If you're going to complain about anything...what about Pre-purchasers and Collector's edition owners. Well, I don't buy into these either, so if you want to agree CE editions with virtual items attached are also a cynical cash grab then fine. I agree. To be blunt, well as blunt as I can be here on these forums, if you have an issue with CE items (as you seem to have) then you should in fact have an issue with all MT items. They share the same motive and philosphy after all. I do not buy into the CE thing either.
Then what the hell are you doing on a MMORPG website ? In a matter of fact, I think you are just like "I want attention" here, as for what I can understand from your posts,
... not liking CE versions or MT means I shouldnt like MMORPGs? Thats pretty silly by anyone's standards.
I post here for the same reason as everyone else. To talk about MMORPGs.
you can NOT play any MMO's because of your "rules". F2P = Cash Shop = RMT = "No ty for you". P2P = CE = RMT ( more ,less or none ) = "No ty for you". So, again .. what are you doing here? Seriously, you just keep saying bullshit every time , when someone just start saying something against you, but then .. when THIS guy comes and say "I agree with the OP" you are like "Oh see? I told you I am right" .
I have taken apart all your points of argument so far to the stage where you would rather ignore them and let them slide back a few pages then address them or defend them, and yet you simply call them 'bullshit'.
OK, heres some more 'bullshit' for you...
Existing games such as Darkfall or Fallen Earth, amongst others, and new ones coming (such as Earthrise), don't use MT. As a non MT gamer (as opposed to a 'MT shopper') there are still games for me to play and sub based games prove themselves as profitable and viable every day.
I would obviously like more though, so I talk about it on forums and try to re inforce the point that MT is a bad bad deal for the customer and just trades off the gullible, 'addicted', vain, and lazy.
Are you against the companies which makes MORE money then you wanted to? When you will own a company, please come back ok? EVERY company in this earth wants to make money. Where have u living?
No.
I have addressed this repeatedly, and to be honest it's hard to keep saying the same thing to you only to have you once more post like I have said nothing.
Profit is fine. Profit isnt the same as profiteering.
I have even given examples of modern games that are thriving (and by thriving I mean getting paid, giving free game development, and expanding their live team) on a 100% based sub based revenue model.
And btw, I am self employed and I DO own a company.
And, just to make an observation, so far, "it's just fluff and I don't buy it anyway" has been the only argument for MT .
lol I know...
In all the debates that I have had on this topic on these boards, and there have been many, only 1 person ever has confessed to buying MT items in games. All the others have always said 'I support cash shops because they are the trend, but I don't use them'...
Seeing as 'noone uses them', how MT cash shops make more money for devs then subs, it makes you wonder where all that extra cash comes from eh?
It almost as if people who fall for cash shops are a little embarrased about it...
lol, well i would use Cash shop if there was anything decent in them heh, i will pass on the flower hat heh.
lol Frog
I might not share your view on MT, but at least your honest!
If you're going to complain about anything...what about Pre-purchasers and Collector's edition owners. Well, I don't buy into these either, so if you want to agree CE editions with virtual items attached are also a cynical cash grab then fine. I agree. To be blunt, well as blunt as I can be here on these forums, if you have an issue with CE items (as you seem to have) then you should in fact have an issue with all MT items. They share the same motive and philosphy after all. I do not buy into the CE thing either.
Then what the hell are you doing on a MMORPG website ? In a matter of fact, I think you are just "I want attention" here, as for what I can understand from your posts, you can NOT play any MMO's because of your "laws". F2P = Cash Shop = RMT = "No ty for you". P2P = CE = RMT ( more ,less or none ) = "No ty for you". So, again .. what are you doing here? Seriously, you just keep saying bullshit every time , when someone just start saying something against you, but then .. when THIS guy comes and say "I agree with the OP" you are like "Oh see? I told you I am right" .
Are you against the companies which makes MORE money then you wanted to? When you will own a company, please come back ok? EVERY company in this earth ( games or no-games ) wants to make money. Where have u living?
I will stop responding to this thread from now one. It so pointless, but please , keep QQ while others are enjoy their game
Can someone please translate this for me?
Yea well, I edited my post a little bit ( my english is , not my main language so stfu ). Now , if you didn't followed all this thread stfu ( again) and leave, or just .. do it ok? Next time, don't just read only a post and make pointless comments!
Now shu!
You have quite a bit of attitude for being absolutely wrong.
The point of all this is that while a CE is going for money you are getting something for that money. What NCSoft is doing with P2P-Cashshop is charging you for something you already paid for. Your $15 a month goes for funding servers and content patches, that they have yet to put out. The valentines day stuff they are charging for should have been included in that $15 payment, especially since it cost NCSoft next to nothing since it was developed and funded on the Asian side.
AION will be held to the same $15 standard of all MMO's. They are trying to double dip and it is blatantly obvious. If they want to start charging for content that the $15 monthly paid for then they need to go F2P-Cash shop.
To OP: Dont like it? dont play it. If you dont like MT's in game the best you do is not playing it. In my opinion the community as a whole should stop playing games with sub + MTs . Why? Becouse MTs on top of subs, in my opinon are just greed. No matter if they are only fluff items or not. Fluff items should be given as rewards for bying expansion packs or preordering.
Those of you who are critcising the OP for complaining about a cash shop selling fluff items are missing the point. It's not just that they're fluff items, but fluff items that most MMOs offer for free. Believe it or not, some players actually LIKE seasonal events (shock horror!) and given that Aion's were already a joke, the fact that they would try to charge for them is ridiculous. Have you considered that the OP might not be annoyed because they wanted the items, but simply because of the principle?
At least there are some people out there can see through what they want me to be saying, to see what I am actually saying.
Thank you.
you realise there is red dyes in the game you cam get for free right? there is petals in game that comes from gathering.
To OP: Dont like it? dont play it. If you dont like MT's in game the best you do is not playing it. In my opinion the community as a whole should stop playing games with sub + MTs . Why? Becouse MTs on top of subs, in my opinon are just greed. No matter if they are only fluff items or not.
To OP: Dont like it? dont play it. If you dont like MT's in game the best you do is not playing it. In my opinion the community as a whole should stop playing games with sub + MTs . Why? Becouse MTs on top of subs, in my opinon are just greed. No matter if they are only fluff items or not.
I agree, and this is why I have cancelled
I would agree with you IF the items for purchase were items that improved your character or gave you an advantage. Usually that's what a cashshop is for. Since they are items that change your look, give you an emote, change your name , or legion name I have no problems with it. It's not something anyone needs so they are not making you buy anything. I'm almost certain they will be one of the veteran rewards soon anyway. I would like to remind everyone that WOW charges to do these exact same things. Its not something to get your feathers ruffled about.
Lack of content was obvious as was the linear game play from day 1,you supported that so why change now?
Lamest events i have seen can NEVER be worse than in ROM,the reason is probably because it is using the same GM's.NCSOFT pretty much runs gamania a very shotty organization and ROM i am pretty sure uses the same GM.These GM's are contracted to show up on set times and run events at set times,they will NEVER do any more than they have to and really do not care of the quality of the event as long as they meet their contract rules.
Once again in game bot control or hack prevention has NEVER been taken care of by NCSOFT,they even tried to outright lie to you the players as they had planned to release the game using a VERY well known of a failure called Nguard.Ask yourself WHY?why would NCSOFT try to pan off an anti hack that has proven to NEVER work?
Forums..no comment really,all moderators do in forums USUALLY is ban people,mods rarely in any game forum do much to answer questions or support the game.A BLATANT example i witnessed through these gamania GM's was players questions never got answered but when a player told them how pleased he was of their events,there was an instant spam of GM's saying thank you,so they are their but only to pat themselves on the back.This is especially pathetic when you consider how lame events are.
CORE systems....
Well all Aion ever bragged about was making your player look cute and flying,so did your eally expect content or a good game?This is no better than Blizzard spamming PR telling us we should play WOW because they have lots of subs.As far as moving along slowly,this should again be obvious IF you are a true Aion fan.The REASON is because after release they have moved the staff onto finishing the expansions,they were already working on TWO xpacs before Aion was even released,they are working on making more money from the players rather than create free content[not going to happen].This imo is a blatant misuse of content,instead of finishing the game so you had more choice of race more starting choices more polish,they instead released a half finished game and planned all along to split it into parts and make more money doing so,basically Guild Wars but with a subscription.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This is not really just directed at AION but more about the MT issue.
MT is becoming more and more a part of gaming, while I wish this wasnt this way, people just really need to start getting used to this sort of model, and this is expanding to offline games as well, I attended a recent talk from Peter Molyneux where he has stated that their plan for Fable is to sell content in game through MT, this is expanding to pretty much every game out there.
While I dont agree this is a "fancy" or even good model to try and scrap more money out of your fanbase, there might be advantages if this is done correctly, the first one being, sustained development, we may be talking about fluff items and potions, but when you extend this to core content you have a winner, with smaller highly developed content, its in the interest of the developer to have higher quality small content if they want to sell, it also allows the developer to give you previews of the content in game.
So instead of having to fork out 30-40USD for an expansion that usually is focused around one selling point and many mediocre changes/implementations, you could buy little bits for 2-3USD, where the developer has focused their full design and attention to, so every bit you buy will be of higher quality, ofc this is in theory but in the end MT may not be a bad thing if done correctly, with the right model and overall pricing.
It could also solve the problem we have today of MMO's getting more and more complex that 90% of the time they dont deliver on all their features at release and piss off the player base, so instead you could buy a "part" of the game at release that is not complete and then have access to a "road map" of the development where you can purchase the additional content as its ready, and tested, this would also bring fanbase and developers together into developing the game YOU want to play rather than being disapointed with the overall package you get handed.
I can shed some light for the OP... Lack of content was obvious as was the linear game play from day 1,you supported that so why change now? To be honest Wiz, I obviously had no idea HOW linear the game was PvE wise until I had played through it. If you look at my OP again, you will see my account was 'suspended' on my part until they had put more content in with 2.0 (maybe). I try to not judge games until i have played them really. Once again in game bot control or hack prevention has NEVER been taken care of by NCSOFT,they even tried to outright lie to you the players as they had planned to release the game using a VERY well known of a failure called Nguard.Ask yourself WHY?why would NCSOFT try to pan off an anti hack that has proven to NEVER work? I honestly have no idea tbh... For very experienced devs, on a game that had been Live for a long time by the launch in the west, it took them way too long to nail this issue. My GF left the game a long time before I did simply because of the way NCS handled the RMT problem. She simply didnt believe in them as a company any more. ...they are working on making more money from the players rather than create free content[not going to happen].This imo is a blatant misuse of content,instead of finishing the game so you had more choice of race more starting choices more polish,they instead released a half finished game and planned all along to split it into parts and make more money doing so,basically Guild Wars but with a subscription. yes, exactly.
To OP: Dont like it? dont play it. If you dont like MT's in game the best you do is not playing it. In my opinion the community as a whole should stop playing games with sub + MTs . Why? Becouse MTs on top of subs, in my opinon are just greed. No matter if they are only fluff items or not.
I agree, and this is why I have cancelled
I would agree with you IF the items for purchase were items that improved your character or gave you an advantage. Usually that's what a cashshop is for. Since they are items that change your look, give you an emote, change your name , or legion name I have no problems with it. It's not something anyone needs so they are not making you buy anything. I'm almost certain they will be one of the veteran rewards soon anyway. I would like to remind everyone that WOW charges to do these exact same things. Its not something to get your feathers ruffled about.
My feathers arnt ruffled, I have calmly explained my issues and stated why I am cancelling for good is all.
I should make clear though again that I don't mind paid services.
I have explained why MT, fluff or otherwise, in a sub game hurts every player though already, so if it's ok I will just cut'n'paste my response here?
I personally hate MT because 1) I don't see the sense of achievement in it, and 2) it is dishonest (it hides the true cost of play, while slowly ramping up your dependency on it once your make an emotional investment in the game).
It is also fully aimed at the young, gullible, naive, and 'addicted', which makes it pretty exploitative, especially in the methods they use to slowly reel users in (cheap and not required at first etc).
Corporations like MT because it makes them more money then subs, especially if they can get a sub as well. That money only comes from one place, and thats you and others like you. Hence it is undeniable that MT costs the gamer more for content that should be in anyhow in a sub based game.
To gain access to all the available content in a sub+MT based game simpy costs more then if it was sub only.
An argument for MT shops is simply an argument for more expensive gaming experiences.
Why would you as a intelligent and sensible consumer support that?
I agree about the valentine pack they should of made it an event and you could get some fo those rewards ingame but the rest of the stuff are technical stuff nothing ingame.
Name, server (not yet in but it will), guild changes shouldn't be made free else there could be griefers and @ssholes that can flee easily after they do damage to a server or to persons in that particular server.
I wouldn't enjoy it if what happened in darkfall that guy kept on taking all stuff in bank could flee to another server or change name and do it x number of times without being penalised.
Character recustomization yeah it's a mixed opinion here because I would like if once in a long while they would make some event or you could get it from eveteran rewards after x months to have a free recustomization available but on the other hand I would hate to see people look dumb on purpose just because they know they can change how they look "freely" so a price would be good there too.
All the points I wrote here for me looks more a problem with immature customers then a company because there wouldn't be much problems if some of these features could be obtainable ingame once in a long while but it can result in some griefing and/or immature people that think they are funny =/
I can shed some light for the OP... Lack of content was obvious as was the linear game play from day 1,you supported that so why change now? Lamest events i have seen can NEVER be worse than in ROM,the reason is probably because it is using the same GM's.NCSOFT pretty much runs gamania a very shotty organization and ROM i am pretty sure uses the same GM.These GM's are contracted to show up on set times and run events at set times,they will NEVER do any more than they have to and really do not care of the quality of the event as long as they meet their contract rules. Once again in game bot control or hack prevention has NEVER been taken care of by NCSOFT,they even tried to outright lie to you the players as they had planned to release the game using a VERY well known of a failure called Nguard.Ask yourself WHY?why would NCSOFT try to pan off an anti hack that has proven to NEVER work? Forums..no comment really,all moderators do in forums USUALLY is ban people,mods rarely in any game forum do much to answer questions or support the game.A BLATANT example i witnessed through these gamania GM's was players questions never got answered but when a player told them how pleased he was of their events,there was an instant spam of GM's saying thank you,so they are their but only to pat themselves on the back.This is especially pathetic when you consider how lame events are. CORE systems.... Well all Aion ever bragged about was making your player look cute and flying,so did your eally expect content or a good game?This is no better than Blizzard spamming PR telling us we should play WOW because they have lots of subs.As far as moving along slowly,this should again be obvious IF you are a true Aion fan.The REASON is because after release they have moved the staff onto finishing the expansions,they were already working on TWO xpacs before Aion was even released,they are working on making more money from the players rather than create free content[not going to happen].This imo is a blatant misuse of content,instead of finishing the game so you had more choice of race more starting choices more polish,they instead released a half finished game and planned all along to split it into parts and make more money doing so,basically Guild Wars but with a subscription.
Ncsoft removed gameguard a few weeks before release due to many player complaints about issues with it. I had to break it to you but bots and spammers will plague all games from now on. Go look at STO forums, already people are seeing that Aion is not the only game getting farmed.
Aion west has already announced more content coming out this year. I would venture to say that letting playes get used to the game before dumping more content out is a good thing. I mean the game has barely been out 5 monthes! Also paid services is hardly a "money maker" if anything its merely nickle and dime way to offer you other customization options.
As far as content goes, the US/EU version of Aion already received "free" content. Since the game has been out a year in Korea we received most of the updates they already had, which included instances (Steel Rake Dark Poeta) and quests.
Simply put MMO's are out to make money. Without that money the game wouldn't exist. Everyone out here is acting like MMO should be handing out free everything cause we pay a monthly sub. You get what you pay for. Let's step into the real world...content,manpower, overhead, employees, testing, etc all these things cost money.
This is not really just directed at AION but more about the MT issue. MT is becoming more and more a part of gaming, while I wish this wasnt this way, people just really need to start getting used to this sort of model, and this is expanding to offline games as well, I attended a recent talk from Peter Molyneux where he has stated that their plan for Fable is to sell content in game through MT, this is expanding to pretty much every game out there. It only expands if we, the consumer, allows it to though. Like I said before, I think that people need to start to remember that it's us, the consumer, that defines trends, not corporations. We don't have to do what they tell us, willingly fooled out the money that we have sold our real life to obtain by the promise of little glowing swords made out of pixels and the thinest of spin. I have never seen a a generation more compliant and docile then this one seems to be I also don't have a lot of faith in what Molyneux says... he has made some great games (love Dungeon Keeper), but his misjudgements far outweigh his good ones in my eyes.
Anyhow, I have no problems if they sell playable content as DLC While I dont agree this is a "fancy" or even good model to try and scrap more money out of your fanbase, there might be advantages if this is done correctly, the first one being, sustained development, we may be talking about fluff items and potions, but when you extend this to core content you have a winner, with smaller highly developed content, its in the interest of the developer to have higher quality small content if they want to sell, it also allows the developer to give you previews of the content in game. Sustained live development has been in this genre before I started EQ in '99, on a sub model. Darkfall has recently launched a big free expansion and expanded it's live dev team, on a sub model. I don't think your point here really stands. So instead of having to fork out 30-40USD for an expansion that usually is focused around one selling point and many mediocre changes/implementations, you could buy little bits for 2-3USD, where the developer has focused their full design and attention to, so every bit you buy will be of higher quality, ofc this is in theory but in the end MT may not be a bad thing if done correctly, with the right model and overall pricing. I get what you mean here though, though if you added up everything in what could be considered an 'average' expansion they in my experience work out far far cheaper then buying the 'essential' components piecemeal. NCS charging £5.99 for those weak seasonal packs for instance? The devs only like MT for one reason, like I say, and thats because it makes them far more money then subs (especially when heaped on top of a sub) and therefore it stands to reason surely that it's more expensive then subs to get your version of the game to a state where you can play with your friends? I am also not buying into your 'higher quality' notion... I see no evidence at all that MT items are any higher quality then those that come from a sub based model. It could also solve the problem we have today of MMO's getting more and more complex that 90% of the time they dont deliver on all their features at release and piss off the player base, so instead you could buy a "part" of the game at release that is not complete and then have access to a "road map" of the development where you can purchase the additional content as its ready, and tested, this would also bring fanbase and developers together into developing the game YOU want to play rather than being disapointed with the overall package you get handed. I actually think you have good intentions in how you see the MT model and how it *should* work, and I applaud that. If you were in charge of it we might not even be having this conversation. Your not though If I honestly felt that the devs involved in it had the same good intentions I would rest a lot easier... but I simply don't. The reality, as they have shown us again and again, is that they don't see MT as a positive way to help the genre, they just see it as a way to double dip us for extra profit in the most cynical way.
Simply put MMO's are out to make money. Without that money the game wouldn't exist. Ofc. But, as been said repeatedly, making a profit isnt the same as profiteering. Once more, I point to Aventurine and Darkfall... A sub based game that is successfully getting paid, expanding it's live dev team, and giving it's players a big assed free expansion recently. All on a sub. Everyone out here is acting like MMO should be handing out free everything cause we pay a monthly sub. No, no not at all. We are on the whole saying that we are happy to pay extra for new playable content, if the original product is percieved as 'complete' at launch. (I say 'complete' btw in the context of an MMORPG... ) You get what you pay for. Let's step into the real world...content,manpower, overhead, employees, testing, etc all these things cost money. And yet EQ/ EQ2 (as examples) developed for years on a sub at a proft with all these considerations before SOE got greedy, as does Fallen Earth and Darkfall now. I would argue it's me and those that see it the same way that are in the 'real world', while the pro MT guys are in a pretend dev created world of rationalisation, spin, and outright lies created to justify charging you, the customer, more money for the same thing.
To OP: Dont like it? dont play it. If you dont like MT's in game the best you do is not playing it. In my opinion the community as a whole should stop playing games with sub + MTs . Why? Becouse MTs on top of subs, in my opinon are just greed. No matter if they are only fluff items or not.
I agree, and this is why I have cancelled
I would agree with you IF the items for purchase were items that improved your character or gave you an advantage. Usually that's what a cashshop is for. Since they are items that change your look, give you an emote, change your name , or legion name I have no problems with it. It's not something anyone needs so they are not making you buy anything. I'm almost certain they will be one of the veteran rewards soon anyway. I would like to remind everyone that WOW charges to do these exact same things. Its not something to get your feathers ruffled about.
My feathers arnt ruffled, I have calmly explained my issues and stated why I am cancelling for good is all.
I should make clear though again that I don't mind paid services.
I have explained why MT, fluff or otherwise, in a sub game hurts every player though already, so if it's ok I will just cut'n'paste my response here?
I personally hate MT because 1) I don't see the sense of achievement in it, and 2) it is dishonest (it hides the true cost of play, while slowly ramping up your dependency on it once your make an emotional investment in the game).
It is also fully aimed at the young, gullible, naive, and 'addicted', which makes it pretty exploitative, especially in the methods they use to slowly reel users in (cheap and not required at first etc).
Corporations like MT because it makes them more money then subs, especially if they can get a sub as well. That money only comes from one place, and thats you and others like you. Hence it is undeniable that MT costs the gamer more for content that should be in anyhow in a sub based game.
To gain access to all the available content in a sub+MT based game simpy costs more then if it was sub only.
An argument for MT shops is simply an argument for more expensive gaming experiences.
Why would you as a intelligent and sensible consumer support that?
I'll use WOW as an example. They have offered these "paid services" for years and this has not lead to higher cost for the gamer. Guildwars a F2P offers paid services, once again doesn't not up the price of your gaming experience. Money made off these paid serivces is not some thing that the company expects you to pay because its an option. If anything, they make the gaming experience cheaper as a whole because they allow the company to make "extra" money and not have to up the sub fee. If you noticed inflation has increased but the sub fee stays the same....hmm I wonder how they do that without taking a hit in the pocket. Simple, give the player addition "options" but make them non-essential to the game. I have to go back to Blizz for they are the kings of this tactic. They sell clothes, swords, laptops, bags, mugs, and more in addition to collecting subs and paid services. NONE of which increases the cost to the player.
An intelligent player would support this because it helps keep gaming cost down and content rolling out!
To OP: Dont like it? dont play it. If you dont like MT's in game the best you do is not playing it. In my opinion the community as a whole should stop playing games with sub + MTs . Why? Becouse MTs on top of subs, in my opinon are just greed. No matter if they are only fluff items or not.
I agree, and this is why I have cancelled
I would agree with you IF the items for purchase were items that improved your character or gave you an advantage. Usually that's what a cashshop is for. Since they are items that change your look, give you an emote, change your name , or legion name I have no problems with it. It's not something anyone needs so they are not making you buy anything. I'm almost certain they will be one of the veteran rewards soon anyway. I would like to remind everyone that WOW charges to do these exact same things. Its not something to get your feathers ruffled about.
My feathers arnt ruffled, I have calmly explained my issues and stated why I am cancelling for good is all.
I should make clear though again that I don't mind paid services.
I have explained why MT, fluff or otherwise, in a sub game hurts every player though already, so if it's ok I will just cut'n'paste my response here?
I personally hate MT because 1) I don't see the sense of achievement in it, and 2) it is dishonest (it hides the true cost of play, while slowly ramping up your dependency on it once your make an emotional investment in the game).
It is also fully aimed at the young, gullible, naive, and 'addicted', which makes it pretty exploitative, especially in the methods they use to slowly reel users in (cheap and not required at first etc).
Corporations like MT because it makes them more money then subs, especially if they can get a sub as well. That money only comes from one place, and thats you and others like you. Hence it is undeniable that MT costs the gamer more for content that should be in anyhow in a sub based game.
To gain access to all the available content in a sub+MT based game simpy costs more then if it was sub only.
An argument for MT shops is simply an argument for more expensive gaming experiences.
Why would you as a intelligent and sensible consumer support that?
I'll use WOW as an example. They have offered these "paid services" for years and this has not lead to higher cost for the gamer. Guildwars a F2P offers paid services, once again doesn't not up the price of your gaming experience. Money made off these paid serivces is not some thing that the company expects you to pay because its an option. If anything, they make the gaming experience cheaper as a whole because they allow the company to make "extra" money and not have to up the sub fee. If you noticed inflation has increased but the sub fee stays the same....hmm I wonder how they do that without taking a hit in the pocket.
I will say again i have no problems with paid services in a sub game.
As for inflation... are you telling me that small indie devs such as Aventurine and Icarus can afford to run their games on a standard sub, but the corporate giants somehow can't?
Weird how these compaines make running costs and still make a profit really...
An intelligent player would support this because it helps keep gaming cost down and content rolling out!
It's keeps gaming costs down, and yet the devs make more money off it per head?
How does that work?
Can i ask you some honest questions though Lath?
Did you play 'F2P' games, Runescape or whatever, when you started out in this genre? Do you play them now?
Do you spend money on virtual items in cash shops?
To OP: Dont like it? dont play it. If you dont like MT's in game the best you do is not playing it. In my opinion the community as a whole should stop playing games with sub + MTs . Why? Becouse MTs on top of subs, in my opinon are just greed. No matter if they are only fluff items or not.
I agree, and this is why I have cancelled
I would agree with you IF the items for purchase were items that improved your character or gave you an advantage. Usually that's what a cashshop is for. Since they are items that change your look, give you an emote, change your name , or legion name I have no problems with it. It's not something anyone needs so they are not making you buy anything. I'm almost certain they will be one of the veteran rewards soon anyway. I would like to remind everyone that WOW charges to do these exact same things. Its not something to get your feathers ruffled about.
My feathers arnt ruffled, I have calmly explained my issues and stated why I am cancelling for good is all.
I should make clear though again that I don't mind paid services.
I have explained why MT, fluff or otherwise, in a sub game hurts every player though already, so if it's ok I will just cut'n'paste my response here?
I personally hate MT because 1) I don't see the sense of achievement in it, and 2) it is dishonest (it hides the true cost of play, while slowly ramping up your dependency on it once your make an emotional investment in the game).
It is also fully aimed at the young, gullible, naive, and 'addicted', which makes it pretty exploitative, especially in the methods they use to slowly reel users in (cheap and not required at first etc).
Corporations like MT because it makes them more money then subs, especially if they can get a sub as well. That money only comes from one place, and thats you and others like you. Hence it is undeniable that MT costs the gamer more for content that should be in anyhow in a sub based game.
To gain access to all the available content in a sub+MT based game simpy costs more then if it was sub only.
An argument for MT shops is simply an argument for more expensive gaming experiences.
Why would you as a intelligent and sensible consumer support that?
I'll use WOW as an example. They have offered these "paid services" for years and this has not lead to higher cost for the gamer. Guildwars a F2P offers paid services, once again doesn't not up the price of your gaming experience. Money made off these paid serivces is not some thing that the company expects you to pay because its an option. If anything, they make the gaming experience cheaper as a whole because they allow the company to make "extra" money and not have to up the sub fee. If you noticed inflation has increased but the sub fee stays the same....hmm I wonder how they do that without taking a hit in the pocket.
I will say again i have no problems with paid services in a sub game.
As for inflation... are you telling me that small indie devs such as Aventurine and Icarus can afford to run their games on a standard sub, but the corporate giants somehow can't?
Weird how these compaines make running costs and still make a profit really...
An intelligent player would support this because it helps keep gaming cost down and content rolling out!
It's keeps gaming costs down, and yet the devs make more money off it per head?
How does that work?
Well inflation means more thank cost of running a buisness going up. Inflations means the value of a currency going down. So $15 sub may have paid the bills before but now its streched a bit thin. Simple economics, even the double cheese burger when up in price and Mcdonald is a huge company. The gaming industry has seemed to remain un touched by economics but the truth is they have only manuvered to accomodate change. The bigger the company the more revenue it takes to run it.
Well it works by keeping the consumer from suffering increased sub fees and the devs may make more money but really are they? No they are not because that money is not strictly given to the dev its distributed throughout the company. I mean come on the people have to get raises and quarterly bonuses for corporate peeps. Would you work at a job that didn't give you raises or bonuses? That's what I mean by being realistic..for you its a game to them its a job.
My feathers arnt ruffled, I have calmly explained my issues and stated why I am cancelling for good is all. I should make clear though again that I don't mind paid services. I have explained why MT, fluff or otherwise, in a sub game hurts every player though already, so if it's ok I will just cut'n'paste my response here? I personally hate MT because 1) I don't see the sense of achievement in it, and 2) it is dishonest (it hides the true cost of play, while slowly ramping up your dependency on it once your make an emotional investment in the game). It is also fully aimed at the young, gullible, naive, and 'addicted', which makes it pretty exploitative, especially in the methods they use to slowly reel users in (cheap and not required at first etc). Corporations like MT because it makes them more money then subs, especially if they can get a sub as well. That money only comes from one place, and thats you and others like you. Hence it is undeniable that MT costs the gamer more for content that should be in anyhow in a sub based game. To gain access to all the available content in a sub+MT based game simpy costs more then if it was sub only. An argument for MT shops is simply an argument for more expensive gaming experiences. Why would you as a intelligent and sensible consumer support that?
I'll use WOW as an example. They have offered these "paid services" for years and this has not lead to higher cost for the gamer. Guildwars a F2P offers paid services, once again doesn't not up the price of your gaming experience. Money made off these paid serivces is not some thing that the company expects you to pay because its an option. If anything, they make the gaming experience cheaper as a whole because they allow the company to make "extra" money and not have to up the sub fee. If you noticed inflation has increased but the sub fee stays the same....hmm I wonder how they do that without taking a hit in the pocket.
I will say again i have no problems with paid services in a sub game.
As for inflation... are you telling me that small indie devs such as Aventurine and Icarus can afford to run their games on a standard sub, but the corporate giants somehow can't?
Weird how these compaines make running costs and still make a profit really...
An intelligent player would support this because it helps keep gaming cost down and content rolling out!
It's keeps gaming costs down, and yet the devs make more money off it per head?
How does that work?
So $15 sub may have paid the bills before but now its streched a bit thin. Simple economics, even the double cheese burger when up in price and Mcdonald is a huge company.
Erm.. but McDonalds were honest in their price raise, they didnt hide it in selling you the component pieces of a cheese burger for more then what it would have cost to buy it whole...
Listen, I think we have kinda gone off track here somewhat... Noone is arguing that prices don't have to go up in line with inflation. I would be happy to pay a fair increase in subs if it kept the game honest, as I have been doing since I first subbed to EQ in '99.
I think it is the revenue model type we are discussing and how much more MT steathly charges the user over a sub model game (that is in line with inflation) for a equivalent product.
The debate here is about an open clear model that provides an even play field with equal access to content (subs) vs a deceptive one that intentionally hides the true cost of play while hiking that cost through the roof.
The gaming industry has seemed to remain un touched by economics but the truth is they have only manuvered to accomodate change. The bigger the company the more revenue it takes to run it.
'manuvered to accomodate change'... hehe you should work for them. Spin city ;P
Can you honestly tell me that NCS makes less profit per head on a sub for Aion then, say, Aventurine do with Darkfall? Simply because they are a bigger company? Really? I don't think so personally.
Well it works by keeping the consumer from suffering increased sub fees and the devs may make more money but really are they?
Well, yes, they are.
No they are not because that money is not strictly given to the dev its distributed throughout the company. I mean come on the people have to get raises and quarterly bonuses for corporate peeps
No matter how NCS choose to dispose of their revenue (be it bonuses etc as you suggest, or actually investing it back into the game), they still have made that revenue.. therefore, yeah, the company ('dev') HAS made more money off MT then subs.
By your argument here though, you seem to be saying that people actually pay more under MT in order to fund raises and bonuses?
No wonder so much of the mmorpg industry wants it so bad lol.
My feathers arnt ruffled, I have calmly explained my issues and stated why I am cancelling for good is all. I should make clear though again that I don't mind paid services. I have explained why MT, fluff or otherwise, in a sub game hurts every player though already, so if it's ok I will just cut'n'paste my response here? I personally hate MT because 1) I don't see the sense of achievement in it, and 2) it is dishonest (it hides the true cost of play, while slowly ramping up your dependency on it once your make an emotional investment in the game). It is also fully aimed at the young, gullible, naive, and 'addicted', which makes it pretty exploitative, especially in the methods they use to slowly reel users in (cheap and not required at first etc). Corporations like MT because it makes them more money then subs, especially if they can get a sub as well. That money only comes from one place, and thats you and others like you. Hence it is undeniable that MT costs the gamer more for content that should be in anyhow in a sub based game. To gain access to all the available content in a sub+MT based game simpy costs more then if it was sub only. An argument for MT shops is simply an argument for more expensive gaming experiences. Why would you as a intelligent and sensible consumer support that?
I'll use WOW as an example. They have offered these "paid services" for years and this has not lead to higher cost for the gamer. Guildwars a F2P offers paid services, once again doesn't not up the price of your gaming experience. Money made off these paid serivces is not some thing that the company expects you to pay because its an option. If anything, they make the gaming experience cheaper as a whole because they allow the company to make "extra" money and not have to up the sub fee. If you noticed inflation has increased but the sub fee stays the same....hmm I wonder how they do that without taking a hit in the pocket.
I will say again i have no problems with paid services in a sub game.
As for inflation... are you telling me that small indie devs such as Aventurine and Icarus can afford to run their games on a standard sub, but the corporate giants somehow can't?
Weird how these compaines make running costs and still make a profit really...
An intelligent player would support this because it helps keep gaming cost down and content rolling out!
It's keeps gaming costs down, and yet the devs make more money off it per head?
How does that work?
So $15 sub may have paid the bills before but now its streched a bit thin. Simple economics, even the double cheese burger when up in price and Mcdonald is a huge company.
Erm.. but McDonalds were honest in their price raise, they didnt hide it in selling you the component pieces of a cheese burger for more then what it would have cost to buy it whole...
Listen, I think we have kinda gone off track here somewhat... Noone is arguing that prices don't have to go up in line with inflation. I would be happy to pay a fair increase in subs if it kept the game honest, as I have been doing since I first subbed to EQ in '99.
I think it is the revenue model type we are discussing and how much more MT steathly charges the user over a sub model game (that is in line with inflation) for a equivalent product.
The debate here is about an open clear model that provides an even play field with equal access to content (subs) vs a deceptive one that intentionally hides the true cost of play while hiking that cost through the roof.
The gaming industry has seemed to remain un touched by economics but the truth is they have only manuvered to accomodate change. The bigger the company the more revenue it takes to run it.
'manuvered to accomodate change'... hehe you should work for them. Spin city ;P
Can you honestly tell me that NCS makes less profit per head on a sub for Aion then, say, Aventurine do with Darkfall? Simply because they are a bigger company? Really? I don't think so personally.
Well it works by keeping the consumer from suffering increased sub fees and the devs may make more money but really are they?
Well, yes, they are.
No they are not because that money is not strictly given to the dev its distributed throughout the company. I mean come on the people have to get raises and quarterly bonuses for corporate peeps
No matter how NCS choose to dispose of their revenue (be it bonuses etc as you suggest, or actually investing it back into the game), they still have made that revenue.. therefore, yeah, the company ('dev') HAS made more money off MT then subs.
By your argument here though, you seem to be saying that people actually pay more under MT in order to fund raises and bonuses?
No wonder so much of the mmorpg industry wants it so bad lol.
I think the main point I'm trying to make here is that cost to the players is not going up on the sub montly end. These are the new tactics games are using to rake in additional revenue. I personal would choose optional paided service items over higher sub costs.
Btw I can see your side of the convo and I enjoy our debate! >: )
I think the main point I'm trying to make here is that cost to the players is not going up on the sub montly end. These are the new tactics games are using to rake in additional revenue. I personal would choose optional paided service items over higher sub costs. Btw I can see your side of the convo and I enjoy our debate! >: )
yeah, nice to have a chat with someone who dosent see me as their mortal enemy just because we have different views lol.
I get what your saying about the subs being kept down, but I wonder how true that is... I mean, i am definitly paying more for subs these days and since '99 I have seen a slow rise in monthly pricing. If that isnt enough, which I wouldnt be offended if they said it wasnt, they could easily slap another £1 on that (which in a average game of 250,000 users would prolly net them £3,000,000 or so more a year extra) which really should be enough to absorb inflation and whatever. No problems and noone offended (well, noone sensible).
With MT in a game like Aion they get to charge a premium sub AND gain the revenue far in excess of an extra £1 a month from each user...
I mean, £5.99 for a seasonal event pack, half of which is recycled content? Thats not even sane pricing.
I think it's very obvious that this is just the water tester to try out market tolerance of the model in this game. If it is supported and accepted then how long before we see more and more packs being introduced into the NCS store? How long before in game rewards that become 'essential' to play? £20 to gain the L40 vet award wings for your character? Lodas amulets for £2 each? How about to complete your daevian armour? Want some Abyss points? Kinah?
The more that is accepted, the more they will push.
I honestly have no trust or faith in NCS after how they have handled Aion up to now, and I have no belief that they will do the 'right thing' by the game or their customers, only by their accountants and shareholders.
Despite the spin and pleading broke many devs use in order to justify and rationalise MT in their games, I think it is obvious that NCS are making amazing profits off just the sub alone for Aion. Noone would mind this I am sure, but with their push for more, more, MORE, while giving less and less, they are just stepping over the line from fairly won profit into blatant exploitative greed.
I think the main point I'm trying to make here is that cost to the players is not going up on the sub montly end. These are the new tactics games are using to rake in additional revenue. I personal would choose optional paided service items over higher sub costs. Btw I can see your side of the convo and I enjoy our debate! >: )
yeah, nice to have a chat with someone who dosent see me as their mortal enemy just because we have different views lol.
I get what your saying about the subs being kept down, but I wonder how true that is... I mean, i am definitly paying more for subs these days and since '99 I have seen a slow rise in monthly pricing. If that isnt enough, which I wouldnt be offended if they said it wasnt, they could easily slap another £1 on that (which in a average game of 250,000 users would prolly net them £3,000,000 or so more a year extra) which really should be enough to absorb inflation and whatever. No problems and noone offended (well, noone sensible).
With MT in a game like Aion they get to charge a premium sub AND gain the revenue far in excess of an extra £1 a month from each user...
I mean, £5.99 for a seasonal event pack, half of which is recycled content? Thats not even sane pricing.
I think it's very obvious that this is just the water tester to try out market tolerance of the model in this game. If it is supported and accepted then how long before we see more and more packs being introduced into the NCS store? How long before in game rewards that become 'essential' to play? £20 to gain the L40 vet award wings for your character? Lodas amulets for £2 each? How about to complete your daevian armour? Want some Abyss points? Kinah?
The more that is accepted, the more they will push.
I honestly have no trust or faith in NCS after how they have handled Aion up to now, and I have no belief that they will do the 'right thing' by the game or their customers, only by their accountants and shareholders.
Despite the spin and pleading broke many devs use in order to justify and rationalise MT in their games, I think it is obvious that NCS are making amazing profits off just the sub alone for Aion. Noone would mind this I am sure, but with their push for more, more, MORE, while giving less and less, they are just stepping over the line from fairly won profit into blatant exploitative greed.
Thats how I see it anyhow ;P
I don't really think that Ncsoft west is trying to get money becasue they are broke but I think we all know that subs is never a sure thing (Mythic). You need to find a way to keep money coming in. Yes subs have went up over the years and many players didn't like it.. Companies had to find a way to survive when inflation goes up. Paid services, collectible items and pre-orders are the answers. Will this lead to items for sale that are essenstial to play? I strongly doubt it. Because believe it or not companies want to keep their players happy (within reason). I have noticed a trend in the gaming industry lately where the companies offer items, downloads and even head-start guides for people to pre-order. They are taking steps to insure their survival with minimal impact on the players while at the same time making the player think he got something out of the deal.
Time will tell where this is going. As I see it now, Ncsoft is taking steps to insure that they can continue their game, develop content and still make a profit. I mean they still have to make a profit or there would be no game. Its terrible but true.
I think the main point I'm trying to make here is that cost to the players is not going up on the sub montly end. These are the new tactics games are using to rake in additional revenue. I personal would choose optional paided service items over higher sub costs. Btw I can see your side of the convo and I enjoy our debate! >: )
yeah, nice to have a chat with someone who dosent see me as their mortal enemy just because we have different views lol.
I get what your saying about the subs being kept down, but I wonder how true that is... I mean, i am definitly paying more for subs these days and since '99 I have seen a slow rise in monthly pricing. If that isnt enough, which I wouldnt be offended if they said it wasnt, they could easily slap another £1 on that (which in a average game of 250,000 users would prolly net them £3,000,000 or so more a year extra) which really should be enough to absorb inflation and whatever. No problems and noone offended (well, noone sensible).
With MT in a game like Aion they get to charge a premium sub AND gain the revenue far in excess of an extra £1 a month from each user...
I mean, £5.99 for a seasonal event pack, half of which is recycled content? Thats not even sane pricing.
I think it's very obvious that this is just the water tester to try out market tolerance of the model in this game. If it is supported and accepted then how long before we see more and more packs being introduced into the NCS store? How long before in game rewards that become 'essential' to play? £20 to gain the L40 vet award wings for your character? Lodas amulets for £2 each? How about to complete your daevian armour? Want some Abyss points? Kinah?
The more that is accepted, the more they will push.
I honestly have no trust or faith in NCS after how they have handled Aion up to now, and I have no belief that they will do the 'right thing' by the game or their customers, only by their accountants and shareholders.
Despite the spin and pleading broke many devs use in order to justify and rationalise MT in their games, I think it is obvious that NCS are making amazing profits off just the sub alone for Aion. Noone would mind this I am sure, but with their push for more, more, MORE, while giving less and less, they are just stepping over the line from fairly won profit into blatant exploitative greed.
Thats how I see it anyhow ;P
I don't really think that Ncsoft west is trying to get money becasue they are broke but I think we all know that subs is never a sure thing (Mythic). You need to find a way to keep money coming in. Yes subs have went up over the years and many players didn't like it.. Companies had to find a way to survive when inflation goes up. Paid services, collectible items and pre-orders are the answers. Will this lead to items for sale that are essenstial to play? I strongly doubt it. Because believe it or not companies want to keep their players happy (within reason). I have noticed a trend in the gaming industry lately where the companies offer items, downloads and even head-start guides for people to pre-order. They are taking steps to insure their survival with minimal impact on the players while at the same time making the player think he got something out of the deal.
Time will tell where this is going. As I see it now, Ncsoft is taking steps to insure that they can continue their game, develop content and still make a profit. I mean they still have to make a profit or there would be no game. Its terrible but true.
But surely the basic point is that Aion, on a premium sub, is already hugely profitable globally. I mean, look at their recent financial report...
This isnt a company struggling to survive on a subscription model in the west... their profit on this game alone is mind blowing. I don't see the sudden need now to introduce MT to somehow rescue them and allow them to keep developing.
This isnt 'do or die', as you seem to suggest at the end of your post- the MT revenue is EXTRA, and whats more it's extra in a game thats not 'complete' (in the MMORPG sense) and that annoys a lot of people.
Even if I supported the MT model, I would still say that NCS's timing (putting it in before fixing/ filling out the core product to what many consider a AAA standard) is terrible and has left a sour taste in a lot of peoples mouths. It shows priorities and their true 'vision' of the game- ie a cash cow only existing to be fed on the cheapest hay and be milked, and milked, and milked, while all the time telling it how great it's life will be in the future...
Look, back on track, It honestly isnt a case of introduce MT or die... MT or no game. Lets not keep suggesting that is the only truth. MT isnt the only way forward, it's just the way forward that revenue can be 'maximised' for minimum investment on their part. In short, how to give us less and charge us more, while hiding the fact thats what they are doing.
Charging £5.99 for a valentine event pack (of mostly recycled content) is the perfect example of this.
This may be great for them, and their corporate bonuses as you say, but it's rubbish for the customer, and it honestly confuses me why any customer argues for it and supports it. Not saying you havent the right to think what you want, but I don't get it and never will.
I have highlighted 'think' in red in your quote because thats exactly what it is all about... A model that charges more for less, while allowing the customer to think they got something out of it. In truth though they didnt ofc. MT is all smoke and mirrors- false value and hidden cost.
Thank you OP. I will never sub to this game based on your post. What does my 15$ a month pay for? If not for holiday goodies and content update. From the days of UO to the days of WoW... and none inbetween, have ever charged for simple content that should just be included. Holiday events are a fun part of the game, a game you already pay for.
Thank you OP. I will never sub to this game based on your post. What does my 15$ a month pay for? If not for holiday goodies and content update. From the days of UO to the days of WoW... and none inbetween, have ever charged for simple content that should just be included. Holiday events are a fun part of the game, a game you already pay for.
Well I hope you never sub any other MMO as well. They all offer paid services...including WOW. Go to their websites if you don't believe me. For example WOW makes you pay to buy a trading card then you can apply the code in-game for items. I think you guys have missed the original point I was making...sub cost have stayed the same for a long time...if you don't want MT or paid services, how do you purpose to generate revenue without driving up the cost of subs? I understand that you don't like it but realistically the monthly fee is obviously not enough to sustain these companies.
Comments
Then what the hell are you doing on a MMORPG website ? In a matter of fact, I think you are just like "I want attention" here, as for what I can understand from your posts,
... not liking CE versions or MT means I shouldnt like MMORPGs? Thats pretty silly by anyone's standards.
I post here for the same reason as everyone else. To talk about MMORPGs.
you can NOT play any MMO's because of your "rules". F2P = Cash Shop = RMT = "No ty for you". P2P = CE = RMT ( more ,less or none ) = "No ty for you". So, again .. what are you doing here? Seriously, you just keep saying bullshit every time , when someone just start saying something against you, but then .. when THIS guy comes and say "I agree with the OP" you are like "Oh see? I told you I am right" .
I have taken apart all your points of argument so far to the stage where you would rather ignore them and let them slide back a few pages then address them or defend them, and yet you simply call them 'bullshit'.
OK, heres some more 'bullshit' for you...
Existing games such as Darkfall or Fallen Earth, amongst others, and new ones coming (such as Earthrise), don't use MT. As a non MT gamer (as opposed to a 'MT shopper') there are still games for me to play and sub based games prove themselves as profitable and viable every day.
I would obviously like more though, so I talk about it on forums and try to re inforce the point that MT is a bad bad deal for the customer and just trades off the gullible, 'addicted', vain, and lazy.
Are you against the companies which makes MORE money then you wanted to? When you will own a company, please come back ok? EVERY company in this earth wants to make money. Where have u living?
No.
I have addressed this repeatedly, and to be honest it's hard to keep saying the same thing to you only to have you once more post like I have said nothing.
Profit is fine. Profit isnt the same as profiteering.
I have even given examples of modern games that are thriving (and by thriving I mean getting paid, giving free game development, and expanding their live team) on a 100% based sub based revenue model.
And btw, I am self employed and I DO own a company.
lol I know...
In all the debates that I have had on this topic on these boards, and there have been many, only 1 person ever has confessed to buying MT items in games. All the others have always said 'I support cash shops because they are the trend, but I don't use them'...
Seeing as 'noone uses them', how MT cash shops make more money for devs then subs, it makes you wonder where all that extra cash comes from eh?
It almost as if people who fall for cash shops are a little embarrased about it...
lol, well i would use Cash shop if there was anything decent in them heh, i will pass on the flower hat heh.
lol Frog
I might not share your view on MT, but at least your honest!
Then what the hell are you doing on a MMORPG website ? In a matter of fact, I think you are just "I want attention" here, as for what I can understand from your posts, you can NOT play any MMO's because of your "laws". F2P = Cash Shop = RMT = "No ty for you". P2P = CE = RMT ( more ,less or none ) = "No ty for you". So, again .. what are you doing here? Seriously, you just keep saying bullshit every time , when someone just start saying something against you, but then .. when THIS guy comes and say "I agree with the OP" you are like "Oh see? I told you I am right" .
Are you against the companies which makes MORE money then you wanted to? When you will own a company, please come back ok? EVERY company in this earth ( games or no-games ) wants to make money. Where have u living?
I will stop responding to this thread from now one. It so pointless, but please , keep QQ while others are enjoy their game
Can someone please translate this for me?
Yea well, I edited my post a little bit ( my english is , not my main language so stfu ). Now , if you didn't followed all this thread stfu ( again) and leave, or just .. do it ok? Next time, don't just read only a post and make pointless comments!
Now shu!
You have quite a bit of attitude for being absolutely wrong.
The point of all this is that while a CE is going for money you are getting something for that money. What NCSoft is doing with P2P-Cashshop is charging you for something you already paid for. Your $15 a month goes for funding servers and content patches, that they have yet to put out. The valentines day stuff they are charging for should have been included in that $15 payment, especially since it cost NCSoft next to nothing since it was developed and funded on the Asian side.
AION will be held to the same $15 standard of all MMO's. They are trying to double dip and it is blatantly obvious. If they want to start charging for content that the $15 monthly paid for then they need to go F2P-Cash shop.
To OP: Dont like it? dont play it. If you dont like MT's in game the best you do is not playing it. In my opinion the community as a whole should stop playing games with sub + MTs . Why? Becouse MTs on top of subs, in my opinon are just greed. No matter if they are only fluff items or not. Fluff items should be given as rewards for bying expansion packs or preordering.
At least there are some people out there can see through what they want me to be saying, to see what I am actually saying.
Thank you.
you realise there is red dyes in the game you cam get for free right? there is petals in game that comes from gathering.
I agree, and this is why I have cancelled
I agree, and this is why I have cancelled
I would agree with you IF the items for purchase were items that improved your character or gave you an advantage. Usually that's what a cashshop is for. Since they are items that change your look, give you an emote, change your name , or legion name I have no problems with it. It's not something anyone needs so they are not making you buy anything. I'm almost certain they will be one of the veteran rewards soon anyway. I would like to remind everyone that WOW charges to do these exact same things. Its not something to get your feathers ruffled about.
I can shed some light for the OP...
Lack of content was obvious as was the linear game play from day 1,you supported that so why change now?
Lamest events i have seen can NEVER be worse than in ROM,the reason is probably because it is using the same GM's.NCSOFT pretty much runs gamania a very shotty organization and ROM i am pretty sure uses the same GM.These GM's are contracted to show up on set times and run events at set times,they will NEVER do any more than they have to and really do not care of the quality of the event as long as they meet their contract rules.
Once again in game bot control or hack prevention has NEVER been taken care of by NCSOFT,they even tried to outright lie to you the players as they had planned to release the game using a VERY well known of a failure called Nguard.Ask yourself WHY?why would NCSOFT try to pan off an anti hack that has proven to NEVER work?
Forums..no comment really,all moderators do in forums USUALLY is ban people,mods rarely in any game forum do much to answer questions or support the game.A BLATANT example i witnessed through these gamania GM's was players questions never got answered but when a player told them how pleased he was of their events,there was an instant spam of GM's saying thank you,so they are their but only to pat themselves on the back.This is especially pathetic when you consider how lame events are.
CORE systems....
Well all Aion ever bragged about was making your player look cute and flying,so did your eally expect content or a good game?This is no better than Blizzard spamming PR telling us we should play WOW because they have lots of subs.As far as moving along slowly,this should again be obvious IF you are a true Aion fan.The REASON is because after release they have moved the staff onto finishing the expansions,they were already working on TWO xpacs before Aion was even released,they are working on making more money from the players rather than create free content[not going to happen].This imo is a blatant misuse of content,instead of finishing the game so you had more choice of race more starting choices more polish,they instead released a half finished game and planned all along to split it into parts and make more money doing so,basically Guild Wars but with a subscription.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This is not really just directed at AION but more about the MT issue.
MT is becoming more and more a part of gaming, while I wish this wasnt this way, people just really need to start getting used to this sort of model, and this is expanding to offline games as well, I attended a recent talk from Peter Molyneux where he has stated that their plan for Fable is to sell content in game through MT, this is expanding to pretty much every game out there.
While I dont agree this is a "fancy" or even good model to try and scrap more money out of your fanbase, there might be advantages if this is done correctly, the first one being, sustained development, we may be talking about fluff items and potions, but when you extend this to core content you have a winner, with smaller highly developed content, its in the interest of the developer to have higher quality small content if they want to sell, it also allows the developer to give you previews of the content in game.
So instead of having to fork out 30-40USD for an expansion that usually is focused around one selling point and many mediocre changes/implementations, you could buy little bits for 2-3USD, where the developer has focused their full design and attention to, so every bit you buy will be of higher quality, ofc this is in theory but in the end MT may not be a bad thing if done correctly, with the right model and overall pricing.
It could also solve the problem we have today of MMO's getting more and more complex that 90% of the time they dont deliver on all their features at release and piss off the player base, so instead you could buy a "part" of the game at release that is not complete and then have access to a "road map" of the development where you can purchase the additional content as its ready, and tested, this would also bring fanbase and developers together into developing the game YOU want to play rather than being disapointed with the overall package you get handed.
I agree, and this is why I have cancelled
I would agree with you IF the items for purchase were items that improved your character or gave you an advantage. Usually that's what a cashshop is for. Since they are items that change your look, give you an emote, change your name , or legion name I have no problems with it. It's not something anyone needs so they are not making you buy anything. I'm almost certain they will be one of the veteran rewards soon anyway. I would like to remind everyone that WOW charges to do these exact same things. Its not something to get your feathers ruffled about.
My feathers arnt ruffled, I have calmly explained my issues and stated why I am cancelling for good is all.
I should make clear though again that I don't mind paid services.
I have explained why MT, fluff or otherwise, in a sub game hurts every player though already, so if it's ok I will just cut'n'paste my response here?
I personally hate MT because 1) I don't see the sense of achievement in it, and 2) it is dishonest (it hides the true cost of play, while slowly ramping up your dependency on it once your make an emotional investment in the game).
It is also fully aimed at the young, gullible, naive, and 'addicted', which makes it pretty exploitative, especially in the methods they use to slowly reel users in (cheap and not required at first etc).
Corporations like MT because it makes them more money then subs, especially if they can get a sub as well. That money only comes from one place, and thats you and others like you. Hence it is undeniable that MT costs the gamer more for content that should be in anyhow in a sub based game.
To gain access to all the available content in a sub+MT based game simpy costs more then if it was sub only.
An argument for MT shops is simply an argument for more expensive gaming experiences.
Why would you as a intelligent and sensible consumer support that?
I agree about the valentine pack they should of made it an event and you could get some fo those rewards ingame but the rest of the stuff are technical stuff nothing ingame.
Name, server (not yet in but it will), guild changes shouldn't be made free else there could be griefers and @ssholes that can flee easily after they do damage to a server or to persons in that particular server.
I wouldn't enjoy it if what happened in darkfall that guy kept on taking all stuff in bank could flee to another server or change name and do it x number of times without being penalised.
Character recustomization yeah it's a mixed opinion here because I would like if once in a long while they would make some event or you could get it from eveteran rewards after x months to have a free recustomization available but on the other hand I would hate to see people look dumb on purpose just because they know they can change how they look "freely" so a price would be good there too.
All the points I wrote here for me looks more a problem with immature customers then a company because there wouldn't be much problems if some of these features could be obtainable ingame once in a long while but it can result in some griefing and/or immature people that think they are funny =/
Ncsoft removed gameguard a few weeks before release due to many player complaints about issues with it. I had to break it to you but bots and spammers will plague all games from now on. Go look at STO forums, already people are seeing that Aion is not the only game getting farmed.
Aion west has already announced more content coming out this year. I would venture to say that letting playes get used to the game before dumping more content out is a good thing. I mean the game has barely been out 5 monthes! Also paid services is hardly a "money maker" if anything its merely nickle and dime way to offer you other customization options.
As far as content goes, the US/EU version of Aion already received "free" content. Since the game has been out a year in Korea we received most of the updates they already had, which included instances (Steel Rake Dark Poeta) and quests.
Simply put MMO's are out to make money. Without that money the game wouldn't exist. Everyone out here is acting like MMO should be handing out free everything cause we pay a monthly sub. You get what you pay for. Let's step into the real world...content,manpower, overhead, employees, testing, etc all these things cost money.
I agree, and this is why I have cancelled
I would agree with you IF the items for purchase were items that improved your character or gave you an advantage. Usually that's what a cashshop is for. Since they are items that change your look, give you an emote, change your name , or legion name I have no problems with it. It's not something anyone needs so they are not making you buy anything. I'm almost certain they will be one of the veteran rewards soon anyway. I would like to remind everyone that WOW charges to do these exact same things. Its not something to get your feathers ruffled about.
My feathers arnt ruffled, I have calmly explained my issues and stated why I am cancelling for good is all.
I should make clear though again that I don't mind paid services.
I have explained why MT, fluff or otherwise, in a sub game hurts every player though already, so if it's ok I will just cut'n'paste my response here?
I personally hate MT because 1) I don't see the sense of achievement in it, and 2) it is dishonest (it hides the true cost of play, while slowly ramping up your dependency on it once your make an emotional investment in the game).
It is also fully aimed at the young, gullible, naive, and 'addicted', which makes it pretty exploitative, especially in the methods they use to slowly reel users in (cheap and not required at first etc).
Corporations like MT because it makes them more money then subs, especially if they can get a sub as well. That money only comes from one place, and thats you and others like you. Hence it is undeniable that MT costs the gamer more for content that should be in anyhow in a sub based game.
To gain access to all the available content in a sub+MT based game simpy costs more then if it was sub only.
An argument for MT shops is simply an argument for more expensive gaming experiences.
Why would you as a intelligent and sensible consumer support that?
I'll use WOW as an example. They have offered these "paid services" for years and this has not lead to higher cost for the gamer. Guildwars a F2P offers paid services, once again doesn't not up the price of your gaming experience. Money made off these paid serivces is not some thing that the company expects you to pay because its an option. If anything, they make the gaming experience cheaper as a whole because they allow the company to make "extra" money and not have to up the sub fee. If you noticed inflation has increased but the sub fee stays the same....hmm I wonder how they do that without taking a hit in the pocket. Simple, give the player addition "options" but make them non-essential to the game. I have to go back to Blizz for they are the kings of this tactic. They sell clothes, swords, laptops, bags, mugs, and more in addition to collecting subs and paid services. NONE of which increases the cost to the player.
An intelligent player would support this because it helps keep gaming cost down and content rolling out!
I agree, and this is why I have cancelled
I would agree with you IF the items for purchase were items that improved your character or gave you an advantage. Usually that's what a cashshop is for. Since they are items that change your look, give you an emote, change your name , or legion name I have no problems with it. It's not something anyone needs so they are not making you buy anything. I'm almost certain they will be one of the veteran rewards soon anyway. I would like to remind everyone that WOW charges to do these exact same things. Its not something to get your feathers ruffled about.
My feathers arnt ruffled, I have calmly explained my issues and stated why I am cancelling for good is all.
I should make clear though again that I don't mind paid services.
I have explained why MT, fluff or otherwise, in a sub game hurts every player though already, so if it's ok I will just cut'n'paste my response here?
I personally hate MT because 1) I don't see the sense of achievement in it, and 2) it is dishonest (it hides the true cost of play, while slowly ramping up your dependency on it once your make an emotional investment in the game).
It is also fully aimed at the young, gullible, naive, and 'addicted', which makes it pretty exploitative, especially in the methods they use to slowly reel users in (cheap and not required at first etc).
Corporations like MT because it makes them more money then subs, especially if they can get a sub as well. That money only comes from one place, and thats you and others like you. Hence it is undeniable that MT costs the gamer more for content that should be in anyhow in a sub based game.
To gain access to all the available content in a sub+MT based game simpy costs more then if it was sub only.
An argument for MT shops is simply an argument for more expensive gaming experiences.
Why would you as a intelligent and sensible consumer support that?
I'll use WOW as an example. They have offered these "paid services" for years and this has not lead to higher cost for the gamer. Guildwars a F2P offers paid services, once again doesn't not up the price of your gaming experience. Money made off these paid serivces is not some thing that the company expects you to pay because its an option. If anything, they make the gaming experience cheaper as a whole because they allow the company to make "extra" money and not have to up the sub fee. If you noticed inflation has increased but the sub fee stays the same....hmm I wonder how they do that without taking a hit in the pocket.
I will say again i have no problems with paid services in a sub game.
As for inflation... are you telling me that small indie devs such as Aventurine and Icarus can afford to run their games on a standard sub, but the corporate giants somehow can't?
Weird how these compaines make running costs and still make a profit really...
An intelligent player would support this because it helps keep gaming cost down and content rolling out!
It's keeps gaming costs down, and yet the devs make more money off it per head?
How does that work?
Can i ask you some honest questions though Lath?
Did you play 'F2P' games, Runescape or whatever, when you started out in this genre? Do you play them now?
Do you spend money on virtual items in cash shops?
I agree, and this is why I have cancelled
I would agree with you IF the items for purchase were items that improved your character or gave you an advantage. Usually that's what a cashshop is for. Since they are items that change your look, give you an emote, change your name , or legion name I have no problems with it. It's not something anyone needs so they are not making you buy anything. I'm almost certain they will be one of the veteran rewards soon anyway. I would like to remind everyone that WOW charges to do these exact same things. Its not something to get your feathers ruffled about.
My feathers arnt ruffled, I have calmly explained my issues and stated why I am cancelling for good is all.
I should make clear though again that I don't mind paid services.
I have explained why MT, fluff or otherwise, in a sub game hurts every player though already, so if it's ok I will just cut'n'paste my response here?
I personally hate MT because 1) I don't see the sense of achievement in it, and 2) it is dishonest (it hides the true cost of play, while slowly ramping up your dependency on it once your make an emotional investment in the game).
It is also fully aimed at the young, gullible, naive, and 'addicted', which makes it pretty exploitative, especially in the methods they use to slowly reel users in (cheap and not required at first etc).
Corporations like MT because it makes them more money then subs, especially if they can get a sub as well. That money only comes from one place, and thats you and others like you. Hence it is undeniable that MT costs the gamer more for content that should be in anyhow in a sub based game.
To gain access to all the available content in a sub+MT based game simpy costs more then if it was sub only.
An argument for MT shops is simply an argument for more expensive gaming experiences.
Why would you as a intelligent and sensible consumer support that?
I'll use WOW as an example. They have offered these "paid services" for years and this has not lead to higher cost for the gamer. Guildwars a F2P offers paid services, once again doesn't not up the price of your gaming experience. Money made off these paid serivces is not some thing that the company expects you to pay because its an option. If anything, they make the gaming experience cheaper as a whole because they allow the company to make "extra" money and not have to up the sub fee. If you noticed inflation has increased but the sub fee stays the same....hmm I wonder how they do that without taking a hit in the pocket.
I will say again i have no problems with paid services in a sub game.
As for inflation... are you telling me that small indie devs such as Aventurine and Icarus can afford to run their games on a standard sub, but the corporate giants somehow can't?
Weird how these compaines make running costs and still make a profit really...
An intelligent player would support this because it helps keep gaming cost down and content rolling out!
It's keeps gaming costs down, and yet the devs make more money off it per head?
How does that work?
Well inflation means more thank cost of running a buisness going up. Inflations means the value of a currency going down. So $15 sub may have paid the bills before but now its streched a bit thin. Simple economics, even the double cheese burger when up in price and Mcdonald is a huge company. The gaming industry has seemed to remain un touched by economics but the truth is they have only manuvered to accomodate change. The bigger the company the more revenue it takes to run it.
Well it works by keeping the consumer from suffering increased sub fees and the devs may make more money but really are they? No they are not because that money is not strictly given to the dev its distributed throughout the company. I mean come on the people have to get raises and quarterly bonuses for corporate peeps. Would you work at a job that didn't give you raises or bonuses? That's what I mean by being realistic..for you its a game to them its a job.
I'll use WOW as an example. They have offered these "paid services" for years and this has not lead to higher cost for the gamer. Guildwars a F2P offers paid services, once again doesn't not up the price of your gaming experience. Money made off these paid serivces is not some thing that the company expects you to pay because its an option. If anything, they make the gaming experience cheaper as a whole because they allow the company to make "extra" money and not have to up the sub fee. If you noticed inflation has increased but the sub fee stays the same....hmm I wonder how they do that without taking a hit in the pocket.
I will say again i have no problems with paid services in a sub game.
As for inflation... are you telling me that small indie devs such as Aventurine and Icarus can afford to run their games on a standard sub, but the corporate giants somehow can't?
Weird how these compaines make running costs and still make a profit really...
An intelligent player would support this because it helps keep gaming cost down and content rolling out!
It's keeps gaming costs down, and yet the devs make more money off it per head?
How does that work?
So $15 sub may have paid the bills before but now its streched a bit thin. Simple economics, even the double cheese burger when up in price and Mcdonald is a huge company.
Erm.. but McDonalds were honest in their price raise, they didnt hide it in selling you the component pieces of a cheese burger for more then what it would have cost to buy it whole...
Listen, I think we have kinda gone off track here somewhat... Noone is arguing that prices don't have to go up in line with inflation. I would be happy to pay a fair increase in subs if it kept the game honest, as I have been doing since I first subbed to EQ in '99.
I think it is the revenue model type we are discussing and how much more MT steathly charges the user over a sub model game (that is in line with inflation) for a equivalent product.
The debate here is about an open clear model that provides an even play field with equal access to content (subs) vs a deceptive one that intentionally hides the true cost of play while hiking that cost through the roof.
The gaming industry has seemed to remain un touched by economics but the truth is they have only manuvered to accomodate change. The bigger the company the more revenue it takes to run it.
'manuvered to accomodate change'... hehe you should work for them. Spin city ;P
Can you honestly tell me that NCS makes less profit per head on a sub for Aion then, say, Aventurine do with Darkfall? Simply because they are a bigger company? Really? I don't think so personally.
Well it works by keeping the consumer from suffering increased sub fees and the devs may make more money but really are they?
Well, yes, they are.
No they are not because that money is not strictly given to the dev its distributed throughout the company. I mean come on the people have to get raises and quarterly bonuses for corporate peeps
No matter how NCS choose to dispose of their revenue (be it bonuses etc as you suggest, or actually investing it back into the game), they still have made that revenue.. therefore, yeah, the company ('dev') HAS made more money off MT then subs.
By your argument here though, you seem to be saying that people actually pay more under MT in order to fund raises and bonuses?
No wonder so much of the mmorpg industry wants it so bad lol.
I'll use WOW as an example. They have offered these "paid services" for years and this has not lead to higher cost for the gamer. Guildwars a F2P offers paid services, once again doesn't not up the price of your gaming experience. Money made off these paid serivces is not some thing that the company expects you to pay because its an option. If anything, they make the gaming experience cheaper as a whole because they allow the company to make "extra" money and not have to up the sub fee. If you noticed inflation has increased but the sub fee stays the same....hmm I wonder how they do that without taking a hit in the pocket.
I will say again i have no problems with paid services in a sub game.
As for inflation... are you telling me that small indie devs such as Aventurine and Icarus can afford to run their games on a standard sub, but the corporate giants somehow can't?
Weird how these compaines make running costs and still make a profit really...
An intelligent player would support this because it helps keep gaming cost down and content rolling out!
It's keeps gaming costs down, and yet the devs make more money off it per head?
How does that work?
So $15 sub may have paid the bills before but now its streched a bit thin. Simple economics, even the double cheese burger when up in price and Mcdonald is a huge company.
Erm.. but McDonalds were honest in their price raise, they didnt hide it in selling you the component pieces of a cheese burger for more then what it would have cost to buy it whole...
Listen, I think we have kinda gone off track here somewhat... Noone is arguing that prices don't have to go up in line with inflation. I would be happy to pay a fair increase in subs if it kept the game honest, as I have been doing since I first subbed to EQ in '99.
I think it is the revenue model type we are discussing and how much more MT steathly charges the user over a sub model game (that is in line with inflation) for a equivalent product.
The debate here is about an open clear model that provides an even play field with equal access to content (subs) vs a deceptive one that intentionally hides the true cost of play while hiking that cost through the roof.
The gaming industry has seemed to remain un touched by economics but the truth is they have only manuvered to accomodate change. The bigger the company the more revenue it takes to run it.
'manuvered to accomodate change'... hehe you should work for them. Spin city ;P
Can you honestly tell me that NCS makes less profit per head on a sub for Aion then, say, Aventurine do with Darkfall? Simply because they are a bigger company? Really? I don't think so personally.
Well it works by keeping the consumer from suffering increased sub fees and the devs may make more money but really are they?
Well, yes, they are.
No they are not because that money is not strictly given to the dev its distributed throughout the company. I mean come on the people have to get raises and quarterly bonuses for corporate peeps
No matter how NCS choose to dispose of their revenue (be it bonuses etc as you suggest, or actually investing it back into the game), they still have made that revenue.. therefore, yeah, the company ('dev') HAS made more money off MT then subs.
By your argument here though, you seem to be saying that people actually pay more under MT in order to fund raises and bonuses?
No wonder so much of the mmorpg industry wants it so bad lol.
I think the main point I'm trying to make here is that cost to the players is not going up on the sub montly end. These are the new tactics games are using to rake in additional revenue. I personal would choose optional paided service items over higher sub costs.
Btw I can see your side of the convo and I enjoy our debate! >: )
yeah, nice to have a chat with someone who dosent see me as their mortal enemy just because we have different views lol.
I get what your saying about the subs being kept down, but I wonder how true that is... I mean, i am definitly paying more for subs these days and since '99 I have seen a slow rise in monthly pricing. If that isnt enough, which I wouldnt be offended if they said it wasnt, they could easily slap another £1 on that (which in a average game of 250,000 users would prolly net them £3,000,000 or so more a year extra) which really should be enough to absorb inflation and whatever. No problems and noone offended (well, noone sensible).
With MT in a game like Aion they get to charge a premium sub AND gain the revenue far in excess of an extra £1 a month from each user...
I mean, £5.99 for a seasonal event pack, half of which is recycled content? Thats not even sane pricing.
I think it's very obvious that this is just the water tester to try out market tolerance of the model in this game. If it is supported and accepted then how long before we see more and more packs being introduced into the NCS store? How long before in game rewards that become 'essential' to play? £20 to gain the L40 vet award wings for your character? Lodas amulets for £2 each? How about to complete your daevian armour? Want some Abyss points? Kinah?
The more that is accepted, the more they will push.
I honestly have no trust or faith in NCS after how they have handled Aion up to now, and I have no belief that they will do the 'right thing' by the game or their customers, only by their accountants and shareholders.
Despite the spin and pleading broke many devs use in order to justify and rationalise MT in their games, I think it is obvious that NCS are making amazing profits off just the sub alone for Aion. Noone would mind this I am sure, but with their push for more, more, MORE, while giving less and less, they are just stepping over the line from fairly won profit into blatant exploitative greed.
Thats how I see it anyhow ;P
yeah, nice to have a chat with someone who dosent see me as their mortal enemy just because we have different views lol.
I get what your saying about the subs being kept down, but I wonder how true that is... I mean, i am definitly paying more for subs these days and since '99 I have seen a slow rise in monthly pricing. If that isnt enough, which I wouldnt be offended if they said it wasnt, they could easily slap another £1 on that (which in a average game of 250,000 users would prolly net them £3,000,000 or so more a year extra) which really should be enough to absorb inflation and whatever. No problems and noone offended (well, noone sensible).
With MT in a game like Aion they get to charge a premium sub AND gain the revenue far in excess of an extra £1 a month from each user...
I mean, £5.99 for a seasonal event pack, half of which is recycled content? Thats not even sane pricing.
I think it's very obvious that this is just the water tester to try out market tolerance of the model in this game. If it is supported and accepted then how long before we see more and more packs being introduced into the NCS store? How long before in game rewards that become 'essential' to play? £20 to gain the L40 vet award wings for your character? Lodas amulets for £2 each? How about to complete your daevian armour? Want some Abyss points? Kinah?
The more that is accepted, the more they will push.
I honestly have no trust or faith in NCS after how they have handled Aion up to now, and I have no belief that they will do the 'right thing' by the game or their customers, only by their accountants and shareholders.
Despite the spin and pleading broke many devs use in order to justify and rationalise MT in their games, I think it is obvious that NCS are making amazing profits off just the sub alone for Aion. Noone would mind this I am sure, but with their push for more, more, MORE, while giving less and less, they are just stepping over the line from fairly won profit into blatant exploitative greed.
Thats how I see it anyhow ;P
I don't really think that Ncsoft west is trying to get money becasue they are broke but I think we all know that subs is never a sure thing (Mythic). You need to find a way to keep money coming in. Yes subs have went up over the years and many players didn't like it.. Companies had to find a way to survive when inflation goes up. Paid services, collectible items and pre-orders are the answers. Will this lead to items for sale that are essenstial to play? I strongly doubt it. Because believe it or not companies want to keep their players happy (within reason). I have noticed a trend in the gaming industry lately where the companies offer items, downloads and even head-start guides for people to pre-order. They are taking steps to insure their survival with minimal impact on the players while at the same time making the player think he got something out of the deal.
Time will tell where this is going. As I see it now, Ncsoft is taking steps to insure that they can continue their game, develop content and still make a profit. I mean they still have to make a profit or there would be no game. Its terrible but true.
yeah, nice to have a chat with someone who dosent see me as their mortal enemy just because we have different views lol.
I get what your saying about the subs being kept down, but I wonder how true that is... I mean, i am definitly paying more for subs these days and since '99 I have seen a slow rise in monthly pricing. If that isnt enough, which I wouldnt be offended if they said it wasnt, they could easily slap another £1 on that (which in a average game of 250,000 users would prolly net them £3,000,000 or so more a year extra) which really should be enough to absorb inflation and whatever. No problems and noone offended (well, noone sensible).
With MT in a game like Aion they get to charge a premium sub AND gain the revenue far in excess of an extra £1 a month from each user...
I mean, £5.99 for a seasonal event pack, half of which is recycled content? Thats not even sane pricing.
I think it's very obvious that this is just the water tester to try out market tolerance of the model in this game. If it is supported and accepted then how long before we see more and more packs being introduced into the NCS store? How long before in game rewards that become 'essential' to play? £20 to gain the L40 vet award wings for your character? Lodas amulets for £2 each? How about to complete your daevian armour? Want some Abyss points? Kinah?
The more that is accepted, the more they will push.
I honestly have no trust or faith in NCS after how they have handled Aion up to now, and I have no belief that they will do the 'right thing' by the game or their customers, only by their accountants and shareholders.
Despite the spin and pleading broke many devs use in order to justify and rationalise MT in their games, I think it is obvious that NCS are making amazing profits off just the sub alone for Aion. Noone would mind this I am sure, but with their push for more, more, MORE, while giving less and less, they are just stepping over the line from fairly won profit into blatant exploitative greed.
Thats how I see it anyhow ;P
I don't really think that Ncsoft west is trying to get money becasue they are broke but I think we all know that subs is never a sure thing (Mythic). You need to find a way to keep money coming in. Yes subs have went up over the years and many players didn't like it.. Companies had to find a way to survive when inflation goes up. Paid services, collectible items and pre-orders are the answers. Will this lead to items for sale that are essenstial to play? I strongly doubt it. Because believe it or not companies want to keep their players happy (within reason). I have noticed a trend in the gaming industry lately where the companies offer items, downloads and even head-start guides for people to pre-order. They are taking steps to insure their survival with minimal impact on the players while at the same time making the player think he got something out of the deal.
Time will tell where this is going. As I see it now, Ncsoft is taking steps to insure that they can continue their game, develop content and still make a profit. I mean they still have to make a profit or there would be no game. Its terrible but true.
But surely the basic point is that Aion, on a premium sub, is already hugely profitable globally. I mean, look at their recent financial report...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269073/NCsoft-Q4-2009-financial-report-released-today-.html
This isnt a company struggling to survive on a subscription model in the west... their profit on this game alone is mind blowing. I don't see the sudden need now to introduce MT to somehow rescue them and allow them to keep developing.
This isnt 'do or die', as you seem to suggest at the end of your post- the MT revenue is EXTRA, and whats more it's extra in a game thats not 'complete' (in the MMORPG sense) and that annoys a lot of people.
Even if I supported the MT model, I would still say that NCS's timing (putting it in before fixing/ filling out the core product to what many consider a AAA standard) is terrible and has left a sour taste in a lot of peoples mouths. It shows priorities and their true 'vision' of the game- ie a cash cow only existing to be fed on the cheapest hay and be milked, and milked, and milked, while all the time telling it how great it's life will be in the future...
Look, back on track, It honestly isnt a case of introduce MT or die... MT or no game. Lets not keep suggesting that is the only truth. MT isnt the only way forward, it's just the way forward that revenue can be 'maximised' for minimum investment on their part. In short, how to give us less and charge us more, while hiding the fact thats what they are doing.
Charging £5.99 for a valentine event pack (of mostly recycled content) is the perfect example of this.
This may be great for them, and their corporate bonuses as you say, but it's rubbish for the customer, and it honestly confuses me why any customer argues for it and supports it. Not saying you havent the right to think what you want, but I don't get it and never will.
I have highlighted 'think' in red in your quote because thats exactly what it is all about... A model that charges more for less, while allowing the customer to think they got something out of it. In truth though they didnt ofc. MT is all smoke and mirrors- false value and hidden cost.
Thank you OP. I will never sub to this game based on your post. What does my 15$ a month pay for? If not for holiday goodies and content update. From the days of UO to the days of WoW... and none inbetween, have ever charged for simple content that should just be included. Holiday events are a fun part of the game, a game you already pay for.
Well I hope you never sub any other MMO as well. They all offer paid services...including WOW. Go to their websites if you don't believe me. For example WOW makes you pay to buy a trading card then you can apply the code in-game for items. I think you guys have missed the original point I was making...sub cost have stayed the same for a long time...if you don't want MT or paid services, how do you purpose to generate revenue without driving up the cost of subs? I understand that you don't like it but realistically the monthly fee is obviously not enough to sustain these companies.