You understand that you didn't actually buy the game you PRE-ORDERED the game , A Pre Order means that you will get the game WHEN IT RELEASES...
And with this PRE-ORDER came a perk to log in the the official beta before release..And my guess is that you can actually log in to the beta ??
And ofcourse also your box and all the items you ordered, but these items are practically useless, unless the game is released, I do not think you would be more happy if you had actually gotten your "loot bag" in September as they first promised..
A Pre Order, Is a Pre Order folks, It's a Pre Purchase of a product not yet released..I guess you won't tell this to the bank when you claim your refund..
/Junker
On their homepage page is a carefully written statement about the above, that you support them with your money by pre ordering and that you should CAREFULLY consider the purchase before you actually do it..It can't be written better than that..
Umm this is all your fault!You should know that estimated release dates mean nothing.The game got pushed back so why the hell would you want a cardboard box and a disc.You cant ask for an refund when you preorder something.
Well, they might have a no refund policy but consumer laws are pretty strict in Sweden, which is where they are operating from, right? I'm pretty certain that any Swedish company that fails delivery by more than like, a week, will have to offer a refund. Maybe someone ought to contact Konsumentverket(dept. of consumer rights) about this.
And ofcourse also your box and all the items you ordered, but these items are practically useless, unless the game is released, I do not think you would be more happy if you had actually gotten your "loot bag" in September as they first promised.. A Pre Order, Is a Pre Order folks, It's a Pre Purchase of a product not yet released..I guess you won't tell this to the bank when you claim your refund..
Are there any other examples of a company shipping a game.. with a box.. DVD... all that jazz... and the game wasn't "gold"? My experience has always been that if a company tells me they plan to ship in month XYZ.. that means the game is out in month XYZ. There may be other examples when companies have shipped games.. in boxes with DVDs and all and it was a beta, but I have never heard of that before.. do you have any other instance where this was done? I don't think that's standard for the industry...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
People ignorantly misread and acted on impulse, instead of being a tad bit frugal with mommies money. So (again) why is this thread still alive? The OP has already illustrated that he is incapable of admitting his mistake and taking responsibility for HIS actions. If you buy something with a "NO REFUND" policy, then understand what that means. End of thread...
Hello. Since you seem to be an expert on the subject can you by any chance reconcile your statement with this reality?
Directive 97/7/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 May 1997 on the Protection of Consumers in respect of Distance Contracts, applies to any consumer distance contract made under the law of an EU-Member State. It provides a number of fundamental legal rights for consumers in order to ensure a high level of consumer protection throughout the EU. The Directive applies to most contracts where a consumer and a supplier running an organised distance-selling scheme do not meet face-to-face at any stage until after the contract has been concluded.
According to the Directive the following consumer rights, among others, need to be respected:
•Provision of comprehensive information before the purchase
•Confirmation of that information in a durable medium (such as written confirmation)
•Consumer's right to cancel the contract within a minimum of 7 working days without giving any reason and without penalty, except the cost of returning the goods (right of withdrawal)
•Where the consumer has cancelled the contract, the right to a refund within 30 days of cancellation
•Delivery of the goods or performance of the service within 30 days of the day after the consumer placed his order
•Protection from unsolicited selling
•Protection from fraudulent use of payment cards
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The main problem here is people read September 1st as the release date and not the first day of Q4, the timefram when they expected to release the game. if everything went perfect then they could have released the game in september, but problems with the early beta caused that to be pushed back to later Q4. Before Q4 was over they released a newsletter telling everyone why the boxes hadn't shipped and why they weren't shipping until later. The fact that they released the statement during Q4 means that it wasn't too late, September 1st was never the release date, just the first day of the quarter that the game was supposed to release in. If they had waited until after Q4 was over then the Op may have a point but they diddn't. Now how do people expect them to ship the boxed version of the game whent he game isn't even out of testing, do you just want an empty box? For people who got the limited editions they have the same scenario, Even if all of the other contents of the box are ready you still have to wait for the game to be done before they can ship it to you. Then there is a digital download available for everyone who bought the boxed versions, so if you end up getting the shipment after the exact release date you can still play the game. So what is the deal with getting the box again? You can still play the game the day it releases and you will get the box.
#1 I don't get the newsletter. Didn't know that was a requirement of cutomers
#2 Are there any other examples of a company shipping a game.. with a box.. DVD... all that jazz... and the game wasn't "gold"?
My experience has always been that if a company tells me they plan to ship in month XYZ.. that means the game is out in month XYZ. There may be other examples when companies have shipped games.. in boxes with DVDs and all and it was a beta, but I have never heard of that before.. has anyone else?
Bottom line is people are bitching about an embossed metal box and a blank dvd when they are already able to use part fo what they bought. Logging into beta and viweing the bugtracker and posting on the beta forums is part of the "account" that they bought so no matter how you look at it they are attempting to return a used product, they were informed that they would be getting the physical part of the product at a later date, which was some time in Q4. During Q4 everyone was informed that the game and thus the box and dvd would be pushed back by a month. People with a limited edition box are even getting 15 days of gametime because they have extra things they have to wait on.
You tell me whenever have you seen a game ship before the release date? And in this case they are already using services provided with the purchase of the game.
The worst thing is that SV wasn't even going to make boxes, but they asked the community about it and everyone talked about how much they wanted boxes. Then SV goes and gets custom made metal embossed boxes made up and commisions action figures and artbooks to be made up at great expense because they werent getting 1million+ made up like other games. Then people buy the boxes that they only made because we asked about it and bitch about it not shipping before release.
Really people should have just bought the digital download if they were going to be so wishy washy.
The game isn't done yet. Why do you want a cardboard box and disc?
It is a metal embossed box and they only made 10k of them. 999 of that 10k are limited editions with a bunch of extra stuff. 1 of those 999 was the first numbered box and comes with even more stuff and a lifetime subscription to MO, it was auctioned off and money was donated to charity.
Right now if they shipped it, there would be a blank dvd.
#1 I don't get the newsletter. Didn't know that was a requirement of cutomers
#2 Are there any other examples of a company shipping a game.. with a box.. DVD... all that jazz... and the game wasn't "gold"? My experience has always been that if a company tells me they plan to ship in month XYZ.. that means the game is out in month XYZ. There may be other examples when companies have shipped games.. in boxes with DVDs and all and it was a beta, but I have never heard of that before.. has anyone else?
Bottom line is people are bitching about an embossed metal box and a blank dvd when they are already able to use part fo what they bought. Logging into beta and viweing the bugtracker and posting on the beta forums is part of the "account" that they bought so no matter how you look at it they are attempting to return a used product, they were informed that they would be getting the physical part of the product at a later date, which was some time in Q4. During Q4 everyone was informed that the game and thus the box and dvd would be pushed back by a month. People with a limited edition box are even getting 15 days of gametime because they have extra things they have to wait on.
You tell me whenever have you seen a game ship before the release date? And in this case they are already using services provided with the purchase of the game.
The worst thing is that SV wasn't even going to make boxes, but they asked the community about it and everyone talked about how much they wanted boxes. Then SV goes and gets custom made metal embossed boxes made up and commisions action figures and artbooks to be made up at great expense because they werent getting 1million+ made up like other games. Then people buy the boxes that they only made because we asked about it and bitch about it not shipping before release.
Really people should have just bought the digital download if they were going to be so wishy washy.
Sooo I take it after all of that.. your answer is that you know of no other instance where a company shipped a game.. box.. dvd and all that.. and the game wasn't gold. OK Thanks!
As for your statement: "You tell me whenever have you seen a game ship before the release date?" That is exactly my point. When someone says they are shipping a game at XYZ.. I assume it's the gold version. I'm glad to see you agree.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Due to some delay on our box printings we have not been able to deliver the boxed versions on expected period, “previously around September”
We are now shipping the “loot bags” to the box company and as soon as they are finished with the steel boxes they will be shipped out worldwide. I must say the loot bags looks really nice
We will give you an update as soon as we have a confirmed date on when the boxes are being shipped from Sweden.
Don't forget you are allways able to download the client via our website.
Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Thank you for your patience.
Latest update: 23/11
As we told you three weeks ago the shipping of the boxes had to be delayed due to logistic problems. As things look now we will have everything together in the first week of December.
The boxes will contain the current client, meaning it will be outdated a bit when you get it. As we announced on the shop website we offer to send you the release client with a separate shipment come release. We will of course honour that agreement. Seeing as the shipment of the boxes is now a lot closer to release than we intended, sending out the release client doesn't make that much sense anymore. What we're going to do is setting up a form on the website shortly before release where you can leave us a note if you want the release client delivered to you anyway.
#1 I don't get the newsletter. Didn't know that was a requirement of cutomers
#2 Are there any other examples of a company shipping a game.. with a box.. DVD... all that jazz... and the game wasn't "gold"? My experience has always been that if a company tells me they plan to ship in month XYZ.. that means the game is out in month XYZ. There may be other examples when companies have shipped games.. in boxes with DVDs and all and it was a beta, but I have never heard of that before.. has anyone else?
Bottom line is people are bitching about an embossed metal box and a blank dvd when they are already able to use part fo what they bought. Logging into beta and viweing the bugtracker and posting on the beta forums is part of the "account" that they bought so no matter how you look at it they are attempting to return a used product, they were informed that they would be getting the physical part of the product at a later date, which was some time in Q4. During Q4 everyone was informed that the game and thus the box and dvd would be pushed back by a month. People with a limited edition box are even getting 15 days of gametime because they have extra things they have to wait on.
You tell me whenever have you seen a game ship before the release date? And in this case they are already using services provided with the purchase of the game.
The worst thing is that SV wasn't even going to make boxes, but they asked the community about it and everyone talked about how much they wanted boxes. Then SV goes and gets custom made metal embossed boxes made up and commisions action figures and artbooks to be made up at great expense because they werent getting 1million+ made up like other games. Then people buy the boxes that they only made because we asked about it and bitch about it not shipping before release.
Really people should have just bought the digital download if they were going to be so wishy washy.
Sooo I take it after all of that.. your answer is that you know of no other instance where a company shipped a game.. box.. dvd and all that.. and the game wasn't gold. OK Thanks!
As for your statement: "You tell me whenever have you seen a game ship before the release date?" That is exactly my point. When someone says they are shipping a game at XYZ.. I assume it's the gold version. I'm glad to see you agree.
XYZ isn't an exact date it's a timeframe, the timeframe was Q4.
Sooo I take it after all of that.. your answer is that you know of no other instance where a company shipped a game.. box.. dvd and all that.. and the game wasn't gold. OK Thanks! As for your statement: "You tell me whenever have you seen a game ship before the release date?" That is exactly my point. When someone says they are shipping a game at XYZ.. I assume it's the gold version. I'm glad to see you agree.
XYZ isn't an exact date it's a timeframe, the timeframe was Q4.
Actually they said September... which is a month.
So, I take it you are still trying to think of another instance where a company shipped a game, box, DVD etc.. and the game wasn't gold?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You are acting like you havent been informed on all of this, yet.. http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/25565-update-boxed-versions-shipping.html Dear community. Due to some delay on our box printings we have not been able to deliver the boxed versions on expected period, “previously around September” We are now shipping the “loot bags” to the box company and as soon as they are finished with the steel boxes they will be shipped out worldwide. I must say the loot bags looks really nice
We will give you an update as soon as we have a confirmed date on when the boxes are being shipped from Sweden. Don't forget you are allways able to download the client via our website.
Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Thank you for your patience.
Latest update: 23/11
As we told you three weeks ago the shipping of the boxes had to be delayed due to logistic problems. As things look now we will have everything together in the first week of December.
The boxes will contain the current client, meaning it will be outdated a bit when you get it. As we announced on the shop website we offer to send you the release client with a separate shipment come release. We will of course honour that agreement. Seeing as the shipment of the boxes is now a lot closer to release than we intended, sending out the release client doesn't make that much sense anymore. What we're going to do is setting up a form on the website shortly before release where you can leave us a note if you want the release client delivered to you anyway.
We're sorry that things turned out a bit bumpy.
King Kio.. please read what you typed. Particularly the blue part I highlighted... then check today's date on the calendar. Also.. I have not received one single email update from them.. not one. They never sent that to their customers, they posted a blurb on a forum and we were supposed to go find it...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You are acting like you havent been informed on all of this, yet.. http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/25565-update-boxed-versions-shipping.html Dear community. Due to some delay on our box printings we have not been able to deliver the boxed versions on expected period, “previously around September” We are now shipping the “loot bags” to the box company and as soon as they are finished with the steel boxes they will be shipped out worldwide. I must say the loot bags looks really nice
We will give you an update as soon as we have a confirmed date on when the boxes are being shipped from Sweden. Don't forget you are allways able to download the client via our website.
Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Thank you for your patience.
Latest update: 23/11
As we told you three weeks ago the shipping of the boxes had to be delayed due to logistic problems. As things look now we will have everything together in the first week of December.
The boxes will contain the current client, meaning it will be outdated a bit when you get it. As we announced on the shop website we offer to send you the release client with a separate shipment come release. We will of course honour that agreement. Seeing as the shipment of the boxes is now a lot closer to release than we intended, sending out the release client doesn't make that much sense anymore. What we're going to do is setting up a form on the website shortly before release where you can leave us a note if you want the release client delivered to you anyway.
We're sorry that things turned out a bit bumpy.
King Kio.. please read what you typed. Particularly the blue part I highlighted... then check today's date on the calendar. Also.. I have not received one single email update from them.. not one. They never sent that to their customers, they posted a blurb on a forum and we were supposed to go find it...
/sigh
In order to get mails from SV you have to suscribe to the newsletter -.-
You are acting like you havent been informed on all of this, yet.. http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/25565-update-boxed-versions-shipping.html Dear community. Due to some delay on our box printings we have not been able to deliver the boxed versions on expected period, “previously around September” We are now shipping the “loot bags” to the box company and as soon as they are finished with the steel boxes they will be shipped out worldwide. I must say the loot bags looks really nice
We will give you an update as soon as we have a confirmed date on when the boxes are being shipped from Sweden. Don't forget you are allways able to download the client via our website.
Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Thank you for your patience.
Latest update: 23/11
As we told you three weeks ago the shipping of the boxes had to be delayed due to logistic problems. As things look now we will have everything together in the first week of December.
The boxes will contain the current client, meaning it will be outdated a bit when you get it. As we announced on the shop website we offer to send you the release client with a separate shipment come release. We will of course honour that agreement. Seeing as the shipment of the boxes is now a lot closer to release than we intended, sending out the release client doesn't make that much sense anymore. What we're going to do is setting up a form on the website shortly before release where you can leave us a note if you want the release client delivered to you anyway.
We're sorry that things turned out a bit bumpy.
King Kio.. please read what you typed. Particularly the blue part I highlighted... then check today's date on the calendar. Also.. I have not received one single email update from them.. not one. They never sent that to their customers, they posted a blurb on a forum and we were supposed to go find it...
/sigh
In order to get mails from SV you have to suscribe to the newsletter -.-
LOL.. are you trying to tell me that going in and purchasing the product.. with my email address included (as it's on my receipt) is not enough to get an email on a delayed product? Sorry.. when I bought the game they didn't prompt me to join the newsletter.
You guys are really taking this true-believer stuff too far... talk about a reason to /sigh...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
And ofcourse also your box and all the items you ordered, but these items are practically useless, unless the game is released, I do not think you would be more happy if you had actually gotten your "loot bag" in September as they first promised.. A Pre Order, Is a Pre Order folks, It's a Pre Purchase of a product not yet released..I guess you won't tell this to the bank when you claim your refund..
Are there any other examples of a company shipping a game.. with a box.. DVD... all that jazz... and the game wasn't "gold"? My experience has always been that if a company tells me they plan to ship in month XYZ.. that means the game is out in month XYZ. There may be other examples when companies have shipped games.. in boxes with DVDs and all and it was a beta, but I have never heard of that before.. do you have any other instance where this was done? I don't think that's standard for the industry...
Yes maybe It was this that also lead you to think that the game was "ready" a picture on a box on their webpage...I agree with you upon this that it's not common practice to show off a box and "all that jazz" like Star Vault has done, maybe there is a conspiracy in that fact, you and I will most certainly never find out this..
But I have never seen a press release that sais Star Vault will release Mortal Online in September. They may have had hopes to release it in September but that is another story.. Aslong as you don't see a fully signed press release from any game developer/produceer you should consider any dates from any game you see with a grain of salt. If there is a press release with a set date and usually an article on this site, thats when the game most likely will release, until then all sorts of things can happen..
And again , you PRE-ORDERED the game in Juli..Why did you PRE_ORDER a game 3 months before your eledged release date ?
You pre-ordered so you could get the ability to play on their beta, you didnt like what you saw and now you are trying to convince the comunity that this company is scammers ..When you are the one that put your trust in a date promised on a webpage or a forum..
Just take your money loss and hope that one day you will not regret your purchase, wheather you like it or not you have actually helped them out,as noted on their homepage aswell. Thats more then I would have done myself..I would never have pre-ordered as you did, but you did and now you have to be enough man about it..
But alas, to give out any form of of dates as a company without beiing 100% sure they will release in time is just poor buisness, but as I'm sure you have been around before, you must have seen these actions from other companies before..Every company that I have been buying games from makes this mistake, part from maybe the ones that has learned from this mistake..Maybe they were certain to release at that date, maybe they weren't, you or I will most likely never get that informatioin.
Just take your money loss and hope that one day you will not regret your purchase, wheather you like it or not you have actually helped them out,as noted on their homepage aswell. Thats more then I would have done myself..I would never have pre-ordered as you did, but you did and now you have to be enough man about it..
You are totally wrong on multiple levels. If you read the thread you will find that I did in fact find that what they are doing is wrong and as such have filed a bank claim which is being processed while we speak. Literally dozens of people have PMed me their thanks on these forums and the MOForums. Who knows how many have silently taken action?
A company can not charge you in advance and postpone delivery of the product indefinately and still keep your money. This is true in the US as well as the EU.
BTW again I ask... do you have any example of a company shipping a boxed version of the game.. that wasn't the gold version?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Just take your money loss and hope that one day you will not regret your purchase, wheather you like it or not you have actually helped them out,as noted on their homepage aswell. Thats more then I would have done myself..I would never have pre-ordered as you did, but you did and now you have to be enough man about it..
You are totally wrong on multiple levels. If you read the thread you will find that I did in fact find that what they are doing is wrong and as such have filed a bank claim which is being processed while we speak. Literally dozens of people have PMed me their thanks on these forums and the MOForums. Who knows how many have silently taken action?
A company can not charge you in advance and postpone delivery of the product indefinately and still keep your money. This is true in the US as well as the EU.
BTW again I ask... do you have any example of a company shipping a boxed version of the game.. that wasn't the gold version?
Actually I have an example lol. Mourning shipped rewritable CD's with the beta client on it out to those that had purchased the pre-order. The backlash was funny as hell. Mourning was canceled btw XD.
/sigh Both visiting the forums and suscribing for the newsletter take less time and effort than making this thread...
Ok (self-edited)True-Believer. The very last word from SV was that the boxes would ship out "Directly after Christmas".
It's now January 5th.
Have the boxes shipped? Reading the forums there are multiple requests for updates... no response. People have posted on the forums, sent messages to support.. and even gotten on their IRC channel but No one has gotten an answer. Is there a secret newletter update somewhere that answers the question? if so please point me to it....
/sigh
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
People ignorantly misread and acted on impulse, instead of being a tad bit frugal with mommies money. So (again) why is this thread still alive? The OP has already illustrated that he is incapable of admitting his mistake and taking responsibility for HIS actions. If you buy something with a "NO REFUND" policy, then understand what that means. End of thread...
Hello. Since you seem to be an expert on the subject can you by any chance reconcile your statement with this reality?
Directive 97/7/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 May 1997 on the Protection of Consumers in respect of Distance Contracts, applies to any consumer distance contract made under the law of an EU-Member State. It provides a number of fundamental legal rights for consumers in order to ensure a high level of consumer protection throughout the EU. The Directive applies to most contracts where a consumer and a supplier running an organised distance-selling scheme do not meet face-to-face at any stage until after the contract has been concluded.
According to the Directive the following consumer rights, among others, need to be respected:
•Provision of comprehensive information before the purchase
•Confirmation of that information in a durable medium (such as written confirmation)
•Consumer's right to cancel the contract within a minimum of 7 working days without giving any reason and without penalty, except the cost of returning the goods (right of withdrawal)
•Where the consumer has cancelled the contract, the right to a refund within 30 days of cancellation
•Delivery of the goods or performance of the service within 30 days of the day after the consumer placed his order
•Protection from unsolicited selling
•Protection from fraudulent use of payment cards
Reconciliation is quite simple, really.
First, these legal statues are meant to protect citizens of the EU and have no bearing outside international boundries.
Second, The order of a product is inherently different than a PRE-order of a product. A product in standing that is ordered after the fact of it's release is understood to be a complete product, ready for use. In this industry said product is a pile of data inscribed digitally onto some medium, usually a DvD. Consumers in this instance did NOT order a finished product, instead they secured the order of a product that had yet to be finished. A product that, I would like noted, was subject to terms and conditions of which included the right by the company to push back the release of that product without notice.
Third, All consumers willfully and knowingly entered into well-stated terms and conditions upon their securing of this product. As any legitimate court will tell you, ignorance is NO excuse. This information was not concealed nor posted after the fact.
Fourth. The first two points you have highlighted describe the legal rights consumers have. This being that WITHIN 7 DAYS OF SAID CONSUMERS ORDER, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL THAT ORDER WITHOUT REASON. As such, if said order was filed and completed MORE THAN 7 days from the consumers right to cancel wtihout reason then that right is given up. If the consumer excercises that right then the order is to be refunded within 30 days of notice of cancellation.
Fifth. No specific date for the order was named. In other words. If a pre-order is not to be considered the order then the order is to be considered the date on which the company as affirmed a release. SV never gave any such affirmation instead merely stating a vague period of time which they reserved the right to change should circumstances require.
Sixth. SV is not a magical land where they have artisans, the machinery to imprint blank mediums from their master or to produce the cases or the printing presses necessary to produce and bind the books for the collector's. All of these things were outsourced to company's of which SV has no control over. Considering no promises, legal or otherwise, were made by SV about a release date they cannot be held liable for the actions or inaction of these third-parties.
People ignorantly misread and acted on impulse, instead of being a tad bit frugal with mommies money. So (again) why is this thread still alive? The OP has already illustrated that he is incapable of admitting his mistake and taking responsibility for HIS actions. If you buy something with a "NO REFUND" policy, then understand what that means. End of thread...
Hello. Since you seem to be an expert on the subject can you by any chance reconcile your statement with this reality?
Directive 97/7/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 May 1997 on the Protection of Consumers in respect of Distance Contracts, applies to any consumer distance contract made under the law of an EU-Member State. It provides a number of fundamental legal rights for consumers in order to ensure a high level of consumer protection throughout the EU. The Directive applies to most contracts where a consumer and a supplier running an organised distance-selling scheme do not meet face-to-face at any stage until after the contract has been concluded.
According to the Directive the following consumer rights, among others, need to be respected:
•Provision of comprehensive information before the purchase
•Confirmation of that information in a durable medium (such as written confirmation)
•Consumer's right to cancel the contract within a minimum of 7 working days without giving any reason and without penalty, except the cost of returning the goods (right of withdrawal)
•Where the consumer has cancelled the contract, the right to a refund within 30 days of cancellation
•Delivery of the goods or performance of the service within 30 days of the day after the consumer placed his order
•Protection from unsolicited selling
•Protection from fraudulent use of payment cards
Reconciliation is quite simple, really.
First, these legal statues are meant to protect citizens of the EU and have no bearing outside international boundries.
Second, The order of a product is inherently different than a PRE-order of a product. A product in standing that is ordered after the fact of it's release is understood to be a complete product, ready for use. In this industry said product is a pile of data inscribed digitally onto some medium, usually a DvD. Consumers in this instance did NOT order a finished product, instead they secured the order of a product that had yet to be finished. A product that, I would like noted, was subject to terms and conditions of which included the right by the company to push back the release of that product without notice.
Third, All consumers willfully and knowingly entered into well-stated terms and conditions upon their securing of this product. As any legitimate court will tell you, ignorance is NO excuse. This information was not concealed nor posted after the fact.
Fourth. The first two points you have highlighted describe the legal rights consumers have. This being that WITHIN 7 DAYS OF SAID CONSUMERS ORDER, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL THAT ORDER WITHOUT REASON. As such, if said order was filed and completed MORE THAN 7 days from the consumers right to cancel wtihout reason then that right is given up. If the consumer excercises that right then the order is to be refunded within 30 days of notice of cancellation.
Fifth. No specific date for the order was named. In other words. If a pre-order is not to be considered the order then the order is to be considered the date on which the company as affirmed a release. SV never gave any such affirmation instead merely stating a vague period of time which they reserved the right to change should circumstances require.
Sixth. SV is not a magical land where they have artisans, the machinery to imprint blank mediums from their master or to produce the cases or the printing presses necessary to produce and bind the books for the collector's. All of these things were outsourced to company's of which SV has no control over. Considering no promises, legal or otherwise, were made by SV about a release date they cannot be held liable for the actions or inaction of these third-parties.
I could have saved you a long winded post lol. Heres the problem if SV did not in fact give a date when you would recieve the product then it is not a legally binding contract. Someday is not accepted lol. That would mean they could wait until 2024 to give you anything if they chose to. Consumers are protected from this kind of thing lol.
Either you accept that SV did in deed state the product would be delivered in Sept. which they did state, which would mean that they have broken there end of the contract or you go with the stance that they never stated when they would ship you anything which makes the contract one that was never legally binding to begin with. Either scenario results in the "No refund" null and void lol.
And yes you have 7 days where you do not need a reason to return a product or cancel service lol. But heres the thing, with reason you have a much larger window lol.
It was a good read but all together a pointless post.
Originally posted by Slapshot1188 Originally posted by thark
Just take your money loss and hope that one day you will not regret your purchase, wheather you like it or not you have actually helped them out,as noted on their homepage aswell. Thats more then I would have done myself..I would never have pre-ordered as you did, but you did and now you have to be enough man about it..
You are totally wrong on multiple levels. If you read the thread you will find that I did in fact find that what they are doing is wrong and as such have filed a bank claim which is being processed while we speak. Literally dozens of people have PMed me their thanks on these forums and the MOForums. Who knows how many have silently taken action? A company can not charge you in advance and postpone delivery of the product indefinately and still keep your money. This is true in the US as well as the EU. BTW again I ask... do you have any example of a company shipping a boxed version of the game.. that wasn't the gold version? Read Lord Ixigans answer, he is right..You PRE_ORDERED the product, and all the information was there in text that you did it at your own RISK..
So your legal rights does not aply in this case, as far as my knowledge goes..Aslong as they told you everything you need to know , wich is stated on the Star Vault online store, you are the one that actually made the PRE-ORDER not them, It may be shady at best but fully legal as far as I'm concerned..
Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by Lord_Ixigan Originally posted by Slapshot1188 Originally posted by Erowid420 People ignorantly misread and acted on impulse, instead of being a tad bit frugal with mommies money. So (again) why is this thread still alive? The OP has already illustrated that he is incapable of admitting his mistake and taking responsibility for HIS actions. If you buy something with a "NO REFUND" policy, then understand what that means. End of thread...
Hello. Since you seem to be an expert on the subject can you by any chance reconcile your statement with this reality?
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/rights/gen_rights_en.htm#distsell Directive 97/7/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 May 1997 on the Protection of Consumers in respect of Distance Contracts, applies to any consumer distance contract made under the law of an EU-Member State. It provides a number of fundamental legal rights for consumers in order to ensure a high level of consumer protection throughout the EU. The Directive applies to most contracts where a consumer and a supplier running an organised distance-selling scheme do not meet face-to-face at any stage until after the contract has been concluded. According to the Directive the following consumer rights, among others, need to be respected: Provision of comprehensive information before the purchase Confirmation of that information in a durable medium (such as written confirmation) Consumer's right to cancel the contract within a minimum of 7 working days without giving any reason and without penalty, except the cost of returning the goods (right of withdrawal) Where the consumer has cancelled the contract, the right to a refund within 30 days of cancellation Delivery of the goods or performance of the service within 30 days of the day after the consumer placed his order Protection from unsolicited selling Protection from fraudulent use of payment cards
Reconciliation is quite simple, really. First, these legal statues are meant to protect citizens of the EU and have no bearing outside international boundries. Second, The order of a product is inherently different than a PRE-order of a product. A product in standing that is ordered after the fact of it's release is understood to be a complete product, ready for use. In this industry said product is a pile of data inscribed digitally onto some medium, usually a DvD. Consumers in this instance did NOT order a finished product, instead they secured the order of a product that had yet to be finished. A product that, I would like noted, was subject to terms and conditions of which included the right by the company to push back the release of that product without notice. Third, All consumers willfully and knowingly entered into well-stated terms and conditions upon their securing of this product. As any legitimate court will tell you, ignorance is NO excuse. This information was not concealed nor posted after the fact. Fourth. The first two points you have highlighted describe the legal rights consumers have. This being that WITHIN 7 DAYS OF SAID CONSUMERS ORDER, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL THAT ORDER WITHOUT REASON. As such, if said order was filed and completed MORE THAN 7 days from the consumers right to cancel wtihout reason then that right is given up. If the consumer excercises that right then the order is to be refunded within 30 days of notice of cancellation. Fifth. No specific date for the order was named. In other words. If a pre-order is not to be considered the order then the order is to be considered the date on which the company as affirmed a release. SV never gave any such affirmation instead merely stating a vague period of time which they reserved the right to change should circumstances require. Sixth. SV is not a magical land where they have artisans, the machinery to imprint blank mediums from their master or to produce the cases or the printing presses necessary to produce and bind the books for the collector's. All of these things were outsourced to company's of which SV has no control over. Considering no promises, legal or otherwise, were made by SV about a release date they cannot be held liable for the actions or inaction of these third-parties.
I could have saved you a long winded post lol. Heres the problem if SV did not in fact give a date when you would recieve the product then it is not a legally binding contract. Someday is not accepted lol. That would mean they could wait until 2024 to give you anything if they chose to. Consumers are protected from this kind of thing lol.
Either you accept that SV did in deed state the product would be delivered in Sept. which they did state, which would mean that they have broken there end of the contract or you go with the stance that they never stated when they would ship you anything which makes the contract one that was never legally binding to begin with. Either scenario results in the "No refund" null and void lol.
And yes you have 7 days where you do not need a reason to return a product or cancel service lol. But heres the thing, with reason you have a much larger window lol.
It was a good read but all together a pointless post.
ALmost all games today are put up on PRE_ORDER before they even have a release date set in stone, again It's naturally poor buisness but that's the way how it works today unfortunatly..
Reconciliation is quite simple, really. First, these legal statues are meant to protect citizens of the EU and have no bearing outside international boundries. Firstly... many of the people that ordered the game LIVE in the EU. Are you arrogantly assuming that everyone is American? Second, The order of a product is inherently different than a PRE-order of a product. A product in standing that is ordered after the fact of it's release is understood to be a complete product, ready for use. In this industry said product is a pile of data inscribed digitally onto some medium, usually a DvD. Consumers in this instance did NOT order a finished product, instead they secured the order of a product that had yet to be finished. A product that, I would like noted, was subject to terms and conditions of which included the right by the company to push back the release of that product without notice. Second, we according to the receipt ordered a "DVD Box containing the game Mortal Online" which was described by the seller as planned to be shipped in September (or 6-10 weeks from date of order). It is now January. Speaking of the terms and conditions can you show me what I signed? here is a link to the "Terms and Conditions" on their order page (not that having a link on a page means I signed anything). Please show me the text you are referring to as I strangely find it to be missing: https://account.mortalonline.com/public/pdf/terms_conditions.pdf Third, All consumers willfully and knowingly entered into well-stated terms and conditions upon their securing of this product. As any legitimate court will tell you, ignorance is NO excuse. This information was not concealed nor posted after the fact. Thirdly, having a small link on a website that has non-industry standard rules is not "well-stated" and any legitimate court would laugh. As the No Refund policy is also against EU law (as you so kindly highlighted the 7 days rule) it would be doubly laughed at. Fourth. The first two points you have highlighted describe the legal rights consumers have. This being that WITHIN 7 DAYS OF SAID CONSUMERS ORDER, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL THAT ORDER WITHOUT REASON. As such, if said order was filed and completed MORE THAN 7 days from the consumers right to cancel wtihout reason then that right is given up. If the consumer excercises that right then the order is to be refunded within 30 days of notice of cancellation. Fourth, as mentioned above.. you have highlighted a point which proves what I stated. the blanket No-refund policy is invalid and illegal in the EU. I highlighted those lines not my specific instance but to prove that people who are shouting NO REFUND STFU are wrong. Fifth. No specific date for the order was named. In other words. If a pre-order is not to be considered the order then the order is to be considered the date on which the company as affirmed a release. SV never gave any such affirmation instead merely stating a vague period of time which they reserved the right to change should circumstances require. Fifth, September is not really that vague. When ordering and being told it should ship in 1.5 months and the product still hasnt shipped 6 months later I am pretty sure EU folks would have no problem filing under non-delivery Sixth. SV is not a magical land where they have artisans, the machinery to imprint blank mediums from their master or to produce the cases or the printing presses necessary to produce and bind the books for the collector's. All of these things were outsourced to company's of which SV has no control over. Considering no promises, legal or otherwise, were made by SV about a release date they cannot be held liable for the actions or inaction of these third-parties. Sixth -Totally false. Subcontracting is not a loophole. if you sell a product YOU are responsible for it's delivery to the customer. Those are reasons for the delay, but it doesn't excuse them.
See above. You can continue to argue all you want. The fact is that SV agreed to accept Visa as a form of payment. Visa has certain rules. Some of these include non-delivery of products. Since you are so keen on the law I am sure you understand that the contract SV has with Visa cannot be superceeded by a small link on their web page. My claim against them has been preliminarily accepted and I will be happy to provide an update when it is finalized.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Comments
You understand that you didn't actually buy the game you PRE-ORDERED the game , A Pre Order means that you will get the game WHEN IT RELEASES...
And with this PRE-ORDER came a perk to log in the the official beta before release..And my guess is that you can actually log in to the beta ??
And ofcourse also your box and all the items you ordered, but these items are practically useless, unless the game is released, I do not think you would be more happy if you had actually gotten your "loot bag" in September as they first promised..
A Pre Order, Is a Pre Order folks, It's a Pre Purchase of a product not yet released..I guess you won't tell this to the bank when you claim your refund..
/Junker
On their homepage page is a carefully written statement about the above, that you support them with your money by pre ordering and that you should CAREFULLY consider the purchase before you actually do it..It can't be written better than that..
Umm this is all your fault!You should know that estimated release dates mean nothing.The game got pushed back so why the hell would you want a cardboard box and a disc.You cant ask for an refund when you preorder something.
Exactly. If avid about your refund, do the above.
Are there any other examples of a company shipping a game.. with a box.. DVD... all that jazz... and the game wasn't "gold"? My experience has always been that if a company tells me they plan to ship in month XYZ.. that means the game is out in month XYZ. There may be other examples when companies have shipped games.. in boxes with DVDs and all and it was a beta, but I have never heard of that before.. do you have any other instance where this was done? I don't think that's standard for the industry...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
and if my hands are empty come month xyz then the company should have my money back in my hands period
Hello. Since you seem to be an expert on the subject can you by any chance reconcile your statement with this reality?
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/rights/gen_rights_en.htm#distsell
Directive 97/7/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 May 1997 on the Protection of Consumers in respect of Distance Contracts, applies to any consumer distance contract made under the law of an EU-Member State. It provides a number of fundamental legal rights for consumers in order to ensure a high level of consumer protection throughout the EU. The Directive applies to most contracts where a consumer and a supplier running an organised distance-selling scheme do not meet face-to-face at any stage until after the contract has been concluded.
According to the Directive the following consumer rights, among others, need to be respected:
•Provision of comprehensive information before the purchase
•Confirmation of that information in a durable medium (such as written confirmation)
•Consumer's right to cancel the contract within a minimum of 7 working days without giving any reason and without penalty, except the cost of returning the goods (right of withdrawal)
•Where the consumer has cancelled the contract, the right to a refund within 30 days of cancellation
•Delivery of the goods or performance of the service within 30 days of the day after the consumer placed his order
•Protection from unsolicited selling
•Protection from fraudulent use of payment cards
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
#1 I don't get the newsletter. Didn't know that was a requirement of cutomers
#2 Are there any other examples of a company shipping a game.. with a box.. DVD... all that jazz... and the game wasn't "gold"?
My experience has always been that if a company tells me they plan to ship in month XYZ.. that means the game is out in month XYZ. There may be other examples when companies have shipped games.. in boxes with DVDs and all and it was a beta, but I have never heard of that before.. has anyone else?
Bottom line is people are bitching about an embossed metal box and a blank dvd when they are already able to use part fo what they bought. Logging into beta and viweing the bugtracker and posting on the beta forums is part of the "account" that they bought so no matter how you look at it they are attempting to return a used product, they were informed that they would be getting the physical part of the product at a later date, which was some time in Q4. During Q4 everyone was informed that the game and thus the box and dvd would be pushed back by a month. People with a limited edition box are even getting 15 days of gametime because they have extra things they have to wait on.
You tell me whenever have you seen a game ship before the release date? And in this case they are already using services provided with the purchase of the game.
The worst thing is that SV wasn't even going to make boxes, but they asked the community about it and everyone talked about how much they wanted boxes. Then SV goes and gets custom made metal embossed boxes made up and commisions action figures and artbooks to be made up at great expense because they werent getting 1million+ made up like other games. Then people buy the boxes that they only made because we asked about it and bitch about it not shipping before release.
Really people should have just bought the digital download if they were going to be so wishy washy.
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
It is a metal embossed box and they only made 10k of them. 999 of that 10k are limited editions with a bunch of extra stuff. 1 of those 999 was the first numbered box and comes with even more stuff and a lifetime subscription to MO, it was auctioned off and money was donated to charity.
Right now if they shipped it, there would be a blank dvd.
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
Bottom line is people are bitching about an embossed metal box and a blank dvd when they are already able to use part fo what they bought. Logging into beta and viweing the bugtracker and posting on the beta forums is part of the "account" that they bought so no matter how you look at it they are attempting to return a used product, they were informed that they would be getting the physical part of the product at a later date, which was some time in Q4. During Q4 everyone was informed that the game and thus the box and dvd would be pushed back by a month. People with a limited edition box are even getting 15 days of gametime because they have extra things they have to wait on.
You tell me whenever have you seen a game ship before the release date? And in this case they are already using services provided with the purchase of the game.
The worst thing is that SV wasn't even going to make boxes, but they asked the community about it and everyone talked about how much they wanted boxes. Then SV goes and gets custom made metal embossed boxes made up and commisions action figures and artbooks to be made up at great expense because they werent getting 1million+ made up like other games. Then people buy the boxes that they only made because we asked about it and bitch about it not shipping before release.
Really people should have just bought the digital download if they were going to be so wishy washy.
Sooo I take it after all of that.. your answer is that you know of no other instance where a company shipped a game.. box.. dvd and all that.. and the game wasn't gold. OK Thanks!
As for your statement: "You tell me whenever have you seen a game ship before the release date?" That is exactly my point. When someone says they are shipping a game at XYZ.. I assume it's the gold version. I'm glad to see you agree.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You are acting like you havent been informed on all of this, yet..
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/25565-update-boxed-versions-shipping.html
Dear community.
Due to some delay on our box printings we have not been able to deliver the boxed versions on expected period, “previously around September”
We are now shipping the “loot bags” to the box company and as soon as they are finished with the steel boxes they will be shipped out worldwide. I must say the loot bags looks really nice
We will give you an update as soon as we have a confirmed date on when the boxes are being shipped from Sweden.
Don't forget you are allways able to download the client via our website.
Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Thank you for your patience.
Latest update: 23/11
As we told you three weeks ago the shipping of the boxes had to be delayed due to logistic problems. As things look now we will have everything together in the first week of December.
The boxes will contain the current client, meaning it will be outdated a bit when you get it. As we announced on the shop website we offer to send you the release client with a separate shipment come release. We will of course honour that agreement. Seeing as the shipment of the boxes is now a lot closer to release than we intended, sending out the release client doesn't make that much sense anymore. What we're going to do is setting up a form on the website shortly before release where you can leave us a note if you want the release client delivered to you anyway.
We're sorry that things turned out a bit bumpy.
Kio.
Bottom line is people are bitching about an embossed metal box and a blank dvd when they are already able to use part fo what they bought. Logging into beta and viweing the bugtracker and posting on the beta forums is part of the "account" that they bought so no matter how you look at it they are attempting to return a used product, they were informed that they would be getting the physical part of the product at a later date, which was some time in Q4. During Q4 everyone was informed that the game and thus the box and dvd would be pushed back by a month. People with a limited edition box are even getting 15 days of gametime because they have extra things they have to wait on.
You tell me whenever have you seen a game ship before the release date? And in this case they are already using services provided with the purchase of the game.
The worst thing is that SV wasn't even going to make boxes, but they asked the community about it and everyone talked about how much they wanted boxes. Then SV goes and gets custom made metal embossed boxes made up and commisions action figures and artbooks to be made up at great expense because they werent getting 1million+ made up like other games. Then people buy the boxes that they only made because we asked about it and bitch about it not shipping before release.
Really people should have just bought the digital download if they were going to be so wishy washy.
Sooo I take it after all of that.. your answer is that you know of no other instance where a company shipped a game.. box.. dvd and all that.. and the game wasn't gold. OK Thanks!
As for your statement: "You tell me whenever have you seen a game ship before the release date?" That is exactly my point. When someone says they are shipping a game at XYZ.. I assume it's the gold version. I'm glad to see you agree.
XYZ isn't an exact date it's a timeframe, the timeframe was Q4.
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
XYZ isn't an exact date it's a timeframe, the timeframe was Q4.
Actually they said September... which is a month.
So, I take it you are still trying to think of another instance where a company shipped a game, box, DVD etc.. and the game wasn't gold?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
King Kio.. please read what you typed. Particularly the blue part I highlighted... then check today's date on the calendar. Also.. I have not received one single email update from them.. not one. They never sent that to their customers, they posted a blurb on a forum and we were supposed to go find it...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
King Kio.. please read what you typed. Particularly the blue part I highlighted... then check today's date on the calendar. Also.. I have not received one single email update from them.. not one. They never sent that to their customers, they posted a blurb on a forum and we were supposed to go find it...
/sigh
In order to get mails from SV you have to suscribe to the newsletter -.-
King Kio.. please read what you typed. Particularly the blue part I highlighted... then check today's date on the calendar. Also.. I have not received one single email update from them.. not one. They never sent that to their customers, they posted a blurb on a forum and we were supposed to go find it...
/sigh
In order to get mails from SV you have to suscribe to the newsletter -.-
LOL.. are you trying to tell me that going in and purchasing the product.. with my email address included (as it's on my receipt) is not enough to get an email on a delayed product? Sorry.. when I bought the game they didn't prompt me to join the newsletter.
You guys are really taking this true-believer stuff too far... talk about a reason to /sigh...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
But I have never seen a press release that sais Star Vault will release Mortal Online in September. They may have had hopes to release it in September but that is another story..
Aslong as you don't see a fully signed press release from any game developer/produceer you should consider any dates from any game you see with a grain of salt.
If there is a press release with a set date and usually an article on this site, thats when the game most likely will release, until then all sorts of things can happen..
And again , you PRE-ORDERED the game in Juli..Why did you PRE_ORDER a game 3 months before your eledged release date ?
You pre-ordered so you could get the ability to play on their beta, you didnt like what you saw and now you are trying to convince the comunity that this company is scammers ..When you are the one that put your trust in a date promised on a webpage or a forum..
Just take your money loss and hope that one day you will not regret your purchase, wheather you like it or not you have actually helped them out,as noted on their homepage aswell. Thats more then I would have done myself..I would never have pre-ordered as you did, but you did and now you have to be enough man about it..
But alas, to give out any form of of dates as a company without beiing 100% sure they will release in time is just poor buisness, but as I'm sure you have been around before, you must have seen these actions from other companies before..Every company that I have been buying games from makes this mistake, part from maybe the ones that has learned from this mistake..Maybe they were certain to release at that date, maybe they weren't, you or I will most likely never get that informatioin.
/sigh
Both visiting the forums and suscribing for the newsletter take less time and effort than making this thread...
You are totally wrong on multiple levels. If you read the thread you will find that I did in fact find that what they are doing is wrong and as such have filed a bank claim which is being processed while we speak. Literally dozens of people have PMed me their thanks on these forums and the MOForums. Who knows how many have silently taken action?
A company can not charge you in advance and postpone delivery of the product indefinately and still keep your money. This is true in the US as well as the EU.
BTW again I ask... do you have any example of a company shipping a boxed version of the game.. that wasn't the gold version?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You are totally wrong on multiple levels. If you read the thread you will find that I did in fact find that what they are doing is wrong and as such have filed a bank claim which is being processed while we speak. Literally dozens of people have PMed me their thanks on these forums and the MOForums. Who knows how many have silently taken action?
A company can not charge you in advance and postpone delivery of the product indefinately and still keep your money. This is true in the US as well as the EU.
BTW again I ask... do you have any example of a company shipping a boxed version of the game.. that wasn't the gold version?
Actually I have an example lol. Mourning shipped rewritable CD's with the beta client on it out to those that had purchased the pre-order. The backlash was funny as hell. Mourning was canceled btw XD.
Ok (self-edited)True-Believer. The very last word from SV was that the boxes would ship out "Directly after Christmas".
It's now January 5th.
Have the boxes shipped? Reading the forums there are multiple requests for updates... no response. People have posted on the forums, sent messages to support.. and even gotten on their IRC channel but No one has gotten an answer. Is there a secret newletter update somewhere that answers the question? if so please point me to it....
/sigh
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Hello. Since you seem to be an expert on the subject can you by any chance reconcile your statement with this reality?
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/rights/gen_rights_en.htm#distsell
Directive 97/7/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 May 1997 on the Protection of Consumers in respect of Distance Contracts, applies to any consumer distance contract made under the law of an EU-Member State. It provides a number of fundamental legal rights for consumers in order to ensure a high level of consumer protection throughout the EU. The Directive applies to most contracts where a consumer and a supplier running an organised distance-selling scheme do not meet face-to-face at any stage until after the contract has been concluded.
According to the Directive the following consumer rights, among others, need to be respected:
•Provision of comprehensive information before the purchase
•Confirmation of that information in a durable medium (such as written confirmation)
•Consumer's right to cancel the contract within a minimum of 7 working days without giving any reason and without penalty, except the cost of returning the goods (right of withdrawal)
•Where the consumer has cancelled the contract, the right to a refund within 30 days of cancellation
•Delivery of the goods or performance of the service within 30 days of the day after the consumer placed his order
•Protection from unsolicited selling
•Protection from fraudulent use of payment cards
Reconciliation is quite simple, really.
First, these legal statues are meant to protect citizens of the EU and have no bearing outside international boundries.
Second, The order of a product is inherently different than a PRE-order of a product. A product in standing that is ordered after the fact of it's release is understood to be a complete product, ready for use. In this industry said product is a pile of data inscribed digitally onto some medium, usually a DvD. Consumers in this instance did NOT order a finished product, instead they secured the order of a product that had yet to be finished. A product that, I would like noted, was subject to terms and conditions of which included the right by the company to push back the release of that product without notice.
Third, All consumers willfully and knowingly entered into well-stated terms and conditions upon their securing of this product. As any legitimate court will tell you, ignorance is NO excuse. This information was not concealed nor posted after the fact.
Fourth. The first two points you have highlighted describe the legal rights consumers have. This being that WITHIN 7 DAYS OF SAID CONSUMERS ORDER, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL THAT ORDER WITHOUT REASON. As such, if said order was filed and completed MORE THAN 7 days from the consumers right to cancel wtihout reason then that right is given up. If the consumer excercises that right then the order is to be refunded within 30 days of notice of cancellation.
Fifth. No specific date for the order was named. In other words. If a pre-order is not to be considered the order then the order is to be considered the date on which the company as affirmed a release. SV never gave any such affirmation instead merely stating a vague period of time which they reserved the right to change should circumstances require.
Sixth. SV is not a magical land where they have artisans, the machinery to imprint blank mediums from their master or to produce the cases or the printing presses necessary to produce and bind the books for the collector's. All of these things were outsourced to company's of which SV has no control over. Considering no promises, legal or otherwise, were made by SV about a release date they cannot be held liable for the actions or inaction of these third-parties.
Hello. Since you seem to be an expert on the subject can you by any chance reconcile your statement with this reality?
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/rights/gen_rights_en.htm#distsell
Directive 97/7/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 May 1997 on the Protection of Consumers in respect of Distance Contracts, applies to any consumer distance contract made under the law of an EU-Member State. It provides a number of fundamental legal rights for consumers in order to ensure a high level of consumer protection throughout the EU. The Directive applies to most contracts where a consumer and a supplier running an organised distance-selling scheme do not meet face-to-face at any stage until after the contract has been concluded.
According to the Directive the following consumer rights, among others, need to be respected:
•Provision of comprehensive information before the purchase
•Confirmation of that information in a durable medium (such as written confirmation)
•Consumer's right to cancel the contract within a minimum of 7 working days without giving any reason and without penalty, except the cost of returning the goods (right of withdrawal)
•Where the consumer has cancelled the contract, the right to a refund within 30 days of cancellation
•Delivery of the goods or performance of the service within 30 days of the day after the consumer placed his order
•Protection from unsolicited selling
•Protection from fraudulent use of payment cards
Reconciliation is quite simple, really.
First, these legal statues are meant to protect citizens of the EU and have no bearing outside international boundries.
Second, The order of a product is inherently different than a PRE-order of a product. A product in standing that is ordered after the fact of it's release is understood to be a complete product, ready for use. In this industry said product is a pile of data inscribed digitally onto some medium, usually a DvD. Consumers in this instance did NOT order a finished product, instead they secured the order of a product that had yet to be finished. A product that, I would like noted, was subject to terms and conditions of which included the right by the company to push back the release of that product without notice.
Third, All consumers willfully and knowingly entered into well-stated terms and conditions upon their securing of this product. As any legitimate court will tell you, ignorance is NO excuse. This information was not concealed nor posted after the fact.
Fourth. The first two points you have highlighted describe the legal rights consumers have. This being that WITHIN 7 DAYS OF SAID CONSUMERS ORDER, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL THAT ORDER WITHOUT REASON. As such, if said order was filed and completed MORE THAN 7 days from the consumers right to cancel wtihout reason then that right is given up. If the consumer excercises that right then the order is to be refunded within 30 days of notice of cancellation.
Fifth. No specific date for the order was named. In other words. If a pre-order is not to be considered the order then the order is to be considered the date on which the company as affirmed a release. SV never gave any such affirmation instead merely stating a vague period of time which they reserved the right to change should circumstances require.
Sixth. SV is not a magical land where they have artisans, the machinery to imprint blank mediums from their master or to produce the cases or the printing presses necessary to produce and bind the books for the collector's. All of these things were outsourced to company's of which SV has no control over. Considering no promises, legal or otherwise, were made by SV about a release date they cannot be held liable for the actions or inaction of these third-parties.
I could have saved you a long winded post lol. Heres the problem if SV did not in fact give a date when you would recieve the product then it is not a legally binding contract. Someday is not accepted lol. That would mean they could wait until 2024 to give you anything if they chose to. Consumers are protected from this kind of thing lol.
Either you accept that SV did in deed state the product would be delivered in Sept. which they did state, which would mean that they have broken there end of the contract or you go with the stance that they never stated when they would ship you anything which makes the contract one that was never legally binding to begin with. Either scenario results in the "No refund" null and void lol.
And yes you have 7 days where you do not need a reason to return a product or cancel service lol. But heres the thing, with reason you have a much larger window lol.
It was a good read but all together a pointless post.
A company can not charge you in advance and postpone delivery of the product indefinately and still keep your money. This is true in the US as well as the EU.
BTW again I ask... do you have any example of a company shipping a boxed version of the game.. that wasn't the gold version?
Read Lord Ixigans answer, he is right..You PRE_ORDERED the product, and all the information was there in text that you did it at your own RISK..
So your legal rights does not aply in this case, as far as my knowledge goes..Aslong as they told you everything you need to know , wich is stated on the Star Vault online store, you are the one that actually made the PRE-ORDER not them, It may be shady at best but fully legal as far as I'm concerned..
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/rights/gen_rights_en.htm#distsell
Directive 97/7/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20 May 1997 on the Protection of Consumers in respect of Distance Contracts, applies to any consumer distance contract made under the law of an EU-Member State. It provides a number of fundamental legal rights for consumers in order to ensure a high level of consumer protection throughout the EU. The Directive applies to most contracts where a consumer and a supplier running an organised distance-selling scheme do not meet face-to-face at any stage until after the contract has been concluded.
According to the Directive the following consumer rights, among others, need to be respected:
Provision of comprehensive information before the purchase
Confirmation of that information in a durable medium (such as written confirmation)
Consumer's right to cancel the contract within a minimum of 7 working days without giving any reason and without penalty, except the cost of returning the goods (right of withdrawal)
Where the consumer has cancelled the contract, the right to a refund within 30 days of cancellation
Delivery of the goods or performance of the service within 30 days of the day after the consumer placed his order
Protection from unsolicited selling
Protection from fraudulent use of payment cards
Reconciliation is quite simple, really.
First, these legal statues are meant to protect citizens of the EU and have no bearing outside international boundries.
Second, The order of a product is inherently different than a PRE-order of a product. A product in standing that is ordered after the fact of it's release is understood to be a complete product, ready for use. In this industry said product is a pile of data inscribed digitally onto some medium, usually a DvD. Consumers in this instance did NOT order a finished product, instead they secured the order of a product that had yet to be finished. A product that, I would like noted, was subject to terms and conditions of which included the right by the company to push back the release of that product without notice.
Third, All consumers willfully and knowingly entered into well-stated terms and conditions upon their securing of this product. As any legitimate court will tell you, ignorance is NO excuse. This information was not concealed nor posted after the fact.
Fourth. The first two points you have highlighted describe the legal rights consumers have. This being that WITHIN 7 DAYS OF SAID CONSUMERS ORDER, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL THAT ORDER WITHOUT REASON. As such, if said order was filed and completed MORE THAN 7 days from the consumers right to cancel wtihout reason then that right is given up. If the consumer excercises that right then the order is to be refunded within 30 days of notice of cancellation.
Fifth. No specific date for the order was named. In other words. If a pre-order is not to be considered the order then the order is to be considered the date on which the company as affirmed a release. SV never gave any such affirmation instead merely stating a vague period of time which they reserved the right to change should circumstances require.
Sixth. SV is not a magical land where they have artisans, the machinery to imprint blank mediums from their master or to produce the cases or the printing presses necessary to produce and bind the books for the collector's. All of these things were outsourced to company's of which SV has no control over. Considering no promises, legal or otherwise, were made by SV about a release date they cannot be held liable for the actions or inaction of these third-parties.
I could have saved you a long winded post lol. Heres the problem if SV did not in fact give a date when you would recieve the product then it is not a legally binding contract. Someday is not accepted lol. That would mean they could wait until 2024 to give you anything if they chose to. Consumers are protected from this kind of thing lol.
Either you accept that SV did in deed state the product would be delivered in Sept. which they did state, which would mean that they have broken there end of the contract or you go with the stance that they never stated when they would ship you anything which makes the contract one that was never legally binding to begin with. Either scenario results in the "No refund" null and void lol.
And yes you have 7 days where you do not need a reason to return a product or cancel service lol. But heres the thing, with reason you have a much larger window lol.
It was a good read but all together a pointless post.
ALmost all games today are put up on PRE_ORDER before they even have a release date set in stone, again It's naturally poor buisness but that's the way how it works today unfortunatly..
See above. You can continue to argue all you want. The fact is that SV agreed to accept Visa as a form of payment. Visa has certain rules. Some of these include non-delivery of products. Since you are so keen on the law I am sure you understand that the contract SV has with Visa cannot be superceeded by a small link on their web page. My claim against them has been preliminarily accepted and I will be happy to provide an update when it is finalized.
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