Nice job mixing "gender sterotypes, that people and media force onto their kids" with actual psychological differences.
Sorry, but as a male feminist, this whole things deeply disturbs me.
There are actual physical and psychological differnces, and it is not someone elses fault if you are unable to accept that. Sorry to burst your bubble.
There are. But not to the extent YOU are thinking. Go on, try talking to any girl, who was raised "boyishly". Have a girlfriend like that myself, what more proof do you need?
I think you misunderstood. I myself ,was raised building forts, throwing rocks and playing in the dirt.
Has nothing to with that at all. It has to do with core thinking, process of information, and life experience. That is different than " some boys like to go shopping and some girls don't." LOL
Yeah, um... Actually, no. Women and men think and process information in the exact same way. It's just the social norms that lead them to react differently.
Listen, I involuntary jump and cover my ears, when I hear loud sounds close by. I'm prone to mannerisms a lot of people descirbed as "womanish". Last time I checked, all the plumbing is in place and I'm not (at least in a normal sense) gay.
My girlfriend, on the other hand, wears leather jackets, sits with her legs spread wide across, hates kids and mothers with a passion and one of her favourite videogames is God of War.
Okay, she likes puppies and kittens. But so do I.
Clearly we think, act and have "ilfe experiences" that fall into your worldview!
Good luck with that...
False. Women and men do Not process information the same way. It is not a matter of " worldview", it is a matter of women and men are built different and use different sections of their brains. This is not a matter of likes and dislikes, it is a matter of real physical differences that cause real neurological differences.
. "That men and women are different, everyone knows that
But, aside from external anatomical and primary and secondary sexual differences, scientists know also that there are many other subtle differences in the way the brains from men and women process language, information, emotion, cognition, etc. "
" What was once speculation is now being confirmed by scientists: the brains of women and men are different in more ways than one."
Discoveries by scientists over the past 10 years have elucidated biological sex differences in brain structure, chemistry and function. “These variations occur throughout the brain, in regions involved in language, memory, emotion, vision, hearing and navigation,” explains Larry Cahill, Ph.D., an associate professor in the Department of Neurobiology and Behavior at the University of California, Irvine.
And all of those (suspicious-looking) sites fail to remember one lesson, I learnned in biological class, back in middle school.
Human brain forms until they're late teens, or so. Thus upbringing, social standarts and peer pressure all play a great role in the formation of psyche. So... Logic!
Oh how could I forget .. that Science fails to use Logic ...IF you say so. Sorry, the debate is over. It has been scientifically proven that men and women process information different. No matter how many times you tell yourself otherwise, it doesn;t change that it is.
I grabbed the top 5 sites that came up in google... Though if you wish, you can go read the medical journals and they will tell you the exact same thing. You are in denial. See it for what it is.
300 years ago, many famous doctors would tell you, that bloodletting is the way to go. 100 years ago, Einstein's theories would be laughed away. Sometimes science does fail at basic logic, in favor of cheap publicity.
Are you seriously comparing modern brain scans to 300 yr old bloodletting? LMAO!!!! You really are deep in denial aren;t you?
Think what you will. You're still forgetting about the whole "brain forming during the early years" thing.
I don't see the point in continuing this discussion further. Howvere, am I the only one, who finds it deeply itonic, that I (a man) am arguing with yoyu (presumably, a woman), that men and women are not as different, as media and upbringing wants you to think? Basically, AGAINST sexism and double-standards? Food for thought.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Nice job mixing "gender sterotypes, that people and media force onto their kids" with actual psychological differences.
Sorry, but as a male feminist, this whole things deeply disturbs me.
There are actual physical and psychological differnces, and it is not someone elses fault if you are unable to accept that. Sorry to burst your bubble.
There are. But not to the extent YOU are thinking. Go on, try talking to any girl, who was raised "boyishly". Have a girlfriend like that myself, what more proof do you need?
I think you misunderstood. I myself ,was raised building forts, throwing rocks and playing in the dirt.
Has nothing to with that at all. It has to do with core thinking, process of information, and life experience. That is different than " some boys like to go shopping and some girls don't." LOL
Yeah, um... Actually, no. Women and men think and process information in the exact same way. It's just the social norms that lead them to react differently.
Listen, I involuntary jump and cover my ears, when I hear loud sounds close by. I'm prone to mannerisms a lot of people descirbed as "womanish". Last time I checked, all the plumbing is in place and I'm not (at least in a normal sense) gay.
My girlfriend, on the other hand, wears leather jackets, sits with her legs spread wide across, hates kids and mothers with a passion and one of her favourite videogames is God of War.
Okay, she likes puppies and kittens. But so do I.
Clearly we think, act and have "ilfe experiences" that fall into your worldview!
Good luck with that...
False. Women and men do Not process information the same way. It is not a matter of " worldview", it is a matter of women and men are built different and use different sections of their brains. This is not a matter of likes and dislikes, it is a matter of real physical differences that cause real neurological differences.
. "That men and women are different, everyone knows that
But, aside from external anatomical and primary and secondary sexual differences, scientists know also that there are many other subtle differences in the way the brains from men and women process language, information, emotion, cognition, etc. "
" What was once speculation is now being confirmed by scientists: the brains of women and men are different in more ways than one."
Discoveries by scientists over the past 10 years have elucidated biological sex differences in brain structure, chemistry and function. “These variations occur throughout the brain, in regions involved in language, memory, emotion, vision, hearing and navigation,” explains Larry Cahill, Ph.D., an associate professor in the Department of Neurobiology and Behavior at the University of California, Irvine.
And all of those (suspicious-looking) sites fail to remember one lesson, I learnned in biological class, back in middle school.
Human brain forms until they're late teens, or so. Thus upbringing, social standarts and peer pressure all play a great role in the formation of psyche. So... Logic!
Oh how could I forget .. that Science fails to use Logic ...IF you say so. Sorry, the debate is over. It has been scientifically proven that men and women process information different. No matter how many times you tell yourself otherwise, it doesn;t change that it is.
I grabbed the top 5 sites that came up in google... Though if you wish, you can go read the medical journals and they will tell you the exact same thing. You are in denial. See it for what it is.
300 years ago, many famous doctors would tell you, that bloodletting is the way to go. 100 years ago, Einstein's theories would be laughed away. Sometimes science does fail at basic logic, in favor of cheap publicity.
Are you seriously comparing modern brain scans to 300 yr old bloodletting? LMAO!!!! You really are deep in denial aren;t you?
Think what you will. You're still forgetting about the whole "brain forming during the early years" thing.
I don't see the point in continuing this discussion further. Howvere, am I the only one, who finds it deeply itonic, that I (a man) am arguing with yoyu (presumably, a woman), that men and women are not as different, as media and upbringing wants you to think? Basically, AGAINST sexism and double-standards? Food for thought.
Actually, all brains are female brains until 8 weeks after conception.
I do not watch Television, I read medical Journals. Pediatrics WAS my field. You misunderstand that it isn;t about " sexism" it is about real differences. You fail to recognize those real differences even if they have proven exactly what those are.
You confuse sexism with neuroligical differences. Even a small child has different tendencies. There are genetic, gender, AND environmental factors. Your tunnelvison on the environmental factors has made you lose sight of the gender differences. Has nothing at all to do with doublestandards. LOL
Originally posted by deviliscious It's all about the Role playing. SOme people do it, and some don't. That is the core conflict here. RP only servers are the only way to really solve the conflict, as far as I can tell.
I do miss RP servers. Do any current MMOs have them? Seems like they went out of style around the time WoW took over. Nowadays, I'm weird even just for picking a character name that sounds like an actual name, and not an AIM chat handle. Which comes back around to the type of perspective where people think playing an MMO should be akin to chatting with real people, who's genders we naturally care about.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
It's all about the Role playing. SOme people do it, and some don't. That is the core conflict here. RP only servers are the only way to really solve the conflict, as far as I can tell.
I do miss RP servers. Do any current MMOs have them? Seems like they went out of style around the time WoW took over. Nowadays, I'm weird even just for picking a character name that sounds like an actual name, and not an AIM chat handle. Which comes back around to the type of perspective where people think playing an MMO should be akin to chatting with real people, who's genders we naturally care about.
Most games DO have RP server. It's just that barely anyone RPs on them.
I regret never experiencing old-school RP...
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Psychological nuances between males and females being what they are, I still fail to see how these differences:
1) Are important enough that they should have bearing on men playing women, or vice versa.
2) Are important enough that they should prevent or allow voice masking.
3) Are important enough that the real life sex of the player should be a factor in allowing or not allowing a person to join a game organization, like a guild.
4) Are important enough that they should be given real weight as a legit reason for why a gaming guild should know a person's gender.
I will maintain that questions concerning the person who plays a character in an MMO have no real bearing on questions pertaining to playing the MMO. Therefore, such questions have no legit in-game purpose.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
At last years fanfest CCP mentioned that they would be adding voice filters in Incarna so you could alter your voice, even to sound like the opposite gender. I like this, and will most certainly use it because me avatar is female and I want her to speak accordingly. This does not mean I have secret wish of being female, but simply, that I enjoy the immersing into the life of my avatar while at the same time keep a strict separation between me and my avatar. Do you guys foresee some problems, when it becomes more natural for people to alter the voice as games implements easy access to such features, and it is no longer only done by true oddballs?
We all know inside you secretly wish to be female, it's okay.
Well, it's okay to the extent that most of us are like "Uhhh okay... as long as he doesn't talk to me."
But dont worry! There are millions of MMORPGers that also want to secretly be female, and even more that want to "do" you! But it'll be lesbian acts, so it's DEFINITELY not gay at all.
Comments
MMORPG does not equal excuse to lie.
Nice job mixing "gender sterotypes, that people and media force onto their kids" with actual psychological differences.
Sorry, but as a male feminist, this whole things deeply disturbs me.
There are actual physical and psychological differnces, and it is not someone elses fault if you are unable to accept that. Sorry to burst your bubble.
There are. But not to the extent YOU are thinking. Go on, try talking to any girl, who was raised "boyishly". Have a girlfriend like that myself, what more proof do you need?
I think you misunderstood. I myself ,was raised building forts, throwing rocks and playing in the dirt.
Has nothing to with that at all. It has to do with core thinking, process of information, and life experience. That is different than " some boys like to go shopping and some girls don't." LOL
Yeah, um... Actually, no. Women and men think and process information in the exact same way. It's just the social norms that lead them to react differently.
Listen, I involuntary jump and cover my ears, when I hear loud sounds close by. I'm prone to mannerisms a lot of people descirbed as "womanish". Last time I checked, all the plumbing is in place and I'm not (at least in a normal sense) gay.
My girlfriend, on the other hand, wears leather jackets, sits with her legs spread wide across, hates kids and mothers with a passion and one of her favourite videogames is God of War.
Okay, she likes puppies and kittens. But so do I.
Clearly we think, act and have "ilfe experiences" that fall into your worldview!
Good luck with that...
False. Women and men do Not process information the same way. It is not a matter of " worldview", it is a matter of women and men are built different and use different sections of their brains. This is not a matter of likes and dislikes, it is a matter of real physical differences that cause real neurological differences.
. "That men and women are different, everyone knows that
But, aside from external anatomical and primary and secondary sexual differences, scientists know also that there are many other subtle differences in the way the brains from men and women process language, information, emotion, cognition, etc. "
Mind and behavior -Are There Differences between the Brains of Males and Females?
" What was once speculation is now being confirmed by scientists: the brains of women and men are different in more ways than one."
Discoveries by scientists over the past 10 years have elucidated biological sex differences in brain structure, chemistry and function. “These variations occur throughout the brain, in regions involved in language, memory, emotion, vision, hearing and navigation,” explains Larry Cahill, Ph.D., an associate professor in the Department of Neurobiology and Behavior at the University of California, Irvine.
www.news-medical.net/news/2008/03/01/35810.aspx
10 Big Differences Between Men’s and Women’s Brains
He Brains, She Brains
Men's and women's brain differences affect health
Beauty and the Brain: Men and Women Process Art in Different Ways
And all of those (suspicious-looking) sites fail to remember one lesson, I learnned in biological class, back in middle school.
Human brain forms until they're late teens, or so. Thus upbringing, social standarts and peer pressure all play a great role in the formation of psyche. So... Logic!
Oh how could I forget .. that Science fails to use Logic ...IF you say so. Sorry, the debate is over. It has been scientifically proven that men and women process information different. No matter how many times you tell yourself otherwise, it doesn;t change that it is.
I grabbed the top 5 sites that came up in google... Though if you wish, you can go read the medical journals and they will tell you the exact same thing. You are in denial. See it for what it is.
Using Brain Imaging To Demonstrate Male / Female Differences
300 years ago, many famous doctors would tell you, that bloodletting is the way to go. 100 years ago, Einstein's theories would be laughed away. Sometimes science does fail at basic logic, in favor of cheap publicity.
Are you seriously comparing modern brain scans to 300 yr old bloodletting? LMAO!!!! You really are deep in denial aren;t you?
Think what you will. You're still forgetting about the whole "brain forming during the early years" thing.
I don't see the point in continuing this discussion further. Howvere, am I the only one, who finds it deeply itonic, that I (a man) am arguing with yoyu (presumably, a woman), that men and women are not as different, as media and upbringing wants you to think? Basically, AGAINST sexism and double-standards? Food for thought.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
MMORPG does not equal excuse to lie.
Nice job mixing "gender sterotypes, that people and media force onto their kids" with actual psychological differences.
Sorry, but as a male feminist, this whole things deeply disturbs me.
There are actual physical and psychological differnces, and it is not someone elses fault if you are unable to accept that. Sorry to burst your bubble.
There are. But not to the extent YOU are thinking. Go on, try talking to any girl, who was raised "boyishly". Have a girlfriend like that myself, what more proof do you need?
I think you misunderstood. I myself ,was raised building forts, throwing rocks and playing in the dirt.
Has nothing to with that at all. It has to do with core thinking, process of information, and life experience. That is different than " some boys like to go shopping and some girls don't." LOL
Yeah, um... Actually, no. Women and men think and process information in the exact same way. It's just the social norms that lead them to react differently.
Listen, I involuntary jump and cover my ears, when I hear loud sounds close by. I'm prone to mannerisms a lot of people descirbed as "womanish". Last time I checked, all the plumbing is in place and I'm not (at least in a normal sense) gay.
My girlfriend, on the other hand, wears leather jackets, sits with her legs spread wide across, hates kids and mothers with a passion and one of her favourite videogames is God of War.
Okay, she likes puppies and kittens. But so do I.
Clearly we think, act and have "ilfe experiences" that fall into your worldview!
Good luck with that...
False. Women and men do Not process information the same way. It is not a matter of " worldview", it is a matter of women and men are built different and use different sections of their brains. This is not a matter of likes and dislikes, it is a matter of real physical differences that cause real neurological differences.
. "That men and women are different, everyone knows that
But, aside from external anatomical and primary and secondary sexual differences, scientists know also that there are many other subtle differences in the way the brains from men and women process language, information, emotion, cognition, etc. "
Mind and behavior -Are There Differences between the Brains of Males and Females?
" What was once speculation is now being confirmed by scientists: the brains of women and men are different in more ways than one."
Discoveries by scientists over the past 10 years have elucidated biological sex differences in brain structure, chemistry and function. “These variations occur throughout the brain, in regions involved in language, memory, emotion, vision, hearing and navigation,” explains Larry Cahill, Ph.D., an associate professor in the Department of Neurobiology and Behavior at the University of California, Irvine.
www.news-medical.net/news/2008/03/01/35810.aspx
10 Big Differences Between Men’s and Women’s Brains
He Brains, She Brains
Men's and women's brain differences affect health
Beauty and the Brain: Men and Women Process Art in Different Ways
And all of those (suspicious-looking) sites fail to remember one lesson, I learnned in biological class, back in middle school.
Human brain forms until they're late teens, or so. Thus upbringing, social standarts and peer pressure all play a great role in the formation of psyche. So... Logic!
Oh how could I forget .. that Science fails to use Logic ...IF you say so. Sorry, the debate is over. It has been scientifically proven that men and women process information different. No matter how many times you tell yourself otherwise, it doesn;t change that it is.
I grabbed the top 5 sites that came up in google... Though if you wish, you can go read the medical journals and they will tell you the exact same thing. You are in denial. See it for what it is.
Using Brain Imaging To Demonstrate Male / Female Differences
300 years ago, many famous doctors would tell you, that bloodletting is the way to go. 100 years ago, Einstein's theories would be laughed away. Sometimes science does fail at basic logic, in favor of cheap publicity.
Are you seriously comparing modern brain scans to 300 yr old bloodletting? LMAO!!!! You really are deep in denial aren;t you?
Think what you will. You're still forgetting about the whole "brain forming during the early years" thing.
I don't see the point in continuing this discussion further. Howvere, am I the only one, who finds it deeply itonic, that I (a man) am arguing with yoyu (presumably, a woman), that men and women are not as different, as media and upbringing wants you to think? Basically, AGAINST sexism and double-standards? Food for thought.
Actually, all brains are female brains until 8 weeks after conception.
I do not watch Television, I read medical Journals. Pediatrics WAS my field. You misunderstand that it isn;t about " sexism" it is about real differences. You fail to recognize those real differences even if they have proven exactly what those are.
You confuse sexism with neuroligical differences. Even a small child has different tendencies. There are genetic, gender, AND environmental factors. Your tunnelvison on the environmental factors has made you lose sight of the gender differences. Has nothing at all to do with doublestandards. LOL
I do miss RP servers. Do any current MMOs have them? Seems like they went out of style around the time WoW took over. Nowadays, I'm weird even just for picking a character name that sounds like an actual name, and not an AIM chat handle. Which comes back around to the type of perspective where people think playing an MMO should be akin to chatting with real people, who's genders we naturally care about.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I do miss RP servers. Do any current MMOs have them? Seems like they went out of style around the time WoW took over. Nowadays, I'm weird even just for picking a character name that sounds like an actual name, and not an AIM chat handle. Which comes back around to the type of perspective where people think playing an MMO should be akin to chatting with real people, who's genders we naturally care about.
Most games DO have RP server. It's just that barely anyone RPs on them.
I regret never experiencing old-school RP...
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Psychological nuances between males and females being what they are, I still fail to see how these differences:
1) Are important enough that they should have bearing on men playing women, or vice versa.
2) Are important enough that they should prevent or allow voice masking.
3) Are important enough that the real life sex of the player should be a factor in allowing or not allowing a person to join a game organization, like a guild.
4) Are important enough that they should be given real weight as a legit reason for why a gaming guild should know a person's gender.
I will maintain that questions concerning the person who plays a character in an MMO have no real bearing on questions pertaining to playing the MMO. Therefore, such questions have no legit in-game purpose.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
To finalize this topic I just wanted to say that CCP already has implemented voice fonts as a part of their newest expansion: link.
Without Ambulation I don't think it will get much usage though, but let us see which, if any, predictions made in this thread will come true.
We all know inside you secretly wish to be female, it's okay.
Well, it's okay to the extent that most of us are like "Uhhh okay... as long as he doesn't talk to me."
But dont worry! There are millions of MMORPGers that also want to secretly be female, and even more that want to "do" you! But it'll be lesbian acts, so it's DEFINITELY not gay at all.
jk lol