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Open PVP.. gayness
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MMO's
PLAYING
N/A
RETIRED
Planetside
uo
swg
FFXI (only played about 20 min)
AC2
Well...If a game thats subscribers outnumbered probably the 5 biggest MMORPG's in the west is a failure (Lineage 1)
Then well...I'm afraid nothing will ever be a success in your eyes. Numbers, or more specifically, money; speak louder then words. And in this scenario, your words are as a squeak of a mouse, and NCsofts reaping of rewards from the lineage games is as the 50 megaton nuclear bomb set off in siberia.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
My colon can beat up your colon.
Originally posted by SupaFurryAni
I hate open pvp systems. I mean I play FPS online an all, dont get me wrong I like killing people but some of these open pvp systems are so utterly shite... bah you always get these asshole players who go around picking on people 50 levels lower than them for no reason other than to piss them off, bunch of bloody trolls.
Ruins communitys and if not watched can ruin games ive seen it before.
PVP needs to be semi optional new players shouldnt be victomized and it should be more than just randomly attacking somone. Lin2 and others has almost got that, the guild wars etc but I think all games should have protection for noobs I hate starting a game where the experince can be ruined by some 12 yr old assbag.
this is why AO is my pvp system of choice. A reason to pvp other than pissing other people off, rewards for individuals and guilds.. large scale decent battles, the twink system, TACTICS choices and politcis. Not just level up higher than somone else and shoot random player..
just my thoughts on the matter.
Open PvP is more commonly known as FFA PvP aka Free For All PvP. It has long ago been proven to be a failure. To players who like PvP, as well as to players who do not like PvP.
The name of the game now is Consentual PvP. Which is what all current MMORPGs with successfull PvP have. Including AO, SWG, EvE Online....... etc. Players who do not want to PvP are not forced to PvP. Players who do want to PvP, can engage in it to their hearts content. Dabblers can dabble as much as they want.
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-EVE Online !!!
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Sorry, thats just wrong.
UO was open pvp and it was a great success (it only went down after EA took over and starting to move away from open pvp).
Shadowbane is a failure beuase its a poor game. They designed a game around pvp rather than designing a good game in which pvp is just one more piece of the puzzle. Any game with too heavy a focus is poor. Crafting focus, pvp focus, etc. Its all about the well rounded package that grabs people, pulls them in, pushes them to advance and then once the players are advanced enough they start to drive the game themselves with player based politics.
Consentual PvP is a joke as it takes the thrill of pvp away. Having to watch you back sometimes, having to actually THINK (what a novel idea) before you speak and do things and go certain places puts a sense of thrill and danger into the game that really keeps people hooked.
"I wasnt gonna just ram it home. I was gonna lube it up and ease it in there inch by inch....like a gentleman." - Hank
Amen to that Opie, i agree 100 % and i know of 7 gamers who will say the same. Its not a game unless you have a challenge. AI will never be a challenge its rigid, boring, and prooves you will spend your free time on repeating a process over n over.
WAKE UP and embrace the challenge of a real thinking mind. Im sure you none Pvp´ers will agree when i say that the thing standing clearest in your mind when you try to remember something about your adventures the PK comes to mind.
And shadowbane looks and feels like its still in Alpha. PvP is not the reason why ppl refuse to play that. Its just plain sucky..
The none Pvp´er will start his character is usually the guy who starts begging for gold before he even tries to adapt to his surroundings.
Most of the open pvp games ive played have also had too little in the way of pvp content, or in fact thinking behind the reasons for pvp. Games where PKers and the odd guild war are the only pvp content are what annoy me. For me a pvp game is one that has had a great deal of though put into it, PVP that realtes to a story with rewards as opposed to penalties. Thats what I dont understand about these games that claim to be all pvp with an open system but have harsh repercussions for pvping.
consentual pvp as it was put, allows pvp to be far more rewarding and entertaining. The content can be upped and referring back to ole AO (hotdamm I love the pvp system on this game) Org content and rewards adds huge competative elements to the game. HERES where your thinking comes in, tactics, whose bases to take down realtionships with other orgs.. base size and org requirements.. the crappy but still quite fun pvp events all in line with the story and war! I love games like this were you can really get into a charater and a side because of an active role in the story.
Conquer Online, one of the worst pvp games I played. slim to nill content as far as pvp is concerned and a classic example of greifing gone wrong. Stepped out into the noob area as it where.. no less than 3 pk charaters were hanging around one hitting the people with no idea what to do etc. Not because they gained from this, simply to piss the poor noobs off, trolling in a mmorpg.
Now some arguements have gone the way of "well you can power level and get the guy back later on, its great" like the PKers gonna give a shit. A lot of these greifers have PK charaters, theres no reward for pking in conquer online not noobs anyway (shit drops).
oo boss is coming gota go!
Nothing wrong with open PvP, let there be games that feature that, but not ALL please? I just will not be playing them, not that I do not like the feature but because I do not like many of the players that feel that killing your next of kin or randomly go on a killing spree destroying someones day is FUN.
And herein lies the problem really, as I see it, PvP people want PvP in ever game that does NOT have it, cause their greatest joy is to kill thoose do not wish it, no fun in killing people that dont get mad or sad. The more harm you inflict the more fun it is, and honestly that kind of attitude disturbs me very much. And please do not tell me this is not true, cause every PvP'er and especially PK'er knows this.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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Umbrood it has nothing to do with your ruining your day. I has everything to do with the adrenalin rush when facing a human opponent in a situation where your not in full control. You want the predicable environment where you are in control because you cant deal with someone challenging the way you play.
Thus we conclude that pvp is for ppl with the ability to adapt to a new situation.
Its bs that every PK´er thrives on ruining your day, you honestly think you are that important that i want to log in and ruin your day ?
cmon !
There will allways be degrees of PK´ers some will haunt you because your being a whiner about it, some will just ignore you are not even worthy of being a prey. And finally some will hunt you just because you wearing a gay clothing.. Its freewill and you dont like it !
Its the ppl that make the mmorpg diverse and long lasting not the framework of leveling or the AI of monsters. You get killed so what ! its a game move on apply a different tactic LEARN to adapt.
sheesh i get so worked up about carebears..
no offense
Well seeing as the grasp of the difference between PK and PvP must be considered the outmost basic of adaptability I really do not understand what your are trying to say? Besause yes, every PK'er out there thrives on ruining my day, not all PvP'ers do, but the gap between the 2 playstyles is HUGE.
And calling me a carebear, well as you obviously have never met me I will not hold that against you but you are oh soo far from the truth.
Another form of LEARNING to adapt is to realise that there are different kinds of players, and people, in the world, again I would have to say that understanding this is the very basic of knwoing how to adapt, wich again leads me to believe that you do not know what that word means, either.
No I do not want a predictable environment, what I do want however is to not have my playstyle be decided by other people then me, you could call it freedom if you wish or free will, a word we obviously have different views on what it means. You see freedom works in two ways, it is not that you do to me what you wish wereas I can not do anything to you, that is freedom for YOU, not me.
Again I have nothing against PvP, i do however have much against PK, but that is another discussion. I am just saying that both PvP'ers and "carebears" should really learn to adapt, (hey there is that word again) to the fact that there will be games that caters to both. Problem is as I see it is that every game without PvP has people whining that there arent any, and game with it have people whining that there is. Wouldnt it be easier if people gathered that information BEFORE they started to play?
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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Umbrood
"Wouldnt it be easier if people gathered that information BEFORE they started to play?"
We can agree on that at least
I see your points i just dont agree with you on the point where PK´ers are just up to ruining your day.
I see that PvP and PK´ing is too different things. I just dont like to be in a vitual world where everything is arranged to fit my desire of controling the environment. I like the surprise of what other ppl do in this world. I dont want to be able to go into a zone then knowing here i must be carefull, just to step outside the zone in order to be safe again.
I cannot see how devs can cater both sides, either you can kill and get killed all around or you will have ppl abusing a system which lets you run to the safe zone and mouth off without consequence.
I belive that strife between players are the essence of mmorpgs and it should be encouraged through tools and rewards.
What i mean about adepting to your surroundings is simply to be able to adjust to the framework which does not cater to your gamestyle.
PK = Freedom
Arranged PvP = its like real life boxing aint it
funny to watch but a paradox of proportions. The only reason they fight is to get paid, they usually dont have any issues with their counterparts.
Am i making any sense at all ?
Cheers
What armor are you talking about?!? I'm not talking about the expansions crap EA made to turn UO into some kind of mindless farm fest! Geez if you couldn't afford some chainmail and platemail then you must have really been a newb. And the recall stuff isn't true either... ever heard of Paralyse? Hence, they blocked the recall option while under attack in some patch. I'm not even sure you played the game.
As for SB, the gameplay is so bad and the strategies are so linear, at least it was the case in beta.
"I am trying to see things from your perspective but I just can't get my head that far up my @$$."
"I am trying to see things from your perspective but I just can't get my head that far up my @$$."
People have got to watch the distinction between decent and scary PKer (almost role playing chars who I would admire in some games). Chars who PK AND play the game properly
And the little 12 yr old Greifing shits who make PK chars to piss people off, usually at the ole noob ground.
Why dont you carebears just get even with the 12 year olds and stop turning mmorpg into mildless dungeon hacking at no challeging mobs with your opinions ?
Its simple really, you suffer defeat the game must be wrong..
If someone changes the framework and hinders the game performance to be equal i can understand the frustration. but if you get gang banged by a few pk you really ought to find some friends who can help you out.
You cannot apply your lonewolf strategy in a mmorpg if you havent got the skills to back it up.
And yes i love the roleplaying pk as well. but that is a different discussion.
Cheers
I for one draw a huge and long line between PK and PvP, PK is player killing, (or murder) PvP is player VERSUS player, and that kinda implies that both people are in on it.
PK is to make yourself feel good and powerful by killing someone who has no means of defending themself. There is no difference in the mindset of them people from then who kicks their dog or beat up their children or woman. One take place withiun a game and one doesnot sure and there is a huge difference in reality but there is no difference in the mind of perpetrator. THAT is why hate it with a passion that is borderline to an obsession. For one who has indeed seen the darkest pits of humanity and what people are capable of doing to others I can not accept or comprehend why and how one could "just for the fun of it", make others suffer. I can not understand it when I see it in a refugee camp in one of the less fortunate places of the world were guards or officials indulge in atrocities most people could never even imagine, and laughing while doing it, and I can not understand it in a game either.
One migth think that comparing the two is ludicrous but it is not, even though the real impact of the two things are greatly different of course the minds that concieves it and does it they are not all that different.
Again not ALL games need to have PvP, ffa or consentual or whatever just to be fun.
Furthermore, most really pro-PvP people think that penalties for dieing by their hands should be HUGE, they should be able to loot all equipment and some even want the characters dead for ever. Now why would anyone want this if not so that they can make people suffer MORE?
They furiosly defend their behavior with things like "I make your gaming MORE fun by adding excitement", wereas they themself would never want that excitement from the recieving end. Adding hypocricy to an allready pretty long list of human flaws.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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Erm.. most people here (I know I certainly am) are argueing for MORE intelligent pvp content in mmorpgs. Open pvp in a lot of games ive played wasnt thought out and turns the game into your "MINDless dungeon hacking" with the occsianal random PK, which I didnt find exciting. I LOVE player verses player, I hate Asshole vs Player which is what ive experinced in most Open pvp games.
Im certainly no carebare. Ive started and ran PVP orgs/clans in games with the soul intent of being ruthless in approach to our enemies all in a RAGE if you like
. what I HATE is people being forced to enjoy this lovly open pvp content some of you guys are on about by PKers. People who pay for a game shouldnt have the game ruined by other people if they dont want to.. People might like avioding pvp completely, we all know there are weirdos like this out there. Its my opinion that the way forward is PVP with a great deal of varying content but on a consentual basis.
Couldnt agree more rentantilus.. Level is the greatest (/)?? ups of MMorpgs
Ani i fail to see the logic in controling free will in a game. When you dictate rules on how people should behave your limit everyone in their desires to have an impact on the game environment.
Be it a 12 year old ganking for fun in the newbie zone or a kewl roleplaying pk. its their choice let it stay a choice for all to choose.
Consentual pvp is just quake in another form.. its like "hi im evil can i kill you.. umm no..Oh well you know i had to ask"
You know a game is right when your heart starts pumping like mad when the evil guy appears. Its simply because something is at stake, be it some gold lost, time lost or xp lost. YOU JUST DONT WANT TO DIE.
Why on earth would a sane person remove that from a game.
Cheers
[quote]PvP is the future of all MMORPGs[/quote]...... im sure there are lots of people who dont agree, there have been lots of PvP and PvE mmorpg, its a personnal preference.
I personally prefer playing a game where there is PvP but a with a way to prevent PK. For exemple, im currently playing SoR and i think the PvP is awsome. First theres the Duels, wich can take place anywhere. If you want to duel someone, you just ask him and if he agree the fight starts. Theres also various open PvP area (Arena) and guild vs guild battle. Similar to L2, you can obtain an outpost for your guild and any guild may come to take over the outpost.
Ive played open PvP games and as a casual gamer its f...ing frustrating to get PK and loose half of the 3 hours you can be on to make up for the exp lost. If you think 1 hour 1/2 is long... you fight the dumb PKer (5 mins), die and respawn in town (3mins), walk back to a nice levelling area (can easely take up to 10-15 mins), start killing to make up for the exp lost (this can be quite long, even more if youre playing L2 and your around lvl20, lets say 30 mins to 1h) I would consider playing an open PvP game only if i had the time to be a hardcore gamer again. Anyway i would play SoR even if I still was a hardcore gamer.
Full PvP games seems to be full of kiddies, immature or just dumb people... Ever played L2 ? " I see dumb people everywhere " well the look of L2 surely had to do with this too, think Dark Elven female and people who dont even know how a real women (not from a picture) looks in the nude...
Dear Carebear,
Many of us "dumb people" would like to apoligize for ruining your single player experience. We are very sorry that we inflicted such an amount of frustration on your play style.
However you point out that you would play our game if you were a harcore player so in that statement you actually proove that the reason you hate open pvp is clearly the lack of skill
It is nice to see a carebear coming out of its cave to take a crap only to step on it on its way back.
yeah im rude.. bad me .. baaaad me..
Cheers
Dear Carebear,
Many of us "dumb people" would like to apoligize for ruining your single player experience. We are very sorry that we inflicted such an amount of frustration on your play style.
However you point out that you would play our game if you were a harcore player so in that statement you actually proove that the reason you hate open pvp is clearly the lack of skill
It is nice to see a carebear coming out of its cave to take a crap only to step on it on its way back.
yeah im rude.. bad me .. baaaad me..
Cheers
Ahh... heres the problem personified
Now only if some random developer read this post, got a clue, and took it to heart... many, many, many players would be happy. Agreed, character levels is the biggest problem.. Remove the level difference, and set the playing field equal. PvP would flourish in that environment, for all...
I know most of the peeps here never had the chance to experience JumpGate, a mmo space sim... one of the best features of this game is that a low level light fighter, can in the right hands, destroy a high level heavy fighter... purely based on player skill. I wish someone would develop a new mmo and keep that concept in mind.
Do explain Ani or didnt you get the sarcasm ?
Cheers
What armor are you talking about?!? I'm not talking about the expansions crap EA made to turn UO into some kind of mindless farm fest! Geez if you couldn't afford some chainmail and platemail then you must have really been a newb. And the recall stuff isn't true either... ever heard of Paralyse? Hence, they blocked the recall option while under attack in some patch. I'm not even sure you played the game.
As for SB, the gameplay is so bad and the strategies are so linear, at least it was the case in beta.
"I am trying to see things from your perspective but I just can't get my head that far up my @$$."
Shadowbane is a lot better than it was at release. In Shadowbane guilds can build there own cities and siege and destroy other guild's cities. You can't do that in UO. In Shadowbane there are more ways to make a character than in any other game. You are obviously the newb if you think UO is better than Shadowbane.
Actually, if you'd think one SINGLE bit, you'd find out that SB faces many problems 1- class are grossly unbalanced 2- Levels play a big role 3- Items play a role. 4- Not much player skills needed, unless you're a braindead.
Sieging was really bad when I played beta. Either it was too easy to destroy everything or it not much of a loss. They patched it so many times... at a point it took 45 mins to destroy a whole city, at another point it took 24 hours... who the hell has time to play constantly? And the timezones differences make it so dumb... raid when everyone is sleeping YAY. If you really think SB is a great game, you're one weirdo. Everyone knows it's a massive flop, especially with their Arcane Engine... bwahahahah worst Engine ever.
As for UO, it was the best game until EA bought it. A GrandMaster smith chain and plate armor cost about nothing, if you couldn't afford one, then you didn't know how to play the game, therefore you couldn't enjoy it because you're a newb, so you can't compare the PvP aspect of any of these games. Have a nice day.
"I am trying to see things from your perspective but I just can't get my head that far up my @$$."
"I am trying to see things from your perspective but I just can't get my head that far up my @$$."
[quote]However you point out that you would play our game if you were a harcore player so in that statement you actually proove that the reason you hate open pvp is clearly the lack of skill
[/quote]
LOL I just love the way you're trying to use what you learn at school in argumentation and essay to try to justify a personnal opinion by extrapolating on what i said. In that statement (LOL) i mean i WAS a hardcore gamer, but i'm now 25 years old and working full time as an engineer, so i dont have the play time i had 5 years ago. A lack of skills, i wish i could duel you, we would see whos lacking skills. Im not lacking skills im lacking play time.
The fact is : if your a hardcore gamer and you started the game at release then it would be really hard to PK you, cause your gonna be one of the highest lvls around. If your a casual gamer, you will never be one of the highest lvl so you'll get PK a lot more. No skills involved here... Even the most skilled casual gamer couldnt take a skill-less hardcore gamers because of the lvl difference.
[quote]Many of us "dumb people"[/quote] Seems like you feel concerned and probably means you are a PKer, if im wrong then what are you complaining about, i wasnt talking about you... So im assuming you are a PKer. Then please play L2, the game is just for you... im not saying all L2 player are immature but its the worst community ive seen.
PS : Sorry about the bad english, my first language is french.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979