Honestly I think the majority of the problems in this thread simply require you to wait for more info. We know there's more coming. Is it better to fly off the handle before or after you have all the information?
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Seems like good ole Dan kicked off Klingon month in STYLE! First, let me apologize that info has been slow to get out. Believe it or not, December was supposed to "klingon" month. I have zero clue why it's Dec. 15th and still nothing, but I can tell you this WILL change (I just saw the threads yesterday). Secondly, yes, Klingon gameplay is almost entirely PvP. We are trying to get some PvE in (there's already a tad bit). And, if the players demand it, we'll add more content (like episodes). I want us to be agile as a company and respond to what the customers want. Third, I'll reiterate my point in the other thread. I'm most excited about playing a Klingon. I love combat in a bird of prey. Klingons are getting attention - from me. It's not as much as I'd want, but we have a foundation that we can grow into. If people like the federation gameplay, we can put that in for the Klingons. If players have a different set of requests for klingons, we can do that instead. We can make STO into the game that YOU want. I'll close with that. MMORPG's aren't just about release. They're about community and the years of gameplay. Disappointed that there isn't more Klingon gameplay? Play STO, tell us what you'd like and we can deliver that. Every passing day, we can make STO into what the fans want.
Some hope for the future here and if it bothers you that the Klingons are mostly PVP go to the official forums and YELL!
I think he has a mindset that federation players will be switching to klingon once they are available. He's forgetting that a lot of people were looking forward to NOT playing the federation because many players have been there and done that many times already. He's right in that the majority of the players will most likely be federation but klingons were probably the most popular villians in the whole lineage of Star Trek. Go to a convention and what race is the most represented? Klingons are cool because they are the exact opposite from the federation. The federation believes in diplomacy while the Klingons prefer conquering. I think having an anti-federation faction would be the right way to go. Not everyone wants to be the goody toeshoes faction. This reminds me of when SOE gave all their attention to jedi and then wondered why no one wanted to play anything else in SWG.
Seems like the real question is "How many Griefers" did Cryptic just lose? It's dreadful, not being able to PvP all those horrible PvE'ers who ruin the game by not wanting to get ganked. What right do they have demanding consentual PvP, when they should understand that they are paying for the privilage of gratifying the Griefer's ego. Damn them.
Cryptic's stated position was, and AFAIK still is that PvP is optional...how are they losing griefers? You were NEVER going to be running around cloaked ganking noob Fed players. If they're losing anyone, it's people who wanted to play Klingons without having to PvP 100% of the time.
I'm talking about the people upset that they can only PvP in designated zones rather than attacking any time, anywhere. People still complaining that PvP is in fact optional, as though this is somehow a new development.
The game -might- fail, but I doubt it. I for one am glad with the changes. The idea of having to wait around for someone who wants to play the communications officer? Yeah, pugging the EDO Guardian, need two science officers and an engineer!
Not. No thank you. As for the Klingon play, well, that is a bummer but it's not going to -kill- this game anymore than LOTRO is dead. One thing Cryptic -is- good at is adding stuff in after lunch. Or at least they used to be, can't be certain that holds true now. With Klingons mostly being PVP at the start then those players who want a lot of PvP will be able to go and fight. People will pvp at -every- level they can. Wether it's for a break from other stuff, or just a matter of wanting to get some fun in with limited time.
Tabula Rasa is fail. Matrix Online is fail. I doubt STO is going to fail. If SWG is still going, then STO is going to go. You -cannot- make a single product that appeals to EVERYONE. It's just not going to happen. Ever. Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it's going to suck for everyone.
VP of Marketing: "If we make a Star Trek MMO we will get a 5% return on our investment or 500,000$."
VP of Finance: "We don't have the 10,000,000$ needed to make a Star Trek MMO, we can only secure 5 million dollars from our investors."
CEO: "Lets make half a mmo, we will have half the subsciptions but still make 5% on our initial investment, our investors will be happy and we will still get our bonus checks in May."
Honestly I think the majority of the problems in this thread simply require you to wait for more info. We know there's more coming. Is it better to fly off the handle before or after you have all the information?
They've explicitly stated there is no PvE content of any significance. They've said this several times now even in response to the uproar. This isn't somehow going to change when they release new information. If you wanted to play a Klingon, perhaps because you like Klingon culture or the honorable warrior motif, and you don't want to PvP constantly, then you won't be happy with the game at release. That's just the facts.
Like I've said before, I'm sure they'll have information on PvP, though the fact it is completely untested (not part of beta at all) is not a good sign. It's likely to be very unbalanced. Nonetheless, there is certainly more information for them to share about the Klingons. After all, they haven't said much of anything about them. The new information isn't going to change what we already know though, and the people who wanted PvE Klingon content are fully justified in expressing their unhappiness now. It also won't change the fact that people expecting a fully playable Klingon faction were essentially mislead by Cryptic not mentioning the fact Klingons don't have PvE content even though they must have known about this for a good while now. They promised two full factions, and this is what we get. What other things that they've said will be in the game but haven't talked about aren't going to show up fully implemented?
BTW...don't knock SOE they are responsible for probably 90% of MMORPG mechanics you see in games,and most developers have chosen to outright copy their formula's for game design.SOE also runs the Playstation witch is still number one in the world,MOST of their elite staff is working for games in their console division,so quit the SOE bashing ,they produce/publish more good games than all other developers have games in total.Bashing SOE is just plain ignorance.
SOE does NOT run Playstation - The Playstation consoles are handled by SCE: Sony Computer Entertainment. It is a completely separate division staffed by completely different people. And for the record, the great majority of people responsible for the mmo mechanics which have been so copied by others no longer work at SOE - they moved on not long after Everquest 1, after the Velious Expansion rolled out. And ever since then, everything SOE has done has been mediocre success at best and abysmal failure at worst. Be careful of accusing others of ignorance when you're potentially ignorant yourself.
Name an SOE MMO that has shut down since EQ1. abysmal failure would be the shutting down of a game and since SOE have not done that, to my knowledge, they haven't had any abysmal failures. SWG was a success until NGE but even today enough people play and enjoy the game to make enough to keep the game running. SOE aren't as bad as most people make them out to be.
Matrix Online..........
Wow people sure fast to jump into the fire when they hear a little bit of news, why not jsut wait a while longer until the information is expanded upon.
oh wait thats right, can't whine if we we wait for stuff to be clarified
And... because I know someone's going to say it... No, SOE didn't develop MxO, Monolith did, and ran it for a time before it was sold to SOE.
However, at that point, they became its custodians and developers and had been so - at least post launch - for far longer than Monolith was. In that role, they did very little with it and eventually shut it down completely.
So yes, SOE has had a game shut down post EQ1.
Dragging this topic even further off-track (for which I do apologise and promise to get back on track before the end of this post)...
SOE, as of 1 April 2008 (no, it was not an April Fool's joke), became part of the SCEI corporate umbrella.
Above is the link to the Curse.com report, but if you browse around the SOE forums, you will find several posts, made by Community Staff on various game boards, referring to the merger there. SCEI has been responsible for every decision made by SOE for more than 20 months now, just so you are aware - and yes, that includes the craptastic business decisions (zombies in Star Wars? Really? So glad I walked away from that game before that update hit...) along with the brilliant ones.
Regarding the lack of Klingons as a playable race in STO...well, I started losing interest in STO as soon as I found out it would be made by the same folks who brought us City of Heroes. I played City of Heroes for a few months and, despite my love of superheroes and customization, could not get past the repetition and complete lack of any kind of meaningful lore in the game. Blatantly ignoring Star Trek lore (as in the popularity of Klingons culminating in the character of Worf in TNG and continuing with Worf, Martok, Grilka, Kahless, and others in DS9), it seems unwise to me to virtually ignore such a prominent Star Trek race. Then again, I don't much care what they do to it because unless this game were being made by a company I respected - which it isn't - the likelihood of my spending even a penny on it is about the same as the likelihood of it snowing in hell this evening.
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
Well, i for one am not going to write a company off based on past games (Champions) because some of them were quite popular (City of Heroes). But past is past, it doesn't matter now. It's a clean slate, and im going to wait until i get my hands on it before i decide if i keep paying them or not. I have a feeling i will, because despite all the bad thing's the naysayers on here keep pointing out, few people are pointing out what is good, when quite frankly, there is. It's a star trek experience, weather it lacks what you define as the perfect experience, it will still be the best one out there. I will definately try it, explore the key sites, walk around DS9 to meet up with mates and go stir up trouble with some innocent species, kirk style.
Ya why is it people ONLY point out the bad? I don't know much about this game but who knows WoW thrives on PvE. I know I would try it if it was only PvE but that is mainly because I have never been a big PvP person. I like colaborating with others to kill monsters/npcs log off and I'm done for the day. Would be intersting going fomr planet to planet in that game as well should be a huge exploration game.
Truth be told it was always clear to those who follow the forums on the official site, that the klingons system of play would evolve around PvP, with some minor PvE on the side. This is not news to us who have been following it, but alot of fans have a right to be annoyed that no information has been released. Expect some by the end of this month. Until then, people should sit back, and wait for the word. THEN raise hell or whatever you want to do.
If you want to play klingon and do PvE well then im sorry to say its just not avaliable at the moment. I am confident, come launch, if enough people still ask for it, then Cryptic will deliver. We asked for interiors. They said, after launch we'll add them. They dropped the surprise on us that they'd have bridges as a start for us to use as mini social hubs, sort of like player housing. Thats progress. For them to be listening to the fans on the OFFICIAL forums (Yep, get your rear ends there if you want to actually be heard.) is definately a good sign. I mean, really. Do you really think they would come here for advice on how to improve their game? Or would they look at their own forums, and look to people who actually gave enough effort to sign on and show their support/interest.
I can't remember an MMO ever being released without some form of complaints. Especially one tackling a huge IP like Star Trek. Hell some people are evening sitting with 'I told you so' signs about SWTOR. Bioware, fail? Please. They've made that many brilliant quality games, that if they released an MMO of pure golden crap, then they'd still be looked at with respect.
Which leads me onto people not giving Cryptic the respect they deserve. I know for a fact people will respond like, "Respect for destroying the franchise?!" Yes, in your opinions only. You've never actually played the game so for starters the opinion is void until you can say you've tried it. Cryptic did something no one else dared to do. People need to remember that. (And no i dont like Cryptic really, i didnt like CoH/CoV, or CO, but i can respect them for picking up the pieces that Perpetual left behind.) Whoever says Perpetual would've done a better job needs their head examined. How can you trust a company to make a good game, who can't even look after themselves. It's crazy.
The best way forward, is to give it time. Wait! For OFFICIAL word, on the klingons. Truth be told Cryptic are probably not allowed to say anything so are struggling to explain the Klingon side of things to you in interviews, and podcasts. Just, wait for the official announcement. Have a little faith. (I'd just like to see the doubters actually point out what they like in the game. It'd make for good, or short reading.)
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
lol i think all this bit*&ing, moaning, and whining is sooo freaking hilarious. Just wait after release and when the game is thriving all you haters will be playing. I swear some people are just sooo impatient.
lol i think all this bit*&ing, moaning, and whining is sooo freaking hilarious. Just wait after release and when the game is thriving all you haters will be playing. I swear some people are just sooo impatient.
Impatiency has nothing to do with it. Game is 1.5 months to release and no Klingon content has been beta tested yet. So it boils down to two things. Either the Klingon faction has so little content that it requires very little beta testing and balancing or the Klingon faction will be full of bugs and imbalanced.
lol i think all this bit*&ing, moaning, and whining is sooo freaking hilarious. Just wait after release and when the game is thriving all you haters will be playing. I swear some people are just sooo impatient.
Impatiency has nothing to do with it. Game is 1.5 months to release and no Klingon content has been beta tested yet. So it boils down to two things. Either the Klingon faction has so little content that it requires very little beta testing and balancing or the Klingon faction will be full of bugs and imbalanced.
Pick your poison.
Both the same Poison really.
The people who want to play it now, will play it. The people who don't, wont. Thats as simple as it gets. It's true, because, alot of us have already made up our minds. I just dont see how or where people get the motivation from to take an interest in the forums of a game they've already decided not to participate in. It's insane. Okay, you voice an opinion and you move on, but it is always the same people, telling the same crowd of people (whom probably will play the game regardless) their doubts and thoughts.
At times it's similair to a child saying something over, and over, and over until they get what they want, or in this case, people to agree to their 'crusade' as it was. I say crusade because the will power to constantly fire shots at this game day in, day out, probably requires some kind of amazing endurance.
Im sorry to say though, it's the same people everytime, and nothing has come of it. The same points go back and forward until a next day comes on the calender, and guess what? The same arguement's continue. New things arent brought up, it's the same thing all the time. It's a shame you can't come here to really find out 'balanced' views of this title, because mmorpg.com really do a good job at getting all the information we want to see, but again, people are jumping ahead of the information we're getting and deciding things before any announcement has been made.
If you haven't played it. Haven't seen it announced on Startrekonline.com, then treat it as fiction.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
How cool it would be if Kilngons were cash shop only item?
Haha, every time I think I heard it all about STO and thinking it just cant get any worse this "game" surprises me with even more bs and takes pathetic to a whole new level.
I'm gonna start making bets with friends on what the next bs bomb droped by Cryptic will be.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
I say forget Klingons for now and just have a PVE game until a few months into the game. Then when all the inevitable bugs are worked out of it see if they want to mess with PVP.
Originally posted by Maverz290 Both the same Poison really.
The people who want to play it now, will play it. The people who don't, wont. Thats as simple as it gets. It's true, because, alot of us have already made up our minds. I just dont see how or where people get the motivation from to take an interest in the forums of a game they've already decided not to participate in. It's insane. Okay, you voice an opinion and you move on, but it is always the same people, telling the same crowd of people (whom probably will play the game regardless) their doubts and thoughts.
If you bothered to read this thread, you would have seen a dozen or more people say that this changed their minds. Yeah, there are people for whom this new information doesn't change anything, but there are also plenty for whom it does make a difference.
Originally posted by Maverz290 Both the same Poison really.
The people who want to play it now, will play it. The people who don't, wont. Thats as simple as it gets. It's true, because, alot of us have already made up our minds. I just dont see how or where people get the motivation from to take an interest in the forums of a game they've already decided not to participate in. It's insane. Okay, you voice an opinion and you move on, but it is always the same people, telling the same crowd of people (whom probably will play the game regardless) their doubts and thoughts.
If you bothered to read this thread, you would have seen a dozen or more people say that this changed their minds. Yeah, there are people for whom this new information doesn't change anything, but there are also plenty for whom it does make a difference.
but also at the same time when it was said in the interview and i quote "klingons will not have pve but mainly pvp atm at launch but cant give anymore info about it, but long story short more will be coming though." Why get all pissy about that then if its gonna come at a later date. Why does our society now these days want everything now now now. Hence the phrase save the best for last.
Originally posted by Maverz290 Both the same Poison really.
The people who want to play it now, will play it. The people who don't, wont. Thats as simple as it gets. It's true, because, alot of us have already made up our minds. I just dont see how or where people get the motivation from to take an interest in the forums of a game they've already decided not to participate in. It's insane. Okay, you voice an opinion and you move on, but it is always the same people, telling the same crowd of people (whom probably will play the game regardless) their doubts and thoughts.
If you bothered to read this thread, you would have seen a dozen or more people say that this changed their minds. Yeah, there are people for whom this new information doesn't change anything, but there are also plenty for whom it does make a difference.
but also at the same time when it was said in the interview and i quote "klingons will not have pve but mainly pvp atm at launch but cant give anymore info about it, but long story short more will be coming though." Why get all pissy about that then if its gonna come at a later date. Why does our society now these days want everything now now now. Hence the phrase save the best for last.
They said there'd be two full factions at launch. There are not. The Klingons, by their own admission are not done and they ran out of time. Considering the early release schedule, is there much doubt there are other things they aren't talking about because they are also rushed? That said, I think it is justifiable for people to be upset about the Klingons only and not be interested in paying Cryptic to beta-test a game until it is actually finished. One could take this argument further, if the game was just a box at launch, no disc, no software, no nothing, but they said "just pay us the money and we'll get it all later!" would people have a right to be upset? YES. If the company said the box would have V, W, X, Y, and Z in it, and but Z is only half-done, do people have a right to not want the product? YES. It was not what they thought it would be.
Turning your phrase around, it seems Cryptic wants player money, now, now, now! They will not wait and be patient until their game has on the starting elements they want and instead just want people to pony up the cash for an unfinished product. Heck, they haven't even done any beta testing of PvP mechanics (which is basically all of Klingon gameplay)! Hold the company to at least the same standard you hold the consumers, please.
People ALWAYS flip out on the forums and run around yelling about how this or that changed their minds. This is nothing different. Also, always remember that us here on the forums are the vocal minority. There are nowhere near as many of us posting here as there are waiting and looking forward to the game.
In the end, I'm sure all of us will be more than happy to try the Open Beta, since it is free. That will be the true test, not these forum wars where people say things for effect as much as opinion.
I have certainly been looking forward to the Klingon faction the most, but having not personally played the Klingons, I will wait until I have a chance to get my hands on them before I make my decision on whether I'm happy with their playstyle or not.
It is a sage piece of advice to actually wait and see something with your own eyes before you make a decision on it.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Originally posted by Maverz290 Both the same Poison really.
The people who want to play it now, will play it. The people who don't, wont. Thats as simple as it gets. It's true, because, alot of us have already made up our minds. I just dont see how or where people get the motivation from to take an interest in the forums of a game they've already decided not to participate in. It's insane. Okay, you voice an opinion and you move on, but it is always the same people, telling the same crowd of people (whom probably will play the game regardless) their doubts and thoughts.
If you bothered to read this thread, you would have seen a dozen or more people say that this changed their minds. Yeah, there are people for whom this new information doesn't change anything, but there are also plenty for whom it does make a difference.
but also at the same time when it was said in the interview and i quote "klingons will not have pve but mainly pvp atm at launch but cant give anymore info about it, but long story short more will be coming though." Why get all pissy about that then if its gonna come at a later date. Why does our society now these days want everything now now now. Hence the phrase save the best for last.
Now, now now is an entitlement thing. Like a kid laying on the floor screaming at Toys R Us. Best to handle them both the same way, walk away and let them scream.
I want my Klingons NOWNOWNOWNOWNOW! And I want a pony. That eats hortas.
Seriously, the Star Trek universe has an insane amount of content. Content takes time. Making the game work takes time. They chose to flesh out the Federation side and the overall game system first. It's not as though they screamed "RARRR! I'm gonna mess with everyone that wants to play Klingons, because offending them is more important than making money! RAAARRR! Hear my obnoxious yellin!" They had to prioritize, probably for a couple of reasons. For one thing, it's easier to hunt bugs in a smaller game. Plus, developers and the assorted code monkeys cost money. They need to be paid. Company owners have to be convinced that a project is worth continuing to pay them. Getting the game launched sooner rather than in, say 2011, means money starts coming in sooner, rather than in 2011. That means they can not only keep it running, but justifying to the Suit Desk Thing People the potential profit in paying developers to create more Klingon content.
Yeah, they wanted to do 2 full factions. Yeah, I'm dissapointed there'll be little PvE content for Klingons, because while I like them and really, really want to play a Gorn, I'm not into PvP. So the Klingon Experience doesn't exactly beckon me at this point. So I'll enjoy the Federation side of things, and hope they flesh out PvE for the Klingons at a later date. It's better than no game at all, and more productive than kicking my little feet and screaming "Cryptic LIEEEEEEEEEEED to me! They prooooomised KlingonnnnnNNNNNNS!!!!!"
I want my Klingons NOWNOWNOWNOWNOW! And I want a pony. That eats hortas. Seriously, the Star Trek universe has an insane amount of content. Content takes time. Making the game work takes time. They chose to flesh out the Federation side and the overall game system first. It's not as though they screamed "RARRR! I'm gonna mess with everyone that wants to play Klingons, because offending them is more important than making money! RAAARRR! Hear my obnoxious yellin!" They had to prioritize, probably for a couple of reasons. For one thing, it's easier to hunt bugs in a smaller game. Plus, developers and the assorted code monkeys cost money. They need to be paid. Company owners have to be convinced that a project is worth continuing to pay them. Getting the game launched sooner rather than in, say 2011, means money starts coming in sooner, rather than in 2011. That means they can not only keep it running, but justifying to the Suit Desk Thing People the potential profit in paying developers to create more Klingon content. Yeah, they wanted to do 2 full factions. Yeah, I'm dissapointed there'll be little PvE content for Klingons, because while I like them and really, really want to play a Gorn, I'm not into PvP. So the Klingon Experience doesn't exactly beckon me at this point. So I'll enjoy the Federation side of things, and hope they flesh out PvE for the Klingons at a later date. It's better than no game at all, and more productive than kicking my little feet and screaming "Cryptic LIEEEEEEEEEEED to me! They prooooomised KlingonnnnnNNNNNNS!!!!!"
Actually, it is not better than waiting, and if the player base doesn't receive the functionality it was expecting at launch the game will fail as so many recent games have done. Removal of anticipated content is a sure path to destruction and this game has almost no chance of breaking out of the niche numbers
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Can't you make your own race in this MMO?.....Great...I imagine a bunch of Klingon look-alikes running around with race names like "Klongons" or Glinkons or some such thing.
I want my Klingons NOWNOWNOWNOWNOW! And I want a pony. That eats hortas. Seriously, the Star Trek universe has an insane amount of content. Content takes time. Making the game work takes time. They chose to flesh out the Federation side and the overall game system first. It's not as though they screamed "RARRR! I'm gonna mess with everyone that wants to play Klingons, because offending them is more important than making money! RAAARRR! Hear my obnoxious yellin!" They had to prioritize, probably for a couple of reasons. For one thing, it's easier to hunt bugs in a smaller game. Plus, developers and the assorted code monkeys cost money. They need to be paid. Company owners have to be convinced that a project is worth continuing to pay them. Getting the game launched sooner rather than in, say 2011, means money starts coming in sooner, rather than in 2011. That means they can not only keep it running, but justifying to the Suit Desk Thing People the potential profit in paying developers to create more Klingon content. Yeah, they wanted to do 2 full factions. Yeah, I'm dissapointed there'll be little PvE content for Klingons, because while I like them and really, really want to play a Gorn, I'm not into PvP. So the Klingon Experience doesn't exactly beckon me at this point. So I'll enjoy the Federation side of things, and hope they flesh out PvE for the Klingons at a later date. It's better than no game at all, and more productive than kicking my little feet and screaming "Cryptic LIEEEEEEEEEEED to me! They prooooomised KlingonnnnnNNNNNNS!!!!!"
Actually, it is not better than waiting, and if the player base doesn't receive the functionality it was expecting at launch the game will fail as so many recent games have done. Removal of anticipated content is a sure path to destruction and this game has almost no chance of breaking out of the niche numbers
Thing is, the "Klingon or Nothing!" Faction IS a niche. Same with the "I'm not playing because Cryptic lied!" That lot has the same credibility as the people who were yowling that they'd cancel their CO subscription because they didn't get invited to the very first day of STO's beta. I think most people who are unthrilled about the initial sparse Klingon content will still be playing. How many people refused to go to the last Star Trek movie because it was about the Federation and not about Klingons? The Federation side content will have to be stronger, but a PvE leaning game with one faction having strong content has a better success than a game with a few bleh factions. I'd rather have them say "We can't do all of it right now and still do it all right" and provide good working conent for one faction now than try to do too much at the outset and provide a bucket of lukewarm Meh.
You might not think it's better than waiting, but the longer production is held up for a title, the more likely it is to get cut. This way the game can generate revenue and justify continueing investement in programming and writing. It's not making any real money for the owners of the company until it starts hitting shelves. (Now, if the Federation side content is skimpy on release, with leveling gaps and grind holes and the like, then you've got a problem.)
Originally posted by Maverz290 Both the same Poison really.
The people who want to play it now, will play it. The people who don't, wont. Thats as simple as it gets. It's true, because, alot of us have already made up our minds. I just dont see how or where people get the motivation from to take an interest in the forums of a game they've already decided not to participate in. It's insane. Okay, you voice an opinion and you move on, but it is always the same people, telling the same crowd of people (whom probably will play the game regardless) their doubts and thoughts.
If you bothered to read this thread, you would have seen a dozen or more people say that this changed their minds. Yeah, there are people for whom this new information doesn't change anything, but there are also plenty for whom it does make a difference.
but also at the same time when it was said in the interview and i quote "klingons will not have pve but mainly pvp atm at launch but cant give anymore info about it, but long story short more will be coming though." Why get all pissy about that then if its gonna come at a later date. Why does our society now these days want everything now now now. Hence the phrase save the best for last.
Now, now now is an entitlement thing. Like a kid laying on the floor screaming at Toys R Us. Best to handle them both the same way, walk away and let them scream.
No, this is about a game company promising one thing and delivering another. Instead of 2 factions (generally considered a minimum in most MMOs, at least where factions matter, like Star Trek), we get 1.5. Pretty lame.
That said, I am sure many people don't feel entitled to a Klingon faction, even though it was promised. Likewise, Cryptic isn't entitled to our money.
Can't you make your own race in this MMO?.....Great...I imagine a bunch of Klingon look-alikes running around with race names like "Klongons" or Glinkons or some such thing.
The Federation and Klingon empire have some unique race "parts" so their races can look distinctive. I rather doubt it is possible to make a Klingon-looking Fed, but I may be wrong (it would seem like if they are going to make anything unique, it would be that though).
Comments
Honestly I think the majority of the problems in this thread simply require you to wait for more info. We know there's more coming. Is it better to fly off the handle before or after you have all the information?
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
I think he has a mindset that federation players will be switching to klingon once they are available. He's forgetting that a lot of people were looking forward to NOT playing the federation because many players have been there and done that many times already. He's right in that the majority of the players will most likely be federation but klingons were probably the most popular villians in the whole lineage of Star Trek. Go to a convention and what race is the most represented? Klingons are cool because they are the exact opposite from the federation. The federation believes in diplomacy while the Klingons prefer conquering. I think having an anti-federation faction would be the right way to go. Not everyone wants to be the goody toeshoes faction. This reminds me of when SOE gave all their attention to jedi and then wondered why no one wanted to play anything else in SWG.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Cryptic's stated position was, and AFAIK still is that PvP is optional...how are they losing griefers? You were NEVER going to be running around cloaked ganking noob Fed players. If they're losing anyone, it's people who wanted to play Klingons without having to PvP 100% of the time.
I'm talking about the people upset that they can only PvP in designated zones rather than attacking any time, anywhere. People still complaining that PvP is in fact optional, as though this is somehow a new development.
The game -might- fail, but I doubt it. I for one am glad with the changes. The idea of having to wait around for someone who wants to play the communications officer? Yeah, pugging the EDO Guardian, need two science officers and an engineer!
Not. No thank you. As for the Klingon play, well, that is a bummer but it's not going to -kill- this game anymore than LOTRO is dead. One thing Cryptic -is- good at is adding stuff in after lunch. Or at least they used to be, can't be certain that holds true now. With Klingons mostly being PVP at the start then those players who want a lot of PvP will be able to go and fight. People will pvp at -every- level they can. Wether it's for a break from other stuff, or just a matter of wanting to get some fun in with limited time.
Tabula Rasa is fail. Matrix Online is fail. I doubt STO is going to fail. If SWG is still going, then STO is going to go. You -cannot- make a single product that appeals to EVERYONE. It's just not going to happen. Ever. Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it's going to suck for everyone.
Anyways... I'm still looking forwards to it.
VP of Marketing: "If we make a Star Trek MMO we will get a 5% return on our investment or 500,000$."
VP of Finance: "We don't have the 10,000,000$ needed to make a Star Trek MMO, we can only secure 5 million dollars from our investors."
CEO: "Lets make half a mmo, we will have half the subsciptions but still make 5% on our initial investment, our investors will be happy and we will still get our bonus checks in May."
They've explicitly stated there is no PvE content of any significance. They've said this several times now even in response to the uproar. This isn't somehow going to change when they release new information. If you wanted to play a Klingon, perhaps because you like Klingon culture or the honorable warrior motif, and you don't want to PvP constantly, then you won't be happy with the game at release. That's just the facts.
Like I've said before, I'm sure they'll have information on PvP, though the fact it is completely untested (not part of beta at all) is not a good sign. It's likely to be very unbalanced. Nonetheless, there is certainly more information for them to share about the Klingons. After all, they haven't said much of anything about them. The new information isn't going to change what we already know though, and the people who wanted PvE Klingon content are fully justified in expressing their unhappiness now. It also won't change the fact that people expecting a fully playable Klingon faction were essentially mislead by Cryptic not mentioning the fact Klingons don't have PvE content even though they must have known about this for a good while now. They promised two full factions, and this is what we get. What other things that they've said will be in the game but haven't talked about aren't going to show up fully implemented?
SOE does NOT run Playstation - The Playstation consoles are handled by SCE: Sony Computer Entertainment. It is a completely separate division staffed by completely different people. And for the record, the great majority of people responsible for the mmo mechanics which have been so copied by others no longer work at SOE - they moved on not long after Everquest 1, after the Velious Expansion rolled out. And ever since then, everything SOE has done has been mediocre success at best and abysmal failure at worst. Be careful of accusing others of ignorance when you're potentially ignorant yourself.
Name an SOE MMO that has shut down since EQ1. abysmal failure would be the shutting down of a game and since SOE have not done that, to my knowledge, they haven't had any abysmal failures. SWG was a success until NGE but even today enough people play and enjoy the game to make enough to keep the game running. SOE aren't as bad as most people make them out to be.
Matrix Online..........
Wow people sure fast to jump into the fire when they hear a little bit of news, why not jsut wait a while longer until the information is expanded upon.
oh wait thats right, can't whine if we we wait for stuff to be clarified
And... because I know someone's going to say it... No, SOE didn't develop MxO, Monolith did, and ran it for a time before it was sold to SOE.
However, at that point, they became its custodians and developers and had been so - at least post launch - for far longer than Monolith was. In that role, they did very little with it and eventually shut it down completely.
So yes, SOE has had a game shut down post EQ1.
Dragging this topic even further off-track (for which I do apologise and promise to get back on track before the end of this post)...
SOE, as of 1 April 2008 (no, it was not an April Fool's joke), became part of the SCEI corporate umbrella.
http://my.curse.com/blogs/sony-online-entertainment-en-news/archive/2008/09/17/N7746Id.aspx
Above is the link to the Curse.com report, but if you browse around the SOE forums, you will find several posts, made by Community Staff on various game boards, referring to the merger there. SCEI has been responsible for every decision made by SOE for more than 20 months now, just so you are aware - and yes, that includes the craptastic business decisions (zombies in Star Wars? Really? So glad I walked away from that game before that update hit...) along with the brilliant ones.
Regarding the lack of Klingons as a playable race in STO...well, I started losing interest in STO as soon as I found out it would be made by the same folks who brought us City of Heroes. I played City of Heroes for a few months and, despite my love of superheroes and customization, could not get past the repetition and complete lack of any kind of meaningful lore in the game. Blatantly ignoring Star Trek lore (as in the popularity of Klingons culminating in the character of Worf in TNG and continuing with Worf, Martok, Grilka, Kahless, and others in DS9), it seems unwise to me to virtually ignore such a prominent Star Trek race. Then again, I don't much care what they do to it because unless this game were being made by a company I respected - which it isn't - the likelihood of my spending even a penny on it is about the same as the likelihood of it snowing in hell this evening.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
Ya why is it people ONLY point out the bad? I don't know much about this game but who knows WoW thrives on PvE. I know I would try it if it was only PvE but that is mainly because I have never been a big PvP person. I like colaborating with others to kill monsters/npcs log off and I'm done for the day. Would be intersting going fomr planet to planet in that game as well should be a huge exploration game.
Truth be told it was always clear to those who follow the forums on the official site, that the klingons system of play would evolve around PvP, with some minor PvE on the side. This is not news to us who have been following it, but alot of fans have a right to be annoyed that no information has been released. Expect some by the end of this month. Until then, people should sit back, and wait for the word. THEN raise hell or whatever you want to do.
If you want to play klingon and do PvE well then im sorry to say its just not avaliable at the moment. I am confident, come launch, if enough people still ask for it, then Cryptic will deliver. We asked for interiors. They said, after launch we'll add them. They dropped the surprise on us that they'd have bridges as a start for us to use as mini social hubs, sort of like player housing. Thats progress. For them to be listening to the fans on the OFFICIAL forums (Yep, get your rear ends there if you want to actually be heard.) is definately a good sign. I mean, really. Do you really think they would come here for advice on how to improve their game? Or would they look at their own forums, and look to people who actually gave enough effort to sign on and show their support/interest.
I can't remember an MMO ever being released without some form of complaints. Especially one tackling a huge IP like Star Trek. Hell some people are evening sitting with 'I told you so' signs about SWTOR. Bioware, fail? Please. They've made that many brilliant quality games, that if they released an MMO of pure golden crap, then they'd still be looked at with respect.
Which leads me onto people not giving Cryptic the respect they deserve. I know for a fact people will respond like, "Respect for destroying the franchise?!" Yes, in your opinions only. You've never actually played the game so for starters the opinion is void until you can say you've tried it. Cryptic did something no one else dared to do. People need to remember that. (And no i dont like Cryptic really, i didnt like CoH/CoV, or CO, but i can respect them for picking up the pieces that Perpetual left behind.) Whoever says Perpetual would've done a better job needs their head examined. How can you trust a company to make a good game, who can't even look after themselves. It's crazy.
The best way forward, is to give it time. Wait! For OFFICIAL word, on the klingons. Truth be told Cryptic are probably not allowed to say anything so are struggling to explain the Klingon side of things to you in interviews, and podcasts. Just, wait for the official announcement. Have a little faith. (I'd just like to see the doubters actually point out what they like in the game. It'd make for good, or short reading.)
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
lol i think all this bit*&ing, moaning, and whining is sooo freaking hilarious. Just wait after release and when the game is thriving all you haters will be playing. I swear some people are just sooo impatient.
Impatiency has nothing to do with it. Game is 1.5 months to release and no Klingon content has been beta tested yet. So it boils down to two things. Either the Klingon faction has so little content that it requires very little beta testing and balancing or the Klingon faction will be full of bugs and imbalanced.
Pick your poison.
My gaming blog
Impatiency has nothing to do with it. Game is 1.5 months to release and no Klingon content has been beta tested yet. So it boils down to two things. Either the Klingon faction has so little content that it requires very little beta testing and balancing or the Klingon faction will be full of bugs and imbalanced.
Pick your poison.
Both the same Poison really.
The people who want to play it now, will play it. The people who don't, wont. Thats as simple as it gets. It's true, because, alot of us have already made up our minds. I just dont see how or where people get the motivation from to take an interest in the forums of a game they've already decided not to participate in. It's insane. Okay, you voice an opinion and you move on, but it is always the same people, telling the same crowd of people (whom probably will play the game regardless) their doubts and thoughts.
At times it's similair to a child saying something over, and over, and over until they get what they want, or in this case, people to agree to their 'crusade' as it was. I say crusade because the will power to constantly fire shots at this game day in, day out, probably requires some kind of amazing endurance.
Im sorry to say though, it's the same people everytime, and nothing has come of it. The same points go back and forward until a next day comes on the calender, and guess what? The same arguement's continue. New things arent brought up, it's the same thing all the time. It's a shame you can't come here to really find out 'balanced' views of this title, because mmorpg.com really do a good job at getting all the information we want to see, but again, people are jumping ahead of the information we're getting and deciding things before any announcement has been made.
If you haven't played it. Haven't seen it announced on Startrekonline.com, then treat it as fiction.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
How cool it would be if Kilngons were cash shop only item?
Haha, every time I think I heard it all about STO and thinking it just cant get any worse this "game" surprises me with even more bs and takes pathetic to a whole new level.
I'm gonna start making bets with friends on what the next bs bomb droped by Cryptic will be.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
I say forget Klingons for now and just have a PVE game until a few months into the game. Then when all the inevitable bugs are worked out of it see if they want to mess with PVP.
If you bothered to read this thread, you would have seen a dozen or more people say that this changed their minds. Yeah, there are people for whom this new information doesn't change anything, but there are also plenty for whom it does make a difference.
If you bothered to read this thread, you would have seen a dozen or more people say that this changed their minds. Yeah, there are people for whom this new information doesn't change anything, but there are also plenty for whom it does make a difference.
but also at the same time when it was said in the interview and i quote "klingons will not have pve but mainly pvp atm at launch but cant give anymore info about it, but long story short more will be coming though." Why get all pissy about that then if its gonna come at a later date. Why does our society now these days want everything now now now. Hence the phrase save the best for last.
If you bothered to read this thread, you would have seen a dozen or more people say that this changed their minds. Yeah, there are people for whom this new information doesn't change anything, but there are also plenty for whom it does make a difference.
but also at the same time when it was said in the interview and i quote "klingons will not have pve but mainly pvp atm at launch but cant give anymore info about it, but long story short more will be coming though." Why get all pissy about that then if its gonna come at a later date. Why does our society now these days want everything now now now. Hence the phrase save the best for last.
They said there'd be two full factions at launch. There are not. The Klingons, by their own admission are not done and they ran out of time. Considering the early release schedule, is there much doubt there are other things they aren't talking about because they are also rushed? That said, I think it is justifiable for people to be upset about the Klingons only and not be interested in paying Cryptic to beta-test a game until it is actually finished. One could take this argument further, if the game was just a box at launch, no disc, no software, no nothing, but they said "just pay us the money and we'll get it all later!" would people have a right to be upset? YES. If the company said the box would have V, W, X, Y, and Z in it, and but Z is only half-done, do people have a right to not want the product? YES. It was not what they thought it would be.
Turning your phrase around, it seems Cryptic wants player money, now, now, now! They will not wait and be patient until their game has on the starting elements they want and instead just want people to pony up the cash for an unfinished product. Heck, they haven't even done any beta testing of PvP mechanics (which is basically all of Klingon gameplay)! Hold the company to at least the same standard you hold the consumers, please.
People ALWAYS flip out on the forums and run around yelling about how this or that changed their minds. This is nothing different. Also, always remember that us here on the forums are the vocal minority. There are nowhere near as many of us posting here as there are waiting and looking forward to the game.
In the end, I'm sure all of us will be more than happy to try the Open Beta, since it is free. That will be the true test, not these forum wars where people say things for effect as much as opinion.
I have certainly been looking forward to the Klingon faction the most, but having not personally played the Klingons, I will wait until I have a chance to get my hands on them before I make my decision on whether I'm happy with their playstyle or not.
It is a sage piece of advice to actually wait and see something with your own eyes before you make a decision on it.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
If you bothered to read this thread, you would have seen a dozen or more people say that this changed their minds. Yeah, there are people for whom this new information doesn't change anything, but there are also plenty for whom it does make a difference.
but also at the same time when it was said in the interview and i quote "klingons will not have pve but mainly pvp atm at launch but cant give anymore info about it, but long story short more will be coming though." Why get all pissy about that then if its gonna come at a later date. Why does our society now these days want everything now now now. Hence the phrase save the best for last.
Now, now now is an entitlement thing. Like a kid laying on the floor screaming at Toys R Us. Best to handle them both the same way, walk away and let them scream.
I want my Klingons NOWNOWNOWNOWNOW! And I want a pony. That eats hortas.
Seriously, the Star Trek universe has an insane amount of content. Content takes time. Making the game work takes time. They chose to flesh out the Federation side and the overall game system first. It's not as though they screamed "RARRR! I'm gonna mess with everyone that wants to play Klingons, because offending them is more important than making money! RAAARRR! Hear my obnoxious yellin!" They had to prioritize, probably for a couple of reasons. For one thing, it's easier to hunt bugs in a smaller game. Plus, developers and the assorted code monkeys cost money. They need to be paid. Company owners have to be convinced that a project is worth continuing to pay them. Getting the game launched sooner rather than in, say 2011, means money starts coming in sooner, rather than in 2011. That means they can not only keep it running, but justifying to the Suit Desk Thing People the potential profit in paying developers to create more Klingon content.
Yeah, they wanted to do 2 full factions. Yeah, I'm dissapointed there'll be little PvE content for Klingons, because while I like them and really, really want to play a Gorn, I'm not into PvP. So the Klingon Experience doesn't exactly beckon me at this point. So I'll enjoy the Federation side of things, and hope they flesh out PvE for the Klingons at a later date. It's better than no game at all, and more productive than kicking my little feet and screaming "Cryptic LIEEEEEEEEEEED to me! They prooooomised KlingonnnnnNNNNNNS!!!!!"
Actually, it is not better than waiting, and if the player base doesn't receive the functionality it was expecting at launch the game will fail as so many recent games have done. Removal of anticipated content is a sure path to destruction and this game has almost no chance of breaking out of the niche numbers
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Can't you make your own race in this MMO?.....Great...I imagine a bunch of Klingon look-alikes running around with race names like "Klongons" or Glinkons or some such thing.
Actually, it is not better than waiting, and if the player base doesn't receive the functionality it was expecting at launch the game will fail as so many recent games have done. Removal of anticipated content is a sure path to destruction and this game has almost no chance of breaking out of the niche numbers
Thing is, the "Klingon or Nothing!" Faction IS a niche. Same with the "I'm not playing because Cryptic lied!" That lot has the same credibility as the people who were yowling that they'd cancel their CO subscription because they didn't get invited to the very first day of STO's beta. I think most people who are unthrilled about the initial sparse Klingon content will still be playing. How many people refused to go to the last Star Trek movie because it was about the Federation and not about Klingons? The Federation side content will have to be stronger, but a PvE leaning game with one faction having strong content has a better success than a game with a few bleh factions. I'd rather have them say "We can't do all of it right now and still do it all right" and provide good working conent for one faction now than try to do too much at the outset and provide a bucket of lukewarm Meh.
You might not think it's better than waiting, but the longer production is held up for a title, the more likely it is to get cut. This way the game can generate revenue and justify continueing investement in programming and writing. It's not making any real money for the owners of the company until it starts hitting shelves. (Now, if the Federation side content is skimpy on release, with leveling gaps and grind holes and the like, then you've got a problem.)
If you bothered to read this thread, you would have seen a dozen or more people say that this changed their minds. Yeah, there are people for whom this new information doesn't change anything, but there are also plenty for whom it does make a difference.
but also at the same time when it was said in the interview and i quote "klingons will not have pve but mainly pvp atm at launch but cant give anymore info about it, but long story short more will be coming though." Why get all pissy about that then if its gonna come at a later date. Why does our society now these days want everything now now now. Hence the phrase save the best for last.
Now, now now is an entitlement thing. Like a kid laying on the floor screaming at Toys R Us. Best to handle them both the same way, walk away and let them scream.
No, this is about a game company promising one thing and delivering another. Instead of 2 factions (generally considered a minimum in most MMOs, at least where factions matter, like Star Trek), we get 1.5. Pretty lame.
That said, I am sure many people don't feel entitled to a Klingon faction, even though it was promised. Likewise, Cryptic isn't entitled to our money.
The Federation and Klingon empire have some unique race "parts" so their races can look distinctive. I rather doubt it is possible to make a Klingon-looking Fed, but I may be wrong (it would seem like if they are going to make anything unique, it would be that though).