Lets take a game...called Ryzom for example. Ryzom is a great game, but the population is incredibly low. I was on tutorial island, and for 3 days in a row for 3 hours each of those days, tried to find a group because the tutorial quests had you go on group missions. And it was almost impossible if not impossible to solo it. I did no spamming, I asked in chat every 30 minutes or so...and because the population was so low, that it was impossible to find any groups to do the content. Even at peak time, the population was so low, that I just finally gave up trying to find a group and didn't finish the trial.
Now lets take WoW...sure there are a lot of low levels (alts mostly, but I still find the occasional new player)...and trying to find groups to do the low level content with his really hard, because either
A. You have to pay a high level to run you...and then there is still little social work involved in that
or
B. You have to stand around waiting to get lucky to get a group...and even if you do find a group, half the time everyone leaves before the instance is even over
This new LFG system is great, I don't spend an hour or more waiting to find a group, that is a huge bonus for me. I think this is a great feature.
Personally, I don't play WoW anymore (waiting for Cataclysm to give it a whirl again) but this is my personal favorite feature in the game. MMO's are designed for GROUP (not solo) content. I play these games to GROUP, not solo.
ANYTHING that makes it easier to 1) get into the game a play instead of looking for a group and 2) makes finding said group easier is a GOOD thing that can only enhance quality of play. I wish every game had something like this. I don't play a game for "travel time" - it's like the scenarios in Warhammer Online. I LOVED them - you would queue for a scenario, teleport to the scenario, and then back to where you were when it was over. This is similar to that mechanic, in a way.
I love it. Love it, love it, love it. I wish to high Hell Aion had something like this.
The WoW trolls are really grasping at straws for this.
Less socialization? The extent of normal socialization to get a group before was "LF2M H UP" "I'll join". If people want to talk I will talk with them. Its good to meet and talk with people outside your normal server. WoW is such a big game that people forget the server populations can be small so your pool of people to socialize with was limited. Some people may shy away from a conversation but most people I have run into so far will talk. If no one is talking then perhaps the socialization problem does not lie with the system but with you.
Less adventure? No exploration? This definitely shows signs of desperation. What "adventure" is there in going to a dungeon you've already been to a hundred times? There is none. Traveling to places you've already been to a dozen times is not "exploration" or "adventurous". When I was leveling up and went to the dungeon the first time there was exploration and adventure but now, a year later, that Im max level and well geared those aspects are gone.
The LFG system is great. Before I would sit in the LFG channel all day and find maybe 1 or 2 groups, sometimes even when I was on my tank. This system is even better for people that are leveling. Blizzard saw that people leveling and fresh max level people were struggling to find groups and get gear so they created this innovative new system to alleviate those problems.
Got obviously it's ups and downs. Giving people a higher chance to explore all content that it was earlier very hard to find groups for is a great thing. On the other hand, fighting your way through such contents also allows you to meet new people, and maybe join their guild and stuff. Well, if you meet them via the crossrealm you have to pay a server transfer first that is.
But... playing with people in a dungeon ALSO means that you "get to meet new people" - potentially a lot more than you could have otherwise.
I mean, anytime you interact with one of these people in an instance isn't that meeting someone new?
Well, i disagree that it is a bad feature that ends with socialization. But the adventure part is true.
My nephew started playing after patch 3.3. He is now lvl 45, went to all dungeons from the start to now witht he new LFG system, and DOES NOT know where is the entrance to any of them located...
And this will happen to every single new player from now on, and with every new Cataclysm dungeons to a great number of players. Why explore if you get teleported? If you level only in dungeons you dont even need to leave stormwind or ironforge. Just stand near the bank
New WOW LFG system: PROS Faster groups Fast travel to dungeon (insta-port there) CONS Less socialization No travel to dungeon (less adventure, no journey, world means less) Very gamey mechanic; MMO feels more like a centralized quest hub (Dalaran) with mini-games (instances, PVP, etc...)
Summary The new LFG tool is sort of a "milk-it-for-all-that's-left" feature I see creep into older games on their downward trend.
How can there be less socialization if players who have never socialized or contributed to anything outside of thier own inventory are now grouping up with and meeting new people, learning to play their class in a group environment?
For one thing, no one talks hardly in these new groups. The socialization I see is zip. Before the patch, you had to "talk" to build a group or accept an invite. Now you do not have to "talk" to play WOW.
I have played REAL MMO's, since I was fortunate enough to play in the '90's. And I have played table-top RPG's way before computer MMO's existed. I am telling you that this LFG tool is as impersonal as a date with a hooker. There is no substance to it.
Heck, you play with gamers from other servers half the time. Ever going to see them again? Worth building any cameraderie with them?
The more instant and Path-of-Least-Resistance WOW becomes, the less of an MMO it is. You say the new features "pulls people out of their bubble". It does quite the opposite. With insta-this and insta-that, with instances, with phasing, WOW is doing everything it can to put people into a bubble.
MMO's are about persistent shared worlds. Anything short of that is NOT an MMO, not a true one, anyway.
We call this mode of thought "one-true-way-ism" - it's unhealthy. Making blanket statements that anything you dislike disqualifies a game from being an MMO does nothing to improve your credibility; it makes you look like a religious fanatic trying to push his brand of God on me.
Got obviously it's ups and downs. Giving people a higher chance to explore all content that it was earlier very hard to find groups for is a great thing. On the other hand, fighting your way through such contents also allows you to meet new people, and maybe join their guild and stuff. Well, if you meet them via the crossrealm you have to pay a server transfer first that is.
But... playing with people in a dungeon ALSO means that you "get to meet new people" - potentially a lot more than you could have otherwise.
I mean, anytime you interact with one of these people in an instance isn't that meeting someone new?
*scratches head*
The few times I did the Dungeon Finder pug nobody talked. I said hi and got nothing. Anyway what they need to do is able to add friends from other servers and be able to group with them in the LFG system. Hopefully they'll add that feature.
So enlighten us what MMORPG has more "soul" than the Warcraft universe? Aion perhaps ... Laughs. See the above pure crap coming out of Wow haters. Get real : the clustering of dungeon servers were the biggest idea ever for this game. And their players like it. How would you feel if they added a few million populated dungeon players to your game ?
I recently played wow again for a week. In that week I counted how many people I actually saw in the game world. 10 other players. Is that what wow has come to? A lobby/instance game? People give Guild Wars hell for that kind of gameplay so how is WoW any different now?
So what did the game do to you? Murder and rape your sister?
Get real: World of Warcraft has the biggest populations of any mmorpg. And you simply lie when you talk about "meeting 10 people in the world".
You just hate the succes of it. And the fact millions are playing it.
A real good troll knows when it is time to hide before making themselves extremely ridiculous with obvious lies everyone can see through.
A simple advice: enjoy games instead of hating them.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
So enlighten us what MMORPG has more "soul" than the Warcraft universe? Aion perhaps ... Laughs. See the above pure crap coming out of Wow haters. Get real : the clustering of dungeon servers were the biggest idea ever for this game. And their players like it. How would you feel if they added a few million populated dungeon players to your game ?
I recently played wow again for a week. In that week I counted how many people I actually saw in the game world. 10 other players. Is that what wow has come to? A lobby/instance game? People give Guild Wars hell for that kind of gameplay so how is WoW any different now?
So what did the game do to you? Murder and rape your sister?
Get real: World of Warcraft has the biggest populations of any mmorpg. And you simply lie when you talk about "meeting 10 people in the world".
You just hate the succes of it. And the fact millions are playing it.
A real good troll knows when it is time to hide before making themselves extremely ridiculous whith obvious lies everyone can see through.
A simple advice: enjoy games instead of hating them.
I don't hate the game. I don't care really but I'm just stating my recent experience with it. Take that for what its worth, don't like my statement then ignore it.
I love it and I hope they extend it to raid groups. That way we can all raid whenever WE have time! I Shouldn't have to schedule my life around a game PERIOD.
So enlighten us what MMORPG has more "soul" than the Warcraft universe? Aion perhaps ... Laughs. See the above pure crap coming out of Wow haters. Get real : the clustering of dungeon servers were the biggest idea ever for this game. And their players like it. How would you feel if they added a few million populated dungeon players to your game ?
I recently played wow again for a week. In that week I counted how many people I actually saw in the game world. 10 other players. Is that what wow has come to? A lobby/instance game? People give Guild Wars hell for that kind of gameplay so how is WoW any different now?
So what did the game do to you? Murder and rape your sister?
Get real: World of Warcraft has the biggest populations of any mmorpg. And you simply lie when you talk about "meeting 10 people in the world".
You just hate the succes of it. And the fact millions are playing it.
A real good troll knows when it is time to hide before making themselves extremely ridiculous whith obvious lies everyone can see through.
A simple advice: enjoy games instead of hating them.
I don't hate the game. I don't care really but I'm just stating my recent experience with it. Take that for what its worth, don't like my statement then ignore it.
So why invent lies about "seeing 10 people in the world", which is ridiculous for everyone who actually plays the game right now and see the trolling part right through it.
The same guys who came up with the part of solo-ing from level 1 to level 80, now are the first to jump upon the group mechanism to level.
And the only reason is because it is in WoW...The only reason.
Learn to love games instead of hating them.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I love it and I hope they extend it to raid groups. That way we can all raid whenever WE have time! I Shouldn't have to schedule my life around a game PERIOD.
There actually IS a raid tool that works the same way, they just put it in a stupid place.
Hit 'o' for socials, there's a raid tab in there, on it there's a button that opens the raid finder tool. You can browse raids that have people looking to do them, and mark yourself as wanting to do one or more of them.
The bad thing is that the raid tool, the dungeon finder, and the battlegrounds are mutually exclusive. It would be useful if you could be in any of those queues at once, since it often takes quite a while to get enough people for a raid.
I don't hate the game. I don't care really but I'm just stating my recent experience with it. Take that for what its worth, don't like my statement then ignore it.
So why invent lies about "seeing 10 people in the world", which is ridiculous for everyone who actually plays the game right now and see the trolling part right through it.
The same guys who came up with the part of solo-ing from level 1 to level 80, now are the first to jump upon the group mechanism to level.
And the only reason is because it is in WoW...The only reason.
Learn to love games instead of hating them.
I'm not lying about what I saw. I was on a medium pop server, Eitrigg. Perhaps it is an isolated case here but it is what it is.
The new LFG is certainly a boon for new players (and alts). I am just of two minds on the feature.
The WoW trolls are really grasping at straws for this. Less adventure? No exploration?
This definitely shows signs of desperation. What "adventure" is there in going to a dungeon you've already been to a hundred times? There is none. Traveling to places you've already been to a dozen times is not "exploration" or "adventurous". When I was leveling up and went to the dungeon the first time there was exploration and adventure but now, a year later, that Im max level and well geared those aspects are gone.
O_o
I don't know how you can't see that as a valid argument. You could certainly make a case that the benefits of this feature far outweigh the negatives in which case I would agree with you but to write this off as simply people being trolls is just silly.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
New WOW LFG system: PROS Faster groups Fast travel to dungeon (insta-port there) CONS Less socialization No travel to dungeon (less adventure, no journey, world means less) Very gamey mechanic; MMO feels more like a centralized quest hub (Dalaran) with mini-games (instances, PVP, etc...)
Summary The new LFG tool is sort of a "milk-it-for-all-that's-left" feature I see creep into older games on their downward trend.
How can there be less socialization if players who have never socialized or contributed to anything outside of thier own inventory are now grouping up with and meeting new people, learning to play their class in a group environment?
For one thing, no one talks hardly in these new groups. The socialization I see is zip. Before the patch, you had to "talk" to build a group or accept an invite. Now you do not have to "talk" to play WOW.
I have played REAL MMO's, since I was fortunate enough to play in the '90's. And I have played table-top RPG's way before computer MMO's existed. I am telling you that this LFG tool is as impersonal as a date with a hooker. There is no substance to it.
Heck, you play with gamers from other servers half the time. Ever going to see them again? Worth building any cameraderie with them?
The more instant and Path-of-Least-Resistance WOW becomes, the less of an MMO it is. You say the new features "pulls people out of their bubble". It does quite the opposite. With insta-this and insta-that, with instances, with phasing, WOW is doing everything it can to put people into a bubble.
MMO's are about persistent shared worlds. Anything short of that is NOT an MMO, not a true one, anyway.
We call this mode of thought "one-true-way-ism" - it's unhealthy. Making blanket statements that anything you dislike disqualifies a game from being an MMO does nothing to improve your credibility; it makes you look like a religious fanatic trying to push his brand of God on me.
I tell you, I have seen an MMO done right. Early EQ was magical. And not because it was a first game, I had tried other MMO's, text-based, etc.
The idea that the world is persistent, dangerous, beautiful, mysterious, and both a journey and a set of obstacles was exhilirating. In early EQ, they gave you a crudely drawn map; something like Christopher Columbus was handed, with the continents all out of whack.
You would look at the map and say to yourself, "A zone with volcanic activity. Cool. I think I'll go there." Or you might decide, "I've seen enough of Qeynos, I want to venture to Freeport, then cross the ocean in a boat to the continent where elves live." And you would trace out a path through zones, make dangerous runs while being chased by higher level monsters, cross through Kithicor Forest in the day and hope you didn't get lost before nightfall, and finally make it through the Commonlands to Freeport, hoping you could find safety before you were smacked down by some overconned mob. And when you got there, you were relieved, like you had just finished a race and could finally rest and celebrate.
The world had a sense of geography.
Then one day they came out with an expansion which created a central city zone (The Plane of Knowledge) and insta-ports. And "the journey" was gone. You just logged in, grabbed a group, and ported to where you needed to be. This was lame, and pretty much killed the game for me and many others.
Now, AltairEQ is right when he says that all games turn to crap over time. The only salvation, or extension perhaps is to do things like "Cataclysm"; remix things and see if that makes the journey exicting again. However, it may be that an MMO has 4 or 5 good years in it anyway.
An MMO gets old, top-heavy, then the crap features come out to keep the game running.
Originally posted by arenasb I recently played wow again for a week. In that week I counted how many people I actually saw in the game world. 10 other players. Is that what wow has come to? A lobby/instance game? People give Guild Wars hell for that kind of gameplay so how is WoW any different now?
I just checked to see how many people I could find out in the world. Theres more than 20 people in Borean Tundra right now on my server. And its early Sunday afternoon. Also, thats just Horde. Either you checked at 5am or this is BS.
Originally posted by tryklon My nephew started playing after patch 3.3. He is now lvl 45, went to all dungeons from the start to now witht he new LFG system, and DOES NOT know where is the entrance to any of them located... And this will happen to every single new player from now on, and with every new Cataclysm dungeons to a great number of players. Why explore if you get teleported? If you level only in dungeons you dont even need to leave stormwind or ironforge. Just stand near the bank
Sorry but Blizzard has already thought of this. Blizzard will be placing a number of restrictions on the new instances in Cataclysm with regards to the LFG tool.
As for your nephew, he's playing a 5 year old MMO, just be lucky he can get groups at all. Why dont you get him a subscription to EQ2 and see how many dungeon groups he gets. Even more recent and well populated MMOs like LotRO have problems with the formation of dungeon groups in the mid levels.
I recently played wow again for a week. In that week I counted how many people I actually saw in the game world. 10 other players. Is that what wow has come to? A lobby/instance game? People give Guild Wars hell for that kind of gameplay so how is WoW any different now?
I just checked to see how many people I could find out in the world. Theres more than 20 people in Borean Tundra right now on my server. And its early Sunday afternoon. Also, thats just Horde.
Either you checked at 5am or this is BS.
I was mostly in Icecrown and Storm Peaks. I didn't touch any of the lower level zones.
I recently played wow again for a week. In that week I counted how many people I actually saw in the game world. 10 other players. Is that what wow has come to? A lobby/instance game? People give Guild Wars hell for that kind of gameplay so how is WoW any different now?
I just checked to see how many people I could find out in the world. Theres more than 20 people in Borean Tundra right now on my server. And its early Sunday afternoon. Also, thats just Horde.
Either you checked at 5am or this is BS.
Originally posted by tryklon
My nephew started playing after patch 3.3. He is now lvl 45, went to all dungeons from the start to now witht he new LFG system, and DOES NOT know where is the entrance to any of them located...
And this will happen to every single new player from now on, and with every new Cataclysm dungeons to a great number of players. Why explore if you get teleported? If you level only in dungeons you dont even need to leave stormwind or ironforge. Just stand near the bank
Sorry but Blizzard has already thought of this. Blizzard will be placing a number of restrictions on the new instances in Cataclysm with regards to the LFG tool.
As for your nephew, he's playing a 5 year old MMO, just be lucky he can get groups at all. Why dont you get him a subscription to EQ2 and see how many dungeon groups he gets. Even more recent and well populated MMOs like LotRO have problems with the formation of dungeon groups in the mid levels.
Is that suppose to justify the fact of ppl not knowing how to get around in the world?
We are not discussing population here, ofc EQ2 is almost deserted, thats not the point.
Ofc there are alot of groups and thats easy to enter a group and that the new tool is great (but could be better if it werent for only work between battlegroup realms).
What im saying is that people wont know hot to get around in the world and the sense of adventuring died alot. THis is true, and does not mean the tool in question is bad
They're offering 7 days free for veteran accounts so I haven't had much experience with it so far. Just loving how I can login with not much time and leave it to auto find a group and port me to the instance. I can see it making me really lazy though like all the other features that WoW introduced to the genre where now if I go back to older mmorpgs I can't stand things like typing to NPCs in EQ.
It basically makes it so you can find groups very quickly for the instances you want to do. It warps you straight into the instance and then when you're done it warps you straight back to where you were before.
I love the fact now I don't have to wait for hours to find a group, only for someone to leave and the the group split up to then have to wait a few days for another group.
I hate the fact that it kills the population in the world, kills travel time which means the content isn't special anymore and everyones got the rewards because it is so easy now. I also hate how it kills the seamless world feeling by teleporting you everywhere.
I do think however it is acceptable as long as there are still rare bosses to take down in the game with rare loot that not everyone can get in a day of grinding instances. I also think it's acceptable as long as the instances are built in such a way that they feel like they're taking up space in the world and feel natural. For example The Dead Mines you have to run through the cave to get to the instance and then the exit is out the back. It just feels natural in the world and like it's actually there. I hate it when you talk to an NPC and you get teleported to somewhere that doesn't actually take up room in the world. You know make everything feel real so the entrance is actually there. I also hope that to populate the world again with Cataclysm that they bring back World PVP and let you capture contested territory, sorta like a Warhammer Online Keep system where you get to raid the cities in the end or something. I'd love to see hundreds of people PVPin in the world again like Pre Battlegrounds.
What kind of stupid poll is this? It has 2 yes votes. One yes vote says "As long as the world doesn't suffer." Wtf?
Isn't the world suffering whenever you put an instance in the game? An instance that is not part of the World. Of course the World suffers when you put instances in. Maybe fix your poll, Yes / No.
And no it's not acceptable. Go play Diablo 2 if you want instances.
This just proves Guild Wars is right,They are large amount players who like to skip certain parts of mmo gaming.Their is a market for gamers who want to skip the senseless grind in games,who just want to get to the fun part of gaming raids,arenas,minigames .Ironically though you still need to keep stuff in real game world for players or your game will go the way of fury.
The funniest thing is what would be perfect addition to WoW now would be a Public quest type system
This just proves Guild Wars is right,They are large amount players who like to skip certain parts of mmo gaming.Their is a market for gamers who want to skip the senseless grind in games,who just want to get to the fun part of gaming raids,arenas,minigames .Ironically though you still need to keep stuff in real game world for players or your game will go the way of fury.
The funniest thing is what would be perfect addition to WoW now would be a Public quest type system
Guild Wars sucks and isn't an MMORPG.
What does it prove? WoW is becoming more like a cheap game where you log into instances and you don't have a world? Big accomplishment.
Originally posted by tryklon Is that suppose to justify the fact of ppl not knowing how to get around in the world? We are not discussing population here, ofc EQ2 is almost deserted, thats not the point. Ofc there are alot of groups and thats easy to enter a group and that the new tool is great (but could be better if it werent for only work between battlegroup realms). What im saying is that people wont know hot to get around in the world and the sense of adventuring died alot. THis is true, and does not mean the tool in question is bad
Population is completely what we are talking about here and EQ2 being deserted is very relevant.
You could make a character on the lowest populated WoW server and even though there might be around 2 other people in your level range on the server of your faction it wouldnt matter because the Cross Server LFG tool has a pool of 17 other servers to group you with.
The fact that your nephew can get any groups of his level range at this late stage of WoW is only possible because of the Cross Server LFG tool. If he had joined WoW before patch 3.3 then his options for doing instances would be either have a high level do it for him or skip it. Your nephew would know where the instance entrances are but his experience with them would be - Uncle Tryklon kills everything in sight, I do nothing.
Also, just because your nephew can warp to the instances doesnt mean he cant explore the world on his own and find them. If he doesnt know where the dungeons are then its his fault not the fault of some tool.
Comments
I LOVE it
You know why?
Lets take a game...called Ryzom for example. Ryzom is a great game, but the population is incredibly low. I was on tutorial island, and for 3 days in a row for 3 hours each of those days, tried to find a group because the tutorial quests had you go on group missions. And it was almost impossible if not impossible to solo it. I did no spamming, I asked in chat every 30 minutes or so...and because the population was so low, that it was impossible to find any groups to do the content. Even at peak time, the population was so low, that I just finally gave up trying to find a group and didn't finish the trial.
Now lets take WoW...sure there are a lot of low levels (alts mostly, but I still find the occasional new player)...and trying to find groups to do the low level content with his really hard, because either
A. You have to pay a high level to run you...and then there is still little social work involved in that
or
B. You have to stand around waiting to get lucky to get a group...and even if you do find a group, half the time everyone leaves before the instance is even over
This new LFG system is great, I don't spend an hour or more waiting to find a group, that is a huge bonus for me. I think this is a great feature.
Personally, I don't play WoW anymore (waiting for Cataclysm to give it a whirl again) but this is my personal favorite feature in the game. MMO's are designed for GROUP (not solo) content. I play these games to GROUP, not solo.
