what is so wrong with phasing? I thought it was one of the better parts of the WotLK expansion. WotLK was a disappointment for me overall though, some of it has to do with the xpac itself and some of it has to do with me playing the game since beta. People who enjoy WoW now will enjoy the Cataclysm expansion. Some ex players might return to see the new stuff but I know a lot of ex players that aren't coming back. I am undecided at this point, nothing from the upcoming xpac really excites me.
Well, "phasing" feels artificial and it separates players who normally would be standing upon the same ground right next to each other. It is a contrived and false game mechanic, and therefore a hit upon immersion. Now, to WOW designers, "phasing" is a method to vary the same square footage without expanding a zone, but it is still another form of instancing.
I was disappointed with WOLTK too; I felt it was more an expansion of a storyline than the game world. I prefer dynamic and spontaneous play to forced, scripted, storyline, on-rails gameplay.
I agree that "people who enjoy WOW will enjoy Cataclysm."
Well, although I technically see your point, i personally like phasing, because I believe it gets closer to immersion in the world. People have for years asked repeatedly for 'their actions to make a difference in the world" - phasing is a step closer in that direction.
After vanquishing a foe's camp - I forever change that zone. For instance, you vanquish an area of Scourge forces through a series of quests and the Ebon Blade moves in - you have a new flight path, vendors, and repair area (and runeforge) at your disposal.
It isn't like when ten minutes after you finish your quest line, the bad guys pop back up - ruining your immersion by making you realize your efforts did'nt really do a thing. With phasing your actions do matter.
And practically speaking, the adventurers who are most likely going to have common goals with you will also be there - so although technically those who haven't done the quest line aren't in the same area as you - chances are you wouldn't have much cause for interaction. Exceptions exist of course, but to me weighing the cost of losing some folks who I would likely be on a different track from vs. having my actions affect the game world.....I would chose the latter. To not phase means to keep things as most mmo's with static respawns where your actions are irrelevent to the game world. The very definition of 'immersion breaking'.
Under the current techonology, if you want your actions to matter in the world....i.e. the first person who completes the quest line changes the zone for everyone would be very difficult to manage. How would you be able to ever have enough content for each player if each quest can only be completed once, and after, the game world is changed forever? This is the paradox of 'having your actions matter'- you either have repeatable quest lines with phasing or with static respawns. Static respawns has been the standard since the first mmos - let's be open to new ideas.
if blizzard take all that time and doesnt up the look of vanilla wow(and im not talking of water ,since i couldnt care less about water,theyll have failed big time because player expect a rise in quality with such a major endeavor.dx11 maybe even microsoft donnybrooks if blizzard isnt too busy sipping coffee.
Uhhh, Dungeons & Dragons was a movie well before WOW. LOTR, too, for that matter.
The Warcraft movie is the first movie based around a 3D world we ALL walked in and adventured in.
I think that gives an extra dimension and challenge to the whole enterprise.
Lara Craft movie was based on a franchise as was D&D, Lotro etc...
SR said he wanted to recreate some of the landscapes of the game as faithful as possible. A challenge for sure. BTW he mentioned this very recently, so the theory the film is based on Warcraft and not World of Warcraft (landscapes wise) is already outdated.
Like I said earlier, with CATA in 2010 and the motion picture in 2011, I don't see any other game even remotely challeging the success of WoW.
And it was SR who dumped the Spiderman4 project btw, because he didn't like the script at all. Sony wanted to give extra writers to change the existent script but SR refused.
I have my own theory of course (in view of what SR recently said above): he is IN the game and wants to make that Warcraft movie ! )) just like the guys at Blizzard dumped their other projects just to make WOW back in 2001.
What else could be the reason )))
"There is something about ...WOW"
How about:
-Alone in the Dark
-BloodRayne and BloodRayne II
-Postal
-Far Cry
-Hitman
Not from mmos, but from games as is warcraft movie.
No water based content: boats, naval combat, under water quests and environments
As pointed by SaintViktor, same sauce...
Originally posted by SaintViktor
I see this being no different than the previous expanions except that the old worlds will get a facelift. The grind to 80 along with old armors being obsolete that everyone complained about in the previous expansions will still be there. Blizzard will just keep on milking the cash cow.
No housing Still no dyes nor social clothing No better crafting system No water based content: boats, naval combat, under water quests and environments
As pointed by SaintViktor, same sauce...
Originally posted by SaintViktor
I see this being no different than the previous expanions except that the old worlds will get a facelift. The grind to 80 along with old armors being obsolete that everyone complained about in the previous expansions will still be there. Blizzard will just keep on milking the cash cow.
Housing would be nice, but it isn't a must for mmos. Wow only really lends itself towards instanced housing and I feel that instanced housing detracts from the community aspect by removing players from communal areas and hiding them in personal instanced areas and wow doesn't need extra strain on the instance servers. Housing would be sweet if done right, but I don't think wow supports the right type of housing for mmos.
Dyes are just fluff and personally I could do without ever seeing another pink gnome or some rainbow colored warrior ever again. If done right maybe, but otherwise it is hardly some benchmark feature to judge by.
I like the concept of social clothing. Even though it is fluff I think it would add to the game, but still not a some major feature that is missing.
Wow already has underwater areas and cataclysm has an underwater city to explore; Sunken City of Vashj'ir beneath the sea. . Boat combat is an option I guess and wow has already added mounted, vehicle and to a slight degree air combat, so I guess boat combat could be done. I am not sure why, but I guess it could be done. There is already an encounter in IceCrown Citadel where players are on one ship fighting npcs on another ship with each team boarding the others ships.
Fluff and vanity items are cool, but I am glad that blizzard is focusing on gameplay, new mechanics and not fluff. There is already plenty of vanity items in the game. Not that more wouldn't be better, but everything has limits to what a production schedule will allow to be added.
SaintViktor is right to a degree. The expansion will be lots more of what wow has already delivered with a decent amount of new mixed in. To me, I prefer than to a game that keeps trying to redefine itself with each new expansion as it usually ends up alienating segments of players with each revamp.
Explanation: take a space SF game: planets will change according to what you or your group of players will do in relation to those planet systems.
Planets could go friendly or hostile in relation to the actions you or your guild would make.
And don't think I am too far fetched here...
Guild leveling will be introduced in Cataclysm, so group content based on guild progress is just another extension down the road to Cataclysm.
----> Always see the wider options and progress with Blizzard.
You have to see phasing within the structure of cross server mechanisms, clustering realm based content in which eventually millions of players will exist, instead of those 4K we know now in single realm based games.
Eventually you will understand.
Phasing is NOT the future of MMOs, or at least I seriously hope not for the sake of this genre. Non-instanced MMO experiences are the future of real MMOs.
Take Darkfall for example, the fact that everyone who logs on logs into the exact same world, and every action that each person makes affects the same exact gameworld that everyone else is playing in.
THAT'S the future of MMOs, and I hope to god more gaming companies have the balls to expand on that.
As for the OP, yes, of course Cataclysm will be a success. Blizzard has tapped into the insanely large casual/carebear crowd of the gaming community and developed a game that caters to that crowd. No matter what they sold, people would return to try the new content and no matter how long they stayed, Blizzard would still make a lot of profit.
Thank god there is a lot of us that can't stand the same type of MMOs anymore that we have been fed for so many years and all the clones that keep being released, and there is an ever growing group of developers that have the balls to take a chance for something innovative, new, and exciting. Darkfall, Eve, soon to be Mortal Online, and hell, even Fallen Earth, have all broken free of the staleness that is the current MMO genre, and continue to breath new fresh air into the market.
Here's to hoping this trend continues into the future so that those of us that are sick of the themepark staleness that diseases this genre can get our much needed fix. I can't wait for what 2010 brings, not only for Darkfall which is the game I currently play, but for the rest of the games coming out as well.
Explanation: take a space SF game: planets will change according to what you or your group of players will do in relation to those planet systems.
Planets could go friendly or hostile in relation to the actions you or your guild would make.
And don't think I am too far fetched here...
Guild leveling will be introduced in Cataclysm, so group content based on guild progress is just another extension down the road to Cataclysm.
----> Always see the wider options and progress with Blizzard.
You have to see phasing within the structure of cross server mechanisms, clustering realm based content in which eventually millions of players will exist, instead of those 4K we know now in single realm based games.
Eventually you will understand.
Phasing is NOT the future of MMOs, or at least I seriously hope not for the sake of this genre. Non-instanced MMO experiences are the future of real MMOs.
Phasing can be applied to everyone playing the game just as easily as it could be applied to different groups in the same area.
I don't think you are seeing the potential of what can be possible with phasing, but rather judging it by how blizzard has decided to use it.
Instead of making the world look different for each group of people based on their progression through a storyline, imagine that the actions of your group change a portion of the world for everyone playing.
Did you group fail to defend the town from marauding orcs? Well now your town is burned to the ground and the orcs have made it their new home and are building their own defenses that you have to fight against. Then if you take it back, you will need to harvest materials and rebuild the structures.
That is a pretty weak example, but giving developers the ability to dynamically alter the world in response to players actions is pretty cool if you really think about it.
That is a pretty weak example, but giving developers the ability to dynamically alter the world in response to players actions is pretty cool if you really think about it.
Anything that places players in different "gameworlds", i.e. different phases or different "zones", is a horrible thing to implement in an MMO, in my opinion. This is why I love Darkfall so much, because no matter how many people are online at one time in one area of the map, everyone will be able to interact with everyone else, and any action you make can have an immediate effect on anyone else in your general area.
Plus, with Darkfall's new Dynamic Lore System, which we have yet to really get a good taste of, the developers are going to be able to do exactly what you're saying (i.e. change things in game based off of player decisions and actions), WITHOUT having to utilize phasing. They are going to be able to do it in one huge, non-instanced world.
I just hope more games continue with what Aventurine has accomplished.
I just wanted to repeat that phasing does not have to be implemented in a way that instances players in the real world.
A developer can phase an area of the world (or the entire world) and have it apply to every single player in the game. This allows a very dynamic set of tools for developers. Some developers can use it to instance content and other can use it in a non instanced manner. Good for people who like instances and those that don't. Agree?
I've never heard of what darkfall is doing with its dynamic lore system. Happen to have a link to some information on it? It sounds interesting enough.
I've never heard of what darkfall is doing with its dynamic lore system. Happen to have a link to some information on it? It sounds interesting enough.
Basically, the developers have implemented tools in the second expansion Conquer the Seas to allow for developer run events that will have an effect not only to the gameworld of Agon itself, but also to the lore and history of the server. What I mean by this, is that players, guilds, alliances, etc. that impact particular events one way or another, will go down in Darkfall's history and become part of the lore. Every event they do can turn out a multitude of ways, all dependent on how the players of the particular server act and what their actions are.
Another great thing is that both "storylines" that are created through this system will be different on the NA-1 and EU-1 servers, meaning that each server can drive the history and lore a different way.
For example, Aventurine did their first test dynamic lore event BEFORE the tools they are now going to be utilizing were implemented, and a video of it can be found here: www.youtube.com/watch
Clues were given on the forums about what was going on, and actual players were eventually needed to be contacted in game to figure out what was going. Hundreds of people showed up, some defending the Ul'tannek transport, others attacking. At some point during the event, part of the defending team backstabbed the other defenders and starting their attack. All hell broke lose and the Ul'tannek's eventually were killed. In this way, each player had an impact on the event, and now future events will develop off of what happened.
The second event, the first one that is going to happen now with their dynamic lore developer tools in place, is about to start, and the information on it can be found here: forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
Basically, the players are going to affect what happens in Agon. With this new event, maybe the human, mirdain, and dwarve alliance will prevail and gain access to the trinkets, or maybe the Ul'tanneks will get them for their own. Maybe the trinkets are very powerful and provide crazy bonuses for the lucky groups who gain them, or maybe they will ressurect the Red Pharoah's pyramid, or maybe they will summon a ridiculous developer controlled world spawn. The possibilities are ENDLESS, and everything that happens will be determined by the players themselves.
A bazillion people will buy the expansion pack and play the heck out of it for 3 months, then put it down and walk away and wait for the next one in 2 years, grumbling the whole time that they are looking for something different.
Correction, you assume the 200 logged in posters over here represent anything other than 0.000001% of the players.
2008: 828 million revenu dollars in the first 9 months.
2009: 939 million revenu dollars in the first 9 months.
Since 2009 didn't even see a WOW expansion and ... China was off line half of the time ... your words are in touch with mmorpg.com but obviously not with reality...
Hmm, wonder why you are taking to quoting obscure financials (with no lniks) and not quoting recent subscription numbers.
Oh yeah, that's right, Blizzard stopped publishing them. Wonder why? Doesn't take a rocket scientist (or MMORPG.com poster) to come up with a pretty good guess.
One number we'll never really know (but I'm sure is quite substantial by now) is how many people played WOW at one time, and have walked away from it for good. (its much greater than you would ever acknowledge I'm sure)
As I said, Cata will be a big financial success (as always) but will leave people more dissatisfied and looking for something more.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm still curious as to how Blizzard plans to price this xpac for new players or for those who got rid of their account. If they are too greedy it may backfire.
I'm still curious as to how Blizzard plans to price this xpac for new players or for those who got rid of their account. If they are too greedy it may backfire.
I'm sure they will have some sort of packaged deals for new players. Otherwise paying over $100 for all of that is a mighty steep price.
I'm still curious as to how Blizzard plans to price this xpac for new players or for those who got rid of their account. If they are too greedy it may backfire.
I don't think blizzard really needs to price anything for people who "got rid of their accounts", but I do agree with you about new players.
They should make an all inclusive package, but if there is no need to I understand why they won't. If your company filled 3 of the top ten best selling products in your industry year after year, would you merge them all into 1 package and lose 1-2 of those spots?
Hopefully there is some stiff competition to force blizzard to really compete for subscribers.
I'm still curious as to how Blizzard plans to price this xpac for new players or for those who got rid of their account. If they are too greedy it may backfire.
I don't think blizzard really needs to price anything for people who "got rid of their accounts", but I do agree with you about new players.
They should make an all inclusive package, but if there is no need to I understand why they won't. If your company filled 3 of the top ten best selling products in your industry year after year, would you merge them all into 1 package and lose 1-2 of those spots?
Hopefully there is some stiff competition to force blizzard to really compete for subscribers.
They once have a battlechest box. They might print another chest with all but cata.
Originally posted by Kasmos Originally posted by Daffid011 I've never heard of what darkfall is doing with its dynamic lore system. Happen to have a link to some information on it? It sounds interesting enough.
Basically, the developers have implemented tools in the second expansion Conquer the Seas to allow for developer run events that will have an effect not only to the gameworld of Agon itself, but also to the lore and history of the server. What I mean by this, is that players, guilds, alliances, etc. that impact particular events one way or another, will go down in Darkfall's history and become part of the lore. Every event they do can turn out a multitude of ways, all dependent on how the players of the particular server act and what their actions are. Another great thing is that both "storylines" that are created through this system will be different on the NA-1 and EU-1 servers, meaning that each server can drive the history and lore a different way. For example, Aventurine did their first test dynamic lore event BEFORE the tools they are now going to be utilizing were implemented, and a video of it can be found here: www.youtube.com/watch Clues were given on the forums about what was going on, and actual players were eventually needed to be contacted in game to figure out what was going. Hundreds of people showed up, some defending the Ul'tannek transport, others attacking. At some point during the event, part of the defending team backstabbed the other defenders and starting their attack. All hell broke lose and the Ul'tannek's eventually were killed. In this way, each player had an impact on the event, and now future events will develop off of what happened. The second event, the first one that is going to happen now with their dynamic lore developer tools in place, is about to start, and the information on it can be found here: forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
Basically, the players are going to affect what happens in Agon. With this new event, maybe the human, mirdain, and dwarve alliance will prevail and gain access to the trinkets, or maybe the Ul'tanneks will get them for their own. Maybe the trinkets are very powerful and provide crazy bonuses for the lucky groups who gain them, or maybe they will ressurect the Red Pharoah's pyramid, or maybe they will summon a ridiculous developer controlled world spawn. The possibilities are ENDLESS, and everything that happens will be determined by the players themselves. Sounds like an extension of what Turbine was doing with AC1 over 10 years ago.
Also, yeah, we get it, you love Darkfall and hate instancing but do you need to repeatedly post in the WoW forum about it?
I've never heard of what darkfall is doing with its dynamic lore system. Happen to have a link to some information on it? It sounds interesting enough.
Basically, the developers have implemented tools in the second expansion Conquer the Seas to allow for developer run events that will have an effect not only to the gameworld of Agon itself, but also to the lore and history of the server. What I mean by this, is that players, guilds, alliances, etc. that impact particular events one way or another, will go down in Darkfall's history and become part of the lore. Every event they do can turn out a multitude of ways, all dependent on how the players of the particular server act and what their actions are.
Another great thing is that both "storylines" that are created through this system will be different on the NA-1 and EU-1 servers, meaning that each server can drive the history and lore a different way.
For example, Aventurine did their first test dynamic lore event BEFORE the tools they are now going to be utilizing were implemented, and a video of it can be found here: www.youtube.com/watch
Clues were given on the forums about what was going on, and actual players were eventually needed to be contacted in game to figure out what was going. Hundreds of people showed up, some defending the Ul'tannek transport, others attacking. At some point during the event, part of the defending team backstabbed the other defenders and starting their attack. All hell broke lose and the Ul'tannek's eventually were killed. In this way, each player had an impact on the event, and now future events will develop off of what happened.
The second event, the first one that is going to happen now with their dynamic lore developer tools in place, is about to start, and the information on it can be found here: forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
Basically, the players are going to affect what happens in Agon. With this new event, maybe the human, mirdain, and dwarve alliance will prevail and gain access to the trinkets, or maybe the Ul'tanneks will get them for their own. Maybe the trinkets are very powerful and provide crazy bonuses for the lucky groups who gain them, or maybe they will ressurect the Red Pharoah's pyramid, or maybe they will summon a ridiculous developer controlled world spawn. The possibilities are ENDLESS, and everything that happens will be determined by the players themselves.
That is some cool stuff, but honestly you are describing live events. Something that has been going on in mmos for 10 years now. Cool that you can affect the history of the game, but that is not the same thing as what phasing can offer a game. I suspect the results of players actions in the darkfall lore system need to be patched in during game downtime. The results of your events are not even know yet?
In phasing the players actions can affect the game world in real time. The players actions have a reaction that can be witnessed first hand right after the event takes place. Change the geography of the location you are in. The players could do something and watch the face of a mountain crash down to expose a long lost castle. Things of that nature.
Imagine how it could be used on something as simple as the migration of local creatures form one area to another. Say some sheep move into your village and suddenly start eating all the grass and now your once lush village is covered in dry patches and sand.
Imagine you run to town to sell your loot or whatever. On your way back to the area you are exploring you start to notice all the tree that were previously lush and green are now tainted and starting to blacken. Now you have a mystery to solve as some dynamic even is unfolding in the gameworld while you are in it.
I'm not talking about instances or live events with statically places npcs/gm controlled spawns where the results have to be patched in during downtimes. I am talking about technology that has an immediate impact on the game world in real time. Be it for one person or the entire server, that is what phasing can do.
I'm still curious as to how Blizzard plans to price this xpac for new players or for those who got rid of their account. If they are too greedy it may backfire.
I don't think blizzard really needs to price anything for people who "got rid of their accounts", but I do agree with you about new players.
They should make an all inclusive package, but if there is no need to I understand why they won't. If your company filled 3 of the top ten best selling products in your industry year after year, would you merge them all into 1 package and lose 1-2 of those spots?
Hopefully there is some stiff competition to force blizzard to really compete for subscribers.
Players that may want to come back after a long hiatus? Blizzard counts on this players to buy xpac and build their subs back up. Plenty of ex-WoW players either sold or gave away the accounts, were hacked & just gave up dealing with Blizzard horrific customer service on it or banned for whatever random reason (some justified, some not). And then there are the new players.
They have a battlechest now which is Vanilla + TBC for 40 bucks and then another $40. And I am not even sure if that comes with a free month. I think the overall cost already is a rip-off.
I was suggesting that Blizzard doesn't need to go out of its way to compensate people who "got rid of their accounts", because those are people who have violated the EULA. Regardless of your complaints about how bad blizzard is, people who break the eula don't really deserve a helping hand to get back into the game.
As for former players and new players, yes I think it is a great idea. I still think blizzard is going to keep it as 3 separate options, because demand for the product hasn't declined.
The original game for around $10 bucks.
A new battlechest with Original, Burning crusade and WOTLK
Cataclysm.
Once something comes along to challenge wow, we might see an all inclusive game, but I don't think that will happen until then. Hopefully I am wrong though.
I'm still curious as to how Blizzard plans to price this xpac for new players or for those who got rid of their account. If they are too greedy it may backfire.
I don't think blizzard really needs to price anything for people who "got rid of their accounts", but I do agree with you about new players.
They should make an all inclusive package, but if there is no need to I understand why they won't. If your company filled 3 of the top ten best selling products in your industry year after year, would you merge them all into 1 package and lose 1-2 of those spots?
Hopefully there is some stiff competition to force blizzard to really compete for subscribers.
Players that may want to come back after a long hiatus? Blizzard counts on this players to buy xpac and build their subs back up. Plenty of ex-WoW players either sold or gave away the accounts, were hacked & just gave up dealing with Blizzard horrific customer service on it or banned for whatever random reason (some justified, some not). And then there are the new players.
They have a battlechest now which is Vanilla + TBC for 40 bucks and then another $40. And I am not even sure if that comes with a free month. I think the overall cost already is a rip-off.
You are talking about several things and making it unnecessarily confusing.
(1) type A customers, active subs
(2) type B customers, inactive subs, renewable anytime
(3) type C customers, inactive subs, forgotten or lost account or hacked but not banned, some of them do not know they already lost the account
(4) type D customers, permanently banned accounts
(5) type E customers, not yet played WoW ever, if type D wants to play again, they becomes type E
In terms of sub base expansion, all except D can contribute. In terms of box sale, type E will contribute revenue for old boxes, all (except D) will contribute to xpac. Just that simple.
Some remarks
(A) first, blizz has just about the best customer services, recovery of lost or hacked accounts are fast and yet rigorously checked.
(B) battlechest comes with a free month
(C) you think its a rip-off, obviously many think otherwise, the battlechest are still selling like hot cakes, topping sales charts
WoW is paid for, the expac's are paid for, probably Blizzards whole infastructure is 100% debt clear with capitol in the bank doing nothing. (just guessing here).
they could piss off Oprah, run through the streets naked, fart in public, pick their noses OR thier asses,
and I would have no doubt that Cata would still be successful
why?
because when you make enough clear cash every month to support (hell even buy) a small country, you can afford to fail whenever you damn well please.
But this is Bliz.. and Cata will be a succes based on solid practice.
d
"He who reigns within himself and rules his passions, desires, and fears is more than a king."
"Where there is much desire to learn, there of necessity will be much argruing, much writting, many opinions; for opinions in good men is but knowledge in the making."
What do you think, will wow cata be a dissapiontment, or will it make total domination on the mmo market ? Cataclysm is blizzards most expensive expansion pack they ever worked with, and it seems difrent a new then BC and WOTLK. I must admist i cant wait for it, and i think it will make total domination, and claim more of the mmo market. What do you think ?
Right now I'm not sure whether Cataclysm will revive WoW or just be more of the SSDD.
The biggest thing I am worried about is how they said they are dumping the majority of stats and are just going to keep str, agi, stam, int, spir, armor and damage (for weapons). No more hit rating, spellpower, crit rating, attack power, haste, or armor penetration. I do think that ArP should go, but otherwise wiping most stats from the game can't be a good thing IMO.
Blowing up the world is mainly to just let people use their flyers in old Azeroth. I know a lot of people whined that they could use their nifty epic flyer to get around Outland and Northrend but then had to settle for their 150 ground mount to run to/from the auction house.
This will be one of the worst expansions in history. Keep in mind most of the bad changes from WOTLK were not made by any of the original Devs, no Chilton and Street are in charge now, so the next one will be the embodiment of their minds.... Jesus. So their doing away with more stats and making the game even more armor based meaning the dps and hp will scale about Three times what is is now, but you will do so much damage fights will be ... well fights will be stupid. They are taking a huge crap on the lore, Tauren Paladins is just fKin Stupid, and so is Worgen.. alliance Worgen, Gnome Shadow priests, Undead hunters the list of stupid idiot crap goes on and on, Its like this game was created by Retarded ADD kids. Any old fed up players will leave because of this. No one who liked Vanilla will hang around for this garbage. Even People that started from BC will get sick of this thing. This expansion is For Kids and By Kids.
I don't understand this. Most of your points highlight the fact they are making it more like Vanilla WoW, which is what brought so many people to their game. (Well, that and the fact its Blizzard + Warcraft)
I have faith that the highly experienced, educated, and trained people at Blizzard will make the right decisions for their game.
Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty
Comments
Well, "phasing" feels artificial and it separates players who normally would be standing upon the same ground right next to each other. It is a contrived and false game mechanic, and therefore a hit upon immersion. Now, to WOW designers, "phasing" is a method to vary the same square footage without expanding a zone, but it is still another form of instancing.
I was disappointed with WOLTK too; I felt it was more an expansion of a storyline than the game world. I prefer dynamic and spontaneous play to forced, scripted, storyline, on-rails gameplay.
I agree that "people who enjoy WOW will enjoy Cataclysm."
Well, although I technically see your point, i personally like phasing, because I believe it gets closer to immersion in the world. People have for years asked repeatedly for 'their actions to make a difference in the world" - phasing is a step closer in that direction.
After vanquishing a foe's camp - I forever change that zone. For instance, you vanquish an area of Scourge forces through a series of quests and the Ebon Blade moves in - you have a new flight path, vendors, and repair area (and runeforge) at your disposal.
It isn't like when ten minutes after you finish your quest line, the bad guys pop back up - ruining your immersion by making you realize your efforts did'nt really do a thing. With phasing your actions do matter.
And practically speaking, the adventurers who are most likely going to have common goals with you will also be there - so although technically those who haven't done the quest line aren't in the same area as you - chances are you wouldn't have much cause for interaction. Exceptions exist of course, but to me weighing the cost of losing some folks who I would likely be on a different track from vs. having my actions affect the game world.....I would chose the latter. To not phase means to keep things as most mmo's with static respawns where your actions are irrelevent to the game world. The very definition of 'immersion breaking'.
Under the current techonology, if you want your actions to matter in the world....i.e. the first person who completes the quest line changes the zone for everyone would be very difficult to manage. How would you be able to ever have enough content for each player if each quest can only be completed once, and after, the game world is changed forever? This is the paradox of 'having your actions matter'- you either have repeatable quest lines with phasing or with static respawns. Static respawns has been the standard since the first mmos - let's be open to new ideas.
if blizzard take all that time and doesnt up the look of vanilla wow(and im not talking of water ,since i couldnt care less about water,theyll have failed big time because player expect a rise in quality with such a major endeavor.dx11 maybe even microsoft donnybrooks if blizzard isnt too busy sipping coffee.
Uhhh, Dungeons & Dragons was a movie well before WOW. LOTR, too, for that matter.
The Warcraft movie is the first movie based around a 3D world we ALL walked in and adventured in.
I think that gives an extra dimension and challenge to the whole enterprise.
Lara Craft movie was based on a franchise as was D&D, Lotro etc...
SR said he wanted to recreate some of the landscapes of the game as faithful as possible. A challenge for sure. BTW he mentioned this very recently, so the theory the film is based on Warcraft and not World of Warcraft (landscapes wise) is already outdated.
Like I said earlier, with CATA in 2010 and the motion picture in 2011, I don't see any other game even remotely challeging the success of WoW.
And it was SR who dumped the Spiderman4 project btw, because he didn't like the script at all. Sony wanted to give extra writers to change the existent script but SR refused.
I have my own theory of course (in view of what SR recently said above): he is IN the game and wants to make that Warcraft movie !
)) just like the guys at Blizzard dumped their other projects just to make WOW back in 2001.
What else could be the reason
)))
"There is something about ...WOW"
How about:
-Alone in the Dark
-BloodRayne and BloodRayne II
-Postal
-Far Cry
-Hitman
Not from mmos, but from games as is warcraft movie.
New expansion, let's see:
As pointed by SaintViktor, same sauce...
Housing would be nice, but it isn't a must for mmos. Wow only really lends itself towards instanced housing and I feel that instanced housing detracts from the community aspect by removing players from communal areas and hiding them in personal instanced areas and wow doesn't need extra strain on the instance servers. Housing would be sweet if done right, but I don't think wow supports the right type of housing for mmos.
Dyes are just fluff and personally I could do without ever seeing another pink gnome or some rainbow colored warrior ever again. If done right maybe, but otherwise it is hardly some benchmark feature to judge by.
I like the concept of social clothing. Even though it is fluff I think it would add to the game, but still not a some major feature that is missing.
Wow already has underwater areas and cataclysm has an underwater city to explore; Sunken City of Vashj'ir beneath the sea. . Boat combat is an option I guess and wow has already added mounted, vehicle and to a slight degree air combat, so I guess boat combat could be done. I am not sure why, but I guess it could be done. There is already an encounter in IceCrown Citadel where players are on one ship fighting npcs on another ship with each team boarding the others ships.
