Why are people not playing games like Wurm, Darkfall, Mortal, Fallen Earth, Ryzom and Vanguard? Because they are all real games that cannot please everybody, and they cant compete with romantic rose tinted fantasies that revolve around players heads. How quickly will Xyson get rejected do you think? Pretty quick id say.
Because they are all games released or soon to be released before they were finished. I've played 4 of the games you mentioned and they were full of bugs, had desynch issues, had major lag during large fights and were just clearly not ready to be released. FE is probably the most polished of the bunch, but it is just another themepark, quest grinder set in a post apocolyptic world.
Everyone has seen that polished games are possible to create and very few of us will tolerate an MMO launching before the game is really polished. I believe the most polished game to launch since WoW set the standard was Aion and they have been able to hold more subs than any other MMO besides WoW.
You cannot say a quality made MMO with some older game mechanics will not succeed with any certainty because no one has ever done it to prove otherwise.
Without instances, you actually can meet people where the action is & interact with them. When you camp with others, you'll talk to them, creating what we call a community in the process. Yeah, thats right! A community!
LOL .. when you camp with others, you bicker about who is in line before you, and who get to kill the boss next, and who can reserve what drops.
This kind of community .. i can do without. And what is so magical about a "community"? I have plenty of friends. When i want to play a game .. i want a GAME.
Um... kid, you clearly never played old MMORPGs. I don't know of any game that happened in except maybe the really high end raid dungeons in EverQuest, and that is NOT the only oldschool MMORPG that ever existed. Please stop using your silly straw man arguments.
And if you don't want socializing or community, then play Diablo or some singleplayer RPG with a chat client running in the backround. You're kind of missing the point.
Well, i started with UO beta .. and EQ .. so who is teh kid?
The point is NOT chatting with some guy for 30 min in between boss camping .. the point is to group and actually PLAY together. If that is not the point, what is 11.5M people doing in WOW? Use it as a chat room? Go to MSN to do that.
And before you ask people to go single player games .. who are the ones who is QQing because they don't want to play modern MMOs? May be you should go back to chat room & tabletop RPGs.
Heh no problems it happens, I was actually hoping those games did have those numbers. I wish there was a game that would be more old school but do it right and with some cool new features. Someone needs to break the mold so we can get that virtual world feeling but yet bring some innovation to the genre.
Old school stuff is NOT innovation. By DEFINITION, they have been tried before (and likely failed in the market place).
TOR is bringing innovation. Fully voice MMO .. that is new. Branching story lines in missions .. that is new. You may not like it .. but it is innovation.
instances are the lesser evil, you'll learn to live with them.
as for instant travel, in many games its just an option you can choose. Even in GW you can choose to go from one instance to another by walking (and picking flowers on the way). you choose that and leave our instant travel option alone.
Heh no problems it happens, I was actually hoping those games did have those numbers. I wish there was a game that would be more old school but do it right and with some cool new features. Someone needs to break the mold so we can get that virtual world feeling but yet bring some innovation to the genre.
Old school stuff is NOT innovation. By DEFINITION, they have been tried before (and likely failed in the market place).
TOR is bringing innovation. Fully voice MMO .. that is new. Branching story lines in missions .. that is new. You may not like it .. but it is innovation.
I wouldnt say that a full voice mmo is something new. Most of us will probably see all the chat as slow ass quest text and skip them and look for what kind of npcs we need to kill to please the npc. So I will say now that this full voice thingy is not innovation- just a more advance quest text.
edit: And alot of you guys should try this. Get into a online guild (that are playing alot of mmo´s) and you will probably find the games alot more fun.
instances are the lesser evil, you'll learn to live with them.
as for instant travel, in many games its just an option you can choose. Even in GW you can choose to go from one instance to another by walking (and picking flowers on the way). you choose that and leave our instant travel option alone.
