I'm honestly baffled by the amount of hate. People seem to have enough rage to be starwars fanboys, yet they don't want any of the interesting components that make up the starwars universe... interesting.
I suppose bioware could just give everyone lasers, and make it another starwars based FPS with rpg elements?
Personally, I like that they are trying to make some iconic classes out of an IP that has been plagued by sith/jedi, and has a tough time overcoming that because they are supposed to be insanely better than most everyone else in the universe.The footage we saw, looked more like a starter mission / etc. than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what it was. They haven't stated anything about crafting, etc. (i.e. the other 'choices' you would have within the SW universe). The smuggler's 'cover' skill (while imho the UI for it looked alpha), I thought was a great alternative to stealth. So you're limited to using cover on, well, cover. Big whoop?
I know this will not be a game for everyone, but some of you really should ask yourselves. If a project this massive, made by one of THE best dev studios in the world is going to be chewed apart before it even gets a chance, do you really want to do that to your genre? Which do you think will have a better outcome for MMOs, you actually try and participate in a game's developement, submitting feedback / positive criticism, and THEN calling it out for things only after they haven't been addressed. Essentially giving games a chance before you immediately write them off.
-or-
Immediately flaming, denouncing any game that doesn't appear to immediately cater to you?
Because, if expensive MMO projects keep tanking, the genre isn't going to get any better any time soon. And, because of the simple fact that it takes a ton of money just to please most of your requirements for a 'basic' MMO, the likelyhood of an indy studio coming along and making all your dreams come true is increasingly less likely as well.
Agreed. Also I think a lot of the hate has been generated by the old swg gang becouse the bio boys are not making the game that they want to play. It's almost like they feel they the world owe's them another sandbox star wars game. Personaly I would love them to have that game or sombody to open a classic server. maybee then at the very least they will shut up and fuck off.
I often times consider myself a SWG vet, as the NGE ruined the best MMO experience i've really ever had... however... I couldn't be happier with ToR right now... everything I've seen so far straight up to the dev commentary has really made me more excited about this game. Others may not feel the same way, but so far I really don't understand why people really go out of their way to dislike this game.
Everyone complains they want something new, until something new starts to show itself, and then suddenly the games already failed even before they've released all the class information much less further information on gameplay and level design. It astounds me how ridiculous this community can be sometimes.
Points well made. V nice 2 here a voice of reason:)
I don't hate TOR, but I am against what I have seen of it so far. I trust Bioware, generally.. but that's Bioware Edmonton. Different Bioware.
I love the idea of a story-driven game, but not one that looks terrible, has bad level design, minimalistic effects and boring looking gameplay. There was just nothing that impressed me about this game -beyond- the full-voice choice system. Of course, not everything has been released yet and they could easily fix a few of these problems.
My problem is the hype that people have over what is, from what we have seen so far, a game that looks like it has 1 unique point tacked onto a bad game.
This is all my opinion, of course, as always. Everyone can have an opinion.
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
Where's all the locked threads and mods posting and editing? I dont see it. Are guys sure there is mass amounts of hate coming from a group of people towards this game? The complete lack of mod activity here says differently. Looks excellent so far compared to other games. I see a couple people posting negative opinions, but nothing new. A few misinformed, thats usual.
As far as negative comments about this game...TOR is in great shape.Basicly the usual nonsense.
I see alot more negative comments about people...irrelevant, except for Community Image. And it's not really allowed
TOR is perfect guys. It will get worse later on. But, there is almost 0 'hate" for this game. that's awesome.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
TOR will be great, they arn't pretending it's something it isn't like other recent MMORPGs have and they arn't just after fast cash from the MMO market, so the game already looks VERY polished and high quality even to WoW standard.
As long as EA don't interfere (at all if possible), Bioware could probably make the best MMORPG for years. KOTOR is still pretty much the best single player RPG ever made, lets hope TOR becomes the best MMORPG after release.
We already have a "sandbox" star wars MMO, it's SWG and we all know how much fail that is. Even before the "NGE" is was always a half-arsed effort. Eve was just plane old boring and it's end-game consists of ganking random low levels and lag, it doesn't have anywhere near the amount of content they make out.
Where's all the locked threads and mods posting and editing? I dont see it. Are guys sure there is mass amounts of hate coming from a group of people towards this game? The complete lack of mod activity here says differently. Looks excellent so far compared to other games. I see a couple people posting negative opinions, but nothing new. A few misinformed, thats usual. As far as negative comments about this game...TOR is in great shape.Basicly the usual nonsense. I see alot more negative comments about people...irrelevant, except for Community Image. And it's not really allowed TOR is perfect guys. It will get worse later on. But, there is almost 0 'hate" for this game. that's awesome.
It's not bad now, but earlier this year it was. Right around the time the devs came out and said that the game wasn't going to be a day in the life of Star Wars was when the SWG cultists came out of the closet.They started polls
(which to their astonishment they lost) and tried to high jack every thread into a debate about the core game design.Thankfully, the majority have seemed to move on to other forums and we can finally move on to more important issues and questions.
Where's all the locked threads and mods posting and editing? I dont see it. Are guys sure there is mass amounts of hate coming from a group of people towards this game? The complete lack of mod activity here says differently. Looks excellent so far compared to other games. I see a couple people posting negative opinions, but nothing new. A few misinformed, thats usual. As far as negative comments about this game...TOR is in great shape.Basicly the usual nonsense. I see alot more negative comments about people...irrelevant, except for Community Image. And it's not really allowed TOR is perfect guys. It will get worse later on. But, there is almost 0 'hate" for this game. that's awesome.
It's not bad now, but earlier this year it was. Right around the time the devs came out and said that the game wasn't going to be a day in the life of Star Wars was when the SWG cultists came out of the closet.They started polls
(which to their astonishment they lost) and tried to high jack every thread into a debate about the core game design.Thankfully, the majority have seemed to move on to other forums and we can finally move on to more important issues and questions.
Bad was Darkfall, Vanguard, AOC...
Go check out those forums and compare
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
It seems that over the last few months online there has been tons of rage over TOR, and the way the game is being designed; I.E. Story based not sandbox. My question to the community is why? Why are you dissapointed in the way the game is turning out. If you're a Star Wars Fan (the target audience) you'll be getting your favorite IP turned into an MMO; And not just any MMO one designed around story and intrigue with an engine that looks amazing and with characters that are fully voiced. If your a fan or RPGs, your getting a game designed by the single greatest company in the buisness (bioware) and are going to get the expirence of a life time. The only crowd that leaves are the WoW-esque MMO fans, who tend to like grind based gear gathering and repetitive instances (a niche already filled by WOW). And the SWG Vets (who are not, star wars fans in the strictest sense) who prefer well, SWG a games that already exists. So the question I post to all of the future SW:TOR community is "what could they do differently to please you?"
They're just being childish and freaking out because it isn't a carbon copy of WoW or an SWG pre NGE.
Personally, I'm so sick of carbon copies and the last thing we need is another SWG. I want something fresh and different for a change.
Yeah i agree we need New and fresh anyways most peoples want to go solo in mmo's now .
Originally posted by Mattyb710 People begged and pleaded for a KOTOR MMORPG. Now we are getting EXACTLY that. A KOTOR MMORPG. Those same people now complain because it's not a sandbox game. Did you somehow forget that the KOTOR games were story driven?
exactly, anyone who actually thought that this would be a sandbox game wasn't really using their brain.
So the question I post to all of the future SW:TOR community is "what could they do differently to please you?"
they could take the game off rails, and let let us be who we WANT to be.
I don't want to be FORCED to be a "hero"....I don't want to be forced into a pre-designed "iconic" role....I want a virtual Star Wars universe where I carve my OWN path, and make my own way.
I want more to do than just "exciting Star-Warsy" combat.
A game with depth, and freedom, in other words.
This is simply another step toward over-simplifying and consolising MMORPGs. Have you seen the Smuggler's cover system, for example?? It TELLS you with little icons where to take cover....you're on rails the whole time, with pre-designated courses of action. Any choice is purely an illusion, and any there can be no freedom in this type of game. I am pretty much predicting that any space combat, if it's even included, will be more like Star Fox, or some other rail shooter.
Why the hate?? Because for years we speculated on how AWESOME it would be to have a Star Wars MMORPG set in the Old Republic era....only we were envisioning a REAL MMORPG, not a glorified console game. We're pissed because there will NEVER be a true Star Wars MMORPG as a result of TOR. The potential is wasted.
That is a fair assessment of current MMOs, the whole cookie cutter linear thing and all. But while I can see you being upset that it is going story and not sandbox, and I kind of lament the same thing, it doesn't mean that it cannot still be a great game of that type. Bioware does make quality games and I for one, sandbox or not, and quite interested to see what they do. I don't really think that TOR getting made as story is why we are not getting TOR the sandbox. we are getting story game after story game because the difficulty of building a true sandbox is so great these days and the cost so high to make a game that they cannot risk it - they cannot risk people getting in game and leaving for lack of knowing what to do next nor can they balance all the possibilities and variations of a true skill based sandbox system.
If you must blame someone for the lack of a TOR sandbox game blame SoE for screwing the pooch on SWG releasing an alpha class to bait people to re sub when the game has glaring problems they where unable or unwilling to correct due to an early launch. Blame WoW for reaching so many subscribers that it pointed the entire industry in a direction that is hard to turn away from when budgets to get from concept to launch are upwards of 50 million+.
I don't think it's about SWTOR being a sandbox game or not, KOTOR was also a single player game, so are you saying they have taken that and simply ported it to a expansive online world ?. I think people, from what they have seen and the information readily available are saying this game looks like it's lacking an important social element that makes an MMORPG an MMORPG. Bioware may create a fantastic story driven game which will keep you occupied while the quests last or until you reach the games conclusion but because they haven't shown anything or released information regarding the social aspects of the game, people are rightly assuming this is a single player game using a MMO environment or a single player game masquerading as a MMO.
Obviously there are those who want a simple SWG replacement but I think that's more just wishful thinking rather then not knowing Biowares vision for SWTOR
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Those same people now complain because it's not a sandbox game.
Did you somehow forget that the KOTOR games were story driven?
exactly, anyone who actually thought that this would be a sandbox game wasn't really using their brain.
I agree, but I don't understand what indicates that they're the same people. It seems to me that the people upset about it not bearing a sandbox design are usually SWG refugees and rarely KotOR fans.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
People are pissed cause alot of us, including myself, want a true MMO feel game.. NOT some lame KOTOR that you have to pay a monthly fee to play.. If I wanted to play KoTOR, I would go do that now without paying for a monthly sub.. I don't want a remake of the screwed up SWG, however I was hoping for a MMO flexible sandbox style of game..
Will SWToR have 8 truely unique classes to play? NOOOOOOOO
Will SWToR have Dozens of zones to travel and explore at will? ??? That information hasn't been released..
Will SWToR have Tradeskill economy with THOUSANDS of recipes for people to make and sell? NOOOOOOO
Will SWToR have hobbies similar to fishing to pass the time? NOOOOOOOO
All I'm seeing so far is SWToR will have story, story, story, story, story to follow and jump thru hoops.. (just like kotor) I swear.. When it comes to SWToR and information I feel like I'm dealing with a used car company.. Are you hiding something in fear it will LOSE customers or interest? hmmmmmmm Atleast with car companies when they come out with something new, they atleast will have a Demo for everyone to look at well before it hits production.. Where is our Demo?
Can we see 1 zone map?
Can we see 1 skill list of 1 profession?
Can we see 1 tradeskill? I would like to see what weapons or armor we can make..
From the opposition, I do see the term 'true MMO' a lot, and I used to think like that, but all I can think of now is the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy.
When EverQuest was released, it typically had as many people in one zone on one server as are typically in a single public instance of popular MMOs today, greater proportional distance between starting locations, and certainly a higher percentage of solo players. Was it not a true MMO, or are you ad hoc redefining the term?
'Massively multiplayer online role-playing game' means just that, and TOR more than qualifies. Instancing is a tool enabling a tailored experience thereof.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
From the opposition, I do see the term 'true MMO' a lot, and I used to think like that, but all I can think of now is the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. When EverQuest was released, it typically had as many people in one zone on one server as are typically in a single public instance of popular MMOs today, greater proportional distance between starting locations, and certainly a higher percentage of solo players. Was it not a true MMO, or are you ad hoc redefining the term? 'Massively multiplayer online role-playing game' means just that, and TOR more than qualifies. Instancing is a tool enabling a tailored experience thereof.
I'm not buying that, and I refuse to redefine what MMO stands for.. Let me explain with example.. We all read and seen the beginning "Capt" quest where you have to kill or not kill the Capt.. Is this the type of questing there is thru the entire game? The reason why I ask is because that is "instanced" or phases.. If you haven't noticed, Bioware has complete avoided any talk about multiple people doing the quest at the same time.. Example.. Can 2 or more groups do the Capt Quest at the same time in the same room doing whatever? NO.. What Bioware is doing is NOT mmo standard and NOT an upgrade to the MMO industry.. Part of the feel of a true mmo is the occasional help and grouping with others while adventuring.. Example.. Lets say I'm soloing the Capt quest and find myself lost or not quite into it.. Will another person happen to wonder by and help me in killing all the ship invaders.. NO.. because I'm not in the open world to run into strangers most of the time..
Sorry to say it again.. SWToR is not MMO standard and I see little "social" skills needed.. This is nothing more then a single player game with a pinch of online group to somehow redefine it as a MMORPG.. I'm not fooled
From the opposition, I do see the term 'true MMO' a lot, and I used to think like that, but all I can think of now is the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. When EverQuest was released, it typically had as many people in one zone on one server as are typically in a single public instance of popular MMOs today, greater proportional distance between starting locations, and certainly a higher percentage of solo players. Was it not a true MMO, or are you ad hoc redefining the term? 'Massively multiplayer online role-playing game' means just that, and TOR more than qualifies. Instancing is a tool enabling a tailored experience thereof.
I'm not buying that, and I refuse to redefine what MMO stands for.. Let me explain with example.. We all read and seen the beginning "Capt" quest where you have to kill or not kill the Capt.. Is this the type of questing there is thru the entire game? The reason why I ask is because that is "instanced" or phases.. If you haven't noticed, Bioware has complete avoided any talk about multiple people doing the quest at the same time.. Example.. Can 2 or more groups do the Capt Quest at the same time in the same room doing whatever? NO.. What Bioware is doing is NOT mmo standard and NOT an upgrade to the MMO industry.. Part of the feel of a true mmo is the occasional help and grouping with others while adventuring.. Example.. Lets say I'm soloing the Capt quest and find myself lost or not quite into it.. Will another person happen to wonder by and help me in killing all the ship invaders.. NO.. because I'm not in the open world to run into strangers most of the time..
Sorry to say it again.. SWToR is not MMO standard and I see little "social" skills needed.. This is nothing more then a single player game with a pinch of online group to somehow redefine it as a MMORPG.. I'm not fooled
Yeah...it would be SO much better and MUCH more immersive if 5 groups of people stood around on the bridge of the ship, waiting their turn to kill or save the captain. -.-
From the opposition, I do see the term 'true MMO' a lot, and I used to think like that, but all I can think of now is the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. When EverQuest was released, it typically had as many people in one zone on one server as are typically in a single public instance of popular MMOs today, greater proportional distance between starting locations, and certainly a higher percentage of solo players. Was it not a true MMO, or are you ad hoc redefining the term? 'Massively multiplayer online role-playing game' means just that, and TOR more than qualifies. Instancing is a tool enabling a tailored experience thereof.
I'm not buying that, and I refuse to redefine what MMO stands for.. Let me explain with example.. We all read and seen the beginning "Capt" quest where you have to kill or not kill the Capt.. Is this the type of questing there is thru the entire game? The reason why I ask is because that is "instanced" or phases.. If you haven't noticed, Bioware has complete avoided any talk about multiple people doing the quest at the same time.. Example.. Can 2 or more groups do the Capt Quest at the same time in the same room doing whatever? NO.. What Bioware is doing is NOT mmo standard and NOT an upgrade to the MMO industry.. Part of the feel of a true mmo is the occasional help and grouping with others while adventuring.. Example.. Lets say I'm soloing the Capt quest and find myself lost or not quite into it.. Will another person happen to wonder by and help me in killing all the ship invaders.. NO.. because I'm not in the open world to run into strangers most of the time..
Sorry to say it again.. SWToR is not MMO standard and I see little "social" skills needed.. This is nothing more then a single player game with a pinch of online group to somehow redefine it as a MMORPG.. I'm not fooled
Yeah...it would be SO much better and MUCH more immersive if 5 groups of people stood around on the bridge of the ship, waiting their turn to kill or save the captain. -.-
Don't forget XxDarthVader69xX jumping around making anal [fill in the blank] jokes, while constantly trying to duel you, and begging for credits for his grandmothers rectum reconstruction surgery. If that sounds inappropriate to you then you might want to redefine you're definition of MMORPG cause that's what they are filled with right now. So far I'm loving the way BW is doing SWTOR.
I do not know if the game will appeal to me or not but considering who is developing the game im pretty sure it will. And whether i like the game or not i have trouble thinking it will not do very well in the market. I dont know why people hate on this or any other game that they feel doesnt appeal to their specific needs. If its not your type of game find one that is there are many available be it MMO or single player.
Problem is this game will be just like the rest , problem I'm seeing in this thread is the OP asks why people are hating on the game people are giving honest answers and opinions the haters are getting flak from the fanbois which throw the same tired argument its Bioware!!! They wont fail!!! TOR will be epixxx!!!! There are people that read about the game and some dont like what they see and it is within their right to post their opinion about this game as do the fanbois no need to get all nerdraged when someone post criticism about it.
And tbh not all of Bioware's game werent that great some of them were good but not ALL of them. Plus they have never made a MMO before so before you go off and get on your knees and suck off Bioware's knob all you fanaticism might just backfire in the end.
I saw an interview with a bioware dev about player mindsets and choice, and in a nutshell it basically said players should be forced to choose quickly from a very limited number of options for them to be happy, and that too many choices for most players is a bad thing. Also that not feeling pressure to act was also a bad thing. Sounds to me like linear funneling at its base.
From the opposition, I do see the term 'true MMO' a lot, and I used to think like that, but all I can think of now is the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. When EverQuest was released, it typically had as many people in one zone on one server as are typically in a single public instance of popular MMOs today, greater proportional distance between starting locations, and certainly a higher percentage of solo players. Was it not a true MMO, or are you ad hoc redefining the term? 'Massively multiplayer online role-playing game' means just that, and TOR more than qualifies. Instancing is a tool enabling a tailored experience thereof.
I'm not buying that, and I refuse to redefine what MMO stands for.. Let me explain with example.. We all read and seen the beginning "Capt" quest where you have to kill or not kill the Capt.. Is this the type of questing there is thru the entire game? The reason why I ask is because that is "instanced" or phases.. If you haven't noticed, Bioware has complete avoided any talk about multiple people doing the quest at the same time.. Example.. Can 2 or more groups do the Capt Quest at the same time in the same room doing whatever? NO.. What Bioware is doing is NOT mmo standard and NOT an upgrade to the MMO industry.. Part of the feel of a true mmo is the occasional help and grouping with others while adventuring.. Example.. Lets say I'm soloing the Capt quest and find myself lost or not quite into it.. Will another person happen to wonder by and help me in killing all the ship invaders.. NO.. because I'm not in the open world to run into strangers most of the time..
Sorry to say it again.. SWToR is not MMO standard and I see little "social" skills needed.. This is nothing more then a single player game with a pinch of online group to somehow redefine it as a MMORPG.. I'm not fooled.
You cant talk to some of these people though but I agree with your post, these people are just as bad as the Blizzard WOW fanbois, you cant get it thru their head.
And tbh not all of Bioware's game werent that great some of them were good but not ALL of them. Plus they have never made a MMO before so before you go off and get on your knees and suck off Bioware's knob all you fanaticism might just backfire in the end.
Just out of curiosity, what Bioware game has not been critically acclaimed and well received?
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
And tbh not all of Bioware's game werent that great some of them were good but not ALL of them. Plus they have never made a MMO before so before you go off and get on your knees and suck off Bioware's knob all you fanaticism might just backfire in the end.
Just out of curiosity, what Bioware game has not been critically acclaimed and well received by a lot of people?
Everyone complains they want something new, until something new starts to show itself, and then suddenly the games already failed even before they've released all the class information much less further information on gameplay and level design. It astounds me how ridiculous this community can be sometimes.
Exactly! If a developer tries something new, the game isn't meeting expectations. If a developer tries something traditional, they're just an EQ-clone.
Or if some game doesn't *excatly* match what one individual thinks would make the perfect game, then it's doomed to failure. Certainly ANY game that doesn't match what THEY alone want to see, couldn't possibly be fun, could it?
Nevermind if previous games tried some of those same forumulas and didn't work out well. The MMORPG genre is filled with failures but then the MMORPG community is filled with people who not only complain but are unable to remember the history of the genre.
Which is why I'm so glad to see developers reaching to players *outside* of the MMORPG community. MMORPGs are becoming mainstream and it's far past time that the little niche community start to see why MMORPGs pre-WoW were never as successful as other genres like FPS or RPGs or RTS games.
We'll be seeing MMORPGs that are actually fun to play, and that's certainly not going to match what old MMORPG players were willing to swallow in previous games.
that sonic RPG for the ds? Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood
That's a good guess, but it actually received pretty decent reviews.
1up: A
Game Informer: 8.5
Gamespot: 6.5 (fair)
VideoGamer: 8
And it's sold more copies than Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles.
Lol IGN also gave it a 6.5. If you noticed, 6.5 out of 10 is 65%, that's barely fucking passing by any real standards. good job though. If i played every barely passing game I'd probably kill myself.
Comments
LOL QFT.
I'm honestly baffled by the amount of hate. People seem to have enough rage to be starwars fanboys, yet they don't want any of the interesting components that make up the starwars universe... interesting.
I suppose bioware could just give everyone lasers, and make it another starwars based FPS with rpg elements?
Personally, I like that they are trying to make some iconic classes out of an IP that has been plagued by sith/jedi, and has a tough time overcoming that because they are supposed to be insanely better than most everyone else in the universe.The footage we saw, looked more like a starter mission / etc. than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what it was. They haven't stated anything about crafting, etc. (i.e. the other 'choices' you would have within the SW universe). The smuggler's 'cover' skill (while imho the UI for it looked alpha), I thought was a great alternative to stealth. So you're limited to using cover on, well, cover. Big whoop?
I know this will not be a game for everyone, but some of you really should ask yourselves. If a project this massive, made by one of THE best dev studios in the world is going to be chewed apart before it even gets a chance, do you really want to do that to your genre? Which do you think will have a better outcome for MMOs, you actually try and participate in a game's developement, submitting feedback / positive criticism, and THEN calling it out for things only after they haven't been addressed. Essentially giving games a chance before you immediately write them off.
-or-
Immediately flaming, denouncing any game that doesn't appear to immediately cater to you?
Because, if expensive MMO projects keep tanking, the genre isn't going to get any better any time soon. And, because of the simple fact that it takes a ton of money just to please most of your requirements for a 'basic' MMO, the likelyhood of an indy studio coming along and making all your dreams come true is increasingly less likely as well.
Agreed. Also I think a lot of the hate has been generated by the old swg gang becouse the bio boys are not making the game that they want to play. It's almost like they feel they the world owe's them another sandbox star wars game. Personaly I would love them to have that game or sombody to open a classic server. maybee then at the very least they will shut up and fuck off.
I often times consider myself a SWG vet, as the NGE ruined the best MMO experience i've really ever had... however... I couldn't be happier with ToR right now... everything I've seen so far straight up to the dev commentary has really made me more excited about this game. Others may not feel the same way, but so far I really don't understand why people really go out of their way to dislike this game.
Everyone complains they want something new, until something new starts to show itself, and then suddenly the games already failed even before they've released all the class information much less further information on gameplay and level design. It astounds me how ridiculous this community can be sometimes.
Points well made. V nice 2 here a voice of reason:)
I don't hate TOR, but I am against what I have seen of it so far. I trust Bioware, generally.. but that's Bioware Edmonton. Different Bioware.
I love the idea of a story-driven game, but not one that looks terrible, has bad level design, minimalistic effects and boring looking gameplay. There was just nothing that impressed me about this game -beyond- the full-voice choice system. Of course, not everything has been released yet and they could easily fix a few of these problems.
My problem is the hype that people have over what is, from what we have seen so far, a game that looks like it has 1 unique point tacked onto a bad game.
This is all my opinion, of course, as always. Everyone can have an opinion.
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
Where's all the locked threads and mods posting and editing? I dont see it. Are guys sure there is mass amounts of hate coming from a group of people towards this game? The complete lack of mod activity here says differently. Looks excellent so far compared to other games. I see a couple people posting negative opinions, but nothing new. A few misinformed, thats usual.
As far as negative comments about this game...TOR is in great shape.Basicly the usual nonsense.
I see alot more negative comments about people...irrelevant, except for Community Image. And it's not really allowed
TOR is perfect guys. It will get worse later on. But, there is almost 0 'hate" for this game. that's awesome.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
TOR will be great, they arn't pretending it's something it isn't like other recent MMORPGs have and they arn't just after fast cash from the MMO market, so the game already looks VERY polished and high quality even to WoW standard.
As long as EA don't interfere (at all if possible), Bioware could probably make the best MMORPG for years. KOTOR is still pretty much the best single player RPG ever made, lets hope TOR becomes the best MMORPG after release.
We already have a "sandbox" star wars MMO, it's SWG and we all know how much fail that is. Even before the "NGE" is was always a half-arsed effort. Eve was just plane old boring and it's end-game consists of ganking random low levels and lag, it doesn't have anywhere near the amount of content they make out.
It's not bad now, but earlier this year it was. Right around the time the devs came out and said that the game wasn't going to be a day in the life of Star Wars was when the SWG cultists came out of the closet.They started polls
(which to their astonishment they lost) and tried to high jack every thread into a debate about the core game design.Thankfully, the majority have seemed to move on to other forums and we can finally move on to more important issues and questions.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
It's not bad now, but earlier this year it was. Right around the time the devs came out and said that the game wasn't going to be a day in the life of Star Wars was when the SWG cultists came out of the closet.They started polls
(which to their astonishment they lost) and tried to high jack every thread into a debate about the core game design.Thankfully, the majority have seemed to move on to other forums and we can finally move on to more important issues and questions.
Bad was Darkfall, Vanguard, AOC...
Go check out those forums and compare
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
They're just being childish and freaking out because it isn't a carbon copy of WoW or an SWG pre NGE.
Personally, I'm so sick of carbon copies and the last thing we need is another SWG. I want something fresh and different for a change.
Yeah i agree we need New and fresh anyways most peoples want to go solo in mmo's now .
exactly, anyone who actually thought that this would be a sandbox game wasn't really using their brain.
they could take the game off rails, and let let us be who we WANT to be.
I don't want to be FORCED to be a "hero"....I don't want to be forced into a pre-designed "iconic" role....I want a virtual Star Wars universe where I carve my OWN path, and make my own way.
I want more to do than just "exciting Star-Warsy" combat.
A game with depth, and freedom, in other words.
This is simply another step toward over-simplifying and consolising MMORPGs. Have you seen the Smuggler's cover system, for example?? It TELLS you with little icons where to take cover....you're on rails the whole time, with pre-designated courses of action. Any choice is purely an illusion, and any there can be no freedom in this type of game. I am pretty much predicting that any space combat, if it's even included, will be more like Star Fox, or some other rail shooter.
Why the hate?? Because for years we speculated on how AWESOME it would be to have a Star Wars MMORPG set in the Old Republic era....only we were envisioning a REAL MMORPG, not a glorified console game. We're pissed because there will NEVER be a true Star Wars MMORPG as a result of TOR. The potential is wasted.
That is a fair assessment of current MMOs, the whole cookie cutter linear thing and all. But while I can see you being upset that it is going story and not sandbox, and I kind of lament the same thing, it doesn't mean that it cannot still be a great game of that type. Bioware does make quality games and I for one, sandbox or not, and quite interested to see what they do. I don't really think that TOR getting made as story is why we are not getting TOR the sandbox. we are getting story game after story game because the difficulty of building a true sandbox is so great these days and the cost so high to make a game that they cannot risk it - they cannot risk people getting in game and leaving for lack of knowing what to do next nor can they balance all the possibilities and variations of a true skill based sandbox system.
If you must blame someone for the lack of a TOR sandbox game blame SoE for screwing the pooch on SWG releasing an alpha class to bait people to re sub when the game has glaring problems they where unable or unwilling to correct due to an early launch. Blame WoW for reaching so many subscribers that it pointed the entire industry in a direction that is hard to turn away from when budgets to get from concept to launch are upwards of 50 million+.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
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I don't think it's about SWTOR being a sandbox game or not, KOTOR was also a single player game, so are you saying they have taken that and simply ported it to a expansive online world ?. I think people, from what they have seen and the information readily available are saying this game looks like it's lacking an important social element that makes an MMORPG an MMORPG. Bioware may create a fantastic story driven game which will keep you occupied while the quests last or until you reach the games conclusion but because they haven't shown anything or released information regarding the social aspects of the game, people are rightly assuming this is a single player game using a MMO environment or a single player game masquerading as a MMO.
Obviously there are those who want a simple SWG replacement but I think that's more just wishful thinking rather then not knowing Biowares vision for SWTOR
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exactly, anyone who actually thought that this would be a sandbox game wasn't really using their brain.
I agree, but I don't understand what indicates that they're the same people. It seems to me that the people upset about it not bearing a sandbox design are usually SWG refugees and rarely KotOR fans.
People are pissed cause alot of us, including myself, want a true MMO feel game.. NOT some lame KOTOR that you have to pay a monthly fee to play.. If I wanted to play KoTOR, I would go do that now without paying for a monthly sub.. I don't want a remake of the screwed up SWG, however I was hoping for a MMO flexible sandbox style of game..
Will SWToR have 8 truely unique classes to play? NOOOOOOOO
Will SWToR have Dozens of zones to travel and explore at will? ??? That information hasn't been released..
Will SWToR have Tradeskill economy with THOUSANDS of recipes for people to make and sell? NOOOOOOO
Will SWToR have hobbies similar to fishing to pass the time? NOOOOOOOO
All I'm seeing so far is SWToR will have story, story, story, story, story to follow and jump thru hoops.. (just like kotor) I swear.. When it comes to SWToR and information I feel like I'm dealing with a used car company.. Are you hiding something in fear it will LOSE customers or interest? hmmmmmmm Atleast with car companies when they come out with something new, they atleast will have a Demo for everyone to look at well before it hits production.. Where is our Demo?
Can we see 1 zone map?
Can we see 1 skill list of 1 profession?
Can we see 1 tradeskill? I would like to see what weapons or armor we can make..
Is there actually leveling in the game?
From the opposition, I do see the term 'true MMO' a lot, and I used to think like that, but all I can think of now is the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy.
When EverQuest was released, it typically had as many people in one zone on one server as are typically in a single public instance of popular MMOs today, greater proportional distance between starting locations, and certainly a higher percentage of solo players. Was it not a true MMO, or are you ad hoc redefining the term?
'Massively multiplayer online role-playing game' means just that, and TOR more than qualifies. Instancing is a tool enabling a tailored experience thereof.
I'm not buying that, and I refuse to redefine what MMO stands for.. Let me explain with example.. We all read and seen the beginning "Capt" quest where you have to kill or not kill the Capt.. Is this the type of questing there is thru the entire game? The reason why I ask is because that is "instanced" or phases.. If you haven't noticed, Bioware has complete avoided any talk about multiple people doing the quest at the same time.. Example.. Can 2 or more groups do the Capt Quest at the same time in the same room doing whatever? NO.. What Bioware is doing is NOT mmo standard and NOT an upgrade to the MMO industry.. Part of the feel of a true mmo is the occasional help and grouping with others while adventuring.. Example.. Lets say I'm soloing the Capt quest and find myself lost or not quite into it.. Will another person happen to wonder by and help me in killing all the ship invaders.. NO.. because I'm not in the open world to run into strangers most of the time..
Sorry to say it again.. SWToR is not MMO standard and I see little "social" skills needed.. This is nothing more then a single player game with a pinch of online group to somehow redefine it as a MMORPG.. I'm not fooled
I'm not buying that, and I refuse to redefine what MMO stands for.. Let me explain with example.. We all read and seen the beginning "Capt" quest where you have to kill or not kill the Capt.. Is this the type of questing there is thru the entire game? The reason why I ask is because that is "instanced" or phases.. If you haven't noticed, Bioware has complete avoided any talk about multiple people doing the quest at the same time.. Example.. Can 2 or more groups do the Capt Quest at the same time in the same room doing whatever? NO.. What Bioware is doing is NOT mmo standard and NOT an upgrade to the MMO industry.. Part of the feel of a true mmo is the occasional help and grouping with others while adventuring.. Example.. Lets say I'm soloing the Capt quest and find myself lost or not quite into it.. Will another person happen to wonder by and help me in killing all the ship invaders.. NO.. because I'm not in the open world to run into strangers most of the time..
Sorry to say it again.. SWToR is not MMO standard and I see little "social" skills needed.. This is nothing more then a single player game with a pinch of online group to somehow redefine it as a MMORPG.. I'm not fooled
Yeah...it would be SO much better and MUCH more immersive if 5 groups of people stood around on the bridge of the ship, waiting their turn to kill or save the captain. -.-
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I'm not buying that, and I refuse to redefine what MMO stands for.. Let me explain with example.. We all read and seen the beginning "Capt" quest where you have to kill or not kill the Capt.. Is this the type of questing there is thru the entire game? The reason why I ask is because that is "instanced" or phases.. If you haven't noticed, Bioware has complete avoided any talk about multiple people doing the quest at the same time.. Example.. Can 2 or more groups do the Capt Quest at the same time in the same room doing whatever? NO.. What Bioware is doing is NOT mmo standard and NOT an upgrade to the MMO industry.. Part of the feel of a true mmo is the occasional help and grouping with others while adventuring.. Example.. Lets say I'm soloing the Capt quest and find myself lost or not quite into it.. Will another person happen to wonder by and help me in killing all the ship invaders.. NO.. because I'm not in the open world to run into strangers most of the time..
