In FACT that little post right there pretty much shows that they are following the WoW system (another single player mmo) of partying. In that system every other person with you adds an party bonus of ( for example) 25 extra point before it's devided.
By the way, they need to reign in their folks if they dont want people to think this is a single player game because according to this dude in this interview for X-play..... this is a single player game. This is going to be WoW in space with lightsabers.
Oh goodie! Another WoW hating troll! Can we have a discussion that doesn't involve bashing the most successful game ever? And for that matter, if you thik WoW is a single player game, then you haven't played it. Half the fucking game is instanced and required partys of 5-25 players.
In FACT that little post right there pretty much shows that they are following the WoW system (another single player mmo) of partying. In that system every other person with you adds an party bonus of ( for example) 25 extra point before it's devided.
By the way, they need to reign in their folks if they dont want people to think this is a single player game because according to this dude in this interview for X-play..... this is a single player game. This is going to be WoW in space with lightsabers.
Oh goodie! Another WoW hating troll! Can we have a discussion that doesn't involve bashing the most successful game ever? And for that matter, if you thik WoW is a single player game, then you haven't played it. Half the fucking game is instanced and required partys of 5-25 players.
I never made it to end game because I got bored of solofesting by the time I got to 50. Dungeons are grouped but quests can mostly be done solo. Maybe it was just my server that I played on but nobody wanted to group up besides a uber fast dungeon run and then everyone peaced out. So if Half the game is Endgame and Dungeons while you level then I see what you're getting at, but IME WoW was mostly a solofest game.
Edit: Oh and for the record no I do not hate WoW, Its just not the game for me.
In FACT that little post right there pretty much shows that they are following the WoW system (another single player mmo) of partying. In that system every other person with you adds an party bonus of ( for example) 25 extra point before it's devided.
By the way, they need to reign in their folks if they dont want people to think this is a single player game because according to this dude in this interview for X-play..... this is a single player game. This is going to be WoW in space with lightsabers.
Oh goodie! Another WoW hating troll! Can we have a discussion that doesn't involve bashing the most successful game ever? And for that matter, if you thik WoW is a single player game, then you haven't played it. Half the fucking game is instanced and required partys of 5-25 players.
I never made it to end game because I got bored of solofesting by the time I got to 50. Dungeons are grouped but quests can mostly be done solo. Maybe it was just my server that I played on but nobody wanted to group up besides a uber fast dungeon run and then everyone peaced out. So if Half the game is Endgame and Dungeons while you level then I see what you're getting at, but IME WoW was mostly a solofest game.
Edit: Oh and for the record no I do not hate WoW, Its just not the game for me.
So, what instance can you solo at appropriate level? I would LOVE to hear how you did it.
One thing that always made me laugh about people bitching about "Forced Grouping" , some people seem to bitch about it when they are leveling. But if you think about WoW or most any other games End Game what is it?. Well slap my ass and call me Sally its forced grouping. What do you do in WoW's endgame, you're forced to group up and either Raid or PvP. You can't solo those dungeons to get better gear can ya now? So WTF is the difference if you're forced to group up to level up your character? People never cease to amaze me.
Are you directing this at me? I never once complained of forced grouping. But, alright, have it your way.
WoW may force grouping for dungeons but again you're handed many options to choose from. Groups can go from small, medium to large. A large group can tackle some of the hardest content in the game, collecting badges for gear equivelent of that dropping in the dungeon. The medium group can take on the same dungeons on a different difficulty level, recieving lesser gear while gaining badges to get large group equivelent gear. A small group of five people can clear heroics all day making gold from the random dungeon system, they also get badges which can be used for some gear, the same gear every other group size can gather.
It's not about end game soloing, atleast for not for me and I would say most people. It's leveling, other activities, hell, even explorating. These should offer many options. PvP should be the same.
Originally posted by cukimunga Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
Originally posted by j_jonson
I want MMOs to go back to their original mold.
This will just cut down on the tremendous amounts of moron that get on these games just to screw around. This have people that LEARN how to actually play or else they dont get to play.
So you want MMOs to return to being crap.
Check.
Old MMO's may be crap to you but im sure you've heard the saying, "One mans trash is another mans treasure." I enjoy the old mmo's because they seem to be more about the adventure to max level not the race to max level.
Try Fallen Earth. I'm having a good deal of fun with it and it's a radical departure from what I'm used to playing (WoW, Lotro, WAR, AoC, Aion, etc).
Many will groan if I apply experience from Cryptic's games to TOR, but I think it is valid to say that if an MMO does not substantially force people to group, then they won't do it. The little tidbits I have heard about TOR's plans for group play, including this one, sound too much like Champions, it won't work. They need to reconsider forcing people to play in groups from the mid-game onwards, or it will be a solo-fest.
People like to be independent, that's just the way it is. Playing with friends is always fun, but when it comes to getting strangers to work together, it is like asking for help on a job you could do yourself.
I don't think they'll groan for bringing it up, but they will say your comparing apples with oranges. Or in this case, apples with limburger cheese. Just because Cryptic stinks at it doesn't mean Bioware does.
As far as the force grouping thing goes, screw that. If people ACTUALLY care about playing with others then they will be able to do so without a game mechanic forceing others to do it with them. Forced grouping doesn't work because many people play at odd hours and it isn't right that they can't play because of the fact that few are logged on at that moment.You also end up wasting long periods of time forming the thing only for it to fall apart for one reason or another. Most MMO companies have long since learned that the surest way to failure is to force people to group up just to play the game. If you like grouping so much, then form a guild that is all about grouping and have at it. Don't force other people to play the game the way you do.
The bit I've highlighted in yellow is ironic. You do realise that in a soloable MMO, those that wish to group will find it almost impossible to do so regularly due to the majority of the player base having no reason to do so. It puts players in exactly the same situation as forced grouping does when playing at odd hours. I really don't understand the argument to group if you want to in a soloable game... it doesn't work like that if no one else has any reason to want to group with you.
Also I'd disagree that ChampionsFan is comparing apples to oranges. As far as I've seen in EVERY MMO that's released, if you can solo, everyone will solo. It's as simple as that. WoW has the same XP bonus system that the OP is talking about and yet it never did anything to encourage grouping there, did it?
The only way to ever encourage players to group in an MMO is to basically make it more rewarding than solo play to the point that soloinbg is really only a last option for when you can't find a group. This has been proven by the countless soloable games released in recent years.
The bit I've highlighted in yellow is ironic. You do realise that in a soloable MMO, those that wish to group will find it almost impossible to do so regularly due to the majority of the player base having no reason to do so. It puts players in exactly the same situation as forced grouping does when playing at odd hours. I really don't understand the argument to group if you want to in a soloable game... it doesn't work like that if no one else has any reason to want to group with you.
Also I'd disagree that ChampionsFan is comparing apples to oranges. As far as I've seen in EVERY MMO that's released, if you can solo, everyone will solo. It's as simple as that. WoW has the same XP bonus system that the OP is talking about and yet it never did anything to encourage grouping there, did it?
The only way to ever encourage players to group in an MMO is to basically make it more rewarding than solo play to the point that soloinbg is really only a last option for when you can't find a group. This has been proven by the countless soloable games released in recent years.
Bullshit. I've had no problem finding people to group with in World of Warcraft. It's called join a guild and learn to use guild chat. More often than not I can find a few people to run something with. There are also guild events that are all about running a dungeon which you HAVE to be grouped with in order to complete. The devs for TOR already said that there will be content in which you have to group. You also have the option of joining someone in their mission and becoming part of the story. Many people will do this because while they know they can do the mission solo, having someone along will make the mission go a lot quicker. This is by far the best compromise.
This will just cut down on the tremendous amounts of moron that get on these games just to screw around. This have people that LEARN how to actually play or else they dont get to play.
So you want MMOs to return to being crap.
Check.
Old MMO's may be crap to you but im sure you've heard the saying, "One mans trash is another mans treasure." I enjoy the old mmo's because they seem to be more about the adventure to max level not the race to max level.
The old MMOs are still around. Last time I checked, UO, EQ,EQ2 etc are still there. Their numbers aren't exactly staggering(wonder why that is?) but they're still there. What's stopping you from playing them?
The bit I've highlighted in yellow is ironic. You do realise that in a soloable MMO, those that wish to group will find it almost impossible to do so regularly due to the majority of the player base having no reason to do so. It puts players in exactly the same situation as forced grouping does when playing at odd hours. I really don't understand the argument to group if you want to in a soloable game... it doesn't work like that if no one else has any reason to want to group with you.
Also I'd disagree that ChampionsFan is comparing apples to oranges. As far as I've seen in EVERY MMO that's released, if you can solo, everyone will solo. It's as simple as that. WoW has the same XP bonus system that the OP is talking about and yet it never did anything to encourage grouping there, did it?
The only way to ever encourage players to group in an MMO is to basically make it more rewarding than solo play to the point that soloinbg is really only a last option for when you can't find a group. This has been proven by the countless soloable games released in recent years.
Bullshit. I've had no problem finding people to group with in World of Warcraft. It's called join a guild and learn to use guild chat. More often than not I can find a few people to run something with. There are also guild events that are all about running a dungeon which you HAVE to be grouped with in order to complete. The devs for TOR already said that there will be content in which you have to group. You also have the option of joining someone in their mission and becoming part of the story. Many people will do this because while they know they can do the mission solo, having someone along will make the mission go a lot quicker. This is by far the best compromise.
Of course people group for instances, the whole point of my post was regarding when people aren't FORCED to group. If people could solo instances and get the same rewards (or lesser rewards but in much less time) do you really think many people would group for them any more? Of course they wouldn't. EVERYONE would be soloing them.
I wasn't referring to instances and endgame scenarios anyway, I was referring to general gameplay such as during the levelling curve (when the xp bonus that the OP is talking about is actually relevent). Go out into any open zone in WoW and look for a group to go questing together... surely having more people would make the process go faster? Nope...you'll be there LFG for hours.
No one is interested in grouping if they don't have to group. Simple as.
In FACT that little post right there pretty much shows that they are following the WoW system (another single player mmo) of partying. In that system every other person with you adds an party bonus of ( for example) 25 extra point before it's devided.
By the way, they need to reign in their folks if they dont want people to think this is a single player game because according to this dude in this interview for X-play..... this is a single player game. This is going to be WoW in space with lightsabers.
Oh goodie! Another WoW hating troll! Can we have a discussion that doesn't involve bashing the most successful game ever? And for that matter, if you thik WoW is a single player game, then you haven't played it. Half the fucking game is instanced and required partys of 5-25 players.
I never made it to end game because I got bored of solofesting by the time I got to 50. Dungeons are grouped but quests can mostly be done solo. Maybe it was just my server that I played on but nobody wanted to group up besides a uber fast dungeon run and then everyone peaced out. So if Half the game is Endgame and Dungeons while you level then I see what you're getting at, but IME WoW was mostly a solofest game.
Edit: Oh and for the record no I do not hate WoW, Its just not the game for me.
So, what instance can you solo at appropriate level? I would LOVE to hear how you did it.
I didn't and never said I did, see the Green words? Instanced Dungeons are Not a majority of the game well at least for me. The majority of the game before Endgame is Questing which is from what I've experienced from the game is nothing but a solofest. Granted this was like a year ago when I last played, I guess nowdays you could do nothing but group up and do dungeons with the dungeon finder. But Id rather party with people from my own server so If I did play I'd never use that feature.
First of all, the fact that you actually said that most MMOs before WOW didnt require grouping shows that you know nothing of old MMOs so i am not going to waste my time answering all those MMO question you are asking.
For knowing so much you sure did compile a decent size list of MMOs that forced you to group in order to progress. Requirement is a requirement. It is something that is absolutely 100% needed. I can't think of any that required you to be in a group at all times. So I'll say again, Most MMOs prior to WoW did not require you to group. It was an option. I can pretty much bet any game you throw out there is soloable in one way or another. Or at least as is said MOST of them will be.
Second, Of course this game ISNT a single player game it's an MMO, that's not the discussion. The discussion is in it's play style, and the fact that you can complete most of the game alone makes this MMO play LIKE a single player game. And THIS cannot be denied.
Totally wrong and crazy backtracking. Glad that you agree this is an MMO now (before you go back and say it isn't). What gets me is how you're claiming the playstyle of just one group of players is what defines the entire game. It can only play like a single player game if you make the effort in doing so, if a group player chooses to group often it will be a grouping game to him. The only way a game can have an absolute playstyle is if it is absolutly on one side of the fence, which ToR is not. You're being given the options of solo play and group play. The only thing denied here was your miserable attempt at formulating a logical reason as to why ToR is a SPRPG. Next you'll tell me Coconuts migrate.
One thing that always made me laugh about people bitching about "Forced Grouping" , some people seem to bitch about it when they are leveling. But if you think about WoW or most any other games End Game what is it?. Well slap my ass and call me Sally its forced grouping. What do you do in WoW's endgame, you're forced to group up and either Raid or PvP. You can't solo those dungeons to get better gear can ya now? So WTF is the difference if you're forced to group up to level up your character? People never cease to amaze me.
These people are probably the morons that i am talking about.
The people that hang around main cities running around naked spamming to get into parties but no one picks up.
Unless they cut out the "Henchmen" mechanism which allows everyone his own healer/tank NPC by his/her side... it is going to be a solo game.
I can already see the chat channel.
"Shut up dude" I need to level my Tankie NPC, I don't need you. We can all do it by ourselves.
Mechanism is old now. It was first introduced in GW and killed all PVE grouping there already.
NPC's as aids to your avatar is one straight way to hell for an mmorpg.
But they still have time to change it though ....
Not rocket science. If 1+1 is 2, and 2 is better than 1, then 2+2 = 4, and 4 is better than 2. Just because you can solo (and you can in almost every MMO) doesn't mean you always will solo, companions or not. If you want to level quickly, say an alt or something in particular, you're going to take the faster route - which, hopefully will be grouping (by a small margin) due to this bonus exp. Obviously it may not be faster, due to the penalties accompanied with grouping, and BioWare will probably have to tweak the bonus exp as time passes. Still, it's better than nothing.
In FACT that little post right there pretty much shows that they are following the WoW system (another single player mmo) of partying. In that system every other person with you adds an party bonus of ( for example) 25 extra point before it's devided.
By the way, they need to reign in their folks if they dont want people to think this is a single player game because according to this dude in this interview for X-play..... this is a single player game. This is going to be WoW in space with lightsabers.
Oh goodie! Another WoW hating troll! Can we have a discussion that doesn't involve bashing the most successful game ever? And for that matter, if you thik WoW is a single player game, then you haven't played it. Half the fucking game is instanced and required partys of 5-25 players.
So because i point out that you outside of the group instances and a few outside quest the whole game can be soloed that means i hate WOW? How is pointing out a fact an act of hatred?
And please..... saying that that half the game is instance is a joke. There is around 1 instance for every ten levels if anything. So that falls around the game being 10% instanced.
This will just cut down on the tremendous amounts of moron that get on these games just to screw around. This have people that LEARN how to actually play or else they dont get to play.
So you want MMOs to return to being crap.
Check.
Old MMO's may be crap to you but im sure you've heard the saying, "One mans trash is another mans treasure." I enjoy the old mmo's because they seem to be more about the adventure to max level not the race to max level.
The old MMOs are still around. Last time I checked, UO, EQ,EQ2 etc are still there. Their numbers aren't exactly staggering(wonder why that is?) but they're still there. What's stopping you from playing them?
You wonder why?
Because none of those game were released to around half of the planet .
Go look at any other MMO that was released to many areas that Wow numbers are the norm.
Of course people group for instances, the whole point of my post was regarding when people aren't FORCED to group. If people could solo instances and get the same rewards (or lesser rewards but in much less time) do you really think many people would group for them any more? Of course they wouldn't. EVERYONE would be soloing them.
I wasn't referring to instances and endgame scenarios anyway, I was referring to general gameplay such as during the levelling curve (when the xp bonus that the OP is talking about is actually relevent). Go out into any open zone in WoW and look for a group to go questing together... surely having more people would make the process go faster? Nope...you'll be there LFG for hours.
No one is interested in grouping if they don't have to group. Simple as.
How are you entitled to speak for everyone? I find myself being asked to group for quests many times on my alts. You can level just as fast if not faster with a group. Maybe it was just your experience in WoW, I don't know, but I sure as hell have never had a problem finding a group on any of my characters and many times I was not the one looking for them.
I think ToR will be a lot better when it comes to grouping. Increased xp helps and it certainly encourages it. But I think a lot of people will want others just to make their own story a bit more interesting. I know I plan to group, mostly with friends, but we may not always be on around the same time so I'll seek others out just so I have a more enjoyable experience. Even if there was nothing to gain I would group. I'm somebody, I group without having to, so everyone soloing is a little wrong now.
These people are probably the morons that i am talking about.
The people that hang around main cities running around naked spamming to get into parties but no one picks up.
Odd, I was thinking the opposite. Usually people that don't want to be forced aren't to worried about grouping. But those that want to possibly need a group to progress. I guess with forced grouping a group somewhere would have to take you.
But yeah totally, people against forced grouping are constantly spamming to get groups, logical.
Originally posted by j_jonson Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by cukimunga
Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
Originally posted by j_jonson
I want MMOs to go back to their original mold.
This will just cut down on the tremendous amounts of moron that get on these games just to screw around. This have people that LEARN how to actually play or else they dont get to play.
So you want MMOs to return to being crap.
Check.
Old MMO's may be crap to you but im sure you've heard the saying, "One mans trash is another mans treasure." I enjoy the old mmo's because they seem to be more about the adventure to max level not the race to max level.
The old MMOs are still around. Last time I checked, UO, EQ,EQ2 etc are still there. Their numbers aren't exactly staggering(wonder why that is?) but they're still there. What's stopping you from playing them?
You wonder why?
Because none of those game were released to around half of the planet .
Go look at any other MMO that was released to many areas that Wow numbers are the norm.
You're putting your chicken before the egg. Those old MMOs didn't sell poorly because they got no international support from foreign publishers, those old MMOs didn't get international support from foreign publishers because they sold like crap in the states. Nobody wanted to pick those titles up.
And considering that WoW has over 5 Million subs in NA/EU, 3+ Million from NA alone, you really have no leg to stand on. Even in that single market that's nearly 10 times more than even the most popular of those "old MMOs".
I have no problem grouping, just dont get mad when i put the group on hold cause i need to take an important phone call for 20 minutes or have to deal with real life things for 30 minutes when we are right in the middle of important group quests. Because those things come first always to me. Also dont rush me when i want to run over somewhere and gather some mats or something in the game because that is how i play the game and this is my time, my money and my entertainment and nobody is going to tell me what i can and cannot do within the game ever. But no the same people wanting forced grouping go cussing you out when these things happen.
Originally posted by ktanner3Bullshit. I've had no problem finding people to group with in World of Warcraft. It's called join a guild and learn to use guild chat. More often than not I can find a few people to run something with. There are also guild events that are all about running a dungeon which you HAVE to be grouped with in order to complete. The devs for TOR already said that there will be content in which you have to group. You also have the option of joining someone in their mission and becoming part of the story. Many people will do this because while they know they can do the mission solo, having someone along will make the mission go a lot quicker. This is by far the best compromise.
Of course people group for instances, the whole point of my post was regarding when people aren't FORCED to group. If people could solo instances and get the same rewards (or lesser rewards but in much less time) do you really think many people would group for them any more? Of course they wouldn't. EVERYONE would be soloing them.
I wasn't referring to instances and endgame scenarios anyway, I was referring to general gameplay such as during the levelling curve (when the xp bonus that the OP is talking about is actually relevent). Go out into any open zone in WoW and look for a group to go questing together... surely having more people would make the process go faster? Nope...you'll be there LFG for hours.
No one is interested in grouping if they don't have to group. Simple as.
No it isn't as simple as that. Once again, I will explain this slowly.....
There is this great feature in MMOs called "GUILD". When you join a guild you are joining a group of players who like to do things together. So when you log on, you have this wonderful feature called "guild chat." With this guild chat you can get in touch with people and ask them for help when doing your quests. I have had no problem finding someone in my guild to help me out on a quest. Sometimes I join someone on a quest just because I find that doing it with others is .......wait for it.. MORE FUN than doing it by myself. I don't need extra XP or incentive to do a mission with other people. In fact, I am glad that the people grouping up with me are doing so out of fun rather than being forced do so.
Now if you're having a problem finding people to play with it's either one of two things:
1.) You don't belong to a guild. In this case I say join one and stop bitching. I don't group with just any random person on the server and neither do most others. With a guild that has guidlines I know what kind of person I'm grouping with. Guilds act as a good filter for screening out morons. If you're one of those people who think they should be able to find a group just by spamming LFG then forget it. It ain't going to happen and no game mechanic should be created to change that.
2.) You're playing on a low populated server in which case I say get on a more busier one.
You wont see any one grouping based on a few extra points in xp..It has been done in almost all the MMO's to date, and that is not a big enough reason to group when there is tools like henchmen etc and most areas in the game are DESIGNED for solo play
If you design a game around "SOLO MOBS" most players will take that route, and the grouping options will get less and less for each day ...
Aslong as the design gives the players a choice of taking in help like "Henchmen" and Higher lvl players to help out(WoW) , most players will ALWAYS take the easy route for some unknown reason in the little group content there actually is, this alone will eventually break the game into a solo play ONLY game..
In this disussion you will see the solo players are defending this, with...
-YOU CAN ALWAYS GROUP, JUST GET ONE STARTED, OR IF THAT DOSNT WORK JOIN A GUILD ETC ETC
But this will certainly not help, since in the guild the majority does exactly what the majority of the rest of the game does..and If someone helps , sure they help you then they scatter.. Grouping should be for fun and social interaction with other players to establish bonds and create guilds etc..Today if you join a group, you join then disband 1 minute later.
There is also the aspect of boring gameplay, who in the hell wants to group up on easy mode ?
In EverQuest you joined a team and stuck with that team for the entire night, the team learned how to communicate or they died..
Originally posted by ktanner3Bullshit. I've had no problem finding people to group with in World of Warcraft. It's called join a guild and learn to use guild chat. More often than not I can find a few people to run something with. There are also guild events that are all about running a dungeon which you HAVE to be grouped with in order to complete. The devs for TOR already said that there will be content in which you have to group. You also have the option of joining someone in their mission and becoming part of the story. Many people will do this because while they know they can do the mission solo, having someone along will make the mission go a lot quicker. This is by far the best compromise.
Of course people group for instances, the whole point of my post was regarding when people aren't FORCED to group. If people could solo instances and get the same rewards (or lesser rewards but in much less time) do you really think many people would group for them any more? Of course they wouldn't. EVERYONE would be soloing them.
I wasn't referring to instances and endgame scenarios anyway, I was referring to general gameplay such as during the levelling curve (when the xp bonus that the OP is talking about is actually relevent). Go out into any open zone in WoW and look for a group to go questing together... surely having more people would make the process go faster? Nope...you'll be there LFG for hours.
No one is interested in grouping if they don't have to group. Simple as.
No it isn't as simple as that. Once again, I will explain this slowly.....
There is this great feature in MMOs called "GUILD". When you join a guild you are joining a group of players who like to do things together. So when you log on, you have this wonderful feature called "guild chat." With this guild chat you can get in touch with people and ask them for help when doing your quests. I have had no problem finding someone in my guild to help me out on a quest. Sometimes I join someone on a quest just because I find that doing it with others is .......wait for it.. MORE FUN than doing it by myself. I don't need extra XP or incentive to do a mission with other people. In fact, I am glad that the people grouping up with me are doing so out of fun rather than being forced do so.
Now if you're having a problem finding people to play with it's either one of two things:
1.) You don't belong to a guild. In this case I say join one and stop bitching. I don't group with just any random person on the server and neither do most others. With a guild that has guidlines I know what kind of person I'm grouping with. Guilds act as a good filter for screening out morons. If you're one of those people who think they should be able to find a group just by spamming LFG then forget it. It ain't going to happen and no game mechanic should be created to change that.
2.) You're playing on a low populated server in which case I say get on a more busier one.
Yes I'm clearly so thick that I've never heard of guilds before. /sarcasm
Have you not considered that you might be one of a very small minority? I've been in plenty of guilds... and they're never interested in doing anything to help anyone else out. All most people seem to care about in WoW is doing something to further their own character in some way. Why would they bother to come help someone quest when they could get more from their time doing dailies for some quick cash? It's not like their help is even needed since the quests are soloable (and if they're not it's easier to just outlevel it and come back).
Anyway you shouldn't need to rely on your guild for people to group with. It makes games cliquish and destroys the community as everyone just sticks to their own circle of friends.
Also to the bit I've highlighted in red: do you realise how moronic that sounds? You're basically saying that the LFG channel is a game feature that no one should use and no one should ever try to find a way to make it work better. It honestly sounds to me like you've never known a game with good grouping mechanics and, instead, you've simply come up with workarounds for WoW's horrendous community (which is mostly the result of a lack of mechanics requiring player interdependency). In many games the LFG tool is actually useful because the game encourages players to group all the time and, as a result, the majority of the player base aren't 'morons', as you put it.
You're actually highlighting the problem again: because WoW has such little reason to group most people are a waste of space in groups, as a result you have to resort to cliquish means of screening players to find people to group with, despite the fact that there is no real benefit to doing so. Guilds might be a solution for you in WoW but that doesn't change the fact that a) they are a workaround, you shouldn't have to rely on them just to form a group, and b) most players still have no interest in grouping. The general lack of any form of grouping outside of instances shows the majority of the playerbase are very very different from you.
Anyway you ignored my point about instances so I'll repeat the question since I think it sums up the problem quite nicely. If all of WoW's instances suddenly became soloable (even ICC) and, in a similar time frame, players were able to obtain the same rewards, would players still group for them? You know the answer is 'no', the only people grouping would be a few people like yourself who do it for no reason, and you would suddenly find it a lot harder to ever get a group for those instances because the majority of the people you used to run them with would now be soloing them.
The only way to make grouping a popular enough choice to have enough other people to actually group with is to force it on players. Even making it more efficient doesn't help much since time saved in groups is often lost again through the process of forming and maintaining them.
At one time WoW had 12 million playing from all over ther world. If some can't find a group in WoW then you need to not play at all. Anyway, the fact is that TOR offers both grouping and solo play just like every other mmo does. I don't see where the problem is because it is only a problem if people make it one.
Originally posted by Alberel Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by ktanner3Bullshit. I've had no problem finding people to group with in World of Warcraft. It's called join a guild and learn to use guild chat. More often than not I can find a few people to run something with. There are also guild events that are all about running a dungeon which you HAVE to be grouped with in order to complete. The devs for TOR already said that there will be content in which you have to group. You also have the option of joining someone in their mission and becoming part of the story. Many people will do this because while they know they can do the mission solo, having someone along will make the mission go a lot quicker. This is by far the best compromise.
Of course people group for instances, the whole point of my post was regarding when people aren't FORCED to group. If people could solo instances and get the same rewards (or lesser rewards but in much less time) do you really think many people would group for them any more? Of course they wouldn't. EVERYONE would be soloing them. I wasn't referring to instances and endgame scenarios anyway, I was referring to general gameplay such as during the levelling curve (when the xp bonus that the OP is talking about is actually relevent). Go out into any open zone in WoW and look for a group to go questing together... surely having more people would make the process go faster? Nope...you'll be there LFG for hours. No one is interested in grouping if they don't have to group. Simple as. No it isn't as simple as that. Once again, I will explain this slowly..... There is this great feature in MMOs called "GUILD". When you join a guild you are joining a group of players who like to do things together. So when you log on, you have this wonderful feature called "guild chat." With this guild chat you can get in touch with people and ask them for help when doing your quests. I have had no problem finding someone in my guild to help me out on a quest. Sometimes I join someone on a quest just because I find that doing it with others is .......wait for it.. MORE FUN than doing it by myself. I don't need extra XP or incentive to do a mission with other people. In fact, I am glad that the people grouping up with me are doing so out of fun rather than being forced do so. Now if you're having a problem finding people to play with it's either one of two things: 1.) You don't belong to a guild. In this case I say join one and stop bitching. I don't group with just any random person on the server and neither do most others. With a guild that has guidlines I know what kind of person I'm grouping with. Guilds act as a good filter for screening out morons. If you're one of those people who think they should be able to find a group just by spamming LFG then forget it. It ain't going to happen and no game mechanic should be created to change that. 2.) You're playing on a low populated server in which case I say get on a more busier one. Yes I'm clearly so thick that I've never heard of guilds before. /sarcasm Have you not considered that you might be one of a very small minority? I've been in plenty of guilds... and they're never interested in doing anything to help anyone else out. All most people seem to care about in WoW is doing something to further their own character in some way. Why would they bother to come help someone quest when they could get more from their time doing dailies for some quick cash? It's not like their help is even needed since the quests are soloable (and if they're not it's easier to just outlevel it and come back). Anyway you shouldn't need to rely on your guild for people to group with. It makes games cliquish and destroys the community as everyone just sticks to their own circle of friends. Also to the bit I've highlighted in red: do you realise how moronic that sounds? You're basically saying that the LFG channel is a game feature that no one should use and no one should ever try to find a way to make it work better. It honestly sounds to me like you've never known a game with good grouping mechanics and, instead, you've simply come up with workarounds for WoW's horrendous community (which is mostly the result of a lack of mechanics requiring player interdependency). In many games the LFG tool is actually useful because the game encourages players to group all the time and, as a result, the majority of the player base aren't 'morons', as you put it. You're actually highlighting the problem again: because WoW has such little reason to group most people are a waste of space in groups, as a result you have to resort to cliquish means of screening players to find people to group with, despite the fact that there is no real benefit to doing so. Guilds might be a solution for you in WoW but that doesn't change the fact that a) they are a workaround, you shouldn't have to rely on them just to form a group, and b) most players still have no interest in grouping. The general lack of any form of grouping outside of instances shows the majority of the playerbase are very very different from you. Anyway you ignored my point about instances so I'll repeat the question since I think it sums up the problem quite nicely. If all of WoW's instances suddenly became soloable (even ICC) and, in a similar time frame, players were able to obtain the same rewards, would players still group for them? You know the answer is 'no', the only people grouping would be a few people like yourself who do it for no reason, and you would suddenly find it a lot harder to ever get a group for those instances because the majority of the people you used to run them with would now be soloing them. The only way to make grouping a popular enough choice to have enough other people to actually group with is to force it on players. Even making it more efficient doesn't help much since time saved in groups is often lost again through the process of forming and maintaining them.
Spot on..this is what happens in a game that is created with solo mentality in mind
At one time WoW had 12 million playing from all over ther world. If some can't find a group in WoW then you need to not play at all. Anyway, the fact is that TOR offers both grouping and solo play just like every other mmo does. I don't see where the problem is because it is only a problem if people make it one.
Exactly. I've had no problem grouping in World of Warcraft and neither does anyone else that actually plays the game. Everyone knows where the social hubs are in that game . I'm just not seeing the problem with grouping that others claim to have with that game.
I think the real problem is that the forced groupers want everyone to play the game EXACTLY as they do, otherwise they aren't happy. That much is clear from the conversation we've had here. They say that the community would be better with forced grouping, yet the community would NOT be better because a lot of them would leave. You'd have a much smaller community and no gaming company in their right mind would want to purposely shut off an entire player base just to satisfy a select few. A lot of people like having the option of going solo. I like having the option of going solo when I'm not in the mood to deal with other people. Sometimes I like just having the ability to log on for a few minutes and play.And then other times I do feel like taking the time to play others. I have both options in WOW and I'll have them both in TOR.
Comments
Unless they cut out the "Henchmen" mechanism which allows everyone his own healer/tank NPC by his/her side... it is going to be a solo game.
I can already see the chat channel.
"Shut up dude" I need to level my Tankie NPC, I don't need you. We can all do it by ourselves.
Mechanism is old now. It was first introduced in GW and killed all PVE grouping there already.
NPC's as aids to your avatar is one straight way to hell for an mmorpg.
But they still have time to change it though ....
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Oh goodie! Another WoW hating troll! Can we have a discussion that doesn't involve bashing the most successful game ever? And for that matter, if you thik WoW is a single player game, then you haven't played it. Half the fucking game is instanced and required partys of 5-25 players.
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
I never made it to end game because I got bored of solofesting by the time I got to 50. Dungeons are grouped but quests can mostly be done solo. Maybe it was just my server that I played on but nobody wanted to group up besides a uber fast dungeon run and then everyone peaced out. So if Half the game is Endgame and Dungeons while you level then I see what you're getting at, but IME WoW was mostly a solofest game.
Edit: Oh and for the record no I do not hate WoW, Its just not the game for me.
So, what instance can you solo at appropriate level? I would LOVE to hear how you did it.
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
Are you directing this at me? I never once complained of forced grouping. But, alright, have it your way.
WoW may force grouping for dungeons but again you're handed many options to choose from. Groups can go from small, medium to large. A large group can tackle some of the hardest content in the game, collecting badges for gear equivelent of that dropping in the dungeon. The medium group can take on the same dungeons on a different difficulty level, recieving lesser gear while gaining badges to get large group equivelent gear. A small group of five people can clear heroics all day making gold from the random dungeon system, they also get badges which can be used for some gear, the same gear every other group size can gather.
It's not about end game soloing, atleast for not for me and I would say most people. It's leveling, other activities, hell, even explorating. These should offer many options. PvP should be the same.
So you want MMOs to return to being crap.
Check.
Old MMO's may be crap to you but im sure you've heard the saying, "One mans trash is another mans treasure." I enjoy the old mmo's because they seem to be more about the adventure to max level not the race to max level.
Try Fallen Earth. I'm having a good deal of fun with it and it's a radical departure from what I'm used to playing (WoW, Lotro, WAR, AoC, Aion, etc).
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
The bit I've highlighted in yellow is ironic. You do realise that in a soloable MMO, those that wish to group will find it almost impossible to do so regularly due to the majority of the player base having no reason to do so. It puts players in exactly the same situation as forced grouping does when playing at odd hours. I really don't understand the argument to group if you want to in a soloable game... it doesn't work like that if no one else has any reason to want to group with you.
Also I'd disagree that ChampionsFan is comparing apples to oranges. As far as I've seen in EVERY MMO that's released, if you can solo, everyone will solo. It's as simple as that. WoW has the same XP bonus system that the OP is talking about and yet it never did anything to encourage grouping there, did it?
The only way to ever encourage players to group in an MMO is to basically make it more rewarding than solo play to the point that soloinbg is really only a last option for when you can't find a group. This has been proven by the countless soloable games released in recent years.
Bullshit. I've had no problem finding people to group with in World of Warcraft. It's called join a guild and learn to use guild chat. More often than not I can find a few people to run something with. There are also guild events that are all about running a dungeon which you HAVE to be grouped with in order to complete. The devs for TOR already said that there will be content in which you have to group. You also have the option of joining someone in their mission and becoming part of the story. Many people will do this because while they know they can do the mission solo, having someone along will make the mission go a lot quicker. This is by far the best compromise.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
The old MMOs are still around. Last time I checked, UO, EQ,EQ2 etc are still there. Their numbers aren't exactly staggering(wonder why that is?) but they're still there. What's stopping you from playing them?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Of course people group for instances, the whole point of my post was regarding when people aren't FORCED to group. If people could solo instances and get the same rewards (or lesser rewards but in much less time) do you really think many people would group for them any more? Of course they wouldn't. EVERYONE would be soloing them.
I wasn't referring to instances and endgame scenarios anyway, I was referring to general gameplay such as during the levelling curve (when the xp bonus that the OP is talking about is actually relevent). Go out into any open zone in WoW and look for a group to go questing together... surely having more people would make the process go faster? Nope...you'll be there LFG for hours.
No one is interested in grouping if they don't have to group. Simple as.
I didn't and never said I did, see the Green words? Instanced Dungeons are Not a majority of the game well at least for me. The majority of the game before Endgame is Questing which is from what I've experienced from the game is nothing but a solofest. Granted this was like a year ago when I last played, I guess nowdays you could do nothing but group up and do dungeons with the dungeon finder. But Id rather party with people from my own server so If I did play I'd never use that feature.
These people are probably the morons that i am talking about.
The people that hang around main cities running around naked spamming to get into parties but no one picks up.
MMEEEEEHHHHH!!!
Not rocket science. If 1+1 is 2, and 2 is better than 1, then 2+2 = 4, and 4 is better than 2. Just because you can solo (and you can in almost every MMO) doesn't mean you always will solo, companions or not. If you want to level quickly, say an alt or something in particular, you're going to take the faster route - which, hopefully will be grouping (by a small margin) due to this bonus exp. Obviously it may not be faster, due to the penalties accompanied with grouping, and BioWare will probably have to tweak the bonus exp as time passes. Still, it's better than nothing.
So because i point out that you outside of the group instances and a few outside quest the whole game can be soloed that means i hate WOW? How is pointing out a fact an act of hatred?
And please..... saying that that half the game is instance is a joke. There is around 1 instance for every ten levels if anything. So that falls around the game being 10% instanced.
MMEEEEEHHHHH!!!
You wonder why?
Because none of those game were released to around half of the planet .
Go look at any other MMO that was released to many areas that Wow numbers are the norm.
MMEEEEEHHHHH!!!
How are you entitled to speak for everyone? I find myself being asked to group for quests many times on my alts. You can level just as fast if not faster with a group. Maybe it was just your experience in WoW, I don't know, but I sure as hell have never had a problem finding a group on any of my characters and many times I was not the one looking for them.
I think ToR will be a lot better when it comes to grouping. Increased xp helps and it certainly encourages it. But I think a lot of people will want others just to make their own story a bit more interesting. I know I plan to group, mostly with friends, but we may not always be on around the same time so I'll seek others out just so I have a more enjoyable experience. Even if there was nothing to gain I would group. I'm somebody, I group without having to, so everyone soloing is a little wrong now.
Odd, I was thinking the opposite. Usually people that don't want to be forced aren't to worried about grouping. But those that want to possibly need a group to progress. I guess with forced grouping a group somewhere would have to take you.
But yeah totally, people against forced grouping are constantly spamming to get groups, logical.
So you want MMOs to return to being crap.
Check.
Old MMO's may be crap to you but im sure you've heard the saying, "One mans trash is another mans treasure." I enjoy the old mmo's because they seem to be more about the adventure to max level not the race to max level.
The old MMOs are still around. Last time I checked, UO, EQ,EQ2 etc are still there. Their numbers aren't exactly staggering(wonder why that is?) but they're still there. What's stopping you from playing them?
You wonder why?
Because none of those game were released to around half of the planet .
Go look at any other MMO that was released to many areas that Wow numbers are the norm.
You're putting your chicken before the egg. Those old MMOs didn't sell poorly because they got no international support from foreign publishers, those old MMOs didn't get international support from foreign publishers because they sold like crap in the states. Nobody wanted to pick those titles up.
And considering that WoW has over 5 Million subs in NA/EU, 3+ Million from NA alone, you really have no leg to stand on. Even in that single market that's nearly 10 times more than even the most popular of those "old MMOs".
But hey, don't let logic stop you or anything.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
I have no problem grouping, just dont get mad when i put the group on hold cause i need to take an important phone call for 20 minutes or have to deal with real life things for 30 minutes when we are right in the middle of important group quests. Because those things come first always to me. Also dont rush me when i want to run over somewhere and gather some mats or something in the game because that is how i play the game and this is my time, my money and my entertainment and nobody is going to tell me what i can and cannot do within the game ever. But no the same people wanting forced grouping go cussing you out when these things happen.
No it isn't as simple as that. Once again, I will explain this slowly.....
There is this great feature in MMOs called "GUILD". When you join a guild you are joining a group of players who like to do things together. So when you log on, you have this wonderful feature called "guild chat." With this guild chat you can get in touch with people and ask them for help when doing your quests. I have had no problem finding someone in my guild to help me out on a quest. Sometimes I join someone on a quest just because I find that doing it with others is .......wait for it.. MORE FUN than doing it by myself. I don't need extra XP or incentive to do a mission with other people. In fact, I am glad that the people grouping up with me are doing so out of fun rather than being forced do so.
Now if you're having a problem finding people to play with it's either one of two things:
1.) You don't belong to a guild. In this case I say join one and stop bitching. I don't group with just any random person on the server and neither do most others. With a guild that has guidlines I know what kind of person I'm grouping with. Guilds act as a good filter for screening out morons. If you're one of those people who think they should be able to find a group just by spamming LFG then forget it. It ain't going to happen and no game mechanic should be created to change that.
2.) You're playing on a low populated server in which case I say get on a more busier one.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
You wont see any one grouping based on a few extra points in xp..It has been done in almost all the MMO's to date, and that is not a big enough reason to group when there is tools like henchmen etc and most areas in the game are DESIGNED for solo play
If you design a game around "SOLO MOBS" most players will take that route, and the grouping options will get less and less for each day ...
Aslong as the design gives the players a choice of taking in help like "Henchmen" and Higher lvl players to help out(WoW) , most players will ALWAYS take the easy route for some unknown reason in the little group content there actually is, this alone will eventually break the game into a solo play ONLY game..
In this disussion you will see the solo players are defending this, with...
-YOU CAN ALWAYS GROUP, JUST GET ONE STARTED, OR IF THAT DOSNT WORK JOIN A GUILD ETC ETC
But this will certainly not help, since in the guild the majority does exactly what the majority of the rest of the game does..and If someone helps , sure they help you then they scatter..
Grouping should be for fun and social interaction with other players to establish bonds and create guilds etc..Today if you join a group, you join then disband 1 minute later.
There is also the aspect of boring gameplay, who in the hell wants to group up on easy mode ?
In EverQuest you joined a team and stuck with that team for the entire night, the team learned how to communicate or they died..
-
Yes I'm clearly so thick that I've never heard of guilds before. /sarcasm
Have you not considered that you might be one of a very small minority? I've been in plenty of guilds... and they're never interested in doing anything to help anyone else out. All most people seem to care about in WoW is doing something to further their own character in some way. Why would they bother to come help someone quest when they could get more from their time doing dailies for some quick cash? It's not like their help is even needed since the quests are soloable (and if they're not it's easier to just outlevel it and come back).
Anyway you shouldn't need to rely on your guild for people to group with. It makes games cliquish and destroys the community as everyone just sticks to their own circle of friends.
Also to the bit I've highlighted in red: do you realise how moronic that sounds? You're basically saying that the LFG channel is a game feature that no one should use and no one should ever try to find a way to make it work better. It honestly sounds to me like you've never known a game with good grouping mechanics and, instead, you've simply come up with workarounds for WoW's horrendous community (which is mostly the result of a lack of mechanics requiring player interdependency). In many games the LFG tool is actually useful because the game encourages players to group all the time and, as a result, the majority of the player base aren't 'morons', as you put it.
You're actually highlighting the problem again: because WoW has such little reason to group most people are a waste of space in groups, as a result you have to resort to cliquish means of screening players to find people to group with, despite the fact that there is no real benefit to doing so. Guilds might be a solution for you in WoW but that doesn't change the fact that a) they are a workaround, you shouldn't have to rely on them just to form a group, and b) most players still have no interest in grouping. The general lack of any form of grouping outside of instances shows the majority of the playerbase are very very different from you.
Anyway you ignored my point about instances so I'll repeat the question since I think it sums up the problem quite nicely. If all of WoW's instances suddenly became soloable (even ICC) and, in a similar time frame, players were able to obtain the same rewards, would players still group for them? You know the answer is 'no', the only people grouping would be a few people like yourself who do it for no reason, and you would suddenly find it a lot harder to ever get a group for those instances because the majority of the people you used to run them with would now be soloing them.
The only way to make grouping a popular enough choice to have enough other people to actually group with is to force it on players. Even making it more efficient doesn't help much since time saved in groups is often lost again through the process of forming and maintaining them.
At one time WoW had 12 million playing from all over ther world. If some can't find a group in WoW then you need to not play at all. Anyway, the fact is that TOR offers both grouping and solo play just like every other mmo does. I don't see where the problem is because it is only a problem if people make it one.
I wasn't referring to instances and endgame scenarios anyway, I was referring to general gameplay such as during the levelling curve (when the xp bonus that the OP is talking about is actually relevent). Go out into any open zone in WoW and look for a group to go questing together... surely having more people would make the process go faster? Nope...you'll be there LFG for hours.
No one is interested in grouping if they don't have to group. Simple as.
No it isn't as simple as that. Once again, I will explain this slowly.....
There is this great feature in MMOs called "GUILD". When you join a guild you are joining a group of players who like to do things together. So when you log on, you have this wonderful feature called "guild chat." With this guild chat you can get in touch with people and ask them for help when doing your quests. I have had no problem finding someone in my guild to help me out on a quest. Sometimes I join someone on a quest just because I find that doing it with others is .......wait for it.. MORE FUN than doing it by myself. I don't need extra XP or incentive to do a mission with other people. In fact, I am glad that the people grouping up with me are doing so out of fun rather than being forced do so.
Now if you're having a problem finding people to play with it's either one of two things:
1.) You don't belong to a guild. In this case I say join one and stop bitching. I don't group with just any random person on the server and neither do most others. With a guild that has guidlines I know what kind of person I'm grouping with. Guilds act as a good filter for screening out morons. If you're one of those people who think they should be able to find a group just by spamming LFG then forget it. It ain't going to happen and no game mechanic should be created to change that.
2.) You're playing on a low populated server in which case I say get on a more busier one.
Yes I'm clearly so thick that I've never heard of guilds before. /sarcasm
Have you not considered that you might be one of a very small minority? I've been in plenty of guilds... and they're never interested in doing anything to help anyone else out. All most people seem to care about in WoW is doing something to further their own character in some way. Why would they bother to come help someone quest when they could get more from their time doing dailies for some quick cash? It's not like their help is even needed since the quests are soloable (and if they're not it's easier to just outlevel it and come back).
Anyway you shouldn't need to rely on your guild for people to group with. It makes games cliquish and destroys the community as everyone just sticks to their own circle of friends.
Also to the bit I've highlighted in red: do you realise how moronic that sounds? You're basically saying that the LFG channel is a game feature that no one should use and no one should ever try to find a way to make it work better. It honestly sounds to me like you've never known a game with good grouping mechanics and, instead, you've simply come up with workarounds for WoW's horrendous community (which is mostly the result of a lack of mechanics requiring player interdependency). In many games the LFG tool is actually useful because the game encourages players to group all the time and, as a result, the majority of the player base aren't 'morons', as you put it.
You're actually highlighting the problem again: because WoW has such little reason to group most people are a waste of space in groups, as a result you have to resort to cliquish means of screening players to find people to group with, despite the fact that there is no real benefit to doing so. Guilds might be a solution for you in WoW but that doesn't change the fact that a) they are a workaround, you shouldn't have to rely on them just to form a group, and b) most players still have no interest in grouping. The general lack of any form of grouping outside of instances shows the majority of the playerbase are very very different from you.
Anyway you ignored my point about instances so I'll repeat the question since I think it sums up the problem quite nicely. If all of WoW's instances suddenly became soloable (even ICC) and, in a similar time frame, players were able to obtain the same rewards, would players still group for them? You know the answer is 'no', the only people grouping would be a few people like yourself who do it for no reason, and you would suddenly find it a lot harder to ever get a group for those instances because the majority of the people you used to run them with would now be soloing them.
The only way to make grouping a popular enough choice to have enough other people to actually group with is to force it on players. Even making it more efficient doesn't help much since time saved in groups is often lost again through the process of forming and maintaining them.
Spot on..this is what happens in a game that is created with solo mentality in mind
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft