How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equip
Its takes me 4 months to get Tauren shaman to Max level and get ICC gear.
And there is coming another conclusion after those 4 months i got gear and SKILLS same as players who start shammans lets say 4 years ago , in EVE i can't catch up older players with skills.
Just a example of the need not to catch up. A corp mate of mine has been playing EVE since beta and has over 100m SP's and can fly almost any ship up to capitals quite well. He was in a wormhole next to our native solo killing some sleepers in a mining site on his Dominix (battleship) when he got ambushed by a Demios (Heavy Assault Cruiser) pilot who has only been playing the game about 1.75 years now. Though he made a brave run of it, the Demios finally caught him at the wormhole exit on the native side and took him out. So in this situation, it was a combination of having the right ship to hunt with and the fact the Demios pilot was pretty good, my friend gave him props in his ability to scan him down quickly and catch him at the hole despite his best evasive maneuvers. You really don't need to catch up to be effective, you just need to train up the right tool for the right job and you can be successful.
This shows nothing, in Eve, there is a huge difference between being fitted in a ship for PvP and PvE. That 100 million SP character was flying a T1 Battleship, most likely with PvE fittings, if he was flying a T2 Battlecruiser, or even T3 Cruiser, then he would have most likely blown that Deimos out of the water (space?).
I know what you are going to say, yes player skill matters, but that is true for most of any game. Difference is that character skill and equipment matters just as much in Eve and there is no way you gonna tell me that a 100 mil SP character, trained for PvP, would not have a advantage over a 20 mil SP one.
The difference becomes even larger when you think about a 3-4 mil SP character, which can only fly T1 ships and T1 modules against a 20 mil SP in a T2 ship and decked out in all T2 fittings.
Also it is quite ironic that you say that you dont need to train up but only the right tool. What tool you can and you cannot use is directly decided by your skills, which you DO need to train up for.
How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equip
Its takes me 4 months to get Tauren shaman to Max level and get ICC gear.
And there is coming another conclusion after those 4 months i got gear and SKILLS same as players who start shammans lets say 4 years ago , in EVE i can't catch up older players with skills.
Its also one of the things that gives EVE longevity, with WoW once you hit level cap and get the best gear there is nothing to do, at least with EVE you know that there is always something on the horizon. And tbh if it was possible to max everything in a few months, it would be boring, everyone would be the same.
Whereas how EVE is now, you could have 2 players who start at the same time, yet have two completely different skillsets because they chose different paths.
The game has never been about maxing everything, its more focused on what area you want to do.
How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equip
Its takes me 4 months to get Tauren shaman to Max level and get ICC gear.
And there is coming another conclusion after those 4 months i got gear and SKILLS same as players who start shammans lets say 4 years ago , in EVE i can't catch up older players with skills.
Soooo, a new character playing WOW will play WOW for 4 months and then be at the same level as you? Player skill does not matter? You and that 4 month year old player will be equal in PVP? He will be able to run the same instances? In only 4 months?
1. No need to grind skills. You can just enjoy the game instead of grind for skills.
2. Instead of many alts you has multiple specs on one char. You just have to go in station and use your other ship.
3. Veterans do not have much benefit than few months old player as the only thing they have more than you is more specs so the just can drive more various ships and use various equipment. Few months are enough to cap skills for small or medium ship while you have mastered them and become skill full enough to drive and minimize the risk to loose your bigger one.
4. In general EvE is MMO with general M where you do not need to catch up others but just need to find you place in that world.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
One thing that people fail to accept with EVE is that no part of the content is "level locked" you can access everything within your first month. A new player will be able to play with his veteran friend from day one.
So there is no need to catch up to be able to access content at least.
One thing that people fail to accept with EVE is that no part of the content is "level locked" you can access everything within your first month. A new player will be able to play with his veteran friend from day one. So there is no need to catch up to be able to access content at least.
What most of them dont seem to understand is that EVE isnt like most run of the mill games. In games like WoW you have x amount of different classes, and they are all widely seperated so people accept that they have to train them all individually.
Whereas because in EVE a single character can access everything, they think they should be able to in the same amount of time it would take to level up a single character in a WoW type game.
To me racial ships/higher tech in EVE are like classes in other games. While yes, if you focus on a single ship type, then yeah you can max it fairly fast, but it wont help you fly another ship your not skilled for.
What I dont get is with all these people bitching and moaning that in WoW they can level to 80 and max kit it in 4 months, is yeah, you can level a single class in 4 months, yeah you could even fully kit it out in that time. But could you make it wear another classes items? i.e Priest items on a Warrior? or make a Warrior heal like a priest? Hell no you cant, if you want to do that you have to level another class.
Atleast with EVE if you fancy a change of pace, you can use your existing character, and your existing skills and just train until you can use that.
Hell my own EVE character, it has just under 50mil SP, but its almost exclusively Amarr ships, I cant even fly any other races cruisers let alone anything else. Yes its a pain at times, but the fact that I already have the support skills trained, means that if I wanted to, then I could easily train for them and use my existing skills to supplement it.
Thats a hell of a lot better than being restricted to a single race's ships and being able to train them in 4 months.
You can't catch up in diversification, but you can catch up at one thing and be very viable. This game is always ready and willing for new players, and they can get up and viably running in a couple months.
EVE is also about something else than character skill. It is about power, wealth and fun.
A player can have 1 million skill points and control a corporation that becomes influential inside an alliance. Heck, there are players playing EVE that do not need their characters at all to be successful.
How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equip
Its takes me 4 months to get Tauren shaman to Max level and get ICC gear.
And there is coming another conclusion after those 4 months i got gear and SKILLS same as players who start shammans lets say 4 years ago , in EVE i can't catch up older players with skills.
Soooo, a new character playing WOW will play WOW for 4 months and then be at the same level as you? Player skill does not matter? You and that 4 month year old player will be equal in PVP? He will be able to run the same instances? In only 4 months?
I call bullcrap on that.
We talking here about in game character skills not player skills , for example Gallente Battleships lvl 5 if you dont see diffrence its your problem here not mine imo.
And yes after 4 months i was able to run same instances as 4 year old players , ICC = Icecrown Citadel which was added in latest patch as end game raid instance.
How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
We talking here about in game character skills not player skills , for example Gallente Battleships lvl 5 if you dont see diffrence its your problem here not mine imo.
And yes after 4 months i was able to run same instances as 4 year old players , ICC = Icecrown Citadel which was added in latest patch as end game raid instance.
You do not need battleship lvl 5, those last 5% bonus is not needed to be competitive. You do not need Battleship to be competitive, Battlecruisers or Cruisers are quick to get into and from there tech 2 variations are not far away.
In 4 months you can have a character in EVE that can do "end game" in EVE (some will argue that there is no end game).
But if your goal is epeen comparison with skill points then you are shit out of luck.
How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equip
Its takes me 4 months to get Tauren shaman to Max level and get ICC gear.
And there is coming another conclusion after those 4 months i got gear and SKILLS same as players who start shammans lets say 4 years ago , in EVE i can't catch up older players with skills.
Soooo, a new character playing WOW will play WOW for 4 months and then be at the same level as you? Player skill does not matter? You and that 4 month year old player will be equal in PVP? He will be able to run the same instances? In only 4 months?
I call bullcrap on that.
We talking here about in game character skills not player skills , for example Gallente Battleships lvl 5 if you dont see diffrence its your problem here not mine imo.
And yes after 4 months i was able to run same instances as 4 year old players , ICC = Icecrown Citadel which was added in latest patch as end game raid instance.
So after 4 months you had the same amount of characters at 80 as the 4 year old player? EVE isnt about hitting a level cap, never has been, never will be. if you dont see that, then you probably never will.
You set the limits, and yes training for Capital ships can take years, but to be able to fly almost any other ship effectively only takes x amount of months, and ocne you have done that, then to train another races ships doesnt take anywhere near as long.
Take for example a Assault Frigate. the basic skill sets other than weapons and the racial ship skills, are exactly the same for all 4 races of ships. so once you have trained for 1, training for the others takes a substantial lower amount of time.
What does it matter that someone who has played for 4 years can fly dozens of different ships? he can only fly 1 at a time.
And the skills he has trained that are useful for other ships give him no benefit. What does Gallente Battleship V gain you if your in a Frigate or Cruiser? or even a Caldari Battleship?
We talking here about amount of characters or character skills ergo SP ? because i'm talking about skills .
And if we get WoW as comparison i see diffrent races ships in EVE as character biulds in WoW , you have PvE build or PvP build which i can have both on 4 month old character in WoW but how long in EvE will take me to get those 2 "builds" ?
I just posted battleships as example , so you say this 5% have totally 0 impact on gameplay and only player skills matter here ?
Veterans almost only ever train to level 5 if they need it as a pre-requisite, or if they havent got anything else they want to train.
It helps a bit, but it really isnt game breaking, end of the day even someone with 100mil sp could easily get ganked by 5 players with 1mil sp each if he was caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Skillpoints arent the be all and end all. but look at it this way. Battleship skill to lvl 5 is 2million SP. you could train half a dozen more skills to level 4 in that time, perhaps more, and it would boost your effectiveness a hell of a lot more. thats why Veterans appear to have so much more skillpoints, because they have more often than not trained most of the stuff they wanted and decided to just top it off to level 5.
2 Players meet in EVE space both in cruisers lets say , one its new char other its old , one have T1 cruiser with T1 equip other its equipped with T2 , i understand both have same chance here and skills maxed in areas from cap , shields , hull ect , ect do not have impact on battle here even if they will both meet each other in T1 ?
We talking here about amount of characters or character skills ergo SP ? because i'm talking about skills . And if we get WoW as comparison i see diffrent races ships in EVE as character biulds in WoW , you have PvE build or PvP build which i can have both on 4 month old character in WoW but how long in EvE will take me to get those 2 "builds" ?
They arent like character builds though, as your choice of modules basically equates to your build, your skills determine your class.
As for how long it would take to use your PvE skills for PvP or vice versa, very little time, because your basically doing the same things regardless, your shooting and killing and trying to stay alive.
Ill try and put it a different way.. Training to fly a Gallente Battleship, say a Dominix, maxing out all the skills you need to fly it quite well, not all lvl 5's as thats one hell of a timesink and gives you a tiny bonus, is very similar to leveling Tauren Shaman to 80 and gearing him. But in EVE you can then go on to train your current character to be a Orc Warrior, and then an Undead Warlock. without rerolling
Yes it takes time, and if you leveled those 3 classes in WoW it would take a year or so. and in EVE it'd take around the same, except you can use the same character rather than rolling alts.
2 Players meet in EVE space both in cruisers lets say , one its new char other its old , one have T1 cruiser with T1 equip other its equipped with T2 , i understand both have same chance here and skills maxed in areas from cap , shields , hull ect , ect do not have impact on battle here even if they will both meet each other in T1 ?
if they had the same skills then why wouldnt they both be equiped with T2? it'd be like two warriors in WoW. one using lvl 70 equipment, the other using lvl 80, fighting each other, the level 80 geared one would have the advantage.
T1 guns vs T2 guns adds a bit, but dont think its more than about 15-20% more damage at the most, i'd have to EFT it to be sure.
It has an impact, but nowhere near as much as you'd expect, the only difference will be if you have someone who has not got the same skills in the cap/defencive area's. its culminative, if your ahead of your opponent in 1 area, then yeah you have an advantage, and the more area's your ahead the wider the field becomes.
Thats why most new players dont try to PvP alone. a small group of new players can decimate older solo players as long as they use their heads.
I just posted battleships as example , so you say this 5% have totally 0 impact on gameplay and only player skills matter here ?
Veterans almost only ever train to level 5 if they need it as a pre-requisite, or if they havent got anything else they want to train.
It helps a bit, but it really isnt game breaking, end of the day even someone with 100mil sp could easily get ganked by 5 players with 1mil sp each if he was caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Skillpoints arent the be all and end all. but look at it this way. Battleship skill to lvl 5 is 2million SP. you could train half a dozen more skills to level 4 in that time, perhaps more, and it would boost your effectiveness a hell of a lot more. thats why Veterans appear to have so much more skillpoints, because they have more often than not trained most of the stuff they wanted and decided to just top it off to level 5.
In the end it comes to that 5% when two equal players, but unequal characters, fight each other. So the other one has the edge - albeit small but still. It is inherently unfair and no amount of reasoning can change that. Be it in diversity where one can choose always the ship that didn't get nerfed, the option to choose the exact counter-hip against the one ship your opponent can fly or just having more skill in flying one single ship.
It isn't as severe in practice as it is in theory, but that doen't make it go away.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Yes it takes time, and if you leveled those 3 classes in WoW it would take a year or so. and in EVE it'd take around the same, except you can use the same character rather than rolling alts.
Well you are again a bit wrong , lets say all WoW character you level on Horde side as you say here , after you level one char in say 4 months next alts will take you less , why ?
You can buy better gear with money from you char to level up faster , you can buy heirlooms which can give you now even +15% experience from mobs killing and quests , you know all quests now , you know quest routes , so every next char in WoW you will level faster .
Now take EVE here , you rolled first char lets say till BS and they you want "next class without relooing" to BS will you take you same amount of time like on " first char" ? Yes , and we talking here only about stricte ship flyng skills.
2 Players meet in EVE space both in cruisers lets say , one its new char other its old , one have T1 cruiser with T1 equip other its equipped with T2 , i understand both have same chance here and skills maxed in areas from cap , shields , hull ect , ect do not have impact on battle here even if they will both meet each other in T1 ?
The tech 2 equipped pilot has a definite edge.
If the Experienced pilot downgrades to tech 1 equipment he will have a slight edge as well since he will have skills to lvl 5 that the new player does not have, but that edge will mostly be in the form of a 5% bonus on a spread of modules and that is easily offset by a better setup and a better player.
if they had the same skills then why wouldnt they both be equiped with T2? it'd be like two warriors in WoW. one using lvl 70 equipment, the other using lvl 80, fighting each other, the level 80 geared one would have the advantage.
But as was posted by me in WoW i can max out my char in 4 motnh with BOTH skills and gear in EVE i can't do same thing , CCP will add new skills in game with next expansions which its good , but this will only rise gap between new and old players.
As former EVE player i can understand EVE players point of view but i also very good understand other players and newcomers point of view about EVE.
How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
Eighteen months is a bit of an exaggeration, you don't need max skills to be competitive, level 4 vs 5 is a negligible difference and you could be flying one mean Tech 2 Heavy Assault Cruiser in about 8 months. Once you get the core skills trained each successive ship becomes much faster to train for.
Right now I have a 2.5 yr old character who can fly pretty much all smalls ships up to Marauders for two races and is now working on the skills that will let him fly pretty much all 4 races small ships. This includes a major diversion into research skills that enable me to make some decent cash on the side selling datacores and running missions more efficiently as well.
But EVE is definitely a game of patience, and the longer you play, the better it becomes due to the fact you have ever increasing options at your disposal. It is the secret of the games longevity and why players who decide to stay play for so many years.
Is this a bad thing, I guess so if you are looking for a more accelerated pace and are expecting to create a max level player in 4 months as is the case in other games.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yes it takes time, and if you leveled those 3 classes in WoW it would take a year or so. and in EVE it'd take around the same, except you can use the same character rather than rolling alts.
Well you are again a bit wrong , lets say all WoW character you level on Horde side as you say here , after you level one char in say 4 months next alts will take you less , why ?
You can buy better gear with money from you char to level up faster , you can buy heirlooms which can give you now even +15% experience from mobs killing and quests , you know all quests now , you know quest routes , so every next char in WoW you will level faster .
Now take EVE here , you rolled first char lets say till BS and they you want "next class without relooing" to BS will you take you same amount of time like on " first char" ? Yes , and we talking here only about stricte ship flyng skills.
Leveling a class in wow isnt what takes the time anyway, gearing it is. Flying a ship in eve well has almost never been about the ship skill itself, ask anyone and they will always tell you that the support skills are the real key.
But yeah, your 2nd character in wow will be quicker. the same way in EVE once you've trained to fly 1 Battleship, it will be quicker for the next one, not instant but still fairly quick.
Ill EVEmon it for my character, from Minmatar Frigate 1 to Minmatar Battleship IV takes 10 days. and then a further 4 days or so for Large Projectile IV (starting from small projectile 1)
Yes that doesnt include support skills, but if you have trained to fly the first one well, then you wont need to train them again.
The only really slow process is leveling weapons, now that is a pain having to level all of them to 5 to be able to use T2 Large.
I just posted battleships as example , so you say this 5% have totally 0 impact on gameplay and only player skills matter here ?
Veterans almost only ever train to level 5 if they need it as a pre-requisite, or if they havent got anything else they want to train.
It helps a bit, but it really isnt game breaking, end of the day even someone with 100mil sp could easily get ganked by 5 players with 1mil sp each if he was caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Skillpoints arent the be all and end all. but look at it this way. Battleship skill to lvl 5 is 2million SP. you could train half a dozen more skills to level 4 in that time, perhaps more, and it would boost your effectiveness a hell of a lot more. thats why Veterans appear to have so much more skillpoints, because they have more often than not trained most of the stuff they wanted and decided to just top it off to level 5.
In the end it comes to that 5% when two equal players, but unequal characters, fight each other. So the other one has the edge - albeit small but still. It is inherently unfair and no amount of reasoning can change that. Be it in diversity where one can choose always the ship that didn't get nerfed, the option to choose the exact counter-hip against the one ship your opponent can fly or just having more skill in flying one single ship.
