The difference is minimal really, they're both very stat dependant.
The one has a slow aim-style combat and the other has microturn combat with a few skills off global cooldown.
Depends what style you like although, like it or not, high level arena play in WoW takes more skill.
If someone like athenewins can be the best player in wow and he is the most noob player in Call of duty, i think tahts mean DF take more skill since you have to aim.
Athene said it himself.(Im not good in fps games because you have to aim and all)Wow. Noob word. And he even tried them. You had to see his call of duty review seriously.
If darkfall had arena, you would see how more skill it would take then wow. Wow take less skill because you only have to get schooled. You have to remember the same patern vs each different class. After a while, its easy to pull the same patern if you are not a retard. I played wow so i know what im talking bout. Also, its the same BG, same arena. You just have to remember how those map look and you are good. DF, you have to get instant reflex because you never know what might happen. The world is so huge that you cant remember if you had been there before and you dont always do the same patern of skills and if you do, you have the possibility to miss in DF so its harder.
Because the tools you get in WoW are far more than a simple rock/paper/scrissors game.
Most of the arena play is done through microturns and adapting on what strategy did your opponent take. Now this doesn't sound that hard on paper, it should be as simple as (If A does 1 then you do A1, if A does 2 then you do A2, etc), right?
But you see, it isn't. There are so many buttons and so many strategies you can have. For example, a Discipline Priest is the offensive PvP healer of WoW. He'll have to balance damage, healing and CC. Not only that he must think of a good strategy, but he must also manage his resources(aka health, mana and even cooldowns).
Also, to apply these strategies, you'll need twitch. Even if there's a global cooldown, there are a lot of game-winning buttons off the global cooldown. You'll need to think when to use or not to use them and it's actually very hard when you got 40 abilities binded on your mouse and keyboard. You'll need a lot of eye-hand coordonation to pull a silence at a right time and win the game. 0.1 delay could mean a loss.
And what I said above is just from an individual point of view. When it involves 3v3 and 5v5, you'll have to use a voice chat to coordonate with your partners. You'll need very fast switches to trick the enemy team and the ability to be able to sync your own CC, while still dodging enemy CC and general damage. This isn't so easy, because a single player must keep in his mind what cooldowns the enemy used, among other things.
Good teams will pull some very interesting things(like taunting a hunter's pet to allow your healer to drink and gain precious mana) while bad teams will just spam unsynced CC and powerful damage abilities, hoping to win.
If WoW was all about gear and 2button spamming, then we wouldn't see naked warlock+mage teams getting to 2000 like it happened in BC.
Granted, you're right when you say that your average PvP in WoW(battlegrounds) is piss easy but when you see how well high-rated players will use their tools to fight, you'll be amazed.
And this is a fact when i say that Gladiators in WoW are generally very good gamers, not just in MMO gaming, but also in RTS, FPS and other genres.
I'll keep my point that the difference is minimal between the two. If you want to taste WoW's best PvP, then be prepared to be killed by very skilled players.
One more thing: if you say that rock/paper/scrissor games don't take skill, you say that games such as SC don't take skill.
So look at that again, because saying that will make you lose any credibility you have, especially when you say it in front of serious gamers. After all,world's best SC players can make 450+/actions per minute.
And Consensus, from that PoV, Quake takes far more twitch skill than Darkfall. And skill in gaming isn't something set in stones, it differs, but I'm sure most of us agree that certain gamers are far more skilled than average ones.
But why does WoW PvP take more skill than DFO PvP? I see no evidence, you alt tab/target your enemy and mash the buttons bound to your hotbar, right? That's what everyone else does as there's no collision detection no need to chase, you just mash your pre defined attack plan like the other guy playing a virtual game of rock/paper/scissors until one guy wins. Please tell me why this is wrong because this is what 100% of the WoW players I've spoken to tell me, why do you believe this isn't so?
While there is no collision detection in WoW there is a slight dependancy on movement to keep people in your line of sight. A major noting difference between WoW and DF's combat stems from the standing casts/abilities vs mobile abilities. Darkfall has no standing cast spells or abilities because movement is a very big part in the combat whereas WoW is more about juggling abilities/spells.
Man... Is it me or am I repeating myself? It's like dejavu all over again!
When you say juggling abilites/spells to me it means you're playing rock/paper/scissors, which is what most other MMORPGs combat systems boil down to. You select your abilities then go into a fight and fire them off with the other guy doing the same until there's an outcome, is that a fair description?
Rock/Paper/Scissors is a simple game with only three choices. WoW not only has more options but also uses timing with the cooldowns and minor movement utilizing the line of sight mechanic. So if you mean that WoW is like a super advanced rock/paper/scissors of the future then you are right. Though I will admit that it depends on your class and template you choose to play since some of them are much more simple than others.
For the final, wow dont take skill, it take strategy. Get in a clan, use ventrilo or team speak and make your plans. You already know wich class you guys will face in the next arena. Same for BG's but the only thing you know is the structure of the map, the objectif and your teamates if you in a clan. It might even come down to rock paper scissors for the outcome of the fight.
How do i describe wow pvp, like an E-sport game.
I played football for 9 years. How do we win our match? Easy. We play in the same terrain every match. We know what our teamates are capable of doing. We make plans before the match start and everytime we have a team focus time. if we didnt need to be physically good to play football or any other sport, anyone that is not retarded or fear nothing would had been able to be a pro too. Our plan match is base on the same terrain. Well, its the same thing for wow, but instead, you are just a computer gamer so from where you are, it look more like a chess game.
WOW take strategy. Not skill. Starcraft takes more skill because not only you have to be good at strategy game, but you also have to be a pro microer. In wow, you have your set of skill on your hot bar and all you do if you are a melee for exemple, using your skill one by one, the outcome might make you pull out a pummel to cancel a caster spell, but other then that, you turn around your enemy and using skill at the same time just to try to confuse him or slow him down since you cant attack someone behind you.
For me the largest difference between standard MMO and Darkfall is a sense of realism that comes from First Person Perspective. As well as other aspects such as geography actually making a difference and splash affects.
The conversation here reminds me of the arcade days where there was a high level of "skill" required to be good a Donky Kong but when Doom came out the skills required felt more "real"
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
This is a 1 vs 6. The 6 guys are noobs from a guild name newborn.
Now, you can see wich game take more skill. Even wow noobs can protect themself vs the end game players and the endgame players have to stay on their toes too because they still have the possibility to die vs these noobs.
Now, you can see wich game take more skill. Even wow noobs can protect themself vs the end game players and the endgame players have to stay on their toes too because they still have the possibility to die vs these noobs.
Now, you can see wich game take more skill. Even wow noobs can protect themself vs the end game players and the endgame players have to stay on their toes too because they still have the possibility to die vs these noobs.
Forgot what WoW looks like, like its ment for kids.
Forgot what WoW looks like, like its ment for kids.
Yeah I have a hard time seeing video or screenshots of WoW without laughing. (sorry WoW fans just sayin)
hehe, yeah, I have the same problem. Except when I watch the Darkfall PvP vids it's like I'm playin' Daggerfall again circa 1996. just sayin :-)
This whole thread is kinda pointless. You can't really compare since the "skills" require are completely different. I watched the vids, I'd probably agree Darkfall requires more "skill." To say WoW PvP requires no "skill" though would force me to ask what you think "skill" actually means. twitch, skills, tactics, etc, just feels like we're arguing semantics more than anything. With a large dose of hater/fanboism tossed in for funz.
hehe, yeah, I have the same problem. Except when I watch the Darkfall PvP vids it's like I'm playin' Daggerfall again circa 1996. just sayin :-)
This whole thread is kinda pointless. You can't really compare since the "skills" require are completely different. I watched the vids, I'd probably agree Darkfall requires more "skill." To say WoW PvP requires no "skill" though would force me to ask what you think "skill" actually means. twitch, skills, tactics, etc, just feels like we're arguing semantics more than anything. With a large dose of hater/fanboism tossed in for funz.
1. I have never seen a you tube video that is nearly as good graphically as my in game experience. I think this might be becuase I have all settings on high.
2. I edited my post to make clear I am really talking about art direction more than technical graphics. WoW looks like a cartoon to me and not becuase of its polygon count.
3. Donky Kong requires a lot of skill as well. so, your right, this conversation around skill is a bit retarded. Its more about virtual reality then skill
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
This is a pointless debate. Both games require skill... they just require different sorts. Anyone who says WoW does not require skill simply hasn't played the game enough. Sure it may seem like the game requires no skill when you are a noob and are not facing off against max level, well-geared players with skill. I have played both WoW and Darkfall extensively and both games require BOTH twitch reflexes and strategy to win.
You can't win in WoW simply by pressing buttons in succession. You have to be facing your opponents who are constantly strafing around you to stay out of targeting range. You have to be able to decide the proper action in a split second and execute it correctly in order to come out on top. You also have to keep moving to stay away from your opponents. When facing mages, you want to get close and physical because they tend to be squishy. When facing hunters, you have to keep close to stay out of the range of their most dangerous abilities. All of these things require moving and reacting very quickly. It is not simply a game of rock paper scissors... it is much more than that. If you think otherwise, you don't know what you're talking about. Simple as that. Try being successful in WoW's extremely competitive arena system and then you can talk.
As far as Darkfall is concerned, there is definitely more twitch involved, but other than that, its the same thing. You need to decide what to do with only a split second to react. Do you pull out your bow and try to kite your enemy? Do you cast a spell? Do you pull out your sword or use a special? Do you run away like a little girl? Honestly, there are far fewer choices in Darkfall than there are in WOW since there are far fewer abilities, but the FPS twitch-style combat makes up for it.
Both games require ample amounts of strategy and skill to be successful.
I predict that the OP rage quits on day 8, after getting his loot jacked for the 17th time.
I would hope so. I have little emotions when it comes to video games, so working up a rage will be quite the experience. On the otherhand I knew beforehand that this game required a different set of skills than WoW, and I'm just trying to see which one is harder.
Based on the 10 minutes I've gotten in so far (my plane leaves soon, so I've been packing) it is going to take a while to get used to the clunky U.I. My first fights with goblins went fairly easily, although I haven't been able to loot much as they respawn as fast as I kill them.
[Edit] No PVP has happened yet. And thats really what I care most about, because honestly I don't see PVE in either of these games being 'hard'. I think the largest reason WoW doesn't require that much 'skill' is because most of what you do is based on intense studying of the proper response per class combination. I'll need to reflect a little more on this, and talk to my gladiator friend.
I would hope so. I have little emotions when it comes to video games, so working up a rage will be quite the experience. On the otherhand I knew beforehand that this game required a different set of skills than WoW, and I'm just trying to see which one is harder. Based on the 10 minutes I've gotten in so far (my plane leaves soon, so I've been packing) it is going to take a while to get used to the clunky U.I. My first fights with goblins went fairly easily, although I haven't been able to loot much as they respawn as fast as I kill them. No PVP has happened yet.
it appears to me you like to play a game based on the "skill" level required to play it rather than the actual game experience.
I would venture to say that there are some free webbased games that can challenge your keyboard skill in ways better than any MMO out there to be completely honest if that is all you are really intrested in.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
If someone like athenewins can be the best player in wow and he is the most noob player in Call of duty, i think tahts mean DF take more skill since you have to aim.
Athene said it himself.(Im not good in fps games because you have to aim and all)Wow. Noob word. And he even tried them. You had to see his call of duty review seriously.
If darkfall had arena, you would see how more skill it would take then wow. Wow take less skill because you only have to get schooled. You have to remember the same patern vs each different class. After a while, its easy to pull the same patern if you are not a retard. I played wow so i know what im talking bout. Also, its the same BG, same arena. You just have to remember how those map look and you are good. DF, you have to get instant reflex because you never know what might happen. The world is so huge that you cant remember if you had been there before and you dont always do the same patern of skills and if you do, you have the possibility to miss in DF so its harder.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Because the tools you get in WoW are far more than a simple rock/paper/scrissors game.
Most of the arena play is done through microturns and adapting on what strategy did your opponent take. Now this doesn't sound that hard on paper, it should be as simple as (If A does 1 then you do A1, if A does 2 then you do A2, etc), right?
But you see, it isn't. There are so many buttons and so many strategies you can have. For example, a Discipline Priest is the offensive PvP healer of WoW. He'll have to balance damage, healing and CC. Not only that he must think of a good strategy, but he must also manage his resources(aka health, mana and even cooldowns).
Also, to apply these strategies, you'll need twitch. Even if there's a global cooldown, there are a lot of game-winning buttons off the global cooldown. You'll need to think when to use or not to use them and it's actually very hard when you got 40 abilities binded on your mouse and keyboard. You'll need a lot of eye-hand coordonation to pull a silence at a right time and win the game. 0.1 delay could mean a loss.
And what I said above is just from an individual point of view. When it involves 3v3 and 5v5, you'll have to use a voice chat to coordonate with your partners. You'll need very fast switches to trick the enemy team and the ability to be able to sync your own CC, while still dodging enemy CC and general damage. This isn't so easy, because a single player must keep in his mind what cooldowns the enemy used, among other things.
Good teams will pull some very interesting things(like taunting a hunter's pet to allow your healer to drink and gain precious mana) while bad teams will just spam unsynced CC and powerful damage abilities, hoping to win.
If WoW was all about gear and 2button spamming, then we wouldn't see naked warlock+mage teams getting to 2000 like it happened in BC.
Granted, you're right when you say that your average PvP in WoW(battlegrounds) is piss easy but when you see how well high-rated players will use their tools to fight, you'll be amazed.
And this is a fact when i say that Gladiators in WoW are generally very good gamers, not just in MMO gaming, but also in RTS, FPS and other genres.
I'll keep my point that the difference is minimal between the two. If you want to taste WoW's best PvP, then be prepared to be killed by very skilled players.
DARKFALL = BOXING (Fast paced, on the fly decisions and combat)
WORLD OF WARCRAFT = CHESS (Strategic combat often requiring quick, but methodical decisions)
They're both great games. Some people will suck at both and call them hard, others will excel at both.
-Maliv
(Just for reference I played WoW from Beta until 3.2. I currently play Darkfall.)
"Going Against The Grain Should Be A Way Of Life"
Way to set the bar high.
/s
this.
if you think wow takes skill then you probably don't even know what twitch twitch games are.
like above poster I might agree games like wow require more stratergy. but thats not skill.
My blog:
Hi.
I dont post on MMORPG because of all the CRAP that comes off these boards, but if you like fast paced FPS games with a twist of UO/AC mmorpg style.
Play darkfall.
Ciao
~CB
-the one and only-
DarkFall Videos
http://www.youtube.com/cattboy
One more thing: if you say that rock/paper/scrissor games don't take skill, you say that games such as SC don't take skill.
So look at that again, because saying that will make you lose any credibility you have, especially when you say it in front of serious gamers. After all,world's best SC players can make 450+/actions per minute.
And Consensus, from that PoV, Quake takes far more twitch skill than Darkfall. And skill in gaming isn't something set in stones, it differs, but I'm sure most of us agree that certain gamers are far more skilled than average ones.
While there is no collision detection in WoW there is a slight dependancy on movement to keep people in your line of sight. A major noting difference between WoW and DF's combat stems from the standing casts/abilities vs mobile abilities. Darkfall has no standing cast spells or abilities because movement is a very big part in the combat whereas WoW is more about juggling abilities/spells.
Man... Is it me or am I repeating myself? It's like dejavu all over again!
When you say juggling abilites/spells to me it means you're playing rock/paper/scissors, which is what most other MMORPGs combat systems boil down to. You select your abilities then go into a fight and fire them off with the other guy doing the same until there's an outcome, is that a fair description?
Rock/Paper/Scissors is a simple game with only three choices. WoW not only has more options but also uses timing with the cooldowns and minor movement utilizing the line of sight mechanic. So if you mean that WoW is like a super advanced rock/paper/scissors of the future then you are right. Though I will admit that it depends on your class and template you choose to play since some of them are much more simple than others.
LOL at all you WoW fanboys explaining how WoW works. Do you think we have never played a game like WoW.
WoW takes next to no player skill its as simple as that.
Playing Darkfall EU1 Server
For the final, wow dont take skill, it take strategy. Get in a clan, use ventrilo or team speak and make your plans. You already know wich class you guys will face in the next arena. Same for BG's but the only thing you know is the structure of the map, the objectif and your teamates if you in a clan. It might even come down to rock paper scissors for the outcome of the fight.
How do i describe wow pvp, like an E-sport game.
I played football for 9 years. How do we win our match? Easy. We play in the same terrain every match. We know what our teamates are capable of doing. We make plans before the match start and everytime we have a team focus time. if we didnt need to be physically good to play football or any other sport, anyone that is not retarded or fear nothing would had been able to be a pro too. Our plan match is base on the same terrain. Well, its the same thing for wow, but instead, you are just a computer gamer so from where you are, it look more like a chess game.
WOW take strategy. Not skill. Starcraft takes more skill because not only you have to be good at strategy game, but you also have to be a pro microer. In wow, you have your set of skill on your hot bar and all you do if you are a melee for exemple, using your skill one by one, the outcome might make you pull out a pummel to cancel a caster spell, but other then that, you turn around your enemy and using skill at the same time just to try to confuse him or slow him down since you cant attack someone behind you.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
For me the largest difference between standard MMO and Darkfall is a sense of realism that comes from First Person Perspective. As well as other aspects such as geography actually making a difference and splash affects.
The conversation here reminds me of the arcade days where there was a high level of "skill" required to be good a Donky Kong but when Doom came out the skills required felt more "real"
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
WOW vs darkfall pvp video.
WOW:
Darkfall:
You cant possibly say that wow take more skills.
Now, the end game players vs noob part.
Wow:
They dont stand a second chance.
Darkfall http://www.wegame.com/watch/ihope-ugotlewt-rematch-against-new/
This is a 1 vs 6. The 6 guys are noobs from a guild name newborn.
Now, you can see wich game take more skill. Even wow noobs can protect themself vs the end game players and the endgame players have to stay on their toes too because they still have the possibility to die vs these noobs.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Cliki
Playing Darkfall EU1 Server
without hitboxes Darkfall doesnt need so much skill
not to mention wide arcs.
with scripts wow is pretty much 2 button game
tough one.
maybe darkfall wins this time
Generation P
www.youtube.com/watch
Another vid showing how much better Darkfall is on PVP. You just cant compare lol.
Playing Darkfall EU1 Server
Forgot what WoW looks like, like its ment for kids.
Playing Darkfall EU1 Server
Yeah I have a hard time seeing video or screenshots of WoW without laughing. (sorry WoW fans just sayin)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Yeah I have a hard time seeing video or screenshots of WoW without laughing. (sorry WoW fans just sayin)
Try text based MMOs or rogue-likes or paper & pens,its all about your imagination graphix card.
Generation P
This is only true if the images are not actually in front of you during the duration of of your playing time.
Regardless of how people think graphics dont matter when your entire playing time is spent in front of the graphics they DO matter.
I can not play WoW without using conscious energy trying to not vomit.
I want to clarify, when I say graphics I mean art direction, not technical
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Yeah I have a hard time seeing video or screenshots of WoW without laughing. (sorry WoW fans just sayin)
hehe, yeah, I have the same problem. Except when I watch the Darkfall PvP vids it's like I'm playin' Daggerfall again circa 1996. just sayin :-)
This whole thread is kinda pointless. You can't really compare since the "skills" require are completely different. I watched the vids, I'd probably agree Darkfall requires more "skill." To say WoW PvP requires no "skill" though would force me to ask what you think "skill" actually means. twitch, skills, tactics, etc, just feels like we're arguing semantics more than anything. With a large dose of hater/fanboism tossed in for funz.
Now I actually find it funny, bashing WoW's graphics and saying Darkfall graphics are better.
1. I have never seen a you tube video that is nearly as good graphically as my in game experience. I think this might be becuase I have all settings on high.
2. I edited my post to make clear I am really talking about art direction more than technical graphics. WoW looks like a cartoon to me and not becuase of its polygon count.
3. Donky Kong requires a lot of skill as well. so, your right, this conversation around skill is a bit retarded. Its more about virtual reality then skill
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I predict that the OP rage quits on day 8, after getting his loot jacked for the 17th time.
This is a pointless debate. Both games require skill... they just require different sorts. Anyone who says WoW does not require skill simply hasn't played the game enough. Sure it may seem like the game requires no skill when you are a noob and are not facing off against max level, well-geared players with skill. I have played both WoW and Darkfall extensively and both games require BOTH twitch reflexes and strategy to win.
You can't win in WoW simply by pressing buttons in succession. You have to be facing your opponents who are constantly strafing around you to stay out of targeting range. You have to be able to decide the proper action in a split second and execute it correctly in order to come out on top. You also have to keep moving to stay away from your opponents. When facing mages, you want to get close and physical because they tend to be squishy. When facing hunters, you have to keep close to stay out of the range of their most dangerous abilities. All of these things require moving and reacting very quickly. It is not simply a game of rock paper scissors... it is much more than that. If you think otherwise, you don't know what you're talking about. Simple as that. Try being successful in WoW's extremely competitive arena system and then you can talk.
As far as Darkfall is concerned, there is definitely more twitch involved, but other than that, its the same thing. You need to decide what to do with only a split second to react. Do you pull out your bow and try to kite your enemy? Do you cast a spell? Do you pull out your sword or use a special? Do you run away like a little girl? Honestly, there are far fewer choices in Darkfall than there are in WOW since there are far fewer abilities, but the FPS twitch-style combat makes up for it.
Both games require ample amounts of strategy and skill to be successful.
I would hope so. I have little emotions when it comes to video games, so working up a rage will be quite the experience. On the otherhand I knew beforehand that this game required a different set of skills than WoW, and I'm just trying to see which one is harder.
Based on the 10 minutes I've gotten in so far (my plane leaves soon, so I've been packing) it is going to take a while to get used to the clunky U.I. My first fights with goblins went fairly easily, although I haven't been able to loot much as they respawn as fast as I kill them.
[Edit] No PVP has happened yet. And thats really what I care most about, because honestly I don't see PVE in either of these games being 'hard'. I think the largest reason WoW doesn't require that much 'skill' is because most of what you do is based on intense studying of the proper response per class combination. I'll need to reflect a little more on this, and talk to my gladiator friend.
it appears to me you like to play a game based on the "skill" level required to play it rather than the actual game experience.
I would venture to say that there are some free webbased games that can challenge your keyboard skill in ways better than any MMO out there to be completely honest if that is all you are really intrested in.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me