Reconciliation is quite simple, really. First, these legal statues are meant to protect citizens of the EU and have no bearing outside international boundries. Firstly... many of the people that ordered the game LIVE in the EU. Are you arrogantly assuming that everyone is American? Second, The order of a product is inherently different than a PRE-order of a product. A product in standing that is ordered after the fact of it's release is understood to be a complete product, ready for use. In this industry said product is a pile of data inscribed digitally onto some medium, usually a DvD. Consumers in this instance did NOT order a finished product, instead they secured the order of a product that had yet to be finished. A product that, I would like noted, was subject to terms and conditions of which included the right by the company to push back the release of that product without notice. Second, we according to the receipt ordered a "DVD Box containing the game Mortal Online" which was described by the seller as planned to be shipped in September (or 6-10 weeks from date of order). It is now January. Speaking of the terms and conditions can you show me what I signed? here is a link to the "Terms and Conditions" on their order page (not that having a link on a page means I signed anything). Please show me the text you are referring to as I strangely find it to be missing: https://account.mortalonline.com/public/pdf/terms_conditions.pdf Third, All consumers willfully and knowingly entered into well-stated terms and conditions upon their securing of this product. As any legitimate court will tell you, ignorance is NO excuse. This information was not concealed nor posted after the fact. Thirdly, having a small link on a website that has non-industry standard rules is not "well-stated" and any legitimate court would laugh. As the No Refund policy is also against EU law (as you so kindly highlighted the 7 days rule) it would be doubly laughed at. Fourth. The first two points you have highlighted describe the legal rights consumers have. This being that WITHIN 7 DAYS OF SAID CONSUMERS ORDER, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL THAT ORDER WITHOUT REASON. As such, if said order was filed and completed MORE THAN 7 days from the consumers right to cancel wtihout reason then that right is given up. If the consumer excercises that right then the order is to be refunded within 30 days of notice of cancellation. Fourth, as mentioned above.. you have highlighted a point which proves what I stated. the blanket No-refund policy is invalid and illegal in the EU. I highlighted those lines not my specific instance but to prove that people who are shouting NO REFUND STFU are wrong. Fifth. No specific date for the order was named. In other words. If a pre-order is not to be considered the order then the order is to be considered the date on which the company as affirmed a release. SV never gave any such affirmation instead merely stating a vague period of time which they reserved the right to change should circumstances require. Fifth, September is not really that vague. When ordering and being told it should ship in 1.5 months and the product still hasnt shipped 6 months later I am pretty sure EU folks would have no problem filing under non-delivery Sixth. SV is not a magical land where they have artisans, the machinery to imprint blank mediums from their master or to produce the cases or the printing presses necessary to produce and bind the books for the collector's. All of these things were outsourced to company's of which SV has no control over. Considering no promises, legal or otherwise, were made by SV about a release date they cannot be held liable for the actions or inaction of these third-parties. Sixth -Totally false. Subcontracting is not a loophole. if you sell a product YOU are responsible for it's delivery to the customer. Those are reasons for the delay, but it doesn't excuse them.
See above. You can continue to argue all you want. The fact is that SV agreed to accept Visa as a form of payment. Visa has certain rules. Some of these include non-delivery of products. Since you are so keen on the law I am sure you understand that the contract SV has with Visa cannot be superceeded by a small link on their web page. My claim against them has been preliminarily accepted and I will be happy to provide an update when it is finalized.
how abotu you just stop the stupid arguemeants. you dont need the boxes until release. but if you dog et an outdated cd they said you have an option to get an updated one at release. whats so important about a damn box anyways
In all your answers in this thread you are carefully ignoring the fact that IT is a pre-order, instead you go on and on about that the boxes was suppose to ship..
Yes, they promised you boxes, and yes that was wrong, as they apparently are not delivered..And maybe you will even get your refund case approved because of these boxes not beiing delivered in time. I highly doubt it since the boxes are only part of what is supposed to be delivered and that is a functioning game..
But you have to ask yourself would you be more saticfied if the boxes actually had shipped since the game actually isn't there yet ?
In all your answers in this thread you are carefully ignoring the fact that IT is a pre-order, instead you go on and on about that the boxes was suppose to ship.. Yes, they promised you boxes, and yes that was wrong, as they apparently are not delivered..And maybe you will even get your refund case approved because of these boxes not beiing delivered in time. I highly doubt it since the boxes are only part of what is supposed to be delivered and that is a functioning game.. But you have to ask yourself would you be more saticfied if the boxes actually had shipped since the game actually isn't there yet ?
In all your answers you ignore the fact that what I am saying is in fact the truth and the process supports me as my card company has reviewed the facts and filed a claim with StarVault. There is my statement, your argument, and reality. Once I receive my money back I'll be happy to update you and we will see who's living in reality and whos just trolling.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
In all your answers in this thread you are carefully ignoring the fact that IT is a pre-order, instead you go on and on about that the boxes was suppose to ship.. Yes, they promised you boxes, and yes that was wrong, as they apparently are not delivered..And maybe you will even get your refund case approved because of these boxes not beiing delivered in time. I highly doubt it since the boxes are only part of what is supposed to be delivered and that is a functioning game.. But you have to ask yourself would you be more saticfied if the boxes actually had shipped since the game actually isn't there yet ?
In all your answers you ignore the fact that what I am saying is in fact the truth and the process supports me as my card company has reviewed the facts and filed a claim with StarVault. There is my statement, your argument, and reality. Once I receive my money back I'll be happy to update you and we will see who's living in reality and whos just trolling.
show them mortal warning posted all over there homepage for buying the game. i bet they wouldnt have. you had to lie to them
In all your answers in this thread you are carefully ignoring the fact that IT is a pre-order, instead you go on and on about that the boxes was suppose to ship.. Yes, they promised you boxes, and yes that was wrong, as they apparently are not delivered..And maybe you will even get your refund case approved because of these boxes not beiing delivered in time. I highly doubt it since the boxes are only part of what is supposed to be delivered and that is a functioning game.. But you have to ask yourself would you be more saticfied if the boxes actually had shipped since the game actually isn't there yet ?
In all your answers you ignore the fact that what I am saying is in fact the truth and the process supports me as my card company has reviewed the facts and filed a claim with StarVault. There is my statement, your argument, and reality. Once I receive my money back I'll be happy to update you and we will see who's living in reality and whos just trolling.
show them mortal warning posted all over there homepage for buying the game. i bet they wouldnt have. you had to lie to them
Lie to them? no.. I simply told them I pre-ordered a "DVD Box comtaining the game Mortal Online" in July and was told they hoped to ship them in Sept. I sent them a copy of my receipt and a copy of all my email attempts to contact StarVault (None of which were ever answered). I send them the info SV posted on their site saying the boxes were delayed until 1st week in Dec. Then I sent them the last update saying they were supposed to have shipped last week.
the only question they had was "When was the last day you were willing to recieve the product so if they ask if they can now send it we can tell them you no longer want the product". I pointed them to my email the week before Christmas where I told them that due to 6+ support requests asking for an update were ignored and a delay of 4 month (and rising) on the product I no longer wanted to receive it and to cancel my order.
Absolutely no lying. Absolute truth. I was also told that since SV accepts Visa they need to abide by those transaction rules. One of those regulates delivery of product from time of charging. As I never received a product I am not looking for a refund but a cancellation of an order that has not been fulfilled. This is what THEY told ME.
Not sure why the background color changed.. will not let me change it back... sorry for that.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I got half way through reading the thread and skipped here to the end as it's clear there is a lot of nonsense and misinformation, so apologise if this has already been stated.
SV’s head office is based in Sweden; it would help to know then, that no company within an EU member state can enforce any policy that is in contravention of European law. nor can any foreign entity trade within the EU in contravention of said laws. Without going into the details of EU law, if what the op has said is correct. SV have broken European trade law; no, if's, ands, or buts’.
Their representation of this products readiness for delivery and their subsequent method of acquiring funds as a result could be conceived as being fraudulent if done with intent. However, regardless of intent is still in contravention of Directive 97/55/EC, as it would be considered an unfair commercial practice. No company within the EU can refuse a request for refund if they have not yet delivered the items paid for (unless they are producing a custom item for an individual client); on realising they could not meet their stated delivery date, they became legally obliged to offer anyone that paid a refund or comparable alternative.
If SV refuse a refund, and you want to take it further you should contact the EU Commission's Consumer Affairs website ec.europa.eu/consumers/index_en.htm, or the EU's ombudsman www.ombudsman.europa.eu/home/en/default.htm, alternatively, the European Commission’s website here ec.europa.eu/contact-points/index.jsp, they can tell you how best to proceed in getting a refund. You may also wish to contact SV directly before doing the above, citing the directive and warning them you will take action to reclaim your payment + any additional costs incurred in doing so, it matters not one iota if you live in the US btw, as current trade agreements over legislation protect you.
As an alternative, you may submit a petition with the European parliament if you want more than a simple refund and wish to take it further in an attempt to see them fined for poor retail practice; you can find information on doing so here www.europarl.europa.eu/parliament/public/staticDisplay.do. However, you need to be aware there are restrictions on petitions submitted by non EU residents, so would advise you try the above first as petitions can prove to be a lengthy process, and would likely be considered excessive given the cost of the item and dismissed, unless you could prove intent to defraud.
Companies get away with this sort of practice as they assume the average consumer is too lazy, or too stupid to seek recompense through legal avenues. In most cases, they are correct and their gamble pays off; but in 95% of cases when you show you are serious and no mug, they fold and refund your money before it ever gets that far. It is up to you to decide if you are yet another sucker, or want to take it further and do something about it. Of course, you could wait until the title is released and hope you get your copy, at least you are now aware you do have that choice, and cannot be stuffed by an amateur company who think they can do as they please...
My Colour Is Vomit green, I puke on the tards with stupid colour sigs. My symbol is ,,!, O ,!,, My enemies are any prat with a colour sig, a meaningless personality test, or a pointless list of games and classes.
I am sure you diddn't tell them that part of the product was an account and that you had been using that account to acess the beta since july...
1. My total play time is around 10 minutes.
2. There was a big old post (one of the few) from a developer stating quite clearly that they weren't selling a beta. Since that's not what I paid for, I still have yet to receive my product. The ball is now in SV's court. If they feel that the beta was their product they are free to claim so to the card company and I will have an even greater field day.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I am sure you diddn't tell them that part of the product was an account and that you had been using that account to acess the beta since july...
Which would only be true if they maintained that they weren't selling beta access.
So either they were selling beta access, and you're right -- or they weren't, and they are in violation of the law. But since they clearly stipulated they weren't selling it, I guess that they are breaking the law.
I am sure you diddn't tell them that part of the product was an account and that you had been using that account to acess the beta since july...
Which would only be true if they maintained that they weren't selling beta access.
So either they were selling beta access, and you're right -- or they weren't, and they are in violation of the law. But since they clearly stipulated they weren't selling it, I guess that they are breaking the law.
I've filed my petition.
Do you mean I can buy a cornflex box, go home open the box, get the free toy and then return the box ( I have not used the cornflex) and claim a refund?
I am sure you diddn't tell them that part of the product was an account and that you had been using that account to acess the beta since july...
Which would only be true if they maintained that they weren't selling beta access.
So either they were selling beta access, and you're right -- or they weren't, and they are in violation of the law. But since they clearly stipulated they weren't selling it, I guess that they are breaking the law.
I've filed my petition.
Do you mean I can buy a cornflex box, go home open the box, get the free toy and then return the box ( I have not used the cornflex) and claim a refund?
No, but if you ordered a cornflakes box, they sent you a free sample of cornflakes in the mail, and never delivered your product, then yes, you're entitled to a refund for waiting a 'reasonable amount of time' for your cornflakes.
I am sure you diddn't tell them that part of the product was an account and that you had been using that account to acess the beta since july...
Which would only be true if they maintained that they weren't selling beta access.
So either they were selling beta access, and you're right -- or they weren't, and they are in violation of the law. But since they clearly stipulated they weren't selling it, I guess that they are breaking the law.
I've filed my petition.
Do you mean I can buy a cornflex box, go home open the box, get the free toy and then return the box ( I have not used the cornflex) and claim a refund?
No, but if you ordered a cornflakes box, they sent you a free sample of cornflakes in the mail, and never delivered your product, then yes, you're entitled to a refund for waiting a 'reasonable amount of time' for your cornflakes.
In order to buy a box of cornflakes, by definition... it would be in a box. Which, as we all know... doesn't exist yet for Mortal Online. And it wouldnt be a toy I received but an unfinished product, maybe just some kernnels of corn. So yeah.. If I went to the store and some guy poured a few kernels of corn in my hand to tide me over until I got my box of cornflakes I might be a bit upset...
Again though.. people should stop with the silly analogies. I'll be happy to let EVERYONE know exactly what SV claims in their response. Either they will agree.. or they won't. If they disagree I will have an even bigger field day sending info where they specifically state I did not buy a beta and my receipt(again) which shows I paid for "Box DVD of Mortal Online game". Everyone can keep playing the True-Believer/Troll game.. or you can live in reality.
Those of us that filed claims will show where reality is shortly.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The probem with your argument is that you are talking about the box when the main product is a game account and digital media, if you have acess to the account part, the main thing from day 1 then claiming that you diddn't recieve your box and thus diddn't recieve your product is lying to your CC company.
@ herc they weren't selling a beta they were selling a package and part of that package, albeit a small part, was beta acess.
Lets say you buy a text book online and part of the book is acess to a limited online resource, then you gain immediate acess to the resource and decide that you don't want the book anymore the company that sold you the book has the right to say that the product is used even thouugh you havent used every part of the package.
It's the same thing, you bought a package and used part of it and now want to return the part that was unused and you have to lie to your cc company to get a full refund. Then what you bought was a pre-order with the understanding that the product that you pre-ordered had no release date and that the timeframe for release coule be pushed back. Really you shouldn't be eligible for a refund of the box until you receive the box and then decide to return it.
The probem with your argument is that you are talking about the box when the main product is a game account and digital media, if you have acess to the account part, the main thing from day 1 then claiming that you diddn't recieve your box and thus diddn't recieve your product is lying to your CC company. @ herc they weren't selling a beta they were selling a package and part of that package, albeit a small part, was beta acess. Lets say you buy a text book online and part of the book is acess to a limited online resource, then you gain immediate acess to the resource and decide that you don't want the book anymore the company that sold you the book has the right to say that the product is used even thouugh you havent used every part of the package. It's the same thing, you bought a package and used part of it and now want to return the part that was unused and you have to lie to your cc company to get a full refund. Then what you bought was a pre-order with the understanding that the product that you pre-ordered had no release date and that the timeframe for release coule be pushed back. Really you shouldn't be eligible for a refund of the box until you receive the box and then decide to return it.
This logic would apply if my purchase was for a "digital only" product.
I paid for actual merchandise. I paid for a loot bag, with the goodies inside. Even if the game client is outdated or whatever -- I wanted them for the nostaligic purposes, and it was irrelevant when they sent it. If they said "we are sending it by XYZ" then I'd be fine with it. But they gave a date of September 1st. They didn't bother to update us on its status until more than a month later. Then another update ANOTHER month later. Then another update ANOTHER month later. That brings us to January, when the boxes were supposed to (yet again) be shipped. And they haven't done any of it yet.
Sorry to say but my patience wears thin, and the simple reality is that it seems as if they had no intention of shipping on time, they wanted the money up front and paid in full so they could get us to come in as "investors", that don't get any return on investment nor do they pay any interest to us. It is shady business dealings, and it's unethical. And yea, I want my money back. I waited long enough.
The probem with your argument is that you are talking about the box when the main product is a game account and digital media, if you have acess to the account part, the main thing from day 1 then claiming that you diddn't recieve your box and thus diddn't recieve your product is lying to your CC company. @ herc they weren't selling a beta they were selling a package and part of that package, albeit a small part, was beta acess. Lets say you buy a text book online and part of the book is acess to a limited online resource, then you gain immediate acess to the resource and decide that you don't want the book anymore the company that sold you the book has the right to say that the product is used even thouugh you havent used every part of the package. It's the same thing, you bought a package and used part of it and now want to return the part that was unused and you have to lie to your cc company to get a full refund. Then what you bought was a pre-order with the understanding that the product that you pre-ordered had no release date and that the timeframe for release coule be pushed back. Really you shouldn't be eligible for a refund of the box until you receive the box and then decide to return it.
This logic would apply if my purchase was for a "digital only" product.
I paid for actual merchandise. I paid for a loot bag, with the goodies inside. Even if the game client is outdated or whatever -- I wanted them for the nostaligic purposes, and it was irrelevant when they sent it. If they said "we are sending it by XYZ" then I'd be fine with it. But they gave a date of September 1st. They didn't bother to update us on its status until more than a month later. Then another update ANOTHER month later. Then another update ANOTHER month later. That brings us to January, when the boxes were supposed to (yet again) be shipped. And they haven't done any of it yet.
Sorry to say but my patience wears thin, and the simple reality is that it seems as if they had no intention of shipping on time, they wanted the money up front and paid in full so they could get us to come in as "investors", that don't get any return on investment nor do they pay any interest to us. It is shady business dealings, and it's unethical. And yea, I want my money back. I waited long enough.
You bought a package, you cant just pick and choose what part of the package your money went towards, you bought the entire thing and have recieved part of it and the part that you haven't recieved there was an understanding that they may have to push the release date back causing you to recieve that part later.
Bottom line don't pre-order something that doesn't have a release date if you aren't patient enough to wait for it. You can speculate whatever you want about the situation but they have been honest with the entire process.
The probem with your argument is that you are talking about the box when the main product is a game account and digital media, if you have acess to the account part, the main thing from day 1 then claiming that you diddn't recieve your box and thus diddn't recieve your product is lying to your CC company.
No.. it's not. I did NOT pay for a beta account or beta game and they in fact have been quite explicit in saying this is true. My receipt is quite precise in what I paid for. It doesn't just say "Mortal Online". It specifically says "DVD Box containing the game Mortal Online" and another line says "One month Mortal Online game time". I have received neither. You can internet lawyer all you want. I live in reality. Your agument seems to say that the "main product" I purchased is a beta account in a beta game.
That's a stunning piece of logic...
If SV wants to contest what I am saying they are welcome to.
As I said.. I'll be happy to post their response when it comes.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The probem with your argument is that you are talking about the box when the main product is a game account and digital media, if you have acess to the account part, the main thing from day 1 then claiming that you diddn't recieve your box and thus diddn't recieve your product is lying to your CC company. @ herc they weren't selling a beta they were selling a package and part of that package, albeit a small part, was beta acess. Lets say you buy a text book online and part of the book is acess to a limited online resource, then you gain immediate acess to the resource and decide that you don't want the book anymore the company that sold you the book has the right to say that the product is used even thouugh you havent used every part of the package. It's the same thing, you bought a package and used part of it and now want to return the part that was unused and you have to lie to your cc company to get a full refund. Then what you bought was a pre-order with the understanding that the product that you pre-ordered had no release date and that the timeframe for release coule be pushed back. Really you shouldn't be eligible for a refund of the box until you receive the box and then decide to return it.
This logic would apply if my purchase was for a "digital only" product.
I paid for actual merchandise. I paid for a loot bag, with the goodies inside. Even if the game client is outdated or whatever -- I wanted them for the nostaligic purposes, and it was irrelevant when they sent it. If they said "we are sending it by XYZ" then I'd be fine with it. But they gave a date of September 1st. They didn't bother to update us on its status until more than a month later. Then another update ANOTHER month later. Then another update ANOTHER month later. That brings us to January, when the boxes were supposed to (yet again) be shipped. And they haven't done any of it yet.
Sorry to say but my patience wears thin, and the simple reality is that it seems as if they had no intention of shipping on time, they wanted the money up front and paid in full so they could get us to come in as "investors", that don't get any return on investment nor do they pay any interest to us. It is shady business dealings, and it's unethical. And yea, I want my money back. I waited long enough.
You bought a package, you cant just pick and choose what part of the package your money went towards, you bought the entire thing and have recieved part of it and the part that you haven't recieved there was an understanding that they may have to push the release date back causing you to recieve that part later.
Bottom line don't pre-order something that doesn't have a release date if you aren't patient enough to wait for it. You can speculate whatever you want about the situation but they have been honest with the entire process.
That's ridiculous. SV said that beta is a 'perk', not something you are paying for. That's what *they* said.
I bought the Loot bag. I bought PHYSICAL ITEMS. I have not received them. And thus, under the EU and US laws, I am entitled to a refund.
That's ridiculous. SV said that beta is a 'perk', not something you are paying for. That's what *they* said.
I bought the Loot bag. I bought PHYSICAL ITEMS. I have not received them. And thus, under the EU and US laws, I am entitled to a refund.
Under EU and US law they are entitled to jail time, injunctions, dissolution of the company and disbersment of their assets. Just wish some lawyer was a MMORPG player that wanted to nail these type of bastages to a tree.
It seems there is still some confusion as to whether we started shipping or not.
We did.
Countries furthest off in relation to Sweden are being shipped first of course in oder to have the product arrive more or less at the same time to most customers.
Keep in mind that customers that bought a Full Loot Bag will receive those later (approx. around late January) due to the problem with the artwork book.
As you know, you are being compensated with additional free game time for that inconvenience.
Cheers,
Maerlyn
Seems boxes were shipped just after christmas as it was promised.
Those bad scammers at SV office actually are not that bad scammers now.
It seems there is still some confusion as to whether we started shipping or not. We did.
Countries furthest off in relation to Sweden are being shipped first of course in oder to have the product arrive more or less at the same time to most customers. Keep in mind that customers that bought a Full Loot Bag will receive those later (approx. around late January) due to the problem with the artwork book.
As you know, you are being compensated with additional free game time for that inconvenience. Cheers,
Maerlyn
Seems boxes were shipped just after christmas as it was promised. Those bad scammers at SV office actually are not that bad scammers now.
Lets see what trolls will come up with next ^^
4 months late? I still would rather have my money back, but at least I'm finally getting a product.
I agree with you Slapshot..I agree with your legal observations, that SV may have to pay your fee back if looking at it at a normal buisness deal..but..
I believe that If and only If the game had been to your liking when you tried the beta , you wouldnt have been here regardless if you got your box or lootbag..
Seeing what "actual" state the game was in made you loose faith, in something that you thought should have been so cool that you actually payed 70 dollars to just get to try it before hand..
I can only guess, but what actually triggered u or anyone else doing this pre-order was the perk to get into beta, ofcourse you paid for the entire game upon release, but most likely you did it because you saw a chance to get into the beta..
This is also why SV stated that it is important to know that the game is NOT ready, and that you do this to help them , and by helping them the game may have been ready for you at september..It wasn't ready in September, and you saw that It had a very long time left before it would be done by entering the beta..So you got cold feet..
If that company actually was trying to scam you or anyone else, why on earth would they give out a perk that let's anyone see that the game has a long way to go still?
I agree with you Slapshot..I agree with your legal observations, that SV may have to pay your fee back if looking at it at a normal buisness deal..but.. I believe that If and only If the game had been to your liking when you tried the beta , you wouldnt have been here regardless if you got your box or lootbag.. Seeing what "actual" state the game was in made you loose faith, in something that you thought should have been so cool that you actually payed 70 dollars to just get to try it before hand.. I can only guess, but what actually triggered u or anyone else doing this pre-order was the perk to get into beta, ofcourse you paid for the entire game upon release, but most likely you did it because you saw a chance to get into the beta.. This is also why SV stated that it is important to know that the game is NOT ready, and that you do this to help them , and by helping them the game may have been ready for you at september..It wasn't ready in September, and you saw that It had a very long time left before it would be done by entering the beta..So you got cold feet.. If that company actually was trying to scam you or anyone else, why on earth would they give out a perk that let's anyone see that the game has a long way to go still?
Actually no.. I hate beta testing. I don't PLAY betas. if I am participating in a beta I don't do it to play but to find bugs... I also find that it ruins a game for me to replay the early levels over and over again.. thus I have only logged in for a few minutes since July. I logged into sausage lake... I logged in and ran around alone for a few minutes... and I logged in and ran to a city last month. Maybe there was a 4th time... but Ive never even fought anyone.. nor seen anyone since sausage lake.
I bought the game with the pre-order as they inferred the demand would outstrip the supply and they even said one of the reason to pre order was to "insure you were playing on day 1". THAT is why I pre-ordered. I ordered the box because I absolutely hate digital downloads. I have a collection of boxes that goes back to the C64 and games like Ultima 2 (nice cloth map), Questron, Archon... To me it's not a stupid empty box but a piece of nostalgia that I keep for all the games I've played.
My main issue with the company is a total lack of response. They ignore 99.9% of the support requests and have never responded to any of my emails. I know they are a small company, but there are minimal expectations which I feel are non-negotiable for a company I am doing business with. Acknowledging me is one of them.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I agree with you Slapshot..I agree with your legal observations, that SV may have to pay your fee back if looking at it at a normal buisness deal..but.. I believe that If and only If the game had been to your liking when you tried the beta , you wouldnt have been here regardless if you got your box or lootbag.. Seeing what "actual" state the game was in made you loose faith, in something that you thought should have been so cool that you actually payed 70 dollars to just get to try it before hand.. I can only guess, but what actually triggered u or anyone else doing this pre-order was the perk to get into beta, ofcourse you paid for the entire game upon release, but most likely you did it because you saw a chance to get into the beta.. This is also why SV stated that it is important to know that the game is NOT ready, and that you do this to help them , and by helping them the game may have been ready for you at september..It wasn't ready in September, and you saw that It had a very long time left before it would be done by entering the beta..So you got cold feet.. If that company actually was trying to scam you or anyone else, why on earth would they give out a perk that let's anyone see that the game has a long way to go still?
Actually no.. I hate beta testing. I don't PLAY betas. if I am participating in a beta I don't do it to play but to find bugs... I also find that it ruins a game for me to replay the early levels over and over again.. thus I have only logged in for a few minutes since July. I logged into sausage lake... I logged in and ran around alone for a few minutes... and I logged in and ran to a city last month. Maybe there was a 4th time... but Ive never even fought anyone.. nor seen anyone since sausage lake.
I bought the game with the pre-order as they inferred the demand would outstrip the supply and they even said one of the reason to pre order was to "insure you were playing on day 1". THAT is why I pre-ordered. I ordered the box because I absolutely hate digital downloads. I have a collection of boxes that goes back to the C64 and games like Ultima 2 (nice cloth map), Questron, Archon... To me it's not a stupid empty box but a piece of nostalgia that I keep for all the games I've played. My main issue with the company is a total lack of response. They ignore 99.9% of the support requests and have never responded to any of my emails. I know they are a small company, but there are minimal expectations which I feel are non-negotiable for a company I am doing business with. Acknowledging me is one of them.
Well then I wish you good luck.. And hopefully you will get your money back..Ohh Btw I have 2 UO cloth maps
SV (or GlobalCollect or MALMO as it appears on my statement) did not contest my claim and as such the full amount has been returned to my charge card. When i have time I will edit out the personal stuff from the correspondence and post. It's a shame they wouldn't have simply responded to my support emails and worked it out directly.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It seems there is still some confusion as to whether we started shipping or not. We did.
Countries furthest off in relation to Sweden are being shipped first of course in oder to have the product arrive more or less at the same time to most customers. Keep in mind that customers that bought a Full Loot Bag will receive those later (approx. around late January) due to the problem with the artwork book.
As you know, you are being compensated with additional free game time for that inconvenience. Cheers,
Maerlyn
Seems boxes were shipped just after christmas as it was promised. Those bad scammers at SV office actually are not that bad scammers now.
Lets see what trolls will come up with next ^^
Show of hands, who has received their boxes???
Anyone???
Didn't think so, probably more fake tracking numbers like they gave to PayPal back in Sept.
If what they say is true then many Americans should get their boxes by tomorrow. It is only 5 days from Eastern Europe to the US by DHL, and Sweden is not a former Communist Bloc Eastern European country, so the boxes should be in our mailboxes within days....we'll see.
Comments
See above. You can continue to argue all you want. The fact is that SV agreed to accept Visa as a form of payment. Visa has certain rules. Some of these include non-delivery of products. Since you are so keen on the law I am sure you understand that the contract SV has with Visa cannot be superceeded by a small link on their web page. My claim against them has been preliminarily accepted and I will be happy to provide an update when it is finalized.
how abotu you just stop the stupid arguemeants. you dont need the boxes until release. but if you dog et an outdated cd they said you have an option to get an updated one at release. whats so important about a damn box anyways
In all your answers in this thread you are carefully ignoring the fact that IT is a pre-order, instead you go on and on about that the boxes was suppose to ship..
Yes, they promised you boxes, and yes that was wrong, as they apparently are not delivered..And maybe you will even get your refund case approved because of these boxes not beiing delivered in time. I highly doubt it since the boxes are only part of what is supposed to be delivered and that is a functioning game..
But you have to ask yourself would you be more saticfied if the boxes actually had shipped since the game actually isn't there yet ?
In all your answers you ignore the fact that what I am saying is in fact the truth and the process supports me as my card company has reviewed the facts and filed a claim with StarVault. There is my statement, your argument, and reality. Once I receive my money back I'll be happy to update you and we will see who's living in reality and whos just trolling.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
In all your answers you ignore the fact that what I am saying is in fact the truth and the process supports me as my card company has reviewed the facts and filed a claim with StarVault. There is my statement, your argument, and reality. Once I receive my money back I'll be happy to update you and we will see who's living in reality and whos just trolling.
show them mortal warning posted all over there homepage for buying the game. i bet they wouldnt have. you had to lie to them
In all your answers you ignore the fact that what I am saying is in fact the truth and the process supports me as my card company has reviewed the facts and filed a claim with StarVault. There is my statement, your argument, and reality. Once I receive my money back I'll be happy to update you and we will see who's living in reality and whos just trolling.
show them mortal warning posted all over there homepage for buying the game. i bet they wouldnt have. you had to lie to them
Lie to them? no.. I simply told them I pre-ordered a "DVD Box comtaining the game Mortal Online" in July and was told they hoped to ship them in Sept. I sent them a copy of my receipt and a copy of all my email attempts to contact StarVault (None of which were ever answered). I send them the info SV posted on their site saying the boxes were delayed until 1st week in Dec. Then I sent them the last update saying they were supposed to have shipped last week.
the only question they had was "When was the last day you were willing to recieve the product so if they ask if they can now send it we can tell them you no longer want the product". I pointed them to my email the week before Christmas where I told them that due to 6+ support requests asking for an update were ignored and a delay of 4 month (and rising) on the product I no longer wanted to receive it and to cancel my order.
Absolutely no lying. Absolute truth. I was also told that since SV accepts Visa they need to abide by those transaction rules. One of those regulates delivery of product from time of charging. As I never received a product I am not looking for a refund but a cancellation of an order that has not been fulfilled. This is what THEY told ME.
Not sure why the background color changed.. will not let me change it back... sorry for that.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I got half way through reading the thread and skipped here to the end as it's clear there is a lot of nonsense and misinformation, so apologise if this has already been stated.
SV’s head office is based in Sweden; it would help to know then, that no company within an EU member state can enforce any policy that is in contravention of European law. nor can any foreign entity trade within the EU in contravention of said laws. Without going into the details of EU law, if what the op has said is correct. SV have broken European trade law; no, if's, ands, or buts’.
Their representation of this products readiness for delivery and their subsequent method of acquiring funds as a result could be conceived as being fraudulent if done with intent. However, regardless of intent is still in contravention of Directive 97/55/EC, as it would be considered an unfair commercial practice. No company within the EU can refuse a request for refund if they have not yet delivered the items paid for (unless they are producing a custom item for an individual client); on realising they could not meet their stated delivery date, they became legally obliged to offer anyone that paid a refund or comparable alternative.
If SV refuse a refund, and you want to take it further you should contact the EU Commission's Consumer Affairs website ec.europa.eu/consumers/index_en.htm, or the EU's ombudsman www.ombudsman.europa.eu/home/en/default.htm, alternatively, the European Commission’s website here ec.europa.eu/contact-points/index.jsp, they can tell you how best to proceed in getting a refund. You may also wish to contact SV directly before doing the above, citing the directive and warning them you will take action to reclaim your payment + any additional costs incurred in doing so, it matters not one iota if you live in the US btw, as current trade agreements over legislation protect you.
As an alternative, you may submit a petition with the European parliament if you want more than a simple refund and wish to take it further in an attempt to see them fined for poor retail practice; you can find information on doing so here www.europarl.europa.eu/parliament/public/staticDisplay.do. However, you need to be aware there are restrictions on petitions submitted by non EU residents, so would advise you try the above first as petitions can prove to be a lengthy process, and would likely be considered excessive given the cost of the item and dismissed, unless you could prove intent to defraud.
Companies get away with this sort of practice as they assume the average consumer is too lazy, or too stupid to seek recompense through legal avenues. In most cases, they are correct and their gamble pays off; but in 95% of cases when you show you are serious and no mug, they fold and refund your money before it ever gets that far. It is up to you to decide if you are yet another sucker, or want to take it further and do something about it. Of course, you could wait until the title is released and hope you get your copy, at least you are now aware you do have that choice, and cannot be stuffed by an amateur company who think they can do as they please...
My Colour Is Vomit green, I puke on the tards with stupid colour sigs. My symbol is ,,!, O ,!,, My enemies are any prat with a colour sig, a meaningless personality test, or a pointless list of games and classes.
Regards Hexcaliber
I am sure you diddn't tell them that part of the product was an account and that you had been using that account to acess the beta since july...
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
1. My total play time is around 10 minutes.
2. There was a big old post (one of the few) from a developer stating quite clearly that they weren't selling a beta. Since that's not what I paid for, I still have yet to receive my product. The ball is now in SV's court. If they feel that the beta was their product they are free to claim so to the card company and I will have an even greater field day.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Which would only be true if they maintained that they weren't selling beta access.
So either they were selling beta access, and you're right -- or they weren't, and they are in violation of the law. But since they clearly stipulated they weren't selling it, I guess that they are breaking the law.
I've filed my petition.
Which would only be true if they maintained that they weren't selling beta access.
So either they were selling beta access, and you're right -- or they weren't, and they are in violation of the law. But since they clearly stipulated they weren't selling it, I guess that they are breaking the law.
I've filed my petition.
Do you mean I can buy a cornflex box, go home open the box, get the free toy and then return the box ( I have not used the cornflex) and claim a refund?
Which would only be true if they maintained that they weren't selling beta access.
So either they were selling beta access, and you're right -- or they weren't, and they are in violation of the law. But since they clearly stipulated they weren't selling it, I guess that they are breaking the law.
I've filed my petition.
Do you mean I can buy a cornflex box, go home open the box, get the free toy and then return the box ( I have not used the cornflex) and claim a refund?
No, but if you ordered a cornflakes box, they sent you a free sample of cornflakes in the mail, and never delivered your product, then yes, you're entitled to a refund for waiting a 'reasonable amount of time' for your cornflakes.
Which would only be true if they maintained that they weren't selling beta access.
So either they were selling beta access, and you're right -- or they weren't, and they are in violation of the law. But since they clearly stipulated they weren't selling it, I guess that they are breaking the law.
I've filed my petition.
Do you mean I can buy a cornflex box, go home open the box, get the free toy and then return the box ( I have not used the cornflex) and claim a refund?
No, but if you ordered a cornflakes box, they sent you a free sample of cornflakes in the mail, and never delivered your product, then yes, you're entitled to a refund for waiting a 'reasonable amount of time' for your cornflakes.
In order to buy a box of cornflakes, by definition... it would be in a box. Which, as we all know... doesn't exist yet for Mortal Online. And it wouldnt be a toy I received but an unfinished product, maybe just some kernnels of corn. So yeah.. If I went to the store and some guy poured a few kernels of corn in my hand to tide me over until I got my box of cornflakes I might be a bit upset...
Again though.. people should stop with the silly analogies. I'll be happy to let EVERYONE know exactly what SV claims in their response. Either they will agree.. or they won't. If they disagree I will have an even bigger field day sending info where they specifically state I did not buy a beta and my receipt(again) which shows I paid for "Box DVD of Mortal Online game". Everyone can keep playing the True-Believer/Troll game.. or you can live in reality.
Those of us that filed claims will show where reality is shortly.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The probem with your argument is that you are talking about the box when the main product is a game account and digital media, if you have acess to the account part, the main thing from day 1 then claiming that you diddn't recieve your box and thus diddn't recieve your product is lying to your CC company.
@ herc they weren't selling a beta they were selling a package and part of that package, albeit a small part, was beta acess.
Lets say you buy a text book online and part of the book is acess to a limited online resource, then you gain immediate acess to the resource and decide that you don't want the book anymore the company that sold you the book has the right to say that the product is used even thouugh you havent used every part of the package.
It's the same thing, you bought a package and used part of it and now want to return the part that was unused and you have to lie to your cc company to get a full refund. Then what you bought was a pre-order with the understanding that the product that you pre-ordered had no release date and that the timeframe for release coule be pushed back. Really you shouldn't be eligible for a refund of the box until you receive the box and then decide to return it.
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
This logic would apply if my purchase was for a "digital only" product.
I paid for actual merchandise. I paid for a loot bag, with the goodies inside. Even if the game client is outdated or whatever -- I wanted them for the nostaligic purposes, and it was irrelevant when they sent it. If they said "we are sending it by XYZ" then I'd be fine with it. But they gave a date of September 1st. They didn't bother to update us on its status until more than a month later. Then another update ANOTHER month later. Then another update ANOTHER month later. That brings us to January, when the boxes were supposed to (yet again) be shipped. And they haven't done any of it yet.
Sorry to say but my patience wears thin, and the simple reality is that it seems as if they had no intention of shipping on time, they wanted the money up front and paid in full so they could get us to come in as "investors", that don't get any return on investment nor do they pay any interest to us. It is shady business dealings, and it's unethical. And yea, I want my money back. I waited long enough.
This logic would apply if my purchase was for a "digital only" product.
I paid for actual merchandise. I paid for a loot bag, with the goodies inside. Even if the game client is outdated or whatever -- I wanted them for the nostaligic purposes, and it was irrelevant when they sent it. If they said "we are sending it by XYZ" then I'd be fine with it. But they gave a date of September 1st. They didn't bother to update us on its status until more than a month later. Then another update ANOTHER month later. Then another update ANOTHER month later. That brings us to January, when the boxes were supposed to (yet again) be shipped. And they haven't done any of it yet.
Sorry to say but my patience wears thin, and the simple reality is that it seems as if they had no intention of shipping on time, they wanted the money up front and paid in full so they could get us to come in as "investors", that don't get any return on investment nor do they pay any interest to us. It is shady business dealings, and it's unethical. And yea, I want my money back. I waited long enough.
You bought a package, you cant just pick and choose what part of the package your money went towards, you bought the entire thing and have recieved part of it and the part that you haven't recieved there was an understanding that they may have to push the release date back causing you to recieve that part later.
Bottom line don't pre-order something that doesn't have a release date if you aren't patient enough to wait for it. You can speculate whatever you want about the situation but they have been honest with the entire process.
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
No.. it's not. I did NOT pay for a beta account or beta game and they in fact have been quite explicit in saying this is true. My receipt is quite precise in what I paid for. It doesn't just say "Mortal Online". It specifically says "DVD Box containing the game Mortal Online" and another line says "One month Mortal Online game time". I have received neither. You can internet lawyer all you want. I live in reality. Your agument seems to say that the "main product" I purchased is a beta account in a beta game.
That's a stunning piece of logic...
If SV wants to contest what I am saying they are welcome to.
As I said.. I'll be happy to post their response when it comes.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This logic would apply if my purchase was for a "digital only" product.
I paid for actual merchandise. I paid for a loot bag, with the goodies inside. Even if the game client is outdated or whatever -- I wanted them for the nostaligic purposes, and it was irrelevant when they sent it. If they said "we are sending it by XYZ" then I'd be fine with it. But they gave a date of September 1st. They didn't bother to update us on its status until more than a month later. Then another update ANOTHER month later. Then another update ANOTHER month later. That brings us to January, when the boxes were supposed to (yet again) be shipped. And they haven't done any of it yet.
Sorry to say but my patience wears thin, and the simple reality is that it seems as if they had no intention of shipping on time, they wanted the money up front and paid in full so they could get us to come in as "investors", that don't get any return on investment nor do they pay any interest to us. It is shady business dealings, and it's unethical. And yea, I want my money back. I waited long enough.
You bought a package, you cant just pick and choose what part of the package your money went towards, you bought the entire thing and have recieved part of it and the part that you haven't recieved there was an understanding that they may have to push the release date back causing you to recieve that part later.
Bottom line don't pre-order something that doesn't have a release date if you aren't patient enough to wait for it. You can speculate whatever you want about the situation but they have been honest with the entire process.
That's ridiculous. SV said that beta is a 'perk', not something you are paying for. That's what *they* said.
I bought the Loot bag. I bought PHYSICAL ITEMS. I have not received them. And thus, under the EU and US laws, I am entitled to a refund.
Under EU and US law they are entitled to jail time, injunctions, dissolution of the company and disbersment of their assets. Just wish some lawyer was a MMORPG player that wanted to nail these type of bastages to a tree.
It seems there is still some confusion as to whether we started shipping or not.
We did.
Countries furthest off in relation to Sweden are being shipped first of course in oder to have the product arrive more or less at the same time to most customers.
Keep in mind that customers that bought a Full Loot Bag will receive those later (approx. around late January) due to the problem with the artwork book.
As you know, you are being compensated with additional free game time for that inconvenience.
Cheers,
Maerlyn
Seems boxes were shipped just after christmas as it was promised.
Those bad scammers at SV office actually are not that bad scammers now.
Lets see what trolls will come up with next ^^
4 months late? I still would rather have my money back, but at least I'm finally getting a product.
I agree with you Slapshot..I agree with your legal observations, that SV may have to pay your fee back if looking at it at a normal buisness deal..but..
I believe that If and only If the game had been to your liking when you tried the beta , you wouldnt have been here regardless if you got your box or lootbag..
Seeing what "actual" state the game was in made you loose faith, in something that you thought should have been so cool that you actually payed 70 dollars to just get to try it before hand..
I can only guess, but what actually triggered u or anyone else doing this pre-order was the perk to get into beta, ofcourse you paid for the entire game upon release, but most likely you did it because you saw a chance to get into the beta..
This is also why SV stated that it is important to know that the game is NOT ready, and that you do this to help them , and by helping them the game may have been ready for you at september..It wasn't ready in September, and you saw that It had a very long time left before it would be done by entering the beta..So you got cold feet..
If that company actually was trying to scam you or anyone else, why on earth would they give out a perk that let's anyone see that the game has a long way to go still?
Actually no.. I hate beta testing. I don't PLAY betas. if I am participating in a beta I don't do it to play but to find bugs... I also find that it ruins a game for me to replay the early levels over and over again.. thus I have only logged in for a few minutes since July. I logged into sausage lake... I logged in and ran around alone for a few minutes... and I logged in and ran to a city last month. Maybe there was a 4th time... but Ive never even fought anyone.. nor seen anyone since sausage lake.
I bought the game with the pre-order as they inferred the demand would outstrip the supply and they even said one of the reason to pre order was to "insure you were playing on day 1". THAT is why I pre-ordered. I ordered the box because I absolutely hate digital downloads. I have a collection of boxes that goes back to the C64 and games like Ultima 2 (nice cloth map), Questron, Archon... To me it's not a stupid empty box but a piece of nostalgia that I keep for all the games I've played.
My main issue with the company is a total lack of response. They ignore 99.9% of the support requests and have never responded to any of my emails. I know they are a small company, but there are minimal expectations which I feel are non-negotiable for a company I am doing business with. Acknowledging me is one of them.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
SV (or GlobalCollect or MALMO as it appears on my statement) did not contest my claim and as such the full amount has been returned to my charge card. When i have time I will edit out the personal stuff from the correspondence and post. It's a shame they wouldn't have simply responded to my support emails and worked it out directly.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Show of hands, who has received their boxes???
Anyone???
Didn't think so, probably more fake tracking numbers like they gave to PayPal back in Sept.
If what they say is true then many Americans should get their boxes by tomorrow. It is only 5 days from Eastern Europe to the US by DHL, and Sweden is not a former Communist Bloc Eastern European country, so the boxes should be in our mailboxes within days....we'll see.