As your implying that you don't want to have a solo experience that would be considered "Heroic", looking for the mundane game play then are we?
What is wrong with feeling as if your character while out there in the game world alone is able to defeat multiple opponents? do we all have to bow down to the idea that only a grp is allowed to do cool stuff? what a crock of crap, give me heroic any day of the week over whatev er it is your looking for, no doubt a game that can only be seen while grp'd with at least 20 others, wow what a fun experience, having to only advance while grpd.
The discussion here is about if TOR will be solo game or will it have at least some group emphasis. If you like solo, then good for you. We don't care.
Well, while I am sure there will be some grouping incentive, I'm also fairly certain it won't be all forced grouping like Final Fantasy XIV.
Rather than forcing you to spend time looking for a group to accomplish anything I'm sure the game will be focused more on options and, oh I don't know... fun.
If that flashpoint is not part of the main quest line for either of us yes.
You can't have both perfect personal control and the ability for everyone to change things.
Sure, but this mechanic does seem to discourage grouping.
Also - how does it work if you are both playing a smuggler and doing the same storyline flashpoint? Do you have to specify whose flashpoint it is before you play it out?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Well, while I am sure there will be some grouping incentive, I'm also fairly certain it won't be all forced grouping like Final Fantasy XIV.
Rather than forcing you to spend time looking for a group to accomplish anything I'm sure the game will be focused more on options and, oh I don't know... fun.
Oh you're sure now are you? Then it just has to be true.
XIV is not a forced grouping game, but the devs are wise enough to not make it sound like a solo game either. Let's not derail the thread though.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Nope. If Han was intent on joining the Empire in Star Wars, but he had to team up with Luke to escape the Death Star, would Luke be more inclined to join the Sith? I don't think so.
I don't understand what you mean by that, honestly.
Plus, in cases like that there is just far too much potential for griefing. In an MMO every single thing must be able to be overridden for the sake of preventing griefing because the griefed player won't have fun and will quit the game. That's why you have to sacrifice realism instead of allowing other players to block doorways and the like.
Ah - WTF does blocking doorways have to do with anything in this discussion?
My point is that opposite sides in a war don't generally fraternize with each other.
I happen to think that Smugglers and Bounty Hunters ought to be neutral, but no way should Sith and Jedi be grouping together.
Sith: "Hey, I got this quest to kill a Jedi Master? Wanna come help?
Jedi: "Sure. You can help me kill the Emperor afterwards."
Sith: "Cool."
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Well, while I am sure there will be some grouping incentive, I'm also fairly certain it won't be all forced grouping like Final Fantasy XIV.
FFXIV won't be forced grouping. They are going to have more soloability. Unfortunately.
Rather than forcing you to spend time looking for a group to accomplish anything I'm sure the game will be focused more on options and, oh I don't know... fun.
Fun you could be having playing offline.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I read through the entire review, and I'd have to say I agree with it.
Its been over a year where BioWare has released a bunch of information that they haven't shown as a demo YET. I can understand the trepidation from the reviewer. He went through basically another small tutorial, for the most part, just with a different class, whilst wanting to know more and more about the other features that they weren't showing. Reading through it, he didn't say clearly if he enjoyed playing it or not, he just said that it was similar to what he had done in game last time (paraphrasing).
I don't see anything wrong with that. That makes him less of a "new" reviewer. Its basically the different between playing a Jedi and reviewing the game, and then turning around and playing a Bounty Hunter at the same stage in the characters progression cycle and reviewing the game, the details may be different, but you're still only going through a very miniscule part of the gameplay.
Maybe it is time for BioWare to at least show us something else in terms of what they've said will be in game and exactly how it works. I guess we'll have to wait for E3.
Well, while I am sure there will be some grouping incentive, I'm also fairly certain it won't be all forced grouping like Final Fantasy XIV.
FFXIV won't be forced grouping. They are going to have more soloability. Unfortunately.
Rather than forcing you to spend time looking for a group to accomplish anything I'm sure the game will be focused more on options and, oh I don't know... fun.
Fun you could be having playing offline.
Same could be said for any MMO you play solo though, wouldn't you agree?
Well, while I am sure there will be some grouping incentive, I'm also fairly certain it won't be all forced grouping like Final Fantasy XIV.
Rather than forcing you to spend time looking for a group to accomplish anything I'm sure the game will be focused more on options and, oh I don't know... fun.
Oh you're sure now are you? Then it just has to be true.
XIV is not a forced grouping game, but the devs are wise enough to not make it sound like a solo game either. Let's not derail the thread though.
Heh, just ribbing ya. Who knows really, I have hope that each game will be enjoyable in its own way. Being someone who enjoys soloing, even in games where the progress is really slow, I'm just looking forward to the story aspect. I could see where people who have more fun playing with friends and still being challenged might be worried, since most games lately have sacrificed group difficulty in order to make the game more solo friendly. I think Bioware can come up with a good solution that will apeal to both sides, but I can't really be 'sure'. I'm taking the optimistic side on this one because I like Bioware games, but before CO and STO I would have stood behind Cryptic too, so you just can't tell what a company is going to do based on what it's done before.
If that flashpoint is not part of the main quest line for either of us yes.
You can't have both perfect personal control and the ability for everyone to change things.
Sure, but this mechanic does seem to discourage grouping.
Also - how does it work if you are both playing a smuggler and doing the same storyline flashpoint? Do you have to specify whose flashpoint it is before you play it out?
If you're both on the exact same quest and step into the exact same flashpoint at the exact same time, then probably yes, although that isn't confirmed and is way too much a specific situation, I can't imagine it being otherwise.
Does it discourage grouping? Maybe for people who want every story option played out as they imagine it and who do the optional solo content yes.
Though you will get an advantage in a group while your personal character won't suffer besides not having all your own choices returned.
And well in group specific encounters, those are group specific...
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Meh, the community at large talking out of both sides of it's mouth. Lest we forget what happened to SWG? Let Bioware do what it needs to do in order to deliver a solid game. If they're not ready to show, then don't show it. We clamor for new info, but we also request they not rush it.
The review basically summed up as "I've seen this before, whaaa."
Heh, just ribbing ya. Who knows really, I have hope that each game will be enjoyable in its own way. Being someone who enjoys soloing, even in games where the progress is really slow, I'm just looking forward to the story aspect. I could see where people who have more fun playing with friends and still being challenged might be worried, since most games lately have sacrificed group difficulty in order to make the game more solo friendly. I think Bioware can come up with a good solution that will apeal to both sides, but I can't really be 'sure'. I'm taking the optimistic side on this one because I like Bioware games, but before CO and STO I would have stood behind Cryptic too, so you just can't tell what a company is going to do based on what it's done before.
Just a fun fact for future: group based games can offer challenging and fun solo content as well, more so than games that try to make soloing more appealing to the masses . All these games appeal in one way or the other, and I think I'll be playing through my personal story at least in this one.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Meh, the community at large talking out of both sides of it's mouth. Lest we forget what happened to SWG? Let Bioware do what it needs to do in order to deliver a solid game. If they're not ready to show, then don't show it. We clamor for new info, but we also request they not rush it.
Nothing they do now, could be considered 'rushing it'.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If you're both on the exact same quest and step into the exact same flashpoint at the exact same time, then probably yes, although that isn't confirmed and is way too much a specific situation, I can't imagine it being otherwise.
Does it discourage grouping? Maybe for people who want every story option played out as they imagine it and who do the optional solo content yes.
Though you will get an advantage in a group while your personal character won't suffer besides not having all your own choices returned.
And well in group specific encounters, those are group specific...
So will you finally accept that there is some validity to being skeptical? I'm not saying TOR will be a solo game but some things have been said that could make one worry about this aspect, the reviewer too.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Well, while I am sure there will be some grouping incentive, I'm also fairly certain it won't be all forced grouping like Final Fantasy XIV.
FFXIV won't be forced grouping. They are going to have more soloability. Unfortunately.
Rather than forcing you to spend time looking for a group to accomplish anything I'm sure the game will be focused more on options and, oh I don't know... fun.
Fun you could be having playing offline.
Yeah, that's true, but offline games tend to be so damn short lately. I'd love to have a game like KOTOR that I wouldn't be able to run through all of the content in a couple of days. Throw on top of that some optional grouping, optional PvP and maybe some crafting and a player run economy and to me it'd be just about perfect.
On the other hand I would have really liked to see a faction based PvP game like DAoC based in the Old Republic as well.
Yeah, that's true, but offline games tend to be so damn short lately. I'd love to have a game like KOTOR that I wouldn't be able to run through all of the content in a couple of days. Throw on top of that some optional grouping, optional PvP and maybe some crafting and a player run economy and to me it'd be just about perfect.
On the other hand I would have really liked to see a faction based PvP game like DAoC based in the Old Republic as well.
Remember that the shortness has it's benefits. Majority of things that make MMO longer than a single player game is the grind part, which I don't think is the most fun aspect of playing an MMO. Though if you enjoy it, great!
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
So will you finally accept that there is some validity to being skeptical? I'm not saying TOR will be a solo game but some things have been said that could make one worry about this aspect, the reviewer too.
I'm not at all against skepticism, I'm skeptical about things in the game as well if you'd read some of my posts, including things like customization, instanced nature of PvP, etc...
There are still a lot of situations to be cleared out in the above system, and the quality of the group content besides the solo leveling has to be convincing.
What I am against, is writing uninformative previews like this one, with a lack of consistency in skepticism and a lack of research on the actual facts.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Yeah, that's true, but offline games tend to be so damn short lately. I'd love to have a game like KOTOR that I wouldn't be able to run through all of the content in a couple of days. Throw on top of that some optional grouping, optional PvP and maybe some crafting and a player run economy and to me it'd be just about perfect.
On the other hand I would have really liked to see a faction based PvP game like DAoC based in the Old Republic as well.
Remember that the shortness has it's benefits. Majority of things that make MMO longer than a single player game is the grind part, which I don't think is the most fun aspect of playing an MMO. Though if you enjoy it, great!
I agree,
In all honesty, they could probably take the story, chop it up to 4 classes on release, and have the other 4 as DLC or an expansion and not have to waste costs on servers etc. and probably still make a killing as a SPG, but theres obviously a reason they decided to go the MMORPG route. I don't think BioWare is daft that they don't understand the MMORPG elements. It seems they are showing us pieces right now, but not the glue. Hopefully soon we'll get to see what it looks like all put together, but I'm sure there are plenty of more pieces they haven't shown us yet.
I'm not at all against skepticism, I'm skeptical about things in the game as well if you'd read some of my posts, including things like customization, instanced nature of PvP, etc...
There are still a lot of situations to be cleared out in the above system, and the quality of the group content besides the solo leveling has to be convincing.
What I am against, is writing uninformative previews like this one, with a lack of consistency in skepticism and a lack of research on the actual facts.
I agree that the reviewer should have made some research about the grouping decision making feature beforehand.. but other than that, I don't really see anything too bad about this article. I probably would have had the same thoughts, except I wouldn't have been as forgiving in my review, lol.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Yeah, that's true, but offline games tend to be so damn short lately. I'd love to have a game like KOTOR that I wouldn't be able to run through all of the content in a couple of days. Throw on top of that some optional grouping, optional PvP and maybe some crafting and a player run economy and to me it'd be just about perfect.
On the other hand I would have really liked to see a faction based PvP game like DAoC based in the Old Republic as well.
Remember that the shortness has it's benefits. Majority of things that make MMO longer than a single player game is the grind part, which I don't think is the most fun aspect of playing an MMO. Though if you enjoy it, great!
Well, anything can feel like a grind if there's too much of it, but I am counting on the story to be good enough to make me excited about what's going to happen next. Kind of like a good book, or a good movie. The original uncut Dune is 4 hours long, but, despite it not being very true to the books, it's still one of my favorite movies.
It all really depends on how well they impliment their ideas.
Bioware is, IMO, putting together something rather nice. I do not, however, believe this game is going to be for those people who want a traditional MMO. I'm sure there will be people who say "wtf is with this narrative? Just tell me how many rats to kill!" The holonet timeline has been fascinating, as well as the comic. If you've noticed, their focus has been story, and that will be a key part of SWTOR. I'm very glad they have yet to show us much gameplay, as I want to see a very polished example.
For me, being a massive Star Wars fan, I will play this game even if the combat is mediocre at best.
Comments
Well, while I am sure there will be some grouping incentive, I'm also fairly certain it won't be all forced grouping like Final Fantasy XIV.
Rather than forcing you to spend time looking for a group to accomplish anything I'm sure the game will be focused more on options and, oh I don't know... fun.
For baseless praising of the game of course.
Tl;dr
Another generic MMO.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Sure, but this mechanic does seem to discourage grouping.
Also - how does it work if you are both playing a smuggler and doing the same storyline flashpoint? Do you have to specify whose flashpoint it is before you play it out?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Oh you're sure now are you? Then it just has to be true.
XIV is not a forced grouping game, but the devs are wise enough to not make it sound like a solo game either. Let's not derail the thread though.
Sith: "Hey, I got this quest to kill a Jedi Master? Wanna come help?
Jedi: "Sure. You can help me kill the Emperor afterwards."
Sith: "Cool."
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Fun you could be having playing offline.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I shudder to imagine that. That would be horrific.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I read through the entire review, and I'd have to say I agree with it.
Its been over a year where BioWare has released a bunch of information that they haven't shown as a demo YET. I can understand the trepidation from the reviewer. He went through basically another small tutorial, for the most part, just with a different class, whilst wanting to know more and more about the other features that they weren't showing. Reading through it, he didn't say clearly if he enjoyed playing it or not, he just said that it was similar to what he had done in game last time (paraphrasing).
