Originally posted by greed0104 I started out in sandbox, I moved on to themeparks. Until there is a quality sandbox game to come along I'll stick with themeparks. I group, I also like to solo, I don't need to have somebody following me around all day. I also don't need instant gratification. All these old MMOs had going for them was community which was nothing more then the like minded whiners unable to adapt to changes or find a new game, instead they make a million posts, like this one, claiming soloers should play a singleplayer game. The ironic part is, that's all you guys will have to play sooner or later unless you, guess what? Adapt. btw, the 3 games you listed are still up and running, return to them.
Completely opposite of what you said last time. Good job. Refer to my other post. I don't find any nostalgia in any of those games. I had fun with them sure but was a long time ago. I also said nothing about people who like to solo should find a single player game. I can understand having more fun with a bunch of people running around doing their thing. Brings the world to life.
If you're going to respond to my posts, in the future please don't take them out of context and spin them the way you want them to sound. It's well, stupid.
I didn't say anything to the opposite. I also didn't take anything out of context. I'm talking about the OP and the same threads like this, I wasn't even directing most of this at you. I'm just explaining what most of these guys fall back on.
Companies make MMOs to make money. Good business sense will tell you to adapt and go to where the market is. Common sense should tell you to adapt and over come. Stop trying to be dramatic and just pick a game to play like the rest of us do. The only breed that should be dying, but isn't, is the whining gamers claiming how they use to run their characters up a hill in the snow barefooted both ways, to get to their quest/grind area. /gives tissue and a "good game"
mm every mmo maker today copy and paste wow.that is it nothing else.
hell i loved world of warcraft original since it had world raid and all made it epic but the full instancing has just killed it for me
dont get me wrong i love instance since it speed up some stuff but
i also dig world raid event once a week also since it makes for epic battle
I've been doing MMOs a long time. I've played practically every MMO out there, even beta'd some that never launched (eg Gods and Heroes). I was on MUDs when EQ and UO were still in the development stages, heck I even played Legend Of the Red Dragon on those dial-up BBS's. Suffice it to say I've been into the "genre" as I would define it for quiet a long time.
I understand what the OP is saying. I remember how crazy it was the first time I zoned into Oasis in EQ and it was like an entirely different world compared to where I'd just come from. There were war stories of a giant alligator named Lockjaw that would appear and murder everyone! It doesn't seem like much these days, but when everything was new, it all seemed so big and scary and unknown. It was a major undertaking if you tried to get from one side of the map to the other. It really was pretty epic.
Unfortunately, things change though. As we play the games more and more, we get more used to the mechanics and the experiences and we grow alongside the game. The problem is while we look fondly back on those first new steps out into this (then) unknown thing, we remember how much awe we had at everything, and we long for that. Sadly, it can never be brought back, because now we've experienced it all. Where once we wondered what was on the other side of that mountain, now we've been around the planet, to the moon, and beyond. It all became trivial in scope because we grew as we played. While we do remember fondly, we must also remember the things that we left behind that made the games better (in most people's eyes anyways). Ninja-looting, Trains, Looting your own Corpse, losing your corpse, etc.
I think it's simply that those of us who have been around longer see all this new stuff aimed at people who are being introduced to it firsthand, and while they still get the feeling of wonder at it all, we've seen enough of it already that it loses some of it's shine.
My advice for the OP and any other "jaded old vets" out there would be to go back to the basic facet of these games. You're supposed to be having fun with friends. Find a game that lets you do that, and just enjoy it. Don't try to ponder things that you miss or think would make this game better, etc. Just enjoy.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
This is not meant to "rip" on anyone but just pointing out a fact. Horrible spelling, grammar, punctuation and other written mistakes never help out your opinion/stance. If you choose to express your feelings, please take the time to do it correctly otherwise the rest of 'us' will disregard your post as uneducated and without value.
I've been doing MMOs a long time. I've played practically every MMO out there, even beta'd some that never launched (eg Gods and Heroes). I was on MUDs when EQ and UO were still in the development stages, heck I even played Legend Of the Red Dragon on those dial-up BBS's. Suffice it to say I've been into the "genre" as I would define it for quiet a long time. I understand what the OP is saying. I remember how crazy it was the first time I zoned into Oasis in EQ and it was like an entirely different world compared to where I'd just come from. There were war stories of a giant alligator named Lockjaw that would appear and murder everyone! It doesn't seem like much these days, but when everything was new, it all seemed so big and scary and unknown. It was a major undertaking if you tried to get from one side of the map to the other. It really was pretty epic. Unfortunately, things change though. As we play the games more and more, we get more used to the mechanics and the experiences and we grow alongside the game. The problem is while we look fondly back on those first new steps out into this (then) unknown thing, we remember how much awe we had at everything, and we long for that. Sadly, it can never be brought back, because now we've experienced it all. Where once we wondered what was on the other side of that mountain, now we've been around the planet, to the moon, and beyond. It all became trivial in scope because we grew as we played. While we do remember fondly, we must also remember the things that we left behind that made the games better (in most people's eyes anyways). Ninja-looting, Trains, Looting your own Corpse, losing your corpse, etc. I think it's simply that those of us who have been around longer see all this new stuff aimed at people who are being introduced to it firsthand, and while they still get the feeling of wonder at it all, we've seen enough of it already that it loses some of it's shine. My advice for the OP and any other "jaded old vets" out there would be to go back to the basic facet of these games. You're supposed to be having fun with friends. Find a game that lets you do that, and just enjoy it. Don't try to ponder things that you miss or think would make this game better, etc. Just enjoy.
dont know how long you havent played everquest but i suggest you try it for a spin you might be in for a surprise
i played wow and everquest 2 and when i hoped on everquest it was a big shock,the graphic are a bit lower but its no biggy
but men the control i didnt expect.i go to an npc im like wtf cant speak to this dude i fiddle awhile after a while i decide to retry with a new toon and i didnt play smart ass this time i did the tutorial
let me tell you in my view it isnt for everybody ,but an experienced player like me (im not a pro lol)will have lot of fun in this
why!the game is fun and it make you think the whole way be it moving using spell etc etc etc
its hard to explain i love the fact that the game makes me think the whole way.todays game is just button mashing
mostly you can be drunk like hell not seeing screen and you ll still do good
not in everquest!in everyquest you got to USE your brain.yes even today and thats THE big apeal for me and countless other
i do hope soe bring back time card and newest everquest to ebgame i and lot of my friend would go buy it right away
This is not meant to "rip" on anyone but just pointing out a fact. Horrible spelling, grammar, punctuation and other written mistakes never help out your opinion/stance. If you choose to express your feelings, please take the time to do it correctly otherwise the rest of 'us' will disregard your post as uneducated and without value.
sorry if our english writing isnt up to standards.i hope i didnt use curse on you .not sure since i dont fully understand all word i write
i dont think i was disrespectfull but just making sure .
Companies make MMOs to make money. Good business sense will tell you to adapt and go to where the market is. Common sense should tell you to adapt and over come. Stop trying to be dramatic and just pick a game to play like the rest of us do. The only breed that should be dying, but isn't, is the whining gamers claiming how they use to run their characters up a hill in the snow barefooted both ways, to get to their quest/grind area. /gives tissue and a "good game"
if you would have read the OP (me) you would have figured that you just posted the same thing i said (minus the going up hill barefoot both way) in different words
i have adapted (read: tolerated) to the new generation and i am currently playing EvE online (been doing so for the past year. and when i can afford to buy darkfall im giving it a try (does it come with a free month?) (i thought that was clear on my OP post)
but the point is that we are seeing more and more who's first MMO has been WoW or later and their views of what MMORPG is what it is nowadays and we are slowly forgetting the past and the roots of MMORPG
I've been doing MMOs a long time. I've played practically every MMO out there, even beta'd some that never launched (eg Gods and Heroes). I was on MUDs when EQ and UO were still in the development stages, heck I even played Legend Of the Red Dragon on those dial-up BBS's. Suffice it to say I've been into the "genre" as I would define it for quiet a long time. I understand what the OP is saying. I remember how crazy it was the first time I zoned into Oasis in EQ and it was like an entirely different world compared to where I'd just come from. There were war stories of a giant alligator named Lockjaw that would appear and murder everyone! It doesn't seem like much these days, but when everything was new, it all seemed so big and scary and unknown. It was a major undertaking if you tried to get from one side of the map to the other. It really was pretty epic. Unfortunately, things change though. As we play the games more and more, we get more used to the mechanics and the experiences and we grow alongside the game. The problem is while we look fondly back on those first new steps out into this (then) unknown thing, we remember how much awe we had at everything, and we long for that. Sadly, it can never be brought back, because now we've experienced it all. Where once we wondered what was on the other side of that mountain, now we've been around the planet, to the moon, and beyond. It all became trivial in scope because we grew as we played. While we do remember fondly, we must also remember the things that we left behind that made the games better (in most people's eyes anyways). Ninja-looting, Trains, Looting your own Corpse, losing your corpse, etc. I think it's simply that those of us who have been around longer see all this new stuff aimed at people who are being introduced to it firsthand, and while they still get the feeling of wonder at it all, we've seen enough of it already that it loses some of it's shine. My advice for the OP and any other "jaded old vets" out there would be to go back to the basic facet of these games. You're supposed to be having fun with friends. Find a game that lets you do that, and just enjoy it. Don't try to ponder things that you miss or think would make this game better, etc. Just enjoy.
I think you've really got a point here. I hadn't really thought about it like that but there is definitely some truth to this. I can still get that feeling of wonder in certain games, but its very few and far between. The only game that really keeps it up is Mortal Online, despite its horrible lack of mobs lol. It's the only game I'm looking forward to right now.
Still, I don't think that covers everything entirely. I don't only remember the wonder of the world and what was coming up, I remember the strong sense of community in the games that required you to have help for certain things. A world with consequences when you died that created a community, because politics came into play, since people were trying to be diplomatic and avoid getting their asses killed, lol. I remember how you could set your own goals, and be satisfied even if you were much weaker than most people. You didn't just rush to end game because the end game was open-ended. You could top out whenever you felt like it and you felt no pressure to be competetive and catch up to everyone else. I think these themepark games where the fun doesn't really start until you reach max level just aren't as fun. People say they don't like how those games made you work for everything, but the fact of the matter is, for most of us, doing that work was fun. It made the game, and it made the reward that much more worth it. In these games you have to do just as much work, except it seems like more of a tedious grind, and you don't really enjoy it until you finally reach the level cap. That means I have to work for maybe 2 months to reach a level cap, and then I can start to enjoy myself, whereas I used to enjoy the act of building up my avatar over time. The game was fun long before you reached max level (if your game had a max level, that is).
Also, on the subject of PvE, I much prefer the old Open World PvE structure. I prefer having all the mobs in the world being accessible to everyone at any time. It made leveling much more of a thrill at times, if a mob that you knew would fuck you up came along. When you finally made yourself strong enough to take on one of these mobs, it may have been the hardest thing you ever did in the game but you had such a sense of accomplishment. In these games today, we'll take WoW as an example, the difficulty never really increases except with raid bosses. You only gain access to mobs when you're already strong enough to handle them, so you never really appreciate just how strong they are, because you're already on their level. In fact, most gamers don't even know what strong mobs await them in the next dungeon, although it's likely a different color version of a mob they fought before. In the older games you heard people that were stronger than you talking about these epic mobs they had to fight and you couldn't wait until you got your chance to take them on. These days you don't get excited for the upcoming mobs, because they're only a means to an end (usually loot) whereas in those older games the thrill of killing the mob was an end in itself, loot was a bonus.
Darkfall is exactly what we DON"T want. FPS type controls, crappy use it to improve it so you shoot at trees to raise your "skill" game mechanics? That's to cater to the console gamers, not the old school players. I think you would build a solid game that encouraged grouping, and I'd like to play one, but it sure ain't Darkfall.
nice try but you are 5+ months outdated. you can't shoot magic randomly to raise skills. maybe you can try again here, the kids there would believe you
if you would have read the OP (me) you would have figured that you just posted the same thing i said (minus the going up hill barefoot both way) in different words i have adapted (read: tolerated) to the new generation and i am currently playing EvE online (been doing so for the past year. and when i can afford to buy darkfall im giving it a try (does it come with a free month?) (i thought that was clear on my OP post) but the point is that we are seeing more and more who's first MMO has been WoW or later and their views of what MMORPG is what it is nowadays and we are slowly forgetting the past and the roots of MMORPG
yes buying df comes with a month of gameplay, sry for dbl post but im too lazy
OP, if what you're saying is true and there are many who are seeking a game like you describe, and this isn't just another nostalgia thing. Don't worry, someone will come along and build you a game just like you want. That's capitalism.
Vanguard was an attempt at trying to reach the EQ community. The EQ community didn't show up to play it. Vanguard didn't shut it's doors, but it was hardly a success. Sony is not going to spend a lot of money on it.
Why no UO style games? Investors don't think such a game would fly.
OP, if what you're saying is true and there are many who are seeking a game like you describe, and this isn't just another nostalgia thing. Don't worry, someone will come along and build you a game just like you want. That's capitalism. Vanguard was an attempt at trying to reach the EQ community. The EQ community didn't show up to play it. Vanguard didn't shut it's doors, but it was hardly a success. Sony is not going to spend a lot of money on it. Why no UO style games? Investors don't think such a game would fly.
And they are right. UO itself did not fly that high. Once EQ is out, it was overtaken almost in no time.
I wonder what will happen when people realize they are paying every month for a simplified version of a SPG. And don't expect too much from MO.
People are already paying every month to play Xbox Live. There is nothing wrong paying monthly for any game as long as it is fun and you find it good value.
old school MMORPG gamers i see more and more posts now with people that are asking for arena style pvp, instanced raids, gear grinders, easy to level, and continuous end game content. where winning depends on gear. i started my MMO days with ultima online, pre-trammel, and i know some that started with MUDs. for me an MMORPG is a big world that is so vast that to go from one side to the other would take some preparation. where content was created by the players themselves and the devs simply made the tools available to us. player housing was not instanced but you would build your own house inside the world. (you better put some security in that house because thieves can come and steal anything in it) the world was made barren and us the players made the end game content and built on this barren world, it was not about me, myself and I. it was about me IN my community (be clan or guild) versus other communities. we created fame by our actions and not by our gear and lvl.
yes it was a harsh world and solo play was extremely hard so people played in teams, and thats the way it was meant to. It was not for everyone and the developers knew that. and instead of trying to make that game appeal to more people they instead try to please their current communities. but now people are asking for MMORPG games that they can log in and play the way they want to how they want to. if they want to go solo, then the MMORPG of their choice should be able to cater to the ability to play solo. if they want to group then they have that option IF they want to. People want MMORPGs to be easier to reach the end game, and instead of making the game playable while leveling, they make it faster to reach end game (why not simply start them up at max lvl?) honestly i think if they want to play solo, they should find a single player game (oblivion, witcher, dragon age KOTOR, KOTOR2 , freelancer: a few that come to mind) if they want a quick in and out, then play adventure games, or Multiplayer games. i realize that this new generation of MMORPG gaming has the majority of players asking for MMORPGs that play like SP and MP games. and thats the reality of the situation. there are a few games that are comming out (some already out) that are inspired by the old days, but look at the bashing they get all over the place. (thinking of darkfall), though i agree it has its problems but not much more than the problems UO had (specially at the beginning) but give it sometime and darkfall will be up to what UO used to be (including player housing) and i would not be surprised if they have flying mounts (if they survive the harsh years to come and newer games with more budget) mortal online is also coming out eventually which has some promising features. right now i am playing eve. it has most of the features of old school gaming. the only down i see to it is the space. (its the same everywhere.) but its not enough to drive me away from the game cuz the good outweight the bad. right now i am very tight on money and i really do not have 50$ to spend on darkfall. but if i had i would buy it without hesitating. even if it has its flaws. again i am seeing more and more new school gamers and less and less old school gamers, we are a dying breed and its getting to a point of having 1 less old school MMORPG player (me) if 2010 does not improve. but i kind of see a glint of hope... hopefully it will not be shadowed by the new style. i know this is a wall of text hey, im old school. Andy
Yes you are dying and as long as you keep dying things will be just dandy.
OP, if what you're saying is true and there are many who are seeking a game like you describe, and this isn't just another nostalgia thing. Don't worry, someone will come along and build you a game just like you want. That's capitalism. Vanguard was an attempt at trying to reach the EQ community. The EQ community didn't show up to play it. Vanguard didn't shut it's doors, but it was hardly a success. Sony is not going to spend a lot of money on it. Why no UO style games? Investors don't think such a game would fly.
I bought Vanguard having been an EQ vet. Even with the problems it had. Then they added missives and people could get better loot grinding solo quests than doing dungeon crawls, I quit. If Vanguard had been released without the major hitching and other lag related problems, it would of been much more successful. I have tried going back twice knowing it's a different game, but it still has major lag/hitching problems.
You are probably more likely to get your credit card stolen from a mom and pop shop on main street (or even a local EBGames) then you are from a company like Amazon. If you are using a real CC, you are only liable for $50 if it is used fraudulently anyways ($500 for debit cards). So getting you CC stolen shouldn't really be a major concern to people. Getting your drivers license and SS# stolen on the other hand can get your credit messed up bad for years.
Darkfall's castle building sounded really cool to me, to bad it was added to a PVP game.
Games from the old days always seem better than the new stuff, it's called nostalgia.
I have been playing games since wayback. I played MUDs, I played UO, etc. Would I ever want to play a game like UO again? NO WAY. I didn't even play it very long back then. The idea of a large open RPG world with other players was awesome at first. Then you realize that it was much closer to painful work than entertainment. Spending hours killing bunny rabbits or hacking a training dummy just to get your sword skill to go up, mining for hours, no story at all, etc. The only way to get any cool gear or fight any cool monsters was to have a very high tolerance for mind numbing repetition and a whole lot of free time on your hands.
I don't know why anyone would want to go back to this, but if you do....it's still up and running, go play it.
Buh bye. Don't let the genre adapting to those of us who've actually grown up the past 10 years, hit you in the rear=)
When I was a kid, legos were really cool. Plastic monsters with bendy limbs were awesome too. I'd build buildings, tanks and creatures, bang them together and have a grand ol' time. Now they're not so new and fun anymore. Instead I build, animate and play with everything on a PC now and have gotten paid for it for 15+ years and get to see it on the big screen and watch how everyone reacts to it. I adapted and found fun in a new way.
I thought my Atari2600 was freakin awesome back in the 80s, but now it sucks. Grow up, move on, and adapt. Stuff that used to entertain you shouldn't after a while. If it still does, thats your problem.
I would like to see a game that was more open like UO. Though without the ffapvp The skills gains would have to be sped up a little or i doubt today's gamers would hang around in enough numbers for the game to last.
All they do is whine about how the content is too difficult, then Blizzard goes and makes the content retardedly trivial.
A while ago, 40 mans were removed from the game, because WoW players weren't able to clear trivial zones like Molten Core. So BWL, AQ, and Naxx had to be severely nerfed for the dumber players.
Now WoW players are left with an abundance of trivial instances. Somehow raiding those instances and getting gear that everyone else already has is fun.
They also want all of the endgame content to be shared by everyone regardless of skill. Clearly more skilled guilds should have to wear the same items as the same newbies who couldn't even manage to beat newb instances such as MC. Any gear difference in an MMORPG is "not fair to casuals" and "for players with no life". Because clearly, players who are better than other players have no life, and it's a pure time advantage they have over these people who have lifes. [/Sarcasm]
But really, that is how it is. If you are better than these players, they'll call it a time advantage instead of saying you are better than them. And blizzard has dumbed down WoW content so much you have to wear the same stuff as these casuals (I'd call these casuals skill-less newbies, because that is the basic difference)
They want a single player game too, they can solo from level 1-80 pretty easily. And a game where they can spam shocks till they are OOM then drink, and repeat 5000x to level up. There is no skill in leveling in a game like WoW. Just a waste of time.
There used to be a time when leveling required effort, and playing like shit meant you would get killed. But clearly getting killed in an MMORPG is too hardcore for these so-called MMO players.
"OP, if what you're saying is true and there are many who are seeking a game like you describe, and this isn't just another nostalgia thing. Don't worry, someone will come along and build you a game just like you want. That's capitalism."
nah, capitalism isnt about making what the gamers want, its about making what fills your pockets fastest. thats why we see games that has alot of lowlvl content and no end game content.
Developers know that a big part of the playerbase will leave the game halfway through so aslong as they buy the box and pay for a month of two their happy
thats one of the problems. before mmo developers were making games for themselves and listened more to the players. nowadays theres to many suits that tells the developers what to make to make the most cash.
"Originally posted by Josher
When I was a kid, legos were really cool. Plastic monsters with bendy limbs were awesome too. I'd build buildings, tanks and creatures, bang them together and have a grand ol' time. Now they're not so new and fun anymore. Instead I build, animate and play with everything on a PC now and have gotten paid for it for 15+ years and get to see it on the big screen and watch how everyone reacts to it. I adapted and found fun in a new way."
I rather play Super mario bros then Halo, GoW2 or whatever since i think its more quality and frankly more fun. I can pick up my old nintendo and play some Gunsmoke or punch-out and feel the same joy over and over. When i play any of the "new" games i play through them once then im just "meeh". Just look at Dragon Age, you play through its once, then your forced by bioware to play it through atleast one more time to unlock everything but you just dont feel it will be fun enough to do it.
to many developers today are all about the shiny and makes all nice graphics but the gameplay and depth is shite (AoC anyone)
before when the developers were limited in graphics they concentrated more on story and gameplay and thats why they in general are better
Everyone knows the tune from Super mario bros, but noone knows the tune from map 3 of Halo.
just becouse theres new games with better graphics doesnt mean their more fun, in most cases its the opposite
while i love the graphics in new games and the details in armor etc, im kinda missing the "feel" of older games and i can agree somewhat with the OP
Old school one of those terms that just shouldn't be used anymore.
I started UO in 98 and soloed almost all the time. Soloing wasn't hard at all. You did died, you lost all your stuff from time to time but replacing gm armor and gear wasn't really a big deal. So I don't know what you were doing wrong.
Player housing being instances now. Meh not really a big deal. This way the wilderness still looks like a wilderness not an urban wasteland and everyone that wants a house can get one.
Instant pvp I've always liked fps pvp which put combatants on even terms. I have always thought pvp in mmorpgs was more about who ganked who first or with the larger number or level. So again meh could care less.
I would really like to see a mmo that focuses on character development over gear farming. I'd also like to see item destruction come back. What I would really like to see are all these micro raids go away.
Yeah I don't really understand WoW players. All they do is whine about how the content is too difficult, then Blizzard goes and makes the content retardedly trivial.
A while ago, 40 mans were removed from the game, because WoW players weren't able to clear trivial zones like Molten Core. So BWL, AQ, and Naxx had to be severely nerfed for the dumber players. Now WoW players are left with an abundance of trivial instances. Somehow raiding those instances and getting gear that everyone else already has is fun.
They also want all of the endgame content to be shared by everyone regardless of skill. Clearly more skilled guilds should have to wear the same items as the same newbies who couldn't even manage to beat newb instances such as MC. Any gear difference in an MMORPG is "not fair to casuals" and "for players with no life". Because clearly, players who are better than other players have no life, and it's a pure time advantage they have over these people who have lifes. [/Sarcasm] But really, that is how it is. If you are better than these players, they'll call it a time advantage instead of saying you are better than them. And blizzard has dumbed down WoW content so much you have to wear the same stuff as these casuals (I'd call these casuals skill-less newbies, because that is the basic difference) They want a single player game too, they can solo from level 1-80 pretty easily. And a game where they can spam shocks till they are OOM then drink, and repeat 5000x to level up. There is no skill in leveling in a game like WoW. Just a waste of time. There used to be a time when leveling required effort, and playing like shit meant you would get killed. But clearly getting killed in an MMORPG is too hardcore for these so-called MMO players.
Its exactly the same in Lotro, while its not a hardcore game in any way, probably the most casual of them all, they dumb everything down to cater the casuals so they can reep the benefits from those that has figured everything out, worked hard for weeks to clear the instance and actually spent some time in the game. Preferably they want to get it for free from the nearest NPC (why do you care if i get the same stuff as you do)
I mean, what do you need the good gear for if you never do anything :P
Comments
Completely opposite of what you said last time. Good job. Refer to my other post. I don't find any nostalgia in any of those games. I had fun with them sure but was a long time ago. I also said nothing about people who like to solo should find a single player game. I can understand having more fun with a bunch of people running around doing their thing. Brings the world to life.
If you're going to respond to my posts, in the future please don't take them out of context and spin them the way you want them to sound. It's well, stupid.
I didn't say anything to the opposite. I also didn't take anything out of context. I'm talking about the OP and the same threads like this, I wasn't even directing most of this at you. I'm just explaining what most of these guys fall back on.
mm every mmo maker today copy and paste wow.that is it nothing else.
hell i loved world of warcraft original since it had world raid and all made it epic but the full instancing has just killed it for me
dont get me wrong i love instance since it speed up some stuff but
i also dig world raid event once a week also since it makes for epic battle
I've been doing MMOs a long time. I've played practically every MMO out there, even beta'd some that never launched (eg Gods and Heroes). I was on MUDs when EQ and UO were still in the development stages, heck I even played Legend Of the Red Dragon on those dial-up BBS's. Suffice it to say I've been into the "genre" as I would define it for quiet a long time.
I understand what the OP is saying. I remember how crazy it was the first time I zoned into Oasis in EQ and it was like an entirely different world compared to where I'd just come from. There were war stories of a giant alligator named Lockjaw that would appear and murder everyone! It doesn't seem like much these days, but when everything was new, it all seemed so big and scary and unknown. It was a major undertaking if you tried to get from one side of the map to the other. It really was pretty epic.
Unfortunately, things change though. As we play the games more and more, we get more used to the mechanics and the experiences and we grow alongside the game. The problem is while we look fondly back on those first new steps out into this (then) unknown thing, we remember how much awe we had at everything, and we long for that. Sadly, it can never be brought back, because now we've experienced it all. Where once we wondered what was on the other side of that mountain, now we've been around the planet, to the moon, and beyond. It all became trivial in scope because we grew as we played. While we do remember fondly, we must also remember the things that we left behind that made the games better (in most people's eyes anyways). Ninja-looting, Trains, Looting your own Corpse, losing your corpse, etc.
I think it's simply that those of us who have been around longer see all this new stuff aimed at people who are being introduced to it firsthand, and while they still get the feeling of wonder at it all, we've seen enough of it already that it loses some of it's shine.
My advice for the OP and any other "jaded old vets" out there would be to go back to the basic facet of these games. You're supposed to be having fun with friends. Find a game that lets you do that, and just enjoy it. Don't try to ponder things that you miss or think would make this game better, etc. Just enjoy.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
This is not meant to "rip" on anyone but just pointing out a fact. Horrible spelling, grammar, punctuation and other written mistakes never help out your opinion/stance. If you choose to express your feelings, please take the time to do it correctly otherwise the rest of 'us' will disregard your post as uneducated and without value.
Im having fun with Fallen Earth right now
Its a lot like older games and is less linear than most games
dont know how long you havent played everquest but i suggest you try it for a spin you might be in for a surprise
i played wow and everquest 2 and when i hoped on everquest it was a big shock,the graphic are a bit lower but its no biggy
but men the control i didnt expect.i go to an npc im like wtf cant speak to this dude i fiddle awhile after a while i decide to retry with a new toon and i didnt play smart ass this time i did the tutorial
let me tell you in my view it isnt for everybody ,but an experienced player like me (im not a pro lol)will have lot of fun in this
why!the game is fun and it make you think the whole way be it moving using spell etc etc etc
its hard to explain i love the fact that the game makes me think the whole way.todays game is just button mashing
mostly you can be drunk like hell not seeing screen and you ll still do good
not in everquest!in everyquest you got to USE your brain.yes even today and thats THE big apeal for me and countless other
i do hope soe bring back time card and newest everquest to ebgame i and lot of my friend would go buy it right away
we enjoyed the trial
sorry if our english writing isnt up to standards.i hope i didnt use curse on you .not sure since i dont fully understand all word i write
i dont think i was disrespectfull but just making sure .
if you would have read the OP (me) you would have figured that you just posted the same thing i said (minus the going up hill barefoot both way) in different words
i have adapted (read: tolerated) to the new generation and i am currently playing EvE online (been doing so for the past year. and when i can afford to buy darkfall im giving it a try (does it come with a free month?) (i thought that was clear on my OP post)
but the point is that we are seeing more and more who's first MMO has been WoW or later and their views of what MMORPG is what it is nowadays and we are slowly forgetting the past and the roots of MMORPG
Another one bites the dust...
Good riddance. For every 'old schooler' that leaves the genre, it gets better.
Kthxbai.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I think you've really got a point here. I hadn't really thought about it like that but there is definitely some truth to this. I can still get that feeling of wonder in certain games, but its very few and far between. The only game that really keeps it up is Mortal Online, despite its horrible lack of mobs lol. It's the only game I'm looking forward to right now.
Still, I don't think that covers everything entirely. I don't only remember the wonder of the world and what was coming up, I remember the strong sense of community in the games that required you to have help for certain things. A world with consequences when you died that created a community, because politics came into play, since people were trying to be diplomatic and avoid getting their asses killed, lol. I remember how you could set your own goals, and be satisfied even if you were much weaker than most people. You didn't just rush to end game because the end game was open-ended. You could top out whenever you felt like it and you felt no pressure to be competetive and catch up to everyone else. I think these themepark games where the fun doesn't really start until you reach max level just aren't as fun. People say they don't like how those games made you work for everything, but the fact of the matter is, for most of us, doing that work was fun. It made the game, and it made the reward that much more worth it. In these games you have to do just as much work, except it seems like more of a tedious grind, and you don't really enjoy it until you finally reach the level cap. That means I have to work for maybe 2 months to reach a level cap, and then I can start to enjoy myself, whereas I used to enjoy the act of building up my avatar over time. The game was fun long before you reached max level (if your game had a max level, that is).
Also, on the subject of PvE, I much prefer the old Open World PvE structure. I prefer having all the mobs in the world being accessible to everyone at any time. It made leveling much more of a thrill at times, if a mob that you knew would fuck you up came along. When you finally made yourself strong enough to take on one of these mobs, it may have been the hardest thing you ever did in the game but you had such a sense of accomplishment. In these games today, we'll take WoW as an example, the difficulty never really increases except with raid bosses. You only gain access to mobs when you're already strong enough to handle them, so you never really appreciate just how strong they are, because you're already on their level. In fact, most gamers don't even know what strong mobs await them in the next dungeon, although it's likely a different color version of a mob they fought before. In the older games you heard people that were stronger than you talking about these epic mobs they had to fight and you couldn't wait until you got your chance to take them on. These days you don't get excited for the upcoming mobs, because they're only a means to an end (usually loot) whereas in those older games the thrill of killing the mob was an end in itself, loot was a bonus.
That's my feelings on the matter, anyway.
nice try but you are 5+ months outdated. you can't shoot magic randomly to raise skills. maybe you can try again here, the kids there would believe you
yes buying df comes with a month of gameplay, sry for dbl post but im too lazy
OP, if what you're saying is true and there are many who are seeking a game like you describe, and this isn't just another nostalgia thing. Don't worry, someone will come along and build you a game just like you want. That's capitalism.
Vanguard was an attempt at trying to reach the EQ community. The EQ community didn't show up to play it. Vanguard didn't shut it's doors, but it was hardly a success. Sony is not going to spend a lot of money on it.
Why no UO style games? Investors don't think such a game would fly.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I wonder what will happen when people realize they are paying every month for a simplified version of a SPG.
And don't expect too much from MO.
And they are right. UO itself did not fly that high. Once EQ is out, it was overtaken almost in no time.
People are already paying every month to play Xbox Live. There is nothing wrong paying monthly for any game as long as it is fun and you find it good value.
Yes you are dying and as long as you keep dying things will be just dandy.
I bought Vanguard having been an EQ vet. Even with the problems it had. Then they added missives and people could get better loot grinding solo quests than doing dungeon crawls, I quit. If Vanguard had been released without the major hitching and other lag related problems, it would of been much more successful. I have tried going back twice knowing it's a different game, but it still has major lag/hitching problems.
You are probably more likely to get your credit card stolen from a mom and pop shop on main street (or even a local EBGames) then you are from a company like Amazon. If you are using a real CC, you are only liable for $50 if it is used fraudulently anyways ($500 for debit cards). So getting you CC stolen shouldn't really be a major concern to people. Getting your drivers license and SS# stolen on the other hand can get your credit messed up bad for years.
Darkfall's castle building sounded really cool to me, to bad it was added to a PVP game.
Games from the old days always seem better than the new stuff, it's called nostalgia.
I have been playing games since wayback. I played MUDs, I played UO, etc. Would I ever want to play a game like UO again? NO WAY. I didn't even play it very long back then. The idea of a large open RPG world with other players was awesome at first. Then you realize that it was much closer to painful work than entertainment. Spending hours killing bunny rabbits or hacking a training dummy just to get your sword skill to go up, mining for hours, no story at all, etc. The only way to get any cool gear or fight any cool monsters was to have a very high tolerance for mind numbing repetition and a whole lot of free time on your hands.
I don't know why anyone would want to go back to this, but if you do....it's still up and running, go play it.
Buh bye. Don't let the genre adapting to those of us who've actually grown up the past 10 years, hit you in the rear=)
When I was a kid, legos were really cool. Plastic monsters with bendy limbs were awesome too. I'd build buildings, tanks and creatures, bang them together and have a grand ol' time. Now they're not so new and fun anymore. Instead I build, animate and play with everything on a PC now and have gotten paid for it for 15+ years and get to see it on the big screen and watch how everyone reacts to it. I adapted and found fun in a new way.
I thought my Atari2600 was freakin awesome back in the 80s, but now it sucks. Grow up, move on, and adapt. Stuff that used to entertain you shouldn't after a while. If it still does, thats your problem.
I would like to see a game that was more open like UO. Though without the ffapvp The skills gains would have to be sped up a little or i doubt today's gamers would hang around in enough numbers for the game to last.
Yeah I don't really understand WoW players.
All they do is whine about how the content is too difficult, then Blizzard goes and makes the content retardedly trivial.
A while ago, 40 mans were removed from the game, because WoW players weren't able to clear trivial zones like Molten Core. So BWL, AQ, and Naxx had to be severely nerfed for the dumber players.
Now WoW players are left with an abundance of trivial instances. Somehow raiding those instances and getting gear that everyone else already has is fun.
They also want all of the endgame content to be shared by everyone regardless of skill. Clearly more skilled guilds should have to wear the same items as the same newbies who couldn't even manage to beat newb instances such as MC. Any gear difference in an MMORPG is "not fair to casuals" and "for players with no life". Because clearly, players who are better than other players have no life, and it's a pure time advantage they have over these people who have lifes. [/Sarcasm]
But really, that is how it is. If you are better than these players, they'll call it a time advantage instead of saying you are better than them. And blizzard has dumbed down WoW content so much you have to wear the same stuff as these casuals (I'd call these casuals skill-less newbies, because that is the basic difference)
They want a single player game too, they can solo from level 1-80 pretty easily. And a game where they can spam shocks till they are OOM then drink, and repeat 5000x to level up. There is no skill in leveling in a game like WoW. Just a waste of time.
There used to be a time when leveling required effort, and playing like shit meant you would get killed. But clearly getting killed in an MMORPG is too hardcore for these so-called MMO players.
"OP, if what you're saying is true and there are many who are seeking a game like you describe, and this isn't just another nostalgia thing. Don't worry, someone will come along and build you a game just like you want. That's capitalism."
nah, capitalism isnt about making what the gamers want, its about making what fills your pockets fastest. thats why we see games that has alot of lowlvl content and no end game content.
Developers know that a big part of the playerbase will leave the game halfway through so aslong as they buy the box and pay for a month of two their happy
thats one of the problems. before mmo developers were making games for themselves and listened more to the players. nowadays theres to many suits that tells the developers what to make to make the most cash.
"Originally posted by Josher
When I was a kid, legos were really cool. Plastic monsters with bendy limbs were awesome too. I'd build buildings, tanks and creatures, bang them together and have a grand ol' time. Now they're not so new and fun anymore. Instead I build, animate and play with everything on a PC now and have gotten paid for it for 15+ years and get to see it on the big screen and watch how everyone reacts to it. I adapted and found fun in a new way."
I rather play Super mario bros then Halo, GoW2 or whatever since i think its more quality and frankly more fun. I can pick up my old nintendo and play some Gunsmoke or punch-out and feel the same joy over and over. When i play any of the "new" games i play through them once then im just "meeh". Just look at Dragon Age, you play through its once, then your forced by bioware to play it through atleast one more time to unlock everything but you just dont feel it will be fun enough to do it.
to many developers today are all about the shiny and makes all nice graphics but the gameplay and depth is shite (AoC anyone)
before when the developers were limited in graphics they concentrated more on story and gameplay and thats why they in general are better
Everyone knows the tune from Super mario bros, but noone knows the tune from map 3 of Halo.
just becouse theres new games with better graphics doesnt mean their more fun, in most cases its the opposite
while i love the graphics in new games and the details in armor etc, im kinda missing the "feel" of older games and i can agree somewhat with the OP
Old school one of those terms that just shouldn't be used anymore.
I started UO in 98 and soloed almost all the time. Soloing wasn't hard at all. You did died, you lost all your stuff from time to time but replacing gm armor and gear wasn't really a big deal. So I don't know what you were doing wrong.
Player housing being instances now. Meh not really a big deal. This way the wilderness still looks like a wilderness not an urban wasteland and everyone that wants a house can get one.
Instant pvp I've always liked fps pvp which put combatants on even terms. I have always thought pvp in mmorpgs was more about who ganked who first or with the larger number or level. So again meh could care less.
I would really like to see a mmo that focuses on character development over gear farming. I'd also like to see item destruction come back. What I would really like to see are all these micro raids go away.
Its exactly the same in Lotro, while its not a hardcore game in any way, probably the most casual of them all, they dumb everything down to cater the casuals so they can reep the benefits from those that has figured everything out, worked hard for weeks to clear the instance and actually spent some time in the game. Preferably they want to get it for free from the nearest NPC (why do you care if i get the same stuff as you do)
I mean, what do you need the good gear for if you never do anything :P