It's already been done, and it isn't a matter of splitting the baby at all.
It's just a matter of giving people incentive to group, through rewards, grouping tools and interesting encounters, which works fine, as seen in WoW.
Try leveling by only grouping in WoW - I'll see you in a couple of years, when you're done. Hope you like fishing.
And which will be done in TOR, as stated by the devs.
Your example doesn't make the slightest bit of sense and is entirely unrelated to the reality of this matter.
What will happen in TOR: you log in, you have the option to get straight to the action solo and progress your character, or you can invite some people to do that with you (and gain more XP), or you can look for a group and do the group specific combat.
What you want: you log in, you're stuck in town because you can't progress realistically without a group, and have to first spend time finding all the people and roles required. After not finding any groups for an hour or so and getting bored most casuals will log out and most hardcore will start grinding the measly mobs that their supposedly "super powerful" mages and warriors can still kill alone while spamming the LFG channel.
For the record, scenario 2 is out of the picture for quite some time now, and thank god for that.
What a grouping game needs to do is provide group content from 2 up to the maximum party size.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Don't Devs get it? People need to have incentives to group. Groups mean less downtime, more Xp per hour, tackling harder mobs than you could solo, Grouping also need to get reward incentives these days to break people out of this single player rpg mentallity.
THe trick is to make your game accessible as a solo player yet be overly rewarding in a team. Make the soloers want to group.
I dont know if more xp is enough. Make quests give double rewards if done in teams. Give time bonuses that can only be achieved as a team, 50% more gold, 50% more xp.
Make it so the idea of not grouping is only something u do if your zone is empty or no guildies are on.
I said it before and say it again, pro forced grouping people dont give a shit about the social aspect of grouping. All they care about is the fucking carrot. Take away the carrot and they lose interest in grouping at all.
So what if the reward for everyone in the group is the same as for a individual person? What happened to just killing monsters with your friends?
I say that people that advocate for forced grouping dont enjoy grouping at all. They want group rewards to be the end all, be all of the game, and have people who enjoy soloing to rot in the gutters.
People who prefer soloing - shouldn't be playing multiplayer games.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
This is silly, I've never seen a game where you couldn't progress faster in a group. People whine about getting less XP, but that's only because they look at XP per kill. Grouped progression is always faster no matter what the game.
Not if you take into account the downtime required by grouping.
There's no good reason kill xp should be divided at all. If a mob is worth 1,000 xp to solo, then give each member of the group 1,000 xp. If a quest requires randomly dropped items - then have it drop for everyone.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Don't Devs get it? People need to have incentives to group. Groups mean less downtime, more Xp per hour, tackling harder mobs than you could solo, Grouping also need to get reward incentives these days to break people out of this single player rpg mentallity.
THe trick is to make your game accessible as a solo player yet be overly rewarding in a team. Make the soloers want to group.
No, because soloers make shitty group members. Which makes people less willing to PUG. Making it harder to find groups.
The reason I want a forced (to level) grouping game is that soloers will not play it at all. Thus people who group will be doing it because they enjoy grouping.
I dont know if more xp is enough. Make quests give double rewards if done in teams. Give time bonuses that can only be achieved as a team, 50% more gold, 50% more xp.
Make it so the idea of not grouping is only something u do if your zone is empty or no guildies are on.
No xp at all when soloing. Gather crafting mats and farm gold if you want (for when you are waiting for you group to fill), and make content for groups of varying sizes. It shouldn't be just solo or max group size. There should be two-man, and three-man content.
I'm not saying ALL MMOs should be this way - but some of them should.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Don't Devs get it? People need to have incentives to group. Groups mean less downtime, more Xp per hour, tackling harder mobs than you could solo, Grouping also need to get reward incentives these days to break people out of this single player rpg mentallity.
THe trick is to make your game accessible as a solo player yet be overly rewarding in a team. Make the soloers want to group.
No, because soloers make shitty group members. Which makes people less willing to PUG. Making it harder to find groups.
The reason I want a forced (to level) grouping game is that soloers will not play it at all. Thus people who group will be doing it because they enjoy grouping.
I dont know if more xp is enough. Make quests give double rewards if done in teams. Give time bonuses that can only be achieved as a team, 50% more gold, 50% more xp.
Make it so the idea of not grouping is only something u do if your zone is empty or no guildies are on.
No xp at all when soloing. Gather crafting mats and farm gold if you want (for when you are waiting for you group to fill), and make content for groups of varying sizes. It shouldn't be just solo or max group size. There should be two-man, and three-man content.
I'm not saying ALL MMOs should be this way - but some of them should.
The Multiplayer in MMO merely describes an environment with multiple people, not a definition of game play. Personally I like MMO's that offer a world to play in and in that context the ideas of forced grouping or no incentive to group at all are both silly.
Don't Devs get it? People need to have incentives to group. Groups mean less downtime, more Xp per hour, tackling harder mobs than you could solo, Grouping also need to get reward incentives these days to break people out of this single player rpg mentallity.
THe trick is to make your game accessible as a solo player yet be overly rewarding in a team. Make the soloers want to group.
No, because soloers make shitty group members. Which makes people less willing to PUG. Making it harder to find groups.
The reason I want a forced (to level) grouping game is that soloers will not play it at all. Thus people who group will be doing it because they enjoy grouping.
I dont know if more xp is enough. Make quests give double rewards if done in teams. Give time bonuses that can only be achieved as a team, 50% more gold, 50% more xp.
Make it so the idea of not grouping is only something u do if your zone is empty or no guildies are on.
No xp at all when soloing. Gather crafting mats and farm gold if you want (for when you are waiting for you group to fill), and make content for groups of varying sizes. It shouldn't be just solo or max group size. There should be two-man, and three-man content.
I'm not saying ALL MMOs should be this way - but some of them should.
Comeon man, what if noone is in the zone your leveling in? what if noone on friends list and guild are online? what do you do? Even games like UO and EQ let you solo a little bit.
I solo when noone is online, This is why i say let a game be accessible to soloers. I dont know if you tried Ryzom but that is what im talking about. I can solo but i have downtime, the mobs need to be pulled one by one, you die a decent amount. In a group theres no downtime, you see more of the game quicker and the XP per hour is crazy.
See accessiblity solo but grouping is the focus.
I dont want to totally take away solo play then i would be forced to log off the game if noone is on lol.
Comeon man, what if noone is in the zone your leveling in? what if noone on friends list and guild are online? what do you do? Even games like UO and EQ let you solo a little bit.
I solo when noone is online, This is why i say let a game be accessible to soloers. I dont know if you tried Ryzom but that is what im talking about. I can solo but i have downtime, the mobs need to be pulled one by one, you die a decent amount. In a group theres no downtime, you see more of the game quicker and the XP per hour is crazy.
See accessiblity solo but grouping is the focus.
I dont want to totally take away solo play then i would be forced to log off the game if noone is on lol.
You can craft, gather crafting mats, or farm gold when soloing. Hey - I know what it's like. I RARELY play in primetime. All my friends are usually sleeping when I play. It would be easier to group if people had real incentive to group - and that means leveling. The other requirement is group content for smaller numbers than full parties.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Don't Devs get it? People need to have incentives to group. Groups mean less downtime, more Xp per hour, tackling harder mobs than you could solo, Grouping also need to get reward incentives these days to break people out of this single player rpg mentallity.
THe trick is to make your game accessible as a solo player yet be overly rewarding in a team. Make the soloers want to group.
No, because soloers make shitty group members. Which makes people less willing to PUG. Making it harder to find groups.
The reason I want a forced (to level) grouping game is that soloers will not play it at all. Thus people who group will be doing it because they enjoy grouping.
I dont know if more xp is enough. Make quests give double rewards if done in teams. Give time bonuses that can only be achieved as a team, 50% more gold, 50% more xp.
Make it so the idea of not grouping is only something u do if your zone is empty or no guildies are on.
No xp at all when soloing. Gather crafting mats and farm gold if you want (for when you are waiting for you group to fill), and make content for groups of varying sizes. It shouldn't be just solo or max group size. There should be two-man, and three-man content.
I'm not saying ALL MMOs should be this way - but some of them should.
This one will not be. Good luck in finding an MMORPG that is because I doubt any company is going to spend millions of dollars to develop a game that penalizes you for going solo.
So since it's a game, why in the world would people want forced grouping?
You said it yourself, people would rather progress at thier own pace and group when it's convienient. Forcing people to group only makes them dislike the game. As a form of entertainment with an every growing list of competiton, developers would be stupid to go againt the wishes of the majority to quell a small population with some old school notions.
This might come as a surprise to you, but - some people like grouping. They play multiplayer games in order to group with other players. Imagine that!
MMOs have gone too far to appeal to loners.
If a a game is known to require grouping to advance (thigns like crafting don't need to be group content) - then the players who don't like grouping won't be playing, and the groups will be comprised of players who enjoy grouping - rather than just being in a group to gain some carrot. If you like ballet - wouldn't you rather see it with others who enjoy it too?
This might come as a surprise to you, but most of the people you are arguing with here like grouping, they just don't think a game should be so exclusive that it denies people a chance to play just because of their play style. That's just being an elitist.
This one will not be. Good luck in finding an MMORPG that is because I doubt any company is going to spend millions of dollars to develop a game that penalizes you for going solo.
There might be eventually. When the slices from the WoW pie are so thin that companies realize that a big slice of a smaller pie is better.
I do not think I am alone in saying that I would automatically try an MMO which prevented solo leveling regardless of the theme.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
This might come as a surprise to you, but most of the people you are arguing with here like grouping, they just don't think a game should be so exclusive that it denies people a chance to play just because of their play style. That's just being an elitist.
I see no way to make people who prefer to solo, and people who prefer to group happy in the same game. I would be pleased to see such a game, but I do not anticipate it.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
This is silly, I've never seen a game where you couldn't progress faster in a group. People whine about getting less XP, but that's only because they look at XP per kill. Grouped progression is always faster no matter what the game.
Not if you take into account the downtime required by grouping.
There's no good reason kill xp should be divided at all. If a mob is worth 1,000 xp to solo, then give each member of the group 1,000 xp. If a quest requires randomly dropped items - then have it drop for everyone.
There IS a happy medium, and a lot of it is based on how much you divide XP.
WoW divides XP to much. It makes it pretty pointless to group, when you can solo to the cap, ALMOST just as fast, when you take into consideration LFG time.
And dividing XP is arbitrary. After all, XP itself is an imaginary nad arbitrary game device.
Are you REALLY earning less "experience" when you participate in killing a MOb in a group, versus doing it solo?
Seems unlikely. Probably you would learn MORE about killing mobs, since the group would learn from each other.
But in any case, all you need to do is compensate the Group so it's worthwhile to spend time LFG, traveling, deciding wehre to go. Really, all you have to do is NOT penalize people for grouping by NOT splitting up the XP so much it's pointless.
then, you allow solo players to still make it to the level cap, just not nearly AS fast as groupers, or with as good gear.
Why is this not acceptable to everyone?
The solo crowd can still do their own thing, and the Groupers are not pissing in the wind by grouping.
So since it's a game, why in the world would people want forced grouping?
You said it yourself, people would rather progress at thier own pace and group when it's convienient. Forcing people to group only makes them dislike the game. As a form of entertainment with an every growing list of competiton, developers would be stupid to go againt the wishes of the majority to quell a small population with some old school notions.
This might come as a surprise to you, but - some people like grouping. They play multiplayer games in order to group with other players. Imagine that!
MMOs have gone too far to appeal to loners.
If a a game is known to require grouping to advance (thigns like crafting don't need to be group content) - then the players who don't like grouping won't be playing, and the groups will be comprised of players who enjoy grouping - rather than just being in a group to gain some carrot. If you like ballet - wouldn't you rather see it with others who enjoy it too?
This might come as a surprise to you, but most of the people you are arguing with here like grouping, they just don't think a game should be so exclusive that it denies people a chance to play just because of their play style. That's just being an elitist.
I agree that most people like to group, at least now and then. However, there is nothing "elitist" about preferring a certain game play.
Like, I want a good First Person Shooter. Well, I don't have l33t twitch skills! You are being elitist and trying to exclude me! There MUSt also be an RPG combat option in the game!
Uh, no that's silly. Obviously people don't give a shit about YOU, they just want to play a First person shooter game.
And it's the EXACT same thing youa re saying. I don't wany anyone to play a challenging group game because they are trying to exclude me!
Really, hard core groupers don't want to exclude you, they just want a challenging grouping game. Challenging means to a hardcore grouper, the HE or SHE has a hard time soloiong. It's not really about YOU.
This might come as a surprise to you, but most of the people you are arguing with here like grouping, they just don't think a game should be so exclusive that it denies people a chance to play just because of their play style. That's just being an elitist.
I see no way to make people who prefer to solo, and people who prefer to group happy in the same game. I would be pleased to see such a game, but I do not anticipate it.
Seems to work fine in World of Warcraft. If you like soloing you have the quest line and if you like grouping there is the dungeons, which is a quicker way to level than going solo. Good times had by all. And of course the end game is nothing but grouping.
In this game you gain 3 times as much XP grouping as you do going solo. So far I don't see any soloers complaining about that. I can go either way but I will much prefer grouping for this game for two reasons:
1.) It's much faster to level that way. This reason alone will cause people to group.
2.) The fact that my friends become part of my story. I take a friend with me on a mission and all of sudden he is integrated in with the story as well as the cutscenes. I already see guild memberships being a big deal in this game.
Seems to work fine in World of Warcraft. If you like soloing you have the quest line and if you like grouping there is the dungeons, which is a quicker way to level than going solo. Good times had by all. And of course the end game is nothing but grouping.
As I said in a previous post, good luck leveling by doing dungeons in WoW. Even the random groups (which suck for socailiziation, because most people don't talk, and those who do are often on different servers, so you can't group with them by choice) don't pop very often at low levels.
In this game you gain 3 times as much XP grouping as you do going solo.
GL with that. We'll see what the rate is like at release. We have seen other games nerf their xp rates at launch.
So far I don't see any soloers complaining about that. I can go either way but I will much prefer grouping for this game for two reasons:
1.) It's much faster to level that way. This reason alone will cause people to group.
The problems with individual storylines wil discourage grouping for that content.
2.) The fact that my friends become part of my story. I take a friend with me on a mission and all of sudden he is integrated in with the story as well as the cutscenes. I already see guild memberships being a big deal in this game.
Soloers don't WANT to be part of someone else's story. They want their own. Do you really think soloers are going to give up decision-making?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Seems to work fine in World of Warcraft. If you like soloing you have the quest line and if you like grouping there is the dungeons, which is a quicker way to level than going solo. Good times had by all. And of course the end game is nothing but grouping.
As I said in a previous post, good luck leveling by doing dungeons in WoW. Even the random groups (which suck for socailiziation, because most people don't talk, and those who do are often on different servers, so you can't group with them by choice) don't pop very often at low levels.
In this game you gain 3 times as much XP grouping as you do going solo.
GL with that. We'll see what the rate is like at release. We have seen other games nerf their xp rates at launch.
So far I don't see any soloers complaining about that. I can go either way but I will much prefer grouping for this game for two reasons:
1.) It's much faster to level that way. This reason alone will cause people to group.
The problems with individual storylines wil discourage grouping for that content.
2.) The fact that my friends become part of my story. I take a friend with me on a mission and all of sudden he is integrated in with the story as well as the cutscenes. I already see guild memberships being a big deal in this game.
Soloers don't WANT to be part of someone else's story. They want their own. Do you really think soloers are going to give up decision-making?
If they're a strict soloer they're not going to join in the first place. If they are someone who prefers going solo but doesn't mind the occasional group, then I don't see the problem. He might even find the game more fun by bringing someone else along.
Comments
What a grouping game needs to do is provide group content from 2 up to the maximum party size.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Don't Devs get it? People need to have incentives to group. Groups mean less downtime, more Xp per hour, tackling harder mobs than you could solo, Grouping also need to get reward incentives these days to break people out of this single player rpg mentallity.
THe trick is to make your game accessible as a solo player yet be overly rewarding in a team. Make the soloers want to group.
I dont know if more xp is enough. Make quests give double rewards if done in teams. Give time bonuses that can only be achieved as a team, 50% more gold, 50% more xp.
Make it so the idea of not grouping is only something u do if your zone is empty or no guildies are on.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
People who prefer soloing - shouldn't be playing multiplayer games.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Not if you take into account the downtime required by grouping.
There's no good reason kill xp should be divided at all. If a mob is worth 1,000 xp to solo, then give each member of the group 1,000 xp. If a quest requires randomly dropped items - then have it drop for everyone.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No xp at all when soloing. Gather crafting mats and farm gold if you want (for when you are waiting for you group to fill), and make content for groups of varying sizes. It shouldn't be just solo or max group size. There should be two-man, and three-man content.
I'm not saying ALL MMOs should be this way - but some of them should.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The Multiplayer in MMO merely describes an environment with multiple people, not a definition of game play. Personally I like MMO's that offer a world to play in and in that context the ideas of forced grouping or no incentive to group at all are both silly.
Comeon man, what if noone is in the zone your leveling in? what if noone on friends list and guild are online? what do you do? Even games like UO and EQ let you solo a little bit.
I solo when noone is online, This is why i say let a game be accessible to soloers. I dont know if you tried Ryzom but that is what im talking about. I can solo but i have downtime, the mobs need to be pulled one by one, you die a decent amount. In a group theres no downtime, you see more of the game quicker and the XP per hour is crazy.
See accessiblity solo but grouping is the focus.
I dont want to totally take away solo play then i would be forced to log off the game if noone is on lol.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
You can craft, gather crafting mats, or farm gold when soloing. Hey - I know what it's like. I RARELY play in primetime. All my friends are usually sleeping when I play. It would be easier to group if people had real incentive to group - and that means leveling. The other requirement is group content for smaller numbers than full parties.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
This one will not be. Good luck in finding an MMORPG that is because I doubt any company is going to spend millions of dollars to develop a game that penalizes you for going solo.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
This might come as a surprise to you, but most of the people you are arguing with here like grouping, they just don't think a game should be so exclusive that it denies people a chance to play just because of their play style. That's just being an elitist.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
There might be eventually. When the slices from the WoW pie are so thin that companies realize that a big slice of a smaller pie is better.
I do not think I am alone in saying that I would automatically try an MMO which prevented solo leveling regardless of the theme.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I see no way to make people who prefer to solo, and people who prefer to group happy in the same game. I would be pleased to see such a game, but I do not anticipate it.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
There IS a happy medium, and a lot of it is based on how much you divide XP.
WoW divides XP to much. It makes it pretty pointless to group, when you can solo to the cap, ALMOST just as fast, when you take into consideration LFG time.
And dividing XP is arbitrary. After all, XP itself is an imaginary nad arbitrary game device.
Are you REALLY earning less "experience" when you participate in killing a MOb in a group, versus doing it solo?
Seems unlikely. Probably you would learn MORE about killing mobs, since the group would learn from each other.
But in any case, all you need to do is compensate the Group so it's worthwhile to spend time LFG, traveling, deciding wehre to go. Really, all you have to do is NOT penalize people for grouping by NOT splitting up the XP so much it's pointless.
then, you allow solo players to still make it to the level cap, just not nearly AS fast as groupers, or with as good gear.
Why is this not acceptable to everyone?
The solo crowd can still do their own thing, and the Groupers are not pissing in the wind by grouping.
I agree that most people like to group, at least now and then. However, there is nothing "elitist" about preferring a certain game play.
Like, I want a good First Person Shooter. Well, I don't have l33t twitch skills! You are being elitist and trying to exclude me! There MUSt also be an RPG combat option in the game!
Uh, no that's silly. Obviously people don't give a shit about YOU, they just want to play a First person shooter game.
And it's the EXACT same thing youa re saying. I don't wany anyone to play a challenging group game because they are trying to exclude me!
Really, hard core groupers don't want to exclude you, they just want a challenging grouping game. Challenging means to a hardcore grouper, the HE or SHE has a hard time soloiong. It's not really about YOU.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Soloers don't WANT to be part of someone else's story. They want their own. Do you really think soloers are going to give up decision-making?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If they're a strict soloer they're not going to join in the first place. If they are someone who prefers going solo but doesn't mind the occasional group, then I don't see the problem. He might even find the game more fun by bringing someone else along.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft