I don't "hate" TOR, I just don't think it is going in the right direction. I've felt for a while now that MMORPG's are becoming more and more restricting, when they should be doing the opposite. The genre needs more freedom in the games, not more restrictions and funneling. But TOR, with all of the talk about story and what not, seems to be magnifying an already large problem. I've never felt that MMORPG's needed more story, I should be making my own story. I think story is best suited for single player games, not MMORPG's. But Bioware and LA are marketting story as the "missing pillar" in MMOs, and some epic innovation and revolution of the genre.
Having already seen such a great skill system in SWG, seeing contrived, overly restrictive classes seems like a giant step backwards for a Star Wars MMO. Also, the game seems much more like a single player game with a monthly fee than it does an MMO, as they really haven't shown any of the "mmo" in any of the previews yet.
It also pains me that it's a Star Wars mmo being designed this way. I love Star Wars and I know that this will be the last Star Wars mmo for a long time, so I would prefer it to be more to my tastes.
All of that being said, those feelings are in a general sense. I judge each game individually, and while I prefer what was stated above, I good game will beat out what I prefer any day.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I think it would be unwise to assume that Bioware would neglect the "MMO" parts of The Old Republic just because they are not focusing on discussing it for the time being.
Every interview I've read or seen more or less came off as: "Yeah, we got all the MMO stuff in here...but THIS is what we can show you right now! /voice over work" I do not personally believe the game will be on "rails" so to speak. I imagine you can do whatever you want. Then hop on the train for some story adventure time if you like. I figure all the "story stuff" is just a part of quest lines. That you may choose to take part of, or not.
Game mechanics take a while to iron our my friends. We will see them soon, I assure you. I imagine we all hope they live up to our expectations.
I really....REALLY hope that you are right. And if this ends up being the case....if TOR ends up being the game that lets us have our cake and eat it too, then I will publicly apologise on this board and the official SWTOR forum for my pessimism.
I don't feel there is any reason to apologize for anything. Pessimism comes with excitement. We have all been disappointed by the various MMO's that have been coming out. Nothing has really captivated the community past launch in....well, as long as I can remember. If any of you are like myself, you've been waiting for something, nay anything, to come along and capture your attention like your old MMO of choice.
The abundance of uninformed speculation, predictions of doom and gloom, and beacons of hope discussed and presented here show just how much we all want something new.
Of course people are going to be skeptical. Bioware is boasting about a part of their game that not many other MMO's focus on all that much. I imagine most others are going "Oh wow, that is pretty cool. But what about raids, dungeons, PVP, crafting, endgame?" They have only made minor comments addressing the "MMO part" of their game. I am sure they know that we are dying to see what the gameplay holds in store. Each new video shows a bit more.
We are hungry for information. Just like a marketing department would hope for.
I don't want to be FORCED to be a "hero"....I don't want to be forced into a pre-designed "iconic" role
Then don't play the game.
I won't.
The game is set during the era of a massive war between the Republic and the Sith, and who do you expect to be?
The guy who sits on the sidelines and serves out cold Kool-Aid when both sides call a time-out?
Why not?
You don't have to be a hero, play Sith and you can be the conquering douchebag who kicks baby kittens and steals walking canes from the senior citizens of the Republic. I think the whole "It's on rails" argument is overblown. The cover systems shows you all the possible cover spots you have, it doesn't force you to go from one specific spot to the next. Did you expect to be able to take cover behind a space daisy or some Kath Hound turd?
Which means there's VERY little real-estate in the game, otherwise they'd need an entire team of people JUST to put a little icon in all the possible PRE DEFINED (which is the KEY here) cover spots in the game.
The story arcs are pre-defined. The cover spots for smugs are pre-defined. EVERYTHING is pre-defined so that the "story" isn't "broken" by a player going along an un-expected route (as explained in one of the very first DEV interviews).
The choices are an illusion. And how long do you think it will be before a web site pops up with all the story brances mapped out so that a given class can just jam down the shortest path, in what will basically amount to a different kind of grind??
You people are naive.
You obviously don't know how object oriented programming works. All you have to do is make a general top class for the structures and objects you can hide behind. When it comes time to using the engine to place these objects on the maps, they come with the ability built in for a smuggler to hide behind. They are not going to go to every single individual spot and place these "hiding spots" by hand. That would be a terrible waste of time. All of these "Facts" you are spewing out are all based on heresay and conjecture. Why don't we wait until more details come out? You guys all seem to be taking the little tidbits they release and running the complete opposite way with them. You have no idea what this game will be like and neither do I, but give BioWare the benefit of the doubt. They know what they're doing and have the resume to prove it.
You obviously don't know how object oriented programming works. All you have to do is make a general top class for the structures and objects you can hide behind. When it comes time to using the engine to place these objects on the maps, they come with the ability built in for a smuggler to hide behind. They are not going to go to every single individual spot and place these "hiding spots" by hand. And you ooooobviously have no idea what Bioware's coding looks like. Top class aside, they still have to create specific objects that can and cannot be used by the Smuggler for cover. It's astronimically ludicrous of you to assume that every object in the game, in any zone, can be used for cover. The class will be limited by objects specific allowed for their use, making it *gasp* rail-like. Period. You have no idea what this game will be like and neither do I, but give BioWare the benefit of the doubt. They know what they're doing and have the resume to prove it. They have the resume? They've pushed out an mmo before? Give them the benefit of the doubt on a genre they've never dabbled in? Wow, dial down the fanboi just a bit please. They've made well received RPGs. Which, as any MMO gamer can tell you, are a COMPLETELY different beast than an MMO. Learn this, and accept it.
Every screen, video, or interview expounds about the one area Bioware has proven themselves on, Story. And yet COMPLETELY ignores the areas they're completely novice at: basically everything MMO. I'm sorry, but "yeah, we'll have all that mmo stuff too" doesnt qualify as talking about other aspects of the game. It even sounds borderline TASOS FLAMBOURAS.
So please, get over yourself, and stop lecturing us on coding and who we should and should not give the benefit of the doubt to. Thx.
I don't want to be FORCED to be a "hero"....I don't want to be forced into a pre-designed "iconic" role
Then don't play the game.
I won't.
The game is set during the era of a massive war between the Republic and the Sith, and who do you expect to be?
The guy who sits on the sidelines and serves out cold Kool-Aid when both sides call a time-out?
Why not?
You don't have to be a hero, play Sith and you can be the conquering douchebag who kicks baby kittens and steals walking canes from the senior citizens of the Republic. I think the whole "It's on rails" argument is overblown. The cover systems shows you all the possible cover spots you have, it doesn't force you to go from one specific spot to the next. Did you expect to be able to take cover behind a space daisy or some Kath Hound turd?
