I like to solo mainly to avoid people like the op.
And you hate me, because?..
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Again, I understand why people prefer to solo, and came to respect that. I just don't enjoy it as much.
This quote is the promised land. too bad we're not all there. But us soloers are having a blast.
I'm having a blast playing Rayman Revolution. Does that count?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
More of the same arguments from people who want everyone to be FORCED to play in groups.
Hypocrisy is bad kids...mmkay?
My reasons for playing EXCLUSIVELY SOLO - which I have posted before on other threads. 1. I have been playing for over three years now and have yet to have any of my troops high enough to where I can generate a Death Knight. Speed in leveling is NOT one of my priorities.
Ok then, I suppose you just suck then? My 12 year old niece got to 60-something inside 3 months and she is limited to an hour of game-time every other day. Ironically, she plays the game better than I do.
2. I am a HOPELESS altoholic - I have almost 100 toons under TWO accounts on WOW. If i want to try some new class, race or talent combination I will generate a new toon - even if I have to delete a mid 40s level toon to do it.
Ok....
3. If I want to spend an hour or two grinding up a profession (mining, herbalism, etc) or secondary profession (fishing, cooking, etc.) I can do so without a bunch of idiots bitching at me about holding up THEIR progress. I frankly DO NOT GIVE A CRAP about THEIR progress.
I am still failing to see why grouping is bad here. You, like many of the other 'solo' enthusiasts make the assumption that 'grouping' enthusiasts want to completely eliminate any solo element. We simply want there to be a reason for grouping to be desirable. As it is now, games 'allow' grouping. But the way the games are designed it's counter-productive to group.
4. Soloing is the ONLY way a player can REALLY learn how to play a class. You quickly learn ALL the strengths and weaknesses of the class - something that can NEVER be learned in groups just fulfilling a small predetermined group niche.
Oh...ahah...ehh..eheh...hoo....wait...sh**, you're serious? I can't count on both hands and feet how many idiots I've ran into in the high level instances that didn't know their class from a hole in the ground. Largely in-part because they never grouped in their entire career with anyone.
5. I DO NOT buy the argument that Massivly Multiplayer Onilne gaming means that the intent is that players MUST play in groups. I engage with the other players on line thru the Auction House and in other manners.
So...by online interaction...you just want the people to be there. But you don't really want to have to do any nasty, uh what do you call it...INTERACTING. You want to play a game by yourself, but have a large group of people to support your time playing without having to give anything back to them. What a selfish mindset.
6. This game has a far larger world than any single player game. I play for enjoyment - not to see how fast I can finish the game.
And why can't this be done with say, 1 or more other people as well?
7. I have played in groups and have been ripped off by people who formed them in order to get the goodies that THEY wanted in a instance - and then hearthed out leaving me in the middle of the mob. when they got what they wanted.
Yes, and if there was an emphasis on grouping...those actions would be scorned heavily. As it stands now people get away with crap like that because they can. There are no reprocussions, because they can do it, then continue playing the game by themselves without want or worry of what others think. Whereas in a game like FF11, if the same jackhole did something like that. They'd be immidiately blacklisted by almost the entire server. Their progression would come to a dead halt.
8. I PAY MY OWN MONTHLY FEES FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF PLAYING THE GAME. If someone else wants me to play THEIR way they can pay my fees for me - until then don't bitch about how I play.
As long as you don't bitch about how I want to play either. I pay my own monthly fees for my privilege as well. So what? Am I SOL, because your 15$ is more important than mine?
Again, hypocrisy is bad kids...mmkay?
Replies to your reply
1. Most of my troops are credited in the "achievements" listings as having SOLOED a number of 5 and 10 man instances - that sucks?
And BTW - my 12 year old triplet grand-daughters are pretty good too - One has a lvl 80 Pally that kicks butt. I DON"T mind grouping with them.
2. You had no comment on that???
3. No one is stopping YOU from grouping - do it all you want - I REALLY don't care if you group or not.
4. That is exactly what I mean - the people in groups advance so fast that they have no time to learn how to play their class. I have lvl 36 Mage that I have soloed just to see how hard they are to keep alive. The only time that troop has died so far is when I was knocked off the server and logged back on dead. I see people in groups that have to stop and eat and drink after every skirmish. They are not smart enough to have a supply of instant heals and mana regenerators that they can use in order to NOT hold up the rest of the group while THEY regenerate. And then there are those high level troops that have to beg to get the money to buy their next mount. ALL my troops have a couple of hundred gold by the time they are lvl 15.
5. I am not asking anyone to support my playing - I interact to the extent that I want to - not what someone else wants me to. I am interested in being in a massively large world that I can explore to my hearts content without having to bother with anyone else's problems.
6. Yes - this CAN be done with one or more other people - but I am pretty choosy about who I associate with - in games as well as REAL life. And just to stifle your NEXT retort - NO I am NOT a hermit.
7. That is EXACTLY my point - as long as people are anonymous there will be this element - and what is to keep them from doing the same thing with another toon?
8. I have NEVER EVER seen any solo player bitch about the players who WANT to group - but I HAVE seen a lot of GROUPERS bitch about SOLO players. What is your point? You sound like a debating student I once knew in one of my College classes who just wanted to debate for the sake of debating. Never had any VALID points - just wanted to argue. Probably went on to become a lawyer. Didn't want to get a REAL job.
I fail to see why people need to dictate how I should enjoy a video game. Mind your business!
haha.. cracked me up.
Personally, I think folks can play however they want. I don't have the time or the interest in caring how others play MMOs. Maybe you have too much free time on your hands? lol
I seriously do. Look, this is not a flame thread. This is something, of a big question to the people, who play solo. Why? What draws you in? See... Let's be honest here. MMORPG's, as games in themselves... Kinda suck. They're repetetive, drawn-out, barely offer a coherent story and their fighting system is a droll. I can get a bazillion times more enjoyment from about any solid C/JRPG, released in the last 15 years. The point is... They are, in their core, better. Cheaper, even, especially in the long run. The time it takes to solo a char to the cap in a modern MMO is about the same, as the time it would take you to beat, say, Baldur's Gate. But with Baldur's Gate you're at least rewarded with a cutscene and some closure to the story. I understand the necessity of solo. Yes, it's unavoidable, since most people don't want to group with strangers. But why do people... Like it? P.S. Let's try to keep things civil, people. We can have an interesting discussion, if we try to keep our bile from spilling.
EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"
Solo play has been going up in the last couple years, IMO.
Firstly, there's the tendency that you just don't want to deal with potential group problems (clashing personalities, etc). That will always be there in an MMO.
Lastly though, the far biggest reason, is the gameplay system itself promoting solo play. I'll use the old SWG (Pre-CU/NGE) as an example, since the gameplay and community did drastically change to show this.
** Experience Point Penalties while in a group: SWG later adopted a policy of XPs being drastically cut if you were in a group. A far different system when the game first came out when you had XP BONUSES while in a group. In the old system, it gave you incentive to be in a group. Even LotRO has XP penalties while in a group.
** Less Player Interdependence - Combat: When the character and combat system gives alot of abilities to an individual 'toon. For example most classes having a pretty decent self-heal ability. An ability such as good self healing reduces the reasoning why anyone would want to group up. Because you can do it all yourself. Or you have one of those "solo-friendly" classes intentionally placed in the game. In the old SWG, everyone had the opportunity to get healing ability, i.e. stimpack usage and certification. But you had to give up valuable skillpoints to do so, skillpoints that could really push your combat ability through the roof. And if you really wanted better healing, you needed to devote alot more into it. Later in the game, EVERYONE got self-healing abilities as part of your levelling and progression. Not excellent healing, but good enough to get the job done.
** Less Player Interdependence - Economy: This is a big one here. Everyone these days in most MMOs has extensive crafting abilities, going so far as being Grandmasters or something like that in several arts, at no cost to one's own acquired combat ability. What this means is that everyone can craft well. It also doesn't help that crafting is simplistic. The old SWG had a thriving player-driven economy. There was a clear dividing line between the hardcore combat players and the (believe it or not) hardcore crafter / merchant players. To be good in combat, you couldn't be a good crafter. Vice versa if you wanted to be a good crafter. You just would suck in combat. But the gameplay experience for crafters was actually good, there was an extensive crafting system in place that was as deep as the possibilities in combat. It also helped immensely that crafters made all the items / gear you needed and wanted.
It also helped that there was item decay, meaning every piece of gear breaks eventually. You needed replacements. Crafters of course knew this, and there was excellent competition between them to attract customers, but more importantly, to keep you coming back for more. Prices were competetive; driven by what the players wanted. You of course could be one of those douches and demand insane prices for your goods, but you're not going to get much business. Because you could get just as good gear from some other guys and at fair prices. As a combat oriented player, I got all my gear at fair, competetive prices. I shopped around for the best deal. There were certain crafters I would regularly return to because of the quality of goods and pricing. Heck, to build a number of better gear, crafters required dropped materials that they themselves simply couldn't go out and get, because it involves dangerous combat. On the flip side, you could be a combat player, need this fancy blaster, but recall that you have rare materials that a crafter could use to build that blaster. So, you work out a deal with your weaponsmith buddy to build you this weapon at a far cheaper cost since you provided the rare materials.
There was plenty of good gear for sale, and at competitive pricing in the old days of SWG. Crafters were just as vital to the game as anyone else is. Alot of MMO systems out there give any single toon the ability to fight well, gather resources, and craft at the highest tiers, all with one character. What this does it gives even less reason to work with other players, because again, your own toon can do everything.
** Less Player Interdependence - Non Combat: The old SWG had an interesting system in place. Combat players after a length of time of fighting slowly accrued wounds and fatigue. Wounds were semi-permanent penalties to your health pool, for example. Meaning your maximum health slowly goes down over time while in the field, fighting. Fatigue is something you accrued also, which affected how well you fight. Stay out fighting too long and your performance drops. You fight poorly and your max health and such starts going down.
After so long, you needed to go back to town to recover. You go to the medical center. Doctor players were there to heal away those wounds. You tip them for their services and chat a little bit. Oftenly I ran into the same docs at the same med centers. You get to know other players more and more because you see them all the time, need something from them. Small talk about them asking how it's going out there in the field, me asking how things are in town, and how business is going. So, that all took care of wounds, now you need to take care of fatigue. You'd hop over to the Cantina (a bar / club area in town). In the simplest of terms, all you basically needed was to watch / listen to one of the active player Entertainers there. There'd be dancers, bands, solo instrumentalists, etc. They were actual players. You watch / listen to them, and your fatigue eventually goes away. But in actual gameplay, there was far more going on in the Cantina. The Cantinas were frequently major player hubs, due to how the system worked. Even better, some Cantinas were so jam packed with players that it was ridiculous. If you can remember being in a packed bar or club in real life, that's how it was in some of the Cantinas in the old SWG. Entertainers doing their thing, combat guys coming in to rest and recover fatigue. There may be Entertainers that you regularly return to out of familiarity and loyalty, just like your favorite merchant. You pay them for their services and could move on. But the funny thing is, that you can run into friends in the cantina, or meet new ones, and end up chatting there for a long time.
The funny thing was that the good Entertainers had poor to no combat ability. These people were totally dedicated to the Entertainment and social aspect of the game. Helping people recover and chatting. Some entertainers were very well known. Heck, there could be that one great Twi'lek dancer that you keep watching and chat with all the time, since you see her there alot.
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I provided once major example of a single MMO that at one point had it right as far as solo play and encouraging group play, and socializing with other players. I had my bouts of hermit play, but in general, it was surprising for me NOT to be even in a small adventuring group for an entire session in the old SWG. And it was close to impossible to not interact with players in getting your day to day business done.
What this all meant, at least to me as a combat guy in the old version of the game, was that I felt I was part of a big, tight knit player community on that server. My friends list was big, you meet new people all the time. I was loyal to certain merchants and entertainers.
Lastly, one of the biggest indicators of any MMO community (IMO) is how new players are treated. In the old SWG, new players got assistance from veterans as to how to play the game. Show them the ropes, help them get their first couple skillboxes, etc. I'm not talking about handout items, I'm talking about showing them how to play. The game originally had no tutorial whatsoever, and the gameplay was sophisticated, but we vets took the opportunity to show the newbies the ropes so that they can handle themselves. The same happened for me when I first started the game. The game was hard when you first start since it wasn't your traditional class + level system, but when shown how to play by a veteran, the veil was lifted. As a veteran player, I took the opportunity to find a new player having a tough time (watch out for those Kreetles! lol), take them under my wing for a few hours, and show them how to get the business done. It also helped, that I was decked out in Stormtrooper armor, which really helps in their immersion that they were playing a Star Wars MMO (and helps in Imperial recruiting drives). It also helped the new players see that they were joining an active community. We took care of our own (well, at least in between Rebels and Imperials blasting e ach other).
I've gone on onto several different MMOs, and the group play and community paled in comparison to what I experienced in the old days of SWG. Groups form up and then disband immediately right after a specific quest, oftenly with not even a "bye!" "later!" or "good luck!". I've been in MMOs where these short term groups are formed, nobody talks to each other other than instructions for the fight or quest. I've been in MMOs where I look at bazaars and such, look at the crafted gear and say to myself, "Why would I want to buy that? The next quest I finish will give me the same type of item and just as good or better." I've been on MMOs where general chat has no traffic, or even in player hubs, nobody talks to each other. I've been in MMOs where there's so many solo players running around but having no desire to group with others. I've been in MMOs where people get upset when you try to help them out (partly because there's a huge XP loss if they receive HELP FROM OTHER PLAYERS).
So, what we're dealing with here is the natural tendency for people to keep to themselves. But the implemented gameplay system by developers plays a HUGE role as to why peope would group up or work with each other. I started out as a solo player when I got to the old version of SWG. But that MMO and community made me a hardcore group player and participant in the community. Later MMOs I tried after SWG went south haven't offered that same experience in groups and player interaction. Some go so far as actually being a single-player RPG but you're paying money for after the date of purchase.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
To respond, Let me ask you, what's the point of being a lone wolf if you really are the only wolf? It's fun to be in a persistent world with people all around you living their virtual lives while you slip in and out of social groups never really tying yourself down to anyone or anything. Taking opportunities where they come. You see even the solo player "interacts" with other players, in fact they love to interact with other players, it's not about avoiding them, it's just about the mystique of traveling alone through a hostile world. It's just a different way of playing a multiplayer game, its not the same in a singleplayer rpg.
Think about it, where's the fun in roleplaying a Hermit if there is no one to yell "get off my lawn" at?
WildStar is like if Ratchet and Clank had a baby with Beyond Good & Evil and that baby was raised by World of Warcraft and Spore and babysat on the weekends by the aliens from Space Jam. It's an ugly bastard worth a few laughs but not much else.
So, what we're dealing with here is the natural tendency for people to keep to themselves. But the implemented gameplay system by developers plays a HUGE role as to why peope would group up or work with each other. I started out as a solo player when I got to the old version of SWG. But that MMO and community made me a hardcore group player and participant in the community. Later MMOs I tried after SWG went south haven't offered that same experience in groups and player interaction. Some go so far as actually being a single-player RPG but you're paying money for after the date of purchase.
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Why doesn't this game exist anymore?..
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I play for 8months now solo in Darkfall ive accomplish alot now with progress character crafting and have my fun pvp trips all over world.
Know all my spots to farm good mats know place where i can pvp solo going to towns or farm spots kill players and i have still alot of fun doing it solo.
I met people ingame who i sometimes hunt or help or trade mats with, so i play mmo solo but still interact alot with community and chat play with other players and meeting them in town.
Most even respect my dicision that i play solo 99% are in clans.
Do i miss alot yes and no, i get sometimes chance to join a clan becouse some guys from my country are in that clan and im invited becouse im friend with my country men so i still see alot of game even tho im solo.
Solo is great in Darkfall becouse you have so much freedom and posibillity's to grow even when your solo, you have skills that you only can get in clantowns well i sneak in there go to npc that have my skill i need and leave sure sometimes ive been killed before manage get skill but hey its pvp and its fun:)
Solo is viable way to play:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"
Hiya,
I love to solo because it is too stressful to have to log out suddenly if I'm in a pug/group. Real life comes first and when my daughter, husband, elderly pets, elderly parents and in-laws need me- I log out instantly.
I play MMO's because I like an evolving world. I get new areas and quests every few months in my MMO to keep things exciting:)
EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"
Hiya,
I love to solo because it is too stressful to have to log out suddenly if I'm in a pug/group. Real life comes first and when my daughter, husband, elderly pets, elderly parents and in-laws need me- I log out instantly.
I play MMO's because I like an evolving world. I get new areas and quests every few months in my MMO to keep things exciting:)
Fair enough. Why can't we have more level-headed responses like that?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I understand the necessity of solo. Yes, it's unavoidable, since most people don't want to group with strangers. But why do people... Like it? EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"
I'll answer both questions, the second one first. I choose MMOs because they take longer to "complete". In a single-player game, I can finish the entire game in a matter of hours. I just ran through Dead Space again, for example, and finished the entire thing in less than 11 hours. After you do that... what's left? Delete it and install another one? With an MMO, even leveling as fast as you can, you're still looking at weeks and weeks (or months, depending on how often you play) before reaching the "end". Once you learn the "rules" and the control scheme, you don't have to keep modifying your thinking, unlike having to relearn how things work in a single-player game as you switch once a week or so. Secondly, having people to talk to, even if I don't want to play with them directly, is a lot of fun. I've spent many, many hours just sitting around chatting on an MMO with friends, not even playing the game. It does function very well as an online chatroom if you can find people you really want to talk to and since the chat functions are integral to the game itself, unlike using Twitter or an IM which interrupts the single-player game and probably gets you killed. Third, even in the most rigidly controlled themepark game, you still have a lot more freedom than you do in most single-player games. You can pick and choose what you do. If you get frustrated doing one thing, you can do something else.
For your second question, do I like it? Absolutely. But the enjoyment comes more from the complete dislike I have of most groups in most MMOs. It has nothing to do with grouping with strangers and everything to do with not wanting to group with self-involved assholes. Groups in MMOs are not about success or failure of the group itself, but everyone wanting individual rewards for group efforts. In other words, every person in a group is using the rest for their own interests. You want XP, you group because you can get more XP faster that way. You want gold, you group because there are bigger rewards that way. You want better gear, you group because you can't get them any other way at your level. That's all grouping is. I have no interest in that. Even worse, most people in a group would willingly throw you to the wolves if you get into trouble to save their own skin, there's no real teamwork, no sacrifice, no attachment to the team, it's only there to get you something, if it falls apart and dies, you can just go find another team.
I understand the necessity of solo. Yes, it's unavoidable, since most people don't want to group with strangers. But why do people... Like it? EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"
I'll answer both questions, the second one first. I choose MMOs because they take longer to "complete". In a single-player game, I can finish the entire game in a matter of hours. I just ran through Dead Space again, for example, and finished the entire thing in less than 11 hours. After you do that... what's left? Delete it and install another one? With an MMO, even leveling as fast as you can, you're still looking at weeks and weeks (or months, depending on how often you play) before reaching the "end". Once you learn the "rules" and the control scheme, you don't have to keep modifying your thinking, unlike having to relearn how things work in a single-player game as you switch once a week or so. Secondly, having people to talk to, even if I don't want to play with them directly, is a lot of fun. I've spent many, many hours just sitting around chatting on an MMO with friends, not even playing the game. It does function very well as an online chatroom if you can find people you really want to talk to and since the chat functions are integral to the game itself, unlike using Twitter or an IM which interrupts the single-player game and probably gets you killed. Third, even in the most rigidly controlled themepark game, you still have a lot more freedom than you do in most single-player games. You can pick and choose what you do. If you get frustrated doing one thing, you can do something else.
For your second question, do I like it? Absolutely. But the enjoyment comes more from the complete dislike I have of most groups in most MMOs. It has nothing to do with grouping with strangers and everything to do with not wanting to group with self-involved assholes. Groups in MMOs are not about success or failure of the group itself, but everyone wanting individual rewards for group efforts. In other words, every person in a group is using the rest for their own interests. You want XP, you group because you can get more XP faster that way. You want gold, you group because there are bigger rewards that way. You want better gear, you group because you can't get them any other way at your level. That's all grouping is. I have no interest in that. Even worse, most people in a group would willingly throw you to the wolves if you get into trouble to save their own skin, there's no real teamwork, no sacrifice, no attachment to the team, it's only there to get you something, if it falls apart and dies, you can just go find another team.
No thanks. I'm happier solo.
If you had bad experience grouping, doesn't mean everyone did.
Different strokes, for different folks, I guess.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I dont think the solution is banishing soloing, I wont lie, Ive done plenty of it in my day. However I think the problem lies in the fact that if everyone solos, it will make grouping obsolete. I prefer to group, however with soloing becoming more and more common place, it takes away from the pool of players who you could potentially be grouping with.
You ought to only expect to group with people who actually want to group. The potential pool of players is limited to those who want to do what you want to do, not the ones you want to force to do what you want to do. If grouping were to ever cease to exist because nobody wanted to do it, that would be a matter of survival of the fittest. It would die due to unpopularity and that unpopularity would have nothing whatsoever to do with soloing.
You want to group. Fine, I get that. Go ahead. Find other likeminded individuals and group to your heart's content. Can't find other likeminded individuals? That ought to tell you something. It's like real roleplayers. How many of them are on MMOs? Not many. Sure you get people who play the game, typing with a strange accent like that's roleplaying, but it's simply not. Why? Because MMOs aren't built for real roleplaying, the ability to do it is ridiculously limited. While I like roleplaying, I recognize that I won't be able to do it on an MMO and accept it. My roleplaying activities take place elsewhere.
The idea that you somehow have a right to force others to do something you enjoy so that you'll have someone to play with is ridiculous. You can only play with people who choose to play the way you do. If you cannot find those people, you're out of luck. You're not entitled to get what you want, simply because you want it. That's just reality.
If you had bad experience grouping, doesn't mean everyone did. Different strokes, for different folks, I guess.
It has nothing to do with bad experience grouping, although I've had many, many more bad experiences than good ones. I want to take my time, most groups I've been involved with want to run around like spastic chihuahuas, killing everything that moves as fast as possible so they can get more XP. I couldn't care less. I move methodically from room to room, kill what's there, loot corpses, open chests, search for hidden treasure, etc. There are very few groups who respect that.
But again, as I said, MMOs are just not built for groups, they are built for people to use each other to get individual rewards. Groups also tend to eliminate individuality. Every fighter has to be exactly the same as every other fighter so they fit seamlessly into the trinity. If you want to get into a group, you'd better have the expected complement of spells or armor or weapons and skills, otherwise they don't want you. You can't be an individual, you have to be a stereotype.
For the greatest happiness for the most players, games should be designed to neither encourage soloing nor make it impossible.
I fail to see the point in grouping with people that one can barely stand, just for the sake of being in a group. Otherwise, it's a tradeoff between how hard the other people one would group with are to get along with, and how much in the game can be accomplished without a group; everyone makes that tradeoff according to how much or how little they can stand of what kind of behaviour vs how badly they want to achieve a particular goal in a game.
Some folks are just not worth exposing oneself to if whatever one wants to do can be done later with someone else, or by oneself entirely, or if it can just be skipped. However, that's about the only time that a group wouldn't be welcome to me. I don't want the MMO game to make me and everyone else totally independent. I don't want to skip things, if that can be avoided.
Given that and taking it into account, there are times when the way I want to do things wouldn't suit most groups or schedules, and in those cases I wouldn't expect to find an interested group to go with me, but would still want to go do something. There are all kinds of good or tolerable reasons why, on occasion, I or anyone else might want to solo-- even if those occasions for some of us would be few and far between.
The best point I can make is that there's only one really bad reason to want to solo in an MMORPG, and that has nothing to do with the lack of time or of congenial or competent people to group with, nor with problems of pacing and lack of mutual interest, nor varying appetite for repetition. The bad reason would be that one preferred other people to not be real because, in Real Life, one thought of oneself as the only real person, anyhow. That's a good thumbnail definition of what used to be (very usefully) called a sociopath.
I am sure from how they act that some players who are soloing are doing so very much for that reason-- but not most of them. (Given that most of the heavy soloers I've known were nevertheless in a guild with me, my reckoning could happily be skewed on that point.)
I am happy for any of you who as players have never known anyone that you wished would only solo and never try to go out with a group because he was only able to act as if everyone else 'around' him was a non-person, but I would guess that there are few who have not.
------------------
"Wanting to solo" wouldn't include soloing while gold-farming, by the way. People who take that job are almost certainly not doing much of what they want to, and probably are doing a lot of things that most of us wouldn't want to do, because they have to. I am happy for them that they are not in a garment sweatshop, instead, and will save my indignation for the people who buy the gold.
Casilda Tametomo, Priestess of Soldeus | AKA Lepida Aegis-Imperium.com
«Si oblitus fuero usque ad finem omnia opera eorum»
I like to group to do raids or to help out my Corps/guildies. I generally dont like grouping with pugs because ppl for some reason keep dropping out for one reason or another. I would never play game that only had forced grouping only because a majority of the time it takes too long to get a group together and dont want to be dependant on othe rpeople to be online esp if a game subs were low.
A(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Janet Jackson hires the RavingRabbid to coregaph her next video!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
DISCLAIMER: During the course of the discussion, I've changed my mind, and agreed with a lot of arguments. I have no problem with soloers now, only with games and lackluster communities. Can we move on now? Please?
I seriously do. Look, this is not a flame thread. This is something, of a big question to the people, who play solo. Why? What draws you in? See... Let's be honest here. MMORPG's, as games in themselves... Kinda suck. They're repetetive, drawn-out, barely offer a coherent story and their fighting system is a droll. I can get a bazillion times more enjoyment from about any solid C/JRPG, released in the last 15 years. The point is... They are, in their core, better. Cheaper, even, especially in the long run. The time it takes to solo a char to the cap in a modern MMO is about the same, as the time it would take you to beat, say, Baldur's Gate. But with Baldur's Gate you're at least rewarded with a cutscene and some closure to the story. I understand the necessity of solo. Yes, it's unavoidable, since most people don't want to group with strangers. But why do people... Like it? P.S. Let's try to keep things civil, people. We can have an interesting discussion, if we try to keep our bile from spilling.
EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"
I'm going to go directly into the question you ask Why do people who prefer to play solo choose mmos in the first place?
For me I enjoy roleplaying games be they console or plc online/offline games. Having said that I also love the option to have harder content to tackle that can only be taken on with others which is an experience you can only get with an mmo. Now as a person who has always favored roleplaying games over any other style of game it would really only be logical that I would indulge in mmo's since they in essence are all roleplaying games. For me it is often why I find myself a little angered by snide comments about someones preference to solo as to grouping because from my experience most of what are in mmo's are not new they are the same systems we have been using for years with games like Phantasy Star,Final Fantasy series and others yet sometimes those who prefer to group want to look onto mmo's as something new that is being wrecked by those of us who just prefer role playing games.
In LOTRO which Ive played for over a year now I spend much more time in groups because I have actually made quite a few good friends I enjoy adventuring with but otherwise I'm loathe to engage in what often happens when grouping in a community you don't know or with people you don't know which can often be negative and honestly for me it peeves me enough that I don't mind avoiding grouping very often because again what I look for in games is the ability to live my characters life and often times regardless of how you see it mmo's do that much better than say Baldurs Gate even without the cut scenes and all.
While on the subject I would also like to relate an experience I had yesterday playing DDO. I had played the game twice before since it's inception but never with any real frequency well I started to find myself liking the game and played up to level three or so and ventured out into the game world. I was offered a group spot to run a dungeon on elite mode and after informing the group I was new but felt I can for the most part do my job joined up with them. We enter the dungeon and ask our rogue to disable a trap, to which he immediately runs straight through the trap and kills himself.While I'm thinking "wow, this guy must be newer than me." our healer chimes into the chat box with "YOU MUST BE THE WORST ROGUE I'VE EVER SEEN!". While I don't think that it's right to have gone to those extremes without atleast seeing if his behavior would continue I also don't feel the need to champion someone elses cause so I said nothing. We made our way further and further into the dungeon, eventually losing the rogue who never was able to disarm a single trap and I'm starting to feel good about this group. One of the last fights I notice the healer is spending more time fighting than actually healing and while this annoyed me I really didn't have a chance to say anything because I died right then. Luckily though this was the last boss for this section and I got quest completion upon seeing this I resurrected myself in a tavern and began making my way towards the dungeon again only to see "ARE YOU PEOPLE DUMB OR WHAT, I TOLD YOU NOT TO LEAVE THE DUNGEON UNTIL I DO!!". She had some other choice words that I missed because I was at the same time informing them that again I said I was new and that was actually my first and only mistake (and one that only hurt me by the way since I left that part of the dungeon I miss out on the exp reward) but I did not play to be spoken to like some underling or little brother and I kindly left.
That rather drawn out story are prime examples of the types of things that often happen when you are playing out and about with folks you don't know and as such I avoid it. Point being if I can have fun playing an mmo solo why go through all the bother of finding groups to join only to have assorted asshats ruin my fun?
I couldn't see myself wanting to play a game where I could never group for fun but I also do enjoy my playtime alone enough to consider my mmo experience worthwhile.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I understand the necessity of solo. Yes, it's unavoidable, since most people don't want to group with strangers. But why do people... Like it? EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"
I'll answer both questions, the second one first. I choose MMOs because they take longer to "complete". In a single-player game, I can finish the entire game in a matter of hours. I just ran through Dead Space again, for example, and finished the entire thing in less than 11 hours. After you do that... what's left? Delete it and install another one? With an MMO, even leveling as fast as you can, you're still looking at weeks and weeks (or months, depending on how often you play) before reaching the "end". Once you learn the "rules" and the control scheme, you don't have to keep modifying your thinking, unlike having to relearn how things work in a single-player game as you switch once a week or so. Secondly, having people to talk to, even if I don't want to play with them directly, is a lot of fun. I've spent many, many hours just sitting around chatting on an MMO with friends, not even playing the game. It does function very well as an online chatroom if you can find people you really want to talk to and since the chat functions are integral to the game itself, unlike using Twitter or an IM which interrupts the single-player game and probably gets you killed. Third, even in the most rigidly controlled themepark game, you still have a lot more freedom than you do in most single-player games. You can pick and choose what you do. If you get frustrated doing one thing, you can do something else.
For your second question, do I like it? Absolutely. But the enjoyment comes more from the complete dislike I have of most groups in most MMOs. It has nothing to do with grouping with strangers and everything to do with not wanting to group with self-involved assholes. Groups in MMOs are not about success or failure of the group itself, but everyone wanting individual rewards for group efforts. In other words, every person in a group is using the rest for their own interests. You want XP, you group because you can get more XP faster that way. You want gold, you group because there are bigger rewards that way. You want better gear, you group because you can't get them any other way at your level. That's all grouping is. I have no interest in that. Even worse, most people in a group would willingly throw you to the wolves if you get into trouble to save their own skin, there's no real teamwork, no sacrifice, no attachment to the team, it's only there to get you something, if it falls apart and dies, you can just go find another team.
No thanks. I'm happier solo.
I loved your statement about why people group in mmo's and that is partially what I was eluding to with my story about my experience in DDO. My philosphy on grouping is I really do it because I want to spend time in a group working cooperatively towards a goal and I've never cared much about gear but what you say is true most of the people I've played with (including those who only group) don't usually seem to care about that they want to succeed as quickly as possible and get there chance at phat lewt.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
My personal take on soloing in MMORPGS is its like sex vs masturbation. Sure it is much more satifying with another person but it is far more conveinient to just "sort yourself out".
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
My personal take on soloing in MMORPGS is its like sex vs masturbation. Sure it is much more satifying with another person but it is far more conveinient to just "sort yourself out".
DISCLAIMER: During the course of the discussion, I've changed my mind, and agreed with a lot of arguments. I have no problem with soloers now, only with games and lackluster communities. Can we move on now? Please?
I seriously do. Look, this is not a flame thread. This is something, of a big question to the people, who play solo. Why? What draws you in? See... Let's be honest here. MMORPG's, as games in themselves... Kinda suck. They're repetetive, drawn-out, barely offer a coherent story and their fighting system is a droll. I can get a bazillion times more enjoyment from about any solid C/JRPG, released in the last 15 years. The point is... They are, in their core, better. Cheaper, even, especially in the long run. The time it takes to solo a char to the cap in a modern MMO is about the same, as the time it would take you to beat, say, Baldur's Gate. But with Baldur's Gate you're at least rewarded with a cutscene and some closure to the story. I understand the necessity of solo. Yes, it's unavoidable, since most people don't want to group with strangers. But why do people... Like it? P.S. Let's try to keep things civil, people. We can have an interesting discussion, if we try to keep our bile from spilling.
EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"
I'm going to go directly into the question you ask Why do people who prefer to play solo choose mmos in the first place?
For me I enjoy roleplaying games be they console or plc online/offline games. Having said that I also love the option to have harder content to tackle that can only be taken on with others which is an experience you can only get with an mmo. Now as a person who has always favored roleplaying games over any other style of game it would really only be logical that I would indulge in mmo's since they in essence are all roleplaying games. For me it is often why I find myself a little angered by snide comments about someones preference to solo as to grouping because from my experience most of what are in mmo's are not new they are the same systems we have been using for years with games like Phantasy Star,Final Fantasy series and others yet sometimes those who prefer to group want to look onto mmo's as something new that is being wrecked by those of us who just prefer role playing games.
In LOTRO which Ive played for over a year now I spend much more time in groups because I have actually made quite a few good friends I enjoy adventuring with but otherwise I'm loathe to engage in what often happens when grouping in a community you don't know or with people you don't know which can often be negative and honestly for me it peeves me enough that I don't mind avoiding grouping very often because again what I look for in games is the ability to live my characters life and often times regardless of how you see it mmo's do that much better than say Baldurs Gate even without the cut scenes and all.
While on the subject I would also like to relate an experience I had yesterday playing DDO. I had played the game twice before since it's inception but never with any real frequency well I started to find myself liking the game and played up to level three or so and ventured out into the game world. I was offered a group spot to run a dungeon on elite mode and after informing the group I was new but felt I can for the most part do my job joined up with them. We enter the dungeon and ask our rogue to disable a trap, to which he immediately runs straight through the trap and kills himself.While I'm thinking "wow, this guy must be newer than me." our healer chimes into the chat box with "YOU MUST BE THE WORST ROGUE I'VE EVER SEEN!". While I don't think that it's right to have gone to those extremes without atleast seeing if his behavior would continue I also don't feel the need to champion someone elses cause so I said nothing. We made our way further and further into the dungeon, eventually losing the rogue who never was able to disarm a single trap and I'm starting to feel good about this group. One of the last fights I notice the healer is spending more time fighting than actually healing and while this annoyed me I really didn't have a chance to say anything because I died right then. Luckily though this was the last boss for this section and I got quest completion upon seeing this I resurrected myself in a tavern and began making my way towards the dungeon again only to see "ARE YOU PEOPLE DUMB OR WHAT, I TOLD YOU NOT TO LEAVE THE DUNGEON UNTIL I DO!!". She had some other choice words that I missed because I was at the same time informing them that again I said I was new and that was actually my first and only mistake (and one that only hurt me by the way since I left that part of the dungeon I miss out on the exp reward) but I did not play to be spoken to like some underling or little brother and I kindly left.
That rather drawn out story are prime examples of the types of things that often happen when you are playing out and about with folks you don't know and as such I avoid it. Point being if I can have fun playing an mmo solo why go through all the bother of finding groups to join only to have assorted asshats ruin my fun?
I couldn't see myself wanting to play a game where I could never group for fun but I also do enjoy my playtime alone enough to consider my mmo experience worthwhile.
Dude. First of all, as far as I'm aware, healers in DDO do not do in-fight heals, just like in regular DnD. You survive the fight, THEN you heal.
Secondly, imagine yourself in a situation, when you clearly explain everything, and then [people go and do things you specifically said NOT to do anyway. This can get extremely frustrating, and is a direct result of people not wanting to actually, I'm sorry to say that, learn how to play and LISTEN to their teammates.
Sorry, but you and that rogue are as much to blame, if not more, than her in the situation, which ticked her off.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I enjoy solo'ing in an mmo because, i may be on my own ventures but, i can see other "real" people running past me. People populating the environment around me and providing ambience definitely breaks up the solitude. I think i just "happen" to play solo but i enjoy others around. Even if i dont socialize with them. I play at a much slower pace than others and too often, everyone is rushing towards their objective. I like to kill every mob on the way to the quest objective sometime, and roleplay with my character inside of my own head lol. Play the game however you like to right?
sounds civil and agreeable. i solo too sometimes. soloing we get to be at our own pace and be at our own adventure. being in party sometimes you have rush.... like your party is going to a cave and you still stuck in town stocking up pots and ect... soloing is like being in alive world full of human players and we can show off with our cool gears.
also why soloers play in mmo....... why people live in earth if dont want to interact with other being?
and sometimes your party mate can be a bossy &ick.
those that despise solo in mmo = not openminded
i solo and party in mmo. but if someone kept being on my back and tell me what is right and what is wrong.... i shall show no mercy!
It's simple, I like to have the freedom of choice. I choose to play a mmo because I may have liked the reviews, graphics, design etc, and not because I solely like to group with others. I don't choose a mmo because I look at it and go "Oh wonderful ! There's 12 million people in this game for me to group with. Let's buy/play it now."
It's the same reason I choose to stay home some Saturdays just to watch a dvd, or play a game. Or I can go out to a club / pub to have a drink with some friends and/or maybe chat up some babes there. I don't choose to go to a club/pub simply because it's the hottest spot in town and I HAVE to be there because everyone else is.
If I play a mmo, I want to have the option to solo if I wish and to group if I wish. I don't want to be forced to solo nor group. It's got nothing to do with the whole load of crappy pugs that I've hooked up with in my time; nor is it the many excellent groups that I've been in where it's 5am and no one wants to quit cos the group works like a well oiled killing machine. It's not about the fact that I sometimes do like reading through a quest line or just generally running around looking for rare pops on my own.
It's called freedom of choice. And that's why I like to solo.
If you dont like to solo, then you dont need to see the point. ill just say this: its a personal choice. you like certain things, other people like different things. does this sound too hard to compute?
There we go again...
I forgot, that "civil" and "MMORPG.com" don't mesh.
Let me draw you an analogy. You get a choice of two burgers, absolutely identical, but the first one can only be eaten in a small group, and the other costs more, doesn't have the meat inside and you get to eat it in a room full of other people, eating the same burger. That's what solo looks like to me. I would really like to know where I am wrong.
1/10
Provoking analogy.
Here you are asking for a "civil" thread, then you come up with an analogy where you make soloers look like retards. You are talking about 2 ABSOLUTELY identical burgers; how come the one for the soloer is without meat then?! What are you meaning with this really, if it is not to provoke? Making comparisons where you make "soloers" look like they are retards or some kind of offspring of the society, will not be tolerated by most of us. It will end in a flamefest, and you are to be blamed yourself! Your TRUE intentions are coming out, as you clearly are after trouble with posting provocative nonsense like this.
I'm going to go directly into the question you ask Why do people who prefer to play solo choose mmos in the first place?
For me I enjoy roleplaying games be they console or plc online/offline games. Having said that I also love the option to have harder content to tackle that can only be taken on with others which is an experience you can only get with an mmo. Now as a person who has always favored roleplaying games over any other style of game it would really only be logical that I would indulge in mmo's since they in essence are all roleplaying games. For me it is often why I find myself a little angered by snide comments about someones preference to solo as to grouping because from my experience most of what are in mmo's are not new they are the same systems we have been using for years with games like Phantasy Star,Final Fantasy series and others yet sometimes those who prefer to group want to look onto mmo's as something new that is being wrecked by those of us who just prefer role playing games.
In LOTRO which Ive played for over a year now I spend much more time in groups because I have actually made quite a few good friends I enjoy adventuring with but otherwise I'm loathe to engage in what often happens when grouping in a community you don't know or with people you don't know which can often be negative and honestly for me it peeves me enough that I don't mind avoiding grouping very often because again what I look for in games is the ability to live my characters life and often times regardless of how you see it mmo's do that much better than say Baldurs Gate even without the cut scenes and all.
While on the subject I would also like to relate an experience I had yesterday playing DDO. I had played the game twice before since it's inception but never with any real frequency well I started to find myself liking the game and played up to level three or so and ventured out into the game world. I was offered a group spot to run a dungeon on elite mode and after informing the group I was new but felt I can for the most part do my job joined up with them. We enter the dungeon and ask our rogue to disable a trap, to which he immediately runs straight through the trap and kills himself.While I'm thinking "wow, this guy must be newer than me." our healer chimes into the chat box with "YOU MUST BE THE WORST ROGUE I'VE EVER SEEN!". While I don't think that it's right to have gone to those extremes without atleast seeing if his behavior would continue I also don't feel the need to champion someone elses cause so I said nothing. We made our way further and further into the dungeon, eventually losing the rogue who never was able to disarm a single trap and I'm starting to feel good about this group. One of the last fights I notice the healer is spending more time fighting than actually healing and while this annoyed me I really didn't have a chance to say anything because I died right then. Luckily though this was the last boss for this section and I got quest completion upon seeing this I resurrected myself in a tavern and began making my way towards the dungeon again only to see "ARE YOU PEOPLE DUMB OR WHAT, I TOLD YOU NOT TO LEAVE THE DUNGEON UNTIL I DO!!". She had some other choice words that I missed because I was at the same time informing them that again I said I was new and that was actually my first and only mistake (and one that only hurt me by the way since I left that part of the dungeon I miss out on the exp reward) but I did not play to be spoken to like some underling or little brother and I kindly left.
That rather drawn out story are prime examples of the types of things that often happen when you are playing out and about with folks you don't know and as such I avoid it. Point being if I can have fun playing an mmo solo why go through all the bother of finding groups to join only to have assorted asshats ruin my fun?
I couldn't see myself wanting to play a game where I could never group for fun but I also do enjoy my playtime alone enough to consider my mmo experience worthwhile.
Dude. First of all, as far as I'm aware, healers in DDO do not do in-fight heals, just like in regular DnD. You survive the fight, THEN you heal.
Wow. That's idiotic. Why even play a healer then and why ever group with one. They're not any more useful than bandages or sitting down to eat?? If this is true...I'm glad I didn't stick with DDO, because that's the dumbest mechanic for healing I've ever heard. What exactly is the point? Just saving time between fights? Is that the sole purpose of a healer in that game???
Secondly, imagine yourself in a situation, when you clearly explain everything, and then [people go and do things you specifically said NOT to do anyway. This can get extremely frustrating, and is a direct result of people not wanting to actually, I'm sorry to say that, learn how to play and LISTEN to their teammates.
OMFG....that paragraph is so full of arrogant elitism, I don't even know where to begin to comment.
First of all...everyone is NEW at some point, even the know-it-all asshat that was barking orders in this scenario. You don't TEACH people by barking at them or lording it over them like you're some kind of goddess. I wouldn't listen to that cocky bitch EITHER....just to spite her for her uppity attitude and shit for brains social skills.
It's a GAME...it's not a military exercise in a real life war zone. And that selfish attitude of "lrn2plaaaaa n00b" is not only juvenile, but one of the primary reasons that soloing is so appealing to so many people. Who PAYS MONEY to be treated like shit? Unless you're a masochist....NO ONE.
Sorry, but you and that rogue are as much to blame, if not more, than her in the situation, which ticked her off.
And of course since she's "ticked off," she has every RIGHT to treat the other party members like dog shit. Riiiiight. What a great example of the vast majority of modern day MMO players. Fortunately, there are still some people that don't behave this way just because their interactions are online and not face to face.
Comments
And you hate me, because?..
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
This quote is the promised land. too bad we're not all there. But us soloers are having a blast.
I'm having a blast playing Rayman Revolution. Does that count?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Replies to your reply
1. Most of my troops are credited in the "achievements" listings as having SOLOED a number of 5 and 10 man instances - that sucks?
And BTW - my 12 year old triplet grand-daughters are pretty good too - One has a lvl 80 Pally that kicks butt. I DON"T mind grouping with them.
2. You had no comment on that???
3. No one is stopping YOU from grouping - do it all you want - I REALLY don't care if you group or not.
4. That is exactly what I mean - the people in groups advance so fast that they have no time to learn how to play their class. I have lvl 36 Mage that I have soloed just to see how hard they are to keep alive. The only time that troop has died so far is when I was knocked off the server and logged back on dead. I see people in groups that have to stop and eat and drink after every skirmish. They are not smart enough to have a supply of instant heals and mana regenerators that they can use in order to NOT hold up the rest of the group while THEY regenerate. And then there are those high level troops that have to beg to get the money to buy their next mount. ALL my troops have a couple of hundred gold by the time they are lvl 15.
5. I am not asking anyone to support my playing - I interact to the extent that I want to - not what someone else wants me to. I am interested in being in a massively large world that I can explore to my hearts content without having to bother with anyone else's problems.
6. Yes - this CAN be done with one or more other people - but I am pretty choosy about who I associate with - in games as well as REAL life. And just to stifle your NEXT retort - NO I am NOT a hermit.
7. That is EXACTLY my point - as long as people are anonymous there will be this element - and what is to keep them from doing the same thing with another toon?
8. I have NEVER EVER seen any solo player bitch about the players who WANT to group - but I HAVE seen a lot of GROUPERS bitch about SOLO players. What is your point? You sound like a debating student I once knew in one of my College classes who just wanted to debate for the sake of debating. Never had any VALID points - just wanted to argue. Probably went on to become a lawyer. Didn't want to get a REAL job.
{mod edit}
haha.. cracked me up.
Personally, I think folks can play however they want. I don't have the time or the interest in caring how others play MMOs. Maybe you have too much free time on your hands? lol
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
Solo play has been going up in the last couple years, IMO.
Firstly, there's the tendency that you just don't want to deal with potential group problems (clashing personalities, etc). That will always be there in an MMO.
Lastly though, the far biggest reason, is the gameplay system itself promoting solo play. I'll use the old SWG (Pre-CU/NGE) as an example, since the gameplay and community did drastically change to show this.
** Experience Point Penalties while in a group: SWG later adopted a policy of XPs being drastically cut if you were in a group. A far different system when the game first came out when you had XP BONUSES while in a group. In the old system, it gave you incentive to be in a group. Even LotRO has XP penalties while in a group.
** Less Player Interdependence - Combat: When the character and combat system gives alot of abilities to an individual 'toon. For example most classes having a pretty decent self-heal ability. An ability such as good self healing reduces the reasoning why anyone would want to group up. Because you can do it all yourself. Or you have one of those "solo-friendly" classes intentionally placed in the game. In the old SWG, everyone had the opportunity to get healing ability, i.e. stimpack usage and certification. But you had to give up valuable skillpoints to do so, skillpoints that could really push your combat ability through the roof. And if you really wanted better healing, you needed to devote alot more into it. Later in the game, EVERYONE got self-healing abilities as part of your levelling and progression. Not excellent healing, but good enough to get the job done.
** Less Player Interdependence - Economy: This is a big one here. Everyone these days in most MMOs has extensive crafting abilities, going so far as being Grandmasters or something like that in several arts, at no cost to one's own acquired combat ability. What this means is that everyone can craft well. It also doesn't help that crafting is simplistic. The old SWG had a thriving player-driven economy. There was a clear dividing line between the hardcore combat players and the (believe it or not) hardcore crafter / merchant players. To be good in combat, you couldn't be a good crafter. Vice versa if you wanted to be a good crafter. You just would suck in combat. But the gameplay experience for crafters was actually good, there was an extensive crafting system in place that was as deep as the possibilities in combat. It also helped immensely that crafters made all the items / gear you needed and wanted.
It also helped that there was item decay, meaning every piece of gear breaks eventually. You needed replacements. Crafters of course knew this, and there was excellent competition between them to attract customers, but more importantly, to keep you coming back for more. Prices were competetive; driven by what the players wanted. You of course could be one of those douches and demand insane prices for your goods, but you're not going to get much business. Because you could get just as good gear from some other guys and at fair prices. As a combat oriented player, I got all my gear at fair, competetive prices. I shopped around for the best deal. There were certain crafters I would regularly return to because of the quality of goods and pricing. Heck, to build a number of better gear, crafters required dropped materials that they themselves simply couldn't go out and get, because it involves dangerous combat. On the flip side, you could be a combat player, need this fancy blaster, but recall that you have rare materials that a crafter could use to build that blaster. So, you work out a deal with your weaponsmith buddy to build you this weapon at a far cheaper cost since you provided the rare materials.
There was plenty of good gear for sale, and at competitive pricing in the old days of SWG. Crafters were just as vital to the game as anyone else is. Alot of MMO systems out there give any single toon the ability to fight well, gather resources, and craft at the highest tiers, all with one character. What this does it gives even less reason to work with other players, because again, your own toon can do everything.
** Less Player Interdependence - Non Combat: The old SWG had an interesting system in place. Combat players after a length of time of fighting slowly accrued wounds and fatigue. Wounds were semi-permanent penalties to your health pool, for example. Meaning your maximum health slowly goes down over time while in the field, fighting. Fatigue is something you accrued also, which affected how well you fight. Stay out fighting too long and your performance drops. You fight poorly and your max health and such starts going down.
After so long, you needed to go back to town to recover. You go to the medical center. Doctor players were there to heal away those wounds. You tip them for their services and chat a little bit. Oftenly I ran into the same docs at the same med centers. You get to know other players more and more because you see them all the time, need something from them. Small talk about them asking how it's going out there in the field, me asking how things are in town, and how business is going. So, that all took care of wounds, now you need to take care of fatigue. You'd hop over to the Cantina (a bar / club area in town). In the simplest of terms, all you basically needed was to watch / listen to one of the active player Entertainers there. There'd be dancers, bands, solo instrumentalists, etc. They were actual players. You watch / listen to them, and your fatigue eventually goes away. But in actual gameplay, there was far more going on in the Cantina. The Cantinas were frequently major player hubs, due to how the system worked. Even better, some Cantinas were so jam packed with players that it was ridiculous. If you can remember being in a packed bar or club in real life, that's how it was in some of the Cantinas in the old SWG. Entertainers doing their thing, combat guys coming in to rest and recover fatigue. There may be Entertainers that you regularly return to out of familiarity and loyalty, just like your favorite merchant. You pay them for their services and could move on. But the funny thing is, that you can run into friends in the cantina, or meet new ones, and end up chatting there for a long time.
The funny thing was that the good Entertainers had poor to no combat ability. These people were totally dedicated to the Entertainment and social aspect of the game. Helping people recover and chatting. Some entertainers were very well known. Heck, there could be that one great Twi'lek dancer that you keep watching and chat with all the time, since you see her there alot.
============
I provided once major example of a single MMO that at one point had it right as far as solo play and encouraging group play, and socializing with other players. I had my bouts of hermit play, but in general, it was surprising for me NOT to be even in a small adventuring group for an entire session in the old SWG. And it was close to impossible to not interact with players in getting your day to day business done.
What this all meant, at least to me as a combat guy in the old version of the game, was that I felt I was part of a big, tight knit player community on that server. My friends list was big, you meet new people all the time. I was loyal to certain merchants and entertainers.
Lastly, one of the biggest indicators of any MMO community (IMO) is how new players are treated. In the old SWG, new players got assistance from veterans as to how to play the game. Show them the ropes, help them get their first couple skillboxes, etc. I'm not talking about handout items, I'm talking about showing them how to play. The game originally had no tutorial whatsoever, and the gameplay was sophisticated, but we vets took the opportunity to show the newbies the ropes so that they can handle themselves. The same happened for me when I first started the game. The game was hard when you first start since it wasn't your traditional class + level system, but when shown how to play by a veteran, the veil was lifted. As a veteran player, I took the opportunity to find a new player having a tough time (watch out for those Kreetles! lol), take them under my wing for a few hours, and show them how to get the business done. It also helped, that I was decked out in Stormtrooper armor, which really helps in their immersion that they were playing a Star Wars MMO (and helps in Imperial recruiting drives). It also helped the new players see that they were joining an active community. We took care of our own (well, at least in between Rebels and Imperials blasting e ach other).
I've gone on onto several different MMOs, and the group play and community paled in comparison to what I experienced in the old days of SWG. Groups form up and then disband immediately right after a specific quest, oftenly with not even a "bye!" "later!" or "good luck!". I've been in MMOs where these short term groups are formed, nobody talks to each other other than instructions for the fight or quest. I've been in MMOs where I look at bazaars and such, look at the crafted gear and say to myself, "Why would I want to buy that? The next quest I finish will give me the same type of item and just as good or better." I've been on MMOs where general chat has no traffic, or even in player hubs, nobody talks to each other. I've been in MMOs where there's so many solo players running around but having no desire to group with others. I've been in MMOs where people get upset when you try to help them out (partly because there's a huge XP loss if they receive HELP FROM OTHER PLAYERS).
So, what we're dealing with here is the natural tendency for people to keep to themselves. But the implemented gameplay system by developers plays a HUGE role as to why peope would group up or work with each other. I started out as a solo player when I got to the old version of SWG. But that MMO and community made me a hardcore group player and participant in the community. Later MMOs I tried after SWG went south haven't offered that same experience in groups and player interaction. Some go so far as actually being a single-player RPG but you're paying money for after the date of purchase.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
To respond, Let me ask you, what's the point of being a lone wolf if you really are the only wolf? It's fun to be in a persistent world with people all around you living their virtual lives while you slip in and out of social groups never really tying yourself down to anyone or anything. Taking opportunities where they come. You see even the solo player "interacts" with other players, in fact they love to interact with other players, it's not about avoiding them, it's just about the mystique of traveling alone through a hostile world. It's just a different way of playing a multiplayer game, its not the same in a singleplayer rpg.
Think about it, where's the fun in roleplaying a Hermit if there is no one to yell "get off my lawn" at?
WildStar is like if Ratchet and Clank had a baby with Beyond Good & Evil and that baby was raised by World of Warcraft and Spore and babysat on the weekends by the aliens from Space Jam. It's an ugly bastard worth a few laughs but not much else.
So, what we're dealing with here is the natural tendency for people to keep to themselves. But the implemented gameplay system by developers plays a HUGE role as to why peope would group up or work with each other. I started out as a solo player when I got to the old version of SWG. But that MMO and community made me a hardcore group player and participant in the community. Later MMOs I tried after SWG went south haven't offered that same experience in groups and player interaction. Some go so far as actually being a single-player RPG but you're paying money for after the date of purchase.
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Why doesn't this game exist anymore?..
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I play for 8months now solo in Darkfall ive accomplish alot now with progress character crafting and have my fun pvp trips all over world.
Know all my spots to farm good mats know place where i can pvp solo going to towns or farm spots kill players and i have still alot of fun doing it solo.
I met people ingame who i sometimes hunt or help or trade mats with, so i play mmo solo but still interact alot with community and chat play with other players and meeting them in town.
Most even respect my dicision that i play solo 99% are in clans.
Do i miss alot yes and no, i get sometimes chance to join a clan becouse some guys from my country are in that clan and im invited becouse im friend with my country men so i still see alot of game even tho im solo.
Solo is great in Darkfall becouse you have so much freedom and posibillity's to grow even when your solo, you have skills that you only can get in clantowns well i sneak in there go to npc that have my skill i need and leave sure sometimes ive been killed before manage get skill but hey its pvp and its fun:)
Solo is viable way to play:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Hiya,
I love to solo because it is too stressful to have to log out suddenly if I'm in a pug/group. Real life comes first and when my daughter, husband, elderly pets, elderly parents and in-laws need me- I log out instantly.
I play MMO's because I like an evolving world. I get new areas and quests every few months in my MMO to keep things exciting:)
Hiya,
I love to solo because it is too stressful to have to log out suddenly if I'm in a pug/group. Real life comes first and when my daughter, husband, elderly pets, elderly parents and in-laws need me- I log out instantly.
I play MMO's because I like an evolving world. I get new areas and quests every few months in my MMO to keep things exciting:)
Fair enough. Why can't we have more level-headed responses like that?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I'll answer both questions, the second one first. I choose MMOs because they take longer to "complete". In a single-player game, I can finish the entire game in a matter of hours. I just ran through Dead Space again, for example, and finished the entire thing in less than 11 hours. After you do that... what's left? Delete it and install another one? With an MMO, even leveling as fast as you can, you're still looking at weeks and weeks (or months, depending on how often you play) before reaching the "end". Once you learn the "rules" and the control scheme, you don't have to keep modifying your thinking, unlike having to relearn how things work in a single-player game as you switch once a week or so. Secondly, having people to talk to, even if I don't want to play with them directly, is a lot of fun. I've spent many, many hours just sitting around chatting on an MMO with friends, not even playing the game. It does function very well as an online chatroom if you can find people you really want to talk to and since the chat functions are integral to the game itself, unlike using Twitter or an IM which interrupts the single-player game and probably gets you killed. Third, even in the most rigidly controlled themepark game, you still have a lot more freedom than you do in most single-player games. You can pick and choose what you do. If you get frustrated doing one thing, you can do something else.
For your second question, do I like it? Absolutely. But the enjoyment comes more from the complete dislike I have of most groups in most MMOs. It has nothing to do with grouping with strangers and everything to do with not wanting to group with self-involved assholes. Groups in MMOs are not about success or failure of the group itself, but everyone wanting individual rewards for group efforts. In other words, every person in a group is using the rest for their own interests. You want XP, you group because you can get more XP faster that way. You want gold, you group because there are bigger rewards that way. You want better gear, you group because you can't get them any other way at your level. That's all grouping is. I have no interest in that. Even worse, most people in a group would willingly throw you to the wolves if you get into trouble to save their own skin, there's no real teamwork, no sacrifice, no attachment to the team, it's only there to get you something, if it falls apart and dies, you can just go find another team.
No thanks. I'm happier solo.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I'll answer both questions, the second one first. I choose MMOs because they take longer to "complete". In a single-player game, I can finish the entire game in a matter of hours. I just ran through Dead Space again, for example, and finished the entire thing in less than 11 hours. After you do that... what's left? Delete it and install another one? With an MMO, even leveling as fast as you can, you're still looking at weeks and weeks (or months, depending on how often you play) before reaching the "end". Once you learn the "rules" and the control scheme, you don't have to keep modifying your thinking, unlike having to relearn how things work in a single-player game as you switch once a week or so. Secondly, having people to talk to, even if I don't want to play with them directly, is a lot of fun. I've spent many, many hours just sitting around chatting on an MMO with friends, not even playing the game. It does function very well as an online chatroom if you can find people you really want to talk to and since the chat functions are integral to the game itself, unlike using Twitter or an IM which interrupts the single-player game and probably gets you killed. Third, even in the most rigidly controlled themepark game, you still have a lot more freedom than you do in most single-player games. You can pick and choose what you do. If you get frustrated doing one thing, you can do something else.
For your second question, do I like it? Absolutely. But the enjoyment comes more from the complete dislike I have of most groups in most MMOs. It has nothing to do with grouping with strangers and everything to do with not wanting to group with self-involved assholes. Groups in MMOs are not about success or failure of the group itself, but everyone wanting individual rewards for group efforts. In other words, every person in a group is using the rest for their own interests. You want XP, you group because you can get more XP faster that way. You want gold, you group because there are bigger rewards that way. You want better gear, you group because you can't get them any other way at your level. That's all grouping is. I have no interest in that. Even worse, most people in a group would willingly throw you to the wolves if you get into trouble to save their own skin, there's no real teamwork, no sacrifice, no attachment to the team, it's only there to get you something, if it falls apart and dies, you can just go find another team.
No thanks. I'm happier solo.
If you had bad experience grouping, doesn't mean everyone did.
Different strokes, for different folks, I guess.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
You ought to only expect to group with people who actually want to group. The potential pool of players is limited to those who want to do what you want to do, not the ones you want to force to do what you want to do. If grouping were to ever cease to exist because nobody wanted to do it, that would be a matter of survival of the fittest. It would die due to unpopularity and that unpopularity would have nothing whatsoever to do with soloing.
You want to group. Fine, I get that. Go ahead. Find other likeminded individuals and group to your heart's content. Can't find other likeminded individuals? That ought to tell you something. It's like real roleplayers. How many of them are on MMOs? Not many. Sure you get people who play the game, typing with a strange accent like that's roleplaying, but it's simply not. Why? Because MMOs aren't built for real roleplaying, the ability to do it is ridiculously limited. While I like roleplaying, I recognize that I won't be able to do it on an MMO and accept it. My roleplaying activities take place elsewhere.
The idea that you somehow have a right to force others to do something you enjoy so that you'll have someone to play with is ridiculous. You can only play with people who choose to play the way you do. If you cannot find those people, you're out of luck. You're not entitled to get what you want, simply because you want it. That's just reality.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
It has nothing to do with bad experience grouping, although I've had many, many more bad experiences than good ones. I want to take my time, most groups I've been involved with want to run around like spastic chihuahuas, killing everything that moves as fast as possible so they can get more XP. I couldn't care less. I move methodically from room to room, kill what's there, loot corpses, open chests, search for hidden treasure, etc. There are very few groups who respect that.
But again, as I said, MMOs are just not built for groups, they are built for people to use each other to get individual rewards. Groups also tend to eliminate individuality. Every fighter has to be exactly the same as every other fighter so they fit seamlessly into the trinity. If you want to get into a group, you'd better have the expected complement of spells or armor or weapons and skills, otherwise they don't want you. You can't be an individual, you have to be a stereotype.
No thanks.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
For the greatest happiness for the most players, games should be designed to neither encourage soloing nor make it impossible.
I fail to see the point in grouping with people that one can barely stand, just for the sake of being in a group. Otherwise, it's a tradeoff between how hard the other people one would group with are to get along with, and how much in the game can be accomplished without a group; everyone makes that tradeoff according to how much or how little they can stand of what kind of behaviour vs how badly they want to achieve a particular goal in a game.
Some folks are just not worth exposing oneself to if whatever one wants to do can be done later with someone else, or by oneself entirely, or if it can just be skipped. However, that's about the only time that a group wouldn't be welcome to me. I don't want the MMO game to make me and everyone else totally independent. I don't want to skip things, if that can be avoided.
Given that and taking it into account, there are times when the way I want to do things wouldn't suit most groups or schedules, and in those cases I wouldn't expect to find an interested group to go with me, but would still want to go do something. There are all kinds of good or tolerable reasons why, on occasion, I or anyone else might want to solo-- even if those occasions for some of us would be few and far between.
The best point I can make is that there's only one really bad reason to want to solo in an MMORPG, and that has nothing to do with the lack of time or of congenial or competent people to group with, nor with problems of pacing and lack of mutual interest, nor varying appetite for repetition. The bad reason would be that one preferred other people to not be real because, in Real Life, one thought of oneself as the only real person, anyhow. That's a good thumbnail definition of what used to be (very usefully) called a sociopath.
I am sure from how they act that some players who are soloing are doing so very much for that reason-- but not most of them. (Given that most of the heavy soloers I've known were nevertheless in a guild with me, my reckoning could happily be skewed on that point.)
I am happy for any of you who as players have never known anyone that you wished would only solo and never try to go out with a group because he was only able to act as if everyone else 'around' him was a non-person, but I would guess that there are few who have not.
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"Wanting to solo" wouldn't include soloing while gold-farming, by the way. People who take that job are almost certainly not doing much of what they want to, and probably are doing a lot of things that most of us wouldn't want to do, because they have to. I am happy for them that they are not in a garment sweatshop, instead, and will save my indignation for the people who buy the gold.
«Si oblitus fuero usque ad finem omnia opera eorum»
I like to group to do raids or to help out my Corps/guildies. I generally dont like grouping with pugs because ppl for some reason keep dropping out for one reason or another. I would never play game that only had forced grouping only because a majority of the time it takes too long to get a group together and dont want to be dependant on othe rpeople to be online esp if a game subs were low.
A(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Janet Jackson hires the RavingRabbid to coregaph her next video!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
I'm going to go directly into the question you ask Why do people who prefer to play solo choose mmos in the first place?
For me I enjoy roleplaying games be they console or plc online/offline games. Having said that I also love the option to have harder content to tackle that can only be taken on with others which is an experience you can only get with an mmo. Now as a person who has always favored roleplaying games over any other style of game it would really only be logical that I would indulge in mmo's since they in essence are all roleplaying games. For me it is often why I find myself a little angered by snide comments about someones preference to solo as to grouping because from my experience most of what are in mmo's are not new they are the same systems we have been using for years with games like Phantasy Star,Final Fantasy series and others yet sometimes those who prefer to group want to look onto mmo's as something new that is being wrecked by those of us who just prefer role playing games.
In LOTRO which Ive played for over a year now I spend much more time in groups because I have actually made quite a few good friends I enjoy adventuring with but otherwise I'm loathe to engage in what often happens when grouping in a community you don't know or with people you don't know which can often be negative and honestly for me it peeves me enough that I don't mind avoiding grouping very often because again what I look for in games is the ability to live my characters life and often times regardless of how you see it mmo's do that much better than say Baldurs Gate even without the cut scenes and all.
While on the subject I would also like to relate an experience I had yesterday playing DDO. I had played the game twice before since it's inception but never with any real frequency well I started to find myself liking the game and played up to level three or so and ventured out into the game world. I was offered a group spot to run a dungeon on elite mode and after informing the group I was new but felt I can for the most part do my job joined up with them. We enter the dungeon and ask our rogue to disable a trap, to which he immediately runs straight through the trap and kills himself.While I'm thinking "wow, this guy must be newer than me." our healer chimes into the chat box with "YOU MUST BE THE WORST ROGUE I'VE EVER SEEN!". While I don't think that it's right to have gone to those extremes without atleast seeing if his behavior would continue I also don't feel the need to champion someone elses cause so I said nothing. We made our way further and further into the dungeon, eventually losing the rogue who never was able to disarm a single trap and I'm starting to feel good about this group. One of the last fights I notice the healer is spending more time fighting than actually healing and while this annoyed me I really didn't have a chance to say anything because I died right then. Luckily though this was the last boss for this section and I got quest completion upon seeing this I resurrected myself in a tavern and began making my way towards the dungeon again only to see "ARE YOU PEOPLE DUMB OR WHAT, I TOLD YOU NOT TO LEAVE THE DUNGEON UNTIL I DO!!". She had some other choice words that I missed because I was at the same time informing them that again I said I was new and that was actually my first and only mistake (and one that only hurt me by the way since I left that part of the dungeon I miss out on the exp reward) but I did not play to be spoken to like some underling or little brother and I kindly left.
That rather drawn out story are prime examples of the types of things that often happen when you are playing out and about with folks you don't know and as such I avoid it. Point being if I can have fun playing an mmo solo why go through all the bother of finding groups to join only to have assorted asshats ruin my fun?
I couldn't see myself wanting to play a game where I could never group for fun but I also do enjoy my playtime alone enough to consider my mmo experience worthwhile.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I'll answer both questions, the second one first. I choose MMOs because they take longer to "complete". In a single-player game, I can finish the entire game in a matter of hours. I just ran through Dead Space again, for example, and finished the entire thing in less than 11 hours. After you do that... what's left? Delete it and install another one? With an MMO, even leveling as fast as you can, you're still looking at weeks and weeks (or months, depending on how often you play) before reaching the "end". Once you learn the "rules" and the control scheme, you don't have to keep modifying your thinking, unlike having to relearn how things work in a single-player game as you switch once a week or so. Secondly, having people to talk to, even if I don't want to play with them directly, is a lot of fun. I've spent many, many hours just sitting around chatting on an MMO with friends, not even playing the game. It does function very well as an online chatroom if you can find people you really want to talk to and since the chat functions are integral to the game itself, unlike using Twitter or an IM which interrupts the single-player game and probably gets you killed. Third, even in the most rigidly controlled themepark game, you still have a lot more freedom than you do in most single-player games. You can pick and choose what you do. If you get frustrated doing one thing, you can do something else.
For your second question, do I like it? Absolutely. But the enjoyment comes more from the complete dislike I have of most groups in most MMOs. It has nothing to do with grouping with strangers and everything to do with not wanting to group with self-involved assholes. Groups in MMOs are not about success or failure of the group itself, but everyone wanting individual rewards for group efforts. In other words, every person in a group is using the rest for their own interests. You want XP, you group because you can get more XP faster that way. You want gold, you group because there are bigger rewards that way. You want better gear, you group because you can't get them any other way at your level. That's all grouping is. I have no interest in that. Even worse, most people in a group would willingly throw you to the wolves if you get into trouble to save their own skin, there's no real teamwork, no sacrifice, no attachment to the team, it's only there to get you something, if it falls apart and dies, you can just go find another team.
No thanks. I'm happier solo.
I loved your statement about why people group in mmo's and that is partially what I was eluding to with my story about my experience in DDO. My philosphy on grouping is I really do it because I want to spend time in a group working cooperatively towards a goal and I've never cared much about gear but what you say is true most of the people I've played with (including those who only group) don't usually seem to care about that they want to succeed as quickly as possible and get there chance at phat lewt.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
My personal take on soloing in MMORPGS is its like sex vs masturbation. Sure it is much more satifying with another person but it is far more conveinient to just "sort yourself out".
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Haha! Not to mention safer. ;P
I'm going to go directly into the question you ask Why do people who prefer to play solo choose mmos in the first place?
For me I enjoy roleplaying games be they console or plc online/offline games. Having said that I also love the option to have harder content to tackle that can only be taken on with others which is an experience you can only get with an mmo. Now as a person who has always favored roleplaying games over any other style of game it would really only be logical that I would indulge in mmo's since they in essence are all roleplaying games. For me it is often why I find myself a little angered by snide comments about someones preference to solo as to grouping because from my experience most of what are in mmo's are not new they are the same systems we have been using for years with games like Phantasy Star,Final Fantasy series and others yet sometimes those who prefer to group want to look onto mmo's as something new that is being wrecked by those of us who just prefer role playing games.
In LOTRO which Ive played for over a year now I spend much more time in groups because I have actually made quite a few good friends I enjoy adventuring with but otherwise I'm loathe to engage in what often happens when grouping in a community you don't know or with people you don't know which can often be negative and honestly for me it peeves me enough that I don't mind avoiding grouping very often because again what I look for in games is the ability to live my characters life and often times regardless of how you see it mmo's do that much better than say Baldurs Gate even without the cut scenes and all.
While on the subject I would also like to relate an experience I had yesterday playing DDO. I had played the game twice before since it's inception but never with any real frequency well I started to find myself liking the game and played up to level three or so and ventured out into the game world. I was offered a group spot to run a dungeon on elite mode and after informing the group I was new but felt I can for the most part do my job joined up with them. We enter the dungeon and ask our rogue to disable a trap, to which he immediately runs straight through the trap and kills himself.While I'm thinking "wow, this guy must be newer than me." our healer chimes into the chat box with "YOU MUST BE THE WORST ROGUE I'VE EVER SEEN!". While I don't think that it's right to have gone to those extremes without atleast seeing if his behavior would continue I also don't feel the need to champion someone elses cause so I said nothing. We made our way further and further into the dungeon, eventually losing the rogue who never was able to disarm a single trap and I'm starting to feel good about this group. One of the last fights I notice the healer is spending more time fighting than actually healing and while this annoyed me I really didn't have a chance to say anything because I died right then. Luckily though this was the last boss for this section and I got quest completion upon seeing this I resurrected myself in a tavern and began making my way towards the dungeon again only to see "ARE YOU PEOPLE DUMB OR WHAT, I TOLD YOU NOT TO LEAVE THE DUNGEON UNTIL I DO!!". She had some other choice words that I missed because I was at the same time informing them that again I said I was new and that was actually my first and only mistake (and one that only hurt me by the way since I left that part of the dungeon I miss out on the exp reward) but I did not play to be spoken to like some underling or little brother and I kindly left.
That rather drawn out story are prime examples of the types of things that often happen when you are playing out and about with folks you don't know and as such I avoid it. Point being if I can have fun playing an mmo solo why go through all the bother of finding groups to join only to have assorted asshats ruin my fun?
I couldn't see myself wanting to play a game where I could never group for fun but I also do enjoy my playtime alone enough to consider my mmo experience worthwhile.
Dude. First of all, as far as I'm aware, healers in DDO do not do in-fight heals, just like in regular DnD. You survive the fight, THEN you heal.
Secondly, imagine yourself in a situation, when you clearly explain everything, and then [people go and do things you specifically said NOT to do anyway. This can get extremely frustrating, and is a direct result of people not wanting to actually, I'm sorry to say that, learn how to play and LISTEN to their teammates.
Sorry, but you and that rogue are as much to blame, if not more, than her in the situation, which ticked her off.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
sounds civil and agreeable. i solo too sometimes. soloing we get to be at our own pace and be at our own adventure. being in party sometimes you have rush.... like your party is going to a cave and you still stuck in town stocking up pots and ect... soloing is like being in alive world full of human players and we can show off with our cool gears.
also why soloers play in mmo....... why people live in earth if dont want to interact with other being?
and sometimes your party mate can be a bossy &ick.
those that despise solo in mmo = not openminded
i solo and party in mmo. but if someone kept being on my back and tell me what is right and what is wrong.... i shall show no mercy!
sorry english english
It's simple, I like to have the freedom of choice. I choose to play a mmo because I may have liked the reviews, graphics, design etc, and not because I solely like to group with others. I don't choose a mmo because I look at it and go "Oh wonderful ! There's 12 million people in this game for me to group with. Let's buy/play it now."
It's the same reason I choose to stay home some Saturdays just to watch a dvd, or play a game. Or I can go out to a club / pub to have a drink with some friends and/or maybe chat up some babes there. I don't choose to go to a club/pub simply because it's the hottest spot in town and I HAVE to be there because everyone else is.
If I play a mmo, I want to have the option to solo if I wish and to group if I wish. I don't want to be forced to solo nor group. It's got nothing to do with the whole load of crappy pugs that I've hooked up with in my time; nor is it the many excellent groups that I've been in where it's 5am and no one wants to quit cos the group works like a well oiled killing machine. It's not about the fact that I sometimes do like reading through a quest line or just generally running around looking for rare pops on my own.
It's called freedom of choice. And that's why I like to solo.
There we go again...
I forgot, that "civil" and "MMORPG.com" don't mesh.
Let me draw you an analogy. You get a choice of two burgers, absolutely identical, but the first one can only be eaten in a small group, and the other costs more, doesn't have the meat inside and you get to eat it in a room full of other people, eating the same burger. That's what solo looks like to me. I would really like to know where I am wrong.
1/10
Provoking analogy.
Here you are asking for a "civil" thread, then you come up with an analogy where you make soloers look like retards. You are talking about 2 ABSOLUTELY identical burgers; how come the one for the soloer is without meat then?! What are you meaning with this really, if it is not to provoke? Making comparisons where you make "soloers" look like they are retards or some kind of offspring of the society, will not be tolerated by most of us. It will end in a flamefest, and you are to be blamed yourself! Your TRUE intentions are coming out, as you clearly are after trouble with posting provocative nonsense like this.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I'm going to go directly into the question you ask Why do people who prefer to play solo choose mmos in the first place?
For me I enjoy roleplaying games be they console or plc online/offline games. Having said that I also love the option to have harder content to tackle that can only be taken on with others which is an experience you can only get with an mmo. Now as a person who has always favored roleplaying games over any other style of game it would really only be logical that I would indulge in mmo's since they in essence are all roleplaying games. For me it is often why I find myself a little angered by snide comments about someones preference to solo as to grouping because from my experience most of what are in mmo's are not new they are the same systems we have been using for years with games like Phantasy Star,Final Fantasy series and others yet sometimes those who prefer to group want to look onto mmo's as something new that is being wrecked by those of us who just prefer role playing games.
In LOTRO which Ive played for over a year now I spend much more time in groups because I have actually made quite a few good friends I enjoy adventuring with but otherwise I'm loathe to engage in what often happens when grouping in a community you don't know or with people you don't know which can often be negative and honestly for me it peeves me enough that I don't mind avoiding grouping very often because again what I look for in games is the ability to live my characters life and often times regardless of how you see it mmo's do that much better than say Baldurs Gate even without the cut scenes and all.
While on the subject I would also like to relate an experience I had yesterday playing DDO. I had played the game twice before since it's inception but never with any real frequency well I started to find myself liking the game and played up to level three or so and ventured out into the game world. I was offered a group spot to run a dungeon on elite mode and after informing the group I was new but felt I can for the most part do my job joined up with them. We enter the dungeon and ask our rogue to disable a trap, to which he immediately runs straight through the trap and kills himself.While I'm thinking "wow, this guy must be newer than me." our healer chimes into the chat box with "YOU MUST BE THE WORST ROGUE I'VE EVER SEEN!". While I don't think that it's right to have gone to those extremes without atleast seeing if his behavior would continue I also don't feel the need to champion someone elses cause so I said nothing. We made our way further and further into the dungeon, eventually losing the rogue who never was able to disarm a single trap and I'm starting to feel good about this group. One of the last fights I notice the healer is spending more time fighting than actually healing and while this annoyed me I really didn't have a chance to say anything because I died right then. Luckily though this was the last boss for this section and I got quest completion upon seeing this I resurrected myself in a tavern and began making my way towards the dungeon again only to see "ARE YOU PEOPLE DUMB OR WHAT, I TOLD YOU NOT TO LEAVE THE DUNGEON UNTIL I DO!!". She had some other choice words that I missed because I was at the same time informing them that again I said I was new and that was actually my first and only mistake (and one that only hurt me by the way since I left that part of the dungeon I miss out on the exp reward) but I did not play to be spoken to like some underling or little brother and I kindly left.
That rather drawn out story are prime examples of the types of things that often happen when you are playing out and about with folks you don't know and as such I avoid it. Point being if I can have fun playing an mmo solo why go through all the bother of finding groups to join only to have assorted asshats ruin my fun?
I couldn't see myself wanting to play a game where I could never group for fun but I also do enjoy my playtime alone enough to consider my mmo experience worthwhile.
Dude. First of all, as far as I'm aware, healers in DDO do not do in-fight heals, just like in regular DnD. You survive the fight, THEN you heal.
Wow. That's idiotic. Why even play a healer then and why ever group with one. They're not any more useful than bandages or sitting down to eat?? If this is true...I'm glad I didn't stick with DDO, because that's the dumbest mechanic for healing I've ever heard. What exactly is the point? Just saving time between fights? Is that the sole purpose of a healer in that game???
Secondly, imagine yourself in a situation, when you clearly explain everything, and then [people go and do things you specifically said NOT to do anyway. This can get extremely frustrating, and is a direct result of people not wanting to actually, I'm sorry to say that, learn how to play and LISTEN to their teammates.
OMFG....that paragraph is so full of arrogant elitism, I don't even know where to begin to comment.
First of all...everyone is NEW at some point, even the know-it-all asshat that was barking orders in this scenario. You don't TEACH people by barking at them or lording it over them like you're some kind of goddess. I wouldn't listen to that cocky bitch EITHER....just to spite her for her uppity attitude and shit for brains social skills.
It's a GAME...it's not a military exercise in a real life war zone. And that selfish attitude of "lrn2plaaaaa n00b" is not only juvenile, but one of the primary reasons that soloing is so appealing to so many people. Who PAYS MONEY to be treated like shit? Unless you're a masochist....NO ONE.
Sorry, but you and that rogue are as much to blame, if not more, than her in the situation, which ticked her off.
And of course since she's "ticked off," she has every RIGHT to treat the other party members like dog shit. Riiiiight. What a great example of the vast majority of modern day MMO players. Fortunately, there are still some people that don't behave this way just because their interactions are online and not face to face.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club