I feel everyone on this one...One thing i'll say is if it was just solo play then it woldnt be an MMORPG, like really! I enjoy both solo play and group play alike...for some reason I like group play when your own a huge quest that deals with plenty of mini-bosses and an overwhelming strong boss...but then solo play is good when you want to chill out and have time to yourself as you enjoy every other aspects of the game!!! ^^ That concludes my opinion...
(PS: I'm seriously tired of the point and click >:[ ...where's an MMO that brings the action like Devil May Cry!!! That would bring me to joy, happiness, and to tears!!! T.T...I might as well do that myself, you'll see my games one day...one day)
Someone call the whaaaambulance! Seems like some group-fanatic died from sorrow...
From joke to revolver though:
Funnily enough, theres no evidence that the MMO genre is 'dead' or 'degenerating'. In fact, everything is pointing to the opposite. The MMO genre is healthier than ever, and it also provides more fun than ever before. If this have cost some group-fanatic's life, well so be it. If it will cost some more, well, I could care less. The less group-fanatics & 'old-school' MMO'ers around, the better MMO community there is.
The community that WoW and games of it's type bring a better community that those of an older game such as Everquest? Even someone that goes so far out of his way to degrade these types of players such as you do, has to realize this is complete BS.
The community now is nothing like it used to be unless you really go looking for it and even then you may not find what you could find in EQ by tossing a stone....errr plagued rat tail. The "leet speek" (did I do that right?) group of players with names like Pwnurface, Noobsauce, or Knutcak are all over the place in almost all the newer games I have played. In my opinion, that's not a good community. These kids could be some nice people but I'll never know because they already expressed thier ignrorance and immaturity by choosing a crazy name for EVERYONE to know they as.
Before you jump on your soapbox once again please know that I am for a group oriented game but I also believe that there should be some soloability. I think trips to the group locations are good solo activities, checking the mailbox, playing the broker, and taking care of the pest problems around these game towns are good solo activities. I'm just messing I do think there should be some type of solo action for people while they wait to group but I prefer the group game.
Anyways back on track, you have to admit there has been a decline in the mmo community since they have began to cater to the casual players more. You can do the forum troll thing and toss the blame at the "group-fanatics & old school" mmo'ers such as myself but you'll never see me with such a name as mentioned above, I'll never use leet speak, I've never ninja loot, and more often than not if I can toss a random buff on ya running by then I will.
Someone call the whaaaambulance! Seems like some group-fanatic died from sorrow...
From joke to revolver though:
Funnily enough, theres no evidence that the MMO genre is 'dead' or 'degenerating'. In fact, everything is pointing to the opposite. The MMO genre is healthier than ever, and it also provides more fun than ever before. If this have cost some group-fanatic's life, well so be it. If it will cost some more, well, I could care less. The less group-fanatics & 'old-school' MMO'ers around, the better MMO community there is.
The community that WoW and games of it's type bring a better community that those of an older game such as Everquest? Even someone that goes so far out of his way to degrade these types of players such as you do, has to realize this is complete BS.
The community now is nothing like it used to be unless you really go looking for it and even then you may not find what you could find in EQ by tossing a stone....errr plagued rat tail. The "leet speek" (did I do that right?) group of players with names like Pwnurface, Noobsauce, or Knutcak are all over the place in almost all the newer games I have played. In my opinion, that's not a good community. These kids could be some nice people but I'll never know because they already expressed thier ignrorance and immaturity by choosing a crazy name for EVERYONE to know they as.
Before you jump on your soapbox once again please know that I am for a group oriented game but I also believe that there should be some soloability. I think trips to the group locations are good solo activities, checking the mailbox, playing the broker, and taking care of the pest problems around these game towns are good solo activities. I'm just messing I do think there should be some type of solo action for people while they wait to group but I prefer the group game.
Anyways back on track, you have to admit there has been a decline in the mmo community since they have began to cater to the casual players more. You can do the forum troll thing and toss the blame at the "group-fanatics & old school" mmo'ers such as myself but you'll never see me with such a name as mentioned above, I'll never use leet speak, I've never ninja loot, and more often than not if I can toss a random buff on ya running by then I will.
You're a crazy senile disillusioned.. Okay I won't go there. LoL Since 2000 I've played MMORPGs. Ultima for a lil' while, EQ for a long while, and been in every other odd twist here and there since then. 1337 names were there then! The community is exaclty the same. It'll always have these guys. Remember "WTS HQ foreskin" or "Odoyle Rules!" ? No... How easy it is to forget. They got replaced with Chuck Norris jokes, but the core community for MMORPGs remains the same.
Now I'm all for group content in MMOs over them having more than 10% solo play. Not because I've been playing for a long time; but because mmorpgs are not good solo-playing games. Even the more 'arcade' style games (I think that's a retarded term for action game elements, but who am I to judge what is the opiate of the masses) like AoC or Champions would be horrible single player experiences.
SWTOR is seeming to want to change this.
I just found out Guild Wars 2 wants to change the whole grouping dynamic.
Regardless, MMORPGs are an extremely poor place for people who want to be 'i am the single most powerful thing in this universe' or be anti-social. Like the poor gamer who has the 'i cant say goodby so i alt-f4 at the end of a dungeon'. There are just too many great single player games out there to be enjoyed for hours and hours for developers of mmorpgs to include anything more than some cute little single player distractions to the genre. Add a few quest lines specific for the player's class to be enjoyed, hone up their role a little. Put some decent solo obtainable items out there. A little story here and there. Something more than 'take this X to Y in Z amount of time' I agree, but let the devs focus on group content because that's what the games are designed for. The most complex MMO out now is so simple, dumbing it down further would be ridiculous.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Yes WoW did do a very good combination. If you play too much of one, that's not very good at all. But when you give them the perfect amount of play that the player can choose between how much the player wants of each and and equal amoutn of both, well that makes things alot better, And by the way I don't think understood a THING I just said.
I have to agree, that's something WoW got spot-on, and with the new Dungeon Finder, it's even easier to quickly go from solo to team and back again. Now if only WoW would make a rich and immersive sci-fi MMORPG....
Hint.
Hint.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Im mostly just posting here and every other forum to try and regain a star i lost due to some troll reporting ME as a troll when i responded to him very politely.
anyway .....as far as grouping vs solo, I do pretty well in most games solo but no matter what game I play I find its very hard for me to find groups even though i really would like to play with other people, i mean thats why i play online games instead of my console. It's especially a pain when trying to complete a quest/mission that is made to actually need a group to finish. I end up alot of times waiting till im much higher level than the quest just to get it done. Or if i do find a group there is always a "ninja" that ruins the experiance grabbing an item that only my class can use and thats BOP even though im the only one of that class in the group.
so to conclude i really cant say which is better they both have their merits and all games should have a good balance of both which was mentioned by soemone earlier in the posts. I guess its most important to just have fun.....and beware of ninjas :P
Yes WoW did do a very good combination. If you play too much of one, that's not very good at all. But when you give them the perfect amount of play that the player can choose between how much the player wants of each and and equal amoutn of both, well that makes things alot better, And by the way I don't think understood a THING I just said.
I have to agree, that's something WoW got spot-on, and with the new Dungeon Finder, it's even easier to quickly go from solo to team and back again. Now if only WoW would make a rich and immersive sci-fi MMORPG....
Hint.
Hint.
Oh God yes that would be awesome my inner Sci-Fi gamer geek has been so alone and depressed since Tabula Rasa shut down. I really would love something new along those same lines, wasnt there talk of a Starcraft based mmorpg at one time?
i like the way you think, most free to play games dont really look at what the players really want, they just find ways to make more $$. for example, they make it so you need to pay $$ to get good in the game, or they make it so you sux without $$. i just really think free to play games should have btter costumer service
Solo and group play both have merits. With solo play you can just relax and unwind after a stressful day at work. With group play you can be a part of a social group, take a role and contribute to your parties success or failure.
Raids on the other hand I would categorize as 'crowd' play. I tend to avoid crowds, ingame and in life. I just find it extremely boring and unrewarding. I would leave it in for people who like that kind of thing, but make alternative paths to attain the same gear. Usually this will make hardcore players cry and pull out their hair. This alone justifies keeping raiding in.
A soloer, no matter how much time they put in to a game, should never get the same rewards as someone who joins a group to tackle a large obstacle. Groups trying to achieve goals together should always be the main mechanic in a MMORPG.
Why does EVERY MMO absolutely HAVE to be that way? I'll accept that that is your preference, but do you intend to play ALL the MMOs there are? Is it utterly unthinkable to have some MMOs that don't function exactly as you think they should?
Why not have some MMOs that allow the soloer to get the same rewards, but perhaps in a longer and different method. Do you think every MMO would suffer if a few allowed that? I'm not seeking to eliminate the benefits of grouping in all MMOs, I'm suggesting that some MMOs could still succeed if they worked differently from the tired old mechanic of 'solo to the end, then group or give up'.
If you're going to respond and tell me why we can't have any MMOs like that, please give me a reason other than "it's an MMO", because that is lame and far from adequate.
If you're going to respond and tell me why we can't have any MMOs like that, please give me a reason other than "it's an MMO", because that is lame and far from adequate.
It is not lame - it is right on the money.
You want to play in a manner that is contrary to the basic philosophy of MMOs - playing with other people.
Groupers should have their own games, since soloers have theirs - single player games.
That's fair. Instead - soloers infiltrate MMOs and demand to be accomodated.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If you're going to respond and tell me why we can't have any MMOs like that, please give me a reason other than "it's an MMO", because that is lame and far from adequate.
It is not lame - it is right on the money.
You want to play in a manner that is contrary to the basic philosophy of MMOs - playing with other people.
Groupers should have their own games, since soloers have theirs - single player games.
That's fair. Instead - soloers infiltrate MMOs and demand to be accomodated.
So, MMOs can be one way and one way only and no one should even dare to think outside of this box? And it must remain this way til forever and forever?
Again, why? Why can't some MMO's have a soloable endgame? Simply because the game falls into the category of MMO and no other reason?
If you're going to respond and tell me why we can't have any MMOs like that, please give me a reason other than "it's an MMO", because that is lame and far from adequate.
It is not lame - it is right on the money.
You want to play in a manner that is contrary to the basic philosophy of MMOs - playing with other people.
Groupers should have their own games, since soloers have theirs - single player games.
That's fair. Instead - soloers infiltrate MMOs and demand to be accomodated.
Where is it written that MMO's should be group orientated? Please don't use the abbreviation as an example.
The second M stands for multiplayer, but that doesn't imply anything other than multiple players in the same game at the same time. It doesn't infer anything else. The first MMO's were only group centric because the devs didn't have the resources to provide much in the way of individual gameplay. Hence why you had to grind a lot in games like Anarchy Online. Hanging onto such tradition (even though it has no relevance to the actual definition of the term MMO) just as futile and flawed as others who completely blame Blizzard for introducing the concept solo gameplay in an MMO. Solo play doesn't necessarily mean that the individual is anti-social either.
Infiltration? You make it sound like an invasion concocted by nefarious solo playing individuals to undermine your enjoyment.
On the subject of rewards, I personally believe in rewarding players for the amount of effort they put in. However, that doesn't imply that rewards should only be applicable to certain playstyles. For instance, 1 player in a raid might have the opportunity to obtain a helm in one single raid. Another player in a group has the opportunity to obtain the same helm, but may have to put more time and effort to get it (due to the difference in complexity in the encounter). Another solo player has the opportunity to get the same helm too, but the amount of time and effort required maybe considerable.
The point is that MMO's don't HAVE to be centred solely around one particular playstyle. The same goes for rewards. It all comes down to providing balanced options to the player.
More balanced options = happier/larger playerbase = more money = greater life expectancy of the MMO
If you're going to respond and tell me why we can't have any MMOs like that, please give me a reason other than "it's an MMO", because that is lame and far from adequate.
It is not lame - it is right on the money.
You want to play in a manner that is contrary to the basic philosophy of MMOs - playing with other people.
Groupers should have their own games, since soloers have theirs - single player games.
That's fair. Instead - soloers infiltrate MMOs and demand to be accomodated.
Yet but you or others do not decide how an MMO is made, you have no right. You are nothing more than a player who enjoys grouping and if there is a market for a solo-centric MMO then tuff luck - find another game. I don't mean to be rude but the truth is you can't pigeon hold games into one type of game play. I can't demand Darkfall to change it's game design because I don't like it's mechanics. A MMO could be solo-based and still embrace a community and follow all the stipulations that require it to be labeled a MMO - grouping is not a necessity.
BTW most single player games now have multiplayer modes.
OK, so do you want to group because it's more fun to you, or because it's more rewarding?
Grouping should be done because that's the way the player likes to play, not because it's the only way to play.
If you don't like grouping - you shouldn't be playing a multiplayer game.
And it's not hard to come up with grouping bonuses to exp, or higher percentage drops, etc., to incentivize it. My point is that there should be no loot, NONE, that is only available through grouping.
My point is that people who want to solo should feel grateful that MMOs don't keep them in a lobby until they find someone (even one player) to group with.
In your raiding example; let's say it took those 24 people 2 hours to complete the raid and 4 of them got a piece of loot. At that rate, it would take 12 hours for each person to get a piece of that loot. So how about that instance also had a soloable option that would take the soloer, say, 15 hours to obtain one piece of loot. This offsets the hassle of setting up the raid and doesn't make soloing the 'better' option, but it allows the soloer a method to acquire the same gear.
Also, you keep forgetting that there are lots of reasons to solo in an MMO that have nothing to do with combat. Soloing in an MMO is very very different from playing a single player game. MMO's feel alive, they have tons more content, they have auction houses,
I am fine with players having access to AHs, and crafting while soloing.
they are constantly expanding and growing, etc etc. Soloing in an MMO does not equal a SP game with chat, it's much much more.
Finally, I am only asking for SOME, not all, MMOs to be this way. Is that so unreasonable? Does every MMO have to fit your definition?
Yes.
If solo games don't have enough content, then get on the devs to give you more. Some of them do provide DLC and expansions. Where's the problem?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Yet but you or others do not decide how an MMO is made, you have no right.
More right than someone who demands solo content in a multiplayer game.
You are nothing more than a player who enjoys grouping and if there is a market for a solo-centric MMO then tuff luck - find another game. I don't mean to be rude but the truth is you can't pigeon hold games into one type of game play. I can't demand Darkfall to change it's game design because I don't like it's mechanics. A MMO could be solo-based and still embrace a community and follow all the stipulations that require it to be labeled a MMO - grouping is not a necessity.
Yes it is.Mutliplayer games are games played together by more than one person.
BTW most single player games now have multiplayer modes.
Then that is an issue soloers have a right to complain about. But then, you can always play the game solo and not be affected by other players at all. Groupers can't do that. The nature of multiplayer games is that you are affected by other players. The harm is done when some/many of those other players want to solo.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Yet but you or others do not decide how an MMO is made, you have no right.
More right than someone who demands solo content in a multiplayer game.
You are nothing more than a player who enjoys grouping and if there is a market for a solo-centric MMO then tuff luck - find another game. I don't mean to be rude but the truth is you can't pigeon hold games into one type of game play. I can't demand Darkfall to change it's game design because I don't like it's mechanics. A MMO could be solo-based and still embrace a community and follow all the stipulations that require it to be labeled a MMO - grouping is not a necessity.
Yes it is.Mutliplayer games are games played together by more than one person.
BTW most single player games now have multiplayer modes.
Then that is an issue soloers have a right to complain about. But then, you can always play the game solo and not be affected by other players at all. Groupers can't do that. The nature of multiplayer games is that you are affected by other players. The harm is done when some/many of those other players want to solo.
You have no more right than someone demanding a cute cuddling bunny in a MMO. Where do you get your sense of entitlement? You are not greater than any other player, the same as me and the posters before us.
Yes, MMO are games to be player by more than one person. You can not create your own rule set, that's counterproductive to this discussion as well as real life.
Who cares? If I don't like a game I just don't play it, what's your problem. No one is forcing you to play a game you don't like. You are ranting in here like some kind of dictator demanding there be no other ways to play a game except the ways you deem worthy. That is nonsense and immature in my opinion.
Have developers make everything in the game solo including boss fights and this is how....
Have mobs all be solo, and then upgrade to a stronger mob to match the number of players its engaged by....
This is such an easy fix I dont know why you all havent thought of this yet.
We have.
Soloers don't have to look for group members, worry about people dropping out/going AFK/getting disconnected. Soloing is easier.
Grouping is more difficult/troublesome.
WHAT'S EASIER?:
Playing a singleplayer game, or trying to get MMOs to change for you?
"Difficult / troublesome"? No. That's a poor choice of words don't you think?
"Tedious" when there isn't enough incentive for people to actually group with, and therefore you spend hours set in a "queue" or spamming chat for more members? Yes.
"Frustrating and embarrasing" when you disconnect and thus wipe the whole group? Yes. But this happens to solo'ers too, so the point is moot.
There is nothing "difficult" about finding a group. It doesn't take as much effort as you are implying. It only takes time. So please stop trying to imply otherwise.
The point is that it is not the fault of the solo players if they have more activities to keep them amused than group players. And likewise, its not the fault of the grouping players if devs don't provide enough activities for solo'ers.
Blame the devs for not providing enough incentive for people to partake in your chosen playstyle, don't try to blame the playstyle itself. Want more people to group up? Get the devs to provide more incentives to do so.
"Difficult / troublesome"? No. That's a poor choice of words don't you think?
Nope.
"Tedious" when there isn't enough incentive for people to actually group with, and therefore you spend hours set in a "queue" or spamming chat for more members? Yes.
"Frustrating and embarrasing" when you disconnect and thus wipe the whole group? Yes. But this happens to solo'ers too, so the point is moot.
"Tedious" and "Frustrating" both fit under "troublesome".
D/C and wipe? Five times as likely in a group of five as when soloing.
There is nothing "difficult" about finding a group. It doesn't take as much effort as you are implying. It only takes time. So please stop trying to imply otherwise.
The point is that it is not the fault of the solo players if they have more activities to keep them amused than group players. And likewise, its not the fault of the grouping players if devs don't provide enough activities for solo'ers.
Blame the devs for not providing enough incentive for people to partake in your chosen playstyle, don't try to blame the playstyle itself.
Indeed. Enough incentive would be: making mobs less than five levels higher than you not give any xp.
Try soloing now.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
For me personally? Impossible. For the growing number of players looking for that type of game play? More likely by the day.
There aren't enough good MMOs out there now. I don't want some designs being lost to the 'solo MMORPG' delusion.
Heck, it could even get some of those soloers out of the games you enjoy, why fight against it?
Oh, my ideas would get them out. No trouble at all.
We've lost too many good MMOs to the traditional delusion as well. You should welcome a change, it may not be to your liking but it could create better systems even in group based games. We need something to remix this genre and I would start at bee hive. All traditional canon should be in question.
"Difficult / troublesome"? No. That's a poor choice of words don't you think?
Nope.
"Tedious" when there isn't enough incentive for people to actually group with, and therefore you spend hours set in a "queue" or spamming chat for more members? Yes.
"Frustrating and embarrasing" when you disconnect and thus wipe the whole group? Yes. But this happens to solo'ers too, so the point is moot.
"Tedious" and "Frustrating" both fit under "troublesome".
D/C and wipe? Five times as likely in a group of five as when soloing.
There is nothing "difficult" about finding a group. It doesn't take as much effort as you are implying. It only takes time. So please stop trying to imply otherwise.
The point is that it is not the fault of the solo players if they have more activities to keep them amused than group players. And likewise, its not the fault of the grouping players if devs don't provide enough activities for solo'ers.
Blame the devs for not providing enough incentive for people to partake in your chosen playstyle, don't try to blame the playstyle itself.
Indeed. Enough incentive would be: making mobs less than five levels higher than you not give any xp.
Try soloing now.
D/C and wiping more likely in a group? Not necessarily. Depends on the connection to the server. Crap connections can be obtained by anyone for a myriad of reasons. Just because theres five times more people does not imply for one minute that ANY of them will get a DC. On the other hand, a solo'er could end up DC'ing every 5 mins. Connection issues are not necessarily playstyle specific. Therefore, it doesn't for one minute back up your argument that finding a group is more "difficult" than soloing.
And so, rather than give balanced options that provide incentives for each playstyle, your solution is to remove the options altogether.
Didn't SOE try something similar by making anything beyond Level 25ish completely unsoloable in EQ2 when it launched? And everyone who tried to solo anything beyond that level jumped ship to WoW. That worked well in SOE's favour didn't it?
You're not interested in anything else but to drive out the solo'ers leaving an exclusively small playerbase who are desperate to hang onto the "old times" as they recall them through their rose tinted glasses. Good luck on that one.
Comments
I feel everyone on this one...One thing i'll say is if it was just solo play then it woldnt be an MMORPG, like really! I enjoy both solo play and group play alike...for some reason I like group play when your own a huge quest that deals with plenty of mini-bosses and an overwhelming strong boss...but then solo play is good when you want to chill out and have time to yourself as you enjoy every other aspects of the game!!! ^^ That concludes my opinion...
(PS: I'm seriously tired of the point and click >:[ ...where's an MMO that brings the action like Devil May Cry!!! That would bring me to joy, happiness, and to tears!!! T.T...I might as well do that myself, you'll see my games one day...one day)
You're a crazy senile disillusioned.. Okay I won't go there. LoL Since 2000 I've played MMORPGs. Ultima for a lil' while, EQ for a long while, and been in every other odd twist here and there since then. 1337 names were there then! The community is exaclty the same. It'll always have these guys. Remember "WTS HQ foreskin" or "Odoyle Rules!" ? No... How easy it is to forget. They got replaced with Chuck Norris jokes, but the core community for MMORPGs remains the same.
Now I'm all for group content in MMOs over them having more than 10% solo play. Not because I've been playing for a long time; but because mmorpgs are not good solo-playing games. Even the more 'arcade' style games (I think that's a retarded term for action game elements, but who am I to judge what is the opiate of the masses) like AoC or Champions would be horrible single player experiences.
SWTOR is seeming to want to change this.
I just found out Guild Wars 2 wants to change the whole grouping dynamic.
Regardless, MMORPGs are an extremely poor place for people who want to be 'i am the single most powerful thing in this universe' or be anti-social. Like the poor gamer who has the 'i cant say goodby so i alt-f4 at the end of a dungeon'. There are just too many great single player games out there to be enjoyed for hours and hours for developers of mmorpgs to include anything more than some cute little single player distractions to the genre. Add a few quest lines specific for the player's class to be enjoyed, hone up their role a little. Put some decent solo obtainable items out there. A little story here and there. Something more than 'take this X to Y in Z amount of time' I agree, but let the devs focus on group content because that's what the games are designed for. The most complex MMO out now is so simple, dumbing it down further would be ridiculous.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I have to agree, that's something WoW got spot-on, and with the new Dungeon Finder, it's even easier to quickly go from solo to team and back again. Now if only WoW would make a rich and immersive sci-fi MMORPG....
Hint.
Hint.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Im mostly just posting here and every other forum to try and regain a star i lost due to some troll reporting ME as a troll when i responded to him very politely.
anyway .....as far as grouping vs solo, I do pretty well in most games solo but no matter what game I play I find its very hard for me to find groups even though i really would like to play with other people, i mean thats why i play online games instead of my console. It's especially a pain when trying to complete a quest/mission that is made to actually need a group to finish. I end up alot of times waiting till im much higher level than the quest just to get it done. Or if i do find a group there is always a "ninja" that ruins the experiance grabbing an item that only my class can use and thats BOP even though im the only one of that class in the group.
so to conclude i really cant say which is better they both have their merits and all games should have a good balance of both which was mentioned by soemone earlier in the posts. I guess its most important to just have fun.....and beware of ninjas :P
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Oh God yes that would be awesome my inner Sci-Fi gamer geek has been so alone and depressed since Tabula Rasa shut down. I really would love something new along those same lines, wasnt there talk of a Starcraft based mmorpg at one time?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
i like the way you think, most free to play games dont really look at what the players really want, they just find ways to make more $$. for example, they make it so you need to pay $$ to get good in the game, or they make it so you sux without $$. i just really think free to play games should have btter costumer service
BOOKS FTW
Solo and group play both have merits. With solo play you can just relax and unwind after a stressful day at work. With group play you can be a part of a social group, take a role and contribute to your parties success or failure.
Raids on the other hand I would categorize as 'crowd' play. I tend to avoid crowds, ingame and in life. I just find it extremely boring and unrewarding. I would leave it in for people who like that kind of thing, but make alternative paths to attain the same gear. Usually this will make hardcore players cry and pull out their hair. This alone justifies keeping raiding in.
Why does EVERY MMO absolutely HAVE to be that way? I'll accept that that is your preference, but do you intend to play ALL the MMOs there are? Is it utterly unthinkable to have some MMOs that don't function exactly as you think they should?
Why not have some MMOs that allow the soloer to get the same rewards, but perhaps in a longer and different method. Do you think every MMO would suffer if a few allowed that? I'm not seeking to eliminate the benefits of grouping in all MMOs, I'm suggesting that some MMOs could still succeed if they worked differently from the tired old mechanic of 'solo to the end, then group or give up'.
If you're going to respond and tell me why we can't have any MMOs like that, please give me a reason other than "it's an MMO", because that is lame and far from adequate.
It is not lame - it is right on the money.
You want to play in a manner that is contrary to the basic philosophy of MMOs - playing with other people.
Groupers should have their own games, since soloers have theirs - single player games.
That's fair. Instead - soloers infiltrate MMOs and demand to be accomodated.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
So, MMOs can be one way and one way only and no one should even dare to think outside of this box? And it must remain this way til forever and forever?
Again, why? Why can't some MMO's have a soloable endgame? Simply because the game falls into the category of MMO and no other reason?
Where is it written that MMO's should be group orientated? Please don't use the abbreviation as an example.
The second M stands for multiplayer, but that doesn't imply anything other than multiple players in the same game at the same time. It doesn't infer anything else. The first MMO's were only group centric because the devs didn't have the resources to provide much in the way of individual gameplay. Hence why you had to grind a lot in games like Anarchy Online. Hanging onto such tradition (even though it has no relevance to the actual definition of the term MMO) just as futile and flawed as others who completely blame Blizzard for introducing the concept solo gameplay in an MMO. Solo play doesn't necessarily mean that the individual is anti-social either.
Infiltration? You make it sound like an invasion concocted by nefarious solo playing individuals to undermine your enjoyment.
On the subject of rewards, I personally believe in rewarding players for the amount of effort they put in. However, that doesn't imply that rewards should only be applicable to certain playstyles. For instance, 1 player in a raid might have the opportunity to obtain a helm in one single raid. Another player in a group has the opportunity to obtain the same helm, but may have to put more time and effort to get it (due to the difference in complexity in the encounter). Another solo player has the opportunity to get the same helm too, but the amount of time and effort required maybe considerable.
The point is that MMO's don't HAVE to be centred solely around one particular playstyle. The same goes for rewards. It all comes down to providing balanced options to the player.
More balanced options = happier/larger playerbase = more money = greater life expectancy of the MMO
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Yet but you or others do not decide how an MMO is made, you have no right. You are nothing more than a player who enjoys grouping and if there is a market for a solo-centric MMO then tuff luck - find another game. I don't mean to be rude but the truth is you can't pigeon hold games into one type of game play. I can't demand Darkfall to change it's game design because I don't like it's mechanics. A MMO could be solo-based and still embrace a community and follow all the stipulations that require it to be labeled a MMO - grouping is not a necessity.
BTW most single player games now have multiplayer modes.
Yes.
If solo games don't have enough content, then get on the devs to give you more. Some of them do provide DLC and expansions. Where's the problem?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Then that is an issue soloers have a right to complain about. But then, you can always play the game solo and not be affected by other players at all. Groupers can't do that. The nature of multiplayer games is that you are affected by other players. The harm is done when some/many of those other players want to solo.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
You have no more right than someone demanding a cute cuddling bunny in a MMO. Where do you get your sense of entitlement? You are not greater than any other player, the same as me and the posters before us.
Yes, MMO are games to be player by more than one person. You can not create your own rule set, that's counterproductive to this discussion as well as real life.
Who cares? If I don't like a game I just don't play it, what's your problem. No one is forcing you to play a game you don't like. You are ranting in here like some kind of dictator demanding there be no other ways to play a game except the ways you deem worthy. That is nonsense and immature in my opinion.
Why does it have to be versus, why not both.....
Have developers make everything in the game solo including boss fights and this is how....
Have mobs all be solo, and then upgrade to a stronger mob to match the number of players its engaged by....
This is such an easy fix I dont know why you all havent thought of this yet.
We have.
Soloers don't have to look for group members, worry about people dropping out/going AFK/getting disconnected. Soloing is easier.
Grouping is more difficult/troublesome.
WHAT'S EASIER?:
Playing a singleplayer game, or trying to get MMOs to change for you?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
To be honest, this is closer to my position on the matter. In addition, I feel grouping is important but there is room for a solo-centric MMO.
For me personally? Impossible. For the growing number of players looking for that type of game play? More likely by the day.
Heck, it could even get some of those soloers out of the games you enjoy, why fight against it?
"Difficult / troublesome"? No. That's a poor choice of words don't you think?
"Tedious" when there isn't enough incentive for people to actually group with, and therefore you spend hours set in a "queue" or spamming chat for more members? Yes.
"Frustrating and embarrasing" when you disconnect and thus wipe the whole group? Yes. But this happens to solo'ers too, so the point is moot.
There is nothing "difficult" about finding a group. It doesn't take as much effort as you are implying. It only takes time. So please stop trying to imply otherwise.
The point is that it is not the fault of the solo players if they have more activities to keep them amused than group players. And likewise, its not the fault of the grouping players if devs don't provide enough activities for solo'ers.
Blame the devs for not providing enough incentive for people to partake in your chosen playstyle, don't try to blame the playstyle itself. Want more people to group up? Get the devs to provide more incentives to do so.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Oh, my ideas would get them out. No trouble at all.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Indeed. Enough incentive would be: making mobs less than five levels higher than you not give any xp.
Try soloing now.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
We've lost too many good MMOs to the traditional delusion as well. You should welcome a change, it may not be to your liking but it could create better systems even in group based games. We need something to remix this genre and I would start at bee hive. All traditional canon should be in question.
D/C and wiping more likely in a group? Not necessarily. Depends on the connection to the server. Crap connections can be obtained by anyone for a myriad of reasons. Just because theres five times more people does not imply for one minute that ANY of them will get a DC. On the other hand, a solo'er could end up DC'ing every 5 mins. Connection issues are not necessarily playstyle specific. Therefore, it doesn't for one minute back up your argument that finding a group is more "difficult" than soloing.
And so, rather than give balanced options that provide incentives for each playstyle, your solution is to remove the options altogether.
Didn't SOE try something similar by making anything beyond Level 25ish completely unsoloable in EQ2 when it launched? And everyone who tried to solo anything beyond that level jumped ship to WoW. That worked well in SOE's favour didn't it?
You're not interested in anything else but to drive out the solo'ers leaving an exclusively small playerbase who are desperate to hang onto the "old times" as they recall them through their rose tinted glasses. Good luck on that one.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's