ANYTHING that makes it easier to 1) get into the game a play instead of looking for a group and 2) makes finding said group easier is a GOOD thing that can only enhance quality of play. I wish every game had something like this. I don't play a game for "travel time" - it's like the scenarios in Warhammer Online. I LOVED them - you would queue for a scenario, teleport to the scenario, and then back to where you were when it was over. This is similar to that mechanic, in a way.
I love it. Love it, love it, love it. I wish to high Hell Aion had something like this.
The WoW trolls are really grasping at straws for this.
Less socialization?
The extent of normal socialization to get a group before was "LF2M H UP" "I'll join".
If people want to talk I will talk with them. Its good to meet and talk with people outside your normal server. WoW is such a big game that people forget the server populations can be small so your pool of people to socialize with was limited.
Some people may shy away from a conversation but most people I have run into so far will talk. If no one is talking then perhaps the socialization problem does not lie with the system but with you.
Less adventure? No exploration?
This definitely shows signs of desperation. What "adventure" is there in going to a dungeon you've already been to a hundred times? There is none. Traveling to places you've already been to a dozen times is not "exploration" or "adventurous". When I was leveling up and went to the dungeon the first time there was exploration and adventure but now, a year later, that Im max level and well geared those aspects are gone.
The LFG system is great. Before I would sit in the LFG channel all day and find maybe 1 or 2 groups, sometimes even when I was on my tank. This system is even better for people that are leveling.
Blizzard saw that people leveling and fresh max level people were struggling to find groups and get gear so they created this innovative new system to alleviate those problems.
But... playing with people in a dungeon ALSO means that you "get to meet new people" - potentially a lot more than you could have otherwise.
I mean, anytime you interact with one of these people in an instance isn't that meeting someone new?
*scratches head*
Well, i disagree that it is a bad feature that ends with socialization. But the adventure part is true.
My nephew started playing after patch 3.3. He is now lvl 45, went to all dungeons from the start to now witht he new LFG system, and DOES NOT know where is the entrance to any of them located...
And this will happen to every single new player from now on, and with every new Cataclysm dungeons to a great number of players. Why explore if you get teleported? If you level only in dungeons you dont even need to leave stormwind or ironforge. Just stand near the bank
At some point all MMOs start to turn into shit. I'm glad I stopped playing WOW six months ago.
How can there be less socialization if players who have never socialized or contributed to anything outside of thier own inventory are now grouping up with and meeting new people, learning to play their class in a group environment?
For one thing, no one talks hardly in these new groups. The socialization I see is zip. Before the patch, you had to "talk" to build a group or accept an invite. Now you do not have to "talk" to play WOW.
I have played REAL MMO's, since I was fortunate enough to play in the '90's. And I have played table-top RPG's way before computer MMO's existed. I am telling you that this LFG tool is as impersonal as a date with a hooker. There is no substance to it.
Heck, you play with gamers from other servers half the time. Ever going to see them again? Worth building any cameraderie with them?
The more instant and Path-of-Least-Resistance WOW becomes, the less of an MMO it is. You say the new features "pulls people out of their bubble". It does quite the opposite. With insta-this and insta-that, with instances, with phasing, WOW is doing everything it can to put people into a bubble.
MMO's are about persistent shared worlds. Anything short of that is NOT an MMO, not a true one, anyway.
We call this mode of thought "one-true-way-ism" - it's unhealthy. Making blanket statements that anything you dislike disqualifies a game from being an MMO does nothing to improve your credibility; it makes you look like a religious fanatic trying to push his brand of God on me.
But... playing with people in a dungeon ALSO means that you "get to meet new people" - potentially a lot more than you could have otherwise.
I mean, anytime you interact with one of these people in an instance isn't that meeting someone new?
*scratches head*
The few times I did the Dungeon Finder pug nobody talked. I said hi and got nothing. Anyway what they need to do is able to add friends from other servers and be able to group with them in the LFG system. Hopefully they'll add that feature.
I recently played wow again for a week. In that week I counted how many people I actually saw in the game world. 10 other players. Is that what wow has come to? A lobby/instance game? People give Guild Wars hell for that kind of gameplay so how is WoW any different now?
So what did the game do to you? Murder and rape your sister?
Get real: World of Warcraft has the biggest populations of any mmorpg. And you simply lie when you talk about "meeting 10 people in the world".
You just hate the succes of it. And the fact millions are playing it.
A real good troll knows when it is time to hide before making themselves extremely ridiculous with obvious lies everyone can see through.
A simple advice: enjoy games instead of hating them.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I recently played wow again for a week. In that week I counted how many people I actually saw in the game world. 10 other players. Is that what wow has come to? A lobby/instance game? People give Guild Wars hell for that kind of gameplay so how is WoW any different now?
So what did the game do to you? Murder and rape your sister?
Get real: World of Warcraft has the biggest populations of any mmorpg. And you simply lie when you talk about "meeting 10 people in the world".
You just hate the succes of it. And the fact millions are playing it.
A real good troll knows when it is time to hide before making themselves extremely ridiculous whith obvious lies everyone can see through.
A simple advice: enjoy games instead of hating them.
I don't hate the game. I don't care really but I'm just stating my recent experience with it. Take that for what its worth, don't like my statement then ignore it.
Well i like the new system but the pugs are weird sometimes.
"It's not that I'm so smart; it's just that I stay with problems longer."
-- Albert Einstein
I love it and I hope they extend it to raid groups. That way we can all raid whenever WE have time! I Shouldn't have to schedule my life around a game PERIOD.
I recently played wow again for a week. In that week I counted how many people I actually saw in the game world. 10 other players. Is that what wow has come to? A lobby/instance game? People give Guild Wars hell for that kind of gameplay so how is WoW any different now?
So what did the game do to you? Murder and rape your sister?
Get real: World of Warcraft has the biggest populations of any mmorpg. And you simply lie when you talk about "meeting 10 people in the world".
You just hate the succes of it. And the fact millions are playing it.
A real good troll knows when it is time to hide before making themselves extremely ridiculous whith obvious lies everyone can see through.
A simple advice: enjoy games instead of hating them.
I don't hate the game. I don't care really but I'm just stating my recent experience with it. Take that for what its worth, don't like my statement then ignore it.
So why invent lies about "seeing 10 people in the world", which is ridiculous for everyone who actually plays the game right now and see the trolling part right through it.
The same guys who came up with the part of solo-ing from level 1 to level 80, now are the first to jump upon the group mechanism to level.
And the only reason is because it is in WoW...The only reason.
Learn to love games instead of hating them.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
There actually IS a raid tool that works the same way, they just put it in a stupid place.
Hit 'o' for socials, there's a raid tab in there, on it there's a button that opens the raid finder tool. You can browse raids that have people looking to do them, and mark yourself as wanting to do one or more of them.
The bad thing is that the raid tool, the dungeon finder, and the battlegrounds are mutually exclusive. It would be useful if you could be in any of those queues at once, since it often takes quite a while to get enough people for a raid.
So why invent lies about "seeing 10 people in the world", which is ridiculous for everyone who actually plays the game right now and see the trolling part right through it.
The same guys who came up with the part of solo-ing from level 1 to level 80, now are the first to jump upon the group mechanism to level.
And the only reason is because it is in WoW...The only reason.
Learn to love games instead of hating them.
I'm not lying about what I saw. I was on a medium pop server, Eitrigg. Perhaps it is an isolated case here but it is what it is.
The new LFG is certainly a boon for new players (and alts). I am just of two minds on the feature.
O_o
I don't know how you can't see that as a valid argument. You could certainly make a case that the benefits of this feature far outweigh the negatives in which case I would agree with you but to write this off as simply people being trolls is just silly.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
How can there be less socialization if players who have never socialized or contributed to anything outside of thier own inventory are now grouping up with and meeting new people, learning to play their class in a group environment?
For one thing, no one talks hardly in these new groups. The socialization I see is zip. Before the patch, you had to "talk" to build a group or accept an invite. Now you do not have to "talk" to play WOW.
I have played REAL MMO's, since I was fortunate enough to play in the '90's. And I have played table-top RPG's way before computer MMO's existed. I am telling you that this LFG tool is as impersonal as a date with a hooker. There is no substance to it.
Heck, you play with gamers from other servers half the time. Ever going to see them again? Worth building any cameraderie with them?
The more instant and Path-of-Least-Resistance WOW becomes, the less of an MMO it is. You say the new features "pulls people out of their bubble". It does quite the opposite. With insta-this and insta-that, with instances, with phasing, WOW is doing everything it can to put people into a bubble.
MMO's are about persistent shared worlds. Anything short of that is NOT an MMO, not a true one, anyway.
We call this mode of thought "one-true-way-ism" - it's unhealthy. Making blanket statements that anything you dislike disqualifies a game from being an MMO does nothing to improve your credibility; it makes you look like a religious fanatic trying to push his brand of God on me.
I tell you, I have seen an MMO done right. Early EQ was magical. And not because it was a first game, I had tried other MMO's, text-based, etc.
The idea that the world is persistent, dangerous, beautiful, mysterious, and both a journey and a set of obstacles was exhilirating. In early EQ, they gave you a crudely drawn map; something like Christopher Columbus was handed, with the continents all out of whack.
You would look at the map and say to yourself, "A zone with volcanic activity. Cool. I think I'll go there." Or you might decide, "I've seen enough of Qeynos, I want to venture to Freeport, then cross the ocean in a boat to the continent where elves live." And you would trace out a path through zones, make dangerous runs while being chased by higher level monsters, cross through Kithicor Forest in the day and hope you didn't get lost before nightfall, and finally make it through the Commonlands to Freeport, hoping you could find safety before you were smacked down by some overconned mob. And when you got there, you were relieved, like you had just finished a race and could finally rest and celebrate.
The world had a sense of geography.
Then one day they came out with an expansion which created a central city zone (The Plane of Knowledge) and insta-ports. And "the journey" was gone. You just logged in, grabbed a group, and ported to where you needed to be. This was lame, and pretty much killed the game for me and many others.
Now, AltairEQ is right when he says that all games turn to crap over time. The only salvation, or extension perhaps is to do things like "Cataclysm"; remix things and see if that makes the journey exicting again. However, it may be that an MMO has 4 or 5 good years in it anyway.
An MMO gets old, top-heavy, then the crap features come out to keep the game running.
Either you checked at 5am or this is BS. Sorry but Blizzard has already thought of this. Blizzard will be placing a number of restrictions on the new instances in Cataclysm with regards to the LFG tool.
As for your nephew, he's playing a 5 year old MMO, just be lucky he can get groups at all. Why dont you get him a subscription to EQ2 and see how many dungeon groups he gets. Even more recent and well populated MMOs like LotRO have problems with the formation of dungeon groups in the mid levels.
Either you checked at 5am or this is BS.
I was mostly in Icecrown and Storm Peaks. I didn't touch any of the lower level zones.
Either you checked at 5am or this is BS.
Sorry but Blizzard has already thought of this. Blizzard will be placing a number of restrictions on the new instances in Cataclysm with regards to the LFG tool.As for your nephew, he's playing a 5 year old MMO, just be lucky he can get groups at all. Why dont you get him a subscription to EQ2 and see how many dungeon groups he gets. Even more recent and well populated MMOs like LotRO have problems with the formation of dungeon groups in the mid levels.
Is that suppose to justify the fact of ppl not knowing how to get around in the world?
We are not discussing population here, ofc EQ2 is almost deserted, thats not the point.
Ofc there are alot of groups and thats easy to enter a group and that the new tool is great (but could be better if it werent for only work between battlegroup realms).
What im saying is that people wont know hot to get around in the world and the sense of adventuring died alot. THis is true, and does not mean the tool in question is bad
They're offering 7 days free for veteran accounts so I haven't had much experience with it so far. Just loving how I can login with not much time and leave it to auto find a group and port me to the instance. I can see it making me really lazy though like all the other features that WoW introduced to the genre where now if I go back to older mmorpgs I can't stand things like typing to NPCs in EQ.
What kind of stupid poll is this? It has 2 yes votes. One yes vote says "As long as the world doesn't suffer." Wtf?
Isn't the world suffering whenever you put an instance in the game? An instance that is not part of the World. Of course the World suffers when you put instances in. Maybe fix your poll, Yes / No.
And no it's not acceptable. Go play Diablo 2 if you want instances.
This just proves Guild Wars is right,They are large amount players who like to skip certain parts of mmo gaming.Their is a market for gamers who want to skip the senseless grind in games,who just want to get to the fun part of gaming raids,arenas,minigames .Ironically though you still need to keep stuff in real game world for players or your game will go the way of fury.
The funniest thing is what would be perfect addition to WoW now would be a Public quest type system
Guild Wars sucks and isn't an MMORPG.
What does it prove? WoW is becoming more like a cheap game where you log into instances and you don't have a world? Big accomplishment.
You could make a character on the lowest populated WoW server and even though there might be around 2 other people in your level range on the server of your faction it wouldnt matter because the Cross Server LFG tool has a pool of 17 other servers to group you with.
The fact that your nephew can get any groups of his level range at this late stage of WoW is only possible because of the Cross Server LFG tool. If he had joined WoW before patch 3.3 then his options for doing instances would be either have a high level do it for him or skip it. Your nephew would know where the instance entrances are but his experience with them would be - Uncle Tryklon kills everything in sight, I do nothing.
Also, just because your nephew can warp to the instances doesnt mean he cant explore the world on his own and find them. If he doesnt know where the dungeons are then its his fault not the fault of some tool.