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World of warcraft - game of the decade.
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The answer to your question is simple. This thread, like most of those about WOW on this site, is not about the game itself but an opportunity for some to repeat the same talking points about how WOW is the greatest thing since oxygen and any opinion other than that is just wrong. As for the McDonalds WOW comparison, the fact remains that McDonalds sells a lot of burgers because its cheap and easy. WOW is also easy, and cheap considering the time it takes to reach max level will not cost more than a month sub. Cheap and easy in no way translates to good.
Hmm, seems that most of the posts are about WoW on mmorpg.com, but most are negative. There are just a few positive posters.
I hate WoW for the same reason I hate:
Microsoft
Google
Wal Mart
The United States
McDonalds
And now Apple
Man..thats a bad reason.
The answer to your question is simple. This thread, like most of those about WOW on this site, is not about the game itself but an opportunity for some to repeat the same talking points about how WOW is the greatest thing since oxygen and any opinion other than that is just wrong. As for the McDonalds WOW comparison, the fact remains that McDonalds sells a lot of burgers because its cheap and easy. WOW is also easy, and cheap considering the time it takes to reach max level will not cost more than a month sub. Cheap and easy in no way translates to good.
Cheap, easy, and less popular (every other MMO) also does not translate to good.
It also doesn't automatically mean they all translate to bad, either, no matter how intentionally misleading or intellectually bankrupt using terribly flawed analogies may attempt to make any game look.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
When faced with an issue, you always try to turn the discussion about the poster and not the point.
Ah the white flag of surrender. How sad.
Ive asked this before and you will never answer, so again. Is there any aspect of WOW you do not like?
I have answered your question before. Sorry if you didn't bother reading it.
Now, will talking about my likes/dislikes of wow change the ridiculousness of talking about hamburgers as if it makes a valid point about video games?
Must have missed it. So what was the answer?
Will my answer change the ridiculousness of talking about hamburgers as if it has anything to do with a video game?
Not that I don't think your question itself is ridiculous to begin with.
Perhaps an honest answer to the question would be what is ridiculous.
It is a stupid assumption to think that I would not have any issues with wow, which makes it a totally ridiculous question for you to ask. Just because I find your line of discussion irrelevant doesn't mean I an not objective about wow.
Just like it is ridiculous of you to always try to derail a topic into a discussion about the person posting and not the issues they are posting. It is simply what you always fall back to when your points get shown to be weak and nothing more than hot air.
So here is your answer again, since you always need someone else to do your homework: there are plenty of things about wow I do not like.
Now how about you stop avoiding a question.
Why do you need to derail the discussion to talk about the people who post instead of the issues they post?
How does questioning what I dislike about wow have any relevance on the ridiculous nature of talking about hamburgers and pretending that it is somehow relative to a discussion about video games?
you seriously have a problem understanding analogies... McDonald's was brought up as an analogy.
SO MANY people are basing off the success of WOW(Sub numbers and MOney) as the reason it should be Game of the decade instead of what the actual part of the game deserves it.
SO basically somebody said why bring up money as showing its quality. that does not show iits a quality game...
hence why McD's was brought up... look at mcdonalds... because they sold billions of hamburgers and made billions of dollars...
but what is the quality of mcdonalds? its not good. we all know this. That is why it is brought up... its called analogy... and you are looking into it like its literal. Think outside the box dude. WOW!!!! go get some education if you seriously cant understand what an analogy is.
WOW just because made millions just like McD's does it mean its a quality game... if you broke down the game you would see it falls short on a LOT of things.
as for the other fanboy who keeps spooing out garbage about how no other game has made more money then WOW.
ONE GAME i can mention that is better then WOW if you all want to go the money route.... one example...
MADDEN FOOTBALL... it came out with an upgrade EVERY YEAR since the early 90s this game upgraded its players gameplay and graphics since day 1. It has made way more money then WOW could ever dream of. So get off the high horse of WOW making more money then any other game. its made millions each year since its release since day 1. and most likely continue on for decades to come. hell madden is already on its second decade... WOW hasnt even reached one yet.
I would bet that Madden has not made as much money. sell one madden make about $20-$30 in profit for year...sell one WoW with year sub make about $120-$140 a year and then about $90-$110 a year after. WoW has 4 million subs a year...Madden sells about 4 million games a year. Madden maybe $12 million a year...WoW without box sales $48 million a year.
Edit the number include europe.
I get what you're saying, it's a pretty standard argument, people use it for everything that sells remarkably well... But I think you're ignoring something: WOW is not just succesful on the sales front. It's succesful in a variety of ways.
1. It's a huge critical success. Just check here: www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/worldofwarcraft. Also check the expansions; both expansions get a 90+ in average. That's universal acclaim.
2. It's hugely influential. You can see how it's influenced the genre in the new games. Sure it's a continuation of the standard Diku MUD / Everquest formula, but it brought about a whole new take on it that's built on accessability, usability, utter convenience and polish. This design philosophy got adopted pretty quickly by other developers. Reading interviews with the professionals of the genre, you can see how most have been influenced by the game and how they hold it in high regard. Actually its influence reaches even beyond the MMO genre - I see some WOW influence in the new single player RPGs as well.
3. This is related to sales and subscription numbers, though it represents not just numbers but something more: WOW has become a part of the 2000s' popular culture. It's become a common language via which the MMO gamers can speak (purely because it's so well-known and familiar), and also it's become the game non-gamers think of when they hear the word MMO. What's more is that it has proven to be more than just a hyped up, quickly dying fad: It's held strong for some years now, it has shown it's got staying power.
The combination of the above is no mean feat. The game is a great success in the classic sense of the word. As for "quality"; it's a word people tend to use to their own ends because it takes a lot of time and a wide set of subjective criteria to define it. But just go ask the professionals, the people who make and play and write about games for a living, the people who have a lot of experience with the genre, the people whose lives hang on the true meaning of "quality"... Ask them if they think WOW is a quality game. See what the majority of them have to say about the matter.
Here we go agian..
What about the fact that wow is the most award winning mmo ?
I just had to bring up that awards are a joke, especially the sources of these awards - magazines, websites and G4 tv. Show me an award from the smithsonian (though it might not be far off), and I'll accept it as a trustworthy decision.... because I do believe that a 50 Cent game won an award once on Spike TV's video game awards a few years back. Am I supposed to take their word on other things seriously?
Even nobel prizes are a joke. It's a "peace" prize named after the inventor of dynamite, and was handed out to our President for simply being there.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I hear you have a reputation for WoW loving, but I'll say it anyway. McDonalds clearly has the best food, and Coca Cola clearly has the best soft drink... right?
As has been pointed out several times in this thread:
it's "Game of the Decade". Not "Best Game of the Decade".
"Best" is purely subjective so not worth discussing; but can you pick a game that has had more impact on the gaming world over the past 10 years than WoW has?
I quoted it ... as BEST money maker in 30 years of video game industry. Not one single other game comes close. Even on cross platforms.
So showing the evident factor of a fabulous money maker status it was now elected "Game of the Decade".
In view of the standards set in our society , no other game can claim this status on the basis of the very fundamental thing in our society: economics.
Ok I apologize I read the first post and your post, and commented in haste. Anyway I guess it deserves recognition for that and some other things, although I think (not sure) that mario is still more of a household name than even WoW, but that wasn't created this decade and had a lot more time to become a household name.
I was browsing around the posts since then and I think Ilvaldyr asked something like how do you compare McDonalds and World of Warcraft (it might be a false analogy, but I can compare). Both are successful, and both are cheap, appeal to many demographics, accessible, etc. Both have good business models for being wildly successful.
I don't think most people would consider McDonalds quality food though, and at this point I'm personally not a huge fan of WoW, but it does have polish, quality, and accessibility. Just a matter of taste
--------------------------
Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
Ok I apologize I read the first post and your post, and commented in haste. Anyway I guess it deserves recognition for that and some other things, although I think (not sure) that mario is still more of a household name than even WoW, but that wasn't created this decade and had a lot more time to become a household name.
I was browsing around the posts since then and I think Ilvaldyr asked something like how do you compare McDonalds and World of Warcraft (it might be a false analogy, but I can compare). Both are successful, and both are cheap, appeal to many demographics, accessible, etc. Both have good business models for being wildly successful.
I don't think most people would consider McDonalds quality food though, and at this point I'm personally not a huge fan of WoW, but it does have polish, quality, and accessibility. Just a matter of taste
Ok, last try: MacDonalds quality can ONLY be compared to other fast food chains.
Mac Donalds quality can NOT be compared to books, motion pictures and video games. MD is fast food so it can only compete ...with fast food chains.
It is NOT because some other products are huge economic successes that they can be compared to fast food chains.
You can only compare within each "quality" branche. So the analogy is false.
Just because you choose not to accept the analogy Zorn, doesn't make it any less valid.
It is a valid comparison.
WoW is the MacDonalds of MMO's. Biggest but certainly not the best.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
You WOW guys crack me up. How do you not understand the analogy between McDonalds and WOW? An analogy between two things doesn't require that they are in the same industry you know?
As far as fast food goes McDonalds does it the best. They have the most consistent quality, best staff training, and they keep the place clean as hell. Personally I'm not a huge fan of processed foods, so McDonalds isn't a common choice for me when I get hungry. Neither do I like themepark MMOs. If I was another man, I might be playing WOW right now eating a Big Mac
It's a reasonable analogy, and it's not an insult to WOW. If was to describe WOW to a non-MMO player I would say it was the McDonalds of MMOs. That would help them to understand WOW's success, size, and reliability.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
yep and both McDonalds and WoW have the same end result for some people it becomes unhealthy and the person cries for help to stop.
it seems the WoW haters are at it again.. just because their own particular game is not as successful as WoW its therefore WoW's fault that its doing badly, etc etc. In a way, i guess its true, if only because WoW has set the goalposts so high in the first place, though there are other points to consider, quite a few of the people who play WoW probably wouldnt be playing any other online game anyway, so its a no win situation. Even in the unlikely event of WoW failing, the numbers probably would not transfer to another online game, not even the F2P ones
i thought that the macdonalds analogy was hillarious, if only because its so far out of date, maybe thats why the ones complaining about WoW still dont get it.
Just because you choose not to accept the analogy Zorn, doesn't make it any less valid.
It is a valid comparison.
WoW is the MacDonalds of MMO's. Biggest but certainly not the best.
A pity the economic reality of video games doesn't agree with you. -
More does not mean better no matter how much you want it be that way.
There can be no comparison between books, films, video games and a restaurant.
Seriously dude. Leave the basement and interact with the real world for a bit. Comparisons are drawn all the time between products in different areas in an attempt to bring familiarity to something unfamiliar to others.
And btw: WOW as a video game is much more expensive than 99% of the other video games .... with a 15 dollar monthly subscription tagged to its play...
I really don't have the patience to list them all, but I'll just let you know you're wrong.
Short list.....
LOTRO
Fallen Earth
AoC
WAR
EVE
Darkfall
EQ2
SWG
Shall I go on....nah you get the point. You're wrong.
So it is far from cheap within its branche. It is rather expensive to play compared to other video games really.
Again wrong and I pointed out why above.
Responses in red.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
I don't hate WoW at all. I played it for two years.
It's a good game.
Even if people do hate the game, that still doesn't make their MacDonalds analogy invalid.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
a·nal·o·gy (-nl-j)
n. pl. a·nal·o·gies
1.
a. Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.
b. A comparison based on such similarity. See Synonyms at likeness.
2. Biology Correspondence in function or position between organs of dissimilar evolutionary origin or structure.
3. A form of logical inference or an instance of it, based on the assumption that if two things are known to be alike in some respects, then they must be alike in other respects.
4. Linguistics The process by which words or morphemes are re-formed or created on the model of existing grammatical patterns in a language, often leading to greater regularity in paradigms, as evidenced by helped replacing holp and holpen as the past tense and past participle of help on the model of verbs such as yelp, yelped, yelped.
Taken from thefreedictionary.com
The underlined pretty much explains it.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
not complaining and my mmo isn't failing. my mmo still has 250-500k to me thats still success in the mmo market. just because WoW and runescape get millions does not make it market standard just huge success story.
In this case, wow is = HIGH quality. Tell me ONE mmo that is so polished as wow ?
Wow haters, how are we supposed to argue with people that make no sense ?
I wasn't going to replay to this post, but being one of the few vets that have been playing MMOs since it's infancy and seeing the sheer amount of hipocrisy mentioned by some posters here kinda makes one lean back in his sit and shake his head is disbelief.
All I've seen is:
Thing is all those points can be applied to 100% of all MMOs. Just to clear up a few things:
WoW is like a swiss army knife. It has a screwdriver, but it won't do the job like a standard screwdriver. It has a fork, but it's always nicer to eat with a standard fork, It has a can opener, but good luck getting a can open without bleeding to death. Thing is though, who in the world would drag a entire toolbox with them when they are tight on space and can attach a swiss army knife to their belt. It comes in handy in a pinch, just ask any soldier in the stix.
If I had to choose between EvE and WoW as a intro MMO for a friend that I'd like to get into the genre, I'd choose WoW in a heartbeat. Not because I think it's the best, but because I KNOW it's the best at what it's meant to do. This is where I've learn to set aside my passions and think with my head. I don't want to bore my friend to death before he even gets out of the starting gate. When you introduce someone to anything new you want them to have a good time. What you do not want them to do it sit their while you lecture them how to build enough points so you can actually swing a sword. Not very productive. If he can handle the standard fare then you may feel like he's ready for something a little more "involved".
This is what WoW did for MILLIONS of new players and for that I fully acknowledge them for being Game of the Decade.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
EVE....and the gameplay is superior. I can't see how WOW lovers can come to any other conclusion.
But WOW is still definitely the MMO game of the decade for many reasons outside of actual gameplay.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When faced with an issue, you always try to turn the discussion about the poster and not the point.
Ah the white flag of surrender. How sad.
Ive asked this before and you will never answer, so again. Is there any aspect of WOW you do not like?
I have answered your question before. Sorry if you didn't bother reading it.
Now, will talking about my likes/dislikes of wow change the ridiculousness of talking about hamburgers as if it makes a valid point about video games?
Must have missed it. So what was the answer?
Will my answer change the ridiculousness of talking about hamburgers as if it has anything to do with a video game?
Not that I don't think your question itself is ridiculous to begin with.
Perhaps an honest answer to the question would be what is ridiculous.
It is a stupid assumption to think that I would not have any issues with wow, which makes it a totally ridiculous question for you to ask. Just because I find your line of discussion irrelevant doesn't mean I an not objective about wow.
Just like it is ridiculous of you to always try to derail a topic into a discussion about the person posting and not the issues they are posting. It is simply what you always fall back to when your points get shown to be weak and nothing more than hot air.
So here is your answer again, since you always need someone else to do your homework: there are plenty of things about wow I do not like.
Now how about you stop avoiding a question.
Why do you need to derail the discussion to talk about the people who post instead of the issues they post?
How does questioning what I dislike about wow have any relevance on the ridiculous nature of talking about hamburgers and pretending that it is somehow relative to a discussion about video games?
you seriously have a problem understanding analogies... McDonald's was brought up as an analogy.
SO MANY people are basing off the success of WOW(Sub numbers and MOney) as the reason it should be Game of the decade instead of what the actual part of the game deserves it.
SO basically somebody said why bring up money as showing its quality. that does not show iits a quality game...
hence why McD's was brought up... look at mcdonalds... because they sold billions of hamburgers and made billions of dollars...
but what is the quality of mcdonalds? its not good. we all know this. That is why it is brought up... its called analogy... and you are looking into it like its literal. Think outside the box dude. WOW!!!! go get some education if you seriously cant understand what an analogy is.
WOW just because made millions just like McD's does it mean its a quality game... if you broke down the game you would see it falls short on a LOT of things.
as for the other fanboy who keeps spooing out garbage about how no other game has made more money then WOW.
ONE GAME i can mention that is better then WOW if you all want to go the money route.... one example...
MADDEN FOOTBALL... it came out with an upgrade EVERY YEAR since the early 90s this game upgraded its players gameplay and graphics since day 1. It has made way more money then WOW could ever dream of. So get off the high horse of WOW making more money then any other game. its made millions each year since its release since day 1. and most likely continue on for decades to come. hell madden is already on its second decade... WOW hasnt even reached one yet.
The fanboys understand the analogies, but it refutes the logic of the numbers game which is always thrown out to show how great WOW is. Bizzard money has bought a lot of the success WOW has seen. If you were running a magazine or a website what kind of reviews would you give the big advertisers? Advertising buys more than just advertisement.
Ok I apologize I read the first post and your post, and commented in haste. Anyway I guess it deserves recognition for that and some other things, although I think (not sure) that mario is still more of a household name than even WoW, but that wasn't created this decade and had a lot more time to become a household name.
I was browsing around the posts since then and I think Ilvaldyr asked something like how do you compare McDonalds and World of Warcraft (it might be a false analogy, but I can compare). Both are successful, and both are cheap, appeal to many demographics, accessible, etc. Both have good business models for being wildly successful.