Which means there's VERY little real-estate in the game, otherwise they'd need an entire team of people JUST to put a little icon in all the possible PRE DEFINED (which is the KEY here) cover spots in the game.
The story arcs are pre-defined. The cover spots for smugs are pre-defined. EVERYTHING is pre-defined so that the "story" isn't "broken" by a player going along an un-expected route (as explained in one of the very first DEV interviews).
The choices are an illusion. And how long do you think it will be before a web site pops up with all the story brances mapped out so that a given class can just jam down the shortest path, in what will basically amount to a different kind of grind??
You people are naive.
I think the term you're looking for is, "The smugs' cover spots are HIGHLIGHTED when you choose them." You're using the phrase 'pre-defined' to imply that everything has been decided for you, and anyone who's played a Bioware game knows that really isn't the case.
As far as having story branches mapped out, that's going to be totally unnecessary. The way in which Bioware handles conversation dialog makes story branch posting useless some moron out there doesn't understand 'Kill Granny for more darkside' and that the 'shut up and get to the point' option skips five scenes of dialog. Oh, and spoilers, I guess, but that's really more personal preference.
As far as choice being an illusion, "xplained in one of the very first DEV interviews" that "EVERYTHING is pre-defined so that the "story" isn't "broken" by a player going along an un-expected route" then I'd like to see a link to that journal, because in several other releases they've explained that your choices are important and have an impact on the story and your allies, and one of the times they point this out is in the new video they released. You knew that though, because that video is premiering the smuggler cover system as well. By they way, if you go back and watch that video, you'll notice the outline only appears where he leaves cover and AFTER the smug toon starts approaching the cover he's going to use, so the icon is actually a placeholder to show what your position looks like and NOT a big green "ok to hide here" sign.
I think before you start saying people are naive, you should do a little more research into your side of the argument.
you're reaching, and grasping at straws...but that's ok. I don't really expect much more from the TOR fanbot brigade, and I'm not spending my valuable time trying to argue with you. I learned months ago that to dare to speak out about the holy grail of games is inviting a torrent of this kind of responses, which only leads to multiple pages of wasted time.
And I've wasted enough of my time on SWTOR.
I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not going to change the facts.
Edit:
"GFW: And what of player-created content? Player-built cities, player-run businesses, that sort of thing?
Rich Vogel: There'll definitely be an economy in our game, like WoW. But is our game going to be a simulation? No. Our game is an entertainment experience.
James Ohlen: If we're going to create immersive, epic stories that are believable, that really goes against having a simulation-type world. Those two things don't go together well.
Gordon Walton: And putting the onus on players to create all the fun is ... a challenge."
I don't understand how I was 'reaching', but you won't explain it because it was a vague insult and the best you can do. What I DO understand is that I was able to make my point without insulting anyone, and you pretty much act like you're superior because you've chosen to not play a game, and imply that the fans of SWTOR are some disorganized mass of naive morons.
As far as your example on SWTOR from the DEV interview, you've come tho THIS conclusion:
"EVERYTHING is pre-defined so that the "story" isn't "broken" by a player going along an un-expected route"
From this paragraph:
"GFW: And what of player-created content? Player-built cities, player-run businesses, that sort of thing?
Rich Vogel: There'll definitely be an economy in our game, like WoW. But is our game going to be a simulation? No. Our game is an entertainment experience.
James Ohlen: If we're going to create immersive, epic stories that are believable, that really goes against having a simulation-type world. Those two things don't go together well.
Gordon Walton: And putting the onus on players to create all the fun is ... a challenge."
You'll note that this quote also comes from the same interview:
Rich Vogel, co-studio director of product development: One thing we don't want to do is NPC Pez dispensers, as I call them -- go over there, dispense a quest, and then go "vacuum-clean" a zone. We want to make sure you listen to NPCs, because choices matter. And that's really important.
I don't know where you've gotten 'pre-defined story" from "No Player Cities". I guess I'm not the one 'grasping at straws'.
If you think THAT was insulting, then you are too thin-skinned to be on the MMORPG.com forums, there buddy. Trust me, if I were going to insult you, I would do it in a way that left no question to the fact that I just fucking insulted you.
And actually, I draw my concluseions from the fucking PILE of information and reasons given that TOR won't be a "sandbox" game. It's funny how when someone complains that there's no sandbox in TOR, you people can quickly pull out quotes and evidence as to WHY, but then it suits you can then claim thatr evidence doesn't exist.
And this is another reason why I consider arguing on the TOR forums to be an utter waste of time...it's like a retarded merry-go-round, going round and round and getting nowhere. I can point out facts, and you will claim they don't exist...until of course you need them to back your little argument.
So...have fun. I've got better shit to do.
First off, I didn't say that was I was insulted, I pointed out that you were using insults to help validate your claim. Honestly, you couldn't insult me if you tried if George Carlin were giving you pointers.
Secondly, you didn't complain about TOR not being a sandbox, you said it offers no freedom whatsoever, and I disagreed. I never claimed your facts didn't exist, I disagreed with them, but you're pointing out that the devs are saying one thing and then implying it means another. When someone disagrees, you say they're grasping at straws and reaching and you go on about the futility of arguing with the 'TOR fanbots'. If ANYONE is disregarding facts, it's you, and it makes you sound like a damn hypocrite.
As far as arguing on the TOR forums being a waste of time, and you having better shit to do, you obviously don't because there's more of your posts past this one I'm replying to.
I invite the forum readers to draw their own conclusions.
That's one place, I'm sure there are a 100 others.
Oh, cool, thanks. I'm wondering what kind of implications this is actually going to have on the final product. I know most games use engines created by other companies for this purpose, but I'm not sure what the HeroEngine can actually do, since the answer Bioware and the HeroEngine guys basically just said, "It's good!"
Basically you can design in real time with multiple users. Unlike the other engines where its design / save / load / play / repeat process until you get it right.
The engine is "suppose to" dramatically decrease development time.
Also, where did they say they're using this engine to build the game?
see, when you don't even know BASIC information about the game, how is it not a waste of my time to discuss it with you?? It's like clapping with one hand. Come back when you know what you're talking about.
Some people just get their jollies from trolling forums and others will always complain when every game does not cater to them. I have no ideal whether I will like the game or not but being Bioware it is always worth a shot.
