I always love how, in threads like this, when anyone suggests moderation, you always have the people coming out of the woodwork screaming "we are hardcore, we are pathetic, we have no lives!" like it's something to be proud of. In all likelihood, the OP is entirely correct, MMOs are best played 1-3 hours a day, a couple of days a week. They are not a substitute for real life, they are a hobby, nothing more. Now try telling that to the losers who live vicariously through online games.
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
I suppose I have to give that to you. As long as the individual can take care of themselves, take care of their responsibilities (especially if there are children/pets in their lives) and can plan for their future, feed themselves, etc, then it shouldn't really matter.
I can't say that I look on in envy of my friends and acquaintences who have more tradtitional lives.
Personally I do think people should know people in their own area as I find such personal relationships to be important but spending 8 hours per day on a video game and not bothering anyone else and not shirking your responsibilities is no worse, in my opinion, than driving your kids to soccer and whatever else they need, doing your reports the night before your big meeting and catching 30 minutues of lettermen before you hit the hay.
In the end it comes down to what you like or value.
But again, as long as one can take care of themselves, take care of responsibilities and insure that they are not going to be a 75 year old working at an entry level job to make ends meet.
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I always love how, in threads like this, when anyone suggests moderation, you always have the people coming out of the woodwork screaming "we are hardcore, we are pathetic, we have no lives!" like it's something to be proud of. In all likelihood, the OP is entirely correct, MMOs are best played 1-3 hours a day, a couple of days a week. They are not a substitute for real life, they are a hobby, nothing more. Now try telling that to the losers who live vicariously through online games.
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
I agree with this statement, in the sense that I wouldn't have gotten anywhere either had I played FFXI for 1-3 hrs. It seems most posters in this thread agree that "games now days are meant to be played 1-3 hrs", my question is, does that mean you think the days of games like FFXI, which require significantly more than 1-3 hrs. are pretty much over?
I agree with some posters that when you make an mmo you need alot of content. Many games arent putting enough content in or not putting enough content in fast enough but.....beware for those of you who have nothing better to do than play games all day: you may get bored quickly! I personally moderate my game time as I have family, work , and friends which is far more important than playing games. Games are menat to be enjoyable and fun. Some people have lost that touch or feeling.
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All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
I do most of my playing on the weekends, so whether I take it in 2 hours or 4 hours (with a break or two) it doesn't matter. I just think the problem with some developers is their constant dependence on the same execution or game mechanics for their titles, not so much the sheer quantity of gameplay time. When it seems that there's no real difference between WoW and STO (hint: there is none), then that's when people get pissed off and simply stop playing altogether. Or at least go back to playing their favorite single player titles (which oddly are more imaginative and unique in game mechanics than MMOs are most of the time).
I always love how, in threads like this, when anyone suggests moderation, you always have the people coming out of the woodwork screaming "we are hardcore, we are pathetic, we have no lives!" like it's something to be proud of. In all likelihood, the OP is entirely correct, MMOs are best played 1-3 hours a day, a couple of days a week. They are not a substitute for real life, they are a hobby, nothing more. Now try telling that to the losers who live vicariously through online games.
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
It's definitely arguable to say gaming is a way of life. Even if we all agreed that gaming is a way of life, it's not a worthy way of life. It's shallow and meaningless. In a world where people are measured by how they contribute to society, as they should, caring about what society thinks should matter. Caring about what society thinks is what drives politicians to make one decision over the next, or the Supreme Court in passing a new law, ammending others, and granting appeals. What society thinks is a huge driving force in our world, and anyone that doesn't consider it is out of touch with reality, which is a problem the "gamer way of life" brings.
So basically, people who spend their life gaming at the expense of their health and all other things are worthless to society. Since they're worthless to society, they can't complain if society looks down on them, and treats them like outcasts. That kind of anti-social behavior gets you no where in life.
Huh. This is one of the few times that I've read a thread and agreed with it 100%. 20 hours a week is about right; I can't imagine how people can possibly expend 40, 60, even 80 hours a week playing an MMO. No slight intended against the "hardcore" crowd, but you've gotta be neglecting other elements of your life to be able to play that much.
that and it completely burns you out on this genre making every game seem like garbage.
This, in my opinion, is MMO enlightenment. Once people figure this out, they begin to enjoy the genre again. I don't know how many years I played MMO's obsessively before I learned this. I played over 20 P2P MMO's over the past 8 years, and was only happy with 3 of them long enough to get a max leveled character. That's because I was indoctronated to believe MMO's must be one way, but was seeing it another way for several years after I finished DAoC and SWG.
What I learned on top of healthy gaming habits, is that MMO's shouldn't be judged any different than any other game. When it comes down to games, the driving force to pay money for them is the expectation to receive equal value of fun back. If a single player game is fun and lasts a week, yet costs $60 a pop, why is it a MMO that is fun for 1 month, and costs $50 a pop isn't worth the money? That's a contradiction that MMO fanatics are blind to, and should realize that a game is a game, and fun is fun. Genre's change, as does games and their features. As humans, our greatest trait is adaptability, but you see such a lack of adaptability from the community in the MMO genre. Well, I've woken up and have learned to adapt. Now MMO's are fun again, even those that only last a few months at most. When is everyone else going to wake up?
The heart of this topic is hardcore vs casual. There will always be large playtime differences in players of an MMO, some people will play a lot, some very little. Neither is more correct or right over the other, its personal choice.
poster 32 it used to be like tthat but when game maker like perfect world make perfect world on par graphicly with any AAA title
i begin to question this idea.hell im not even talking with their futur game GRAND MUNDO this year .(dont know if it will still be f2p outside asia!but i dont believe it will from the look of it!)so im sorry but p2p game have to work twice as hard as f2p game
to justify their price!now the tactic they have been using is hide everything when they buy they ll see!but its backfiring on themselves because once your name is scrap because of not being honest in the view of game its done!ask any
game maker that scrapped their name its very hard to come back !oh you will have sold this game ,but no mather the positive you bring in your futur title your company is branded!the only you ll get gamer in your next title is has a f2p title !thats what lot of game maker face !i feel sorry for them but they got only themselves to blame!
Making up number of hours played per day is pointless. E.g. there are days where I can't play even for 10 minutes and there are these days where i dont wanna play even though i have a few hours to spare. It's more appropriate to consider hours played per week which can also vary depending on different stuff going on. I can't see how anyone can afford to play more than 20 hours a week. I mean seriously dont you go to school/uni/work? 20 hours is also a bit of an overkill having in mind that school/uni/work is not the only thing you have to take in mind. Watching movies, listening to music, physical exercises, hanging out with friends... where do these go? Atm for me it's like > 15 hours a week - college 20 hours or so - study time 20 hours > part-time job reading mmorpg.com ( no idea why i do it tbh ;D) > 2-3 hours a week, no gaming mostly watching movies + hanging out with friends, societies, sports clubs - rest You also maybe have to consider how much time you sleep a day. I usually don't ned more than 7-8 hours tops.
I'm gonna have to agree with this. For me I no longer have time to play MMOs since I'm doing engineering in college. And when I get those few hours of spare time on the week days, I would rather play a game or two of Men of War or Heroes of Newerth instead of blowing the time on an MMO. Then the weekend comes along and I would rather spend my time going out with friends and meeting new people than sitting in a room alone on a game.
I have to agree, for people to be playing "hardcore", you HAVE to be giving something up in your life. And I think people take it the wrong way when they hear people tell them "You have no life". What they mean is that you have no social life. Seriously, to be playing games that much there's no way you can get much out of a social life...unless you're some bum with nothing to do but play games and hang out with friends.
I had a reply ready on the same topic at STO forums but this will be better place to post. The problem is elsewhere, I think.
Here is the issue: How do you measure amount of content?
This is not easy to answer. You can have a game that takes hundreds of hours to reach end but does that mean it has more content? I am quite sure it does not. The same way you can have game with lots of content and achieve the cap in very short amount of time.
Fact is, extreme actions bear extreme results and you can expect extreme consequencies
I'm actually excited to post on this website for a change. We, as a whole, are actually starting to get somewhere with MMO Psychology. However, you'll have to elaborate, because I don't understand what your point is.
So how do you measure content? Well, you subtract the grind elements from each block of content, and then time how long it takes to complete each block of content available in the game. A block of content could be called a quest, group quest, instance, battleground, raid, and so on. Developer's have a tendency to make some things grind heavy to make those blocks of content last longer than they should, such as having to kill 20 wolves to get 4 wolf claws, when you know damn sure that each wolf has at least 4 claws. Content doesn't stop being content once level cap is reached. In fact, if the game is centered on completing content, then reaching max level shouldn't be the goal to begin with for players.
So one game that lasts 100 hours, but that entire 100 hours is fun, is better than the game that takes 400 hours, but 300 of those hours is all mind-numbing grind.
I always love how, in threads like this, when anyone suggests moderation, you always have the people coming out of the woodwork screaming "we are hardcore, we are pathetic, we have no lives!" like it's something to be proud of. In all likelihood, the OP is entirely correct, MMOs are best played 1-3 hours a day, a couple of days a week. They are not a substitute for real life, they are a hobby, nothing more. Now try telling that to the losers who live vicariously through online games.
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
It's definitely arguable to say gaming is a way of life. Even if we all agreed that gaming is a way of life, it's not a worthy way of life. It's shallow and meaningless. In a world where people are measured by how they contribute to society, as they should, caring about what society thinks should matter. Caring about what society thinks is what drives politicians to make one decision over the next, or the Supreme Court in passing a new law, ammending others, and granting appeals. What society thinks is a huge driving force in our world, and anyone that doesn't consider it is out of touch with reality, which is a problem the "gamer way of life" brings.
So basically, people who spend their life gaming at the expense of their health and all other things are worthless to society. Since they're worthless to society, they can't complain if society looks down on them, and treats them like outcasts. That kind of anti-social behavior gets you no where in life.
I've never really been a group over the individual type of person because the group, in the end is made up of individuals. Chances are that at some point some part of that group will be sacrificed for the greater good and I'm pretty sure that no one wants to have what they hold dear sacrificed.
Also, even though you say that gaming a meaningless I would have to argue that this in the end is subjective.
Truth be told, I think that going to an 8 hour a day job and having a family is pretty meaningless. Of course, many of us (myself included) must work to live but all the trappings of 2 cars in the garage and a chicken in every pot seems horrid to me.
I believe people can contribute to society in their own way. Even if that way is small. I just don't like and can't subscribe to the idea that in order to be meaningful you have to do it "my way" or it's the highway.
I would much rather have a society of hardcore gamers who lead their lives and leave everyone alone as opposed to a person who declares that their way is the best and forces others to comply or marginalizes a group because that group doesn't fit their definition of worthy.
Because where does it end?
Let's face it, most of us dont' contribute to society iin a meaningful way. Especially when you then start to wonder what that means.
Going to work and paying taxes and providing jobs for an area might be meaningful but someone else could easily argue that helping the poor and down trodden and supplying food and medicines for the needy is far more meaningful.
the sister of a friend of mine does just that. She travles all over the world to impoverished countries and builds shelters, organizes supplies and essentially fights the good fight because she believes that no human being should go without.
It would be hard to say that the average white collar businessman has a more meaningful life.
The hardcore gamer who helps an old lady walk over an icy patch so that she doesn't get hurt or who recycles their plastics is contributing to society in their own way. And heck if they are paying taxes (which most likely they are) then they are paying their share.
Any society that dictates how another should live their life is not a very worthy society.
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I guess it depends on who is doing the complaining.
In every mmo there is a small percentage of players who go to great lengths to be the first person to reach level cap. Sometimes they play 24/7. Sometimes they use the beta to figure out the fastest progression path. Sometimes they actually have teams of players who take turns playing a character, or supporting that character, or both. So if one of those folks are complaining, pffffft.
But if fairly ordinary players are already out of things to do in a game that launched this recently, well, that's not good.
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Sorry but that's stupid why should people play it only 1-3 hours a day just because the devs didn't create a big game? It's not people's fault that games nowadays are becoming shorter and/or incomplete.
Its also not game company's faults that people everywhere don't know how to take things in moderation. Playing something for 5, 6, hell even 8 hours plus a day then complaining when you beat it is also silly.
Don't worry, when some of you grow up and realize you spent more time playing a videogame as most people WORK per week, you'll come to regret all the time you've essentially thrown into a big black hole=) Your childhood memories or college memories will exist of videogame fantasies because you'll barely be able to tell the difference between time spent gaming and time spent living. But don't worry, the odds of you having anyone else to share those memories with is probably zippo anyway, hehe. How could you have a relationship with someone if 1/2 of your waking hours are spent glued to a KB or controller? j/k
That's so true. When these people, living their "gamer way of life" gets to the age where their physical and mental reflexes are not good enough to play games, or to the age where they've played out every scenario imaginable in a game, and no new game is entertaining, they'll finally see the value of a healthy social life. Friends, family, and community involvement offers a better quality of life than a "gamer way of life" ever can. When that "gamer way of life" follower finally ends up on their death bed, they'll be alone.
The point being, playing games as a hobby is all well and good, but it shouldn't be your life. I mean, I can see some days where people can afford 5-8 hours for gaming, and then others where they can only play a few due to real life friends, family, and community obligations, but 5-8 hours a day is a sign that the person has nothing else going on in their life.
Sorry but that's stupid why should people play it only 1-3 hours a day just because the devs didn't create a big game? It's not people's fault that games nowadays are becoming shorter and/or incomplete.
Its also not game company's faults that people everywhere don't know how to take things in moderation. Playing something for 5, 6, hell even 8 hours plus a day then complaining when you beat it is also silly.
Yes it's the game's company fault when in sto there's only 1 path to do to reach cap which is also very easy to reach and fast. There's no altrenatives you will go from if you ever wanted to make an alt you will have to go from the same places and do same quests unlike most mmos were you have more then 1 starting zone with each their places and lore.
I always love how, in threads like this, when anyone suggests moderation, you always have the people coming out of the woodwork screaming "we are hardcore, we are pathetic, we have no lives!" like it's something to be proud of. In all likelihood, the OP is entirely correct, MMOs are best played 1-3 hours a day, a couple of days a week. They are not a substitute for real life, they are a hobby, nothing more. Now try telling that to the losers who live vicariously through online games.
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
I agree with this statement, in the sense that I wouldn't have gotten anywhere either had I played FFXI for 1-3 hrs. It seems most posters in this thread agree that "games now days are meant to be played 1-3 hrs", my question is, does that mean you think the days of games like FFXI, which require significantly more than 1-3 hrs. are pretty much over?
I think they're over. Game addicts are getting too much media attention for companies to risk being labeled as promoting game addiction. So a good company will keep the time committment per day down, so that they don't risk bad PR. Also, hardcore gamers are in the minority, and game company's these days are catering towards the masses.
Don't worry, when some of you grow up and realize you spent more time playing a videogame as most people WORK per week, you'll come to regret all the time you've essentially thrown into a big black hole=) Your childhood memories or college memories will exist of videogame fantasies because you'll barely be able to tell the difference between time spent gaming and time spent living. But don't worry, the odds of you having anyone else to share those memories with is probably zippo anyway, hehe. How could you have a relationship with someone if 1/2 of your waking hours are spent glued to a KB or controller? j/k
That's so true. When these people, living their "gamer way of life" gets to the age where their physical and mental reflexes are not good enough to play games, or to the age where they've played out every scenario imaginable in a game, and no new game is entertaining, they'll finally see the value of a healthy social life. Friends, family, and community involvement offers a better quality of life than a "gamer way of life" ever can. When that "gamer way of life" follower finally ends up on their death bed, they'll be alone.
The point being, playing games as a hobby is all well and good, but it shouldn't be your life. I mean, I can see some days where people can afford 5-8 hours for gaming, and then others where they can only play a few due to real life friends, family, and community obligations, but 5-8 hours a day is a sign that the person has nothing else going on in their life.
I'll be honest, I personally believe this.
However, there are people who are disabled and who really never get out. one can then say to them "well, tough, you have to find a way because you are not experiencing life the way it should be.
Of course this is an extreme example and of course we've all seen posts by people who have proclaimed that they can't make real life friends and can only make game friends.
While it's a shame that many people will never experience a strong healthy social life with people who life in their community I suppose one can say that wherever one finds solace is a decent place to be.
What I find sad are the myriad posts of people who claim that they had "in game" friends who were then betrayed by these friends. Of course, friends in real life might also betray you but it seems to me that there are people who are too ready to ascribe the word "friend" to anyone they meet in game without really knowing who that person is.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Don't worry, when some of you grow up and realize you spent more time playing a videogame as most people WORK per week, you'll come to regret all the time you've essentially thrown into a big black hole=) Your childhood memories or college memories will exist of videogame fantasies because you'll barely be able to tell the difference between time spent gaming and time spent living. But don't worry, the odds of you having anyone else to share those memories with is probably zippo anyway, hehe. How could you have a relationship with someone if 1/2 of your waking hours are spent glued to a KB or controller? j/k
That's so true. When these people, living their "gamer way of life" gets to the age where their physical and mental reflexes are not good enough to play games, or to the age where they've played out every scenario imaginable in a game, and no new game is entertaining, they'll finally see the value of a healthy social life. Friends, family, and community involvement offers a better quality of life than a "gamer way of life" ever can. When that "gamer way of life" follower finally ends up on their death bed, they'll be alone.
The point being, playing games as a hobby is all well and good, but it shouldn't be your life. I mean, I can see some days where people can afford 5-8 hours for gaming, and then others where they can only play a few due to real life friends, family, and community obligations, but 5-8 hours a day is a sign that the person has nothing else going on in their life.
Its all about time management, I used to play FFXI 6-8 hours a day work part time, was in a band, and went to church every sunday. I never watched TV, didn't have a GF, but I still had time to hang out with friends and play DnD on the weekends. I got like 6 hours of sleep every night but I did that for almost a year straight.
So you can still play videogames a lot and still have a social life if you really want to , you just have to give other things up.
I always love how, in threads like this, when anyone suggests moderation, you always have the people coming out of the woodwork screaming "we are hardcore, we are pathetic, we have no lives!" like it's something to be proud of. In all likelihood, the OP is entirely correct, MMOs are best played 1-3 hours a day, a couple of days a week. They are not a substitute for real life, they are a hobby, nothing more. Now try telling that to the losers who live vicariously through online games.
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
It's definitely arguable to say gaming is a way of life. Even if we all agreed that gaming is a way of life, it's not a worthy way of life. It's shallow and meaningless. In a world where people are measured by how they contribute to society, as they should, caring about what society thinks should matter. Caring about what society thinks is what drives politicians to make one decision over the next, or the Supreme Court in passing a new law, ammending others, and granting appeals. What society thinks is a huge driving force in our world, and anyone that doesn't consider it is out of touch with reality, which is a problem the "gamer way of life" brings.
So basically, people who spend their life gaming at the expense of their health and all other things are worthless to society. Since they're worthless to society, they can't complain if society looks down on them, and treats them like outcasts. That kind of anti-social behavior gets you no where in life.
I've never really been a group over the individual type of person because the group, in the end is made up of individuals. Chances are that at some point some part of that group will be sacrificed for the greater good and I'm pretty sure that no one wants to have what they hold dear sacrificed.
Also, even though you say that gaming a meaningless I would have to argue that this in the end is subjective.
Truth be told, I think that going to an 8 hour a day job and having a family is pretty meaningless. Of course, many of us (myself included) must work to live but all the trappings of 2 cars in the garage and a chicken in every pot seems horrid to me.
I believe people can contribute to society in their own way. Even if that way is small. I just don't like and can't subscribe to the idea that in order to be meaningful you have to do it "my way" or it's the highway.
I would much rather have a society of hardcore gamers who lead their lives and leave everyone alone as opposed to a person who declares that their way is the best and forces others to comply or marginalizes a group because that group doesn't fit their definition of worthy.
Because where does it end?
Let's face it, most of us dont' contribute to society iin a meaningful way. Especially when you then start to wonder what that means.
Going to work and paying taxes and providing jobs for an area might be meaningful but someone else could easily argue that helping the poor and down trodden and supplying food and medicines for the needy is far more meaningful.
the sister of a friend of mine does just that. She travles all over the world to impoverished countries and builds shelters, organizes supplies and essentially fights the good fight because she believes that no human being should go without.
It would be hard to say that the average white collar businessman has a more meaningful life.
The hardcore gamer who helps an old lady walk over an icy patch so that she doesn't get hurt or who recycles their plastics is contributing to society in their own way. And heck if they are paying taxes (which most likely they are) then they are paying their share.
Any society that dictates how another should live their life is not a very worthy society.
Yes, determining what is considered a meaningful life is a sticky subject. In my opinion, helping humanity grow and bettering humanities future is meaningful. An entire community that spends their entire life playing video games is not going to advance in medical, technology, engineering, or any other areas needed to better the future of our species. Luckily, this doesn't happen, but this just means we have some people leaching off the efforts of others.
A person has to take a side when it comes to this. There's no middle ground. A person has to have the courage to pick their way of life, and stick to it. I think most people in the world would agree that bettering ourselves and the future of our species is a meaningful life, while spending 20+ hours a week gaming is not. Everyone can contribute to society. Mostly by teaching others things that are worth a damn to know, so that they may collect good knowledge and wisdom, and pass it along to their descendents. So on and so forth, until our species finally creates a Utopia.
We, as a species, has came a long way over the millennia. Think of how far we'd be if everyone adopted the gamer life style in the beginning days. Caveman 1 throws a rock into a circle drawn into the dirst. Caveman 2 does likewise. Caveman 1 wins, because he got closer to the middle. All cavemen and women do this day in a day out, do not socialize with each other, thus do not populate the Earth. End result: Humans go extinct. In other words, a life dedicated to gaming is not a viable way of life. Sure, it's fun while it lasts, and possibly more fun in the short term than most things, but there's really no substance in it.
But yet work and play are two sides of the same coin.
To the OP's tune: I'd say MMORPG's are like anything in like: healthy in doses. I certainly agree that MMORPGs are mostly broken into parts that are easily digestable in smaller segments, but that obsessive personalities, and the nature of advancement pull individuals into spending more time than is healthy or intended.
It kind of makes reference to the whole argument about hardcores having no life. This is typically an argument done by casuals wishing they were hardcore in terms of advancement. Most hardcore don't spend more than a couple of hours a day but they accomplish through efficiency and *pacing*.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
There will always be people who will play all day everyday so that they can finish the game. Also, maybe if the mmo was more of an open world and less of a theme park it would take them alot longer to finish.
I always love how, in threads like this, when anyone suggests moderation, you always have the people coming out of the woodwork screaming "we are hardcore, we are pathetic, we have no lives!" like it's something to be proud of. In all likelihood, the OP is entirely correct, MMOs are best played 1-3 hours a day, a couple of days a week. They are not a substitute for real life, they are a hobby, nothing more. Now try telling that to the losers who live vicariously through online games.
And you know what? I don't consider anyone who plays an hour or two a day a gamer. If that's all the time you have to invest into a game then I suggest you pick up a Wii.
lmao....hahahha...bwhahaha...
I give your post a 10/10.
"Pfft....wannabe alcoholics, only drinking 2 drinks a day" When your about to pass...looking back at life....I'm sure you'll cherish those 80-hour gaming weeks....
I am not casting judgement on anyone but I will say that I find much of the talk about societal 'duty' somewhat amusing when the average American watches around 30 hours a week of television (according to various reports - and I believe the numbers are higher these days actually) and the hardcore mmorpg player shows a massive decrease in television hours that corresponds directly to playtime.
This playtime should also be acknowledged as somewhat 'interactive' as compared to television viewing and net surfing. I actually converse with real life friends online and much of the time see them out and about later at the gym for a pickup game or a bar. We talk in Vent about where we are going to meet to watch the game while killing orcs online.
I don't spend massive amounts of time in-game or in front of the tv but I can't fail to notice that it isn't really that much further out from the norm. Just don't make it sound as if the hardcore are that much worse than most folks sitting in front of the tube.
I always love how, in threads like this, when anyone suggests moderation, you always have the people coming out of the woodwork screaming "we are hardcore, we are pathetic, we have no lives!" like it's something to be proud of. In all likelihood, the OP is entirely correct, MMOs are best played 1-3 hours a day, a couple of days a week. They are not a substitute for real life, they are a hobby, nothing more. Now try telling that to the losers who live vicariously through online games.
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
It's definitely arguable to say gaming is a way of life. Even if we all agreed that gaming is a way of life, it's not a worthy way of life. It's shallow and meaningless. In a world where people are measured by how they contribute to society, as they should, caring about what society thinks should matter. Caring about what society thinks is what drives politicians to make one decision over the next, or the Supreme Court in passing a new law, ammending others, and granting appeals. What society thinks is a huge driving force in our world, and anyone that doesn't consider it is out of touch with reality, which is a problem the "gamer way of life" brings.
So basically, people who spend their life gaming at the expense of their health and all other things are worthless to society. Since they're worthless to society, they can't complain if society looks down on them, and treats them like outcasts. That kind of anti-social behavior gets you no where in life.
I've never really been a group over the individual type of person because the group, in the end is made up of individuals. Chances are that at some point some part of that group will be sacrificed for the greater good and I'm pretty sure that no one wants to have what they hold dear sacrificed.
Also, even though you say that gaming a meaningless I would have to argue that this in the end is subjective.
Truth be told, I think that going to an 8 hour a day job and having a family is pretty meaningless. Of course, many of us (myself included) must work to live but all the trappings of 2 cars in the garage and a chicken in every pot seems horrid to me.
I believe people can contribute to society in their own way. Even if that way is small. I just don't like and can't subscribe to the idea that in order to be meaningful you have to do it "my way" or it's the highway.
I would much rather have a society of hardcore gamers who lead their lives and leave everyone alone as opposed to a person who declares that their way is the best and forces others to comply or marginalizes a group because that group doesn't fit their definition of worthy.
Because where does it end?
Let's face it, most of us dont' contribute to society iin a meaningful way. Especially when you then start to wonder what that means.
Going to work and paying taxes and providing jobs for an area might be meaningful but someone else could easily argue that helping the poor and down trodden and supplying food and medicines for the needy is far more meaningful.
the sister of a friend of mine does just that. She travles all over the world to impoverished countries and builds shelters, organizes supplies and essentially fights the good fight because she believes that no human being should go without.
It would be hard to say that the average white collar businessman has a more meaningful life.
The hardcore gamer who helps an old lady walk over an icy patch so that she doesn't get hurt or who recycles their plastics is contributing to society in their own way. And heck if they are paying taxes (which most likely they are) then they are paying their share.
Any society that dictates how another should live their life is not a very worthy society.
Yes, determining what is considered a meaningful life is a sticky subject. In my opinion, helping humanity grow and bettering humanities future is meaningful. An entire community that spends their entire life playing video games is not going to advance in medical, technology, engineering, or any other areas needed to better the future of our species. Luckily, this doesn't happen, but this just means we have some people leaching off the efforts of others.
A person has to take a side when it comes to this. There's no middle ground. A person has to have the courage to pick their way of life, and stick to it. I think most people in the world would agree that bettering ourselves and the future of our species is a meaningful life, while spending 20+ hours a week gaming is not. Everyone can contribute to society. Mostly by teaching others things that are worth a damn to know, so that they may collect good knowledge and wisdom, and pass it along to their descendents. So on and so forth, until our species finally creates a Utopia.
We, as a species, has came a long way over the millennia. Think of how far we'd be if everyone adopted the gamer life style in the beginning days. Caveman 1 throws a rock into a circle drawn into the dirst. Caveman 2 does likewise. Caveman 1 wins, because he got closer to the middle. All cavemen and women do this day in a day out, do not socialize with each other, thus do not populate the Earth. End result: Humans go extinct. In other words, a life dedicated to gaming is not a viable way of life. Sure, it's fun while it lasts, and possibly more fun in the short term than most things, but there's really no substance in it.
Well, there's always going to be leechers. In this particular case, it's gaming. What if I considered the starving people of the world who we must constantly donate to as leechers? That's a far less popular view. Why? Either way, in the end, they're not contributing to society, right? While "hardcore" gaming is a choice, being poor or sick in Africa is not. But the end result is the same, isn't it? Perhaps those "hardcore" gamers should just be ignored, since there are billions of people on this planet, most of whom are willing to contribute. If you want to try to convince them that they should only play 1-3 hours a day, go ahead. Maybe a few will listen to you. But most won't.
I doubt there's such a thing as gaming "addiction". I think people choose how much they play and must deal with the consequences. Especially if they receive fair warning of what might happen if they go down that path (hardcore gaming). Some turn out okay and don't regret their choice while others end up depressed or with a self-inflicted bullet in their brain. Either way, the game company doesn't cast some evil spell on them, add some brain-altering chemical into the game, or do anything else that would cause addiction. People need to be responsible, aye?
I think serving God is a meaningful life, which means that I have to balance that with social activities and, of course, playing MMOs. Right now, I play right around 1-3 hours a day. But I can understand if someone chose to play more than that. It's their life. I take the same view on drugs: legalize them (because something illegal is going to be in higher demand and is going to attract more crime than something that is legal, nevermind the potential revenue if the U.S. started growing certain drugs) and let people do whatever they want to themselves. Even in today's society of moral degradation and "If it feels good, do it!" mentality, I think most people will choose to be responsible.
I am not casting judgement on anyone but I will say that I find much of the talk about societal 'duty' somewhat amusing when the average American watches around 30 hours a week of television (according to various reports - and I believe the numbers are higher these days actually) and the hardcore mmorpg player shows a massive decrease in television hours that corresponds directly to playtime. This playtime should also be acknowledged as somewhat 'interactive' as compared to television viewing and net surfing. I actually converse with real life friends online and much of the time see them out and about later at the gym for a pickup game or a bar. We talk in Vent about where we are going to meet to watch the game while killing orcs online. I don't spend massive amounts of time in-game or in front of the tv but I can't fail to notice that it isn't really that much further out from the norm. Just don't make it sound as if the hardcore are that much worse than most folks sitting in front of the tube.
Sitting around playing video games for 30 hours a week is no different than watching TV for 30 hours a week. However, I don't believe the average American watches 30 hours of T.V. a week. What source are you basing this on? Even if it is true, do you really want to bring the argument, "well he's doing it, so why can't we?" Do you really want to compare yourself to the "average American?" A recent article in my local newspaper said that 60-70% (can't remember exact figure) is obese and the number is rising. Does that mean I'm going to go get fat?
Now I'm not talking about "duty" either. The only duty one has is to himself. What I'm talking about is when I face death, and take a look at the past, I want to say I made something of myself and improved the world in some way. If you or anyone else wants to sit on their death bed and say, "I was lvl 80 first in WoW, had the most PvP kills in Darkfall, and had uber gear, " then fine. However, don't expect me to consider hardcore gaming a viable alternative to healthy gaming when consideration or discussions are being made about how much content is enough content and how often should content patches be released.
Comments
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
I suppose I have to give that to you. As long as the individual can take care of themselves, take care of their responsibilities (especially if there are children/pets in their lives) and can plan for their future, feed themselves, etc, then it shouldn't really matter.
I can't say that I look on in envy of my friends and acquaintences who have more tradtitional lives.
Personally I do think people should know people in their own area as I find such personal relationships to be important but spending 8 hours per day on a video game and not bothering anyone else and not shirking your responsibilities is no worse, in my opinion, than driving your kids to soccer and whatever else they need, doing your reports the night before your big meeting and catching 30 minutues of lettermen before you hit the hay.
In the end it comes down to what you like or value.
But again, as long as one can take care of themselves, take care of responsibilities and insure that they are not going to be a 75 year old working at an entry level job to make ends meet.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
I agree with this statement, in the sense that I wouldn't have gotten anywhere either had I played FFXI for 1-3 hrs. It seems most posters in this thread agree that "games now days are meant to be played 1-3 hrs", my question is, does that mean you think the days of games like FFXI, which require significantly more than 1-3 hrs. are pretty much over?
I agree with some posters that when you make an mmo you need alot of content. Many games arent putting enough content in or not putting enough content in fast enough but.....beware for those of you who have nothing better to do than play games all day: you may get bored quickly! I personally moderate my game time as I have family, work , and friends which is far more important than playing games. Games are menat to be enjoyable and fun. Some people have lost that touch or feeling.
(DDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH goes on another tropic vacation with Denise Milani and Lucy Pinder!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
I do most of my playing on the weekends, so whether I take it in 2 hours or 4 hours (with a break or two) it doesn't matter. I just think the problem with some developers is their constant dependence on the same execution or game mechanics for their titles, not so much the sheer quantity of gameplay time. When it seems that there's no real difference between WoW and STO (hint: there is none), then that's when people get pissed off and simply stop playing altogether. Or at least go back to playing their favorite single player titles (which oddly are more imaginative and unique in game mechanics than MMOs are most of the time).
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
It's definitely arguable to say gaming is a way of life. Even if we all agreed that gaming is a way of life, it's not a worthy way of life. It's shallow and meaningless. In a world where people are measured by how they contribute to society, as they should, caring about what society thinks should matter. Caring about what society thinks is what drives politicians to make one decision over the next, or the Supreme Court in passing a new law, ammending others, and granting appeals. What society thinks is a huge driving force in our world, and anyone that doesn't consider it is out of touch with reality, which is a problem the "gamer way of life" brings.
So basically, people who spend their life gaming at the expense of their health and all other things are worthless to society. Since they're worthless to society, they can't complain if society looks down on them, and treats them like outcasts. That kind of anti-social behavior gets you no where in life.
that and it completely burns you out on this genre making every game seem like garbage.
This, in my opinion, is MMO enlightenment. Once people figure this out, they begin to enjoy the genre again. I don't know how many years I played MMO's obsessively before I learned this. I played over 20 P2P MMO's over the past 8 years, and was only happy with 3 of them long enough to get a max leveled character. That's because I was indoctronated to believe MMO's must be one way, but was seeing it another way for several years after I finished DAoC and SWG.
What I learned on top of healthy gaming habits, is that MMO's shouldn't be judged any different than any other game. When it comes down to games, the driving force to pay money for them is the expectation to receive equal value of fun back. If a single player game is fun and lasts a week, yet costs $60 a pop, why is it a MMO that is fun for 1 month, and costs $50 a pop isn't worth the money? That's a contradiction that MMO fanatics are blind to, and should realize that a game is a game, and fun is fun. Genre's change, as does games and their features. As humans, our greatest trait is adaptability, but you see such a lack of adaptability from the community in the MMO genre. Well, I've woken up and have learned to adapt. Now MMO's are fun again, even those that only last a few months at most. When is everyone else going to wake up?
The heart of this topic is hardcore vs casual. There will always be large playtime differences in players of an MMO, some people will play a lot, some very little. Neither is more correct or right over the other, its personal choice.
poster 32 it used to be like tthat but when game maker like perfect world make perfect world on par graphicly with any AAA title
i begin to question this idea.hell im not even talking with their futur game GRAND MUNDO this year .(dont know if it will still be f2p outside asia!but i dont believe it will from the look of it!)so im sorry but p2p game have to work twice as hard as f2p game
to justify their price!now the tactic they have been using is hide everything when they buy they ll see!but its backfiring on themselves because once your name is scrap because of not being honest in the view of game its done!ask any
game maker that scrapped their name its very hard to come back !oh you will have sold this game ,but no mather the positive you bring in your futur title your company is branded!the only you ll get gamer in your next title is has a f2p title !thats what lot of game maker face !i feel sorry for them but they got only themselves to blame!
I'm gonna have to agree with this. For me I no longer have time to play MMOs since I'm doing engineering in college. And when I get those few hours of spare time on the week days, I would rather play a game or two of Men of War or Heroes of Newerth instead of blowing the time on an MMO. Then the weekend comes along and I would rather spend my time going out with friends and meeting new people than sitting in a room alone on a game.
I have to agree, for people to be playing "hardcore", you HAVE to be giving something up in your life. And I think people take it the wrong way when they hear people tell them "You have no life". What they mean is that you have no social life. Seriously, to be playing games that much there's no way you can get much out of a social life...unless you're some bum with nothing to do but play games and hang out with friends.
I'm actually excited to post on this website for a change. We, as a whole, are actually starting to get somewhere with MMO Psychology. However, you'll have to elaborate, because I don't understand what your point is.
So how do you measure content? Well, you subtract the grind elements from each block of content, and then time how long it takes to complete each block of content available in the game. A block of content could be called a quest, group quest, instance, battleground, raid, and so on. Developer's have a tendency to make some things grind heavy to make those blocks of content last longer than they should, such as having to kill 20 wolves to get 4 wolf claws, when you know damn sure that each wolf has at least 4 claws. Content doesn't stop being content once level cap is reached. In fact, if the game is centered on completing content, then reaching max level shouldn't be the goal to begin with for players.
So one game that lasts 100 hours, but that entire 100 hours is fun, is better than the game that takes 400 hours, but 300 of those hours is all mind-numbing grind.
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
It's definitely arguable to say gaming is a way of life. Even if we all agreed that gaming is a way of life, it's not a worthy way of life. It's shallow and meaningless. In a world where people are measured by how they contribute to society, as they should, caring about what society thinks should matter. Caring about what society thinks is what drives politicians to make one decision over the next, or the Supreme Court in passing a new law, ammending others, and granting appeals. What society thinks is a huge driving force in our world, and anyone that doesn't consider it is out of touch with reality, which is a problem the "gamer way of life" brings.
So basically, people who spend their life gaming at the expense of their health and all other things are worthless to society. Since they're worthless to society, they can't complain if society looks down on them, and treats them like outcasts. That kind of anti-social behavior gets you no where in life.
I've never really been a group over the individual type of person because the group, in the end is made up of individuals. Chances are that at some point some part of that group will be sacrificed for the greater good and I'm pretty sure that no one wants to have what they hold dear sacrificed.
Also, even though you say that gaming a meaningless I would have to argue that this in the end is subjective.
Truth be told, I think that going to an 8 hour a day job and having a family is pretty meaningless. Of course, many of us (myself included) must work to live but all the trappings of 2 cars in the garage and a chicken in every pot seems horrid to me.
I believe people can contribute to society in their own way. Even if that way is small. I just don't like and can't subscribe to the idea that in order to be meaningful you have to do it "my way" or it's the highway.
I would much rather have a society of hardcore gamers who lead their lives and leave everyone alone as opposed to a person who declares that their way is the best and forces others to comply or marginalizes a group because that group doesn't fit their definition of worthy.
Because where does it end?
Let's face it, most of us dont' contribute to society iin a meaningful way. Especially when you then start to wonder what that means.
Going to work and paying taxes and providing jobs for an area might be meaningful but someone else could easily argue that helping the poor and down trodden and supplying food and medicines for the needy is far more meaningful.
the sister of a friend of mine does just that. She travles all over the world to impoverished countries and builds shelters, organizes supplies and essentially fights the good fight because she believes that no human being should go without.
It would be hard to say that the average white collar businessman has a more meaningful life.
The hardcore gamer who helps an old lady walk over an icy patch so that she doesn't get hurt or who recycles their plastics is contributing to society in their own way. And heck if they are paying taxes (which most likely they are) then they are paying their share.
Any society that dictates how another should live their life is not a very worthy society.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I guess it depends on who is doing the complaining.
In every mmo there is a small percentage of players who go to great lengths to be the first person to reach level cap. Sometimes they play 24/7. Sometimes they use the beta to figure out the fastest progression path. Sometimes they actually have teams of players who take turns playing a character, or supporting that character, or both. So if one of those folks are complaining, pffffft.
But if fairly ordinary players are already out of things to do in a game that launched this recently, well, that's not good.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Its also not game company's faults that people everywhere don't know how to take things in moderation. Playing something for 5, 6, hell even 8 hours plus a day then complaining when you beat it is also silly.
That's so true. When these people, living their "gamer way of life" gets to the age where their physical and mental reflexes are not good enough to play games, or to the age where they've played out every scenario imaginable in a game, and no new game is entertaining, they'll finally see the value of a healthy social life. Friends, family, and community involvement offers a better quality of life than a "gamer way of life" ever can. When that "gamer way of life" follower finally ends up on their death bed, they'll be alone.
The point being, playing games as a hobby is all well and good, but it shouldn't be your life. I mean, I can see some days where people can afford 5-8 hours for gaming, and then others where they can only play a few due to real life friends, family, and community obligations, but 5-8 hours a day is a sign that the person has nothing else going on in their life.
Its also not game company's faults that people everywhere don't know how to take things in moderation. Playing something for 5, 6, hell even 8 hours plus a day then complaining when you beat it is also silly.
Yes it's the game's company fault when in sto there's only 1 path to do to reach cap which is also very easy to reach and fast. There's no altrenatives you will go from if you ever wanted to make an alt you will have to go from the same places and do same quests unlike most mmos were you have more then 1 starting zone with each their places and lore.
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
I agree with this statement, in the sense that I wouldn't have gotten anywhere either had I played FFXI for 1-3 hrs. It seems most posters in this thread agree that "games now days are meant to be played 1-3 hrs", my question is, does that mean you think the days of games like FFXI, which require significantly more than 1-3 hrs. are pretty much over?
I think they're over. Game addicts are getting too much media attention for companies to risk being labeled as promoting game addiction. So a good company will keep the time committment per day down, so that they don't risk bad PR. Also, hardcore gamers are in the minority, and game company's these days are catering towards the masses.
That's so true. When these people, living their "gamer way of life" gets to the age where their physical and mental reflexes are not good enough to play games, or to the age where they've played out every scenario imaginable in a game, and no new game is entertaining, they'll finally see the value of a healthy social life. Friends, family, and community involvement offers a better quality of life than a "gamer way of life" ever can. When that "gamer way of life" follower finally ends up on their death bed, they'll be alone.
The point being, playing games as a hobby is all well and good, but it shouldn't be your life. I mean, I can see some days where people can afford 5-8 hours for gaming, and then others where they can only play a few due to real life friends, family, and community obligations, but 5-8 hours a day is a sign that the person has nothing else going on in their life.
I'll be honest, I personally believe this.
However, there are people who are disabled and who really never get out. one can then say to them "well, tough, you have to find a way because you are not experiencing life the way it should be.
Of course this is an extreme example and of course we've all seen posts by people who have proclaimed that they can't make real life friends and can only make game friends.
While it's a shame that many people will never experience a strong healthy social life with people who life in their community I suppose one can say that wherever one finds solace is a decent place to be.
What I find sad are the myriad posts of people who claim that they had "in game" friends who were then betrayed by these friends. Of course, friends in real life might also betray you but it seems to me that there are people who are too ready to ascribe the word "friend" to anyone they meet in game without really knowing who that person is.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That's so true. When these people, living their "gamer way of life" gets to the age where their physical and mental reflexes are not good enough to play games, or to the age where they've played out every scenario imaginable in a game, and no new game is entertaining, they'll finally see the value of a healthy social life. Friends, family, and community involvement offers a better quality of life than a "gamer way of life" ever can. When that "gamer way of life" follower finally ends up on their death bed, they'll be alone.
The point being, playing games as a hobby is all well and good, but it shouldn't be your life. I mean, I can see some days where people can afford 5-8 hours for gaming, and then others where they can only play a few due to real life friends, family, and community obligations, but 5-8 hours a day is a sign that the person has nothing else going on in their life.
Its all about time management, I used to play FFXI 6-8 hours a day work part time, was in a band, and went to church every sunday. I never watched TV, didn't have a GF, but I still had time to hang out with friends and play DnD on the weekends. I got like 6 hours of sleep every night but I did that for almost a year straight.
So you can still play videogames a lot and still have a social life if you really want to , you just have to give other things up.
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
It's definitely arguable to say gaming is a way of life. Even if we all agreed that gaming is a way of life, it's not a worthy way of life. It's shallow and meaningless. In a world where people are measured by how they contribute to society, as they should, caring about what society thinks should matter. Caring about what society thinks is what drives politicians to make one decision over the next, or the Supreme Court in passing a new law, ammending others, and granting appeals. What society thinks is a huge driving force in our world, and anyone that doesn't consider it is out of touch with reality, which is a problem the "gamer way of life" brings.
So basically, people who spend their life gaming at the expense of their health and all other things are worthless to society. Since they're worthless to society, they can't complain if society looks down on them, and treats them like outcasts. That kind of anti-social behavior gets you no where in life.
I've never really been a group over the individual type of person because the group, in the end is made up of individuals. Chances are that at some point some part of that group will be sacrificed for the greater good and I'm pretty sure that no one wants to have what they hold dear sacrificed.
Also, even though you say that gaming a meaningless I would have to argue that this in the end is subjective.
Truth be told, I think that going to an 8 hour a day job and having a family is pretty meaningless. Of course, many of us (myself included) must work to live but all the trappings of 2 cars in the garage and a chicken in every pot seems horrid to me.
I believe people can contribute to society in their own way. Even if that way is small. I just don't like and can't subscribe to the idea that in order to be meaningful you have to do it "my way" or it's the highway.
I would much rather have a society of hardcore gamers who lead their lives and leave everyone alone as opposed to a person who declares that their way is the best and forces others to comply or marginalizes a group because that group doesn't fit their definition of worthy.
Because where does it end?
Let's face it, most of us dont' contribute to society iin a meaningful way. Especially when you then start to wonder what that means.
Going to work and paying taxes and providing jobs for an area might be meaningful but someone else could easily argue that helping the poor and down trodden and supplying food and medicines for the needy is far more meaningful.
the sister of a friend of mine does just that. She travles all over the world to impoverished countries and builds shelters, organizes supplies and essentially fights the good fight because she believes that no human being should go without.
It would be hard to say that the average white collar businessman has a more meaningful life.
The hardcore gamer who helps an old lady walk over an icy patch so that she doesn't get hurt or who recycles their plastics is contributing to society in their own way. And heck if they are paying taxes (which most likely they are) then they are paying their share.
Any society that dictates how another should live their life is not a very worthy society.
Yes, determining what is considered a meaningful life is a sticky subject. In my opinion, helping humanity grow and bettering humanities future is meaningful. An entire community that spends their entire life playing video games is not going to advance in medical, technology, engineering, or any other areas needed to better the future of our species. Luckily, this doesn't happen, but this just means we have some people leaching off the efforts of others.
A person has to take a side when it comes to this. There's no middle ground. A person has to have the courage to pick their way of life, and stick to it. I think most people in the world would agree that bettering ourselves and the future of our species is a meaningful life, while spending 20+ hours a week gaming is not. Everyone can contribute to society. Mostly by teaching others things that are worth a damn to know, so that they may collect good knowledge and wisdom, and pass it along to their descendents. So on and so forth, until our species finally creates a Utopia.
We, as a species, has came a long way over the millennia. Think of how far we'd be if everyone adopted the gamer life style in the beginning days. Caveman 1 throws a rock into a circle drawn into the dirst. Caveman 2 does likewise. Caveman 1 wins, because he got closer to the middle. All cavemen and women do this day in a day out, do not socialize with each other, thus do not populate the Earth. End result: Humans go extinct. In other words, a life dedicated to gaming is not a viable way of life. Sure, it's fun while it lasts, and possibly more fun in the short term than most things, but there's really no substance in it.
But yet work and play are two sides of the same coin.
To the OP's tune: I'd say MMORPG's are like anything in like: healthy in doses. I certainly agree that MMORPGs are mostly broken into parts that are easily digestable in smaller segments, but that obsessive personalities, and the nature of advancement pull individuals into spending more time than is healthy or intended.
It kind of makes reference to the whole argument about hardcores having no life. This is typically an argument done by casuals wishing they were hardcore in terms of advancement. Most hardcore don't spend more than a couple of hours a day but they accomplish through efficiency and *pacing*.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
There will always be people who will play all day everyday so that they can finish the game. Also, maybe if the mmo was more of an open world and less of a theme park it would take them alot longer to finish.
And you know what? I don't consider anyone who plays an hour or two a day a gamer. If that's all the time you have to invest into a game then I suggest you pick up a Wii.
lmao....hahahha...bwhahaha...
I give your post a 10/10.
"Pfft....wannabe alcoholics, only drinking 2 drinks a day" When your about to pass...looking back at life....I'm sure you'll cherish those 80-hour gaming weeks....
Don't regret it now, and won't regret it then.
Thanks for the high rank though.
I am not casting judgement on anyone but I will say that I find much of the talk about societal 'duty' somewhat amusing when the average American watches around 30 hours a week of television (according to various reports - and I believe the numbers are higher these days actually) and the hardcore mmorpg player shows a massive decrease in television hours that corresponds directly to playtime.
This playtime should also be acknowledged as somewhat 'interactive' as compared to television viewing and net surfing. I actually converse with real life friends online and much of the time see them out and about later at the gym for a pickup game or a bar. We talk in Vent about where we are going to meet to watch the game while killing orcs online.
I don't spend massive amounts of time in-game or in front of the tv but I can't fail to notice that it isn't really that much further out from the norm. Just don't make it sound as if the hardcore are that much worse than most folks sitting in front of the tube.
Gaming is a way of life IMO, so who cares if I would play 6-8 hours a day or 1-3. I say to each their own, and I wish more people would think that way. Who cares what other people do, just care what you do and live how you want to.
But its true games now days are ment to be played 1-3 if you want to not get to cap in a few weeks. If I would have played that many hours in FFXI I would have never gotten anywhere in that game.
It's definitely arguable to say gaming is a way of life. Even if we all agreed that gaming is a way of life, it's not a worthy way of life. It's shallow and meaningless. In a world where people are measured by how they contribute to society, as they should, caring about what society thinks should matter. Caring about what society thinks is what drives politicians to make one decision over the next, or the Supreme Court in passing a new law, ammending others, and granting appeals. What society thinks is a huge driving force in our world, and anyone that doesn't consider it is out of touch with reality, which is a problem the "gamer way of life" brings.
So basically, people who spend their life gaming at the expense of their health and all other things are worthless to society. Since they're worthless to society, they can't complain if society looks down on them, and treats them like outcasts. That kind of anti-social behavior gets you no where in life.
I've never really been a group over the individual type of person because the group, in the end is made up of individuals. Chances are that at some point some part of that group will be sacrificed for the greater good and I'm pretty sure that no one wants to have what they hold dear sacrificed.
Also, even though you say that gaming a meaningless I would have to argue that this in the end is subjective.
Truth be told, I think that going to an 8 hour a day job and having a family is pretty meaningless. Of course, many of us (myself included) must work to live but all the trappings of 2 cars in the garage and a chicken in every pot seems horrid to me.
I believe people can contribute to society in their own way. Even if that way is small. I just don't like and can't subscribe to the idea that in order to be meaningful you have to do it "my way" or it's the highway.
I would much rather have a society of hardcore gamers who lead their lives and leave everyone alone as opposed to a person who declares that their way is the best and forces others to comply or marginalizes a group because that group doesn't fit their definition of worthy.
Because where does it end?
Let's face it, most of us dont' contribute to society iin a meaningful way. Especially when you then start to wonder what that means.
Going to work and paying taxes and providing jobs for an area might be meaningful but someone else could easily argue that helping the poor and down trodden and supplying food and medicines for the needy is far more meaningful.
the sister of a friend of mine does just that. She travles all over the world to impoverished countries and builds shelters, organizes supplies and essentially fights the good fight because she believes that no human being should go without.
It would be hard to say that the average white collar businessman has a more meaningful life.
The hardcore gamer who helps an old lady walk over an icy patch so that she doesn't get hurt or who recycles their plastics is contributing to society in their own way. And heck if they are paying taxes (which most likely they are) then they are paying their share.
Any society that dictates how another should live their life is not a very worthy society.
Yes, determining what is considered a meaningful life is a sticky subject. In my opinion, helping humanity grow and bettering humanities future is meaningful. An entire community that spends their entire life playing video games is not going to advance in medical, technology, engineering, or any other areas needed to better the future of our species. Luckily, this doesn't happen, but this just means we have some people leaching off the efforts of others.
A person has to take a side when it comes to this. There's no middle ground. A person has to have the courage to pick their way of life, and stick to it. I think most people in the world would agree that bettering ourselves and the future of our species is a meaningful life, while spending 20+ hours a week gaming is not. Everyone can contribute to society. Mostly by teaching others things that are worth a damn to know, so that they may collect good knowledge and wisdom, and pass it along to their descendents. So on and so forth, until our species finally creates a Utopia.
We, as a species, has came a long way over the millennia. Think of how far we'd be if everyone adopted the gamer life style in the beginning days. Caveman 1 throws a rock into a circle drawn into the dirst. Caveman 2 does likewise. Caveman 1 wins, because he got closer to the middle. All cavemen and women do this day in a day out, do not socialize with each other, thus do not populate the Earth. End result: Humans go extinct. In other words, a life dedicated to gaming is not a viable way of life. Sure, it's fun while it lasts, and possibly more fun in the short term than most things, but there's really no substance in it.
Well, there's always going to be leechers. In this particular case, it's gaming. What if I considered the starving people of the world who we must constantly donate to as leechers? That's a far less popular view. Why? Either way, in the end, they're not contributing to society, right? While "hardcore" gaming is a choice, being poor or sick in Africa is not. But the end result is the same, isn't it? Perhaps those "hardcore" gamers should just be ignored, since there are billions of people on this planet, most of whom are willing to contribute. If you want to try to convince them that they should only play 1-3 hours a day, go ahead. Maybe a few will listen to you. But most won't.
I doubt there's such a thing as gaming "addiction". I think people choose how much they play and must deal with the consequences. Especially if they receive fair warning of what might happen if they go down that path (hardcore gaming). Some turn out okay and don't regret their choice while others end up depressed or with a self-inflicted bullet in their brain. Either way, the game company doesn't cast some evil spell on them, add some brain-altering chemical into the game, or do anything else that would cause addiction. People need to be responsible, aye?
I think serving God is a meaningful life, which means that I have to balance that with social activities and, of course, playing MMOs. Right now, I play right around 1-3 hours a day. But I can understand if someone chose to play more than that. It's their life. I take the same view on drugs: legalize them (because something illegal is going to be in higher demand and is going to attract more crime than something that is legal, nevermind the potential revenue if the U.S. started growing certain drugs) and let people do whatever they want to themselves. Even in today's society of moral degradation and "If it feels good, do it!" mentality, I think most people will choose to be responsible.
Sitting around playing video games for 30 hours a week is no different than watching TV for 30 hours a week. However, I don't believe the average American watches 30 hours of T.V. a week. What source are you basing this on? Even if it is true, do you really want to bring the argument, "well he's doing it, so why can't we?" Do you really want to compare yourself to the "average American?" A recent article in my local newspaper said that 60-70% (can't remember exact figure) is obese and the number is rising. Does that mean I'm going to go get fat?
Now I'm not talking about "duty" either. The only duty one has is to himself. What I'm talking about is when I face death, and take a look at the past, I want to say I made something of myself and improved the world in some way. If you or anyone else wants to sit on their death bed and say, "I was lvl 80 first in WoW, had the most PvP kills in Darkfall, and had uber gear, " then fine. However, don't expect me to consider hardcore gaming a viable alternative to healthy gaming when consideration or discussions are being made about how much content is enough content and how often should content patches be released.