LOL, and it goes round and round. As always. The bottom line is that you have to buy a character or tag along and be a disposable 'tackler' (real entertaining, that one, you basically consume a few seconds and a few shots/missiles/volleys of the opposing player) or eat training time for a few years, minimum. The only decent argument I saw was someone running PvE and barely got caught by another player with less time in. The only thing is, the attacking player was probably fitted for PvP (tactics to the newer player, sure), but the new player was in for 1.75 years versus five. LOL. How many ppl looking into starting up Eve wanna be competitive in 2 years? Raise your hands... Yes, there are a finite number of skills. I doubt even the 1.75 year player had everything maxed that addressed the ship he was flying. Even if it was T1. T1 is not competitive in 0.0. Can you make a few kills? Sure if you luck out and have a good corp. But you are gonna be buying ISK to keep yourself fitted. Can you make lots of money in Eve? Sure, but you can't be training to be 'competitive' in some as yet undefined period of mere months in PvP and still be training all your indy skills or trade skills to be decent at trading.
New Players: It requires both player skill AND character skill (which is lots of time or money) to be competitive in lowsec or nulsec. Don't let any of these guys fool you. If you have a nice corp, you might make some sort of contribution in about 6~9 months. Otherwise, you'll be told to play the role of cannon fodder if they even let you in. Most have SP minimums right up front.
What?
You mean that I can't join this game...play for 6 months, and be just as skilled (player and character) as another character that's 5 years in?!?!
Players that have been playing longer are (generally) going to have more money, friends, assets, and (character) skill than me?!?!?
I can't train to be the best trader, PvPer, miner, PvE missioner, etc all at the same time?!?!?
I can't drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew and stay up for 8 weeks straight to become the leetest, epic'd out, pewpew wtfpwner of all of EvE history?!?!?
Man, this game sucks. You should be able to power-level (?) to max competitiveness, attain all epic’d out purples, and wtfleetroflmaogtfopewpewpwn all the noobs in 3 months max!
Sigh. I wish they made a game like that...
Actually, smart@55, I said be competitive. Not wipe everyone out in anything you try to do. At least you admit it, thank you. That is all I have been after; give the new guys some realistic expectations. Some of these guys lure new players in with the expectation that they're gonna pirate in nulsec or 'run with the big boys' in short order and it isn't so.
What does “be competitive” mean? The way you described it sounded very much like flying around and dominating everything (PvP, PvE, trade, industry, etc). Your notion of “running with the big boys” is very much a WoW-type thought process that has no place in EvE. What do you mean by “big boys”? People in big ships? I’m sure you can find plenty of asshats flying big ships that bought their EvE characters and have no idea what they’re doing. I guess you can fly around with them, if it makes you feel better to see big ships, but it’s not going to get you very far.
T1 can certainly “be competitive” in low or null sec, and achieve way more than a few kills, if they play smart and use sound tactics. Are you going to fly around in your T1 frig and wipe the floor with well equipped and skilled (player and character) battleships? No. But you sure as hell can pick a target from the plethora of uninformed players that follow advice like yours, and buy characters that can fly ships and use modules they have no clue how to operate effectively.
A new player could also do a little research and find a pirate corp that accepts new players, at which point they can certainly pirate null sec in a gang of experienced PvPers (and not simply be cannon fodder). Here are links to two such corps:
No, all things being equal, a new player will be unlikely to achieve the skill (player and character), ISK and assets of another player who started playing years before them, in 6 months time. But EvE isn’t about max-level, or being epic’d out. It’s about building your own name doing something that you enjoy, and doing it well. Are there always going to be those that are better than you? Probably. Why is that a bad thing? If nothing else, it means you’ll always have something else to improve on.
By competitive I mean your personal skills can make up for the difference in gear. I mean you have a relatively decent chance on a regular basis to come out on top. It's tough to measure it directly since few battles are 1 v 1 in nulsec (at least for very long).
I never said anything about max-level or 'epic'd out' to use your vernacular. You are imposing your own WoW comparisons. I have played most MMO's since they first became a genre that technology could allow, so Wow is merely a fad or one milestone to me; not the end-all measuring stick.
By 'big boys' I refer to a corp that operates in nulsec with it's own territory and under constant probes and attacks. Can you go out there as a low skill pilot? Sure, with their protection and whatnot. Are you competitive? Nope, not typically. Can you contribute? Sure. I went out my first time and based out of nulsec as a 1.9M SP pilot. I tackled, I threw mining lasers on my pew pew ship, I donned a cloaking device and played sentry or scanned out stuff. Whatever. It was fun. But I couldn't stand toe to toe with a nanoHAC, no way. I tried. I helped tackle stuff, but tackling doesn't really work on some stuff, obviously. No way in h*ll am I gonna stick all my SP into tackling, either.
As I said, I personally don't play tons of Eve just because I am a jack of all trades and being pigeon holed to get to a competitive level in ONE thing quickly doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.
I feel I have made my point and defended my logic. Yours may be different, but it's ultimately opinion vs. opinion. I see no need to continue past this to the point of arguing; it just makes everyone look foolish and petty. Peace out.
Eve really is the best MMO in existence. I think all the people who make it past the initial learning curve would agree.
Your statement is false. I've been playing for about 5 to 6 months now and I don't agree. I know many who think the same. Best way for me to describe it would be: "sufficient". There isn't anything better so I play Eve. This does not make me happy. It makes me quite sad. Depressed even.
We need more competition in the MMO market to push the level of quality and innovation to new limits. Take Eve for example, the competition is almost non-existent and feeble at best. Eve is definately where it is now not only because of its merits, but because the competition is very, very weak.
Sorry for going off-topic.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Eve really is the best MMO in existence. I think all the people who make it past the initial learning curve would agree.
Your statement is false. I've been playing for about 5 to 6 months now and I don't agree. I know many who think the same. Best way for me to describe it would be: "sufficient". There isn't anything better so I play Eve. This does not make me happy. It makes me quite sad. Depressed even.
We need more competition in the MMO market to push the level of quality and innovation to new limits. Take Eve for example, the competition is almost non-existent and feeble at best. Eve is definately where it is now not only because of its merits, but because the competition is very, very weak.
Sorry for going off-topic.
Why dont you give Darkfall a shot. You might like it.
Eve really is the best MMO in existence. I think all the people who make it past the initial learning curve would agree.
Your statement is false. I've been playing for about 5 to 6 months now and I don't agree. I know many who think the same. Best way for me to describe it would be: "sufficient". There isn't anything better so I play Eve. This does not make me happy. It makes me quite sad. Depressed even.
We need more competition in the MMO market to push the level of quality and innovation to new limits. Take Eve for example, the competition is almost non-existent and feeble at best. Eve is definately where it is now not only because of its merits, but because the competition is very, very weak.
Sorry for going off-topic.
Well, I'm not sure what you're currently doing in EVE at the 6 month mark, but I've found that changing what I'm doing on a regular basis keeps the game fresh.
I started out the first 3-5 months like many running missions and earning enough ISK and Skills to fly a BS and Stealth bomber. I then went out to 0.0 and ran with a Steath corp for a about 6 months learning how to lose Ravens to ceptor gangs and eventually busting POS's ad nauseum in an armor tanked Raven fleet during the BOB wars. (oh yeah, our alliance FREGE lost its home systems during the process so we switched over to IRON and continued onwards.
Got tired of that, went back to empire, ran missions for a bit to regroup, then joined an Empire based corp which grew quite large and promptly became the regular targets of several merc corps who enjoyed fighting us because we were fun. (we fought back). After about 6 months of campaigns, I went back out to 0.0 with a couple of different alliances, mostly ratting ores and running home defense when necessary. Got to see the end of a hated rival (Smash/Road-Kill) only to have my own crushed once again by the Goonswarm (our former allies).
Back to empire, more ratting, decided it was time to learn about wormholes, spent about 4 months living the life, now have returned to empire and am exploring low sec/0.0 in my stealth Tengu.
Not sure what will be next on my plate, I'll just sort of hang out and see what turns up.
Point of all this text? EVE is what you make of it, if you find you are bored, go find something else to do. (but not mining, never that, perish the thought)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I wouldn't make a statement like I did without knowing I have done pretty much 90% of what there is to do in Eve (yes, even mining), but I see your point. I guess there is still high-level wormholes, high-level complexes, lvl5 missions and more 0.0 action to be had. I have been fortunate to land on a very active and very diverse corp which has moved on from high-sec wars, to low-sec and 0.0. The 0.0 is quite new to me but not that much different from the other activities imo. Significantly better than the rest, I agree - but not that different.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Strange, I was just thinking about someone who complained about not being able to catch up the other day. I tried to imagine how someone could even think this. The only word to describe that mentality is ignorance. I do not mean the word ignorance to be an insult at all: literally it is a lack of knowledge. I run 5 accounts, one does combat for missions, the other is an industrial miner/builder, yet another is an explorer. I never feel as though I can't 'catch up' to one of the people who've played since launch at all.
Let us use WoW for a moment... You create a character. You roll the toon to 80 and gear up. At that point do you ever sit around thinking to yourself...'Man I'll never catch up to the first person who got to 80 on this server!'? Hellz no you don't. You don't even care who made it to 80 first. You are too busy having fun. Get in your ship. Start your skills training. Do something and then someone else will be 'behind you' trying to 'catch up' to you. You only become something in EVE if you try >:P~
Strange, I was just thinking about someone who complained about not being able to catch up the other day. I tried to imagine how someone could even think this. The only word to describe that mentality is ignorance. I do not mean the word ignorance to be an insult at all: literally it is a lack of knowledge. I run 5 accounts, one does combat for missions, the other is an industrial miner/builder, yet another is an explorer. I never feel as though I can't 'catch up' to one of the people who've played since launch at all. Let us use WoW for a moment... You create a character. You roll the toon to 80 and gear up. At that point do you ever sit around thinking to yourself...'Man I'll never catch up to the first person who got to 80 on this server!'? Hellz no you don't. You don't even care who made it to 80 first. You are too busy having fun. Get in your ship. Start your skills training. Do something and then someone else will be 'behind you' trying to 'catch up' to you. You only become something in EVE if you try >:P~
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me this argument come from people feeling superior because they grind 20 + hours a day. It's not about catching up, it's about being able to pwn the people that start when you do and catching up. " I play more and have better stuff so I’m better, and I don't want to play a game that doesn't let me be better". It's an illusion and a character flaw I would say.
And you are absolutely right, EVE's complexity makes the argument pointless. Even the people that have "caught up" face just as many dangers and hardships as those just starting out.
If your waiting to catch up and be elite in this game it isn't going to happen.
You're actually trying to make a point about catching up while admitting to having 5 accounts? So many characters specialized in different roles will of course provide you with a sort of skillpoint "equivalent" to a character who's been playing for many years. What you've done is essentially achieve a five times faster skill training rate, assuming all characters are focusing on seperate skillsets.
However, most people in their right mind are not willing to pay $75 a month to reach some degree of equality, not to mention the fact that this game was never designed around having alts (I can see two accounts being reasonable, but anything above is certainly out of the norm).
If you insist on using World of Warcraft comparisons, please stick to the limitations of using ONE account per game. All your post did was prove that you better have several accounts in EVE to become competitive, and this is CERTAINLY not the case in World of Warcraft or any other MMO I can think of.
You're actually trying to make a point about catching up while admitting to having 5 accounts? So many characters specialized in different roles will of course provide you with a sort of skillpoint "equivalent" to a character who's been playing for many years. What you've done is essentially achieve a five times faster skill training rate, assuming all characters are focusing on seperate skillsets. However, most people in their right mind are not willing to pay $75 a month to reach some degree of equality, not to mention the fact that this game was never designed around having alts (I can see two accounts being reasonable, but anything above is certainly out of the norm).
If you insist on using World of Warcraft comparisons, please stick to the limitations of using ONE account per game. All your post did was prove that you better have several accounts in EVE to become competitive, and this is CERTAINLY not the case in World of Warcraft or any other MMO I can think of.
Only reason I have had multiple accounts in eve was because there is so much cool stuff to try out!
Industrialist, small ship specialist, explorer/ prober, covert ops specialist, capital ship specialist, etc...
Don't get me wrong, there are situations where having an alt and multiboxing is very convenient but they really have nothing whatsoever to do with "catching up."
You're actually trying to make a point about catching up while admitting to having 5 accounts? So many characters specialized in different roles will of course provide you with a sort of skillpoint "equivalent" to a character who's been playing for many years. What you've done is essentially achieve a five times faster skill training rate, assuming all characters are focusing on seperate skillsets. However, most people in their right mind are not willing to pay $75 a month to reach some degree of equality, not to mention the fact that this game was never designed around having alts (I can see two accounts being reasonable, but anything above is certainly out of the norm).
If you insist on using World of Warcraft comparisons, please stick to the limitations of using ONE account per game. All your post did was prove that you better have several accounts in EVE to become competitive, and this is CERTAINLY not the case in World of Warcraft or any other MMO I can think of.
Er, well, that's not entirely true. If you wish to have characters of every class, it will take you considerable time to get them, just like it does in EVE. I don't see much difference.
I've got an account that is 2.5 years old, and he most definitely has "caught up." Does that mean that he can mine, or fly a Capitol ship? Nope, but sure can fly a couple dozen ship hulls and soon will be able to fire every gun or missile in the game for ships up through Mauraders.
Now if you are expecting to be able to do everything in EVE on one account at least make a fair comparison to a game with WOW where you would have to level up a character in every race on both sides of the faction war. (and don't forget to level up every crafting and gathering skill on the way.
You're right, few people do this in WOW, they focus on what they enjoy, same thing with EVE.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You're actually trying to make a point about catching up while admitting to having 5 accounts? So many characters specialized in different roles will of course provide you with a sort of skillpoint "equivalent" to a character who's been playing for many years. What you've done is essentially achieve a five times faster skill training rate, assuming all characters are focusing on seperate skillsets. However, most people in their right mind are not willing to pay $75 a month to reach some degree of equality, not to mention the fact that this game was never designed around having alts (I can see two accounts being reasonable, but anything above is certainly out of the norm).
If you insist on using World of Warcraft comparisons, please stick to the limitations of using ONE account per game. All your post did was prove that you better have several accounts in EVE to become competitive, and this is CERTAINLY not the case in World of Warcraft or any other MMO I can think of.
Friend I have a concept for you to put in your (hopefully peace) pipe and smoke upon... Not only do I not pay 75$ a month for my 5 accounts: I pay ZERO dollars a month to play EVE. This game is played for absolutely free because I use my characters to generate enough ISK to buy PLEXes for them all. WoW would never allow such a game mechanic. EVE has no comparison. Time invested in the game means you have abilities to play with in the game. If you never start because you are worried about catching up... well you never will catch the point of playing at all. Entertainment. Whether you like this game or not is a matter of taste. To me that taste is savory freedom.
You're actually trying to make a point about catching up while admitting to having 5 accounts? So many characters specialized in different roles will of course provide you with a sort of skillpoint "equivalent" to a character who's been playing for many years. What you've done is essentially achieve a five times faster skill training rate, assuming all characters are focusing on seperate skillsets. However, most people in their right mind are not willing to pay $75 a month to reach some degree of equality, not to mention the fact that this game was never designed around having alts (I can see two accounts being reasonable, but anything above is certainly out of the norm).
If you insist on using World of Warcraft comparisons, please stick to the limitations of using ONE account per game. All your post did was prove that you better have several accounts in EVE to become competitive, and this is CERTAINLY not the case in World of Warcraft or any other MMO I can think of.
I don't think you "get" eve.
Your character is just an asset, just like your ship or even game time is (I play 8 accounts without paying a dime, I could easily fund an account for 30 years). Saying you can't ever "catch up" is like saying you won't ever get that best sword in an mmo because you don't play enough.
Sure, you can't without hard work, because you damn well know '03 characters have spend 1000+ hours in eve to get there (reputation is just as meaningful as skillpoints in eve).
So again, to drive the point accross, Eve isn't like other games. Your character is only an asset, you can easily upgrade it by paying for your account and buying skills, or saving up lots of isk and simply buying a new one. Your account is just an asset that takes 275m a month to run. If you have lots of isk, you can buy more accounts just like you can buy a shiny new ship.
People need to stop looking at eve like other MMOs. Eve online is based on an economic model not entirely unlike our own in the fact that you can buy everything with enough isk. Look at eve online through hyper capitalist eyes or not at all, that's how you need to see it to understand the game. (It's not a hard concept to grasp, we don't have guilds but "corporations" ffs.)
EVE is a game you really have to like to keep playing.
I enjoyed your post, and it made many good points.
This line is particularly funny though, don't you think?
(image in my head of a guy spending hours online thinking "god I hate this shit" lol)
And sadly, at any given moment in time there is someone running the same raid duingeon that they have been running for the past month... thinking exactly that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Analogizing EVE with maxed-out characters in a fantasy MMORPG is a semi-decent way to show people how "you really can catch up"... but EVE is different from fantasy MMORPGs in one key way: While fantasy MMORPGs invariably have "classes" that are more-or-less equally powerful and balanced once they reach "max level," in EVE ships are most definitely not created equal.
In a very real sense, your analogy is misleading. A new player can't "catch up" to a mothership pilot with maxed-out skills in three months. They can get a bunch of T2 frigate skills up to level 4 (maybe a few 5s) in six months, but that frigate can't dream of going head-to-head with a mothership in combat, nor contributing as much to a fleet battle, etc.
Yeah yeah, I know, no EVE ship is all-powerful and they all have different roles to play... but a mothership is still better by far than any T2 frigate. Yes, it has a specific role to play, but it's still a far more precious and powerful asset.
If it weren't better than a T2 frigate, everyone would just fly around in T2 frigates, since those are cheaper.
The fact of the matter is, you can only "catch up" in less than one real-life year if you aim fairly low as far as which ships you'll want to be flying. If you want to fly a mothership, it's going to take you at least a couple of years to "catch up"... and while you're skilling up to fly it, your choice of other activities in EVE will be a bit limited (to combat) unless you pay for multiple accounts.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
My response to the original post in this thread: Analogizing EVE with maxed-out characters in a fantasy MMORPG is a semi-decent way to show people how "you really can catch up"... but EVE is different from fantasy MMORPGs in one key way: While fantasy MMORPGs invariably have "classes" that are more-or-less equally powerful and balanced once they reach "max level," in EVE ships are most definitely not created equal. In a very real sense, your analogy is misleading. A new player can't "catch up" to a mothership pilot with maxed-out skills in three months. They can get a bunch of T2 frigate skills up to level 4 (maybe a few 5s) in six months, but that frigate can't dream of going head-to-head with a mothership in combat, nor contributing as much to a fleet battle, etc. Yeah yeah, I know, no EVE ship is all-powerful and they all have different roles to play... but a mothership is still better by far than any T2 frigate. Yes, it has a specific role to play, but it's still a far more precious and powerful asset. If it weren't better than a T2 frigate, everyone would just fly around in T2 frigates, since those are cheaper.
Your entire argument seems to be based on a familiarity with mainstream Diku-style MMOs, which has nothing to do with how EVE works. It also seems to indicate you are under the impression that people who can fly motherships are flying motherships. You'd probably be surprised at how many people have been playing for years and probably could have trained for capital ships but simply had absolutely no need to fly one.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Analogizing EVE with maxed-out characters in a fantasy MMORPG is a semi-decent way to show people how "you really can catch up"... but EVE is different from fantasy MMORPGs in one key way: While fantasy MMORPGs invariably have "classes" that are more-or-less equally powerful and balanced once they reach "max level," in EVE ships are most definitely not created equal.
In a very real sense, your analogy is misleading. A new player can't "catch up" to a mothership pilot with maxed-out skills in three months. They can get a bunch of T2 frigate skills up to level 4 (maybe a few 5s) in six months, but that frigate can't dream of going head-to-head with a mothership in combat, nor contributing as much to a fleet battle, etc.
Yeah yeah, I know, no EVE ship is all-powerful and they all have different roles to play... but a mothership is still better by far than any T2 frigate. Yes, it has a specific role to play, but it's still a far more precious and powerful asset.
If it weren't better than a T2 frigate, everyone would just fly around in T2 frigates, since those are cheaper.
The fact of the matter is, you can only "catch up" in less than one real-life year if you aim fairly low as far as which ships you'll want to be flying. If you want to fly a mothership, it's going to take you at least a couple of years to "catch up"... and while you're skilling up to fly it, your choice of other activities in EVE will be a bit limited (to combat) unless you pay for multiple accounts.
But now you're making an incorrect analogy, given a set period of time, a new player could train up the skills to fly a Supercarrier (Motherships no longer exist) and they would be able to fly head to head against that veteran, because in all that time (even if it took 2 years to train) the veteran could gain no additional skills to help him (or her) fly that Supercarrier any better.
He might go on to train up Dreadnaughts of another race, but they serve a different role and the veteran isn't really any more powerful, just more versatile.
I've been playing EVE for 2.5 years now, and while I could have trained up for a Capital ships like a Super Carrier, I'm not willing to fight in the sort of fleet engagments they typically get involved in, and while they are pretty tough, many a Capital has been killed by a horde of smaller ships if it happened to get caught in the wrong place/time without proper fleet support
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Loktofeit Your entire argument seems to be based on a familiarity with mainstream Diku-style MMOs, which has nothing to do with how EVE works. It also seems to indicate you are under the impression that people who can fly motherships are flying motherships. You'd probably be surprised at how many people have been playing for years and probably could have trained for capital ships but simply had absolutely no need to fly one.
I'm perfectly aware of how EVE "works." I played regularly for almost two years, and immensely enjoyed my later career as a pirate in the Applied Eugenics corporation.
In response to your statement, I offer another statement: There are motherships in EVE Online. These motherships are piloted by EVE players. The fact that not everyone needs or desires to pilot a mothership is irrelevant to my point, as is the fact that motherships and titans are considered to be alliance assets.
If someone aspires to pilot one of the most powerful ships in the game (this is not limited to motherships or titans), it's going to take them an exceedingly long time to reach their goal.
This thread is based on the premise that older players don't keep accumulating more and more personal power for their characters; instead, they learn a wider variety of skills, allowing them to pilot a wider variety of ships and accomplish more things within the game (the analogy made by the OP re: character classes in fantasy MMORPGs).
That's true, but it's misleading since, indeed, EVE does in fact have "super characters" (titanic ships with huge skill requirements and equipment that's far more expensive than the ship itself). So if someone's idea of "catching up" means having a very powerful ship (like having a very powerful fantasy MMO character), yes, it's going to take them a long time.
EDIT: Apparently motherships have been replaced by supercarriers? Yeah, I've been out of the loop for a while. BoB and the Goons are gone too, what's the world coming to?
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Originally posted by Loktofeit Your entire argument seems to be based on a familiarity with mainstream Diku-style MMOs, which has nothing to do with how EVE works. It also seems to indicate you are under the impression that people who can fly motherships are flying motherships. You'd probably be surprised at how many people have been playing for years and probably could have trained for capital ships but simply had absolutely no need to fly one.
I'm perfectly aware of how EVE "works." I played regularly for almost two years, and immensely enjoyed my later career as a pirate in the Applied Eugenics corporation.
In response to your statement, I offer another statement: There are motherships in EVE Online. These motherships are piloted by EVE players. The fact that not everyone needs or desires to pilot a mothership is irrelevant to my point, as is the fact that motherships and titans are considered to be alliance assets.
If someone aspires to pilot one of the most powerful ships in the game (this is not limited to motherships or titans), it's going to take them an exceedingly long time to reach their goal.
This thread is based on the premise that older players don't keep accumulating more and more personal power for their characters; instead, they learn a wider variety of skills, allowing them to pilot a wider variety of ships and accomplish more things within the game (the analogy made by the OP re: character classes in fantasy MMORPGs).
That's true, but it's misleading since, indeed, EVE does in fact have "super characters" (titanic ships with huge skill requirements and equipment that's far more expensive than the ship itself). So if someone's idea of "catching up" means having a very powerful ship (like having a very powerful fantasy MMO character), yes, it's going to take them a long time.
EDIT: Apparently motherships have been replaced by supercarriers? Yeah, I've been out of the loop for a while. BoB and the Goons are gone too, what's the world coming to?
If it’s a choice between playing a game where I’m maxed-out in three month, then have to start a new but different class character so I can play the same game again, or playing a game where I can play one character and progress almost indefinitely, that seems like a pretty easy choice to me.
Also older player quit regularly (just ask the goons) so catching up in terms of skill points is very possible.
Just a example of the need not to catch up. A corp mate of mine has been playing EVE since beta and has over 100m SP's and can fly almost any ship up to capitals quite well. He was in a wormhole next to our native solo killing some sleepers in a mining site on his Dominix (battleship) when he got ambushed by a Demios (Heavy Assault Cruiser) pilot who has only been playing the game about 1.75 years now. Though he made a brave run of it, the Demios finally caught him at the wormhole exit on the native side and took him out. So in this situation, it was a combination of having the right ship to hunt with and the fact the Demios pilot was pretty good, my friend gave him props in his ability to scan him down quickly and catch him at the hole despite his best evasive maneuvers. You really don't need to catch up to be effective, you just need to train up the right tool for the right job and you can be successful.
This shows nothing, in Eve, there is a huge difference between being fitted in a ship for PvP and PvE. That 100 million SP character was flying a T1 Battleship, most likely with PvE fittings, if he was flying a T2 Battlecruiser, or even T3 Cruiser, then he would have most likely blown that Deimos out of the water (space?).
I know what you are going to say, yes player skill matters, but that is true for most of any game. Difference is that character skill and equipment matters just as much in Eve and there is no way you gonna tell me that a 100 mil SP character, trained for PvP, would not have a advantage over a 20 mil SP one.
The difference becomes even larger when you think about a 3-4 mil SP character, which can only fly T1 ships and T1 modules against a 20 mil SP in a T2 ship and decked out in all T2 fittings.
Also it is quite ironic that you say that you dont need to train up but only the right tool. What tool you can and you cannot use is directly decided by your skills, which you DO need to train up for.
Excuse me ladies and/or (have to be completely PC these days don't we?) gentlemen... Not all your skills are used for one thing. A good portion of the 100 mil SP characters' skills have nothing at all to do with PVP. He has industry skills which help him manufacture and research, he has mining skills which help him gather materials, He has exploration skills which help him find uncommon materials and so forth. Yes a 20 mil SP character who is focused on PVP stands a good chance against a 100 mil SP player.
That's true, but it's misleading since, indeed, EVE does in fact have "super characters" (titanic ships with huge skill requirements and equipment that's far more expensive than the ship itself). So if someone's idea of "catching up" means having a very powerful ship (like having a very powerful fantasy MMO character), yes, it's going to take them a long time.
Now this I'll have to agree with completely, it will take a very long time to train up to fly a Titan, but no longer than it took the guy ahead of you to do it. (in fact, its easier now)
And eventually, you will catch up, because the Titan pilot can't train any more on that ship. He might be flying 3 other ships that you can't, but that doesn't make him better and you non-competitive
In fact, as a pirate player I'll bet you have a killboard list that might rival that of many Capital pilots.
A year or so back I recall this one pirate corp that camped this space lane that lead to my corps home mining systems and all of their members had literally 100 or more kills a month on their KB's.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EVE is a game of insanely diminishing returns, both in terms of items and skills. For a particular role you can train all the core skills, the necessities in a few months, at that point it doesn't matter how long you play the difference will not be THAT great. The difference between a module of a million and a rare one of the same type for 100 million is not THAT great. The differences are counted in more then one decimal place much of the time!
It's more about the actual experience with fits and strategies, resources and flexibility for the long-timers as an advantage, not their character SP development per se. In short, sure the the veteran will always have the edge, but it will NEVER be like WoW wherein a lvl 70 player kills the lvl 30 player with one shot and he CANNOT touch him. In many ways EVE is fairer then many other MMOs. If you fly a suitable vessel for the situation, with some guile, you stand a chance.
The level cap is 80 now, in case you didn't know. Also, it doesn't take 3 years to catch up to a level 80 player in terms of skill or gear (more like 3 months). Good bye.
Comments
What?
You mean that I can't join this game...play for 6 months, and be just as skilled (player and character) as another character that's 5 years in?!?!
Players that have been playing longer are (generally) going to have more money, friends, assets, and (character) skill than me?!?!?
I can't train to be the best trader, PvPer, miner, PvE missioner, etc all at the same time?!?!?
I can't drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew and stay up for 8 weeks straight to become the leetest, epic'd out, pewpew wtfpwner of all of EvE history?!?!?
Man, this game sucks. You should be able to power-level (?) to max competitiveness, attain all epic’d out purples, and wtfleetroflmaogtfopewpewpwn all the noobs in 3 months max!
Sigh. I wish they made a game like that...
Actually, smart@55, I said be competitive. Not wipe everyone out in anything you try to do. At least you admit it, thank you. That is all I have been after; give the new guys some realistic expectations. Some of these guys lure new players in with the expectation that they're gonna pirate in nulsec or 'run with the big boys' in short order and it isn't so.
What does “be competitive” mean? The way you described it sounded very much like flying around and dominating everything (PvP, PvE, trade, industry, etc). Your notion of “running with the big boys” is very much a WoW-type thought process that has no place in EvE. What do you mean by “big boys”? People in big ships? I’m sure you can find plenty of asshats flying big ships that bought their EvE characters and have no idea what they’re doing. I guess you can fly around with them, if it makes you feel better to see big ships, but it’s not going to get you very far.
T1 can certainly “be competitive” in low or null sec, and achieve way more than a few kills, if they play smart and use sound tactics. Are you going to fly around in your T1 frig and wipe the floor with well equipped and skilled (player and character) battleships? No. But you sure as hell can pick a target from the plethora of uninformed players that follow advice like yours, and buy characters that can fly ships and use modules they have no clue how to operate effectively.
A new player could also do a little research and find a pirate corp that accepts new players, at which point they can certainly pirate null sec in a gang of experienced PvPers (and not simply be cannon fodder). Here are links to two such corps:
Blood Money Cartel http://www.bloodmoneycartel.net/forum/index.php?sid=c1ac698c8198c09b4bd810c4fac7b520
The Tuskers
http://tuskers.eve-gamers.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=22&sid=8f4d05e2020a77d83814fe80afbfe02e
No, all things being equal, a new player will be unlikely to achieve the skill (player and character), ISK and assets of another player who started playing years before them, in 6 months time. But EvE isn’t about max-level, or being epic’d out. It’s about building your own name doing something that you enjoy, and doing it well. Are there always going to be those that are better than you? Probably. Why is that a bad thing? If nothing else, it means you’ll always have something else to improve on.
By competitive I mean your personal skills can make up for the difference in gear. I mean you have a relatively decent chance on a regular basis to come out on top. It's tough to measure it directly since few battles are 1 v 1 in nulsec (at least for very long).
I never said anything about max-level or 'epic'd out' to use your vernacular. You are imposing your own WoW comparisons. I have played most MMO's since they first became a genre that technology could allow, so Wow is merely a fad or one milestone to me; not the end-all measuring stick.
By 'big boys' I refer to a corp that operates in nulsec with it's own territory and under constant probes and attacks. Can you go out there as a low skill pilot? Sure, with their protection and whatnot. Are you competitive? Nope, not typically. Can you contribute? Sure. I went out my first time and based out of nulsec as a 1.9M SP pilot. I tackled, I threw mining lasers on my pew pew ship, I donned a cloaking device and played sentry or scanned out stuff. Whatever. It was fun. But I couldn't stand toe to toe with a nanoHAC, no way. I tried. I helped tackle stuff, but tackling doesn't really work on some stuff, obviously. No way in h*ll am I gonna stick all my SP into tackling, either.
As I said, I personally don't play tons of Eve just because I am a jack of all trades and being pigeon holed to get to a competitive level in ONE thing quickly doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.
I feel I have made my point and defended my logic. Yours may be different, but it's ultimately opinion vs. opinion. I see no need to continue past this to the point of arguing; it just makes everyone look foolish and petty. Peace out.
Your statement is false. I've been playing for about 5 to 6 months now and I don't agree. I know many who think the same. Best way for me to describe it would be: "sufficient". There isn't anything better so I play Eve. This does not make me happy. It makes me quite sad. Depressed even.
We need more competition in the MMO market to push the level of quality and innovation to new limits. Take Eve for example, the competition is almost non-existent and feeble at best. Eve is definately where it is now not only because of its merits, but because the competition is very, very weak.
Sorry for going off-topic.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Your statement is false. I've been playing for about 5 to 6 months now and I don't agree. I know many who think the same. Best way for me to describe it would be: "sufficient". There isn't anything better so I play Eve. This does not make me happy. It makes me quite sad. Depressed even.
We need more competition in the MMO market to push the level of quality and innovation to new limits. Take Eve for example, the competition is almost non-existent and feeble at best. Eve is definately where it is now not only because of its merits, but because the competition is very, very weak.
Sorry for going off-topic.
Why dont you give Darkfall a shot. You might like it.
Why dont you give Darkfall a shot. You might like it.
I know I should... atleast to know how it is. To be honest, in the light what what is said about it, it doesn't look all that promising.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Your statement is false. I've been playing for about 5 to 6 months now and I don't agree. I know many who think the same. Best way for me to describe it would be: "sufficient". There isn't anything better so I play Eve. This does not make me happy. It makes me quite sad. Depressed even.
We need more competition in the MMO market to push the level of quality and innovation to new limits. Take Eve for example, the competition is almost non-existent and feeble at best. Eve is definately where it is now not only because of its merits, but because the competition is very, very weak.
Sorry for going off-topic.
Well, I'm not sure what you're currently doing in EVE at the 6 month mark, but I've found that changing what I'm doing on a regular basis keeps the game fresh.
I started out the first 3-5 months like many running missions and earning enough ISK and Skills to fly a BS and Stealth bomber. I then went out to 0.0 and ran with a Steath corp for a about 6 months learning how to lose Ravens to ceptor gangs and eventually busting POS's ad nauseum in an armor tanked Raven fleet during the BOB wars. (oh yeah, our alliance FREGE lost its home systems during the process so we switched over to IRON and continued onwards.
Got tired of that, went back to empire, ran missions for a bit to regroup, then joined an Empire based corp which grew quite large and promptly became the regular targets of several merc corps who enjoyed fighting us because we were fun. (we fought back). After about 6 months of campaigns, I went back out to 0.0 with a couple of different alliances, mostly ratting ores and running home defense when necessary. Got to see the end of a hated rival (Smash/Road-Kill) only to have my own crushed once again by the Goonswarm (our former allies).
Back to empire, more ratting, decided it was time to learn about wormholes, spent about 4 months living the life, now have returned to empire and am exploring low sec/0.0 in my stealth Tengu.
Not sure what will be next on my plate, I'll just sort of hang out and see what turns up.
Point of all this text? EVE is what you make of it, if you find you are bored, go find something else to do. (but not mining, never that, perish the thought)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I wouldn't make a statement like I did without knowing I have done pretty much 90% of what there is to do in Eve (yes, even mining), but I see your point. I guess there is still high-level wormholes, high-level complexes, lvl5 missions and more 0.0 action to be had. I have been fortunate to land on a very active and very diverse corp which has moved on from high-sec wars, to low-sec and 0.0. The 0.0 is quite new to me but not that much different from the other activities imo. Significantly better than the rest, I agree - but not that different.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Strange, I was just thinking about someone who complained about not being able to catch up the other day. I tried to imagine how someone could even think this. The only word to describe that mentality is ignorance. I do not mean the word ignorance to be an insult at all: literally it is a lack of knowledge. I run 5 accounts, one does combat for missions, the other is an industrial miner/builder, yet another is an explorer. I never feel as though I can't 'catch up' to one of the people who've played since launch at all.
Let us use WoW for a moment... You create a character. You roll the toon to 80 and gear up. At that point do you ever sit around thinking to yourself...'Man I'll never catch up to the first person who got to 80 on this server!'? Hellz no you don't. You don't even care who made it to 80 first. You are too busy having fun. Get in your ship. Start your skills training. Do something and then someone else will be 'behind you' trying to 'catch up' to you. You only become something in EVE if you try >:P~
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me this argument come from people feeling superior because they grind 20 + hours a day. It's not about catching up, it's about being able to pwn the people that start when you do and catching up. " I play more and have better stuff so I’m better, and I don't want to play a game that doesn't let me be better". It's an illusion and a character flaw I would say.
And you are absolutely right, EVE's complexity makes the argument pointless. Even the people that have "caught up" face just as many dangers and hardships as those just starting out.
If your waiting to catch up and be elite in this game it isn't going to happen.
You're actually trying to make a point about catching up while admitting to having 5 accounts? So many characters specialized in different roles will of course provide you with a sort of skillpoint "equivalent" to a character who's been playing for many years. What you've done is essentially achieve a five times faster skill training rate, assuming all characters are focusing on seperate skillsets.
However, most people in their right mind are not willing to pay $75 a month to reach some degree of equality, not to mention the fact that this game was never designed around having alts (I can see two accounts being reasonable, but anything above is certainly out of the norm).
If you insist on using World of Warcraft comparisons, please stick to the limitations of using ONE account per game. All your post did was prove that you better have several accounts in EVE to become competitive, and this is CERTAINLY not the case in World of Warcraft or any other MMO I can think of.
Only reason I have had multiple accounts in eve was because there is so much cool stuff to try out!
Industrialist, small ship specialist, explorer/ prober, covert ops specialist, capital ship specialist, etc...
Don't get me wrong, there are situations where having an alt and multiboxing is very convenient but they really have nothing whatsoever to do with "catching up."
Er, well, that's not entirely true. If you wish to have characters of every class, it will take you considerable time to get them, just like it does in EVE. I don't see much difference.
I've got an account that is 2.5 years old, and he most definitely has "caught up." Does that mean that he can mine, or fly a Capitol ship? Nope, but sure can fly a couple dozen ship hulls and soon will be able to fire every gun or missile in the game for ships up through Mauraders.
Now if you are expecting to be able to do everything in EVE on one account at least make a fair comparison to a game with WOW where you would have to level up a character in every race on both sides of the faction war. (and don't forget to level up every crafting and gathering skill on the way.
You're right, few people do this in WOW, they focus on what they enjoy, same thing with EVE.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Friend I have a concept for you to put in your (hopefully peace) pipe and smoke upon... Not only do I not pay 75$ a month for my 5 accounts: I pay ZERO dollars a month to play EVE. This game is played for absolutely free because I use my characters to generate enough ISK to buy PLEXes for them all. WoW would never allow such a game mechanic. EVE has no comparison. Time invested in the game means you have abilities to play with in the game. If you never start because you are worried about catching up... well you never will catch the point of playing at all. Entertainment. Whether you like this game or not is a matter of taste. To me that taste is savory freedom.
I don't think you "get" eve.
Your character is just an asset, just like your ship or even game time is (I play 8 accounts without paying a dime, I could easily fund an account for 30 years). Saying you can't ever "catch up" is like saying you won't ever get that best sword in an mmo because you don't play enough.
Sure, you can't without hard work, because you damn well know '03 characters have spend 1000+ hours in eve to get there (reputation is just as meaningful as skillpoints in eve).
Want to catch up? here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=channel&channelID=734105
So again, to drive the point accross, Eve isn't like other games. Your character is only an asset, you can easily upgrade it by paying for your account and buying skills, or saving up lots of isk and simply buying a new one. Your account is just an asset that takes 275m a month to run. If you have lots of isk, you can buy more accounts just like you can buy a shiny new ship.
People need to stop looking at eve like other MMOs. Eve online is based on an economic model not entirely unlike our own in the fact that you can buy everything with enough isk. Look at eve online through hyper capitalist eyes or not at all, that's how you need to see it to understand the game. (It's not a hard concept to grasp, we don't have guilds but "corporations" ffs.)
I enjoyed your post, and it made many good points.
This line is particularly funny though, don't you think?
(image in my head of a guy spending hours online thinking "god I hate this shit" lol)
And sadly, at any given moment in time there is someone running the same raid duingeon that they have been running for the past month... thinking exactly that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
My response to the original post in this thread:
Analogizing EVE with maxed-out characters in a fantasy MMORPG is a semi-decent way to show people how "you really can catch up"... but EVE is different from fantasy MMORPGs in one key way: While fantasy MMORPGs invariably have "classes" that are more-or-less equally powerful and balanced once they reach "max level," in EVE ships are most definitely not created equal.
In a very real sense, your analogy is misleading. A new player can't "catch up" to a mothership pilot with maxed-out skills in three months. They can get a bunch of T2 frigate skills up to level 4 (maybe a few 5s) in six months, but that frigate can't dream of going head-to-head with a mothership in combat, nor contributing as much to a fleet battle, etc.
Yeah yeah, I know, no EVE ship is all-powerful and they all have different roles to play... but a mothership is still better by far than any T2 frigate. Yes, it has a specific role to play, but it's still a far more precious and powerful asset.
If it weren't better than a T2 frigate, everyone would just fly around in T2 frigates, since those are cheaper.
The fact of the matter is, you can only "catch up" in less than one real-life year if you aim fairly low as far as which ships you'll want to be flying. If you want to fly a mothership, it's going to take you at least a couple of years to "catch up"... and while you're skilling up to fly it, your choice of other activities in EVE will be a bit limited (to combat) unless you pay for multiple accounts.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Your entire argument seems to be based on a familiarity with mainstream Diku-style MMOs, which has nothing to do with how EVE works. It also seems to indicate you are under the impression that people who can fly motherships are flying motherships. You'd probably be surprised at how many people have been playing for years and probably could have trained for capital ships but simply had absolutely no need to fly one.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
But now you're making an incorrect analogy, given a set period of time, a new player could train up the skills to fly a Supercarrier (Motherships no longer exist) and they would be able to fly head to head against that veteran, because in all that time (even if it took 2 years to train) the veteran could gain no additional skills to help him (or her) fly that Supercarrier any better.
He might go on to train up Dreadnaughts of another race, but they serve a different role and the veteran isn't really any more powerful, just more versatile.
I've been playing EVE for 2.5 years now, and while I could have trained up for a Capital ships like a Super Carrier, I'm not willing to fight in the sort of fleet engagments they typically get involved in, and while they are pretty tough, many a Capital has been killed by a horde of smaller ships if it happened to get caught in the wrong place/time without proper fleet support
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm perfectly aware of how EVE "works." I played regularly for almost two years, and immensely enjoyed my later career as a pirate in the Applied Eugenics corporation.
In response to your statement, I offer another statement: There are motherships in EVE Online. These motherships are piloted by EVE players. The fact that not everyone needs or desires to pilot a mothership is irrelevant to my point, as is the fact that motherships and titans are considered to be alliance assets.
If someone aspires to pilot one of the most powerful ships in the game (this is not limited to motherships or titans), it's going to take them an exceedingly long time to reach their goal.
This thread is based on the premise that older players don't keep accumulating more and more personal power for their characters; instead, they learn a wider variety of skills, allowing them to pilot a wider variety of ships and accomplish more things within the game (the analogy made by the OP re: character classes in fantasy MMORPGs).
That's true, but it's misleading since, indeed, EVE does in fact have "super characters" (titanic ships with huge skill requirements and equipment that's far more expensive than the ship itself). So if someone's idea of "catching up" means having a very powerful ship (like having a very powerful fantasy MMO character), yes, it's going to take them a long time.
EDIT: Apparently motherships have been replaced by supercarriers? Yeah, I've been out of the loop for a while. BoB and the Goons are gone too, what's the world coming to?
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
I'm perfectly aware of how EVE "works." I played regularly for almost two years, and immensely enjoyed my later career as a pirate in the Applied Eugenics corporation.
In response to your statement, I offer another statement: There are motherships in EVE Online. These motherships are piloted by EVE players. The fact that not everyone needs or desires to pilot a mothership is irrelevant to my point, as is the fact that motherships and titans are considered to be alliance assets.
If someone aspires to pilot one of the most powerful ships in the game (this is not limited to motherships or titans), it's going to take them an exceedingly long time to reach their goal.
This thread is based on the premise that older players don't keep accumulating more and more personal power for their characters; instead, they learn a wider variety of skills, allowing them to pilot a wider variety of ships and accomplish more things within the game (the analogy made by the OP re: character classes in fantasy MMORPGs).
That's true, but it's misleading since, indeed, EVE does in fact have "super characters" (titanic ships with huge skill requirements and equipment that's far more expensive than the ship itself). So if someone's idea of "catching up" means having a very powerful ship (like having a very powerful fantasy MMO character), yes, it's going to take them a long time.
EDIT: Apparently motherships have been replaced by supercarriers? Yeah, I've been out of the loop for a while. BoB and the Goons are gone too, what's the world coming to?
If it’s a choice between playing a game where I’m maxed-out in three month, then have to start a new but different class character so I can play the same game again, or playing a game where I can play one character and progress almost indefinitely, that seems like a pretty easy choice to me.
Also older player quit regularly (just ask the goons) so catching up in terms of skill points is very possible.
In name only.
This shows nothing, in Eve, there is a huge difference between being fitted in a ship for PvP and PvE. That 100 million SP character was flying a T1 Battleship, most likely with PvE fittings, if he was flying a T2 Battlecruiser, or even T3 Cruiser, then he would have most likely blown that Deimos out of the water (space?).
I know what you are going to say, yes player skill matters, but that is true for most of any game. Difference is that character skill and equipment matters just as much in Eve and there is no way you gonna tell me that a 100 mil SP character, trained for PvP, would not have a advantage over a 20 mil SP one.
The difference becomes even larger when you think about a 3-4 mil SP character, which can only fly T1 ships and T1 modules against a 20 mil SP in a T2 ship and decked out in all T2 fittings.
Also it is quite ironic that you say that you dont need to train up but only the right tool. What tool you can and you cannot use is directly decided by your skills, which you DO need to train up for.
Excuse me ladies and/or (have to be completely PC these days don't we?) gentlemen... Not all your skills are used for one thing. A good portion of the 100 mil SP characters' skills have nothing at all to do with PVP. He has industry skills which help him manufacture and research, he has mining skills which help him gather materials, He has exploration skills which help him find uncommon materials and so forth. Yes a 20 mil SP character who is focused on PVP stands a good chance against a 100 mil SP player.
Now this I'll have to agree with completely, it will take a very long time to train up to fly a Titan, but no longer than it took the guy ahead of you to do it. (in fact, its easier now)
And eventually, you will catch up, because the Titan pilot can't train any more on that ship. He might be flying 3 other ships that you can't, but that doesn't make him better and you non-competitive
In fact, as a pirate player I'll bet you have a killboard list that might rival that of many Capital pilots.
A year or so back I recall this one pirate corp that camped this space lane that lead to my corps home mining systems and all of their members had literally 100 or more kills a month on their KB's.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EVE is a game of insanely diminishing returns, both in terms of items and skills. For a particular role you can train all the core skills, the necessities in a few months, at that point it doesn't matter how long you play the difference will not be THAT great. The difference between a module of a million and a rare one of the same type for 100 million is not THAT great. The differences are counted in more then one decimal place much of the time!
It's more about the actual experience with fits and strategies, resources and flexibility for the long-timers as an advantage, not their character SP development per se. In short, sure the the veteran will always have the edge, but it will NEVER be like WoW wherein a lvl 70 player kills the lvl 30 player with one shot and he CANNOT touch him. In many ways EVE is fairer then many other MMOs. If you fly a suitable vessel for the situation, with some guile, you stand a chance.
- Shijeer
The level cap is 80 now, in case you didn't know. Also, it doesn't take 3 years to catch up to a level 80 player in terms of skill or gear (more like 3 months). Good bye.
You went out of your way to miss the point as completely as possible, didn't you?