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I fail to see the point of MMO soloing

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  • Dark-AsylumDark-Asylum Member Posts: 300
    Originally posted by stux


    Because they enjoy it.
    To answer you next question as to why they enjoy:
    Why do some people like pizza and others cheeseburgers?
    You can't really answer that question with anything other then they just DO.
     
    Good thing developers want everyone's money so they need to try and make games that appeal to as many people as they can.
     
     

     

    That is probably the worst analogy ever.

  • ikyle620ikyle620 Member Posts: 41

    Doing something private in a public place provides different spontaneous situations. I think the "people who prefer to solo" in an MMO are really people who would just like to play an rpg with a select small group of friends (single digits, not guilds), and when those friends aren't available, would like to play and better their characters without having to go public. The combat is relatively not important, it's just that most multiplayer rpgs don't have much depth to begin with, and there are not many morpgs as opposed to mmorpgs.

    It's kind of the same logic as to why someone would go study at a public park (or even better yet, go practice an outdoor sport by themselves). That person has decided to place his or herself in an open, public, normally-interactive enviornment, but is not looking for any public interaction. The things that can happen from doing a private activity in a public place are much different than that of doing a private activity in a private place.

    This isn't the only reason, there are definately a variety out there. Some people crave exploring a big open world, and to that the arguement would be "go play Oblivion! go play Fallout 3!". Chances are, the solo player already has. The difference between those worlds and an mmo is that there are actual people in an mmo, and even though the gameplay is without a doubt worse, the fact that there are other people (that at any given moment can be played with or against) makes the game much more extensive.

    I also enjoyed knowing there were people out there. In WoW i'd always take up herbalism and mining because i like gathering materials and selling them on the auction house, which is a completely solo activity. It wasn't hard, but it certainly wasn't useless; I was providing for the aspiring blacksmiths and alchemists of the world... of warcraft (ha ha!...). In final fantasy eleven I farmed level 1 rabbits for their meat and sold it on the auction house for good money... apparently that stuff has worth! In a single player game, you provide for no one except yourself. The lesson here would be that soloists value community.

    Soloists don't hate other people, and they certainly don't have to hate interacting with multiple people. In an mmo like WoW, I'd keep to myself. However, that wouldn't stop me from killing opposite-faction enemies or helping friendlies being attacked. For instance; i'm hopping along picking flowers (because for some reason that's fun) when I happen upon a lower level player who is being ganked. Swooping in at the right time and turning the tide of battle to save that hot elf chick (who is probably a guy) from that mutated frog is definately fun, and can't be found on a non-MMO. This little happening can occur anywhere at anytime in an MMO, which pulls back into the Private activites yield different results in a Public setting.

    So, to get right down to the question, and give an indirect  answer: "Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"

    Playing a game in an enviornment with other real people offers extremely variable and random experiences that cannot be found elsewhere. There is a sense of community and self-created identity, without the necessity to directly interact with other people.

     

    There is, however, a huge hole in your entire argument, and you even said the exact words yourself: "But why do people... Like it?"

    This will "accidently the entire can of worms". Why do people like it? I can't answer that, because likes and dislikes are insanity to begin with. Ketchup on scrambled eggs? Why do people like that? Mustard? Why do people like that? It's all subjective opinion, and what is even worse, is the fact that subjective opinion does not have to make logical objective sense. Do you love your girlfriend? Do you respect her as a woman and person? Then why would you drench her face in semen? Does that make sense? Now lets go ahead and assume it's what she wants, because she... likes it! Oh my, Why does she like it? It isn't normal to like to reduce yourself to a tool of someone elses desires (i.e. dehumanizing), but she still likes it. Maybe its the sensation of having a freshly made warm gooey substance all over your face? Does that make sense?

    So until you can explain to me what dictates subjective likes and dislikes, my official answer to the question.

    EDIT: some grammatical and spelling errors corrected

     

    TLDR; "Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"

    They Like It.

  • AcidonAcidon Member UncommonPosts: 796
    Originally posted by Goronian

    I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.

    "Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?" That's what really boggles me.

     

    I wanted to add my series of events that led to primarily soloing.  I will try to make this a short and to the point post.

    When I started playing MMORPGs years ago, I had the mindset that grouping was fun.  After all, I was playing with all these other people for the first time and not just a single player RPG.  I started a guild not long after and it only solidified my grouping mindset.

    This was all well and good until my second daughter was born.  At that point I would play while she slept.  The problem with this was, she never slept well and would wake up frequently.  At this point, I started soloing (after a time) because I hated forcing groups to wait while I was AFK all the time.

    Well the more I soloed, the more I enjoyed pushing my character to the limit to see what I could accomplish alone.  Keep in mind, during this entire time, I never stopped being *very* social.  That's my biggest draw to these games, the passive social aspect.

    Over the years, I have joined some horrible guilds and even pugs.  I would guess that this pushed my solo mindset even further.  

    The point is, I started out loving groups.  I started soloing out of necessity.  I ended up really enjoying myself while soloing.  But, again, I never lost the desire for the overall social aspect.

    That's why I solo in MMO games.  Plus the fact that I can pick and choose what I do, when I do it, and for how long I do it.  Every single time i play.

    That's just me.

    Acidon

  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662
    Originally posted by Dark-Asylum

    Originally posted by stux


    Because they enjoy it.
    To answer you next question as to why they enjoy:
    Why do some people like pizza and others cheeseburgers?
    You can't really answer that question with anything other then they just DO.
     
    Good thing developers want everyone's money so they need to try and make games that appeal to as many people as they can.
     
     

     

    That is probably the worst analogy ever.

    Whether you like the analogy or not, he's still right though.  You don't HAVE to understand why.  If you don't understand it just accept that people have their reasons, and those reasons are as valid as anyone elses and leave it at that.  Everyone has to respect others choices in such matters.  Thankfully MMO devs have realised that.

    Personally I'm thankful that the devs don't subscribe to the myopic view of some MMO players who don't understand soloing in an MMO and are absolutely convinced that the second M in MMO means grouping.  It doesn't.  It means Multiplayer i.e. multple persons playing the same game at the same time.  That is it.  Period.  Nothing more.  Which means Bob can happily go and group with others, Sally can go raiding with others and Bernard can solo to his hearts content.....all together on the same game at the same time.

  • SoludeSolude Member UncommonPosts: 691

    To the OP...

    Big difference between like and prefer.

    Do I like soloing versus the alternative of sitting idle for possibly months at a time because I cannot progress without a solid, full group?  Well ya, who including you doesn't.  This is in part what killed EQ and EQ2 shortly after launch, group play with no players in your level range.  Go try grouping in an established game  in those mid levels, near impossible.  With solo play a new player and alts can advance to where people are.  Also why WoW's slow release schedule is casual friendly... you can catch up even years later.  In EQ even active players could not keep up with the content and just kept getting further and further behind the top end.

    Long story short... solo is required for those times when groups just aren't coming together.  We don't all have 24 friends on speed dial who play our favorite MMO at our beckon call ;)

  • ikyle620ikyle620 Member Posts: 41
    Originally posted by Tarka

    Originally posted by Dark-Asylum

    Originally posted by stux


    Because they enjoy it.
    To answer you next question as to why they enjoy:
    Why do some people like pizza and others cheeseburgers?
    You can't really answer that question with anything other then they just DO.
     
    Good thing developers want everyone's money so they need to try and make games that appeal to as many people as they can.
     
     

     

    That is probably the worst analogy ever.



     

    He's right though.  You don't HAVE to understand why.  Just accept that people have their reasons, and those reasons are as valid as anyone elses.  Thankfully MMO devs have realised that.

    I'm agreeing with this statement here. Nobody has to understand something to have that something happen. It just happens.

  • chriselchrisel Member UncommonPosts: 990

    I fail to understand why people who loves to group care so much about those who enjoy to solo. I NEVER played any MMO that forces you to solo. I do have played more than enough games that forces players to solo though... and we all see how "popular" they are.

    To me, it is a mystery, that people will play with one unknown moron after the other; putting their whole destiny into other peoples hands whether they will leave, or heck, even show up to the group at the right time. Oh and not let us forget all the "leet" attutudes amongs the group players; always urging after someone to replace the groups weakest link...

    Well, that is not my flavor. I prefer soloing in a living MMO world, at least to end level. MMO's that forces people to group, are dead, history, finito & nada. If you are so dead keen on grouping, maybe Dungeons & Dragons Online would be the best MMO for you...? Oh, that game is dead, isnt it...? So errr, better find another one then.

    Why does groupers care so much about those who like to solo after all? Why cant them who enjoys grouping just, well, group up, and have their happy time together...?

    Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!

  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662

    A further point to add is that not everything in an MMO is centred around group play.  Take crafting for instance, or harvesting or buying and selling stuff on the trade house / auction house / market / whatever or even just talking to people in the chat channels / tells.  The common factor in all these activities are that 1) the player is in fact doing things "solo" 2) they are in fact interacting with other players to a greater or lesser extent (depending on their own choice).  So in actual fact, solo activities have been integral to MMO's for quite some time now.  All of these are perfectly "normal" activities in an MMO and more often than not they don't actually require you to be in a group to do them (unless you're mining in a hostile environment like Eve ;)

    So solo'ing in an MMO isn't as weird as some make it sound.

  • satojinsatojin Member Posts: 125

    I enjoy soloing in MMOs, or at least the ability to solo, because sometimes I don't feel like playing with others. And often playing with others is quite vexing especially if they're strangers. But just because I like to solo doesn't mean I'm plenty happy with offline RPGs. I like an economy driven by players and I like knowing that I have a character that's worth something (even if that worth is not monetary).

  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662
    Originally posted by chrisel


    I fail to understand why people who loves to group care so much about those who enjoy to solo. I NEVER played any MMO that forces you to solo. I do have played more than enough games that forces players to solo though... and we all see how "popular" they are.
    To me, it is a mystery, that people will play with one unknown moron after the other; putting their whole destiny into other peoples hands whether they will leave, or heck, even show up to the group at the right time. Oh and not let us forget all the "leet" attutudes amongs the group players; always urging after someone to replace the groups weakest link...
    Well, that is not my flavor. I prefer soloing in a living MMO world, at least to end level. MMO's that forces people to group, are dead, history, finito & nada. If you are so dead keen on grouping, maybe Dungeons & Dragons Online would be the best MMO for you...? Oh, that game is dead, isnt it...? So errr, better find another one then.
    Why does groupers care so much about those who like to solo after all? Why cant them who enjoys grouping just, well, group up, and have their happy time together...?

    The traditional "pecking order" for rewards in MMO's has previously been Raid > Group > Solo. 

    However, over the last few years some players (and devs for that matter) have begun to question this.  For instance, solo'ers sometimes ask for access to the same level of rewards as groups or raids (with necessary adjustments to how / when they are obtained). And some group / raid fans cannot understand the more logical proposals used to argue for such an allowance. I'm not going to get into the details of the justifications because that would REALLY open the metaphorical "can of worms" in this thread.  Suffice it to say that that's where the "Casual vs Hardcore", "Raiders vs Group vs Solo'ers" and "Risk vs Reward" arguments start.

  • IrishIrish Member UncommonPosts: 259

    "I understand the necessity of solo. Yes, it's unavoidable, since most people don't want to group with strangers. But why do people... Like it?"

    Without a whole bunch of explanation on a subject that has been more than well covered- I like to solo because I can go at my own pace, and have no responsibility to a group. If I want responsibility, I'll head back to work. There, I can be told what to do and be paid for it, instead of paying to be told what to do, and how to enjoy myself.

  • frumbertfrumbert Member Posts: 190
    Originally posted by Irish


    "I understand the necessity of solo. Yes, it's unavoidable, since most people don't want to group with strangers. But why do people... Like it?"

    Probably they don't, but then some games don't offer any alternative. It's "group to take down mob 123X or don't level - you choose".

    Forum signatures are stupid and annoying. I've turned mine off.

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Member Posts: 1,214
    Originally posted by Goronian


     I seriously do. Look, this is not a flame thread. This is something, of a big question to the people, who play solo.
    Why? What draws you in?
    See... Let's be honest here. MMORPG's, as games in themselves... Kinda suck. They're repetetive, drawn-out, barely offer a coherent story and their fighting system is a droll. I can get a bazillion times more enjoyment from about any solid C/JRPG, released in the last 15 years. The point is... They are, in their core, better. Cheaper, even, especially in the long run. The time it takes to solo a char to the cap in a modern MMO is about the same, as the time it would take you to beat, say, Baldur's Gate. But with Baldur's Gate you're at least rewarded with a cutscene and some closure to the story. 
    I understand the necessity of solo. Yes, it's unavoidable, since most people don't want to group with strangers. But why do people... Like it?
    P.S. Let's try to keep things civil, people. We can have an interesting discussion, if we try to keep our bile from spilling.
     
    EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.

    "Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"

     

    MMORPG's NOW suck. Sure, in the days of EQ, where I started my MMO adventures WERE repetitive as they are today (As far as quests and combat), but IMO they also had a more open world than today's  linear, funneled pathing MMO's.

    But at the same time, the fights were somewhat fun just in the fact that if you lost it meant something. You lost xp, possibly a level if not very far into your current level, and had to run back to your corpse to drag it to a safe area and loot it of all your items. Not just automatically spawn at a safe spot in tact with a measely rezz penalty. Although you COULD solo, it was tough and you actually HAD TO KNOW your class and how to use strategy to do well when doing so.

    I enjoy soloing because sometimes you just feel like playing alone, or need a break from raids or groups for awhile.

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Member Posts: 1,214
    Originally posted by Bagguns

    Originally posted by Frostbite05


    To put it simply people like and enjoy playing solo because they don't have to rely on others to get the job done. One of the most dreaded things in MMO's is the pug. They more or less end with someone pissed off halfway through a quest or whatever then break apart. When you solo its all you. You can make sure it gets done with a much higher chance then if you are relying on others to do it.

     

    I disagree. 

    One of the things I like most about mmos is the PUG.  Most of the time I always have fun in them, even if they do fail.   Unless you get someone in there that is a complete tard, then they do suck.

     

    Agree. Also the point that MMORPG's are for playing WITH and around other players. That is what separates them from console games and single-player PC games. PUG's can be fun...they also are informative....meaning you can learn through the experience of them what players are good and know their respective classes and know you want to remember them for future groups, and those that aren't very good, or are known ninja looters, etc that you blacklist.

     

    Without doing PUG's you never know because you always use the same group..which means waiting for those players to get online, or never getting to really know your server's community very well. Which in turn can make you lose interest in said MMO quicker because you get bored looking for groups from the small list of players you DO know because you aren't taking the time to test the waters and get a large selection of known players to choose from. IMO of course...plus this is a problem I see with today's MMO's. Too many players seem to think it's a rat race to get to "end game", or get any of the "server firsts" to gain e-fame...treating MMO's as console games.

  • madeuxmadeux Member Posts: 1,786
    Originally posted by Goatgod76

    Originally posted by Bagguns

    Originally posted by Frostbite05


    To put it simply people like and enjoy playing solo because they don't have to rely on others to get the job done. One of the most dreaded things in MMO's is the pug. They more or less end with someone pissed off halfway through a quest or whatever then break apart. When you solo its all you. You can make sure it gets done with a much higher chance then if you are relying on others to do it.

     

    I disagree. 

    One of the things I like most about mmos is the PUG.  Most of the time I always have fun in them, even if they do fail.   Unless you get someone in there that is a complete tard, then they do suck.

     

    Agree. Also the point that MMORPG's are for playing WITH and around other players. That is what separates them from console games and single-player PC games. PUG's can be fun...they also are informative....meaning you can learn through the experience of them what players are good and know their respective classes and know you want to remember them for future groups, and those that aren't very good, or are known ninja looters, etc that you blacklist.

     

    Without doing PUG's you never know because you always use the same group..which means waiting for those players to get online, or never getting to really know your server's community very well. IMO of course.

     

    I solo alot, but I much prefer a PUG to an organized RAID.  PUG's can be a blast.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Member UncommonPosts: 4,641
    Originally posted by Toquio3


    If you dont like to solo, then you dont need to see the point. ill just say this: its a personal choice. you like certain things, other people like different things. does this sound too hard to compute?

     

    I love this response.

     

    We are NOT all the same. We do not all play games the same way. We do not all ENJOY the same things. Choices....are GOOD.

     

    I personally solo sometimes because it's part of roleplaying for me. I'm also a crafter. If I'm playing a role in a game and I'm a carpenter....how likely is it that my character would take someone with them to work?  Meaning....I have to go harvest a lot of woods and metals in a zone with a lot of aggro. So.....should I GROUP to go to "work?"  That's just not how I "see" my character.

     

    That is only one reason to "solo." There are plenty of good reasons. Another reason I sometimes solo is because it's relaxing "alone time" for me to just enjoy my game of choice, and another....is that I have to play odd hours due to my RL work schedule.

     

    You really shouldn't be so presumptuous as to tell others they "must group," OP. They pay their own monthly gaming bill and they're not breaking any game rules by choosing to do this, ya know?

     

    And....the "reason" that MMOs are my genre of choice (and more precisely mmoRPGs) is because I like the feeling of being a part of a "living, breathing, growing 'world'" in my games. A place where things are "happening" and I can get involved in those "things," or....I can do a cornucopia of OTHER things!  There is variety. I like games with variety that don't FORCE me to solo all the time, but nor do they force me to group ALL the time. There are options to choose from many different things to do at any given time.

     

     

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Member UncommonPosts: 4,641
    Originally posted by Midare


    Frostbite had some good points, self-reliance and avoiding unreliable players (basically the same thing) but one could say that self reliance and not needing to rely on others could be fulfilled in a solo RPG that isn't online.
     
    While I myself am not a solo-player, I have a close friend who is. I've actually had this discussion with him rather recently. The point we come down to is that a MMOG's "world" extends beyond just the grouping and questing. There is interaction with people in the towns, supporting newer players, chatting with friends while you go about your business, and other social involvement.
     
    His big attraction is game economies, he's a business geek, he loves essentially farming for materials and pushing the extremes of the market. Learning how a particular game's market flows is fun for him, and that is what he likes about MMOGs. That is what he enjoys, and something which this genre provides better than a solo game can... since the solo game would be static as he is the only factor in any market a solo game provides. It is far more interesting, for him, to compete against others for resources, to fuck with the economy to make a better profit for himself.
     
    That's one reason people who solo "content" may play an MMOG.

     

    Actually....you gave more than one reason. :)

     

    I found myself and one of my friends in your post too.

     

    I'm one of those high levels that enjoys going to the newbie zones, not to "gank" people or be an ass....but to show them what they have to look forward to, to help them find things if they're lost, to show them around if they want some introduction, and to make sure they know that if they have any questions or anything...I'll try to help, and if I can't...I'll try to get someone that can...stuff like that.  I LIKE that big sister social thing. :) I don't force any of it on anyone, of course, but I just simply go to those zones sometimes to just wave and say hi and see if anyone needs anything. To me....that's fun.  And I do it solo, because most people have absolutely less than zero interest in doing it WITH me...lol.

     

    Fact of the matter is, most of us probably play MMOs because there is something about the social aspect of it, or competitive aspect of it (competition is ALSO social), that interests us. BUT.....we don't all have to play the game the SAME WAY.  Like in RL....variety makes virtual life INTERESTING.

     

    I have a friend that loves to play the broker (auction house). She loves doing that...to her, it's competitive and interesting. I...find it terribly boring. But I'm not paying her gaming bills. :) And....when we DO group to quest or run an instance....she's very competent as a teammate. But it certainly doesn't mean she must be a "teammate" 24/7.

     

    Do any of us "group" in real life all the time?  Or do most of us enjoy a little solitude sometimes?  Yeah....simple.

     

     

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • ZarluneZarlune Member Posts: 1
    Originally posted by Midare


    Frostbite had some good points, self-reliance and avoiding unreliable players (basically the same thing) but one could say that self reliance and not needing to rely on others could be fulfilled in a solo RPG that isn't online.
     
    While I myself am not a solo-player, I have a close friend who is. I've actually had this discussion with him rather recently. The point we come down to is that a MMOG's "world" extends beyond just the grouping and questing. There is interaction with people in the towns, supporting newer players, chatting with friends while you go about your business, and other social involvement.
     
    His big attraction is game economies, he's a business geek, he loves essentially farming for materials and pushing the extremes of the market. Learning how a particular game's market flows is fun for him, and that is what he likes about MMOGs. That is what he enjoys, and something which this genre provides better than a solo game can... since the solo game would be static as he is the only factor in any market a solo game provides. It is far more interesting, for him, to compete against others for resources, to fuck with the economy to make a better profit for himself.
     
    That's one reason people who solo "content" may play an MMOG.
     
     

     I understand where your friend is coming from, mostly, at least.

     

    I play my games solo for the most part, not because I don't like interacting with people (although it feels like I'm finding less and less people I'd want to interact with these days), but because I like going my own pace and doing things my own way. One of the things that I do, is farm/mine/scavenge/explore. In a group, I have a hard time justifying taking my time and wandering off in a random direction because I see what may be a gathering node of one sort or another, but when I'm soloing, I can take my time to do anything I want.

    I also _love_ to play with the economics of MMOs. I spend most of my time playing the Auction Houses, buying low and selling high, so to speak, and making money. For a while, I even had a loan service in my guild in WoW, for guildies who were just a little bit short for their mounts.

    There's a lot of reasons to prefer soloing, and just because I solo 99% of the time doesn't mean I'm not chatting with people (some of which I've moved from game to game with) or I'm not in a guild, or on vent, it just means I prefer to play by myself until a situation comes up that I need someone's help on. Less competition for scraps, that way.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081

    It's because of the chat system !!!!

    All typed chat systems are a model of the same for all mmo's,  WoW's chat system is about the best you can have.  I don't think you could even make it better.

    MMO quest are standard for all games, They are riddles and locations are made to use land marks to find them. You also have to type things" like did you kill all 10 rats ? ", or  "did you get all 5 rocks?" or " did you do parts 2 and 3 of the quest ?" This can be very aggravating to type.  People are afraid to add ppl. to their group because they may not know the game well or can't type.

    What needs to be done:

    Voice chat, not the crappy Wow chat.   But free clear voice chat when you enter a group or guild such as Ventrilo, but someone has to pay for Ventral out of their own pocket coupled with the fact that at random people cant use it because you have to change the IP address. You can't pass the IP address around to everyone anyway because the payer only gets so many slots, you cant give it to every stranger you meet !

    I'm guessing WoW does not fix their voice chat because they don't like people using it, because they don't like to pay for more bandwith.

    People are screaming for fresh ideas........  Well make an mmo with real voice chat !!

    So I just answered the question.

     

  • VendegaarVendegaar Member Posts: 30

    More of the same arguments from people who want everyone to be FORCED to play in groups.

     

    My reasons for playing EXCLUSIVELY SOLO - which I have posted before on other threads.

    1.  I have been playing for over three years now and have yet to have any of my troops high enough to where I can generate a Death Knight. Speed in leveling is NOT one of my priorities.

    2.   I am a HOPELESS altoholic - I have almost 100 toons under TWO accounts on WOW.  If i want to try some new class, race or talent combination I will generate a new toon - even if I have to delete a mid 40s level toon to do it.

    3.   If I want to spend an hour or two grinding up a profession (mining, herbalism, etc) or secondary profession (fishing, cooking, etc.) I can do so without a bunch of idiots bitching at me about holding up THEIR progress. I frankly DO NOT GIVE A CRAP about THEIR progress.

    4.   Soloing is the ONLY way a player can REALLY learn how to play a class.  You quickly learn ALL the strengths and weaknesses of the class - something that can NEVER be learned in groups just fulfilling a small predetermined group niche.

    5.   I DO NOT buy the argument that Massivly Multiplayer Onilne gaming means that the intent is that players MUST play in groups. I engage with the other players on line thru the Auction House and in other manners.

    6.   This game has a far larger world than any single player game.  I play for enjoyment - not to see how fast I can finish the game.

    7.  I have played in groups and have been ripped off by people who formed them in order to get the goodies that THEY wanted in a instance - and then hearthed out leaving me in the middle of the mob. when they got what they wanted.

    8.   I PAY MY OWN MONTHLY FEES FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF PLAYING THE GAME. If someone else wants me to play THEIR way they can pay my fees for me - until then don't bitch about how I play.

  • TsukieUTsukieU Member Posts: 559
    Originally posted by Vendegaar


    More of the same arguments from people who want everyone to be FORCED to play in groups.
     
    Hypocrisy is bad kids...mmkay?
     
    My reasons for playing EXCLUSIVELY SOLO - which I have posted before on other threads.
    1.  I have been playing for over three years now and have yet to have any of my troops high enough to where I can generate a Death Knight. Speed in leveling is NOT one of my priorities.
     
    Ok then, I suppose you just suck then?  My 12 year old niece got to 60-something inside 3 months and she is limited to an hour of game-time every other day.
    Ironically, she plays the game better than I do.
     
    2.   I am a HOPELESS altoholic - I have almost 100 toons under TWO accounts on WOW.  If i want to try some new class, race or talent combination I will generate a new toon - even if I have to delete a mid 40s level toon to do it.
     
    Ok....
     
    3.   If I want to spend an hour or two grinding up a profession (mining, herbalism, etc) or secondary profession (fishing, cooking, etc.) I can do so without a bunch of idiots bitching at me about holding up THEIR progress. I frankly DO NOT GIVE A CRAP about THEIR progress.
     
    I am still failing to see why grouping is bad here.  You, like many of the other 'solo' enthusiasts make the assumption that 'grouping'  enthusiasts want to completely eliminate any solo element.  We simply want there to be a reason for grouping to be desirable.  As it is now, games 'allow' grouping.  But the way the games are designed it's counter-productive to group.
     
    4.   Soloing is the ONLY way a player can REALLY learn how to play a class.  You quickly learn ALL the strengths and weaknesses of the class - something that can NEVER be learned in groups just fulfilling a small predetermined group niche.
     
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
     
    Oh...ahah...ehh..eheh...hoo....wait...sh**, you're serious?
    I can't count on both hands and feet how many idiots I've ran into in the high level instances that didn't know their class from a hole in the ground.  Largely in-part because they never grouped in their entire career with anyone.
     
    5.   I DO NOT buy the argument that Massivly Multiplayer Onilne gaming means that the intent is that players MUST play in groups. I engage with the other players on line thru the Auction House and in other manners.
     
    So...by online interaction...you just want the people to be there.  But you don't really want to have to do any nasty, uh what do you call it...INTERACTING.
    You want to play a game by yourself, but have a large group of people to support your time playing without having to give anything back to them.  What a selfish mindset.
     
    6.   This game has a far larger world than any single player game.  I play for enjoyment - not to see how fast I can finish the game.
     
    And why can't this be done with say, 1 or more other people as well?
     
    7.  I have played in groups and have been ripped off by people who formed them in order to get the goodies that THEY wanted in a instance - and then hearthed out leaving me in the middle of the mob. when they got what they wanted.
     
    Yes, and if there was an emphasis on grouping...those actions would be scorned heavily.   As it stands now people get away with crap like that because they can.  There are no reprocussions, because they can do it, then continue playing the game by themselves without want or worry of what others think.
    Whereas in a game like FF11, if the same jackhole did something like that.   They'd be immidiately blacklisted by almost the entire server.  Their progression would come to a dead halt.
     
    8.   I PAY MY OWN MONTHLY FEES FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF PLAYING THE GAME. If someone else wants me to play THEIR way they can pay my fees for me - until then don't bitch about how I play.
     
    As long as you don't bitch about how I want to play either.  I pay my own monthly fees for my privilege as well.  So what?  Am I SOL, because your 15$ is more important than mine?
     
    Again, hypocrisy is bad kids...mmkay?

     

    Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.

  • KalvasflammKalvasflamm Member Posts: 48
    Originally posted by Goronian


     EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.

    "Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"



     

    I havn't read the whole thread, so maybe already mentioned.

    But why is it, that everyone seems to assume that MMOs should be about playing WITH each other? 

    I don't like to be forced to group. When I get back from work, I like to have a few hours in "peace" doing my stuff. I talk on the phone, in meetings, with colleagues the whole day. When I get home I like silence! In groups there is always some kind of hectic, killing monsters together, paying attention what the others do, typing the same time, answer whispers etc. And I surely do not like coming home, getting on teamspeak, hearing kids 20 youngers than I am talking about chicks etc.

    Why can't people understand that I choose MMOs over single player games because I also like playing AGAINST each other? I can't PvP in a singler player game. Period! NPCs are way to predictable, even when I am not pvping. When I get into a large city in an MMO, I simply enjoy people doing all kind of different things. Man, I play computer games for more than 25 years now, I think there is not single NPC reaction I haven't learned about yet.

    Play in groups if you like, get in guilds, even meet new friends - I totally understand.

    But leave me in peace with this "MMOs are not for soloing"-crap.

  • sfc1971sfc1971 Member UncommonPosts: 421

    Not all MMO players are the same.

    The EQ/WoW/Lotro player prefers an element of tactics perhaps even strategy in their game. For me the top class of strategy is the Lotro Captain class. He/she has a skill that allows TWO fallen to be resurrected. So, do you use it the moment someone falls or wait a sec because another member is about to fall and you can use the skill fully? Wait to long and the first player can't be rezzed anymore, or your entire party might not survive both players going down.

    You have last stand, and in harms ways, which makes you unable to die for 30 secs and aborb all damage from the group. VERY powerful, but at the end you are near death (you do take damage, you just don't die) and you the cooldown is huge. So do you use it NOW when the shit has hit the fan or risk waiting for when things are even worse.

    Champions Online is far simpler, 1 auto-attack that build power, hit special whenever you got power, hit block whenever an icon flashes. Very little thinking required, but lots of action. 

    Some players prefer lots of story to immerse them into the game world, others think all dialog is there to be clicked through as fast as possible to get to the killing bits. 

    Some think MMO's are about working together, for others it is a way to climb a ranking board or show what goodies they managed to collect, competing with other players for the top spot.

    Solo players tend to be the ones who see the game as competition. To them it is the destination that matters, not the journey. It is a valid play form although Solo players as clients tend to be very fickle always chasing the latest and greatest.

    Group players tend to take things slower, they play healer or support classes because they want to work with others to overcome a challenge and part of that challenge is finding the group. They enjoy the social interaction needed to organize a group. I do. It is fun to get a huge group together out of nothing and defeat an instance as a well oiled fighting machine.

    It is a different way of playing and the difference is nothing new. Solo players preferred FPS multiplayer in deathmatch mode, group players prefer COOP mode. Again, both perfectly valid game formats.

    The problem arises when the two groups end up in one game and start pulling in both their directions. As a group player I am of course biased in thinking that a lot of solo players show a lack of social skills and basically will demand everything can be soloed because they nobody wants to play with them.

    Imagine if soccer became a solo sport. But hey, there are solo-yacht races and group-yacht races. 

    We should just let each other be and accept that some games will just not be right for us. Unfortunally, that is not human nature. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • sfc1971sfc1971 Member UncommonPosts: 421
    Originally posted by Kalvasflamm

    Originally posted by Goronian


     EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.

    "Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"



     

    I havn't read the whole thread, so maybe already mentioned.

    But why is it, that everyone seems to assume that MMOs should be about playing WITH each other? 

    I don't like to be forced to group. When I get back from work, I like to have a few hours in "peace" doing my stuff. I talk on the phone, in meetings, with colleagues the whole day. When I get home I like silence! In groups there is always some kind of hectic, killing monsters together, paying attention what the others do, typing the same time, answer whispers etc. And I surely do not like coming home, getting on teamspeak, hearing kids 20 youngers than I am talking about chicks etc.

    Why can't people understand that I choose MMOs over single player games because I also like playing AGAINST each other? I can't PvP in a singler player game. Period! NPCs are way to predictable, even when I am not pvping. When I get into a large city in an MMO, I simply enjoy people doing all kind of different things. Man, I play computer games for more than 25 years now, I think there is not single NPC reaction I haven't learned about yet.

    Play in groups if you like, get in guilds, even meet new friends - I totally understand.

    But leave me in peace with this "MMOs are not for soloing"-crap.

    But then pick the right game, free-for-all PvP. Stay away from the likes of EQ/WoW/Lotro/SWTOR because these are not the games for you. 

     

    Would you join a soccer team considering your anti-social desires? No. I wouldn't even recommend tennis. go excersise in a gym with an iPod on.

     

  • NeverbladeNeverblade Member Posts: 23
    Originally posted by Goronian


     I seriously do. Look, this is not a flame thread. This is something, of a big question to the people, who play solo.
    Why? What draws you in?
    See... Let's be honest here. MMORPG's, as games in themselves... Kinda suck. They're repetetive, drawn-out, barely offer a coherent story and their fighting system is a droll. I can get a bazillion times more enjoyment from about any solid C/JRPG, released in the last 15 years. The point is... They are, in their core, better. Cheaper, even, especially in the long run. The time it takes to solo a char to the cap in a modern MMO is about the same, as the time it would take you to beat, say, Baldur's Gate. But with Baldur's Gate you're at least rewarded with a cutscene and some closure to the story. 
    I understand the necessity of solo. Yes, it's unavoidable, since most people don't want to group with strangers. But why do people... Like it?
    P.S. Let's try to keep things civil, people. We can have an interesting discussion, if we try to keep our bile from spilling.
     
    EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.

    "Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"
     
    I prefer to play mostly solo on my grind to max in any game.  The promise of being an invincible fighter set to help change the course of history is enough for me.  Plus, I like to explore by myself and take my time.

     

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