There's one thing I don't quite grasp though: Character creation and "infinate possibilities appearance customization" may be the single element that is the strongest seller for Champions right? So how does "exclusive microtransaction cosmetic items" fit into that?
I'll tell you this: My overall expectations for CO are low. All I really count on for this game to deliver 100% is for the character creation toolbox to be outstanding. If I got an idea for a look and find out that I can't make it cuz I gotta go into the mall and buy that appearance module on the side, there will be no end to my hatred.
Because there's always going to be someone maybe several that want to feel extra special want to have a slightly different hat or emblem so nwo they can and not everyone will have it so *shrug*. They're the same type of people that buy the Wow card packs for the cool looking Mount that runs at standard mount speed. Or the same people that bought the extra costume packs from City of Heroes. It just gives you a few more choices then the hundreds already presented.
I dont think anyone will be hurting for a look because of the cash shop (just my 2 cents considering everything the devs are saying & hyping) considering the articles coming out on character customization. You should check out Massively's blog series on Create My Champion where people give him suggestions / ideas and he makes them in game.
They said the game isn't based on the cash shop so...unless they're lying I think most reasonable players will be safe from the fear of the Mall.
cant help but seeing alot of similarities between MT and all those dudes selling gold and powerleveling and whatnot. All of the crap associated with MT is already in the games today tnx to goldsellers and their ilk. You want a supermegarare 2h sword thats cost 1000g on ah, what do you do? buy 1000g online froma goldseller and proceed to buy the damn sword. The difference is now the cash goes to the developer( whitch is good) the bad thing is " ITS WRONG!!!!! " game developer has been hunting goldsellers for years and now all of a sudden its ok to use shortcuts as long as the developer get his piece of the action. I think they have realised that there is a lot of lazy players outthere that is willing to pay real life cash for ingame shortcuts. From that point of view its god business to give the player what they obviously are willing to pay for.
I for one hate all goldsellers and think they should be stung up in the nearest tree, but i hate the goldbuyers even more , they are the once to blame for the whole MT crapload we see in more and more games.
Its a game where you compete against yourself and against others, this whole MT crap makes all competion suspect and almost pointless and whats left of the game then, just a goodlooking shell?
But still i will probably give the game a try, and hope that the stuff you can get bye MT is just fluff and that the ingame community clearly show that item bought bye MT are not welcome.
There are stuff we as a community can do to cunteract MT, we can refuse people that use MT in our guilds and raids/group (if we know that they use it).
Lets not forget that they cant force us to buy stuff in MT.
In my book using MT to buy stuff that gives you an edge, thats cheating plain and simple, no matter that the dev says its ok.
My suggestion to all those out there who think that's bad. Wait till after the release of the game and see if your right. Now for those that say, well that "supermega gear" stuff isn't in yet, well it probably won't be.
WHY?
Because people like those that are complaining about MT will "kill them" on the forums over it. Stsr TREK online will die before it's released, just because of this.
I have complained many a time about things in game like this and have found out that my fears were unfounded (except for the hosing Coercers got in EQ2 ).
in addition, if it goes well there WILL be more games following this model for future and current games.
in addition, if it goes well there WILL be more games following this model for future and current games.
I think this is the problem for most of us. Why would we pay 50 or 60 dollars for a game (the developed content) and also pay 15 dollars a month not to have access to everything we could in the game. It's just them trying to squeeze more money out of the consumer when they make more than enough from their subscribers. They're taking the finest point from CoX, the customization and exploiting it for money.
With the lifetime subs it seems like they don't want us to try the game out first since it's offered up until the day before launch.
"I think this is a quite obvious attempt at cashing in on a playertype that , supposedly, is becoming more and more the norm: The adult casual working person, who nonetheless has major issues with accepting that his limited playtime, in combination with RL responsibilities or just plain disinterest, is keeping him from competing in the top tier."
Erm, that's me but I pay to play so if they're aiming at me they're missing the point. I think it is simpler than that. rather than stop gold-farmers they've decided to compete with them and fix the playing field so they win. It also means that players like me get frakked over by the game-makers rather than somebody who has bought from gold farmers. Actually this does hack me off. i report farmers and those involved, now i have to bend over and take it because it's game design? I've bought and got hacked off with a lot of the new games for not living up to the hype etc but I keep trying because there was a deal.
You build it and I'll buy and try it but maybe whine if you do not keep your promises.
I figured if they did what they said they got subs but if not they still got a purchase so a partial pay-off for trying. Not this game though as they've broken the deal. Why pay when being bent over is official game policy? Didn't anybody learn from the fiasco that was Hellgate: London?
in addition, if it goes well there WILL be more games following this model for future and current games.
I think this is the problem for most of us. Why would we pay 50 or 60 dollars for a game (the developed content) and also pay 15 dollars a month not to have access to everything we could in the game. It's just them trying to squeeze more money out of the consumer when they make more than enough from their subscribers. They're taking the finest point from CoX, the customization and exploiting it for money.
With the lifetime subs it seems like they don't want us to try the game out first since it's offered up until the day before launch.
Smells like money-grubbing failure imo.
Spend $5.00 get into OPEN beta before release, therefore you get to try it out before you buy.
Why start adding other sources of revenue on to a product? First, keeps prices down across the board. Instead of raising purchase price or monthly fees($50.00 goes to $75.00 -- monthly goes from $15.00 to $20.00). Think of "Do you want fries with that meal?"
MT will allow more personalization of gaming product.
NOTE: Cable packages are a good idea of why MTs. You may want the SPORTS package that is offered but, it's bundled with the ARTs program. You pay more to get an item you want at the expense of paying for one you don't. Other MAY want the ARTs package but they too get the SPORTS package. MTs allowed unbundled product which MORE people will prefer.
NOTE: Cable packages are a good idea of why MTs. You may want the SPORTS package that is offered but, it's bundled with the ARTs program. You pay more to get an item you want at the expense of paying for one you don't. Other MAY want the ARTs package but they too get the SPORTS package. MTs allowed unbundled product which MORE people will prefer.
This sounds more like varied subscription rates rather than a MT cash shop.
Edit: What happened to your box purchase and your subscription purchase being all-inclusive?
I'd love to find the article for you, but I'm positive I read that Atari acquired Cryptic because they had the right tools to cut development costs substantially. To what benefit to the consumer?
"I am impressed with the tools and technology that Cryptic has developed to make MMOs less expensive to build. Creating vast worlds and interesting interactions can be very people intensive but with the use of Cryptic's toolset they have a proven way of cutting average production costs in half. This is exactly the type of company we wanted to acquire in order to build Atari for the 21st century."
So with lesser production costs, we see more costs to play. Great.
NOTE: Cable packages are a good idea of why MTs. You may want the SPORTS package that is offered but, it's bundled with the ARTs program. You pay more to get an item you want at the expense of paying for one you don't. Other MAY want the ARTs package but they too get the SPORTS package. MTs allowed unbundled product which MORE people will prefer.
This sounds more like varied subscription rates rather than a MT cash shop.
Edit: What happened to your box purchase and your subscription purchase being all-inclusive?
I'd love to find the article for you, but I'm positive I read that Atari acquired Cryptic because they had the right tools to cut development costs substantially. To what benefit to the consumer?
"I am impressed with the tools and technology that Cryptic has developed to make MMOs less expensive to build. Creating vast worlds and interesting interactions can be very people intensive but with the use of Cryptic's toolset they have a proven way of cutting average production costs in half. This is exactly the type of company we wanted to acquire in order to build Atari for the 21st century."
So with lesser production costs, we see more costs to play. Great.
Most products will have to stand on there own. Being able to keep the base price the same, IS due to reducing costs as the value of the dollar is decreasing. Therby allowing those that cannot afford everything the chance to still be able to play.
Back to the cable analogy: Pay-Per-View -- even if you get the all inclusive, they still have additional item that can be purchased for a fee.
Originally posted by AJ2ME in addition, if it goes well there WILL be more games following this model for future and current games.
This model already appears not to have gone well for other games.
SOE recently laid off 5% of their staff, hot on the heels of the release of a game that has microtransactions. They've also not too long ago dropped shopping malls into some of their other titles.
And this 5% layoff occurred in a market showing strong growth - the subscription mmo market grew showed 27% growth outside of WOW in 2008.
Yes there is something decidedly wrong with companies trying to make more money than their product or service warrants. Greed is not okay. These games already make a mint as it is. Millions of dollars a month even with as little as 100K subscribers and that's on top of box sales. Companies thinking they deserve excessive profit is the reason why we are in a depression and I find it disturbing that many consumers actually embrace these greedy tactics.
So..your telling me that more than $15.00 a month is excess? I'm sorry but MMO's have been around for about 10 years now, based on that, and an annual cost of llving rise about 4%, you would get about 22bucks a month sub cost if it keep the same trend. So with company cost dwindling due to that cost of living, and no company willing to raise to 20 a month, MT is the only way for them to increase their income.
You then mention box sales..so you think Cryptic gets 50bucks each copy they sell? Oh..you forgot, Atari is the publisher. They make their cut. Then regional distrubitors make their cut. Then finally the outlet that sells it makes their cut. So Cryptic Makes what? 15bucks maybe. Bet you think that $15 a month is always that. Time card purchases probably net the company about half of that if that. I was buying Age of Conan TC for $18 with shipping for 60days. So I bet Funcom made a crapload of me, about 5dollars a month.
The only industry that is probably remotely worth supporting(the gaming industry) yeah, they are staying a head of the companies, why? Because they half a universal model. Heck, game sells for PC I think haven't went up in about 15 years, I can't remember what my dad bought Duke nukem for, last I can recall is buying Diablo II for 50, so that is at least 9. Where as new consoles all went up to $60. So yeah, the cost to make an MMO has drastically risen from a couple million to tens of millions. But hey, they aren't anything but greedy bastards to ignorant people. Just like a movie theatre makes 10bucks off you..even though about half of that goes directly into the studio's pockets.
If your in an economic depression, thats your own fault. Sure spending is down, but that doesn't affect me in anyway, shape, or form. I'm not a person that goes buy the newest fashion clothes or ever will.
Yes there is something decidedly wrong with companies trying to make more money than their product or service warrants. Greed is not okay. These games already make a mint as it is. Millions of dollars a month even with as little as 100K subscribers and that's on top of box sales. Companies thinking they deserve excessive profit is the reason why we are in a depression and I find it disturbing that many consumers actually embrace these greedy tactics.
So..your telling me that more than $15.00 a month is excess? I'm sorry but MMO's have been around for about 10 years now, based on that, and an annual cost of llving rise about 4%, you would get about 22bucks a month sub cost if it keep the same trend.
Then raise the sub price. If your game is good enough people will pay to play it.
There is no excuse in what you are saying for the pathetic model of Pay to Achieve gaming.
Yes there is something decidedly wrong with companies trying to make more money than their product or service warrants. Greed is not okay. These games already make a mint as it is. Millions of dollars a month even with as little as 100K subscribers and that's on top of box sales. Companies thinking they deserve excessive profit is the reason why we are in a depression and I find it disturbing that many consumers actually embrace these greedy tactics.
So..your telling me that more than $15.00 a month is excess? I'm sorry but MMO's have been around for about 10 years now, based on that, and an annual cost of llving rise about 4%, you would get about 22bucks a month sub cost if it keep the same trend.
Then raise the sub price. If your game is good enough people will pay to play it.
There is no excuse in what you are saying for the pathetic model of Pay to Achieve gaming.
Clearly you've never heard of the phrase "sticker-shock".
Guess we will have to wait and see. If CO does well, prepare for it in every game. Seriously tho, did you expect only gold farmers to make money off of an MMO.
If you want to blame anyone on this or if you want to complain. First go to the gold farmers and bitch at them.
Oh, wait... They say they are just providing a service for those who are looking for a way around the grind. Oh, OK.
Now go find those people who are buying what the gold farmers are selling. They are the TRUE reason companies are doing this. The companies are tired of draining resources to combat this and they found something in their product that people are willing to pay for so, they are providing that to the PAYING public.
The only difference between RMT and buying Ebay accounts or Gold Farmers is at least the money is going BACK INTO the GAME you are wanting to play!!!
Get off your high horse, do not pay if you do not want to. Play the game or not play the game. IMO, the rule has always been. "Follow the money and you will find the culprit."
We followed that above and we got to the Gaming industry tired of spending money on litigation and legal types to keep people from selling stuff out of their game. Since that did not work they decided if players will pay for it, lets offer it to the paying public. At least then we can put the money into the game ( or at least show a profit and make it appealing to investors ).
So, who is complaining and why? Who stands to lose the most from this type of billing system?
The player? They do not have to buy items. They can get them in game if they are game changing.
The company? Do you think they would really want to harrass their customers with a billing system that people would not use or felt was cheating?
Hrmm, that leaves the Gold Farmers who will lose money by not being able to sell things on ebay or through other means. They are the ones who stand to lose the most from this type of system. Still, if the market does not support this, it will go the way of the pay as you play model.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
I have a sneaking suspicion that there are some corporate bonuses on the line here. That said, the cat will be out of the bag on CO Monday when the Open Beta starts. Then those who are okay with Cryptic's revenue model will be able to see for themselves whether this game is worth what Cryptic is hoping you'll pay for it. Of course, there will be those devoted disciples who will scream until release day that "It's Beta!" Bunk! What you see in the Open beta will be what you'll be buying. Good luck and godspeed.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I have a sneaking suspicion that there are some corporate bonuses on the line here.
It's no mere suspicion.
There's a $48 million dollar bonus attached to the sale of Cryptic to Infogrames (who gave it to Atari) based on performance of Champions Online and Star Trek Online by 2011.
I have a sneaking suspicion that there are some corporate bonuses on the line here. That said, the cat will be out of the bag on CO Monday when the Open Beta starts. Then those who are okay with Cryptic's revenue model will be able to see for themselves whether this game is worth what Cryptic is hoping you'll pay for it. Of course, there will be those devoted disciples who will scream until release day that "It's Beta!" Bunk! What you see in the Open beta will be what you'll be buying. Good luck and godspeed.
For some of us with a little common sense and experience, Monday won't be nessescary. I felt bad for Mr. Roper and his Flagship debacle. I no longer feel so bad. I see the mstakes of his past resurfacing within what I considered a very promising developer. The item mall and other mts are already developed as part of the game which is a cost they must recoup. There's no turning back. The fact that they plan to polute the Star Trek license with this nonsense is even worse. Lifetime offer before NDA lift and not after? Lifetime offer on an MT game? Subs on an MT game? Do we have a confidence issue here?
I just struggle with the idea of mts. I get paying a sub for entertainment, like cable, netflix, mmos, etc... But real money for the posession of pixelated items that don't actually exist? That aren't really in my posession but are the sole property of Cryptic? Tell me I'm not crazy. This sounds flat out retarded. Not to mention that cosmetic or no, these items will become old and lame when an expansion hits. You will just buy more crap and pay a sub, and pay for the xpac. What's next? Is a GM going to charge me buy the minute for assistance? Maybe that will just be for quest help. Oh i know, the next big evolution in this genre is the developer powerleveling your character for a fee. Why do we even play these games if we feel the need to not play them and yet have it appear that we do?
I have a sneaking suspicion that there are some corporate bonuses on the line here. That said, the cat will be out of the bag on CO Monday when the Open Beta starts. Then those who are okay with Cryptic's revenue model will be able to see for themselves whether this game is worth what Cryptic is hoping you'll pay for it. Of course, there will be those devoted disciples who will scream until release day that "It's Beta!" Bunk! What you see in the Open beta will be what you'll be buying. Good luck and godspeed.
Not really. I've been in CB for about 2 weeks and in those 2 weeks we've had around 3gb of patches (the client itself is only 3gb) that have somewhat radically altered the game.
I have a sneaking suspicion that there are some corporate bonuses on the line here. That said, the cat will be out of the bag on CO Monday when the Open Beta starts. Then those who are okay with Cryptic's revenue model will be able to see for themselves whether this game is worth what Cryptic is hoping you'll pay for it. Of course, there will be those devoted disciples who will scream until release day that "It's Beta!" Bunk! What you see in the Open beta will be what you'll be buying. Good luck and godspeed.
Not really. I've been in CB for about 2 weeks and in those 2 weeks we've had around 3gb of patches (the client itself is only 3gb) that have somewhat radically altered the game.
So ya...it's BETA.
So much for NDAs.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I have a sneaking suspicion that there are some corporate bonuses on the line here.
It's no mere suspicion.
There's a $48 million dollar bonus attached to the sale of Cryptic to Infogrames (who gave it to Atari) based on performance of Champions Online and Star Trek Online by 2011.
Infogrames = Atari. They just bought Atari and used the name. The company is not the same Atari that existed before. Just the same name. So if you say Infogrames gave it to Atari, youre really just saying Infogrames gave it to Infogrames. which doesnt make much sense. Also where are you getting this info? Link?
Yes there is something decidedly wrong with companies trying to make more money than their product or service warrants. Greed is not okay. These games already make a mint as it is. Millions of dollars a month even with as little as 100K subscribers and that's on top of box sales. Companies thinking they deserve excessive profit is the reason why we are in a depression and I find it disturbing that many consumers actually embrace these greedy tactics.
So..your telling me that more than $15.00 a month is excess? I'm sorry but MMO's have been around for about 10 years now, based on that, and an annual cost of llving rise about 4%, you would get about 22bucks a month sub cost if it keep the same trend.
Then raise the sub price. If your game is good enough people will pay to play it.
There is no excuse in what you are saying for the pathetic model of Pay to Achieve gaming.
Let me ask you this spanky.
Do you / have you played WoW for any extended period of time?
Then you've played a game with microtransactions.
Character transfers, account splits, name changes, faction changes, etc etc. are all simple, and automated procedures that Blizzard charges out of the ass for. They've made millions, yes millions, from these simple microtransactions that are completely VOLUNTARY and UNNECESSARY to playing the game. They also give players no innate advantage.
Get over yourself and your holier-than-thou attitude.
This is not a pay to achieve game. This is a pay to buy useless cosmetic shit you can get easily through gameplay anyway.
I have a sneaking suspicion that there are some corporate bonuses on the line here.
It's no mere suspicion.
There's a $48 million dollar bonus attached to the sale of Cryptic to Infogrames (who gave it to Atari) based on performance of Champions Online and Star Trek Online by 2011.
Infogrames = Atari. They just bought Atari and used the name. The company is not the same Atari that existed before. Just the same name. So if you say Infogrames gave it to Atari, youre really just saying Infogrames gave it to Infogrames. which doesnt make much sense. Also where are you getting this info? Link?
I'm aware of the current structure - Infogrames this year essentially swallowed Atari whole and took on the Atari name. But there was a time when they owned Atari and were still separate entities. During that time, they did the above.
The information is taken directly from the Infogrames media release, and was reported on a number of gaming news sites. Many other sites incorrectly reported that Atari purchased Cryptic, but that's not what happened.
The $48 million isn't wholly a straight bonus - there's a $20 million bonus and another $28 million in an earn-out mechanism. The earn-out amounts to a bonus but strictly speaking it's a variable component of the sale price which is tied to future performance of the entity being purchased.
I had a lot of fun in CoX and couldn't wait for this game to come out. But like one of the above posters said, I'll not touch this game or any game with microtransactions. This is the company's way of warming up their customer base with it. Before you know it you WILL be able to pay for higher lvl characters, money, items, etc.
So sad.
"Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% of how you react to it."
Here is my thought on the situation at hand: Think of playing a mmorpg as owning a car. Some people will buy a car and be happy with what they bought. Others will buy the car and make a hobby out of it. Every now and again they will spend money to apply better performance parts or to make the car look nicer. The people who don't mod/alter their cars will look at that person as having a strong hobby.
Playing mmorpgs can be a normal every day event. It can either become a hobby or a less serious form of entertainment. If one chooses to make playing mmorpgs a strong hobby, then they will use the microtransactions. Throwing money here and there into a game is just like putting money into a car. The "hobbyists" will alter their characters to their liking with added costume pieces ect. and others will be satisfied with a stock character.
People need to choose between playing a game and making the game a hobby. Also, people need to lay off those of us who choose to make it a hobby. Its their money, not yours, so why does everyone have to complain?
That analogy doesn't work because it's a hobby for both the regular subscriber and the subscriber that pays for MTs. Both want to see their cars (characters) evolve and improve, and both put time and effort into them (and both put money into them as well, one just has a limit where the other does not).
If it were purely cosmetic, there would be less of a problem. To follow your analogy, people don't really care if someone else's car looks cooler. They would care however if a neighbor's car could jump the fence and blow up their car with impunity simply because of some mod the "hobbyist" bought.
Remember, these characters aren't just standing next to eachother in the game. They are competing.
As for me, I'll probably still try the game despite being against MTs in general, and especially when combined with a subscription fee, although combining this news with the fact that it's all instanced makes me think twice. Unfortunately, there's no other game out or coming out soon that seems appealing (I tried the Aion beta and was sorely dissapointed).
I'll be trying out the beta next week but I'm very skeptical as to if I'll actually pay for the box come release day.
Comments
Because there's always going to be someone maybe several that want to feel extra special want to have a slightly different hat or emblem so nwo they can and not everyone will have it so *shrug*. They're the same type of people that buy the Wow card packs for the cool looking Mount that runs at standard mount speed. Or the same people that bought the extra costume packs from City of Heroes. It just gives you a few more choices then the hundreds already presented.
I dont think anyone will be hurting for a look because of the cash shop (just my 2 cents considering everything the devs are saying & hyping) considering the articles coming out on character customization. You should check out Massively's blog series on Create My Champion where people give him suggestions / ideas and he makes them in game.
They said the game isn't based on the cash shop so...unless they're lying I think most reasonable players will be safe from the fear of the Mall.
cant help but seeing alot of similarities between MT and all those dudes selling gold and powerleveling and whatnot. All of the crap associated with MT is already in the games today tnx to goldsellers and their ilk. You want a supermegarare 2h sword thats cost 1000g on ah, what do you do? buy 1000g online froma goldseller and proceed to buy the damn sword. The difference is now the cash goes to the developer( whitch is good) the bad thing is " ITS WRONG!!!!! " game developer has been hunting goldsellers for years and now all of a sudden its ok to use shortcuts as long as the developer get his piece of the action. I think they have realised that there is a lot of lazy players outthere that is willing to pay real life cash for ingame shortcuts. From that point of view its god business to give the player what they obviously are willing to pay for.
I for one hate all goldsellers and think they should be stung up in the nearest tree, but i hate the goldbuyers even more , they are the once to blame for the whole MT crapload we see in more and more games.
Its a game where you compete against yourself and against others, this whole MT crap makes all competion suspect and almost pointless and whats left of the game then, just a goodlooking shell?
But still i will probably give the game a try, and hope that the stuff you can get bye MT is just fluff and that the ingame community clearly show that item bought bye MT are not welcome.
There are stuff we as a community can do to cunteract MT, we can refuse people that use MT in our guilds and raids/group (if we know that they use it).
Lets not forget that they cant force us to buy stuff in MT.
In my book using MT to buy stuff that gives you an edge, thats cheating plain and simple, no matter that the dev says its ok.
My suggestion to all those out there who think that's bad. Wait till after the release of the game and see if your right. Now for those that say, well that "supermega gear" stuff isn't in yet, well it probably won't be.
WHY?
Because people like those that are complaining about MT will "kill them" on the forums over it. Stsr TREK online will die before it's released, just because of this.
I have complained many a time about things in game like this and have found out that my fears were unfounded (except for the hosing Coercers got in EQ2 ).
in addition, if it goes well there WILL be more games following this model for future and current games.