I don't see anything wrong with that. That makes him less of a "new" reviewer. Its basically the different between playing a Jedi and reviewing the game, and then turning around and playing a Bounty Hunter at the same stage in the characters progression cycle and reviewing the game, the details may be different, but you're still only going through a very miniscule part of the gameplay.
Maybe it is time for BioWare to at least show us something else in terms of what they've said will be in game and exactly how it works. I guess we'll have to wait for E3.
Same could be said for any MMO you play solo though, wouldn't you agree?
Heh, just ribbing ya. Who knows really, I have hope that each game will be enjoyable in its own way. Being someone who enjoys soloing, even in games where the progress is really slow, I'm just looking forward to the story aspect. I could see where people who have more fun playing with friends and still being challenged might be worried, since most games lately have sacrificed group difficulty in order to make the game more solo friendly. I think Bioware can come up with a good solution that will apeal to both sides, but I can't really be 'sure'. I'm taking the optimistic side on this one because I like Bioware games, but before CO and STO I would have stood behind Cryptic too, so you just can't tell what a company is going to do based on what it's done before.
If you're both on the exact same quest and step into the exact same flashpoint at the exact same time, then probably yes, although that isn't confirmed and is way too much a specific situation, I can't imagine it being otherwise.
Does it discourage grouping? Maybe for people who want every story option played out as they imagine it and who do the optional solo content yes.
Though you will get an advantage in a group while your personal character won't suffer besides not having all your own choices returned.
And well in group specific encounters, those are group specific...
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Meh, the community at large talking out of both sides of it's mouth. Lest we forget what happened to SWG? Let Bioware do what it needs to do in order to deliver a solid game. If they're not ready to show, then don't show it. We clamor for new info, but we also request they not rush it.
The review basically summed up as "I've seen this before, whaaa."
I don't play MMOs solo.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Games aren't made solely with you in mind.
Just a fun fact for future: group based games can offer challenging and fun solo content as well, more so than games that try to make soloing more appealing to the masses
. All these games appeal in one way or the other, and I think I'll be playing through my personal story at least in this one.
Nothing they do now, could be considered 'rushing it'.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
So will you finally accept that there is some validity to being skeptical? I'm not saying TOR will be a solo game but some things have been said that could make one worry about this aspect, the reviewer too.
Yeah, that's true, but offline games tend to be so damn short lately. I'd love to have a game like KOTOR that I wouldn't be able to run through all of the content in a couple of days. Throw on top of that some optional grouping, optional PvP and maybe some crafting and a player run economy and to me it'd be just about perfect.
On the other hand I would have really liked to see a faction based PvP game like DAoC based in the Old Republic as well.
Remember that the shortness has it's benefits. Majority of things that make MMO longer than a single player game is the grind part, which I don't think is the most fun aspect of playing an MMO. Though if you enjoy it, great!
I'm not at all against skepticism, I'm skeptical about things in the game as well if you'd read some of my posts, including things like customization, instanced nature of PvP, etc...
There are still a lot of situations to be cleared out in the above system, and the quality of the group content besides the solo leveling has to be convincing.
What I am against, is writing uninformative previews like this one, with a lack of consistency in skepticism and a lack of research on the actual facts.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I agree,
In all honesty, they could probably take the story, chop it up to 4 classes on release, and have the other 4 as DLC or an expansion and not have to waste costs on servers etc. and probably still make a killing as a SPG, but theres obviously a reason they decided to go the MMORPG route. I don't think BioWare is daft that they don't understand the MMORPG elements. It seems they are showing us pieces right now, but not the glue. Hopefully soon we'll get to see what it looks like all put together, but I'm sure there are plenty of more pieces they haven't shown us yet.
I agree that the reviewer should have made some research about the grouping decision making feature beforehand.. but other than that, I don't really see anything too bad about this article. I probably would have had the same thoughts, except I wouldn't have been as forgiving in my review, lol.
Well, anything can feel like a grind if there's too much of it, but I am counting on the story to be good enough to make me excited about what's going to happen next. Kind of like a good book, or a good movie. The original uncut Dune is 4 hours long, but, despite it not being very true to the books, it's still one of my favorite movies.
It all really depends on how well they impliment their ideas.
Bioware is, IMO, putting together something rather nice. I do not, however, believe this game is going to be for those people who want a traditional MMO. I'm sure there will be people who say "wtf is with this narrative? Just tell me how many rats to kill!" The holonet timeline has been fascinating, as well as the comic. If you've noticed, their focus has been story, and that will be a key part of SWTOR. I'm very glad they have yet to show us much gameplay, as I want to see a very polished example.
For me, being a massive Star Wars fan, I will play this game even if the combat is mediocre at best.