I don't think most people would consider McDonalds quality food though, and at this point I'm personally not a huge fan of WoW, but it does have polish, quality, and accessibility. Just a matter of taste
Ok, last try: MacDonalds quality can ONLY be compared to other fast food chains.
Mac Donalds quality can NOT be compared to books, motion pictures and video games. MD is fast food so it can only compete ...with fast food chains.
It is NOT because some other products are huge economic successes that they can be compared to fast food chains.
You can only compare within each "quality" branche. So the analogy is false.
The quality of McDonalds that I was referring to was the food. I can compare the quality of McDonalds food to ALL types of food, from all types of restaurants, home cooked, etc.
World of Warcraft is Blizzard's game, and I can compare that game to ALL types of video games.
World of Warcraft is the most successful video game, and McDonalds is the most successful hamburger joint. The similarities lie in the success of the product/company, and their business models. That's the only analogy I am making.
Most people I know wouldn't choose McDonalds over a steak dinner, fresh seafood, or a decadent salad or whatever - and many gamers prefer other games over World of Warcraft. Not saying that either the food from McDonalds or the game don't meet a certain standard of quality (well McDonalds standard of quality is a lot more questionable in my opinion, but ANYWAY)
--------------------------
Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
Just because you choose not to accept the analogy Zorn, doesn't make it any less valid.
It is a valid comparison.
WoW is the MacDonalds of MMO's. Biggest but certainly not the best.
A pity the economic reality of video games doesn't agree with you. -
More does not mean better no matter how much you want it be that way.
There can be no comparison between books, films, video games and a restaurant.
Seriously dude. Leave the basement and interact with the real world for a bit. Comparisons are drawn all the time between products in different areas in an attempt to bring familiarity to something unfamiliar to others.
And btw: WOW as a video game is much more expensive than 99% of the other video games .... with a 15 dollar monthly subscription tagged to its play...
I really don't have the patience to list them all, but I'll just let you know you're wrong.
Short list.....
LOTRO
Fallen Earth
AoC
WAR
EVE
Darkfall
EQ2
SWG
Shall I go on....nah you get the point. You're wrong.
So it is far from cheap within its branche. It is rather expensive to play compared to other video games really.
Again wrong and I pointed out why above.
Responses in red.
The title is "video game of the decade". Citing other paid MMO's who can't reach anything in WOW numbers of yearly revenu (1.2 billion dollars on a yearly basis) is hardly "competition" on an economic scale.
I was thinking of the real economic competitors here, like the single CoD or Mario or Pokemon titles, who - as single games- are still very much under the economic revenus generated by World of Warcraft.
Not the niche markets.
And NONE of these video games can be compared with a fast food chain in whatever aspect if you are intellectual honest.
LMAO!
I like the way you ignore the other part of my post that points out how wrong you are and you just continue on your "I don't like the comparison because it makes WoW not look like the second coming of (the diety(s) or non diety of your choice).
It is intellectually dishonest to pretend the comparison isn't valid and that is why you are getting so much flak here.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Comparing McDonalds and WoW is like comparing apples and oranges.
No wait, apples and oranges are both food items and both are fruit.
I guess there is no comparison between McDonalds and WoW. Both are too dissimilar.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
McD = Massive numbers, poor quality.
WoW = Massive numbers, high quality.
Perhaps but the money generated by both is generated for the same reasons. Fast, cheap and easy.
You WOW guys crack me up. How do you not understand the analogy between McDonalds and WOW? An analogy between two things doesn't require that they are in the same industry you know?
As far as fast food goes McDonalds does it the best. They have the most consistent quality, best staff training, and they keep the place clean as hell. Personally I'm not a huge fan of processed foods, so McDonalds isn't a common choice for me when I get hungry. Neither do I like themepark MMOs. If I was another man, I might be playing WOW right now eating a Big Mac
It's a reasonable analogy, and it's not an insult to WOW. If was to describe WOW to a non-MMO player I would say it was the McDonalds of MMOs. That would help them to understand WOW's success, size, and reliability.
It would be different if he was arguing the connecting as a weak analogy, or logical fallacy, but to define the boundaries of an argument by personal feelings that are by no means academic; this is just fanboism 101.
McDonalds and WoW have a lot of thing in common from a consumer standpoint.. They are both at the top of their industry as far as popularity, both market aggressively, both have been deemed harmful is consumed in excess, both have a business model that targets a broad market, and both provide an easy low hassle experience.