EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"
Hiya,
I love to solo because it is too stressful to have to log out suddenly if I'm in a pug/group. Real life comes first and when my daughter, husband, elderly pets, elderly parents and in-laws need me- I log out instantly.
I play MMO's because I like an evolving world. I get new areas and quests every few months in my MMO to keep things exciting:)
Fair enough. Why can't we have more level-headed responses like that?
Because we're on the MMORPG.com forums. Are you well acquainted with these forums? lol
I solo because i hate whinny kids,fighting over loot that ppl dont need,the lame a$$ chat talking about last nights dinner ect ect,plain and simple dealing with a$$ hats in general.......So i guess im kinda antisocial at times and just like to be alone with me time lol............i also like to solo because i can go at my own pace and go afk when ever i feel to do so.......I dont need or want to be rushed to the next mission/quest just for the group to split apart if some one is not fast enough......Anyways thats just my 2 cents on why i love to solo
My personal take on soloing in MMORPGS is its like sex vs masturbation. Sure it is much more satifying with another person but it is far more conveinient to just "sort yourself out".
I would say then masturbation or sex in at least 5 if you want to put it this way. :-))
regarding a few posts above, I think that mmos are "just" a game, but being just a game is no excuse to suck at it, expecially when youre max level. And by sucking I dont mean not being the best. Telling someone to stay out of the fire, and then seeing them dieing because they didnt is annoying, to say the least.
Anyway, I too prefer to solo, for all the reasons that everyone keeps posting.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Soloing lets you play how you want to, when you want to however that is not normally the main reason for it.
The main reason people want to solo in a MMO is the same reason that people want to play MMO's
People.
I have grouped with some great people and I have grouped with people that I have wanted to strangle.
The great ones are helpful, respectful and are out to achieve the main goal of the game...fun.
The awful ones are bossy, rude, petty, childish, etc etc etc. They regularly tell others how to play, what to do, where to go and become the largest fun suck in the game. It is beyond belief to them that people want to play the game and learn how to get thru it on their own. Unable to limit themselves to offering advice they begin escalated behavior when others do not lockstep to their demands. It is no surprise that a great many of these are "achievers" who in their own mind are truly a legend. They feel that their eliteness gives them carte blanche to behave like the biggest tools in any situation or group they are in.
This singular group if harness and weaponized could end every war worldwide simultaneously.
Because of them soloing will end up being in every game because even Devs don’t want to have to spend time with these people.
[sigh] another "I don't understand solo-er's" thread. On behalf of all solo-ers: We don't care if you get it. Sometimes - we don't get the groupers. We just wanna play to.
Then play a single player RPG, yes? Don't get me wrong, I've soloed quite a bit in the past several years, but I was raised on a game where I hated soloing. Soloing should always be there as an option, but grouping should be encouraged. Not forced grouping, but grouping should have large benefits over soloing.. This is what MMORPGs were all about. You could solo in EverQuest, it was just slow. That's why EQ is considered a real social MMO and WoW is not. If you wanna run through your own personal bubble with 1 or 2 real life friends, there's Diablo.
People are probably bad at grouping now simply because it is so uncommon, which is said when grouping in a multiplayer game is the untrodden path. "But you can group if you want to, you have that option!" Given the choice, people will choose the easier path, always, and that is soloing, because the casual kiddie games are designed around it.
I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers.
I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game.
That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play).
So why give a shit?
Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo.
Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than them for fun.
[sigh] another "I don't understand solo-er's" thread. On behalf of all solo-ers: We don't care if you get it. Sometimes - we don't get the groupers. We just wanna play to.
Then play a single player RPG, yes?
No.
What you gonna do about it? Oh thats right, theres nothing you CAN do to force me to "go play a single player rpg" now is there?
tough noodles to you.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
[sigh] another "I don't understand solo-er's" thread. On behalf of all solo-ers: We don't care if you get it. Sometimes - we don't get the groupers. We just wanna play to.
Then play a single player RPG, yes? Don't get me wrong, I've soloed quite a bit in the past several years, but I was raised on a game where I hated soloing. Soloing should always be there as an option, but grouping should be encouraged. Not forced grouping, but grouping should have large benefits over soloing.. This is what MMORPGs were all about. You could solo in EverQuest, it was just slow. That's why EQ is considered a real social MMO and WoW is not. If you wanna run through your own personal bubble with 1 or 2 real life friends, there's Diablo.
Why do MMO's have to be about grouping anyway? That would be my question. At any rate - I am perfectly fine with groups earning enhanced whatever - so long as all content is available to all paying customers. I've said before that D2 had a good mechanic for encouraging grouping by simply increasing drop rates on items. I can enjoy the same content as your group - but you will get better items, quicker then I will. Win-Win.
By the way... your statement about EQ being a "real" social MMO is purely opinion. I used to solo EQ - I used to group in FFXI. I want the option to do either with success in the same game.
I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers. I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game. That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play). So why give a shit? Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo. Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than then for fun. Its a pretty limited game style choice. Why give them a hardtime?
I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game.
My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage.
We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.
That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.
That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.
I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers. I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game. That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play). So why give a shit? Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo. Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than then for fun. Its a pretty limited game style choice. Why give them a hardtime?
I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game.
My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage.
We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.
That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.
That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.
My issue is not with solo-ing being harder - I'm fine with that. The problem is when content is simply not doable for solo-ers.
I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers. I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game. That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play). So why give a shit? Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo. Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than then for fun. Its a pretty limited game style choice. Why give them a hardtime?
I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game.
My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage.
We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.
That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.
That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.
My issue is not with solo-ing being harder - I'm fine with that. The problem is when content is simply not doable for solo-ers.
There's tons of content in MMOs, I don't really see anything wrong with more challenging content developed around a group encounter. Things are interesting that way, having to coordinate people into various roles to beat a challenge, it adds dimension to an MMO. If you feel left out cause you can't do it solo, consider so much more of game is devoted to YOUR experience than those who enjoy group encounters, and let them have some fun too.
I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers. I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game. That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play). So why give a shit? Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo. Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than then for fun. Its a pretty limited game style choice. Why give them a hardtime?
I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game.
My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage.
We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.
That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.
That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.
Oh I see your issue isn't with soloing as a playstyle choice, you have a game balance issue.
See thats an entirely different subject. If a MMO developer doesn't balance Solo vs group progression then the game is pretty messed up for one of those sides.
As an example If you could solo everything easily, noone would want to group and its even more fucked up if you group and get a xp penalty.
Same goes for content that is unsoloable. that limits people imo. Grouping should be worthwhile and soloers should have access to everything but require more of a challenge and take longer to progress if alone.
Problem is not many MMOs are balanced like this.
Honestly I would fix this by giving an actual XP bonus for groups with higher drop rates and buffs that activate in group but at the same time make the content soloable but without those advantages.
I would also make all dungeons have a scaling feature that would let someone solo it but give less rewards.
This way you balance everything. the people that want to group can and even certain ones that like soloing will join due to the incentives and solo casuals who dont have the time to group can access everything overtime.
I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers. I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game. That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play). So why give a shit? Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo. Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than then for fun. Its a pretty limited game style choice. Why give them a hardtime?
I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game.
My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage.
We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.
That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.
That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.
Oh I see your issue isn't with soloing as a playstyle choice, you have a game balance issue.
See thats an entirely different subject. If a MMO developer doesn't balance Solo vs group progression then the game is pretty messed up for one of those sides.
As an example If you could solo everything easily, noone would want to group and its even more fucked up if you group and get a xp penalty.
Same goes for content that is unsoloable. that limits people imo. Grouping should be worthwhile and soloers should have access to everything but require more of a challenge and take longer to progress if alone.
Problem is not many MMOs are balanced like this.
Honestly I would fix this by giving an actual XP bonus for groups with higher drop rates and buffs that activate in group but at the same time make the content soloable but without those advantages.
I would also make all dungeons have a scaling feature that would let someone solo it but give less rewards.
This way you balance everything. the people that want to group can and even certain ones that like soloing will join due to the incentives and solo casuals who dont have the time to group can access everything overtime.
In DAoC the incentive to group used to be faster experience gain, group experience bonus, being able to fight MORE monsters with LESS downtime (back when downtime actually meant something, yes it was irritating but it also did so much for the game). A group of 4 players could sweep through camps of higher level mobs without taking much damage at all, so they wouldn't have to rest, whereas a solo player would either expend mana or get hurt, and have to spend time healing, which I HATED. Soloing wasn't as balanced as it could have been.
But, several expansions later, they made task dungeons, personal randomly generated instances that churned out TONS of money and TONS of experience to whoever went in it. You could go in with a group of friends, or solo, either way the payout was massive compared to regular non instanced dungeons, and that's when all hope for the game died. Soloing + instances are kind of the bane of socializing and grouping.
Maybe we should revolt against the current grouping mechanics... maybe demand some form of seamless interaction with other players in game rather than formal group mechanics.
Maybe we should revolt against the current grouping mechanics... maybe demand some form of seamless interaction with other players in game rather than formal group mechanics. I could go for something like that.
Why not make a profession like journalism, where players can write news articles, stories, or whatever, dump it into an item you can make tons of, and have players buy it with gold? could be just RP stories, actually real world news, or news about the game itself. I could be a lite version of sites like this one. It think it would work better in a more contemporary themed mmo, but still.
heck, players could even create journalism guilds, where there would be editors and even make a proper newspaper.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
If you dont like to solo, then you dont need to see the point. ill just say this: its a personal choice. you like certain things, other people like different things. does this sound too hard to compute?
There we go again...
I forgot, that "civil" and "MMORPG.com" don't mesh.
Let me draw you an analogy. You get a choice of two burgers, absolutely identical, but the first one can only be eaten in a small group, and the other costs more, doesn't have the meat inside and you get to eat it in a room full of other people, eating the same burger. That's what solo looks like to me. I would really like to know where I am wrong.
You're completely wrong in that the "solo" burger costs more and doesn't have the meat inside. This contradicts your own metaphor, that they are "absolutely identical", and contradicts the argument that the metaphor represents. Whether you do the content solo or in a group, it's STILL THE SAME CONTENT. It also betrays your "keep it civil" comment, as, anyone who would pay more for a burger without meat would have to be an idiot. Thus, you think solo'ers are idiots.
The reason THIS person solos a good number of quests is so I can enjoy the content at my own pace. When you're in a group, the tendency is to get through the content as quickly as possible. RARELY in a group do you stop to smell the roses.
I was in LotRO last night, Lothlorien to be exact. It's an absolutely beautiful place. Sometimes I just wanted to stop and take a look. Sometimes I changed direction halfway to my destination to finish a quest that was a bit out of the way but it would just take a moment to finish. Sometimes I wanted to run home and pick up some ingredients and craft for about 10 minutes. Sometimes I wanted to go afk for 5-10 minutes to let the dog out.
To do any of these things in a group, I'd have to be a huge jerk. If I group, that group deserves my focus and undivided attention. I accept that I can do that maybe 20% of the time I spend playing. So most of the time, I solo.
I also reject the statement from your OP that MMO's are "poor quality" compared to single player games. One of the most heralded recent single player RPG's, Dragon Age, is loaded with many of the same kind of missions. Certainly plenty of "courier" missions; this guy wants you to talk to this other guy, etc. Many of the faction missions just have you go to an area and clear it of bad guys, not entirely different than kill X monsters quests. The only thing that makes MMO's repetitive is the simple fact that you have to have tons more content than a single player game. If you had an MMO that only had DA:O's 80 hours of content, few players would stick around after the first month. Just ask the CO devs...
So an MMO has to spread its content out, and repetition is inevitable. You'll have many _____ X _____ quests. If that automatically makes a game repetitive, then Baldurs Gate sequels were all "same ol, same ol", as well...
People solo because it is an option and well within their choice to do so. MMOs are their own world, just like real life. When you have a game with a strong community base you can actually see the emulation of life a lot better. You could choice to have dinner with a group of friends or you could chose to eat alone. Sometimes you might be having a bad day and just want to be left alone. Sometimes you might want to do something where you don't feel you can rely on others or maybe you don't have to share the spoils of life. Maybe the player really likes the game, but doesn't really know how to work well in a group so he is shunned. Soloing is 75% choice and 25% necessity.
Maybe we should revolt against the current grouping mechanics... maybe demand some form of seamless interaction with other players in game rather than formal group mechanics. I could go for something like that.
Why not make a profession like journalism, where players can write news articles, stories, or whatever, dump it into an item you can make tons of, and have players buy it with gold? could be just RP stories, actually real world news, or news about the game itself. I could be a lite version of sites like this one. It think it would work better in a more contemporary themed mmo, but still.
heck, players could even create journalism guilds, where there would be editors and even make a proper newspaper.
Maybe we should revolt against the current grouping mechanics... maybe demand some form of seamless interaction with other players in game rather than formal group mechanics. I could go for something like that.
Why not make a profession like journalism, where players can write news articles, stories, or whatever, dump it into an item you can make tons of, and have players buy it with gold? could be just RP stories, actually real world news, or news about the game itself. I could be a lite version of sites like this one. It think it would work better in a more contemporary themed mmo, but still.
heck, players could even create journalism guilds, where there would be editors and even make a proper newspaper.
Sounds nice, but wouldn't work very well. What happens when you combine anonymity with a social outlet? Spam. You'd need to institute an ironclad regulating system.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
I've been playing DDO lately, mostly because it's free.
It's an interesting game. However, the fanbase knows the dungeons so well that when ever I join a group, it's always a 'speed run', the players race through the dungeon, open every chest, kill ever named mob etc. These old time players twinked their toons to the gills of course.
I solo so that I can experience the game as it was intended. I get lost, I stumble into traps and so on.
Like one DDO fan told me, I took my time the first 100 times I ran this, now I just want the loot and xps. This philosophy runs it for new players.
DISCLAIMER: During the course of the discussion, I've changed my mind, and agreed with a lot of arguments. I have no problem with soloers now, only with games and lackluster communities. Can we move on now? Please?
How more blatant can I get?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers. I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game. That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play). So why give a shit? Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo. Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than them for fun. Its a pretty limited game style choice. Why give them a hardtime?
uh wait a minute.
I think there is a HUGE confusion here.
Players who solo or "soloers" don't solely solo (almost a tongue twister).
Solo players do group, they do raid, they do pvp in groups.
It's just that the majority of the time they are leveling they are leveling where they want to (given certain constraints) and as long as they want to.
I am a solo player. But I do group up and at times might even be grouped for an entire session.
but when I log in the first thing I do is not ask "so what's going on" or "are there any groups going on" or "Class x looking for group for Y".
No. I get my stuff and start doing my thing. If someone needs help I'll group with them. If someone announces they are doing something that is of interest and they need people I'll group.
But my first incliniation, and I imagine the same can be said of other soloers is "I've just logged in and now I'm going to make my own fun".
I think some people are obsessed with soloers because so many games incorporate solo play and they see it as a threat to their type of game play style. Or they just can't understand why anyone would do it and the idea that someone is doing something that they don't understand the value of angers them. For some reason.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers. I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game. That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play). So why give a shit? Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo. Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than them for fun. Its a pretty limited game style choice. Why give them a hardtime?
uh wait a minute.
I think there is a HUGE confusion here.
Players who solo or "soloers" don't solely solo (almost a tongue twister).
Solo players do group, they do raid, they do pvp in groups.
It's just that the majority of the time they are leveling they are leveling where they want to (given certain constraints) and as long as they want to.
I am a solo player. But I do group up and at times might even be grouped for an entire session.
but when I log in the first thing I do is not ask "so what's going on" or "are there any groups going on" or "Class x looking for group for Y".
No. I get my stuff and start doing my thing. If someone needs help I'll group with them. If someone announces they are doing something that is of interest and they need people I'll group.
But my first incliniation, and I imagine the same can be said of other soloers is "I've just logged in and now I'm going to make my own fun".
I think some people are obsessed with soloers because so many games incorporate solo play and they see it as a threat to their type of game play style. Or they just can't understand why anyone would do it and the idea that someone is doing something that they don't understand the value of angers them. For some reason.
Well said. You just described my playing style completely.
Comments
Hiya,
I love to solo because it is too stressful to have to log out suddenly if I'm in a pug/group. Real life comes first and when my daughter, husband, elderly pets, elderly parents and in-laws need me- I log out instantly.
I play MMO's because I like an evolving world. I get new areas and quests every few months in my MMO to keep things exciting:)
Fair enough. Why can't we have more level-headed responses like that?
Because we're on the MMORPG.com forums. Are you well acquainted with these forums? lol
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I solo because i hate whinny kids,fighting over loot that ppl dont need,the lame a$$ chat talking about last nights dinner ect ect,plain and simple dealing with a$$ hats in general.......So i guess im kinda antisocial at times and just like to be alone with me time
lol............i also like to solo because i can go at my own pace and go afk when ever i feel to do so.......I dont need or want to be rushed to the next mission/quest just for the group to split apart if some one is not fast enough......Anyways thats just my 2 cents on why i love to solo
I would say then masturbation or sex in at least 5 if you want to put it this way. :-))
regarding a few posts above, I think that mmos are "just" a game, but being just a game is no excuse to suck at it, expecially when youre max level. And by sucking I dont mean not being the best. Telling someone to stay out of the fire, and then seeing them dieing because they didnt is annoying, to say the least.
Anyway, I too prefer to solo, for all the reasons that everyone keeps posting.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Soloing lets you play how you want to, when you want to however that is not normally the main reason for it.
The main reason people want to solo in a MMO is the same reason that people want to play MMO's
People.
I have grouped with some great people and I have grouped with people that I have wanted to strangle.
The great ones are helpful, respectful and are out to achieve the main goal of the game...fun.
The awful ones are bossy, rude, petty, childish, etc etc etc. They regularly tell others how to play, what to do, where to go and become the largest fun suck in the game. It is beyond belief to them that people want to play the game and learn how to get thru it on their own. Unable to limit themselves to offering advice they begin escalated behavior when others do not lockstep to their demands. It is no surprise that a great many of these are "achievers" who in their own mind are truly a legend. They feel that their eliteness gives them carte blanche to behave like the biggest tools in any situation or group they are in.
This singular group if harness and weaponized could end every war worldwide simultaneously.
Because of them soloing will end up being in every game because even Devs don’t want to have to spend time with these people.
[sigh] another "I don't understand solo-er's" thread.
On behalf of all solo-ers: We don't care if you get it. Sometimes - we don't get the groupers.
We just wanna play to.
Then play a single player RPG, yes? Don't get me wrong, I've soloed quite a bit in the past several years, but I was raised on a game where I hated soloing. Soloing should always be there as an option, but grouping should be encouraged. Not forced grouping, but grouping should have large benefits over soloing.. This is what MMORPGs were all about. You could solo in EverQuest, it was just slow. That's why EQ is considered a real social MMO and WoW is not. If you wanna run through your own personal bubble with 1 or 2 real life friends, there's Diablo.
People are probably bad at grouping now simply because it is so uncommon, which is said when grouping in a multiplayer game is the untrodden path. "But you can group if you want to, you have that option!" Given the choice, people will choose the easier path, always, and that is soloing, because the casual kiddie games are designed around it.
Darkfall Travelogues!
I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers.
I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game.
That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play).
So why give a shit?
Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo.
Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than them for fun.
Its a pretty limited game style choice.
Why give them a hardtime?
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Then play a single player RPG, yes?
No.
What you gonna do about it? Oh thats right, theres nothing you CAN do to force me to "go play a single player rpg" now is there?
tough noodles to you.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Then play a single player RPG, yes? Don't get me wrong, I've soloed quite a bit in the past several years, but I was raised on a game where I hated soloing. Soloing should always be there as an option, but grouping should be encouraged. Not forced grouping, but grouping should have large benefits over soloing.. This is what MMORPGs were all about. You could solo in EverQuest, it was just slow. That's why EQ is considered a real social MMO and WoW is not. If you wanna run through your own personal bubble with 1 or 2 real life friends, there's Diablo.
Why do MMO's have to be about grouping anyway? That would be my question. At any rate - I am perfectly fine with groups earning enhanced whatever - so long as all content is available to all paying customers. I've said before that D2 had a good mechanic for encouraging grouping by simply increasing drop rates on items. I can enjoy the same content as your group - but you will get better items, quicker then I will. Win-Win.
By the way... your statement about EQ being a "real" social MMO is purely opinion. I used to solo EQ - I used to group in FFXI. I want the option to do either with success in the same game.
I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game.
My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage.
We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.
That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.
That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.
Darkfall Travelogues!
I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game.
My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage.
We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.
That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.
That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.
My issue is not with solo-ing being harder - I'm fine with that. The problem is when content is simply not doable for solo-ers.
I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game.
My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage.
We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.
That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.
That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.
My issue is not with solo-ing being harder - I'm fine with that. The problem is when content is simply not doable for solo-ers.
There's tons of content in MMOs, I don't really see anything wrong with more challenging content developed around a group encounter. Things are interesting that way, having to coordinate people into various roles to beat a challenge, it adds dimension to an MMO. If you feel left out cause you can't do it solo, consider so much more of game is devoted to YOUR experience than those who enjoy group encounters, and let them have some fun too.
Darkfall Travelogues!
I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game.
My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage.
We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.
That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.
That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.
Oh I see your issue isn't with soloing as a playstyle choice, you have a game balance issue.
See thats an entirely different subject. If a MMO developer doesn't balance Solo vs group progression then the game is pretty messed up for one of those sides.
As an example If you could solo everything easily, noone would want to group and its even more fucked up if you group and get a xp penalty.
Same goes for content that is unsoloable. that limits people imo. Grouping should be worthwhile and soloers should have access to everything but require more of a challenge and take longer to progress if alone.
Problem is not many MMOs are balanced like this.
Honestly I would fix this by giving an actual XP bonus for groups with higher drop rates and buffs that activate in group but at the same time make the content soloable but without those advantages.
I would also make all dungeons have a scaling feature that would let someone solo it but give less rewards.
This way you balance everything. the people that want to group can and even certain ones that like soloing will join due to the incentives and solo casuals who dont have the time to group can access everything overtime.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game.
My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage.
We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.
That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.
That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.
Oh I see your issue isn't with soloing as a playstyle choice, you have a game balance issue.
See thats an entirely different subject. If a MMO developer doesn't balance Solo vs group progression then the game is pretty messed up for one of those sides.
As an example If you could solo everything easily, noone would want to group and its even more fucked up if you group and get a xp penalty.
Same goes for content that is unsoloable. that limits people imo. Grouping should be worthwhile and soloers should have access to everything but require more of a challenge and take longer to progress if alone.
Problem is not many MMOs are balanced like this.
Honestly I would fix this by giving an actual XP bonus for groups with higher drop rates and buffs that activate in group but at the same time make the content soloable but without those advantages.
I would also make all dungeons have a scaling feature that would let someone solo it but give less rewards.
This way you balance everything. the people that want to group can and even certain ones that like soloing will join due to the incentives and solo casuals who dont have the time to group can access everything overtime.
In DAoC the incentive to group used to be faster experience gain, group experience bonus, being able to fight MORE monsters with LESS downtime (back when downtime actually meant something, yes it was irritating but it also did so much for the game). A group of 4 players could sweep through camps of higher level mobs without taking much damage at all, so they wouldn't have to rest, whereas a solo player would either expend mana or get hurt, and have to spend time healing, which I HATED. Soloing wasn't as balanced as it could have been.
But, several expansions later, they made task dungeons, personal randomly generated instances that churned out TONS of money and TONS of experience to whoever went in it. You could go in with a group of friends, or solo, either way the payout was massive compared to regular non instanced dungeons, and that's when all hope for the game died. Soloing + instances are kind of the bane of socializing and grouping.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Maybe we should revolt against the current grouping mechanics... maybe demand some form of seamless interaction with other players in game rather than formal group mechanics.
I could go for something like that.
Why not make a profession like journalism, where players can write news articles, stories, or whatever, dump it into an item you can make tons of, and have players buy it with gold? could be just RP stories, actually real world news, or news about the game itself. I could be a lite version of sites like this one. It think it would work better in a more contemporary themed mmo, but still.
heck, players could even create journalism guilds, where there would be editors and even make a proper newspaper.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
There we go again...
I forgot, that "civil" and "MMORPG.com" don't mesh.
Let me draw you an analogy. You get a choice of two burgers, absolutely identical, but the first one can only be eaten in a small group, and the other costs more, doesn't have the meat inside and you get to eat it in a room full of other people, eating the same burger. That's what solo looks like to me. I would really like to know where I am wrong.
You're completely wrong in that the "solo" burger costs more and doesn't have the meat inside. This contradicts your own metaphor, that they are "absolutely identical", and contradicts the argument that the metaphor represents. Whether you do the content solo or in a group, it's STILL THE SAME CONTENT. It also betrays your "keep it civil" comment, as, anyone who would pay more for a burger without meat would have to be an idiot. Thus, you think solo'ers are idiots.
The reason THIS person solos a good number of quests is so I can enjoy the content at my own pace. When you're in a group, the tendency is to get through the content as quickly as possible. RARELY in a group do you stop to smell the roses.
I was in LotRO last night, Lothlorien to be exact. It's an absolutely beautiful place. Sometimes I just wanted to stop and take a look. Sometimes I changed direction halfway to my destination to finish a quest that was a bit out of the way but it would just take a moment to finish. Sometimes I wanted to run home and pick up some ingredients and craft for about 10 minutes. Sometimes I wanted to go afk for 5-10 minutes to let the dog out.
To do any of these things in a group, I'd have to be a huge jerk. If I group, that group deserves my focus and undivided attention. I accept that I can do that maybe 20% of the time I spend playing. So most of the time, I solo.
I also reject the statement from your OP that MMO's are "poor quality" compared to single player games. One of the most heralded recent single player RPG's, Dragon Age, is loaded with many of the same kind of missions. Certainly plenty of "courier" missions; this guy wants you to talk to this other guy, etc. Many of the faction missions just have you go to an area and clear it of bad guys, not entirely different than kill X monsters quests. The only thing that makes MMO's repetitive is the simple fact that you have to have tons more content than a single player game. If you had an MMO that only had DA:O's 80 hours of content, few players would stick around after the first month. Just ask the CO devs...
So an MMO has to spread its content out, and repetition is inevitable. You'll have many _____ X _____ quests. If that automatically makes a game repetitive, then Baldurs Gate sequels were all "same ol, same ol", as well...
Preface this with: I prefer grouping.
People solo because it is an option and well within their choice to do so. MMOs are their own world, just like real life. When you have a game with a strong community base you can actually see the emulation of life a lot better. You could choice to have dinner with a group of friends or you could chose to eat alone. Sometimes you might be having a bad day and just want to be left alone. Sometimes you might want to do something where you don't feel you can rely on others or maybe you don't have to share the spoils of life. Maybe the player really likes the game, but doesn't really know how to work well in a group so he is shunned. Soloing is 75% choice and 25% necessity.
Why not make a profession like journalism, where players can write news articles, stories, or whatever, dump it into an item you can make tons of, and have players buy it with gold? could be just RP stories, actually real world news, or news about the game itself. I could be a lite version of sites like this one. It think it would work better in a more contemporary themed mmo, but still.
heck, players could even create journalism guilds, where there would be editors and even make a proper newspaper.
http://my.lotro.com/
Why not make a profession like journalism, where players can write news articles, stories, or whatever, dump it into an item you can make tons of, and have players buy it with gold? could be just RP stories, actually real world news, or news about the game itself. I could be a lite version of sites like this one. It think it would work better in a more contemporary themed mmo, but still.
heck, players could even create journalism guilds, where there would be editors and even make a proper newspaper.
Sounds nice, but wouldn't work very well. What happens when you combine anonymity with a social outlet? Spam. You'd need to institute an ironclad regulating system.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
I've been playing DDO lately, mostly because it's free.
It's an interesting game. However, the fanbase knows the dungeons so well that when ever I join a group, it's always a 'speed run', the players race through the dungeon, open every chest, kill ever named mob etc. These old time players twinked their toons to the gills of course.
I solo so that I can experience the game as it was intended. I get lost, I stumble into traps and so on.
Like one DDO fan told me, I took my time the first 100 times I ran this, now I just want the loot and xps. This philosophy runs it for new players.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
People... Seriously... Can you even read anymore?
Quote from my edited OP:
DISCLAIMER: During the course of the discussion, I've changed my mind, and agreed with a lot of arguments. I have no problem with soloers now, only with games and lackluster communities. Can we move on now? Please?
How more blatant can I get?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
uh wait a minute.
I think there is a HUGE confusion here.
Players who solo or "soloers" don't solely solo (almost a tongue twister).
Solo players do group, they do raid, they do pvp in groups.
It's just that the majority of the time they are leveling they are leveling where they want to (given certain constraints) and as long as they want to.
I am a solo player. But I do group up and at times might even be grouped for an entire session.
but when I log in the first thing I do is not ask "so what's going on" or "are there any groups going on" or "Class x looking for group for Y".
No. I get my stuff and start doing my thing. If someone needs help I'll group with them. If someone announces they are doing something that is of interest and they need people I'll group.
But my first incliniation, and I imagine the same can be said of other soloers is "I've just logged in and now I'm going to make my own fun".
I think some people are obsessed with soloers because so many games incorporate solo play and they see it as a threat to their type of game play style. Or they just can't understand why anyone would do it and the idea that someone is doing something that they don't understand the value of angers them. For some reason.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
uh wait a minute.
I think there is a HUGE confusion here.
Players who solo or "soloers" don't solely solo (almost a tongue twister).
Solo players do group, they do raid, they do pvp in groups.
It's just that the majority of the time they are leveling they are leveling where they want to (given certain constraints) and as long as they want to.
I am a solo player. But I do group up and at times might even be grouped for an entire session.
but when I log in the first thing I do is not ask "so what's going on" or "are there any groups going on" or "Class x looking for group for Y".
No. I get my stuff and start doing my thing. If someone needs help I'll group with them. If someone announces they are doing something that is of interest and they need people I'll group.
But my first incliniation, and I imagine the same can be said of other soloers is "I've just logged in and now I'm going to make my own fun".
I think some people are obsessed with soloers because so many games incorporate solo play and they see it as a threat to their type of game play style. Or they just can't understand why anyone would do it and the idea that someone is doing something that they don't understand the value of angers them. For some reason.
Well said. You just described my playing style completely.