It isn't as severe in practice as it is in theory, but that doen't make it go away.
I sometimes fly a Rifter, I have killed Battlecruisers in that ship. I fit the Rifter with cheap tech lvl 1 equipment because I loose alot. In essence I am downgrading my character to a lvl 10 character in wow.
A new player training for the Rifter to do the same thing I do, the same thing many veteran players do, will take less than 4 months. He will most likely come away with an even win/loss against myself in my Rifter.
And sure, the 5% here and there give an edge but not as much as a player flying a ship he knows how to fly.
EDIT: Oh, if you did not know the Rifter is a cheap Frigate, my fit barely goes above 2 million isk.
Nowdays in WoW with random instances , gearing up its a joke within 1 week you can have end game raiding gear which was proved by too many players already.
And yes in EVE support skills are key i know that but there is diffrence for new players to be "meatballs " or be " competitive"
If i remember good Rifter is matar frig i don't played eve for year or something
Comments
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equip
Its takes me 4 months to get Tauren shaman to Max level and get ICC gear.
And there is coming another conclusion after those 4 months i got gear and SKILLS same as players who start shammans lets say 4 years ago , in EVE i can't catch up older players with skills.
This shows nothing, in Eve, there is a huge difference between being fitted in a ship for PvP and PvE. That 100 million SP character was flying a T1 Battleship, most likely with PvE fittings, if he was flying a T2 Battlecruiser, or even T3 Cruiser, then he would have most likely blown that Deimos out of the water (space?).
I know what you are going to say, yes player skill matters, but that is true for most of any game. Difference is that character skill and equipment matters just as much in Eve and there is no way you gonna tell me that a 100 mil SP character, trained for PvP, would not have a advantage over a 20 mil SP one.
The difference becomes even larger when you think about a 3-4 mil SP character, which can only fly T1 ships and T1 modules against a 20 mil SP in a T2 ship and decked out in all T2 fittings.
Also it is quite ironic that you say that you dont need to train up but only the right tool. What tool you can and you cannot use is directly decided by your skills, which you DO need to train up for.
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So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equip
Its takes me 4 months to get Tauren shaman to Max level and get ICC gear.
And there is coming another conclusion after those 4 months i got gear and SKILLS same as players who start shammans lets say 4 years ago , in EVE i can't catch up older players with skills.
Its also one of the things that gives EVE longevity, with WoW once you hit level cap and get the best gear there is nothing to do, at least with EVE you know that there is always something on the horizon. And tbh if it was possible to max everything in a few months, it would be boring, everyone would be the same.
Whereas how EVE is now, you could have 2 players who start at the same time, yet have two completely different skillsets because they chose different paths.
The game has never been about maxing everything, its more focused on what area you want to do.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equip
Its takes me 4 months to get Tauren shaman to Max level and get ICC gear.
And there is coming another conclusion after those 4 months i got gear and SKILLS same as players who start shammans lets say 4 years ago , in EVE i can't catch up older players with skills.
Soooo, a new character playing WOW will play WOW for 4 months and then be at the same level as you? Player skill does not matter? You and that 4 month year old player will be equal in PVP? He will be able to run the same instances? In only 4 months?
I call bullcrap on that.
I think EvE skill system is brilliant as it:
1. No need to grind skills. You can just enjoy the game instead of grind for skills.
2. Instead of many alts you has multiple specs on one char. You just have to go in station and use your other ship.
3. Veterans do not have much benefit than few months old player as the only thing they have more than you is more specs so the just can drive more various ships and use various equipment. Few months are enough to cap skills for small or medium ship while you have mastered them and become skill full enough to drive and minimize the risk to loose your bigger one.
4. In general EvE is MMO with general M where you do not need to catch up others but just need to find you place in that world.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
One thing that people fail to accept with EVE is that no part of the content is "level locked" you can access everything within your first month. A new player will be able to play with his veteran friend from day one.
So there is no need to catch up to be able to access content at least.
What most of them dont seem to understand is that EVE isnt like most run of the mill games. In games like WoW you have x amount of different classes, and they are all widely seperated so people accept that they have to train them all individually.
Whereas because in EVE a single character can access everything, they think they should be able to in the same amount of time it would take to level up a single character in a WoW type game.
To me racial ships/higher tech in EVE are like classes in other games. While yes, if you focus on a single ship type, then yeah you can max it fairly fast, but it wont help you fly another ship your not skilled for.
What I dont get is with all these people bitching and moaning that in WoW they can level to 80 and max kit it in 4 months, is yeah, you can level a single class in 4 months, yeah you could even fully kit it out in that time. But could you make it wear another classes items? i.e Priest items on a Warrior? or make a Warrior heal like a priest? Hell no you cant, if you want to do that you have to level another class.
Atleast with EVE if you fancy a change of pace, you can use your existing character, and your existing skills and just train until you can use that.
Hell my own EVE character, it has just under 50mil SP, but its almost exclusively Amarr ships, I cant even fly any other races cruisers let alone anything else. Yes its a pain at times, but the fact that I already have the support skills trained, means that if I wanted to, then I could easily train for them and use my existing skills to supplement it.
Thats a hell of a lot better than being restricted to a single race's ships and being able to train them in 4 months.
EVE is also about something else than character skill. It is about power, wealth and fun.
A player can have 1 million skill points and control a corporation that becomes influential inside an alliance. Heck, there are players playing EVE that do not need their characters at all to be successful.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equip
Its takes me 4 months to get Tauren shaman to Max level and get ICC gear.
And there is coming another conclusion after those 4 months i got gear and SKILLS same as players who start shammans lets say 4 years ago , in EVE i can't catch up older players with skills.
Soooo, a new character playing WOW will play WOW for 4 months and then be at the same level as you? Player skill does not matter? You and that 4 month year old player will be equal in PVP? He will be able to run the same instances? In only 4 months?
I call bullcrap on that.
We talking here about in game character skills not player skills , for example Gallente Battleships lvl 5 if you dont see diffrence its your problem here not mine imo.
And yes after 4 months i was able to run same instances as 4 year old players , ICC = Icecrown Citadel which was added in latest patch as end game raid instance.
We talking here about in game character skills not player skills , for example Gallente Battleships lvl 5 if you dont see diffrence its your problem here not mine imo.
And yes after 4 months i was able to run same instances as 4 year old players , ICC = Icecrown Citadel which was added in latest patch as end game raid instance.
You do not need battleship lvl 5, those last 5% bonus is not needed to be competitive. You do not need Battleship to be competitive, Battlecruisers or Cruisers are quick to get into and from there tech 2 variations are not far away.
In 4 months you can have a character in EVE that can do "end game" in EVE (some will argue that there is no end game).
But if your goal is epeen comparison with skill points then you are shit out of luck.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equip
Its takes me 4 months to get Tauren shaman to Max level and get ICC gear.
And there is coming another conclusion after those 4 months i got gear and SKILLS same as players who start shammans lets say 4 years ago , in EVE i can't catch up older players with skills.
Soooo, a new character playing WOW will play WOW for 4 months and then be at the same level as you? Player skill does not matter? You and that 4 month year old player will be equal in PVP? He will be able to run the same instances? In only 4 months?
I call bullcrap on that.
We talking here about in game character skills not player skills , for example Gallente Battleships lvl 5 if you dont see diffrence its your problem here not mine imo.
And yes after 4 months i was able to run same instances as 4 year old players , ICC = Icecrown Citadel which was added in latest patch as end game raid instance.
So after 4 months you had the same amount of characters at 80 as the 4 year old player? EVE isnt about hitting a level cap, never has been, never will be. if you dont see that, then you probably never will.
You set the limits, and yes training for Capital ships can take years, but to be able to fly almost any other ship effectively only takes x amount of months, and ocne you have done that, then to train another races ships doesnt take anywhere near as long.
Take for example a Assault Frigate. the basic skill sets other than weapons and the racial ship skills, are exactly the same for all 4 races of ships. so once you have trained for 1, training for the others takes a substantial lower amount of time.
What does it matter that someone who has played for 4 years can fly dozens of different ships? he can only fly 1 at a time.
And the skills he has trained that are useful for other ships give him no benefit. What does Gallente Battleship V gain you if your in a Frigate or Cruiser? or even a Caldari Battleship?
I just posted battleships as example , so you say this 5% have totally 0 impact on gameplay and only player skills matter here ?
@Up
We talking here about amount of characters or character skills ergo SP ? because i'm talking about skills .
And if we get WoW as comparison i see diffrent races ships in EVE as character biulds in WoW , you have PvE build or PvP build which i can have both on 4 month old character in WoW but how long in EvE will take me to get those 2 "builds" ?
Veterans almost only ever train to level 5 if they need it as a pre-requisite, or if they havent got anything else they want to train.
It helps a bit, but it really isnt game breaking, end of the day even someone with 100mil sp could easily get ganked by 5 players with 1mil sp each if he was caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Skillpoints arent the be all and end all. but look at it this way. Battleship skill to lvl 5 is 2million SP. you could train half a dozen more skills to level 4 in that time, perhaps more, and it would boost your effectiveness a hell of a lot more. thats why Veterans appear to have so much more skillpoints, because they have more often than not trained most of the stuff they wanted and decided to just top it off to level 5.
Ok lets take other example:
2 Players meet in EVE space both in cruisers lets say , one its new char other its old , one have T1 cruiser with T1 equip other its equipped with T2 , i understand both have same chance here and skills maxed in areas from cap , shields , hull ect , ect do not have impact on battle here even if they will both meet each other in T1 ?
They arent like character builds though, as your choice of modules basically equates to your build, your skills determine your class.
As for how long it would take to use your PvE skills for PvP or vice versa, very little time, because your basically doing the same things regardless, your shooting and killing and trying to stay alive.
Ill try and put it a different way.. Training to fly a Gallente Battleship, say a Dominix, maxing out all the skills you need to fly it quite well, not all lvl 5's as thats one hell of a timesink and gives you a tiny bonus, is very similar to leveling Tauren Shaman to 80 and gearing him. But in EVE you can then go on to train your current character to be a Orc Warrior, and then an Undead Warlock. without rerolling
Yes it takes time, and if you leveled those 3 classes in WoW it would take a year or so. and in EVE it'd take around the same, except you can use the same character rather than rolling alts.
if they had the same skills then why wouldnt they both be equiped with T2? it'd be like two warriors in WoW. one using lvl 70 equipment, the other using lvl 80, fighting each other, the level 80 geared one would have the advantage.
T1 guns vs T2 guns adds a bit, but dont think its more than about 15-20% more damage at the most, i'd have to EFT it to be sure.
It has an impact, but nowhere near as much as you'd expect, the only difference will be if you have someone who has not got the same skills in the cap/defencive area's. its culminative, if your ahead of your opponent in 1 area, then yeah you have an advantage, and the more area's your ahead the wider the field becomes.
Thats why most new players dont try to PvP alone. a small group of new players can decimate older solo players as long as they use their heads.
Veterans almost only ever train to level 5 if they need it as a pre-requisite, or if they havent got anything else they want to train.
It helps a bit, but it really isnt game breaking, end of the day even someone with 100mil sp could easily get ganked by 5 players with 1mil sp each if he was caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Skillpoints arent the be all and end all. but look at it this way. Battleship skill to lvl 5 is 2million SP. you could train half a dozen more skills to level 4 in that time, perhaps more, and it would boost your effectiveness a hell of a lot more. thats why Veterans appear to have so much more skillpoints, because they have more often than not trained most of the stuff they wanted and decided to just top it off to level 5.
In the end it comes to that 5% when two equal players, but unequal characters, fight each other. So the other one has the edge - albeit small but still. It is inherently unfair and no amount of reasoning can change that. Be it in diversity where one can choose always the ship that didn't get nerfed, the option to choose the exact counter-hip against the one ship your opponent can fly or just having more skill in flying one single ship.
It isn't as severe in practice as it is in theory, but that doen't make it go away.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Yes it takes time, and if you leveled those 3 classes in WoW it would take a year or so. and in EVE it'd take around the same, except you can use the same character rather than rolling alts.
Well you are again a bit wrong , lets say all WoW character you level on Horde side as you say here , after you level one char in say 4 months next alts will take you less , why ?
You can buy better gear with money from you char to level up faster , you can buy heirlooms which can give you now even +15% experience from mobs killing and quests , you know all quests now , you know quest routes , so every next char in WoW you will level faster .
Now take EVE here , you rolled first char lets say till BS and they you want "next class without relooing" to BS will you take you same amount of time like on " first char" ? Yes , and we talking here only about stricte ship flyng skills.
And i wan't only add i played EVE for 2 years.
The tech 2 equipped pilot has a definite edge.
If the Experienced pilot downgrades to tech 1 equipment he will have a slight edge as well since he will have skills to lvl 5 that the new player does not have, but that edge will mostly be in the form of a 5% bonus on a spread of modules and that is easily offset by a better setup and a better player.
But as was posted by me in WoW i can max out my char in 4 motnh with BOTH skills and gear in EVE i can't do same thing , CCP will add new skills in game with next expansions which its good , but this will only rise gap between new and old players.
As former EVE player i can understand EVE players point of view but i also very good understand other players and newcomers point of view about EVE.
Eighteen months is a bit of an exaggeration, you don't need max skills to be competitive, level 4 vs 5 is a negligible difference and you could be flying one mean Tech 2 Heavy Assault Cruiser in about 8 months. Once you get the core skills trained each successive ship becomes much faster to train for.
Right now I have a 2.5 yr old character who can fly pretty much all smalls ships up to Marauders for two races and is now working on the skills that will let him fly pretty much all 4 races small ships. This includes a major diversion into research skills that enable me to make some decent cash on the side selling datacores and running missions more efficiently as well.
But EVE is definitely a game of patience, and the longer you play, the better it becomes due to the fact you have ever increasing options at your disposal. It is the secret of the games longevity and why players who decide to stay play for so many years.
Is this a bad thing, I guess so if you are looking for a more accelerated pace and are expecting to create a max level player in 4 months as is the case in other games.
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Yes it takes time, and if you leveled those 3 classes in WoW it would take a year or so. and in EVE it'd take around the same, except you can use the same character rather than rolling alts.
Well you are again a bit wrong , lets say all WoW character you level on Horde side as you say here , after you level one char in say 4 months next alts will take you less , why ?
You can buy better gear with money from you char to level up faster , you can buy heirlooms which can give you now even +15% experience from mobs killing and quests , you know all quests now , you know quest routes , so every next char in WoW you will level faster .
Now take EVE here , you rolled first char lets say till BS and they you want "next class without relooing" to BS will you take you same amount of time like on " first char" ? Yes , and we talking here only about stricte ship flyng skills.
Leveling a class in wow isnt what takes the time anyway, gearing it is. Flying a ship in eve well has almost never been about the ship skill itself, ask anyone and they will always tell you that the support skills are the real key.
But yeah, your 2nd character in wow will be quicker. the same way in EVE once you've trained to fly 1 Battleship, it will be quicker for the next one, not instant but still fairly quick.
Ill EVEmon it for my character, from Minmatar Frigate 1 to Minmatar Battleship IV takes 10 days. and then a further 4 days or so for Large Projectile IV (starting from small projectile 1)
Yes that doesnt include support skills, but if you have trained to fly the first one well, then you wont need to train them again.
The only really slow process is leveling weapons, now that is a pain having to level all of them to 5 to be able to use T2 Large.
Veterans almost only ever train to level 5 if they need it as a pre-requisite, or if they havent got anything else they want to train.
It helps a bit, but it really isnt game breaking, end of the day even someone with 100mil sp could easily get ganked by 5 players with 1mil sp each if he was caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Skillpoints arent the be all and end all. but look at it this way. Battleship skill to lvl 5 is 2million SP. you could train half a dozen more skills to level 4 in that time, perhaps more, and it would boost your effectiveness a hell of a lot more. thats why Veterans appear to have so much more skillpoints, because they have more often than not trained most of the stuff they wanted and decided to just top it off to level 5.
In the end it comes to that 5% when two equal players, but unequal characters, fight each other. So the other one has the edge - albeit small but still. It is inherently unfair and no amount of reasoning can change that. Be it in diversity where one can choose always the ship that didn't get nerfed, the option to choose the exact counter-hip against the one ship your opponent can fly or just having more skill in flying one single ship.
It isn't as severe in practice as it is in theory, but that doen't make it go away.
I sometimes fly a Rifter, I have killed Battlecruisers in that ship. I fit the Rifter with cheap tech lvl 1 equipment because I loose alot. In essence I am downgrading my character to a lvl 10 character in wow.
A new player training for the Rifter to do the same thing I do, the same thing many veteran players do, will take less than 4 months. He will most likely come away with an even win/loss against myself in my Rifter.
And sure, the 5% here and there give an edge but not as much as a player flying a ship he knows how to fly.
EDIT: Oh, if you did not know the Rifter is a cheap Frigate, my fit barely goes above 2 million isk.
Nowdays in WoW with random instances , gearing up its a joke within 1 week you can have end game raiding gear which was proved by too many players already.
And yes in EVE support skills are key i know that but there is diffrence for new players to be "meatballs " or be " competitive"
If i remember good Rifter is matar frig i don't played eve for year or something