Oh and to most replyers ill bet 95% did not even played Darkfall while they judge game and agree or say it even deserve a lower rate are also haters/trolls like the reviewer.
Actually, you can judge a book by its cover.
There's enough info out there for many players to determine the game isn't for them.
But you need to let go of the hate and go enjoy playing your game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Oh and to most replyers ill bet 95% did not even played Darkfall while they judge game and agree or say it even deserve a lower rate are also haters/trolls like the reviewer.
So your saying that because the reviewer only gave the game a 6/10, he hates it? That makes him a troll?
No, it's comments like yours that pours fuel on the fire, people who use words like "hate" to produce emotive responses.
I played it, i didn't pay for the privaledge, but i have played the game, if i rate it 6/10 does that mean i hate the game, does that make me a troll because i disagree with those who think this game is a 7, 8 or 9/10?
Only idiots pigeonhole others like that, the world is not black-and-white and neither are peoples personal opinions.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Lol a casual themepark player again reviewed this game and review was realy awefull also i think he just watch eurogamer review and just copy some over. What a terible reviewer and review 2 pages covered MAYBE of half what darkfall has to offer this aint NO REVIEW, man you reviewers dont stop at nothing, try destroy Darkfall HEY:( TROLL /hater reviewer bah:(
Show me when one of you "hardcore", non-themepark morons can present an unbiased, complete, and fair review which gives Darkfall the score it deserves. NOT IN YOUR EYES, but in reality. That day will never come, and you will keep complaining that the reviewer is some themepark carebear noob because he gave the game the score it deserves.
I first got interested in Darkfall something about 8 months before release.
The word before the game released was that this game was going to be much like pre-Trammel Ultima Online save the Combat system which was pretty clear it would be FPS like, not MMO like (UO had a point and Click system, with auto attack but no Tab Select, it required some twitch compared to sticky targets).
One of the issues here is that AV never really did any marketing Campaign, all of its publicity has been word of mouth over the years, and that is the message that the fans waiting for this game let out. AV did not mind because they had justification, they said they did not have the resources for a Marketing Campaign anyways, as they put all of them to the development of the game, plus, well it is nice to sell the "box" to as many people as possible anyways even if these with not continue a subscription past the first month.
I read the FAQ's I read the Forum posts, the Lore, everything, and waited with anticipation, if some of you remember Darkfall had been voted the Most Anticipated game of 2008 by MMORPG.com, the Hype was really high as the Message appealed to many styles of players, come launch many of us realised how wrong that Hype really was.
So launch day came, and a quarter of my guild, including myself were lucky enough to get in to it, and that is when we also realised how little we knew abut the game. nevertheless we gave it a fair chance, we stuck with it for 3 months till we all decided to leave the world of Agon in utter disgust and great disapointment.
Sure the game had the same Chaotic Setting as UO, relatvely safe starting towns and a completelly unsafe Wilderness where everything goes, FFA Full Loss Combat System, something that we were accustomed to from UO, yet even this aspect had its shortcommings.
It also sports the same Inventory and Banking system as UO, no grid to hold your "precious" loot, but most importantly, NO LIMITATIONS (except for weight, which depends on your character's stats, the stronger you are the more you can carry), I always disliked the limited Inventory systems of Game shat followed UO.
Dragging each item in a messed up way in your inventory is really not a problem, you can always take some time and sort it out when your back in a town with a bank, and you can organise your bank with various different bags, one for armor one for weapons one of materials one for reagents etc etc, your pick your choice, no system to dictate to you otherwise or ask you to pay for an expanded bank so it can force you out there grinding quests to get the necessary gold.
On the other hand, all items are useable , and you will use them up in all undertakings, since the game has full Loss mechanics you will also often lose them, and there aren't items that will stay in your Inventory for Months on end until you can get the chance to roll on peice #2 of a 6 part set.
All in all I am simply elaborating on this feature just to show how even a simple feature such as the way the inventory is setup in a game can say much about the rest of the design and how some other systems relate to it. There is a reason why many games have limited inventories and that is not for organisation purposes.
But enough said about that single feature, what imports in the end is how the game plays overall with all its features combined together.
To properly express this an analogy to UO needs to be made. As DFO, is really not UO in the end. In fact it is quite the Opposite.
First things first UO's focus as a game was Adventure, if UO had a and popular PvP emphasis it was because of the players not because of its design, yet that PvP was healthy in nature due to its design. DFO, has no Adventure focus at all. It is strictly focused on PvP, yet the unhealthy kind of PvP, as even the starting towns cannot be safe enough to permit players to lick their wounds or rebuild, unless you are unguilded, and since War declaration between guilds is one sided and emediate, people will declare war on your guild while you are crafting in a town as a way to by pass town security and in order to loot you.
The reviewer qualifies the progression of the Skill system as organic, and up to that degree I will agree, however, there is nothing organic about its implementation, in all actuality the Skill system in DFO is more Kin to a Level based Grind System, as it takes time, much time and effort, for everything, so much time in fact that once you finally master a Combat skill you stick with it and forget about the rest because you really are fed up by that time raising skills.
Which is very different from UO that had was designed for people to custom make their characters and change professions depending on trends and needs or tastes. There is no skill experimentation allowed in DFO, past a certain point it can be a mistake to change weapon focus. In UO you could drop a skill and learn another within a couple of weeks, for those that haven;t had the chance to play UO, maybe SWG (pre-NGE) will be a point of reference since it used the same system as UO.
To me, DFO is as far as the Progression of the character goes, more like EQ than UO in reality, combined with Shadowbane.
And like Shadowbane, it fails in that regard, those that did play Shadowbane must remember how intricate initially the Class system was meant to be, and also how it quickly was dropped, and the leveling enhanced so a person can level to 75 in 3 days, because it simply did not match with the PvP Focus of the game.
The Crafting System of DFO is a whole new issue. Which suffers not from the Long Progression Curve, it was relativelly long in UO to master a profession such as Blacksmith too, but from the fact that one cannot Progress in it unless they are part of a Zerg Guild that has each own town and Mining nodes, and can progress within its safety.
The alignement system of DFO is simply a joke, the game tries to combine a Factional Premise with FFA PvP, 2 thirds of the population are natural enemies to you at the same time as a very soft alignment system, where one can attack freely people of their own faction and take a hit but then turn around go inside a player town and work that alignment up again with their buddies, ready to ambush the next newbie that is trying to progress near a starting town. These are not the UO systems.
Additionally, these are not the UO times. In UO the population was made up of 80% to 85% lawfull players and 15-20% unlawfull players. As most were already used to play within the scope of Ultima Lore, in the 8 or so single player games that preceded UO where their role consisted of playing the avatar in his fight against evil, and quest to help good defeat evil.
In UO 3 out of 10 encounters would be with hostile players that wanted to kill you, and 7 out of 10 would be with players that wanted to befriend you. In spite of the chaotic setting, it worked because of that.
In DFO 9.5 out of 10 encounters is with Hostile players.
And the reason is because DFO has been designed to appeal primarily to that 15-20% of unlawfull players of UO. And while there is nothing wrong with making a niche game, or making a game that appeals to a niche play style. DFO falls short of in its visions due to this.
Why? Because you cannot expect an in game community to flurish from Community Destroyers. Plus,there is nothing in DFO that appeals to Community builders, it lacks the Tools for this, the Chat the Mechanics, the Conquest system, House ownership, Crafting Guild War mechanics etc, all of its systems and mechanics are counter productive towards community building and geared to community destruction.
You cannot go out there and Build a Village or a town, that flourishes and endures like in UO, from the get go, you have to plan Destroying someone else's Town in order to build yours upon its ruins, everyone is a potential enemy, even temporary allies, like a pack of hunrgy wolves that have to compete with eachother during a harsh winter and food shortage.
Even the recent expansion fails in that regard, they pretend that they add housing as people wanted it but the forget to mention which people wanted it that way. It is simply more bones for the wolves to fight over.
As such, DFO is nothing like UO even if its has some features that are similar, because Darkfall is in reality a game about Destruction, and UO was a game about Construction.
Two different schools of thought.
Therefore it should come as no surprise why DFO is being given such poor reviews. I personally give it a 4/10 overall.
And wishing fun to all those that like it, may you play it for many years to come, destroying one another.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Lol a casual themepark player again reviewed this game and review was realy awefull also i think he just watch eurogamer review and just copy some over. What a terible reviewer and review 2 pages covered MAYBE of half what darkfall has to offer this aint NO REVIEW, man you reviewers dont stop at nothing, try destroy Darkfall HEY:( TROLL /hater reviewer bah:(
If he was a troll he wouldn't have mentioned DFs good sides and he did. But you can't find any reviewer that actually play through 100% of a MMOs content. The only way to do that would be using huge fans of the game in question and have them write the review because it takes months to see all content of a MMO.
And if they used huge fans the whole review would be pointless because every single game would get 10/10, you must get someone who can be impartial to write it.
The review said that the game have a lot of potential but still feels like a beta, that is not something just aimed to destroy the game. But Avi shouldn't released the game until it was finnished, we already seen SOE, Mythic and Funcom losing a lot of potential customers because of that. If Avi fixes and polishes up the game the review score will improve in a re-review but you couldn't have expected them to make a 10/10 review in it's current shape, could you?
And writing how much care bear the reviewer is doesn't really help your thing either. Dfs community have some nice players but also some shouting trolls and your moaning looks more like trolling to me than the review. He actually had something to say and tried to explain why he thought as he did. A non troll would ppoint out the things they don't agree with him on in a civil matter, not accuse him of trying to destroy the game.
I think his score makes sense. I can also see how impossibly hard it can be to "Unbiasly" score a "Niche game". Especially if you once fit into the niche and now don't as much. So many factors to play into it. That's just the exterior, then we get into reviewing mechanics, playability, fun factor. Ect. ALL while having to find a in-between of 2 serperate mind sets. Dividing the Niche and the Normal. Honestly, I don't think I could find a proper score for this game if I tried unless I just went out and called out a number on my "Personal preference". Like I said, doing it unbiasly is the real kicker.
Personally, the game would probably geta 4 from me. I can see parts like large scale PVP being fun looking past all the glitches, and clunky sword swinging. But to someone who lives and breathes the great open world +sandbox and freedom and cares about the niche fun they find more than the setbacks, I can see it being up in the 7-9 zone.
What campany took as much as risks as AV to deliver a DIFFERENT game at the far opposite of WOW ? This game is a blast for those who love PVP. If you want adrenaline, give it a try and I'm sure you will stick to this game.
And that is why it receives DIFFERENT scores too.
There is nothing wrong with making a Different game, and this is not punishment for making a different game either.
But the truth is that the game is made for a small portion of the player community nevertheles, as you said, those that Love PvP of this form, and as such, when the majority of people review it that do not Like this form of PvP will score it according to their liking.
It is to be expected.
A game that receives a 10 on 10 would be a game that is liked by all, since all of its features are liked by all, the moment you have someone that does not like the game or a certain feature of the game, points are lost. Normal.
If you like the game fine, may you have fun in it, but do not complain on the scores, since the truth is that DFO is not liked by all.
Review scores are like the "average", you give it 10 and another person gives it 1, the average is 5.5.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Why? Because it does something different, and in a MMORPG that seems to be unheard of now a days. I played Darkfall for a good 2-3 months and during that time I had more fun playing then I did in 4-5 years of any other game.
The amount of potential in this type of world is completely endless, The problem is the polish like the review said, if this game had a smoother interface, better graphic and audio quality, I guarantee this game could have killed half the competition.
Sometimes me and my friends would just aw at how amazing darkfall was, the design of the world, the view distance, 500 people in a single battle, sometimes even the graphics.. But then we cringe at the sounds that come from our spells and the actual look of the spells, or the look of some of the character animation..
In the end Darkfall was the best MMO I played in a good 4-5 years even though it only lasted a few months, and that's why it deserves at least a 6.
Image World of Warcraft as a faction based game like Darkfall, with no levels, you can make human factions, create a city, defend it, gather wood, gather stone, in a world as big as Darkfall.. that is what Darkfall proved possible.. is that not worth respect?
So at the end of the day, this is a game that is different (or tried to be different) and has lots of potential. All the goodies stops there.
What is actually delivered, the actual game itself, tries to be different, but failed at realising the potential.
To be honest, in order to really enjoy the game, I suggest waiting till the potentials are realised. That I presume is one of the reasons why the fan base drops from 300k to 3k.
As for the suggestion that WoW as a faction based with ... come on, WoW is big enough, with lots of NPCs and people to interact with. DF has close to no NPC and 3k players mostly afk macroing. Why must we imagine WoW when playing DF? Why not just play WoW and imagine DF. At least we have the game to play, not to afk macro and daydream about a better than WoW game.
So at the end of the day, this is a game that is different (or tried to be different) and has lots of potential. All the goodies stops there. What is actually delivered, the actual game itself, tries to be different, but failed at realising the potential. To be honest, in order to really enjoy the game, I suggest waiting till the potentials are realised. That I presume is one of the reasons why the fan base drops from 300k to 3k. As for the suggestion that WoW as a faction based with ... come on, WoW is big enough, with lots of NPCs and people to interact with. DF has close to no NPC and 3k players mostly afk macroing. Why must we imagine WoW when playing DF? Why not just play WoW and imagine DF. At least we have the game to play, not to afk macro and daydream about a better than WoW game.
I wonder what percentage of the 300k pre-release fan base actually tried DF? 30k maybe?
And I'm wondering about their current numbers - if DF's number had really picked up with the NA release, Tasos would be mentioning that 24/7 I'd bet.
I've seen some mention about the NA players looking forward to a numbers increase on their server in two months when the transfers from the euro server become free, but isn't that just a shifting of numbers? The NA server's increase will be at the expense of the euro server.
And if the euro sever loses serious numbers to the NA, what becomes of game play on the euro servers with a dwindling population?
I'm wondering if a free trial might be needed about now to save the day.
So at the end of the day, this is a game that is different (or tried to be different) and has lots of potential. All the goodies stops there. What is actually delivered, the actual game itself, tries to be different, but failed at realising the potential. To be honest, in order to really enjoy the game, I suggest waiting till the potentials are realised. That I presume is one of the reasons why the fan base drops from 300k to 3k. As for the suggestion that WoW as a faction based with ... come on, WoW is big enough, with lots of NPCs and people to interact with. DF has close to no NPC and 3k players mostly afk macroing. Why must we imagine WoW when playing DF? Why not just play WoW and imagine DF. At least we have the game to play, not to afk macro and daydream about a better than WoW game.
I wonder what percentage of the 300k pre-release fan base actually tried DF? 30k maybe?
And I'm wondering about their current numbers - if DF's number had really picked up with the NA release, Tasos would be mentioning that 24/7 I'd bet.
I've seen some mention about the NA players looking forward to a numbers increase on their server in two months when the transfers from the euro server become free, but isn't that just a shifting of numbers? The NA server's increase will be at the expense of the euro server.
And if the euro sever loses serious numbers to the NA, what becomes of game play on the euro servers with a dwindling population?
I'm wondering if a free trial might be needed about now to save the day.
First about the sub numbers and player base. DF is a different beast when it comes to sub. You actually need ppl to play in order that there is a game in DF. Lets imagine, say 300k sub and only 5 person online. This will give AV enuf money, but no gameplay. DF need both sub and people online. It is likely that they still have 10k or so sub (which is pathetic already and bad for a developer with $12million to repay, plus interest), it is very likely that only 3k are online at any time and only 300 are actively moving, while the rest are afk macroing. This is the bane of this game. Not enough sub, no pve, everyone has to afk macro, and so no one around to pvp. So the true pvpers unsub, leaving behind the afk macroers. The cycle repeats, even less sub, most pvpers gone, the rest online are afk macroers. This may explain why the remaining fans are so active patrolling the boards, they are the afk macroers, who have nothing to do even ingame.
Second about the free trial, its like ad. You can bring people in with ads, but you need a way to retain them after the trial. Look at the paragraph above. What is the point of spending valuable money on free trial, if, at the end of the day, all free trials leave, spreading the word that DF is poison.
Key to DF now is retention. The game design, the actual game delivered, and the rabid fan base, all contributed to near zero retention rate. If they cannot fix it, all they have left in the sub base are repulsive players, with no one willing to go near them.
You simply cant review darkfall without spending alot of time in the game, and I'm talking a month or two. also joining an active guild is essential.
This is why Darkfall is a massive FAIL 3/10 or 1/5 in my opinion.
When you have to work your butt off and invest 1-2 months in a game before you can have fun- the game SUCKS.
When you have to join a guild to have fun or to even play the game to have a chance of winning- the game SUCKS.
When you can't jump right in and within 1 hour be PLAYING the REAL game- the game sucks and needs improvement.
MMO's could learn a lot from the consoles ability to pop a disc in, and immediately play the FULL, REAL, game- and thus have fun. Some people may have fun in those months it takes to get to the REAL game of an MMO- but most do not. Most want to play the fun part right away, because that's why they play games- to have fun, not work hard.
==================
This isn't just Darkfall though, this is a lot of MMO's- ESPECIALLY PvP MMO's.
Several things plague MMO's for me as a long-time MMO and video gamer.
When levels 1-10 are boring because they're trying to teach new gamers how to play- the game sucks, even if it's fun.
When it's not about skill, but about gear, twinking, or larger pops being major power players- the game sucks, for those with skill.
The older I get, the more I realize I have less and less time to WASTE spending 4 hours to play a game for 20 minutes. Grouping alone takes too long, let alone waiting for everyone to come back from afk, move on to the next objective, etc.
MMO's need to learn
In every game genre, I'm a good gamer, ranging from 6/10 to 10/10 skill level. I'm tired of being a gamer who can beat most players, but losing 50% of the time because I lack twink enchanted gear, uber gear, or i'm fighting 4v2 or 8v3 in games that that ONE extra character can and will equate to a MASSIVE amount of power (especially if they're a healer, and you aren't.)
Fortunately, I feel MMO's are beginning to balance out gear, nerf twinks, and make skill > numbers- BUT MMO's still fail for other reasons (like being a crappy copy of WoW. Don't copy something that good... because you can't beat it.)
UNFORTUNATELY- darkfall is NOT one of those games. The developers continue to "expand" the game by widening the power difference between the have and the have nots. Newbie weapons nerfed while epic weapons strengthened. Naked players (new/poor/unskilled) stand NO chance against an equipped player (rich, skilled, and mounted) or guilded players (10 vs 1-3, no chance since the 3 prob dont have mounts and the 10 almost definitely will).
I played Darkfall for 1 month, 8-12 hours a day. I had nothing else to do, and wanting to give it a chance- hoping it would get better as I skilled up and gained in wealth. NOPE!
Darkfall favors gear over player skill. Numbers over player skill. Twinks (24/7 macro character skills) over player skill.
The only thing a good player can do against a large group or geared group is run away... UNLESS they have a mount or arrows. Then you have a 100% failure rate, even if the town is right next to you.
quote : "Darkfall favors gear over player skill. Numbers over player skill. Twinks (24/7 macro character skills) over player skill."
Wrong. If that was true then how come this guy with the best gear and 100 level fire magic and archery and above 60 on all stats couldn't kill me as soon as i hit the water? Player Skill? Oh snap ! Can't be ! There's no way he couldn't kill me because i had the brain power to buff my self with Gills and just dive to the bottom of the lake and just parry down there till he realized i was not taking dmg while he was trying to get to me. And then ofc he died to my friends that i had already called through vent.
Darkfall is the ONLY mmo that I have played so far that requires real player skill if you want to do something worth mentioning in-game.
6/10 is pretty decent. Any higher would just bring more carebears to the game. Don't forget Lineage 2 got a 7/10 back in the days of its glory. And NCsoft's team has 100s of people, not 50ish like AV.
They pulled the game off and they are actually making a living out of it, at least give them that. Cause they deserve it.
Don't worry, your dear little game is not going to attract any serious number of real players, carebear or not. If all you want is to own the game and the digital landscape you got it. Just stay online and pvp whoever few left inside. Good to hear you feel great fighting each other in a big empty server.
As for the constant need to compare DF to other games in attempt to find some face saving, I would just ask, why bother. If you like the game you can play it even if no one else does. L2 has a huge following and has been a cash cow for NC Soft, enough for them to send some stupid guy to the space. AV, it would be lucky if they can pay their rent, they are going to default on the $12 million loan plus interest. Great way to show how successful AV by comparing DF to L2.
Does AV deserve credit, your view my view. Trying to tell us that AV tried something different is one thing, finishing the sentence by saying it cost its investors $12 million + 8 years and ended up with a product only a few thousand feels interested is another story. Hack if you give me $12 million I can try something very different. Everybody can, if they have $12 million to squander.
Being different, trying to be different is one thing, getting it to work at acceptable cost is another is another thing. Where do you think is the appropriate focus, appropriate way to judge. YVMV.
Most of the review was spot on except for the comment on sparsity of wildlife in RL(real-life)woods. I don't know what woods he considered a forest, but a group of trees in a city park doesn't count. Any real forest you go into today will be easily full of life from squirrels to wolves, bears, etc. Especially if you go further back in history before cities and towns, wildlife was even more abundant and overflowing, not to mention extremely dangerous. That being said, AV's view on making DF scarce on wildlife was idiotic at best in such a primal environment.
Oh, one other thing, just having a 1st person perspective does not make a game automaticly "immersive", lol. Saying you felt immersed only because the way it looked built also proves nothing. He really needs to expand on reasons for his opinion more. Like others have said, giving DF a 6 was beyond being nice.
I give the game credit for trying to make a skill game. But games have done this before without making it so unforgiving. GW was a skill based game and its awesome! (just lacks content) I say this game is a DARKFAIL!
I have not seen a single reference to old school Ultima Online pre-T2A. Nearly all of his criticisms are a throw back to UO. The only thing new is the fps element.
Trying to judge this based on EQ/WoW criteria misses the point entirely.
Comments
Actually, you can judge a book by its cover.
There's enough info out there for many players to determine the game isn't for them.
But you need to let go of the hate and go enjoy playing your game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So your saying that because the reviewer only gave the game a 6/10, he hates it? That makes him a troll?
No, it's comments like yours that pours fuel on the fire, people who use words like "hate" to produce emotive responses.
I played it, i didn't pay for the privaledge, but i have played the game, if i rate it 6/10 does that mean i hate the game, does that make me a troll because i disagree with those who think this game is a 7, 8 or 9/10?
Only idiots pigeonhole others like that, the world is not black-and-white and neither are peoples personal opinions.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Show me when one of you "hardcore", non-themepark morons can present an unbiased, complete, and fair review which gives Darkfall the score it deserves. NOT IN YOUR EYES, but in reality. That day will never come, and you will keep complaining that the reviewer is some themepark carebear noob because he gave the game the score it deserves.
I first got interested in Darkfall something about 8 months before release.
The word before the game released was that this game was going to be much like pre-Trammel Ultima Online save the Combat system which was pretty clear it would be FPS like, not MMO like (UO had a point and Click system, with auto attack but no Tab Select, it required some twitch compared to sticky targets).
One of the issues here is that AV never really did any marketing Campaign, all of its publicity has been word of mouth over the years, and that is the message that the fans waiting for this game let out. AV did not mind because they had justification, they said they did not have the resources for a Marketing Campaign anyways, as they put all of them to the development of the game, plus, well it is nice to sell the "box" to as many people as possible anyways even if these with not continue a subscription past the first month.
I read the FAQ's I read the Forum posts, the Lore, everything, and waited with anticipation, if some of you remember Darkfall had been voted the Most Anticipated game of 2008 by MMORPG.com, the Hype was really high as the Message appealed to many styles of players, come launch many of us realised how wrong that Hype really was.
So launch day came, and a quarter of my guild, including myself were lucky enough to get in to it, and that is when we also realised how little we knew abut the game. nevertheless we gave it a fair chance, we stuck with it for 3 months till we all decided to leave the world of Agon in utter disgust and great disapointment.
Sure the game had the same Chaotic Setting as UO, relatvely safe starting towns and a completelly unsafe Wilderness where everything goes, FFA Full Loss Combat System, something that we were accustomed to from UO, yet even this aspect had its shortcommings.
It also sports the same Inventory and Banking system as UO, no grid to hold your "precious" loot, but most importantly, NO LIMITATIONS (except for weight, which depends on your character's stats, the stronger you are the more you can carry), I always disliked the limited Inventory systems of Game shat followed UO.
Dragging each item in a messed up way in your inventory is really not a problem, you can always take some time and sort it out when your back in a town with a bank, and you can organise your bank with various different bags, one for armor one for weapons one of materials one for reagents etc etc, your pick your choice, no system to dictate to you otherwise or ask you to pay for an expanded bank so it can force you out there grinding quests to get the necessary gold.
On the other hand, all items are useable , and you will use them up in all undertakings, since the game has full Loss mechanics you will also often lose them, and there aren't items that will stay in your Inventory for Months on end until you can get the chance to roll on peice #2 of a 6 part set.
All in all I am simply elaborating on this feature just to show how even a simple feature such as the way the inventory is setup in a game can say much about the rest of the design and how some other systems relate to it. There is a reason why many games have limited inventories and that is not for organisation purposes.
But enough said about that single feature, what imports in the end is how the game plays overall with all its features combined together.
To properly express this an analogy to UO needs to be made. As DFO, is really not UO in the end. In fact it is quite the Opposite.
First things first UO's focus as a game was Adventure, if UO had a and popular PvP emphasis it was because of the players not because of its design, yet that PvP was healthy in nature due to its design. DFO, has no Adventure focus at all. It is strictly focused on PvP, yet the unhealthy kind of PvP, as even the starting towns cannot be safe enough to permit players to lick their wounds or rebuild, unless you are unguilded, and since War declaration between guilds is one sided and emediate, people will declare war on your guild while you are crafting in a town as a way to by pass town security and in order to loot you.
The reviewer qualifies the progression of the Skill system as organic, and up to that degree I will agree, however, there is nothing organic about its implementation, in all actuality the Skill system in DFO is more Kin to a Level based Grind System, as it takes time, much time and effort, for everything, so much time in fact that once you finally master a Combat skill you stick with it and forget about the rest because you really are fed up by that time raising skills.
Which is very different from UO that had was designed for people to custom make their characters and change professions depending on trends and needs or tastes. There is no skill experimentation allowed in DFO, past a certain point it can be a mistake to change weapon focus. In UO you could drop a skill and learn another within a couple of weeks, for those that haven;t had the chance to play UO, maybe SWG (pre-NGE) will be a point of reference since it used the same system as UO.
To me, DFO is as far as the Progression of the character goes, more like EQ than UO in reality, combined with Shadowbane.
And like Shadowbane, it fails in that regard, those that did play Shadowbane must remember how intricate initially the Class system was meant to be, and also how it quickly was dropped, and the leveling enhanced so a person can level to 75 in 3 days, because it simply did not match with the PvP Focus of the game.
The Crafting System of DFO is a whole new issue. Which suffers not from the Long Progression Curve, it was relativelly long in UO to master a profession such as Blacksmith too, but from the fact that one cannot Progress in it unless they are part of a Zerg Guild that has each own town and Mining nodes, and can progress within its safety.
The alignement system of DFO is simply a joke, the game tries to combine a Factional Premise with FFA PvP, 2 thirds of the population are natural enemies to you at the same time as a very soft alignment system, where one can attack freely people of their own faction and take a hit but then turn around go inside a player town and work that alignment up again with their buddies, ready to ambush the next newbie that is trying to progress near a starting town. These are not the UO systems.
Additionally, these are not the UO times. In UO the population was made up of 80% to 85% lawfull players and 15-20% unlawfull players. As most were already used to play within the scope of Ultima Lore, in the 8 or so single player games that preceded UO where their role consisted of playing the avatar in his fight against evil, and quest to help good defeat evil.
In UO 3 out of 10 encounters would be with hostile players that wanted to kill you, and 7 out of 10 would be with players that wanted to befriend you. In spite of the chaotic setting, it worked because of that.
In DFO 9.5 out of 10 encounters is with Hostile players.
And the reason is because DFO has been designed to appeal primarily to that 15-20% of unlawfull players of UO. And while there is nothing wrong with making a niche game, or making a game that appeals to a niche play style. DFO falls short of in its visions due to this.
Why? Because you cannot expect an in game community to flurish from Community Destroyers. Plus,there is nothing in DFO that appeals to Community builders, it lacks the Tools for this, the Chat the Mechanics, the Conquest system, House ownership, Crafting Guild War mechanics etc, all of its systems and mechanics are counter productive towards community building and geared to community destruction.
You cannot go out there and Build a Village or a town, that flourishes and endures like in UO, from the get go, you have to plan Destroying someone else's Town in order to build yours upon its ruins, everyone is a potential enemy, even temporary allies, like a pack of hunrgy wolves that have to compete with eachother during a harsh winter and food shortage.
Even the recent expansion fails in that regard, they pretend that they add housing as people wanted it but the forget to mention which people wanted it that way. It is simply more bones for the wolves to fight over.
As such, DFO is nothing like UO even if its has some features that are similar, because Darkfall is in reality a game about Destruction, and UO was a game about Construction.
Two different schools of thought.
Therefore it should come as no surprise why DFO is being given such poor reviews. I personally give it a 4/10 overall.
And wishing fun to all those that like it, may you play it for many years to come, destroying one another.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I don't care about DF but honestly I wonder how an editor can call this a review.
If he was a troll he wouldn't have mentioned DFs good sides and he did. But you can't find any reviewer that actually play through 100% of a MMOs content. The only way to do that would be using huge fans of the game in question and have them write the review because it takes months to see all content of a MMO.
And if they used huge fans the whole review would be pointless because every single game would get 10/10, you must get someone who can be impartial to write it.
The review said that the game have a lot of potential but still feels like a beta, that is not something just aimed to destroy the game. But Avi shouldn't released the game until it was finnished, we already seen SOE, Mythic and Funcom losing a lot of potential customers because of that. If Avi fixes and polishes up the game the review score will improve in a re-review but you couldn't have expected them to make a 10/10 review in it's current shape, could you?
And writing how much care bear the reviewer is doesn't really help your thing either. Dfs community have some nice players but also some shouting trolls and your moaning looks more like trolling to me than the review. He actually had something to say and tried to explain why he thought as he did. A non troll would ppoint out the things they don't agree with him on in a civil matter, not accuse him of trying to destroy the game.
I think his score makes sense. I can also see how impossibly hard it can be to "Unbiasly" score a "Niche game". Especially if you once fit into the niche and now don't as much. So many factors to play into it. That's just the exterior, then we get into reviewing mechanics, playability, fun factor. Ect. ALL while having to find a in-between of 2 serperate mind sets. Dividing the Niche and the Normal. Honestly, I don't think I could find a proper score for this game if I tried unless I just went out and called out a number on my "Personal preference". Like I said, doing it unbiasly is the real kicker.
Personally, the game would probably geta 4 from me. I can see parts like large scale PVP being fun looking past all the glitches, and clunky sword swinging. But to someone who lives and breathes the great open world +sandbox and freedom and cares about the niche fun they find more than the setbacks, I can see it being up in the 7-9 zone.
good review thx
What campany took as much as risks as AV to deliver a DIFFERENT game at the far opposite of WOW ?
This game is a blast for those who love PVP. If you want adrenaline, give it a try and I'm sure you will stick to this game.
And that is why it receives DIFFERENT scores too.
There is nothing wrong with making a Different game, and this is not punishment for making a different game either.
But the truth is that the game is made for a small portion of the player community nevertheles, as you said, those that Love PvP of this form, and as such, when the majority of people review it that do not Like this form of PvP will score it according to their liking.
It is to be expected.
A game that receives a 10 on 10 would be a game that is liked by all, since all of its features are liked by all, the moment you have someone that does not like the game or a certain feature of the game, points are lost. Normal.
If you like the game fine, may you have fun in it, but do not complain on the scores, since the truth is that DFO is not liked by all.
Review scores are like the "average", you give it 10 and another person gives it 1, the average is 5.5.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Darkfall deserves a 6 and nothing less..
Why? Because it does something different, and in a MMORPG that seems to be unheard of now a days. I played Darkfall for a good 2-3 months and during that time I had more fun playing then I did in 4-5 years of any other game.
The amount of potential in this type of world is completely endless, The problem is the polish like the review said, if this game had a smoother interface, better graphic and audio quality, I guarantee this game could have killed half the competition.
Sometimes me and my friends would just aw at how amazing darkfall was, the design of the world, the view distance, 500 people in a single battle, sometimes even the graphics.. But then we cringe at the sounds that come from our spells and the actual look of the spells, or the look of some of the character animation..
In the end Darkfall was the best MMO I played in a good 4-5 years even though it only lasted a few months, and that's why it deserves at least a 6.
Image World of Warcraft as a faction based game like Darkfall, with no levels, you can make human factions, create a city, defend it, gather wood, gather stone, in a world as big as Darkfall.. that is what Darkfall proved possible.. is that not worth respect?
So at the end of the day, this is a game that is different (or tried to be different) and has lots of potential. All the goodies stops there.
What is actually delivered, the actual game itself, tries to be different, but failed at realising the potential.
To be honest, in order to really enjoy the game, I suggest waiting till the potentials are realised. That I presume is one of the reasons why the fan base drops from 300k to 3k.
As for the suggestion that WoW as a faction based with ... come on, WoW is big enough, with lots of NPCs and people to interact with. DF has close to no NPC and 3k players mostly afk macroing. Why must we imagine WoW when playing DF? Why not just play WoW and imagine DF. At least we have the game to play, not to afk macro and daydream about a better than WoW game.
I wonder what percentage of the 300k pre-release fan base actually tried DF? 30k maybe?
And I'm wondering about their current numbers - if DF's number had really picked up with the NA release, Tasos would be mentioning that 24/7 I'd bet.
I've seen some mention about the NA players looking forward to a numbers increase on their server in two months when the transfers from the euro server become free, but isn't that just a shifting of numbers? The NA server's increase will be at the expense of the euro server.
And if the euro sever loses serious numbers to the NA, what becomes of game play on the euro servers with a dwindling population?
I'm wondering if a free trial might be needed about now to save the day.
I wonder what percentage of the 300k pre-release fan base actually tried DF? 30k maybe?
And I'm wondering about their current numbers - if DF's number had really picked up with the NA release, Tasos would be mentioning that 24/7 I'd bet.
I've seen some mention about the NA players looking forward to a numbers increase on their server in two months when the transfers from the euro server become free, but isn't that just a shifting of numbers? The NA server's increase will be at the expense of the euro server.
And if the euro sever loses serious numbers to the NA, what becomes of game play on the euro servers with a dwindling population?
I'm wondering if a free trial might be needed about now to save the day.
First about the sub numbers and player base. DF is a different beast when it comes to sub. You actually need ppl to play in order that there is a game in DF. Lets imagine, say 300k sub and only 5 person online. This will give AV enuf money, but no gameplay. DF need both sub and people online. It is likely that they still have 10k or so sub (which is pathetic already and bad for a developer with $12million to repay, plus interest), it is very likely that only 3k are online at any time and only 300 are actively moving, while the rest are afk macroing. This is the bane of this game. Not enough sub, no pve, everyone has to afk macro, and so no one around to pvp. So the true pvpers unsub, leaving behind the afk macroers. The cycle repeats, even less sub, most pvpers gone, the rest online are afk macroers. This may explain why the remaining fans are so active patrolling the boards, they are the afk macroers, who have nothing to do even ingame.
Second about the free trial, its like ad. You can bring people in with ads, but you need a way to retain them after the trial. Look at the paragraph above. What is the point of spending valuable money on free trial, if, at the end of the day, all free trials leave, spreading the word that DF is poison.
Key to DF now is retention. The game design, the actual game delivered, and the rabid fan base, all contributed to near zero retention rate. If they cannot fix it, all they have left in the sub base are repulsive players, with no one willing to go near them.
This is why Darkfall is a massive FAIL 3/10 or 1/5 in my opinion.
When you have to work your butt off and invest 1-2 months in a game before you can have fun- the game SUCKS.
When you have to join a guild to have fun or to even play the game to have a chance of winning- the game SUCKS.
When you can't jump right in and within 1 hour be PLAYING the REAL game- the game sucks and needs improvement.
MMO's could learn a lot from the consoles ability to pop a disc in, and immediately play the FULL, REAL, game- and thus have fun. Some people may have fun in those months it takes to get to the REAL game of an MMO- but most do not. Most want to play the fun part right away, because that's why they play games- to have fun, not work hard.
==================
This isn't just Darkfall though, this is a lot of MMO's- ESPECIALLY PvP MMO's.
Several things plague MMO's for me as a long-time MMO and video gamer.
When levels 1-10 are boring because they're trying to teach new gamers how to play- the game sucks, even if it's fun.
When it's not about skill, but about gear, twinking, or larger pops being major power players- the game sucks, for those with skill.
The older I get, the more I realize I have less and less time to WASTE spending 4 hours to play a game for 20 minutes. Grouping alone takes too long, let alone waiting for everyone to come back from afk, move on to the next objective, etc.
MMO's need to learn
In every game genre, I'm a good gamer, ranging from 6/10 to 10/10 skill level. I'm tired of being a gamer who can beat most players, but losing 50% of the time because I lack twink enchanted gear, uber gear, or i'm fighting 4v2 or 8v3 in games that that ONE extra character can and will equate to a MASSIVE amount of power (especially if they're a healer, and you aren't.)
Fortunately, I feel MMO's are beginning to balance out gear, nerf twinks, and make skill > numbers- BUT MMO's still fail for other reasons (like being a crappy copy of WoW. Don't copy something that good... because you can't beat it.)
UNFORTUNATELY- darkfall is NOT one of those games. The developers continue to "expand" the game by widening the power difference between the have and the have nots. Newbie weapons nerfed while epic weapons strengthened. Naked players (new/poor/unskilled) stand NO chance against an equipped player (rich, skilled, and mounted) or guilded players (10 vs 1-3, no chance since the 3 prob dont have mounts and the 10 almost definitely will).
I played Darkfall for 1 month, 8-12 hours a day. I had nothing else to do, and wanting to give it a chance- hoping it would get better as I skilled up and gained in wealth. NOPE!
Darkfall favors gear over player skill. Numbers over player skill. Twinks (24/7 macro character skills) over player skill.
The only thing a good player can do against a large group or geared group is run away... UNLESS they have a mount or arrows. Then you have a 100% failure rate, even if the town is right next to you.
Lol, you're comparing Darkfall to Lineage 2, even in terms of score? LOL.
Darkfall is shit.
/neednotsaymorewhathasbeenstatedtoomanytimesabouthisshitpieceofgreekcrap
6 is too high a score for darkfall.
more like a 2 or a 3.
KERPLAH!
Don't worry, your dear little game is not going to attract any serious number of real players, carebear or not. If all you want is to own the game and the digital landscape you got it. Just stay online and pvp whoever few left inside. Good to hear you feel great fighting each other in a big empty server.
As for the constant need to compare DF to other games in attempt to find some face saving, I would just ask, why bother. If you like the game you can play it even if no one else does. L2 has a huge following and has been a cash cow for NC Soft, enough for them to send some stupid guy to the space. AV, it would be lucky if they can pay their rent, they are going to default on the $12 million loan plus interest. Great way to show how successful AV by comparing DF to L2.
Does AV deserve credit, your view my view. Trying to tell us that AV tried something different is one thing, finishing the sentence by saying it cost its investors $12 million + 8 years and ended up with a product only a few thousand feels interested is another story. Hack if you give me $12 million I can try something very different. Everybody can, if they have $12 million to squander.
Being different, trying to be different is one thing, getting it to work at acceptable cost is another is another thing. Where do you think is the appropriate focus, appropriate way to judge. YVMV.
Most of the review was spot on except for the comment on sparsity of wildlife in RL(real-life)woods. I don't know what woods he considered a forest, but a group of trees in a city park doesn't count. Any real forest you go into today will be easily full of life from squirrels to wolves, bears, etc. Especially if you go further back in history before cities and towns, wildlife was even more abundant and overflowing, not to mention extremely dangerous. That being said, AV's view on making DF scarce on wildlife was idiotic at best in such a primal environment.
Oh, one other thing, just having a 1st person perspective does not make a game automaticly "immersive", lol. Saying you felt immersed only because the way it looked built also proves nothing. He really needs to expand on reasons for his opinion more. Like others have said, giving DF a 6 was beyond being nice.
Honestly I think the game wasn't given a high enough score. The game is the most fun I've had with a MMO in a long time.
an 8 or even 9 out of 10 is a more accurate score.
I sense the impression that he wanted to give it a lower score, but didnt want to join on the band wagon.
Notice how often he says "Personally I like this...." which means to say... "everyone else doesnt seem to like this.."
And I quote...
"I simply have to be honest: it isn't a polished game. In fact, I just couldn't find it playable in any enjoyable way"
Which means to me, 0 / 10
if they get rid of the FPS bullshit, maybe.
Shadowlord Sage
CmdrAkbar
Napa Valley, UO, 1997.
I give the game credit for trying to make a skill game. But games have done this before without making it so unforgiving. GW was a skill based game and its awesome! (just lacks content) I say this game is a DARKFAIL!
The game is a pile of junk in almost every way possible.
I wouldn't even play it for free.
The fact that they try to charge $15+ for what basically comes down to
a featureless contentless outdated poorly produced FPS that is barely in
Beta stages is borderline criminal.
Not to mention the fact that they had to dupe the foolish into buying
the same client twice probably to try and make any kind of money
before the ship sinks which is going to happen real soon.
This thing has been the biggest failure of a MMO ever. It was supposed
to be bread from the Gods.
You could literally go play free games that are much higher quality.
I have not seen a single reference to old school Ultima Online pre-T2A. Nearly all of his criticisms are a throw back to UO. The only thing new is the fps element.
Trying to judge this based on EQ/WoW criteria misses the point entirely.