Doesn't work. These people want to enforce their beliefs on others. If They travel without fast travel, They will not meet people because the rest are using the fast travel. In essence they want to dump Their misery on us. We don't want it.
Yay for instances and fast travel.
They're a minority, sadly loud one. Who cares what the old-school MMORPG-hippies think?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I agree with OP, travels are taking away a lot of the feeling in the game and the massively instanced games that is coming out doesn't help either.
It is ok with a few teleporters in the world in far away places but things are far from just that. And yes, I don't have to port everywhere but the people you meet when you are actually going somewhere isn't impressing as long as travels are instanced.
As for this demands a niche game, that is only true if you think that Wow is the only not niche game out there.
On one hand, I was kinda happy about the travel-time in for instance the orriginal EverQuest. It gave the world a great deal of depth and realism, and gave additional opportunities for adventure, exploration, and interaction with other players (20 minutes on a boat, or 30 minutes waiting for day-break in Kithocor Forest)
On the other hand...would I honestly like that today? I really don't know...
Looks like you guys have way too much time on your hands. With 2 hours a day for gaming i have no interest in spending 30 mins just to travel from point A to B.
Me thinks MMOs are not for you,maby single player RPG's?
The following statement is false The previous statement is true
I agree with OP, travels are taking away a lot of the feeling in the game and the massively instanced games that is coming out doesn't help either.
It is ok with a few teleporters in the world in far away places but things are far from just that. And yes, I don't have to port everywhere but the people you meet when you are actually going somewhere isn't impressing as long as travels are instanced.
As for this demands a niche game, that is only true if you think that Wow is the only not niche game out there.
so what Quirhid said is true, you dont enjoy "the ride" with fellow enjoy'ers; you want to watch who dont enjoy it. thats mean.
Why are people not playing games like Wurm, Darkfall, Mortal, Fallen Earth, Ryzom and Vanguard? Because they are all real games that cannot please everybody, and they cant compete with romantic rose tinted fantasies that revolve around players heads. How quickly will Xyson get rejected do you think? Pretty quick id say.
Because they are all games released or soon to be released before they were finished. I've played 4 of the games you mentioned and they were full of bugs, had desynch issues, had major lag during large fights and were just clearly not ready to be released. FE is probably the most polished of the bunch, but it is just another themepark, quest grinder set in a post apocolyptic world.
Everyone has seen that polished games are possible to create and very few of us will tolerate an MMO launching before the game is really polished. I believe the most polished game to launch since WoW set the standard was Aion and they have been able to hold more subs than any other MMO besides WoW.
You cannot say a quality made MMO with some older game mechanics will not succeed with any certainty because no one has ever done it to prove otherwise.
Yet the same thing would happen. The game would be picked over, moaned about and then rejected. Vanguard is much better now, as is Darkfall. Ryzom has been around for years, and teeters on the brink of death because nobody plays it.
Looks like you guys have way too much time on your hands. With 2 hours a day for gaming i have no interest in spending 30 mins just to travel from point A to B.
Me thinks MMOs are not for you,maby single player RPG's?
Me thinks you don't have a life if you think wasting 30 minutes doing essentially nothing is fun. 5 minutes to get someplace is fine. 30 minutes? Maybe when I was single and in school with nothing better to do. Still think vanilla WOW was ideal. You have to explore and discover first before gaining access to faster travel. There just isn't anything challenging, exciting or thought provoking about sitting on a boat or horse for 30 mins, watching space whoosh by like a screen saver or hitting /follow on a buddy and running down a path for the 100th time or even dodging annoying mobs over and over again that have nothing to do with your goal.
Games are about fun. Excessive travel is a time sink and nothing more.
Looks like you guys have way too much time on your hands. With 2 hours a day for gaming i have no interest in spending 30 mins just to travel from point A to B.
Me thinks MMOs are not for you,maby single player RPG's?
Me thinks you don't have a life if you think wasting 30 minutes doing essentially nothing is fun. 5 minutes to get someplace is fine. 30 minutes? Maybe when I was single and in school with nothing better to do. Still think vanilla WOW was ideal. You have to explore and discover first before gaining access to faster travel. There just isn't anything challenging, exciting or thought provoking about sitting on a boat or horse for 30 mins, watching space whoosh by like a screen saver or hitting /follow on a buddy and running down a path for the 100th time or even dodging annoying mobs over and over again that have nothing to do with your goal.
Games are about fun. Excessive travel is a time sink and nothing more.
I'll say again maby MMO's are not for you, maby a insta gradifaction type game suits you more.FPS? RPG? Cards?
The following statement is false The previous statement is true
Looks like you guys have way too much time on your hands. With 2 hours a day for gaming i have no interest in spending 30 mins just to travel from point A to B.
Me thinks MMOs are not for you,maby single player RPG's?
Me thinks you don't have a life if you think wasting 30 minutes doing essentially nothing is fun. 5 minutes to get someplace is fine. 30 minutes? Maybe when I was single and in school with nothing better to do. Still think vanilla WOW was ideal. You have to explore and discover first before gaining access to faster travel. There just isn't anything challenging, exciting or thought provoking about sitting on a boat or horse for 30 mins, watching space whoosh by like a screen saver or hitting /follow on a buddy and running down a path for the 100th time or even dodging annoying mobs over and over again that have nothing to do with your goal.
Games are about fun. Excessive travel is a time sink and nothing more.
dude what you play are mo(nothing wrong with that)just go play a mo and you ll be happy and let other have a mmo
Games are about fun. Excessive travel is a time sink and nothing more.
There was a time when an activity could go unrewarded and still be fun. But I understand that nowdays players are like seals, grunting and clapping their fins for another herring. If it's been 5 minutes without a herring, that's no fun.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Games are about fun. Excessive travel is a time sink and nothing more.
There was a time when an activity could go unrewarded and still be fun. But I understand that nowdays players are like seals, grunting and clapping their fins for another herring. If it's been 5 minutes without a herring, that's no fun.
Ya, your right, walking is so much fun, personally id rather just walk then actually, you know, do something.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Games are about fun. Excessive travel is a time sink and nothing more.
There was a time when an activity could go unrewarded and still be fun. But I understand that nowdays players are like seals, grunting and clapping their fins for another herring. If it's been 5 minutes without a herring, that's no fun.
To me this is kind of an odd response at least to the person I can see quoted. Altho I actaully came in here for the "instant travel" portion of the thread title.
I find it odd because Ultima Online had Recall and Gate. Sure you had to go mark a rune where you wanted to go but the "instant travel" was there. Well no you didn't have to go mark a rune... somebody did... and then you could just get the rune from them.
EQ of course had Druid Ports and Wizards...
So while people may not like Instances... to act like "instant travel" was some feature later added to MMO's... is rather odd.
This rant about instant traveling all sounds glamorous on paper like in the stories right. But let's face it, even in the books they don't describe every little physical step taken by the main character. Sure they describe some things in details but usually time is sped up at the whim of the author.
The same idea for an MMORPG, traveling in general is just not fun. How many exciting things happen to you while you're waiting at the airport, jumping on the plane and flying to your destination or roadtripping. Sure you run across interesting people/things and you have fun somewhere in there, but the majority of the time is spent traveling in real life.
Why do you want to mimic such tedium from real life into an MMO? I figure we play games to get away from the tedium, not the other way around.
I am of the school that travel should be a part of the game, but make it interesting for Pete sake. I am willing to wait for a boat, if the boat has content on it as well.
example: If the boat has virtual gambling, a random event or two (drunken sailors instigate a brawl), a sea monster attacks the ship while en route, the ship hits a reef and is taking on water, etc. Rotating Public quests/events would be nice in these situations)
If I have to fly there - give me the option to participate in an aerial event or give me the reigns to swoop down and if there is an event on route i want to hop in, let me "land" my air taxi.
If I am in rush, gimme insta travel options too, but like EQ, put it in the hands of the players or at a higher cost/risk - NPCs or items to let me teleport.
I like mounts - heck we all do. If you want a big world - I did like Vangards take on big worlds. Mounts are good for land travel
Looks like you guys have way too much time on your hands. With 2 hours a day for gaming i have no interest in spending 30 mins just to travel from point A to B.
Me thinks MMOs are not for you,maby single player RPG's?
Me thinks you don't have a life if you think wasting 30 minutes doing essentially nothing is fun. 5 minutes to get someplace is fine. 30 minutes? Maybe when I was single and in school with nothing better to do. Still think vanilla WOW was ideal. You have to explore and discover first before gaining access to faster travel. There just isn't anything challenging, exciting or thought provoking about sitting on a boat or horse for 30 mins, watching space whoosh by like a screen saver or hitting /follow on a buddy and running down a path for the 100th time or even dodging annoying mobs over and over again that have nothing to do with your goal.
Games are about fun. Excessive travel is a time sink and nothing more.
dude what you play are mo(nothing wrong with that)just go play a mo and you ll be happy and let other have a mmo
gees!
There's nothing you can do about it since the games are moving more and more away from the old times. We win. You go and stick with you poorly funded niche games and stop whining.
xfire is showing that the whole gaming community isnt happy so every game are loosing.so in the end
mmo and mo player are all loosing and so are game maker!
seeing all game drop 50% in number hours play in 12 month isnt my definition of winning be it a mo or mmo
it looks more like we are all losing!just wow alone went from 500000 some hours to average of 275 000 some hours
so you can be sure of one thing every game and gamer are loosing!
There was a time when an activity could go unrewarded and still be fun. But I understand that nowdays players are like seals, grunting and clapping their fins for another herring. If it's been 5 minutes without a herring, that's no fun.
Is riding through a zone you have explored and traveled through many times before fun to you?
I don't get a reward for casting a portal spell to the city I want to get to, but I don't have to sit through minutes of nothing either.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I am of the school that travel should be a part of the game, but make it interesting for Pete sake. I am willing to wait for a boat, if the boat has content on it as well.
example: If the boat has virtual gambling, a random event or two (drunken sailors instigate a brawl), a sea monster attacks the ship while en route, the ship hits a reef and is taking on water, etc. Rotating Public quests/events would be nice in these situations)
If I have to fly there - give me the option to participate in an aerial event or give me the reigns to swoop down and if there is an event on route i want to hop in, let me "land" my air taxi.
Those are very good ideas.
I would add that you need something to do while you are waiting for the boat or airship to arrive. I always said that the zeppelin towers in WoW should at least have fishing ponds nearby, so you had something to do.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
There was a time when an activity could go unrewarded and still be fun. But I understand that nowdays players are like seals, grunting and clapping their fins for another herring. If it's been 5 minutes without a herring, that's no fun.
Is riding through a zone you have explored and traveled through many times before fun to you?
I don't get a reward for casting a portal spell to the city I want to get to, but I don't have to sit through minutes of nothing either.
we dont say condone one or the other!we say reward both equally thats what the issue is!
if me and my gangbanger we decide to go try to kill a world boss too close to org then let us do it and reward us the same as if i was say running icc 25 .you are right!yes it will probably be 3 time as hard!often one in your group will go on an alt and warn
the horde about the idea !gees that why we would run it lol.because it would spice up a boring raid.
right now forget that! try it for fun .cant! everything that give fair reward is instanced without any chance of ever seeing horde or allies while you are raiding!and if you do find a world boss ,the reward are so old most dont even remember what t or s it was !
Comments
Because they are all games released or soon to be released before they were finished. I've played 4 of the games you mentioned and they were full of bugs, had desynch issues, had major lag during large fights and were just clearly not ready to be released. FE is probably the most polished of the bunch, but it is just another themepark, quest grinder set in a post apocolyptic world.
Everyone has seen that polished games are possible to create and very few of us will tolerate an MMO launching before the game is really polished. I believe the most polished game to launch since WoW set the standard was Aion and they have been able to hold more subs than any other MMO besides WoW.
You cannot say a quality made MMO with some older game mechanics will not succeed with any certainty because no one has ever done it to prove otherwise.
Well, i started with UO beta .. and EQ .. so who is teh kid?
The point is NOT chatting with some guy for 30 min in between boss camping .. the point is to group and actually PLAY together. If that is not the point, what is 11.5M people doing in WOW? Use it as a chat room? Go to MSN to do that.
And before you ask people to go single player games .. who are the ones who is QQing because they don't want to play modern MMOs? May be you should go back to chat room & tabletop RPGs.
Heh no problems it happens, I was actually hoping those games did have those numbers. I wish there was a game that would be more old school but do it right and with some cool new features. Someone needs to break the mold so we can get that virtual world feeling but yet bring some innovation to the genre.
Old school stuff is NOT innovation. By DEFINITION, they have been tried before (and likely failed in the market place).
TOR is bringing innovation. Fully voice MMO .. that is new. Branching story lines in missions .. that is new. You may not like it .. but it is innovation.
instances are the lesser evil, you'll learn to live with them.
as for instant travel, in many games its just an option you can choose. Even in GW you can choose to go from one instance to another by walking (and picking flowers on the way). you choose that and leave our instant travel option alone.
I need more vespene gas.
I wouldnt say that a full voice mmo is something new. Most of us will probably see all the chat as slow ass quest text and skip them and look for what kind of npcs we need to kill to please the npc. So I will say now that this full voice thingy is not innovation- just a more advance quest text.
edit: And alot of you guys should try this. Get into a online guild (that are playing alot of mmo´s) and you will probably find the games alot more fun.
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
Doesn't work. These people want to enforce their beliefs on others. If They travel without fast travel, They will not meet people because the rest are using the fast travel. In essence they want to dump Their misery on us. We don't want it.
Yay for instances and fast travel.
They're a minority, sadly loud one. Who cares what the old-school MMORPG-hippies think?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I wouldn't count on seeing these two things in much else besides indie games.
I agree with OP, travels are taking away a lot of the feeling in the game and the massively instanced games that is coming out doesn't help either.
It is ok with a few teleporters in the world in far away places but things are far from just that. And yes, I don't have to port everywhere but the people you meet when you are actually going somewhere isn't impressing as long as travels are instanced.
As for this demands a niche game, that is only true if you think that Wow is the only not niche game out there.
I am in two minds here.
On one hand, I was kinda happy about the travel-time in for instance the orriginal EverQuest. It gave the world a great deal of depth and realism, and gave additional opportunities for adventure, exploration, and interaction with other players (20 minutes on a boat, or 30 minutes waiting for day-break in Kithocor Forest)
On the other hand...would I honestly like that today? I really don't know...
Me thinks MMOs are not for you,maby single player RPG's?
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
so what Quirhid said is true, you dont enjoy "the ride" with fellow enjoy'ers; you want to watch who dont enjoy it. thats mean.
I need more vespene gas.
Yet the same thing would happen. The game would be picked over, moaned about and then rejected. Vanguard is much better now, as is Darkfall. Ryzom has been around for years, and teeters on the brink of death because nobody plays it.
Me thinks you don't have a life if you think wasting 30 minutes doing essentially nothing is fun. 5 minutes to get someplace is fine. 30 minutes? Maybe when I was single and in school with nothing better to do. Still think vanilla WOW was ideal. You have to explore and discover first before gaining access to faster travel. There just isn't anything challenging, exciting or thought provoking about sitting on a boat or horse for 30 mins, watching space whoosh by like a screen saver or hitting /follow on a buddy and running down a path for the 100th time or even dodging annoying mobs over and over again that have nothing to do with your goal.
Games are about fun. Excessive travel is a time sink and nothing more.
Exactly right.
I'm not going to pay $15 a month to be bored.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I'll say again maby MMO's are not for you, maby a insta gradifaction type game suits you more.FPS? RPG? Cards?
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
dude what you play are mo(nothing wrong with that)just go play a mo and you ll be happy and let other have a mmo
gees!
There was a time when an activity could go unrewarded and still be fun. But I understand that nowdays players are like seals, grunting and clapping their fins for another herring. If it's been 5 minutes without a herring, that's no fun.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Ya, your right, walking is so much fun, personally id rather just walk then actually, you know, do something.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
To me this is kind of an odd response at least to the person I can see quoted. Altho I actaully came in here for the "instant travel" portion of the thread title.
I find it odd because Ultima Online had Recall and Gate. Sure you had to go mark a rune where you wanted to go but the "instant travel" was there. Well no you didn't have to go mark a rune... somebody did... and then you could just get the rune from them.
EQ of course had Druid Ports and Wizards...
So while people may not like Instances... to act like "instant travel" was some feature later added to MMO's... is rather odd.
This rant about instant traveling all sounds glamorous on paper like in the stories right. But let's face it, even in the books they don't describe every little physical step taken by the main character. Sure they describe some things in details but usually time is sped up at the whim of the author.
The same idea for an MMORPG, traveling in general is just not fun. How many exciting things happen to you while you're waiting at the airport, jumping on the plane and flying to your destination or roadtripping. Sure you run across interesting people/things and you have fun somewhere in there, but the majority of the time is spent traveling in real life.
Why do you want to mimic such tedium from real life into an MMO? I figure we play games to get away from the tedium, not the other way around.
I am of the school that travel should be a part of the game, but make it interesting for Pete sake. I am willing to wait for a boat, if the boat has content on it as well.
example: If the boat has virtual gambling, a random event or two (drunken sailors instigate a brawl), a sea monster attacks the ship while en route, the ship hits a reef and is taking on water, etc. Rotating Public quests/events would be nice in these situations)
If I have to fly there - give me the option to participate in an aerial event or give me the reigns to swoop down and if there is an event on route i want to hop in, let me "land" my air taxi.
If I am in rush, gimme insta travel options too, but like EQ, put it in the hands of the players or at a higher cost/risk - NPCs or items to let me teleport.
I like mounts - heck we all do. If you want a big world - I did like Vangards take on big worlds. Mounts are good for land travel
Make travel fun again.
Finally - Best site for Chuck Norris
http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/
xfire is showing that the whole gaming community isnt happy so every game are loosing.so in the end
mmo and mo player are all loosing and so are game maker!
seeing all game drop 50% in number hours play in 12 month isnt my definition of winning be it a mo or mmo
it looks more like we are all losing!just wow alone went from 500000 some hours to average of 275 000 some hours
so you can be sure of one thing every game and gamer are loosing!
[Mod Edit]
Is riding through a zone you have explored and traveled through many times before fun to you?
I don't get a reward for casting a portal spell to the city I want to get to, but I don't have to sit through minutes of nothing either.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Those are very good ideas.
I would add that you need something to do while you are waiting for the boat or airship to arrive. I always said that the zeppelin towers in WoW should at least have fishing ponds nearby, so you had something to do.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
we dont say condone one or the other!we say reward both equally thats what the issue is!
if me and my gangbanger we decide to go try to kill a world boss too close to org then let us do it and reward us the same as if i was say running icc 25 .you are right!yes it will probably be 3 time as hard!often one in your group will go on an alt and warn
the horde about the idea !gees that why we would run it lol.because it would spice up a boring raid.
right now forget that! try it for fun .cant! everything that give fair reward is instanced without any chance of ever seeing horde or allies while you are raiding!and if you do find a world boss ,the reward are so old most dont even remember what t or s it was !