I think this is the problem for most of us. Why would we pay 50 or 60 dollars for a game (the developed content) and also pay 15 dollars a month not to have access to everything we could in the game. It's just them trying to squeeze more money out of the consumer when they make more than enough from their subscribers. They're taking the finest point from CoX, the customization and exploiting it for money.
With the lifetime subs it seems like they don't want us to try the game out first since it's offered up until the day before launch.
Smells like money-grubbing failure imo.
"I think this is a quite obvious attempt at cashing in on a playertype that , supposedly, is becoming more and more the norm: The adult casual working person, who nonetheless has major issues with accepting that his limited playtime, in combination with RL responsibilities or just plain disinterest, is keeping him from competing in the top tier."
Erm, that's me but I pay to play so if they're aiming at me they're missing the point. I think it is simpler than that. rather than stop gold-farmers they've decided to compete with them and fix the playing field so they win. It also means that players like me get frakked over by the game-makers rather than somebody who has bought from gold farmers. Actually this does hack me off. i report farmers and those involved, now i have to bend over and take it because it's game design? I've bought and got hacked off with a lot of the new games for not living up to the hype etc but I keep trying because there was a deal.
You build it and I'll buy and try it but maybe whine if you do not keep your promises.
I figured if they did what they said they got subs but if not they still got a purchase so a partial pay-off for trying. Not this game though as they've broken the deal. Why pay when being bent over is official game policy? Didn't anybody learn from the fiasco that was Hellgate: London?
I think this is the problem for most of us. Why would we pay 50 or 60 dollars for a game (the developed content) and also pay 15 dollars a month not to have access to everything we could in the game. It's just them trying to squeeze more money out of the consumer when they make more than enough from their subscribers. They're taking the finest point from CoX, the customization and exploiting it for money.
With the lifetime subs it seems like they don't want us to try the game out first since it's offered up until the day before launch.
Smells like money-grubbing failure imo.
Spend $5.00 get into OPEN beta before release, therefore you get to try it out before you buy.
Why start adding other sources of revenue on to a product? First, keeps prices down across the board. Instead of raising purchase price or monthly fees($50.00 goes to $75.00 -- monthly goes from $15.00 to $20.00). Think of "Do you want fries with that meal?"
MT will allow more personalization of gaming product.
NOTE: Cable packages are a good idea of why MTs. You may want the SPORTS package that is offered but, it's bundled with the ARTs program. You pay more to get an item you want at the expense of paying for one you don't. Other MAY want the ARTs package but they too get the SPORTS package. MTs allowed unbundled product which MORE people will prefer.
This sounds more like varied subscription rates rather than a MT cash shop.
Edit: What happened to your box purchase and your subscription purchase being all-inclusive?
I'd love to find the article for you, but I'm positive I read that Atari acquired Cryptic because they had the right tools to cut development costs substantially. To what benefit to the consumer?
Super Edit: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/atari-acquires-cryptic-studios
"I am impressed with the tools and technology that Cryptic has developed to make MMOs less expensive to build. Creating vast worlds and interesting interactions can be very people intensive but with the use of Cryptic's toolset they have a proven way of cutting average production costs in half. This is exactly the type of company we wanted to acquire in order to build Atari for the 21st century."
So with lesser production costs, we see more costs to play. Great.
This sounds more like varied subscription rates rather than a MT cash shop.
Edit: What happened to your box purchase and your subscription purchase being all-inclusive?
I'd love to find the article for you, but I'm positive I read that Atari acquired Cryptic because they had the right tools to cut development costs substantially. To what benefit to the consumer?
Super Edit: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/atari-acquires-cryptic-studios
"I am impressed with the tools and technology that Cryptic has developed to make MMOs less expensive to build. Creating vast worlds and interesting interactions can be very people intensive but with the use of Cryptic's toolset they have a proven way of cutting average production costs in half. This is exactly the type of company we wanted to acquire in order to build Atari for the 21st century."
So with lesser production costs, we see more costs to play. Great.
Most products will have to stand on there own. Being able to keep the base price the same, IS due to reducing costs as the value of the dollar is decreasing. Therby allowing those that cannot afford everything the chance to still be able to play.
Back to the cable analogy: Pay-Per-View -- even if you get the all inclusive, they still have additional item that can be purchased for a fee.
I don't think the dollar is at half of the value that it is now, and I also don't believe that MMO devs were just barely making it by.
This model already appears not to have gone well for other games.
SOE recently laid off 5% of their staff, hot on the heels of the release of a game that has microtransactions. They've also not too long ago dropped shopping malls into some of their other titles.
And this 5% layoff occurred in a market showing strong growth - the subscription mmo market grew showed 27% growth outside of WOW in 2008.
So..your telling me that more than $15.00 a month is excess? I'm sorry but MMO's have been around for about 10 years now, based on that, and an annual cost of llving rise about 4%, you would get about 22bucks a month sub cost if it keep the same trend. So with company cost dwindling due to that cost of living, and no company willing to raise to 20 a month, MT is the only way for them to increase their income.
You then mention box sales..so you think Cryptic gets 50bucks each copy they sell? Oh..you forgot, Atari is the publisher. They make their cut. Then regional distrubitors make their cut. Then finally the outlet that sells it makes their cut. So Cryptic Makes what? 15bucks maybe. Bet you think that $15 a month is always that. Time card purchases probably net the company about half of that if that. I was buying Age of Conan TC for $18 with shipping for 60days. So I bet Funcom made a crapload of me, about 5dollars a month.
The only industry that is probably remotely worth supporting(the gaming industry) yeah, they are staying a head of the companies, why? Because they half a universal model. Heck, game sells for PC I think haven't went up in about 15 years, I can't remember what my dad bought Duke nukem for, last I can recall is buying Diablo II for 50, so that is at least 9. Where as new consoles all went up to $60. So yeah, the cost to make an MMO has drastically risen from a couple million to tens of millions. But hey, they aren't anything but greedy bastards to ignorant people. Just like a movie theatre makes 10bucks off you..even though about half of that goes directly into the studio's pockets.
If your in an economic depression, thats your own fault. Sure spending is down, but that doesn't affect me in anyway, shape, or form. I'm not a person that goes buy the newest fashion clothes or ever will.
So..your telling me that more than $15.00 a month is excess? I'm sorry but MMO's have been around for about 10 years now, based on that, and an annual cost of llving rise about 4%, you would get about 22bucks a month sub cost if it keep the same trend.
Then raise the sub price. If your game is good enough people will pay to play it.
There is no excuse in what you are saying for the pathetic model of Pay to Achieve gaming.
So..your telling me that more than $15.00 a month is excess? I'm sorry but MMO's have been around for about 10 years now, based on that, and an annual cost of llving rise about 4%, you would get about 22bucks a month sub cost if it keep the same trend.
Then raise the sub price. If your game is good enough people will pay to play it.
There is no excuse in what you are saying for the pathetic model of Pay to Achieve gaming.
Clearly you've never heard of the phrase "sticker-shock".
Wow, 37 pages of RMT suxx.
Guess we will have to wait and see. If CO does well, prepare for it in every game. Seriously tho, did you expect only gold farmers to make money off of an MMO.
If you want to blame anyone on this or if you want to complain. First go to the gold farmers and bitch at them.
Oh, wait... They say they are just providing a service for those who are looking for a way around the grind. Oh, OK.
Now go find those people who are buying what the gold farmers are selling. They are the TRUE reason companies are doing this. The companies are tired of draining resources to combat this and they found something in their product that people are willing to pay for so, they are providing that to the PAYING public.
The only difference between RMT and buying Ebay accounts or Gold Farmers is at least the money is going BACK INTO the GAME you are wanting to play!!!
Get off your high horse, do not pay if you do not want to. Play the game or not play the game. IMO, the rule has always been. "Follow the money and you will find the culprit."
We followed that above and we got to the Gaming industry tired of spending money on litigation and legal types to keep people from selling stuff out of their game. Since that did not work they decided if players will pay for it, lets offer it to the paying public. At least then we can put the money into the game ( or at least show a profit and make it appealing to investors ).
So, who is complaining and why? Who stands to lose the most from this type of billing system?
The player? They do not have to buy items. They can get them in game if they are game changing.
The company? Do you think they would really want to harrass their customers with a billing system that people would not use or felt was cheating?
Hrmm, that leaves the Gold Farmers who will lose money by not being able to sell things on ebay or through other means. They are the ones who stand to lose the most from this type of system. Still, if the market does not support this, it will go the way of the pay as you play model.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
I have a sneaking suspicion that there are some corporate bonuses on the line here. That said, the cat will be out of the bag on CO Monday when the Open Beta starts. Then those who are okay with Cryptic's revenue model will be able to see for themselves whether this game is worth what Cryptic is hoping you'll pay for it. Of course, there will be those devoted disciples who will scream until release day that "It's Beta!" Bunk! What you see in the Open beta will be what you'll be buying. Good luck and godspeed.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
It's no mere suspicion.
There's a $48 million dollar bonus attached to the sale of Cryptic to Infogrames (who gave it to Atari) based on performance of Champions Online and Star Trek Online by 2011.
For some of us with a little common sense and experience, Monday won't be nessescary. I felt bad for Mr. Roper and his Flagship debacle. I no longer feel so bad. I see the mstakes of his past resurfacing within what I considered a very promising developer. The item mall and other mts are already developed as part of the game which is a cost they must recoup. There's no turning back. The fact that they plan to polute the Star Trek license with this nonsense is even worse. Lifetime offer before NDA lift and not after? Lifetime offer on an MT game? Subs on an MT game? Do we have a confidence issue here?
I just struggle with the idea of mts. I get paying a sub for entertainment, like cable, netflix, mmos, etc... But real money for the posession of pixelated items that don't actually exist? That aren't really in my posession but are the sole property of Cryptic? Tell me I'm not crazy. This sounds flat out retarded. Not to mention that cosmetic or no, these items will become old and lame when an expansion hits. You will just buy more crap and pay a sub, and pay for the xpac. What's next? Is a GM going to charge me buy the minute for assistance? Maybe that will just be for quest help. Oh i know, the next big evolution in this genre is the developer powerleveling your character for a fee. Why do we even play these games if we feel the need to not play them and yet have it appear that we do?
Not really. I've been in CB for about 2 weeks and in those 2 weeks we've had around 3gb of patches (the client itself is only 3gb) that have somewhat radically altered the game.
So ya...it's BETA.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Not really. I've been in CB for about 2 weeks and in those 2 weeks we've had around 3gb of patches (the client itself is only 3gb) that have somewhat radically altered the game.
So ya...it's BETA.
So much for NDAs.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
It's no mere suspicion.
There's a $48 million dollar bonus attached to the sale of Cryptic to Infogrames (who gave it to Atari) based on performance of Champions Online and Star Trek Online by 2011.
Infogrames = Atari. They just bought Atari and used the name. The company is not the same Atari that existed before. Just the same name. So if you say Infogrames gave it to Atari, youre really just saying Infogrames gave it to Infogrames. which doesnt make much sense. Also where are you getting this info? Link?
So..your telling me that more than $15.00 a month is excess? I'm sorry but MMO's have been around for about 10 years now, based on that, and an annual cost of llving rise about 4%, you would get about 22bucks a month sub cost if it keep the same trend.
Then raise the sub price. If your game is good enough people will pay to play it.
There is no excuse in what you are saying for the pathetic model of Pay to Achieve gaming.
Let me ask you this spanky.
Do you / have you played WoW for any extended period of time?
Then you've played a game with microtransactions.
Character transfers, account splits, name changes, faction changes, etc etc. are all simple, and automated procedures that Blizzard charges out of the ass for. They've made millions, yes millions, from these simple microtransactions that are completely VOLUNTARY and UNNECESSARY to playing the game. They also give players no innate advantage.
Get over yourself and your holier-than-thou attitude.
This is not a pay to achieve game. This is a pay to buy useless cosmetic shit you can get easily through gameplay anyway.
Hmm, here's another that can't tell between account services and ingame RMT item mall.
It's no mere suspicion.
There's a $48 million dollar bonus attached to the sale of Cryptic to Infogrames (who gave it to Atari) based on performance of Champions Online and Star Trek Online by 2011.
Infogrames = Atari. They just bought Atari and used the name. The company is not the same Atari that existed before. Just the same name. So if you say Infogrames gave it to Atari, youre really just saying Infogrames gave it to Infogrames. which doesnt make much sense. Also where are you getting this info? Link?
I'm aware of the current structure - Infogrames this year essentially swallowed Atari whole and took on the Atari name. But there was a time when they owned Atari and were still separate entities. During that time, they did the above.
The information is taken directly from the Infogrames media release, and was reported on a number of gaming news sites. Many other sites incorrectly reported that Atari purchased Cryptic, but that's not what happened.
The $48 million isn't wholly a straight bonus - there's a $20 million bonus and another $28 million in an earn-out mechanism. The earn-out amounts to a bonus but strictly speaking it's a variable component of the sale price which is tied to future performance of the entity being purchased.
I had a lot of fun in CoX and couldn't wait for this game to come out. But like one of the above posters said, I'll not touch this game or any game with microtransactions. This is the company's way of warming up their customer base with it. Before you know it you WILL be able to pay for higher lvl characters, money, items, etc.
So sad.
"Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% of how you react to it."
That analogy doesn't work because it's a hobby for both the regular subscriber and the subscriber that pays for MTs. Both want to see their cars (characters) evolve and improve, and both put time and effort into them (and both put money into them as well, one just has a limit where the other does not).
If it were purely cosmetic, there would be less of a problem. To follow your analogy, people don't really care if someone else's car looks cooler. They would care however if a neighbor's car could jump the fence and blow up their car with impunity simply because of some mod the "hobbyist" bought.
Remember, these characters aren't just standing next to eachother in the game. They are competing.
As for me, I'll probably still try the game despite being against MTs in general, and especially when combined with a subscription fee, although combining this news with the fact that it's all instanced makes me think twice. Unfortunately, there's no other game out or coming out soon that seems appealing (I tried the Aion beta and was sorely dissapointed).
I'll be trying out the beta next week but I'm very skeptical as to if I'll actually pay for the box come release day.