Fluff and vanity items are cool, but I am glad that blizzard is focusing on gameplay, new mechanics and not fluff. There is already plenty of vanity items in the game. Not that more wouldn't be better, but everything has limits to what a production schedule will allow to be added.
SaintViktor is right to a degree. The expansion will be lots more of what wow has already delivered with a decent amount of new mixed in. To me, I prefer than to a game that keeps trying to redefine itself with each new expansion as it usually ends up alienating segments of players with each revamp.
Phasing is the future of MMORPG's.
Explanation: take a space SF game: planets will change according to what you or your group of players will do in relation to those planet systems.
Planets could go friendly or hostile in relation to the actions you or your guild would make.
And don't think I am too far fetched here...
Guild leveling will be introduced in Cataclysm, so group content based on guild progress is just another extension down the road to Cataclysm.
----> Always see the wider options and progress with Blizzard.
You have to see phasing within the structure of cross server mechanisms, clustering realm based content in which eventually millions of players will exist, instead of those 4K we know now in single realm based games.
Eventually you will understand.
Phasing is NOT the future of MMOs, or at least I seriously hope not for the sake of this genre. Non-instanced MMO experiences are the future of real MMOs.
Take Darkfall for example, the fact that everyone who logs on logs into the exact same world, and every action that each person makes affects the same exact gameworld that everyone else is playing in.
THAT'S the future of MMOs, and I hope to god more gaming companies have the balls to expand on that.
As for the OP, yes, of course Cataclysm will be a success. Blizzard has tapped into the insanely large casual/carebear crowd of the gaming community and developed a game that caters to that crowd. No matter what they sold, people would return to try the new content and no matter how long they stayed, Blizzard would still make a lot of profit.
Thank god there is a lot of us that can't stand the same type of MMOs anymore that we have been fed for so many years and all the clones that keep being released, and there is an ever growing group of developers that have the balls to take a chance for something innovative, new, and exciting. Darkfall, Eve, soon to be Mortal Online, and hell, even Fallen Earth, have all broken free of the staleness that is the current MMO genre, and continue to breath new fresh air into the market.
Here's to hoping this trend continues into the future so that those of us that are sick of the themepark staleness that diseases this genre can get our much needed fix. I can't wait for what 2010 brings, not only for Darkfall which is the game I currently play, but for the rest of the games coming out as well.
Phasing is the future of MMORPG's.
Explanation: take a space SF game: planets will change according to what you or your group of players will do in relation to those planet systems.
Planets could go friendly or hostile in relation to the actions you or your guild would make.
And don't think I am too far fetched here...
Guild leveling will be introduced in Cataclysm, so group content based on guild progress is just another extension down the road to Cataclysm.
----> Always see the wider options and progress with Blizzard.
You have to see phasing within the structure of cross server mechanisms, clustering realm based content in which eventually millions of players will exist, instead of those 4K we know now in single realm based games.
Eventually you will understand.
Phasing is NOT the future of MMOs, or at least I seriously hope not for the sake of this genre. Non-instanced MMO experiences are the future of real MMOs.
Phasing can be applied to everyone playing the game just as easily as it could be applied to different groups in the same area.
I don't think you are seeing the potential of what can be possible with phasing, but rather judging it by how blizzard has decided to use it.
Instead of making the world look different for each group of people based on their progression through a storyline, imagine that the actions of your group change a portion of the world for everyone playing.
Did you group fail to defend the town from marauding orcs? Well now your town is burned to the ground and the orcs have made it their new home and are building their own defenses that you have to fight against. Then if you take it back, you will need to harvest materials and rebuild the structures.
That is a pretty weak example, but giving developers the ability to dynamically alter the world in response to players actions is pretty cool if you really think about it.
Anything that places players in different "gameworlds", i.e. different phases or different "zones", is a horrible thing to implement in an MMO, in my opinion. This is why I love Darkfall so much, because no matter how many people are online at one time in one area of the map, everyone will be able to interact with everyone else, and any action you make can have an immediate effect on anyone else in your general area.
Plus, with Darkfall's new Dynamic Lore System, which we have yet to really get a good taste of, the developers are going to be able to do exactly what you're saying (i.e. change things in game based off of player decisions and actions), WITHOUT having to utilize phasing. They are going to be able to do it in one huge, non-instanced world.
I just hope more games continue with what Aventurine has accomplished.
I just wanted to repeat that phasing does not have to be implemented in a way that instances players in the real world.
A developer can phase an area of the world (or the entire world) and have it apply to every single player in the game. This allows a very dynamic set of tools for developers. Some developers can use it to instance content and other can use it in a non instanced manner. Good for people who like instances and those that don't. Agree?
I've never heard of what darkfall is doing with its dynamic lore system. Happen to have a link to some information on it? It sounds interesting enough.
Cataclysm will at the very least be moderatly successful.
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
Basically, the developers have implemented tools in the second expansion Conquer the Seas to allow for developer run events that will have an effect not only to the gameworld of Agon itself, but also to the lore and history of the server. What I mean by this, is that players, guilds, alliances, etc. that impact particular events one way or another, will go down in Darkfall's history and become part of the lore. Every event they do can turn out a multitude of ways, all dependent on how the players of the particular server act and what their actions are.
Another great thing is that both "storylines" that are created through this system will be different on the NA-1 and EU-1 servers, meaning that each server can drive the history and lore a different way.
For example, Aventurine did their first test dynamic lore event BEFORE the tools they are now going to be utilizing were implemented, and a video of it can be found here: www.youtube.com/watch
Clues were given on the forums about what was going on, and actual players were eventually needed to be contacted in game to figure out what was going. Hundreds of people showed up, some defending the Ul'tannek transport, others attacking. At some point during the event, part of the defending team backstabbed the other defenders and starting their attack. All hell broke lose and the Ul'tannek's eventually were killed. In this way, each player had an impact on the event, and now future events will develop off of what happened.
The second event, the first one that is going to happen now with their dynamic lore developer tools in place, is about to start, and the information on it can be found here: forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
Basically, the players are going to affect what happens in Agon. With this new event, maybe the human, mirdain, and dwarve alliance will prevail and gain access to the trinkets, or maybe the Ul'tanneks will get them for their own. Maybe the trinkets are very powerful and provide crazy bonuses for the lucky groups who gain them, or maybe they will ressurect the Red Pharoah's pyramid, or maybe they will summon a ridiculous developer controlled world spawn. The possibilities are ENDLESS, and everything that happens will be determined by the players themselves.
Correction, you assume the 200 logged in posters over here represent anything other than 0.000001% of the players.
2008: 828 million revenu dollars in the first 9 months.
2009: 939 million revenu dollars in the first 9 months.
Since 2009 didn't even see a WOW expansion and ... China was off line half of the time ... your words are in touch with mmorpg.com but obviously not with reality...
Hmm, wonder why you are taking to quoting obscure financials (with no lniks) and not quoting recent subscription numbers.
Oh yeah, that's right, Blizzard stopped publishing them. Wonder why? Doesn't take a rocket scientist (or MMORPG.com poster) to come up with a pretty good guess.
One number we'll never really know (but I'm sure is quite substantial by now) is how many people played WOW at one time, and have walked away from it for good. (its much greater than you would ever acknowledge I'm sure)
As I said, Cata will be a big financial success (as always) but will leave people more dissatisfied and looking for something more.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm still curious as to how Blizzard plans to price this xpac for new players or for those who got rid of their account. If they are too greedy it may backfire.
Playing: EvE, Warhammer free unlimited trial, Allods Online
Played: Anarchy Online, WoW, Warhammer, AoC, Ryzom. Aion
Strongly Recommend: Ryzom, EvE, Allods Online
I'm sure they will have some sort of packaged deals for new players. Otherwise paying over $100 for all of that is a mighty steep price.
I don't think blizzard really needs to price anything for people who "got rid of their accounts", but I do agree with you about new players.
They should make an all inclusive package, but if there is no need to I understand why they won't. If your company filled 3 of the top ten best selling products in your industry year after year, would you merge them all into 1 package and lose 1-2 of those spots?
Hopefully there is some stiff competition to force blizzard to really compete for subscribers.
I don't think blizzard really needs to price anything for people who "got rid of their accounts", but I do agree with you about new players.
They should make an all inclusive package, but if there is no need to I understand why they won't. If your company filled 3 of the top ten best selling products in your industry year after year, would you merge them all into 1 package and lose 1-2 of those spots?
Hopefully there is some stiff competition to force blizzard to really compete for subscribers.
They once have a battlechest box. They might print another chest with all but cata.
Basically, the developers have implemented tools in the second expansion Conquer the Seas to allow for developer run events that will have an effect not only to the gameworld of Agon itself, but also to the lore and history of the server. What I mean by this, is that players, guilds, alliances, etc. that impact particular events one way or another, will go down in Darkfall's history and become part of the lore. Every event they do can turn out a multitude of ways, all dependent on how the players of the particular server act and what their actions are.
Another great thing is that both "storylines" that are created through this system will be different on the NA-1 and EU-1 servers, meaning that each server can drive the history and lore a different way.
For example, Aventurine did their first test dynamic lore event BEFORE the tools they are now going to be utilizing were implemented, and a video of it can be found here: www.youtube.com/watch
Clues were given on the forums about what was going on, and actual players were eventually needed to be contacted in game to figure out what was going. Hundreds of people showed up, some defending the Ul'tannek transport, others attacking. At some point during the event, part of the defending team backstabbed the other defenders and starting their attack. All hell broke lose and the Ul'tannek's eventually were killed. In this way, each player had an impact on the event, and now future events will develop off of what happened.
The second event, the first one that is going to happen now with their dynamic lore developer tools in place, is about to start, and the information on it can be found here: forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
Basically, the players are going to affect what happens in Agon. With this new event, maybe the human, mirdain, and dwarve alliance will prevail and gain access to the trinkets, or maybe the Ul'tanneks will get them for their own. Maybe the trinkets are very powerful and provide crazy bonuses for the lucky groups who gain them, or maybe they will ressurect the Red Pharoah's pyramid, or maybe they will summon a ridiculous developer controlled world spawn. The possibilities are ENDLESS, and everything that happens will be determined by the players themselves.
Sounds like an extension of what Turbine was doing with AC1 over 10 years ago.
Also, yeah, we get it, you love Darkfall and hate instancing but do you need to repeatedly post in the WoW forum about it?
Basically, the developers have implemented tools in the second expansion Conquer the Seas to allow for developer run events that will have an effect not only to the gameworld of Agon itself, but also to the lore and history of the server. What I mean by this, is that players, guilds, alliances, etc. that impact particular events one way or another, will go down in Darkfall's history and become part of the lore. Every event they do can turn out a multitude of ways, all dependent on how the players of the particular server act and what their actions are.
Another great thing is that both "storylines" that are created through this system will be different on the NA-1 and EU-1 servers, meaning that each server can drive the history and lore a different way.
For example, Aventurine did their first test dynamic lore event BEFORE the tools they are now going to be utilizing were implemented, and a video of it can be found here: www.youtube.com/watch
Clues were given on the forums about what was going on, and actual players were eventually needed to be contacted in game to figure out what was going. Hundreds of people showed up, some defending the Ul'tannek transport, others attacking. At some point during the event, part of the defending team backstabbed the other defenders and starting their attack. All hell broke lose and the Ul'tannek's eventually were killed. In this way, each player had an impact on the event, and now future events will develop off of what happened.
The second event, the first one that is going to happen now with their dynamic lore developer tools in place, is about to start, and the information on it can be found here: forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
Basically, the players are going to affect what happens in Agon. With this new event, maybe the human, mirdain, and dwarve alliance will prevail and gain access to the trinkets, or maybe the Ul'tanneks will get them for their own. Maybe the trinkets are very powerful and provide crazy bonuses for the lucky groups who gain them, or maybe they will ressurect the Red Pharoah's pyramid, or maybe they will summon a ridiculous developer controlled world spawn. The possibilities are ENDLESS, and everything that happens will be determined by the players themselves.
That is some cool stuff, but honestly you are describing live events. Something that has been going on in mmos for 10 years now. Cool that you can affect the history of the game, but that is not the same thing as what phasing can offer a game. I suspect the results of players actions in the darkfall lore system need to be patched in during game downtime. The results of your events are not even know yet?
In phasing the players actions can affect the game world in real time. The players actions have a reaction that can be witnessed first hand right after the event takes place. Change the geography of the location you are in. The players could do something and watch the face of a mountain crash down to expose a long lost castle. Things of that nature.
Imagine how it could be used on something as simple as the migration of local creatures form one area to another. Say some sheep move into your village and suddenly start eating all the grass and now your once lush village is covered in dry patches and sand.
Imagine you run to town to sell your loot or whatever. On your way back to the area you are exploring you start to notice all the tree that were previously lush and green are now tainted and starting to blacken. Now you have a mystery to solve as some dynamic even is unfolding in the gameworld while you are in it.
I'm not talking about instances or live events with statically places npcs/gm controlled spawns where the results have to be patched in during downtimes. I am talking about technology that has an immediate impact on the game world in real time. Be it for one person or the entire server, that is what phasing can do.
I don't think blizzard really needs to price anything for people who "got rid of their accounts", but I do agree with you about new players.
They should make an all inclusive package, but if there is no need to I understand why they won't. If your company filled 3 of the top ten best selling products in your industry year after year, would you merge them all into 1 package and lose 1-2 of those spots?
Hopefully there is some stiff competition to force blizzard to really compete for subscribers.
Players that may want to come back after a long hiatus? Blizzard counts on this players to buy xpac and build their subs back up. Plenty of ex-WoW players either sold or gave away the accounts, were hacked & just gave up dealing with Blizzard horrific customer service on it or banned for whatever random reason (some justified, some not). And then there are the new players.
They have a battlechest now which is Vanilla + TBC for 40 bucks and then another $40. And I am not even sure if that comes with a free month. I think the overall cost already is a rip-off.
Playing: EvE, Warhammer free unlimited trial, Allods Online
Played: Anarchy Online, WoW, Warhammer, AoC, Ryzom. Aion
Strongly Recommend: Ryzom, EvE, Allods Online
I was suggesting that Blizzard doesn't need to go out of its way to compensate people who "got rid of their accounts", because those are people who have violated the EULA. Regardless of your complaints about how bad blizzard is, people who break the eula don't really deserve a helping hand to get back into the game.
As for former players and new players, yes I think it is a great idea. I still think blizzard is going to keep it as 3 separate options, because demand for the product hasn't declined.
Once something comes along to challenge wow, we might see an all inclusive game, but I don't think that will happen until then. Hopefully I am wrong though.
I don't think blizzard really needs to price anything for people who "got rid of their accounts", but I do agree with you about new players.
They should make an all inclusive package, but if there is no need to I understand why they won't. If your company filled 3 of the top ten best selling products in your industry year after year, would you merge them all into 1 package and lose 1-2 of those spots?
Hopefully there is some stiff competition to force blizzard to really compete for subscribers.
Players that may want to come back after a long hiatus? Blizzard counts on this players to buy xpac and build their subs back up. Plenty of ex-WoW players either sold or gave away the accounts, were hacked & just gave up dealing with Blizzard horrific customer service on it or banned for whatever random reason (some justified, some not). And then there are the new players.
They have a battlechest now which is Vanilla + TBC for 40 bucks and then another $40. And I am not even sure if that comes with a free month. I think the overall cost already is a rip-off.
You are talking about several things and making it unnecessarily confusing.
(1) type A customers, active subs
(2) type B customers, inactive subs, renewable anytime
(3) type C customers, inactive subs, forgotten or lost account or hacked but not banned, some of them do not know they already lost the account
(4) type D customers, permanently banned accounts
(5) type E customers, not yet played WoW ever, if type D wants to play again, they becomes type E
In terms of sub base expansion, all except D can contribute. In terms of box sale, type E will contribute revenue for old boxes, all (except D) will contribute to xpac. Just that simple.
Some remarks
(A) first, blizz has just about the best customer services, recovery of lost or hacked accounts are fast and yet rigorously checked.
(B) battlechest comes with a free month
(C) you think its a rip-off, obviously many think otherwise, the battlechest are still selling like hot cakes, topping sales charts
I chuckle a little over the topic..
WoW is paid for, the expac's are paid for, probably Blizzards whole infastructure is 100% debt clear with capitol in the bank doing nothing. (just guessing here).
they could piss off Oprah, run through the streets naked, fart in public, pick their noses OR thier asses,
and I would have no doubt that Cata would still be successful
why?
because when you make enough clear cash every month to support (hell even buy) a small country, you can afford to fail whenever you damn well please.
But this is Bliz.. and Cata will be a succes based on solid practice.
d
"He who reigns within himself and rules his passions, desires, and fears is more than a king."
"Where there is much desire to learn, there of necessity will be much argruing, much writting, many opinions; for opinions in good men is but knowledge in the making."
John Milton 1608-1674
Right now I'm not sure whether Cataclysm will revive WoW or just be more of the SSDD.
The biggest thing I am worried about is how they said they are dumping the majority of stats and are just going to keep str, agi, stam, int, spir, armor and damage (for weapons). No more hit rating, spellpower, crit rating, attack power, haste, or armor penetration. I do think that ArP should go, but otherwise wiping most stats from the game can't be a good thing IMO.
Blowing up the world is mainly to just let people use their flyers in old Azeroth. I know a lot of people whined that they could use their nifty epic flyer to get around Outland and Northrend but then had to settle for their 150 ground mount to run to/from the auction house.
I don't understand this. Most of your points highlight the fact they are making it more like Vanilla WoW, which is what brought so many people to their game. (Well, that and the fact its Blizzard + Warcraft)
I have faith that the highly experienced, educated, and trained people at Blizzard will make the right decisions for their game.
Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty