You people are incredible. Well, screw it. I'm done arguing with you eve folks. This can't end well nomatter how it goes. Signing off this thread, as usual when I get into argument with Eve people. Hell, even Zorndorf is more sensible.
LOL. Next time don't make claims you cant back up and then you won't have to run away all indignant like
I will continue to enjoy a thinking man's game with limitless possibilities.
Are you finished mentally masturbating your ego yet? Good. Wipe yourself off and let's move on...
Just because someone doesn't like a game you do doesn't give you the right to belittle them by insinuating they are stupid. I played Eve for 4 1/2 years before asshats like you drove me away from the game. If Eve becomes a colossal failure in the future, it will be your kind, and not any fault of the game itself. CCP should be embarrassed to have supporters like you.
Originally posted by Gdemami Originally posted by Katilla it's based on players SKILLS that you spent points into. Not player skill, for the action is more of an RTS then anything. Which basically means if you have not been in the game for ages, you pretty much fail against people who have, and they make up the majority of this community. and ffs a WoW comment? get real.
You were directed to WoW because that is what you think EVE is. If you think that character age matters in EVE, you better stop making such clueless statements and/or go playing game that is familiar to you.
Character skills are secondary in PVP and on the contrary, the game allows you to 'catch up' faster then in any other game.
You can never make a valid argument that the amount of time someone has been in the game doesn't matter when your skills increase in real-time. The time you have been subbed to the game is one of the most important things that determines your power and versatility.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Originally posted by Leodious You can never make a valid argument that the amount of time someone has been in the game doesn't matter when your skills increase in real-time. The time you have been subbed to the game is one of the most important things that determines your power and versatility.
I never said SP does not matter.
Yes, SP brings versatility to your character but power comes solely from the thing you have between your ears.
You people are incredible. Well, screw it. I'm done arguing with you eve folks. This can't end well nomatter how it goes. Signing off this thread, as usual when I get into argument with Eve people. Hell, even Zorndorf is more sensible.
The eve people, especially gdemmi have been pretty polite to you, especially considering the bile and vitriol you are spraying. if you need to run away however, please do.
You can't say that. Yes, being relatively intelligent helps...a lot. But when you have skills that increase your damage, your speed, what you can use, and the kinds of ships you can fly, those skills do directly increase your power. There is no valid way to claim that they do not. They do. It's just so obvious that when there is a skill that increase the damage you do, having that skill will increase your power.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Originally posted by Leodious You can't say that. Yes, being relatively intelligent helps...a lot. But when you have skills that increase your damage, your speed, what you can use, and the kinds of ships you can fly, those skills do directly increase your power. There is no valid way to claim that they do not. They do. It's just so obvious that when there is a skill that increase the damage you do, having that skill will increase your power.
No. That is not how EVE works.
Put in short: Ships, damage, fittings, skills, etc. - all are just tools.
Your SP does not mean much if you can't utilize them.
Originally posted by Xennith The eve people, especially gdemmi have been pretty polite to you, especially considering the bile and vitriol you are spraying. if you need to run away however, please do.
The basic skills are easy to get you dont have to be playing that long to have some nice bonus' from skills and be able to use tech 2's. Its more about strategy in the end.
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
I hope someone answers this for me. If you buy the $4.99 deal do you get to actually use your 21 day trial account? It says in highlights that "product keys will not work with existing Eve Online accounts. I'm confused because i would assume you couldn't get the deal stacked onto your 21 day free trial but people in here seem to think you can.
Yes, it will work. What it means is that you can't use the $4.99 purchase to extend an existing subscribed account. The 21 day TRIAL is not a subscribed account. Thus you can use the $4.99 purchase to activate a trial and it will tack the free play time on top of the trial time so you get a total of 51 days of play for $4.99
It's an AWESOME deal tbh.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
1) Pod jumping (anyone can do. If you really want to know how, pm me and I'll explain it. Not going to get into a long discussion about it on the forums unless a lot of people don't know, then I'll just make a post about it)
2) Jump clones (anyone with 0.0 access or good faction standing with an npc corp from running missions can do)
3) Jump bridges (from titans) (anyone in a corp/alliance that has titans can do)
4) Jump portals (capital ships/blackops) (Anyone who owns a cap can do)
5) Jump bridge networks (anyone in an alliance that has one can do)
It is possible to cross VAST distances in EVE very quickly. If you know how to play the game that is.
Originally posted by Xennith
a thrasher will beat a wolf, the wolf costs 10 times as much and needs 10 times the skillpoints.
lose the WoW mindset.
QFT: I have over 65 kills in a thrasher hull (and had a 7:1 KTD in the damn thing too) back before I could fly anything T2... in fact I couldn't even use T2 guns at the time. People need to lose the linear MMO progression mindset when talking about EVE. EVE isn't linear. It's multifaceted and completely sandbox. All skills do is allow you to fit better ships with better equipment.
Skills do not:
teach you how to properly fit a ship
fit your ships for you
teach you which ships fly well in certain situations
teach you how to counter those ships
teach you how to fly those ships properly
teach you how to pick your fights
Those 6 items will determine whether you win or lose a fight 9 times more often than your total number of skillpoints will. I've seen 'vets' with 4+ years in the game die to 4-8 month old players soooo many times because those 4-8 month old players knew how to fly the ships they were in, picked the right ship and the right fitting for the situation and dictated the battlefield so that their ship would have the advantage.
Skills just give you versatility and the ability to fit a slightly more effective ship. They do not win battles unless both pilots are equally SMART and fly their ships equally WELL. Then, and only then, do the skillpoints really matter beyond those necessary to properly fit the ship in the first place.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
You can't say that. Yes, being relatively intelligent helps...a lot. But when you have skills that increase your damage, your speed, what you can use, and the kinds of ships you can fly, those skills do directly increase your power. There is no valid way to claim that they do not. They do. It's just so obvious that when there is a skill that increase the damage you do, having that skill will increase your power.
What no one has quite made clear to you yet is that each ship has a specific (and limited) set of skills that are required to fly it well, and these skills are level capped.
I've been playing for over 2 years now, but you could equal my level of skill training in a number of ships that I fly in 6 months or less.
Once you get all the key skills up to level 5, we're dead even, and even before then, you could be level 4 in all key skills and still beat me because I sort of suck at PVP. (heck, noobs can beat me)
The difference in power between level 4 skills (which are quite obtainable) vs level 5 skills is normally 5% (10% in some rarer cases).
That 5% difference will not prevent you from winning if you are the smarter pilot and learn how to fit your ship properly and learn when its better to run than fight.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The time and training to get to a point that you can make enough cash and get enough skill to use tactics like Taram mentioned is just ridiculous. You have to spend a few days training the .. wait for it.. training skills (skills for learning so that you can learn more skills faster lol) to even have a shot at getting out of the area you start in in a decent amount of time. It takes weeks and weeks to accumulate enough information, reputation, cash and skills to do anything effectively. I played long enough to get into a battleship and after all that time and all that training it just didn't do it for me. The game has a certain addiction that it hard to let go of, that much I'll agree on. The worst part is the distance from the jumps to get into the gates.. there is a couple minutes at default autojump speeds from the area you jump to and the next gate. Waiting is the name of the game, long enough so that they can collect next months paycheck.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
The time and training to get to a point that you can make enough cash and get enough skill to use tactics like Taram mentioned is just ridiculous. You have to spend a few days training the .. wait for it.. training skills (skills for learning so that you can learn more skills faster lol) to even have a shot at getting out of the area you start in in a decent amount of time. It takes weeks and weeks to accumulate enough information, reputation, cash and skills to do anything effectively. I played long enough to get into a battleship and after all that time and all that training it just didn't do it for me. The game has a certain addiction that it hard to let go of, that much I'll agree on. The worst part is the distance from the jumps to get into the gates.. there is a couple minutes at default autojump speeds from the area you jump to and the next gate. Waiting is the name of the game, long enough so that they can collect next months paycheck.
It was a lack of humity fail. His grasp of the game is flawless.
It takes weeks to be effective at what? If the goal of the game is to have fun then I was effective from the first moments I played.
Are you aware you arent forced to use auto pilot? The only time I use AP is when Im in high sec and Im going to be AFK.
I personally dont get the travel time complaints about EVE. I spend less time traveling in EVE than I ever did in M59, UO, EQ, AC, DaoC, Wow.
The time and training to get to a point that you can make enough cash and get enough skill to use tactics like Taram mentioned is just ridiculous. You have to spend a few days training the .. wait for it.. training skills (skills for learning so that you can learn more skills faster lol) to even have a shot at getting out of the area you start in in a decent amount of time. It takes weeks and weeks to accumulate enough information, reputation, cash and skills to do anything effectively. I played long enough to get into a battleship and after all that time and all that training it just didn't do it for me. The game has a certain addiction that it hard to let go of, that much I'll agree on. The worst part is the distance from the jumps to get into the gates.. there is a couple minutes at default autojump speeds from the area you jump to and the next gate. Waiting is the name of the game, long enough so that they can collect next months paycheck.
Dude
It takes MAYBE .... MAYBE... 3 weeks to have enough skills to fly a properly fitted thrasher. Or did you completely miss the part where I said I didn't even have T2 guns yet. In fact I couldn't even use T2 shield extenders (which are one of the easiest T2 items to train for btw). In fact my gunnery support skills were only trained to 3 each at the time. I was VERY low skilled when I flew that thing, pretty much a newbie. Even a T1 fitted thrasher is death on wheels to any frigate foolish enough to get anywhere near it. And it's even deadly to some cruisers.
As to learning how to fight? A person who takes the Agony Unleashed PVP 101 course will know enough about how to fly small ships to do just fine in PVP, even with a 1 week old toon. Granted more playtime generally means more experience but you don't need to be a month's old player to have learned the game if you take the time to read the forums, take the time to learn how to PVP in the game and, preferably, take the PVP 100 series courses from Agony Unleashed (or join a PVP corp and have them teach you the ropes). I know players, personally, who are less than 6 months old that are already top notch PVP'ers and rack up kills like crazy. Matter of fact one of the best PVP'ers I know was deadly even when he was only a month or so into the game flying a damn Rifter. (just over a year ago)... Now? He's one of the best PVPers in my former corp and he solos most of the time.
Seriously, learn to play the game before making statments that just make you look silly to anyone who knows what they're doing in EVE. Oh... and hint: Battleships SUCK for PVP unless you can fit them EXTREMELY well (talking full T2 tank, T2 weapons, ability to have a heavy neut (or two) in the highs and preferably the ability to remote rep). Some of them you can get away with T1 guns but even they really need T2 weapons to shine properly. To get into a well fit frig/destroyer/cruiser takes FAR less time and is, imo, a hell of a lot more fun.
As to your silly comment about autopilot: Don't autopilot. Use warp-to-zero. Takes maybe 35 seconds to 1 minute to cross an entire system if you do that. Autopilot takes ages. Especially in an improperly fit battleship. The only time I use autopilot is if I need to go do something away from the game and can leave the computer running. I set my destination, set it to safer route and let my ship go, then go off and do whatever I need to. When I get back my ship is where I needed to be and I can start playing immediately. Other than that? Use warp to zero.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Comments
LOL. Next time don't make claims you cant back up and then you won't have to run away all indignant like
Are you finished mentally masturbating your ego yet? Good. Wipe yourself off and let's move on...
Just because someone doesn't like a game you do doesn't give you the right to belittle them by insinuating they are stupid. I played Eve for 4 1/2 years before asshats like you drove me away from the game. If Eve becomes a colossal failure in the future, it will be your kind, and not any fault of the game itself. CCP should be embarrassed to have supporters like you.
You were directed to WoW because that is what you think EVE is. If you think that character age matters in EVE, you better stop making such clueless statements and/or go playing game that is familiar to you.
Character skills are secondary in PVP and on the contrary, the game allows you to 'catch up' faster then in any other game.
You can never make a valid argument that the amount of time someone has been in the game doesn't matter when your skills increase in real-time. The time you have been subbed to the game is one of the most important things that determines your power and versatility.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
I never said SP does not matter.
Yes, SP brings versatility to your character but power comes solely from the thing you have between your ears.
The eve people, especially gdemmi have been pretty polite to you, especially considering the bile and vitriol you are spraying. if you need to run away however, please do.
You can't say that. Yes, being relatively intelligent helps...a lot. But when you have skills that increase your damage, your speed, what you can use, and the kinds of ships you can fly, those skills do directly increase your power. There is no valid way to claim that they do not. They do. It's just so obvious that when there is a skill that increase the damage you do, having that skill will increase your power.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
No. That is not how EVE works.
Put in short:
Ships, damage, fittings, skills, etc. - all are just tools.
Your SP does not mean much if you can't utilize them.
What?! Polite??
Omg..my account was hacked!!
The basic skills are easy to get you dont have to be playing that long to have some nice bonus' from skills and be able to use tech 2's. Its more about strategy in the end.
Yes, it will work. What it means is that you can't use the $4.99 purchase to extend an existing subscribed account. The 21 day TRIAL is not a subscribed account. Thus you can use the $4.99 purchase to activate a trial and it will tack the free play time on top of the trial time so you get a total of 51 days of play for $4.99
It's an AWESOME deal tbh.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Actually I can go 22 jumps in about 10 seconds.
But obviously you've never heard of:
1) Pod jumping (anyone can do. If you really want to know how, pm me and I'll explain it. Not going to get into a long discussion about it on the forums unless a lot of people don't know, then I'll just make a post about it)
2) Jump clones (anyone with 0.0 access or good faction standing with an npc corp from running missions can do)
3) Jump bridges (from titans) (anyone in a corp/alliance that has titans can do)
4) Jump portals (capital ships/blackops) (Anyone who owns a cap can do)
5) Jump bridge networks (anyone in an alliance that has one can do)
It is possible to cross VAST distances in EVE very quickly. If you know how to play the game that is.
QFT: I have over 65 kills in a thrasher hull (and had a 7:1 KTD in the damn thing too) back before I could fly anything T2... in fact I couldn't even use T2 guns at the time. People need to lose the linear MMO progression mindset when talking about EVE. EVE isn't linear. It's multifaceted and completely sandbox. All skills do is allow you to fit better ships with better equipment.
Skills do not:
Those 6 items will determine whether you win or lose a fight 9 times more often than your total number of skillpoints will. I've seen 'vets' with 4+ years in the game die to 4-8 month old players soooo many times because those 4-8 month old players knew how to fly the ships they were in, picked the right ship and the right fitting for the situation and dictated the battlefield so that their ship would have the advantage.
Skills just give you versatility and the ability to fit a slightly more effective ship. They do not win battles unless both pilots are equally SMART and fly their ships equally WELL. Then, and only then, do the skillpoints really matter beyond those necessary to properly fit the ship in the first place.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Well said Taram
What no one has quite made clear to you yet is that each ship has a specific (and limited) set of skills that are required to fly it well, and these skills are level capped.
I've been playing for over 2 years now, but you could equal my level of skill training in a number of ships that I fly in 6 months or less.
Once you get all the key skills up to level 5, we're dead even, and even before then, you could be level 4 in all key skills and still beat me because I sort of suck at PVP. (heck, noobs can beat me)
The difference in power between level 4 skills (which are quite obtainable) vs level 5 skills is normally 5% (10% in some rarer cases).
That 5% difference will not prevent you from winning if you are the smarter pilot and learn how to fit your ship properly and learn when its better to run than fight.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Of course it was
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Of course it was
FAIL
Of course it was
FAIL
I agree.
The time and training to get to a point that you can make enough cash and get enough skill to use tactics like Taram mentioned is just ridiculous. You have to spend a few days training the .. wait for it.. training skills (skills for learning so that you can learn more skills faster lol) to even have a shot at getting out of the area you start in in a decent amount of time. It takes weeks and weeks to accumulate enough information, reputation, cash and skills to do anything effectively. I played long enough to get into a battleship and after all that time and all that training it just didn't do it for me. The game has a certain addiction that it hard to let go of, that much I'll agree on. The worst part is the distance from the jumps to get into the gates.. there is a couple minutes at default autojump speeds from the area you jump to and the next gate. Waiting is the name of the game, long enough so that they can collect next months paycheck.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Of course it was
FAIL
I agree.
The time and training to get to a point that you can make enough cash and get enough skill to use tactics like Taram mentioned is just ridiculous. You have to spend a few days training the .. wait for it.. training skills (skills for learning so that you can learn more skills faster lol) to even have a shot at getting out of the area you start in in a decent amount of time. It takes weeks and weeks to accumulate enough information, reputation, cash and skills to do anything effectively. I played long enough to get into a battleship and after all that time and all that training it just didn't do it for me. The game has a certain addiction that it hard to let go of, that much I'll agree on. The worst part is the distance from the jumps to get into the gates.. there is a couple minutes at default autojump speeds from the area you jump to and the next gate. Waiting is the name of the game, long enough so that they can collect next months paycheck.
It was a lack of humity fail. His grasp of the game is flawless.
It takes weeks to be effective at what? If the goal of the game is to have fun then I was effective from the first moments I played.
Are you aware you arent forced to use auto pilot? The only time I use AP is when Im in high sec and Im going to be AFK.
I personally dont get the travel time complaints about EVE. I spend less time traveling in EVE than I ever did in M59, UO, EQ, AC, DaoC, Wow.
Of course it was
FAIL
I agree.
The time and training to get to a point that you can make enough cash and get enough skill to use tactics like Taram mentioned is just ridiculous. You have to spend a few days training the .. wait for it.. training skills (skills for learning so that you can learn more skills faster lol) to even have a shot at getting out of the area you start in in a decent amount of time. It takes weeks and weeks to accumulate enough information, reputation, cash and skills to do anything effectively. I played long enough to get into a battleship and after all that time and all that training it just didn't do it for me. The game has a certain addiction that it hard to let go of, that much I'll agree on. The worst part is the distance from the jumps to get into the gates.. there is a couple minutes at default autojump speeds from the area you jump to and the next gate. Waiting is the name of the game, long enough so that they can collect next months paycheck.
Dude
It takes MAYBE .... MAYBE... 3 weeks to have enough skills to fly a properly fitted thrasher. Or did you completely miss the part where I said I didn't even have T2 guns yet. In fact I couldn't even use T2 shield extenders (which are one of the easiest T2 items to train for btw). In fact my gunnery support skills were only trained to 3 each at the time. I was VERY low skilled when I flew that thing, pretty much a newbie. Even a T1 fitted thrasher is death on wheels to any frigate foolish enough to get anywhere near it. And it's even deadly to some cruisers.
As to learning how to fight? A person who takes the Agony Unleashed PVP 101 course will know enough about how to fly small ships to do just fine in PVP, even with a 1 week old toon. Granted more playtime generally means more experience but you don't need to be a month's old player to have learned the game if you take the time to read the forums, take the time to learn how to PVP in the game and, preferably, take the PVP 100 series courses from Agony Unleashed (or join a PVP corp and have them teach you the ropes). I know players, personally, who are less than 6 months old that are already top notch PVP'ers and rack up kills like crazy. Matter of fact one of the best PVP'ers I know was deadly even when he was only a month or so into the game flying a damn Rifter. (just over a year ago)... Now? He's one of the best PVPers in my former corp and he solos most of the time.
Seriously, learn to play the game before making statments that just make you look silly to anyone who knows what they're doing in EVE. Oh... and hint: Battleships SUCK for PVP unless you can fit them EXTREMELY well (talking full T2 tank, T2 weapons, ability to have a heavy neut (or two) in the highs and preferably the ability to remote rep). Some of them you can get away with T1 guns but even they really need T2 weapons to shine properly. To get into a well fit frig/destroyer/cruiser takes FAR less time and is, imo, a hell of a lot more fun.
As to your silly comment about autopilot: Don't autopilot. Use warp-to-zero. Takes maybe 35 seconds to 1 minute to cross an entire system if you do that. Autopilot takes ages. Especially in an improperly fit battleship. The only time I use autopilot is if I need to go do something away from the game and can leave the computer running. I set my destination, set it to safer route and let my ship go, then go off and do whatever I need to. When I get back my ship is where I needed to be and I can start playing immediately. Other than that? Use warp to zero.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell