.. Without laws and rulse we end up living in a society in chaos..
I have to agree with Rydeson here. As a parent I can say that no matter how responsible I try to be, I just can't watch over everything. And locking my kids in a closet, or even hovering over them 24/7, isn't an alternative.
Also a parent I strongly disagree. As stated before in this thread, the answer is to educate our kids in the pitfalls of cyberspace and other facets of life. They will likely access censored information one way or another - better they be aware and prepared.
Lets face it - the kids these days are far more adept at computers than most of us parents lol. I think the last multi- million dollar Government "Filtering Tool" was circumvented by an 11 year old in minutes.
To allow this legislation, is to prevent fun loving Aussies from enjoying many MMOs, and easily sites such as YouTube.
To allow the Australian Government to censor our "Childrens" internet, is to allow censorship of the Australian internet for ALL Australians. It's so simple its stupifying lol - and if you want to keep gaming at under 10,000ms it can't be allowed to happen.
Bannanna, good points, but here's the thing, in my mind.
If our kids perceive that everyone else in the world are basically telling them that we parents are wrong, at some point they will be tempted to think that's the case. My youngest is 18 now. I don't know the ages of your kids. But every parent goes through the "rebellious" stages of their kids. If those kids perceive that you are wrong, according to everyone else, that's trouble.
And surely your stance can't be that everything goes, no censorship at all? It would be OK for your kids to visit porn sites freely? Snuff sites? If they have to work around censorship blocks, at least they are being told that you, the parent, are supported by others in what you are teaching them.
Don't like it? Don't get an internet connection, or find a way to deny your children use of it. Don't take other's rights away because you don't want to "lock the liquor cabinet" yourself.
Comments
It's the new trend in europe to.
And yet we live the illusion of beeing free.
Sweden does censor.. it's called the "SBB".. Aren't facts a wonderful thing
I mean no offense to you when I say this, but it is really a parents responsibilty to monitor what their children are doing on the internet. The only thing that I agree with with this whole internet filtering is that they are trying to prevent access to child pornography; that said it seems that the Australian government is getting a little carried away.
Wrong.. To say it's the parents job 100% is incorrect.. Minors aren't allowed to purchase cigs, adult content music, or games, or magazines or go to an R or X rated movie.. It is the business's DUTY to not provide adult material to minors.. Internet businesses should NOT be excluded from the same rules and laws that other businesses endure.. Rather is be online games or other websites.. We as a society, thru our govt must provide a safe and appropriate enviroment for our children.. I as a parent do not want a 7-11 store selling my child a Playboy magazine, and using the internet to circumvent societies standards isn't an excuse..
PS.. becareful what you read too.. as I recall it was talking about downloadable games and content.. If WoW or other games do NOT fullfill the requirements to sell on the shelves, it shouldn't be sold via internet to get around the rules.. As the govt as said, they need to fine tune the problem, such as adding new ratings and whatnots..
I understand you want to keep you children safe and free from negative outside influences, but you can't its impossible the real world is happening all around us and nothing can keep them safe from that. Its like saying we are gonna make a bomb that only kills people over the age of 16......EDUCATION is the key and yes it fall mainly on the shoulders of the parents and to it doesn't is lazy parenting
Your logic fails.. Just because a small number of slip thru the cracks does not excuse or justify removing our standards.. If we use your logic we should abolish speed limits because people are going to speed anyways.. So why bother, right? Your logic also fails as I have discussed before.. It's NOT 100% parents responsibility to keep their children safe from harm.. As I said, Bussinesses have a duty to as well, as so do our school systems, and our govt.. Actually, it's strong parenting that is standing up and asking the govt's to take action.. I can't stop bussinesses from exposing my child to adult content alone, hence LAWS.. Without laws and rulse we end up living in a society in chaos..
you logic is non-existent...if you want business to take responsibility send them your children and wipe your hands clean. I agree that businesses should rate games in accordance with the law but to say that they should be responsible for children seeing or doing bad things......Parents are the biggest influence a child has! If they are getting bad influences and making bad choices walk into your bathroom and look in the mirror. And where the parents leave off the schools need to pick up not some media ran company that's sole purpose is to make money as quickly and efficiently as possible. Take responsibility for what is yourself and you won't have to worry about what your children are looking at because you can trust they learned the right lessons that they won't let outside influences change those morals.... The real world corrupts more than any video game ever could.
Ahhh so what you are saying is that it's the parents fault if the child buys liquor from the store on the corner... Great logic there..
/e ignore (click)
yes it is the parents fault the child buy liquor from a store. You should mind your children better.
you are a lazy parent and want someone else to teach your children morals and lessons.
That is the most idiotic thing I've ever read. Short of brainwashing your children, locking them up, or spying on them, how could you stop them? I suppose you never ever disobeyed your parents? Children have their own mind, not their parent's minds. Also, where I live, selling liquor to children is 100% illegal, and the parents wouldn't be the ones in trouble.
No one buys games in Russia
.
In Russia, games buy you.
MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.
Can we interpret this to mean full support for banning and/or censoring information on the internet that would aid, assist, or encourage a minor in engaging in criminal, socially unacceptable, or immoral behaviour?
Can we interpret this to mean full support for banning and/or censoring information on the internet that would aid, assist, or encourage a minor in engaging in criminal, socially unacceptable, or immoral behaviour?
Do not ban stuff from the internet - ban parents who let their minor use the computer unsupervised. It is the parents who let computers and/or televisions be their babysitter that are at fault.
There are a lot of tools available for parents to use to help them with their children on the internet, including one that restricts all sites except the ones that the parent allows. Censoring my internet because a parent is uninformed is ridiculous.
i think this is a copout censering the internet will not protect kids, i have lived behind a school for 10 years and every day i go outside and read a book under a tree that is along the frence line of my house, everyday at lauch time kids come running out to play and for about 40mins all i hear is....
F**** you f*** you f*** this f*** that, you C*** etc etc etc
can anyone guess what type of school this is, its a catholic boys school. one time my mum recorded them killing a bird from a tree and we showed the school and nothing was done about it. my point is kids get up to far worst in the school yard they what they will on the internet, i agree child porn must go but pumping 100mil into a filter that only works half the time is wasteful when you can give half of that to shutting down thos sites
On top of that if your 11yo child is looking for bads sites (porn, killing people, bomb making etc) then you need to seek help for your child because blocking it wont fix it.
Youtube banned. This is what worries me, where does it stop? Can't have to much free speech now, can we. *Sigh*
Thanks for all the posts guys, I'm just trying to get the information out there any way I can.
I'd like to add that my previous post in no way indicates my feelings on this subject. The difference between a child being allowed to get liquor and censoring the internet (beyond illegal things such as child porn) is this: If some parent brings a internet connection into their house, it IS then the parent's responsibility. If you buy liquor, bring it home, and your children drink it, would you blame the liquor store? If it's in your house, it's your responsibility. Censorship like this leads to a very bad place.
The main issue here is, that this is a blatant attempt of a supposed democratic regime, removing its citizen's freedom of choice.
If you are too poor a parent to monitor your child's internet curiosities, whilst I feel for you - its not my problem. Same goes for TV, be it Pay-TV or free to air. As a parent I am responsible for the services I bring into my house and allow access to. I don't need, and I don't want the Government or anyone else telling me what I can and can't do / watch.
By "Developed" world standards Australian Internet is in the dark ages. To cripple the Australian Internet any further by utilizing their proposed filter seems beyond stupid. To consider such a filter within the confines of technologically sound internet infrastructure is enough of an injury to people's basic rights. To consider it within an infrastructure that's at least 10-20 years behind the leading world merely adds insult to that injury.
I like my MMOs like others like their sport. It's my past-time. I am not 15. If I wanted the Government to spoon-feed me choice-less propaganda Id go live in China.
Consider for a moment - for all you Aussies out there - this new legislation isn't exactly common knowledge. When was the last time you heard popular MMO gaming and YouTube may become a thing of the past for Aussie net users ?
The Australian Democracy is one that purports Freedom of Choice. It's compulsory to vote.
It's my Free Choice to play online MMOs. It may soon be compulsory to only play 15+ rated ones.
Sad really ...... at least the Communist Governments are straight up with their people lol.
I guess there will be VPN-services for those who still want to play stuff uncensored :)the 60+ yearolds who votes yes for these laws should learn something about the internet...
Unfortunately we don't get to vote on such laws, the current Prime Minister had decided to put an over zealous moron in as Communications Minister; to prove justification of his role he has devised this fabulous internet filter to protect Australians.
I have to agree with Rydeson here. As a parent I can say that no matter how responsible I try to be, I just can't watch over everything. And locking my kids in a closet, or even hovering over them 24/7, isn't an alternative.
Once upon a time....
I have to agree with Rydeson here. As a parent I can say that no matter how responsible I try to be, I just can't watch over everything. And locking my kids in a closet, or even hovering over them 24/7, isn't an alternative.
So because you are a poor parent you wish to limit everyone else's freedoms - how very nice.
I have to agree with Rydeson here. As a parent I can say that no matter how responsible I try to be, I just can't watch over everything. And locking my kids in a closet, or even hovering over them 24/7, isn't an alternative.
Also a parent I strongly disagree. As stated before in this thread, the answer is to educate our kids in the pitfalls of cyberspace and other facets of life. They will likely access censored information one way or another - better they be aware and prepared.
Lets face it - the kids these days are far more adept at computers than most of us parents lol. I think the last multi- million dollar Government "Filtering Tool" was circumvented by an 11 year old in minutes.
To allow this legislation, is to prevent fun loving Aussies from enjoying many MMOs, and easily sites such as YouTube.
To allow the Australian Government to censor our "Childrens" internet, is to allow censorship of the Australian internet for ALL Australians. It's so simple its stupifying lol - and if you want to keep gaming at under 10,000ms it can't be allowed to happen.
I meant the old folks who sit in your parlament...
I have to agree with Rydeson here. As a parent I can say that no matter how responsible I try to be, I just can't watch over everything. And locking my kids in a closet, or even hovering over them 24/7, isn't an alternative.
There's lots of easy to use programs you can install on your childs computer to take complete controle of her/his webbexperience.
Seriously, this goes far beyond anything reasonable and also beyond just the blocking of some MMO's.
Besides the fact that it is total bull that there is no 18+ rating for games in Australia and therefore all games must be suitable for 15 year or older and there is an 18+ rating for films, the following is completely throwing freedom of speech and information out of the window.
"The list of what is actually blocked and why it is blocked is to be kept secret from the public (though in March a version was leaked to Wikileaks, which is now itself on the blocklist)."
"Currently nine ISPs are trialing the network-filtering plan until next month, which has already proven to block some quite unexpected things: "Alongside child porn, bestiality, rape and extreme violence sites, the list also includes a slew of online poker sites, YouTube links, regular gay and straight porn sites, Wikipedia entries, euthanasia sites, websites of fringe religions such as satanic sites, fetish sites, Christian sites, the website of a tour operator and even a Queensland dentist. Other Australian sites on the list are canteens.com.au ("Tuckshop and Canteen Management Consultants") and animal carers MaroochyBoardingKennels.com.au. The dentist, Dr John Golbrani, was furious when contacted to inform him that his site, dentaldistinction.com.au, appeared on the blacklist." – Sydney Morning Herald "
I mean is that for real?
I seriously hope the Aussies revolt, cause it may set a bad precedent for the rest of the world.
I am a parent myself, I have 2 kids, they learn enough bad stuff from TV, they really don't need a computer with Internet for that. I agree, we try to limit the bad influences to a minimal, and it is not easy, but using a totalitarian regime does not work, we are talking about Australia for crying out loud, not China or Turkey ...
No one in their right mind can agree with this.
I 100% agree that they have to block child pornografy, bestiality, rape and extreme violence sites, basically anything that hurts people or animals on purpose in real life.
But regular porn sites? euthanasia sites? Christian sites? what gives them the right !?
To me it is pretty simple :
1. There should be 18+ ratings, all games should be clearly labeled in a conform manner, giving parents an easy tool to use for a 1st indication of a potential problem, just like this is already done with films.
2. Sites that show the intentional hurting of people or animals should get banned, that is something good, however there should be some sort of supervision from a commission from the parliament, because it is already proven that the government is abusing it's cencorship powers.
Thats all
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
To prevent minors from buying alcohol you institute an age requirement and require an ID. You don't shut down the liquor store.
It's a dangerous and slippery slope when you start shutting out businesses and removing rights for the good of the people. If children start to get too obese, will they ban and remove non government sanctioned foods? If children watch too much TV or too violent of movies, will they block and ban non government sanctioned TV stations and movies? It is for the good of the children after all.
I think the government would be better off using the money to develop and give away internet monitoring/blocking software that parents could install to protect their kids if they so choose. I think it would be wise of the parents to install the software, and agree that kids shouldn't be seeing a lot of the filth that is on the net, but to remove everyone's right to is just crazy.
It takes a whole society to raise a child to be an effective member of that society. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not rational.
Venge Sunsoar
Move to the US mate. We love Aussies' here and would be happy to have you.
Some words of encouragement though: China tried to block Google and has now Unblocked it. Google's position is that you cannot censor the interenet and if China is figuring that out Australia should as well.
youtube.com/gcidogmeat
I have to agree with Rydeson here. As a parent I can say that no matter how responsible I try to be, I just can't watch over everything. And locking my kids in a closet, or even hovering over them 24/7, isn't an alternative.
Also a parent I strongly disagree. As stated before in this thread, the answer is to educate our kids in the pitfalls of cyberspace and other facets of life. They will likely access censored information one way or another - better they be aware and prepared.
Lets face it - the kids these days are far more adept at computers than most of us parents lol. I think the last multi- million dollar Government "Filtering Tool" was circumvented by an 11 year old in minutes.
To allow this legislation, is to prevent fun loving Aussies from enjoying many MMOs, and easily sites such as YouTube.
To allow the Australian Government to censor our "Childrens" internet, is to allow censorship of the Australian internet for ALL Australians. It's so simple its stupifying lol - and if you want to keep gaming at under 10,000ms it can't be allowed to happen.
Bannanna, good points, but here's the thing, in my mind.
If our kids perceive that everyone else in the world are basically telling them that we parents are wrong, at some point they will be tempted to think that's the case. My youngest is 18 now. I don't know the ages of your kids. But every parent goes through the "rebellious" stages of their kids. If those kids perceive that you are wrong, according to everyone else, that's trouble.
And surely your stance can't be that everything goes, no censorship at all? It would be OK for your kids to visit porn sites freely? Snuff sites? If they have to work around censorship blocks, at least they are being told that you, the parent, are supported by others in what you are teaching them.
Once upon a time....
China would have unblocked Google because Google is aiding in the censorship. Exhibit A:
China
Everywhere else
I have to agree with Rydeson here. As a parent I can say that no matter how responsible I try to be, I just can't watch over everything. And locking my kids in a closet, or even hovering over them 24/7, isn't an alternative.
Also a parent I strongly disagree. As stated before in this thread, the answer is to educate our kids in the pitfalls of cyberspace and other facets of life. They will likely access censored information one way or another - better they be aware and prepared.
Lets face it - the kids these days are far more adept at computers than most of us parents lol. I think the last multi- million dollar Government "Filtering Tool" was circumvented by an 11 year old in minutes.
To allow this legislation, is to prevent fun loving Aussies from enjoying many MMOs, and easily sites such as YouTube.
To allow the Australian Government to censor our "Childrens" internet, is to allow censorship of the Australian internet for ALL Australians. It's so simple its stupifying lol - and if you want to keep gaming at under 10,000ms it can't be allowed to happen.
Bannanna, good points, but here's the thing, in my mind.
If our kids perceive that everyone else in the world are basically telling them that we parents are wrong, at some point they will be tempted to think that's the case. My youngest is 18 now. I don't know the ages of your kids. But every parent goes through the "rebellious" stages of their kids. If those kids perceive that you are wrong, according to everyone else, that's trouble.
And surely your stance can't be that everything goes, no censorship at all? It would be OK for your kids to visit porn sites freely? Snuff sites? If they have to work around censorship blocks, at least they are being told that you, the parent, are supported by others in what you are teaching them.
Don't like it? Don't get an internet connection, or find a way to deny your children use of it. Don't take other's rights away because you don't want to "lock the liquor cabinet" yourself.