Sorry to say it again.. SWToR is not MMO standard and I see little "social" skills needed.. This is nothing more then a single player game with a pinch of online group to somehow redefine it as a MMORPG.. I'm not fooled
Yeah...it would be SO much better and MUCH more immersive if 5 groups of people stood around on the bridge of the ship, waiting their turn to kill or save the captain. -.-
Don't forget XxDarthVader69xX jumping around making anal [fill in the blank] jokes, while constantly trying to duel you, and begging for credits for his grandmothers rectum reconstruction surgery. If that sounds inappropriate to you then you might want to redefine you're definition of MMORPG cause that's what they are filled with right now. So far I'm loving the way BW is doing SWTOR.
Problem is this game will be just like the rest , problem I'm seeing in this thread is the OP asks why people are hating on the game people are giving honest answers and opinions the haters are getting flak from the fanbois which throw the same tired argument its Bioware!!! They wont fail!!! TOR will be epixxx!!!! There are people that read about the game and some dont like what they see and it is within their right to post their opinion about this game as do the fanbois no need to get all nerdraged when someone post criticism about it.
And tbh not all of Bioware's game werent that great some of them were good but not ALL of them. Plus they have never made a MMO before so before you go off and get on your knees and suck off Bioware's knob all you fanaticism might just backfire in the end.
I saw an interview with a bioware dev about player mindsets and choice, and in a nutshell it basically said players should be forced to choose quickly from a very limited number of options for them to be happy, and that too many choices for most players is a bad thing. Also that not feeling pressure to act was also a bad thing. Sounds to me like linear funneling at its base.
I'm not buying that, and I refuse to redefine what MMO stands for.. Let me explain with example.. We all read and seen the beginning "Capt" quest where you have to kill or not kill the Capt.. Is this the type of questing there is thru the entire game? The reason why I ask is because that is "instanced" or phases.. If you haven't noticed, Bioware has complete avoided any talk about multiple people doing the quest at the same time.. Example.. Can 2 or more groups do the Capt Quest at the same time in the same room doing whatever? NO.. What Bioware is doing is NOT mmo standard and NOT an upgrade to the MMO industry.. Part of the feel of a true mmo is the occasional help and grouping with others while adventuring.. Example.. Lets say I'm soloing the Capt quest and find myself lost or not quite into it.. Will another person happen to wonder by and help me in killing all the ship invaders.. NO.. because I'm not in the open world to run into strangers most of the time..
Sorry to say it again.. SWToR is not MMO standard and I see little "social" skills needed.. This is nothing more then a single player game with a pinch of online group to somehow redefine it as a MMORPG.. I'm not fooled.
You cant talk to some of these people though but I agree with your post, these people are just as bad as the Blizzard WOW fanbois, you cant get it thru their head.
Just out of curiosity, what Bioware game has not been critically acclaimed and well received?
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Just out of curiosity, what Bioware game has not been critically acclaimed and well received by a lot of people?
that sonic RPG for the ds?
Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood
That's a good guess, but it actually received pretty decent reviews.
1up: A
Game Informer: 8.5
Gamespot: 6.5 (fair)
VideoGamer: 8
And it's sold more copies than Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Exactly! If a developer tries something new, the game isn't meeting expectations. If a developer tries something traditional, they're just an EQ-clone.
Or if some game doesn't *excatly* match what one individual thinks would make the perfect game, then it's doomed to failure. Certainly ANY game that doesn't match what THEY alone want to see, couldn't possibly be fun, could it?
Nevermind if previous games tried some of those same forumulas and didn't work out well. The MMORPG genre is filled with failures but then the MMORPG community is filled with people who not only complain but are unable to remember the history of the genre.
Which is why I'm so glad to see developers reaching to players *outside* of the MMORPG community. MMORPGs are becoming mainstream and it's far past time that the little niche community start to see why MMORPGs pre-WoW were never as successful as other genres like FPS or RPGs or RTS games.
We'll be seeing MMORPGs that are actually fun to play, and that's certainly not going to match what old MMORPG players were willing to swallow in previous games.
That's a good guess, but it actually received pretty decent reviews.
1up: A
Game Informer: 8.5
Gamespot: 6.5 (fair)
VideoGamer: 8
And it's sold more copies than Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles.
Lol IGN also gave it a 6.5. If you noticed, 6.5 out of 10 is 65%, that's barely fucking passing by any real standards. good job though. If i played every barely passing game I'd probably kill myself.
We are talking about KOTOR 3 SPRPG game here and that`s what it should have been.
Instead, Bioware got greedy and walked in an unknown territory for them.
This game smells like a huge fail to me.
As a SPRPG -awesome, as MMORPG - epic failure.
All the fanbois that are in denial at this point, will realize this after they play few classes to end and realize there is not much else to do.
So far I`ve seen ZERO MMO features with staying power in this game.
If there were some planed I`m sure we would have heard about it by now.
A great story is cool and a great story told by a great storyteller is even cooler, but a story by default has a beginning and END.
Bioware should wake up and hire specialized MMORPG developers that will make this game a true MMORPG.
It`s not too late.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.