It seems that over the last few months online there has been tons of rage over TOR, and the way the game is being designed; I.E. Story based not sandbox. My question to the community is why? Why are you dissapointed in the way the game is turning out. If you're a Star Wars Fan (the target audience) you'll be getting your favorite IP turned into an MMO; And not just any MMO one designed around story and intrigue with an engine that looks amazing and with characters that are fully voiced. If your a fan or RPGs, your getting a game designed by the single greatest company in the buisness (bioware) and are going to get the expirence of a life time. The only crowd that leaves are the WoW-esque MMO fans, who tend to like grind based gear gathering and repetitive instances (a niche already filled by WOW). And the SWG Vets (who are not, star wars fans in the strictest sense) who prefer well, SWG a games that already exists. So the question I post to all of the future SW:TOR community is "what could they do differently to please you?"
You shouldnt ask that question otherwise your going to get a wow clone. You should be asking: "Why are you here if what bioware is offering doesnt suit your gaming style?"
What I dont understand is why people cant be content with the way the devs are making the game. If what you see is not what you like in a game you should stop even looking at the game, and move on.
For me personally I am a hardcore grouper fan and it seems TOR will not please my gaming style thus I very rarely come here, and I have no plans to play this game even though I am a big SW fan. There is no need for me to sit in here trolling a game that I will not enjoy. If more people would do this then game boards could have real discussions instead of all the Hardcore vs casual or Solo vs Group bichering that goes on.
I do feel where your coming from because I am highly anticipating FFXIV and SE is known for hardcore PvE with forced grouping yet the casuals and solo'ers are there trying to change what SE does best. I am willing to bet that groupers are in here complaining which they shouldnt be. If they dont like it dont come here.
It seems most people cant be content when other people are getting a game they want which is really sad. I hope SW:ToR turns out to be a great game for you guys.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Also, where did they say they're using this engine to build the game?
see, when you don't even know BASIC information about the game, how is it not a waste of my time to discuss it with you?? It's like clapping with one hand. Come back when you know what you're talking about.
You know, you keep insisting it's a waste of time to come here and post, yet you keep doing it. I'd keep coming here to defend myself, but then I went back and read a few of your earlier posts from other threads, where you seem to have been a fan of SWG before the fall. So, if you're going to use stereotypes like 'TOR fanbot' to defend yourself, then I'm just going to say that you're a whiny little SWG fan who was expecting this game to be the old SWG but was sadly disappointed, and are therefore going to bash every TOR fan you find with your fucked up perspective on dev quotes that you call facts.
This is a waste of MY time. Don't even bother replying, cuz I wont be around to see it.
If you're a Star Wars Fan (the target audience) you'll be getting your favorite IP turned into an MMO; And not just any MMO one designed around story and intrigue with an engine that looks amazing and with characters that are fully voiced. So the question I post to all of the future SW:TOR community is "what could they do differently to please you?"
What I dont understand is why people cant be content with the way the devs are making the game. If what you see is not what you like in a game you should stop even looking at the game, and move on.
Actually, the fact that it's a Star Wars game is, I think, the problem.
Everyone has their own idea of what they want in a Star Wars MMORPG. Since it's not just some random MMO, it's THE SW MMO, people have strong opinions. When you tell people that they should just go away and forget about this game, you are telling them "Sorry, no Star Wars for you!", and that doesn't fly with the legion of SW fans who are waiting for their game....and who unfortunately all have their own idea on what that game must be.
You know, you keep insisting it's a waste of time to come here and post, yet you keep doing it. I'd keep coming here to defend myself, but then I went back and read a few of your earlier posts from other threads, where you seem to have been a fan of SWG before the fall. So, if you're going to use stereotypes like 'TOR fanbot' to defend yourself, then I'm just going to say that you're a whiny little SWG fan who was expecting this game to be the old SWG but was sadly disappointed, and are therefore going to bash every TOR fan you find with your fucked up perspective on dev quotes that you call facts. This is a waste of MY time. Don't even bother replying, cuz I wont be around to see it.
actually, what I said was that it was a waste of time to ARGUE WITH YOU. What I, and others are trying to do, is have a fucking conversation here. Stop trying to derail the thread by turning it into a flame war. That is what I'm trying to avoid...it wold be SO nice for once to be able to have a decent discussion on this forum without some FANBOT having to derail the thread by getting all defensive and screaming "ZOMG!!! SWG FANZOR!!!! ONOESSS!!!!"
Participating in a discussion on the TOPIC is not a waste of time...arguing with YOU is.
You know, you keep insisting it's a waste of time to come here and post, yet you keep doing it. I'd keep coming here to defend myself, but then I went back and read a few of your earlier posts from other threads, where you seem to have been a fan of SWG before the fall. So, if you're going to use stereotypes like 'TOR fanbot' to defend yourself, then I'm just going to say that you're a whiny little SWG fan who was expecting this game to be the old SWG but was sadly disappointed, and are therefore going to bash every TOR fan you find with your fucked up perspective on dev quotes that you call facts. This is a waste of MY time. Don't even bother replying, cuz I wont be around to see it.
actually, what I said was that it was a waste of time to ARGUE WITH YOU. What I, and others are trying to do, is have a fucking conversation here. Stop trying to derail the thread by turning it into a flame war. That is what I'm trying to avoid...it wold be SO nice for once to be able to have a decent discussion on this forum without some FANBOT having to derail the thread by getting all defensive and screaming "ZOMG!!! SWG FANZOR!!!! ONOESSS!!!!"
Participating in a discussion on the TOPIC is not a waste of time...arguing with YOU is.
You're right. Arguing on the internet is the least productive thing anyone can do. It's obvious that I misinterpreted some things you said, and reacted in a way that reflects poorly on myself. I apologize.
You know, you keep insisting it's a waste of time to come here and post, yet you keep doing it. I'd keep coming here to defend myself, but then I went back and read a few of your earlier posts from other threads, where you seem to have been a fan of SWG before the fall. So, if you're going to use stereotypes like 'TOR fanbot' to defend yourself, then I'm just going to say that you're a whiny little SWG fan who was expecting this game to be the old SWG but was sadly disappointed, and are therefore going to bash every TOR fan you find with your fucked up perspective on dev quotes that you call facts. This is a waste of MY time. Don't even bother replying, cuz I wont be around to see it.
actually, what I said was that it was a waste of time to ARGUE WITH YOU. What I, and others are trying to do, is have a fucking conversation here. Stop trying to derail the thread by turning it into a flame war. That is what I'm trying to avoid...it wold be SO nice for once to be able to have a decent discussion on this forum without some FANBOT having to derail the thread by getting all defensive and screaming "ZOMG!!! SWG FANZOR!!!! ONOESSS!!!!"
Participating in a discussion on the TOPIC is not a waste of time...arguing with YOU is.
You're right. Arguing on the internet is the least productive thing anyone can do. It's obvious that I misinterpreted some things you said, and reacted in a way that reflects poorly on myself. I apologize.
Apology accepted, and I'll go ahead and give one of my own. I'm not exactly the nicest guy around here....hehehe.
You shouldnt ask that question otherwise your going to get a wow clone. You should be asking: "Why are you here if what bioware is offering doesnt suit your gaming style?" What I dont understand is why people cant be content with the way the devs are making the game. If what you see is not what you like in a game you should stop even looking at the game, and move on. For me personally I am a hardcore grouper fan and it seems TOR will not please my gaming style thus I very rarely come here, and I have no plans to play this game even though I am a big SW fan. There is no need for me to sit in here trolling a game that I will not enjoy. If more people would do this then game boards could have real discussions instead of all the Hardcore vs casual or Solo vs Group bichering that goes on. I do feel where your coming from because I am highly anticipating FFXIV and SE is known for hardcore PvE with forced grouping yet the casuals and solo'ers are there trying to change what SE does best. I am willing to bet that groupers are in here complaining which they shouldnt be. If they dont like it dont come here. It seems most people cant be content when other people are getting a game they want which is really sad. I hope SW:ToR turns out to be a great game for you guys.
I sure wish others would follow your example. There are many MMOs I would never touch with a barge pole but I don't run into their forums and demand that their game gets changed to fit my preference. You're a class act.
I'm also curious to see what the grouping aspect will be.I know it won't be forced grouping, but I do hope that guilds can get together and do some of the content.
It seems that over the last few months online there has been tons of rage over TOR, and the way the game is being designed; I.E. Story based not sandbox. My question to the community is why? Why are you dissapointed in the way the game is turning out. If you're a Star Wars Fan (the target audience) you'll be getting your favorite IP turned into an MMO; And not just any MMO one designed around story and intrigue with an engine that looks amazing and with characters that are fully voiced. If your a fan or RPGs, your getting a game designed by the single greatest company in the buisness (bioware) and are going to get the expirence of a life time. The only crowd that leaves are the WoW-esque MMO fans, who tend to like grind based gear gathering and repetitive instances (a niche already filled by WOW). And the SWG Vets (who are not, star wars fans in the strictest sense) who prefer well, SWG a games that already exists. So the question I post to all of the future SW:TOR community is "what could they do differently to please you?"
You shouldnt ask that question otherwise your going to get a wow clone. You should be asking: "Why are you here if what bioware is offering doesnt suit your gaming style?"
What I dont understand is why people cant be content with the way the devs are making the game. If what you see is not what you like in a game you should stop even looking at the game, and move on.
For me personally I am a hardcore grouper fan and it seems TOR will not please my gaming style thus I very rarely come here, and I have no plans to play this game even though I am a big SW fan. There is no need for me to sit in here trolling a game that I will not enjoy. If more people would do this then game boards could have real discussions instead of all the Hardcore vs casual or Solo vs Group bichering that goes on.
I do feel where your coming from because I am highly anticipating FFXIV and SE is known for hardcore PvE with forced grouping yet the casuals and solo'ers are there trying to change what SE does best. I am willing to bet that groupers are in here complaining which they shouldnt be. If they dont like it dont come here.
It seems most people cant be content when other people are getting a game they want which is really sad. I hope SW:ToR turns out to be a great game for you guys.
If this was any other ip I would agree with you.
For example, Lord of the Rings online isnt the sandbox game I wanted it to be. In fact the original design under Sierra was called Middle Earth online and had sandbox features. I dont complain about it though and wish the game and its community all the best.
Warhammer is a pvp focused game. I dont care much for pvp so I havent bothered to try the game. I dont go to their forums and complain that the game isnt what I want though. It is what it is.
However there are 250,000+ ex star wars galaxies players out there to deal with (Im one of them). We feel like LucasArts owes us a replacement mmo for the one they took from us. We feel that LA took our subscription money (stole it really) without our knowledge or approval and made an entirely new game. The NGE was in secret development for at least 6 months using our subscrription money. While we waited patiently for the force ranking system to be brought back along with other broken content LA / SOE used that money for something else. Thats clearly misappropriated use of our money.
What makes this situation even more violatile is that there arent any options for ex galaxies players. There isnt a decent option to move too. Look at the forums for any new game coming and you will see thousands of posts from ex galaxies players hoping for features from our beloved game.
And the mmo genre seems to be getting even more console-like and simplistic. Features once considered required for an mmo like housing arent even mentioned anymore. And thanks to wow's success we have a whole new group of gamers that dont even ask for it.
it feels like we are being pushed aside and ignored for a different audience. And yes we resent it because we are the ones that started this genre
So TOR gets the attention of ex galaxies players and yes theyre going to be upset when they see a linear theme park design similiar to the nge version that stole a wonderful game from us.
If it was any other game I wouldnt even bother posting. But because its LucasArts, its a star wars game, and its another anti-sandbox game we feel resentful.
Im sure the game will be fine as another quasi modified version of an MMO but its not a real MMO in the traditional sense. And thats very disappointing
Even I do not track in close progress and forums of SW:TOR I cannot say there is hate, but just negative opinions on the game. Every person have different taste and preferences, so negative opinion of something do not mean its a hate - its just a opinion!
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
You shouldnt ask that question otherwise your going to get a wow clone. You should be asking: "Why are you here if what bioware is offering doesnt suit your gaming style?"
What I dont understand is why people cant be content with the way the devs are making the game. If what you see is not what you like in a game you should stop even looking at the game, and move on.
For me personally I am a hardcore grouper fan and it seems TOR will not please my gaming style thus I very rarely come here, and I have no plans to play this game even though I am a big SW fan. There is no need for me to sit in here trolling a game that I will not enjoy. If more people would do this then game boards could have real discussions instead of all the Hardcore vs casual or Solo vs Group bichering that goes on.
I do feel where your coming from because I am highly anticipating FFXIV and SE is known for hardcore PvE with forced grouping yet the casuals and solo'ers are there trying to change what SE does best. I am willing to bet that groupers are in here complaining which they shouldnt be. If they dont like it dont come here.
It seems most people cant be content when other people are getting a game they want which is really sad. I hope SW:ToR turns out to be a great game for you guys.
If this was any other ip I would agree with you.
For example, Lord of the Rings online isnt the sandbox game I wanted it to be. In fact the original design under Sierra was called Middle Earth online and had sandbox features. I dont complain about it though and wish the game and its community all the best.
Warhammer is a pvp focused game. I dont care much for pvp so I havent bothered to try the game. I dont go to their forums and complain that the game isnt what I want though. It is what it is.
However there are 250,000+ ex star wars galaxies players out there to deal with (Im one of them). We feel like LucasArts owes us a replacement mmo for the one they took from us. We feel that LA took our subscription money (stole it really) without our knowledge or approval and made an entirely new game. The NGE was in secret development for at least 6 months using our subscrription money. While we waited patiently for the force ranking system to be brought back along with other broken content LA / SOE used that money for something else. Thats clearly misappropriated use of our money.
What makes this situation even more violatile is that there arent any options for ex galaxies players. There isnt a decent option to move too. Look at the forums for any new game coming and you will see thousands of posts from ex galaxies players hoping for features from our beloved game.
And the mmo genre seems to be getting even more console-like and simplistic. Features once considered required for an mmo like housing arent even mentioned anymore. And thanks to wow's success we have a whole new group of gamers that dont even ask for it.
it feels like we are being pushed aside and ignored for a different audience. And yes we resent it because we are the ones that started this genre
So TOR gets the attention of ex galaxies players and yes theyre going to be upset when they see a linear theme park design similiar to the nge version that stole a wonderful game from us.
If it was any other game I wouldnt even bother posting. But because its LucasArts, its a star wars game, and its another anti-sandbox game we feel resentful.
Im sure the game will be fine as another quasi modified version of an MMO but its not a real MMO in the traditional sense. And thats very disappointing
I understand where your coming. I too am feed up with theses wow'esqe games. And MMO's are de-evolving into online console games, where as console games are evolving into the early stages of MMO's (see demons soul). Once they even out then the MMO genre can go back to what it was while the console version of MMO's can please the wow crowd. Until that time were both, with the rest of us who hate wowesqe games, SOL.
I am still fighting tooth and nail in FFXIV board for my hardcore PvE game with forced grouping, but when/IF SE states aspects that are wow'esq, I have no choice but to throw in the towel.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Simple, because no other MMO has come along to replace the immortal Star Wars Galaxies.
Those of us who LIKED the sandbox model in SWG were betrayed by the drive for WoW-kiddies by the CU and NGE. It ruined a game we loved.
Nothing has come along to replace it. Just an endless stream of easier and easier MMO's forever becoming more and more about solo play and power-grinding to the end game were you grind endlessly for gear to get more gear.
SWG was different. Bugged, but different.
SWTOR is not going to be SWG2, not even trying, and that upsets those of us who had hopes for a SWG2 however unrealistic that idea is.
SWTOR should be judged as its own game, but us oldies have a huge grudge and we can't help but vent it now and then.
It will be intresting to see if SWTOR can make it as its own game.
Comments
I don't "hate" TOR, I just don't think it is going in the right direction. I've felt for a while now that MMORPG's are becoming more and more restricting, when they should be doing the opposite. The genre needs more freedom in the games, not more restrictions and funneling. But TOR, with all of the talk about story and what not, seems to be magnifying an already large problem. I've never felt that MMORPG's needed more story, I should be making my own story. I think story is best suited for single player games, not MMORPG's. But Bioware and LA are marketting story as the "missing pillar" in MMOs, and some epic innovation and revolution of the genre.
Having already seen such a great skill system in SWG, seeing contrived, overly restrictive classes seems like a giant step backwards for a Star Wars MMO. Also, the game seems much more like a single player game with a monthly fee than it does an MMO, as they really haven't shown any of the "mmo" in any of the previews yet.
It also pains me that it's a Star Wars mmo being designed this way. I love Star Wars and I know that this will be the last Star Wars mmo for a long time, so I would prefer it to be more to my tastes.
All of that being said, those feelings are in a general sense. I judge each game individually, and while I prefer what was stated above, I good game will beat out what I prefer any day.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I really....REALLY hope that you are right. And if this ends up being the case....if TOR ends up being the game that lets us have our cake and eat it too, then I will publicly apologise on this board and the official SWTOR forum for my pessimism.
I don't feel there is any reason to apologize for anything. Pessimism comes with excitement. We have all been disappointed by the various MMO's that have been coming out. Nothing has really captivated the community past launch in....well, as long as I can remember. If any of you are like myself, you've been waiting for something, nay anything, to come along and capture your attention like your old MMO of choice.
The abundance of uninformed speculation, predictions of doom and gloom, and beacons of hope discussed and presented here show just how much we all want something new.
Of course people are going to be skeptical. Bioware is boasting about a part of their game that not many other MMO's focus on all that much. I imagine most others are going "Oh wow, that is pretty cool. But what about raids, dungeons, PVP, crafting, endgame?" They have only made minor comments addressing the "MMO part" of their game. I am sure they know that we are dying to see what the gameplay holds in store. Each new video shows a bit more.
We are hungry for information. Just like a marketing department would hope for.
Then don't play the game.
I won't.
The game is set during the era of a massive war between the Republic and the Sith, and who do you expect to be?
The guy who sits on the sidelines and serves out cold Kool-Aid when both sides call a time-out?
Why not?
You don't have to be a hero, play Sith and you can be the conquering douchebag who kicks baby kittens and steals walking canes from the senior citizens of the Republic. I think the whole "It's on rails" argument is overblown. The cover systems shows you all the possible cover spots you have, it doesn't force you to go from one specific spot to the next. Did you expect to be able to take cover behind a space daisy or some Kath Hound turd?
Which means there's VERY little real-estate in the game, otherwise they'd need an entire team of people JUST to put a little icon in all the possible PRE DEFINED (which is the KEY here) cover spots in the game.
The story arcs are pre-defined. The cover spots for smugs are pre-defined. EVERYTHING is pre-defined so that the "story" isn't "broken" by a player going along an un-expected route (as explained in one of the very first DEV interviews).
The choices are an illusion. And how long do you think it will be before a web site pops up with all the story brances mapped out so that a given class can just jam down the shortest path, in what will basically amount to a different kind of grind??
You people are naive.
You obviously don't know how object oriented programming works. All you have to do is make a general top class for the structures and objects you can hide behind. When it comes time to using the engine to place these objects on the maps, they come with the ability built in for a smuggler to hide behind. They are not going to go to every single individual spot and place these "hiding spots" by hand. That would be a terrible waste of time. All of these "Facts" you are spewing out are all based on heresay and conjecture. Why don't we wait until more details come out? You guys all seem to be taking the little tidbits they release and running the complete opposite way with them. You have no idea what this game will be like and neither do I, but give BioWare the benefit of the doubt. They know what they're doing and have the resume to prove it.
Or we could just look at the capabilities of the engine they are using...
http://www.heroengine.com/world-building
heresay and conjecture my ass....
Hate leads to TROLLING!
Very Good! You've just taken your first step into a larger world...
Then don't play the game.
I won't.
The game is set during the era of a massive war between the Republic and the Sith, and who do you expect to be?
The guy who sits on the sidelines and serves out cold Kool-Aid when both sides call a time-out?
Why not?
You don't have to be a hero, play Sith and you can be the conquering douchebag who kicks baby kittens and steals walking canes from the senior citizens of the Republic. I think the whole "It's on rails" argument is overblown. The cover systems shows you all the possible cover spots you have, it doesn't force you to go from one specific spot to the next. Did you expect to be able to take cover behind a space daisy or some Kath Hound turd?
Which means there's VERY little real-estate in the game, otherwise they'd need an entire team of people JUST to put a little icon in all the possible PRE DEFINED (which is the KEY here) cover spots in the game.
The story arcs are pre-defined. The cover spots for smugs are pre-defined. EVERYTHING is pre-defined so that the "story" isn't "broken" by a player going along an un-expected route (as explained in one of the very first DEV interviews).
The choices are an illusion. And how long do you think it will be before a web site pops up with all the story brances mapped out so that a given class can just jam down the shortest path, in what will basically amount to a different kind of grind??
You people are naive.
I think the term you're looking for is, "The smugs' cover spots are HIGHLIGHTED when you choose them." You're using the phrase 'pre-defined' to imply that everything has been decided for you, and anyone who's played a Bioware game knows that really isn't the case.
As far as having story branches mapped out, that's going to be totally unnecessary. The way in which Bioware handles conversation dialog makes story branch posting useless some moron out there doesn't understand 'Kill Granny for more darkside' and that the 'shut up and get to the point' option skips five scenes of dialog. Oh, and spoilers, I guess, but that's really more personal preference.
As far as choice being an illusion, "xplained in one of the very first DEV interviews" that "EVERYTHING is pre-defined so that the "story" isn't "broken" by a player going along an un-expected route" then I'd like to see a link to that journal, because in several other releases they've explained that your choices are important and have an impact on the story and your allies, and one of the times they point this out is in the new video they released. You knew that though, because that video is premiering the smuggler cover system as well. By they way, if you go back and watch that video, you'll notice the outline only appears where he leaves cover and AFTER the smug toon starts approaching the cover he's going to use, so the icon is actually a placeholder to show what your position looks like and NOT a big green "ok to hide here" sign.
I think before you start saying people are naive, you should do a little more research into your side of the argument.
you're reaching, and grasping at straws...but that's ok. I don't really expect much more from the TOR fanbot brigade, and I'm not spending my valuable time trying to argue with you. I learned months ago that to dare to speak out about the holy grail of games is inviting a torrent of this kind of responses, which only leads to multiple pages of wasted time.
And I've wasted enough of my time on SWTOR.
I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not going to change the facts.
Edit:
"GFW: And what of player-created content? Player-built cities, player-run businesses, that sort of thing?
Rich Vogel: There'll definitely be an economy in our game, like WoW. But is our game going to be a simulation? No. Our game is an entertainment experience.
James Ohlen: If we're going to create immersive, epic stories that are believable, that really goes against having a simulation-type world. Those two things don't go together well.
Gordon Walton: And putting the onus on players to create all the fun is ... a challenge."
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155486
I don't understand how I was 'reaching', but you won't explain it because it was a vague insult and the best you can do. What I DO understand is that I was able to make my point without insulting anyone, and you pretty much act like you're superior because you've chosen to not play a game, and imply that the fans of SWTOR are some disorganized mass of naive morons.
As far as your example on SWTOR from the DEV interview, you've come tho THIS conclusion:
"EVERYTHING is pre-defined so that the "story" isn't "broken" by a player going along an un-expected route"
From this paragraph:
"GFW: And what of player-created content? Player-built cities, player-run businesses, that sort of thing?
Rich Vogel: There'll definitely be an economy in our game, like WoW. But is our game going to be a simulation? No. Our game is an entertainment experience.
James Ohlen: If we're going to create immersive, epic stories that are believable, that really goes against having a simulation-type world. Those two things don't go together well.
Gordon Walton: And putting the onus on players to create all the fun is ... a challenge."
You'll note that this quote also comes from the same interview:
Rich Vogel, co-studio director of product development: One thing we don't want to do is NPC Pez dispensers, as I call them -- go over there, dispense a quest, and then go "vacuum-clean" a zone. We want to make sure you listen to NPCs, because choices matter. And that's really important.
I don't know where you've gotten 'pre-defined story" from "No Player Cities". I guess I'm not the one 'grasping at straws'.
If you think THAT was insulting, then you are too thin-skinned to be on the MMORPG.com forums, there buddy. Trust me, if I were going to insult you, I would do it in a way that left no question to the fact that I just fucking insulted you.
And actually, I draw my concluseions from the fucking PILE of information and reasons given that TOR won't be a "sandbox" game. It's funny how when someone complains that there's no sandbox in TOR, you people can quickly pull out quotes and evidence as to WHY, but then it suits you can then claim thatr evidence doesn't exist.
And this is another reason why I consider arguing on the TOR forums to be an utter waste of time...it's like a retarded merry-go-round, going round and round and getting nowhere. I can point out facts, and you will claim they don't exist...until of course you need them to back your little argument.
So...have fun. I've got better shit to do.
First off, I didn't say that was I was insulted, I pointed out that you were using insults to help validate your claim. Honestly, you couldn't insult me if you tried if George Carlin were giving you pointers.
Secondly, you didn't complain about TOR not being a sandbox, you said it offers no freedom whatsoever, and I disagreed. I never claimed your facts didn't exist, I disagreed with them, but you're pointing out that the devs are saying one thing and then implying it means another. When someone disagrees, you say they're grasping at straws and reaching and you go on about the futility of arguing with the 'TOR fanbots'. If ANYONE is disregarding facts, it's you, and it makes you sound like a damn hypocrite.
As far as arguing on the TOR forums being a waste of time, and you having better shit to do, you obviously don't because there's more of your posts past this one I'm replying to.
I invite the forum readers to draw their own conclusions.
Or we could just look at the capabilities of the engine they are using...
http://www.heroengine.com/world-building
heresay and conjecture my ass....
Also, where did they say they're using this engine to build the game?
Also, where did they say they're using this engine to build the game?
www.tentonhammer.com/node/51388
That's one place, I'm sure there are a 100 others.
Also, where did they say they're using this engine to build the game?
www.tentonhammer.com/node/51388
That's one place, I'm sure there are a 100 others.
Oh, cool, thanks. I'm wondering what kind of implications this is actually going to have on the final product. I know most games use engines created by other companies for this purpose, but I'm not sure what the HeroEngine can actually do, since the answer Bioware and the HeroEngine guys basically just said, "It's good!"
Basically you can design in real time with multiple users. Unlike the other engines where its design / save / load / play / repeat process until you get it right.
The engine is "suppose to" dramatically decrease development time.
Or we could just look at the capabilities of the engine they are using...
http://www.heroengine.com/world-building
heresay and conjecture my ass....
Also, where did they say they're using this engine to build the game?
see, when you don't even know BASIC information about the game, how is it not a waste of my time to discuss it with you?? It's like clapping with one hand. Come back when you know what you're talking about.
Some people just get their jollies from trolling forums and others will always complain when every game does not cater to them. I have no ideal whether I will like the game or not but being Bioware it is always worth a shot.
You shouldnt ask that question otherwise your going to get a wow clone. You should be asking: "Why are you here if what bioware is offering doesnt suit your gaming style?"
What I dont understand is why people cant be content with the way the devs are making the game. If what you see is not what you like in a game you should stop even looking at the game, and move on.
For me personally I am a hardcore grouper fan and it seems TOR will not please my gaming style thus I very rarely come here, and I have no plans to play this game even though I am a big SW fan. There is no need for me to sit in here trolling a game that I will not enjoy. If more people would do this then game boards could have real discussions instead of all the Hardcore vs casual or Solo vs Group bichering that goes on.
I do feel where your coming from because I am highly anticipating FFXIV and SE is known for hardcore PvE with forced grouping yet the casuals and solo'ers are there trying to change what SE does best. I am willing to bet that groupers are in here complaining which they shouldnt be. If they dont like it dont come here.
It seems most people cant be content when other people are getting a game they want which is really sad. I hope SW:ToR turns out to be a great game for you guys.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Or we could just look at the capabilities of the engine they are using...
http://www.heroengine.com/world-building
heresay and conjecture my ass....
Also, where did they say they're using this engine to build the game?
see, when you don't even know BASIC information about the game, how is it not a waste of my time to discuss it with you?? It's like clapping with one hand. Come back when you know what you're talking about.
You know, you keep insisting it's a waste of time to come here and post, yet you keep doing it. I'd keep coming here to defend myself, but then I went back and read a few of your earlier posts from other threads, where you seem to have been a fan of SWG before the fall. So, if you're going to use stereotypes like 'TOR fanbot' to defend yourself, then I'm just going to say that you're a whiny little SWG fan who was expecting this game to be the old SWG but was sadly disappointed, and are therefore going to bash every TOR fan you find with your fucked up perspective on dev quotes that you call facts.
This is a waste of MY time. Don't even bother replying, cuz I wont be around to see it.
What I dont understand is why people cant be content with the way the devs are making the game. If what you see is not what you like in a game you should stop even looking at the game, and move on.
Actually, the fact that it's a Star Wars game is, I think, the problem.
Everyone has their own idea of what they want in a Star Wars MMORPG. Since it's not just some random MMO, it's THE SW MMO, people have strong opinions. When you tell people that they should just go away and forget about this game, you are telling them "Sorry, no Star Wars for you!", and that doesn't fly with the legion of SW fans who are waiting for their game....and who unfortunately all have their own idea on what that game must be.
actually, what I said was that it was a waste of time to ARGUE WITH YOU. What I, and others are trying to do, is have a fucking conversation here. Stop trying to derail the thread by turning it into a flame war. That is what I'm trying to avoid...it wold be SO nice for once to be able to have a decent discussion on this forum without some FANBOT having to derail the thread by getting all defensive and screaming "ZOMG!!! SWG FANZOR!!!! ONOESSS!!!!"
Participating in a discussion on the TOPIC is not a waste of time...arguing with YOU is.
actually, what I said was that it was a waste of time to ARGUE WITH YOU. What I, and others are trying to do, is have a fucking conversation here. Stop trying to derail the thread by turning it into a flame war. That is what I'm trying to avoid...it wold be SO nice for once to be able to have a decent discussion on this forum without some FANBOT having to derail the thread by getting all defensive and screaming "ZOMG!!! SWG FANZOR!!!! ONOESSS!!!!"
Participating in a discussion on the TOPIC is not a waste of time...arguing with YOU is.
You're right. Arguing on the internet is the least productive thing anyone can do. It's obvious that I misinterpreted some things you said, and reacted in a way that reflects poorly on myself. I apologize.
actually, what I said was that it was a waste of time to ARGUE WITH YOU. What I, and others are trying to do, is have a fucking conversation here. Stop trying to derail the thread by turning it into a flame war. That is what I'm trying to avoid...it wold be SO nice for once to be able to have a decent discussion on this forum without some FANBOT having to derail the thread by getting all defensive and screaming "ZOMG!!! SWG FANZOR!!!! ONOESSS!!!!"
Participating in a discussion on the TOPIC is not a waste of time...arguing with YOU is.
You're right. Arguing on the internet is the least productive thing anyone can do. It's obvious that I misinterpreted some things you said, and reacted in a way that reflects poorly on myself. I apologize.
Apology accepted, and I'll go ahead and give one of my own. I'm not exactly the nicest guy around here....hehehe.
Being a dev with a HeroEngine license, I will say that it is possible (as it is with ***any*** game engine)
to program relatively simple plug-ins for situations like the cover system. Smart Objects and HSL
(Hero-Script Language) can have plugins with your programming language of choice integrated,
much the same as introductory or hopeful dev's do with things like GameMaker.
Once you have the language block fleshed out, adding it via HSL/Smart Objects, if anything- is faster
than most traditional environments, just from the asset programming side.
If a relatively small fish like me can pull off similar capabilities with the engine, than I'm honestly
a bit intimidated by what a behemoth like BioWare can accomplish. While it doesn't seem to be
shaping up as quite the sandbox I too was hoping for- if it is (as I suspect) a massively multi-player
version of the KotOR games, then it will likely keep me amused for at least a couple months.
I sure wish others would follow your example. There are many MMOs I would never touch with a barge pole but I don't run into their forums and demand that their game gets changed to fit my preference. You're a class act.
I'm also curious to see what the grouping aspect will be.I know it won't be forced grouping, but I do hope that guilds can get together and do some of the content.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
You shouldnt ask that question otherwise your going to get a wow clone. You should be asking: "Why are you here if what bioware is offering doesnt suit your gaming style?"
What I dont understand is why people cant be content with the way the devs are making the game. If what you see is not what you like in a game you should stop even looking at the game, and move on.
For me personally I am a hardcore grouper fan and it seems TOR will not please my gaming style thus I very rarely come here, and I have no plans to play this game even though I am a big SW fan. There is no need for me to sit in here trolling a game that I will not enjoy. If more people would do this then game boards could have real discussions instead of all the Hardcore vs casual or Solo vs Group bichering that goes on.
I do feel where your coming from because I am highly anticipating FFXIV and SE is known for hardcore PvE with forced grouping yet the casuals and solo'ers are there trying to change what SE does best. I am willing to bet that groupers are in here complaining which they shouldnt be. If they dont like it dont come here.
It seems most people cant be content when other people are getting a game they want which is really sad. I hope SW:ToR turns out to be a great game for you guys.
If this was any other ip I would agree with you.
For example, Lord of the Rings online isnt the sandbox game I wanted it to be. In fact the original design under Sierra was called Middle Earth online and had sandbox features. I dont complain about it though and wish the game and its community all the best.
Warhammer is a pvp focused game. I dont care much for pvp so I havent bothered to try the game. I dont go to their forums and complain that the game isnt what I want though. It is what it is.
However there are 250,000+ ex star wars galaxies players out there to deal with (Im one of them). We feel like LucasArts owes us a replacement mmo for the one they took from us. We feel that LA took our subscription money (stole it really) without our knowledge or approval and made an entirely new game. The NGE was in secret development for at least 6 months using our subscrription money. While we waited patiently for the force ranking system to be brought back along with other broken content LA / SOE used that money for something else. Thats clearly misappropriated use of our money.
What makes this situation even more violatile is that there arent any options for ex galaxies players. There isnt a decent option to move too. Look at the forums for any new game coming and you will see thousands of posts from ex galaxies players hoping for features from our beloved game.
And the mmo genre seems to be getting even more console-like and simplistic. Features once considered required for an mmo like housing arent even mentioned anymore. And thanks to wow's success we have a whole new group of gamers that dont even ask for it.
it feels like we are being pushed aside and ignored for a different audience. And yes we resent it because we are the ones that started this genre
So TOR gets the attention of ex galaxies players and yes theyre going to be upset when they see a linear theme park design similiar to the nge version that stole a wonderful game from us.
If it was any other game I wouldnt even bother posting. But because its LucasArts, its a star wars game, and its another anti-sandbox game we feel resentful.
Im sure the game will be fine as another quasi modified version of an MMO but its not a real MMO in the traditional sense. And thats very disappointing
Even I do not track in close progress and forums of SW:TOR I cannot say there is hate, but just negative opinions on the game. Every person have different taste and preferences, so negative opinion of something do not mean its a hate - its just a opinion!
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
You shouldnt ask that question otherwise your going to get a wow clone. You should be asking: "Why are you here if what bioware is offering doesnt suit your gaming style?"
What I dont understand is why people cant be content with the way the devs are making the game. If what you see is not what you like in a game you should stop even looking at the game, and move on.
For me personally I am a hardcore grouper fan and it seems TOR will not please my gaming style thus I very rarely come here, and I have no plans to play this game even though I am a big SW fan. There is no need for me to sit in here trolling a game that I will not enjoy. If more people would do this then game boards could have real discussions instead of all the Hardcore vs casual or Solo vs Group bichering that goes on.
I do feel where your coming from because I am highly anticipating FFXIV and SE is known for hardcore PvE with forced grouping yet the casuals and solo'ers are there trying to change what SE does best. I am willing to bet that groupers are in here complaining which they shouldnt be. If they dont like it dont come here.
It seems most people cant be content when other people are getting a game they want which is really sad. I hope SW:ToR turns out to be a great game for you guys.
If this was any other ip I would agree with you.
For example, Lord of the Rings online isnt the sandbox game I wanted it to be. In fact the original design under Sierra was called Middle Earth online and had sandbox features. I dont complain about it though and wish the game and its community all the best.
Warhammer is a pvp focused game. I dont care much for pvp so I havent bothered to try the game. I dont go to their forums and complain that the game isnt what I want though. It is what it is.
However there are 250,000+ ex star wars galaxies players out there to deal with (Im one of them). We feel like LucasArts owes us a replacement mmo for the one they took from us. We feel that LA took our subscription money (stole it really) without our knowledge or approval and made an entirely new game. The NGE was in secret development for at least 6 months using our subscrription money. While we waited patiently for the force ranking system to be brought back along with other broken content LA / SOE used that money for something else. Thats clearly misappropriated use of our money.
What makes this situation even more violatile is that there arent any options for ex galaxies players. There isnt a decent option to move too. Look at the forums for any new game coming and you will see thousands of posts from ex galaxies players hoping for features from our beloved game.
And the mmo genre seems to be getting even more console-like and simplistic. Features once considered required for an mmo like housing arent even mentioned anymore. And thanks to wow's success we have a whole new group of gamers that dont even ask for it.
it feels like we are being pushed aside and ignored for a different audience. And yes we resent it because we are the ones that started this genre
So TOR gets the attention of ex galaxies players and yes theyre going to be upset when they see a linear theme park design similiar to the nge version that stole a wonderful game from us.
If it was any other game I wouldnt even bother posting. But because its LucasArts, its a star wars game, and its another anti-sandbox game we feel resentful.
Im sure the game will be fine as another quasi modified version of an MMO but its not a real MMO in the traditional sense. And thats very disappointing
I understand where your coming. I too am feed up with theses wow'esqe games. And MMO's are de-evolving into online console games, where as console games are evolving into the early stages of MMO's (see demons soul). Once they even out then the MMO genre can go back to what it was while the console version of MMO's can please the wow crowd. Until that time were both, with the rest of us who hate wowesqe games, SOL.
I am still fighting tooth and nail in FFXIV board for my hardcore PvE game with forced grouping, but when/IF SE states aspects that are wow'esq, I have no choice but to throw in the towel.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Simple, because no other MMO has come along to replace the immortal Star Wars Galaxies.
Those of us who LIKED the sandbox model in SWG were betrayed by the drive for WoW-kiddies by the CU and NGE. It ruined a game we loved.
Nothing has come along to replace it. Just an endless stream of easier and easier MMO's forever becoming more and more about solo play and power-grinding to the end game were you grind endlessly for gear to get more gear.
SWG was different. Bugged, but different.
SWTOR is not going to be SWG2, not even trying, and that upsets those of us who had hopes for a SWG2 however unrealistic that idea is.
SWTOR should be judged as its own game, but us oldies have a huge grudge and we can't help but vent it now and then.
It will be intresting to see if SWTOR can make it as its own game.