And back to the broader topic understand what I am saying. I am not saying that in terms of F2P games the hybrid F2P subscription (VIP) is not a good value, it most certianly is a good way to play a F2P game in terms of value. What I am saying is that comparing a subscription in F2P hybrid (VIP) to a subscription to a traditional P2P subscription they are not the same (hybrid sub has limits and the game is fundementally differnet) and that they are not comporable in value either.
I agree. They are not comparable at all. With VIP and microtransactions you have much more freedom to play how you want and the ability to puchase extras that normally would not be an option under a subscription model.
I couldn't help reading this article (and others on the subject) and see strong parellels to this F2P move in MMOs. Quoted portion being of particular application to this discussion.
"“The more bandwidth that you make available, the faster it will be consumed,” said Craig Moffett, analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. in New York. “From Verizon’s perspective, the last thing you want is for another generation of consumers to be conditioned to the idea that data is always going to be uncapped.”"
Conditioned is an interesting choice of words. That is what MMO companies are doing now, trying to recondition people to paying more in smaller increments. Think about it - back when smart phones (iPhone, Android, Windows, etc) where not really a market they went to unlimited data plans to draw people in. But now that the market is established they are pulling back. This kind of consumer manipulation is common and it is very much what is happening with MMOs and F2P, it is all about breaking out of the $15 a month all included model (a very cheap overall entertainment model). Turbine is doing that with this hybrid model, trying to give the impression that you are getting the same with a sub and the F2P part is just another 'option', but they ignore the fundamental change to the game that going cash shop, even with a sub option, has on the game and too many people ignore how that fundamental change will steer things in a very different direction over time.
They are still not selling ISK, even if they help players brokering these deals. All it does is prevent scamming and excessive ingame GM petitions which where a huge problem before.
They are selling an in game item (GTC) that is intended, in whole or in part, to be sold for ISK - so it is fair to say that you can legally buy ISK in EVE for real money. The whole point of them coming up with these cards was to facilitate, officially, a way to deal with gold farming and get it under control, as well as the earning game play time thing. I am not saying it is a terrible idea, though I absolutely dislike the legal and santioned way of turning real life money in to ISK, especially in a game where economic power is so much of game power.
Actually i was at the official forums when this was first discussed before CCP took the move or even decided to officially approve it. There are several mechanics that make this different from selling gold in other games:
1. Its oneway. You cant use this method to turn ISK into $, only the other way. This is important to protect the companies rights to be the only one making a profit of their work, thats huge.
2. It doesnt encourage goldfarming due to 1. So it doesnt attract goldfarmers which are destroying other players enjoyment.
3. It doesnt create anything in game that wasnt there before. In F2P store, if you buy something it gets created out of nothing, that always influences an economy.
4. It was legally dicey. People got scammed alot, and they got scammed for values that allowed courtaction. CCP couldnt be sued themselves because they didnt do anything wrong of course, but they would have been required to assist courts with chatlogs and other stuff. So very early on the decision was made, no scamming for reallife values in EvE-O, you could petition them and the GMs where doing rollbacks on funds(not to get you your ISK back, which they are not required to do, but to discourage that kind of scamming, the scammer knew he couldnt gain the ISK). This was taxing support alot, which was THE reason they got a automatic system(first based on the eve-o account page, later ingame as it is now).
5. It worked within supply and demand laws. You could not get unlimited ISK this way, the market would saturate rather fast.
6. And this was the point that swayed CCP. While it did trade advantage ingame for out of game money, it had a desireable sideeffect, which was increasing the playerbase by people who had the time to get ingame money, but lacked out of game money. The point that you just CANT ignore is that goldsellers exist in any game, and goldselling is happening no matter what you do. CCPs decision was damagecontrol, if they cant prevent people from buying/selling ISK they want it done in a way that doesnt hurt them, their game, and maybe even has an upside.
So while it is outwardly similar to plain old selling of gold/ISK, internally its a whole different beast. Despite all this it was still a close call within CCP, a dev later commented that the team was split to the end about how to handle it, it was a narrow thing, but they believed it worked out well. Which is the reason they later allowed us to trade these things on market.
Originally posted by Rocketeer
Besides advantage is a shitty argument. So what about high level chars helping out lowlevel chars? Or mains supporting twinks? Its the same advantage, infact it often is a much greater one.
High levels helping lows, most all games restrict this in some way (i.e. reduced XP or some such thing) - in DDO a group member more than a few levels above a quest means reduced or no XP for all, LotRO has a similar system. As for twinking lowbies, certainly an issue but since that stuff was at least earned it is not the same as someone just plopping down the CC and buying power, gameplay advantages, and/or grind avoidence.
I was thinking more about a highlevel helping with a hard dungeon to get good BoE loot that would otherwise require a full group. Whats up with XP focus? People these days spend 95% of their time in MMOs at maxlevel doing endgame stuff like raids or PvP. The times when it took months or even years to maxlevel(if you ever reached it at all) are long over. These days to get maxlevel takes about 10 days /played in most games, in some only half as much.
Originally posted by Rocketeer
If DDO is any example the items in the store will be crap compared to highend crafted gear, having a buddy/main supplying you with critted one time recipe items, now THATs an advantage. You do not seriously think the items in the store will actually compete with true highend gear do you? Not even pure F2P games like Allods or Runes of magic dare to go that far, much less a hybrid game with a actual subscriberbase.
Crap? So you are saying that a new character being able to plop down a couple hundred bucks for a complete set of +2 tomes is crap? Depending on the build that is upwards of a 15% to 20% boost in stats in a game that is all about the stats. Same with things like unlocking the Fav Soul. Sure you, as a VIP subscriber, can grind the favor but the whole poitn of how things are different subbing in F2P verse in P2P is that you have these grind or buy, inconvenience or buy, annoynace or buy situations over and over - this is the heart of F2P. And what about buying in dungeon resserections - a major gameplay advantgage in a game wiht no auto healing or mana restoration over time and with very limited heals (at fixed points in quests and largely on time use) - so as long as you are willing to drop real cash any quest is doing at any difficulty without following the same rules as everyone else (those rules being you got the health and mana you start with and whatever rest shrines there are to get through the quest so use it well or recall and do it over).
Ah and finally we are at the core of our disagreement. Yes. I call a 20% boost in stats crap. Even if that statincrease would translate to 20% faster levelspeed, which it wont by far due to traveltime between quests and mobs and stuff like that, its just a pitiful amount. Its the difference between having +8 strength on a glove(every item actually) or +10 strenght. Nice to have but not necessary. Maybe in a very min/max situation like if you are the tank in an endgame raid it matters, but then again, if you really need the difference you dont want +2 tomes, you want the +4 tomes which you apparently cant get on the store. To me the store seems to be a) for the impatient(faster XP) and b) for middle of the road stuff, not good enough to be topend, but not on the worse end either. So forgive an old raider for calling it crap, if i dont need it to level, and its not the best its crap to me. For normal dungeons it always was skill > gear anyway.
Edit: The favoured soul got talked about to death, paying for a new class is normal for me, getting it free is awesome, but not normal. I dont expect that just because i once got something for free, similar things will forever be free afterwards, thats just a rude expectation. And i hate the resurection thing, it encourages bad gameplay, i would NEVER use it. If your group dies your a) into stuff over your head, b) someone or several someones screwed up badly, you deserve the punishment cause it will teach you. Rambo didnt use anesthetics when he stitched himself up, whould he have used them if he had had some? No, cause thats cheating. Most content in MMOs is to easy anyway, if it gets more challanging by not using these advantages thats a good thing. I want to Ironman that! would be my fav line.
Again, your argument completely ignores how microtransaction games work.
80% or so of the players will not be spending money on the game. That 80% is, to a good degree, content for each other and, more importantly, the paying 20%. The game has to be fun for that 80% otherwise they leave, rsulting in the paying 20% leaving as well.
Once you understand the above you will understand how your argument that the game will be made harder to force the 80% to spend money simply is illogical at best.
In the case of Lotro I disagree. As a freebie player you get about one to two days of "content" before you have to start forking over cash. You only get access to the starter areas which will only last about a day or two at the most. Assuming that there is a way to earn TP's (Turbine Points) through what will probably be some sort of incredible grind (just guessing but perhaps 1 TP per 100 kills?) there will probably be ALLOT of incentive to fork over some cash just to move on. Other F2P games have allot more gameplay before you have to decide if you are going to start dipping into Mr. Wallet. I think this type of free play is allot different then other F2P games that are on the market. Probably, from a company standpoint, allot better designed to pull in cash store payments.
Again, your argument completely ignores how microtransaction games work.
80% or so of the players will not be spending money on the game. That 80% is, to a good degree, content for each other and, more importantly, the paying 20%. The game has to be fun for that 80% otherwise they leave, rsulting in the paying 20% leaving as well.
Once you understand the above you will understand how your argument that the game will be made harder to force the 80% to spend money simply is illogical at best.
In the case of Lotro I disagree. As a freebie player you get about one to two days of "content" before you have to start forking over cash. You only get access to the starter areas which will only last about a day or two at the most. Assuming that there is a way to earn TP's (Turbine Points) through what will probably be some sort of incredible grind (just guessing but perhaps 1 TP per 100 kills?) there will probably be ALLOT of incentive to fork over some cash just to move on. Other F2P games have allot more gameplay before you have to decide if you are going to start dipping into Mr. Wallet. I think this type of free play is allot different then other F2P games that are on the market. Probably, from a company standpoint, allot better designed to pull in cash store payments.
If Turbine follows DDOs style of earning TP the player will get them by completing quest sets and earning faction based reputation. You don't get them from killing monsters or even quests unless those monsters and quests increase faction for something. Unless I've missed something in DDO the player can only earn a limited amount of TP for a given content area without deleting a character, re-rolling, and re-earning that faction over and over and over again until you have enough.
I don't think their content package prices are unfair. If their LotRO content prices are consistent with DDO content I'll probably be happy to buy future content when it's released. My beef with the "rip-off" comes from their treatment of their long standing players. They're reselling some of the same content I "bought". I feel like my long term support for the company isn't appreciated at all and I do feel a bit pushed aside. I realize my attitude is a bit self-entitled, but I spent a long time supporting them and I would have liked a better return for that support. It's not a huge deal, but I certainly don't have any loyalty for them left. I'll likely play when it goes F2S unless another game is more fun like GW2 or RIFT and now could care less if they succeed or fail.
So, leveling characters and deleting them later on so you can recreate them and repeat. That's even more annoying than any other "grind" (talking about negative ones), they could have just tossed some repeatable quests for that purpose or something like that rather than "ok, you've done all the content that reward you with TP, pay or delete your character".
Again, your argument completely ignores how microtransaction games work.
80% or so of the players will not be spending money on the game. That 80% is, to a good degree, content for each other and, more importantly, the paying 20%. The game has to be fun for that 80% otherwise they leave, rsulting in the paying 20% leaving as well.
Once you understand the above you will understand how your argument that the game will be made harder to force the 80% to spend money simply is illogical at best.
In the case of Lotro I disagree. As a freebie player you get about one to two days of "content" before you have to start forking over cash. You only get access to the starter areas which will only last about a day or two at the most. Assuming that there is a way to earn TP's (Turbine Points) through what will probably be some sort of incredible grind (just guessing but perhaps 1 TP per 100 kills?) there will probably be ALLOT of incentive to fork over some cash just to move on. Other F2P games have allot more gameplay before you have to decide if you are going to start dipping into Mr. Wallet. I think this type of free play is allot different then other F2P games that are on the market. Probably, from a company standpoint, allot better designed to pull in cash store payments.
If Turbine follows DDOs style of earning TP the player will get them by completing quest sets and earning faction based reputation. You don't get them from killing monsters or even quests unless those monsters and quests increase faction for something. Unless I've missed something in DDO the player can only earn a limited amount of TP for a given content area without deleting a character, re-rolling, and re-earning that faction over and over and over again until you have enough.
I don't think their content package prices are unfair. If their LotRO content prices are consistent with DDO content I'll probably be happy to buy future content when it's released. My beef with the "rip-off" comes from their treatment of their long standing players. They're reselling some of the same content I "bought". I feel like my long term support for the company isn't appreciated at all and I do feel a bit pushed aside. I realize my attitude is a bit self-entitled, but I spent a long time supporting them and I would have liked a better return for that support. It's not a huge deal, but I certainly don't have any loyalty for them left. I'll likely play when it goes F2S unless another game is more fun like GW2 or RIFT and now could care less if they succeed or fail.
I'm not arguing the prices so much. I"m just thinking that the free to play portion is going to be pretty limited (i.e. probably only a couple of days) for the average visitor without putting some kind of investment back into the game.
.... oh and participating in MMORPG forums is a great past time while skilling up woodworking by making 50 ash spears to get me mastery. Boy tradeskill leveling is pretty time intensive in Lotro!
Again, your argument completely ignores how microtransaction games work.
80% or so of the players will not be spending money on the game. That 80% is, to a good degree, content for each other and, more importantly, the paying 20%. The game has to be fun for that 80% otherwise they leave, rsulting in the paying 20% leaving as well.
Once you understand the above you will understand how your argument that the game will be made harder to force the 80% to spend money simply is illogical at best.
In the case of Lotro I disagree. As a freebie player you get about one to two days of "content" before you have to start forking over cash. You only get access to the starter areas which will only last about a day or two at the most. Assuming that there is a way to earn TP's (Turbine Points) through what will probably be some sort of incredible grind (just guessing but perhaps 1 TP per 100 kills?) there will probably be ALLOT of incentive to fork over some cash just to move on. Other F2P games have allot more gameplay before you have to decide if you are going to start dipping into Mr. Wallet. I think this type of free play is allot different then other F2P games that are on the market. Probably, from a company standpoint, allot better designed to pull in cash store payments.
If Turbine follows DDOs style of earning TP the player will get them by completing quest sets and earning faction based reputation. You don't get them from killing monsters or even quests unless those monsters and quests increase faction for something. Unless I've missed something in DDO the player can only earn a limited amount of TP for a given content area without deleting a character, re-rolling, and re-earning that faction over and over and over again until you have enough.
I don't think their content package prices are unfair. If their LotRO content prices are consistent with DDO content I'll probably be happy to buy future content when it's released. My beef with the "rip-off" comes from their treatment of their long standing players. They're reselling some of the same content I "bought". I feel like my long term support for the company isn't appreciated at all and I do feel a bit pushed aside. I realize my attitude is a bit self-entitled, but I spent a long time supporting them and I would have liked a better return for that support. It's not a huge deal, but I certainly don't have any loyalty for them left. I'll likely play when it goes F2S unless another game is more fun like GW2 or RIFT and now could care less if they succeed or fail.
So, leveling characters and deleting them later on so you can recreate them and repeat. That's even more annoying than any other "grind" (talking about negative ones), they could have just tossed some repeatable quests for that purpose or something like that rather than "ok, you've done all the content that reward you with TP, pay or delete your character".
That's the best I understand it Eric. I think once you unlock some key milestones such as 32point builds, Warforged, and a few character slots you won't need to nuke old toons. At that point you can make permanent characters and treat them like that instead of disposable toons.
For me a big part of the fun with DDO is seeing what I can do without paying a dime. THAT IS the game for me. DDO is less about playing D&D and character development and more about beating the cash shop system. That doesn't stay interesting long for me though so I don't play it much, still it's a different diversion.
Well I"m glad YOUR going to have fun with the new system! :-)
Wow, yet another "out my ass" post. The "purchasable" elements shown relative to VIP's/Lifers are available in expansion packs.
LOTRO is only giving people more choices on how to play the game and spend their money. It has worked out brilliantly in DDO so far. I have a friend there who has never paid a dime, albeit he moves through content slowly, only playing a few hours a week, but we have a blast and he doesnt have to commit to a sub until he has more time available. Turbine even lets me use my free VIP points to open content for him when we play together. I have no use for my bonus points and its a win/win.
If its anything like DDO (which I am pretty safe in assuming it will be) the cash shop, relative to VIP/Lifers will have nothing to offer in the way of content, classes, end game items or critical game elements and be purely used to purchase items that are a "convenience" in terms of travel, temporary boosts/mods, food, pots etc.
And honestly who really cares? If you dont like the game, dont play it. With the free to play beta in progress, those of us who are lifers are enjoying the huge influx of people and finding groups again in the earlier zones. As any game past its 3rd year, LOTRO was top heavy in terms of levels and population, which can be rough on new players or starting alts. With the F2P beta, it is like a re-launch with even more people then I remember.
Good Times.
Del Cabon A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO.
I'm not arguing the prices so much. I"m just thinking that the free to play portion is going to be pretty limited (i.e. probably only a couple of days) for the average visitor without putting some kind of investment back into the game.
Hopefully that's one of the things that the Beta types will be looking at. Is there enough? too much? can you do it in just a couple of races zones? or do you have to do all of the races zones?
From playing the game; while I'm sure you could get to level 50 in a couple of days, I doubt most will burn through all the stuff needed to make lvl 50 that fast. I played fairly regular and was only at mid to high 30's at the end of 4? 5? months. Leveling was a slower process than say AoC's. Of course with LotRO it's very much about playing the game as you go, not rushing to the end.
What they've announced so far: Starter Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf, Man and then the Bree area should keep most busy for a bit and help to weed out those that aren't really there to play the full game, and I'm speaking as one who will return to the game as a premimum player having those above limits on me too.
I'm not arguing the prices so much. I"m just thinking that the free to play portion is going to be pretty limited (i.e. probably only a couple of days) for the average visitor without putting some kind of investment back into the game.
Hopefully that's one of the things that the Beta types will be looking at. Is there enough? too much? can you do it in just a couple of races zones? or do you have to do all of the races zones?
From playing the game; while I'm sure you could get to level 50 in a couple of days, I doubt most will burn through all the stuff needed to make lvl 50 that fast. I played fairly regular and was only at mid to high 30's at the end of 4? 5? months. Leveling was a slower process than say AoC's. Of course with LotRO it's very much about playing the game as you go, not rushing to the end.
What they've announced so far: Starter Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf, Man and then the Bree area should keep most busy for a bit and help to weed out those that aren't really there to play the full game, and I'm speaking as one who will return to the game as a premimum player having those above limits on me too.
Well I sure play often enough but those starter areas (with the exception of Bree) only have quests and mobs upto about level 12, Bree gets you to about lvl 18. Atter that you hit Lonelands and North Downs. Unless you are crazy enough to grind traits (like me) a regular newbie that is just doing quest progression could probably get to lvl 18 or so (Bree) in two days. So they better have some low costs zone purchases and easy ways to earn Turbine Points or this could be a short little ride for the new folks.
I'm not arguing the prices so much. I"m just thinking that the free to play portion is going to be pretty limited (i.e. probably only a couple of days) for the average visitor without putting some kind of investment back into the game.
Hopefully that's one of the things that the Beta types will be looking at. Is there enough? too much? can you do it in just a couple of races zones? or do you have to do all of the races zones?
From playing the game; while I'm sure you could get to level 50 in a couple of days, I doubt most will burn through all the stuff needed to make lvl 50 that fast. I played fairly regular and was only at mid to high 30's at the end of 4? 5? months. Leveling was a slower process than say AoC's. Of course with LotRO it's very much about playing the game as you go, not rushing to the end.
What they've announced so far: Starter Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf, Man and then the Bree area should keep most busy for a bit and help to weed out those that aren't really there to play the full game, and I'm speaking as one who will return to the game as a premimum player having those above limits on me too.
Well I sure play often enough but those starter areas (with the exception of Bree) only have quests and mobs upto about level 12, Bree gets you to about lvl 18. Atter that you hit Lonelands and North Downs. Unless you are crazy enough to grind traits (like me) a regular newbie that is just doing quest progression could probably get to lvl 18 or so (Bree) in two days. So they better have some low costs zone purchases and easy ways to earn Turbine Points or this could be a short little ride for the new folks.
Certain dungeons will be scaleable to level in the next book. Meaning you can pick he level you want that dungeon to be.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I'm not arguing the prices so much. I"m just thinking that the free to play portion is going to be pretty limited (i.e. probably only a couple of days) for the average visitor without putting some kind of investment back into the game.
Hopefully that's one of the things that the Beta types will be looking at. Is there enough? too much? can you do it in just a couple of races zones? or do you have to do all of the races zones?
From playing the game; while I'm sure you could get to level 50 in a couple of days, I doubt most will burn through all the stuff needed to make lvl 50 that fast. I played fairly regular and was only at mid to high 30's at the end of 4? 5? months. Leveling was a slower process than say AoC's. Of course with LotRO it's very much about playing the game as you go, not rushing to the end.
What they've announced so far: Starter Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf, Man and then the Bree area should keep most busy for a bit and help to weed out those that aren't really there to play the full game, and I'm speaking as one who will return to the game as a premimum player having those above limits on me too.
Well I sure play often enough but those starter areas (with the exception of Bree) only have quests and mobs upto about level 12, Bree gets you to about lvl 18. Atter that you hit Lonelands and North Downs. Unless you are crazy enough to grind traits (like me) a regular newbie that is just doing quest progression could probably get to lvl 18 or so (Bree) in two days. So they better have some low costs zone purchases and easy ways to earn Turbine Points or this could be a short little ride for the new folks.
Thats just not true. I recently leveled my warden through there and i was leaving towards lonelands around level 23 after skipping alot of content there. The Barrows easily sees you to level 25, the dungeon there had quests that where still white/yellow to me at 22. And once you are 23 or so you can follow the epic questline pretty much to agamaur, and if you want to complete your slayer deeds in lonelands you need to grind anyway no change to before. Then once you are 30 you can do skirmishes to supplant your slayerdeeds in trollshaws and maybe evendim and do the dungeons in lonelands from maybe level 27 onwards.
The biggest change for a pure F2P player would probably be that he will want to do his slayerdeeds on time, instead of at maxlevel, so it helps with leveling. Also you people totally neglect that the Epic questline offers quite a bit of XP aswell as be time intensive. With the 4 skirmishes per day you can easily do a 2-3 hour playsession per day without ANY grinding, what forces you to grind is more the deeding than the lack of quests.
P.S.: You will get TP for completing deeds not quests in LotRO. Besides the dungeons like barrow downs will scale to level with the next book update.
I'm not arguing the prices so much. I"m just thinking that the free to play portion is going to be pretty limited (i.e. probably only a couple of days) for the average visitor without putting some kind of investment back into the game.
Hopefully that's one of the things that the Beta types will be looking at. Is there enough? too much? can you do it in just a couple of races zones? or do you have to do all of the races zones?
From playing the game; while I'm sure you could get to level 50 in a couple of days, I doubt most will burn through all the stuff needed to make lvl 50 that fast. I played fairly regular and was only at mid to high 30's at the end of 4? 5? months. Leveling was a slower process than say AoC's. Of course with LotRO it's very much about playing the game as you go, not rushing to the end.
What they've announced so far: Starter Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf, Man and then the Bree area should keep most busy for a bit and help to weed out those that aren't really there to play the full game, and I'm speaking as one who will return to the game as a premimum player having those above limits on me too.
Well I sure play often enough but those starter areas (with the exception of Bree) only have quests and mobs upto about level 12, Bree gets you to about lvl 18. Atter that you hit Lonelands and North Downs. Unless you are crazy enough to grind traits (like me) a regular newbie that is just doing quest progression could probably get to lvl 18 or so (Bree) in two days. So they better have some low costs zone purchases and easy ways to earn Turbine Points or this could be a short little ride for the new folks.
Thats just not true. I recently leveled my warden through there and i was leaving towards lonelands around level 23 after skipping alot of content there. The Barrows easily sees you to level 25, the dungeon there had quests that where still white/yellow to me at 22. And once you are 23 or so you can follow the epic questline pretty much to agamaur, and if you want to complete your slayer deeds in lonelands you need to grind anyway no change to before. Then once you are 30 you can do skirmishes to supplant your slayerdeeds in trollshaws and maybe evendim and do the dungeons in lonelands from maybe level 27 onwards.
The biggest change for a pure F2P player would probably be that he will want to do his slayerdeeds on time, instead of at maxlevel, so it helps with leveling. Also you people totally neglect that the Epic questline offers quite a bit of XP aswell as be time intensive. With the 4 skirmishes per day you can easily do a 2-3 hour playsession per day without ANY grinding, what forces you to grind is more the deeding than the lack of quests.
P.S.: You will get TP for completing deeds not quests in LotRO. Besides the dungeons like barrow downs will scale to level with the next book update.
Where is the link that says the instances will all scale to level? I keep hearing it but all they said was that some of the raids will be scalable and did not say if it would scale to each individual level. There is a lot of spin coming out about Lotro and its updates, lets just wait and see what they really deliver. Its the same company that said no plans to go F2P 3 months ago as well, when anyone with even a small amount on business and programing sense can tell that three months agao they knew they where going f2p.
Its the same company that said no plans to go F2P 3 months ago as well, when anyone with even a small amount on business and programing sense can tell that three months agao they knew they where going f2p.
Do you have a link to that statement? I know they've regularly said they have no plans to abandon the subscription model, but I don't recall them saying there were no plans for microtransactions.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Its the same company that said no plans to go F2P 3 months ago as well, when anyone with even a small amount on business and programing sense can tell that three months agao they knew they where going f2p.
Do you have a link to that statement. I know they've regularly said they have no plans to abandon the subscription model, but I don't recall them saying there were no plans for microtransactions.
Of course not, it was conveniently purged in their so called "forum house cleaning" one week before the anouncement of going F2P. They said "No plans to go F2P" and it was less than 3 months ago in a pretty heated thread between some players who wanted a F2P Lotro.
Its the same company that said no plans to go F2P 3 months ago as well, when anyone with even a small amount on business and programing sense can tell that three months agao they knew they where going f2p.
Do you have a link to that statement. I know they've regularly said they have no plans to abandon the subscription model, but I don't recall them saying there were no plans for microtransactions.
Of course not, it was conveniently purged in their so called "forum house cleaning" one week before the anouncement of going F2P. They said "No plans to go F2P" and it was less than 3 months ago in a pretty heated thread between some players who wanted a F2P Lotro.
Im pretty sure threads had to be 6 months old to be pruned ...
Its the same company that said no plans to go F2P 3 months ago as well, when anyone with even a small amount on business and programing sense can tell that three months agao they knew they where going f2p.
Do you have a link to that statement. I know they've regularly said they have no plans to abandon the subscription model, but I don't recall them saying there were no plans for microtransactions.
Of course not, it was conveniently purged in their so called "forum house cleaning" one week before the anouncement of going F2P. They said "No plans to go F2P" and it was less than 3 months ago in a pretty heated thread between some players who wanted a F2P Lotro.
Im pretty sure threads had to be 6 months old to be pruned ...
Exactly. ; )
Its common knowledge it existed man, people only argue what they remember the wording as. It was prunned, it was not even close to 6 months old and they made the mistake of doing it to a huge thread that many many of the foum goers participated in.
It would have been slapped in thier face on a daily basis if they didnt have it "whacked". Now its their forum and they can do what they want but it really only goes to put their credibility on the line. Turbine has been blowing rainbows up their players arses for quite a while now.
I'm not arguing the prices so much. I"m just thinking that the free to play portion is going to be pretty limited (i.e. probably only a couple of days) for the average visitor without putting some kind of investment back into the game.
Hopefully that's one of the things that the Beta types will be looking at. Is there enough? too much? can you do it in just a couple of races zones? or do you have to do all of the races zones?
From playing the game; while I'm sure you could get to level 50 in a couple of days, I doubt most will burn through all the stuff needed to make lvl 50 that fast. I played fairly regular and was only at mid to high 30's at the end of 4? 5? months. Leveling was a slower process than say AoC's. Of course with LotRO it's very much about playing the game as you go, not rushing to the end.
What they've announced so far: Starter Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf, Man and then the Bree area should keep most busy for a bit and help to weed out those that aren't really there to play the full game, and I'm speaking as one who will return to the game as a premium player having those above limits on me too.
Well I sure play often enough but those starter areas (with the exception of Bree) only have quests and mobs upto about level 12, Bree gets you to about lvl 18. Atter that you hit Lonelands and North Downs. Unless you are crazy enough to grind traits (like me) a regular newbie that is just doing quest progression could probably get to lvl 18 or so (Bree) in two days. So they better have some low costs zone purchases and easy ways to earn Turbine Points or this could be a short little ride for the new folks.
Thats just not true. I recently leveled my warden through there and i was leaving towards lonelands around level 23 after skipping alot of content there. The Barrows easily sees you to level 25, the dungeon there had quests that where still white/yellow to me at 22. And once you are 23 or so you can follow the epic questline pretty much to agamaur, and if you want to complete your slayer deeds in lonelands you need to grind anyway no change to before. Then once you are 30 you can do skirmishes to supplant your slayerdeeds in trollshaws and maybe evendim and do the dungeons in lonelands from maybe level 27 onwards.
The biggest change for a pure F2P player would probably be that he will want to do his slayerdeeds on time, instead of at maxlevel, so it helps with leveling. Also you people totally neglect that the Epic questline offers quite a bit of XP aswell as be time intensive. With the 4 skirmishes per day you can easily do a 2-3 hour playsession per day without ANY grinding, what forces you to grind is more the deeding than the lack of quests.
P.S.: You will get TP for completing deeds not quests in LotRO. Besides the dungeons like barrow downs will scale to level with the next book update.
There's been so much stuff flying back and forth lately it's hard to keep up. For a quick look back I think my lvl 50 comment is wrong. Looks like (average) content-wise it's lvl 1 - 20 free, books up to lvl 50 prior to going into MoM. Lonelands will be the first have to buy area for content.
I checked my ref stuff and the Lonelands and North Downs are listed as lvl 20-30 zones so that kind of supports that.
I did forget about the books giving quest points and since skirmishes (although I thought 4 was the number for VIP and 2 would be for Free/Premium players) don't start until after the 'free' part (without a bunch of grinding in those areas) I left them out of the mix. The Great Barrow scaling will be nice, but isn't that pretty much the only 'real' dungeon in the beginning?
Now I know a Free/Premium player won't be able to access quests in unlocked zones, but has anything been said about the MOB's in those zone's? In effect could a non-paying player go to say the Trollshaws and farm for XP? Sounds strange and would have both it's good and bad points if so.
Like I said at the start, the Beta testers have their work cut out for them. My big wonders are: 1) How much area will I have to play in. 2) Will I get 'rolled back' since I know I left my warden in a non-free zone with quests hanging. 3) Will I have to buy the zones between the free part and MoM (since I have that expansion or can I just level up in the free and jump those area's to go to MoM. 4) Will I get to pick those items in my now extra inventory bags that I want moved over to the useful bags or will Turbine just leave open the beginning bags with whatever is in them. 5) Dungeon scaling - will they just pull the DDO version straight across? Which would be nice since it's a tried and true method and will it just be for special dungeons or all? i.e. the Spider celler in the beginning man area, fairly easy as is, but scaled up could be lot's more fun.
I'm not arguing the prices so much. I"m just thinking that the free to play portion is going to be pretty limited (i.e. probably only a couple of days) for the average visitor without putting some kind of investment back into the game.
Hopefully that's one of the things that the Beta types will be looking at. Is there enough? too much? can you do it in just a couple of races zones? or do you have to do all of the races zones?
From playing the game; while I'm sure you could get to level 50 in a couple of days, I doubt most will burn through all the stuff needed to make lvl 50 that fast. I played fairly regular and was only at mid to high 30's at the end of 4? 5? months. Leveling was a slower process than say AoC's. Of course with LotRO it's very much about playing the game as you go, not rushing to the end.
What they've announced so far: Starter Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf, Man and then the Bree area should keep most busy for a bit and help to weed out those that aren't really there to play the full game, and I'm speaking as one who will return to the game as a premium player having those above limits on me too.
Well I sure play often enough but those starter areas (with the exception of Bree) only have quests and mobs upto about level 12, Bree gets you to about lvl 18. Atter that you hit Lonelands and North Downs. Unless you are crazy enough to grind traits (like me) a regular newbie that is just doing quest progression could probably get to lvl 18 or so (Bree) in two days. So they better have some low costs zone purchases and easy ways to earn Turbine Points or this could be a short little ride for the new folks.
Thats just not true. I recently leveled my warden through there and i was leaving towards lonelands around level 23 after skipping alot of content there. The Barrows easily sees you to level 25, the dungeon there had quests that where still white/yellow to me at 22. And once you are 23 or so you can follow the epic questline pretty much to agamaur, and if you want to complete your slayer deeds in lonelands you need to grind anyway no change to before. Then once you are 30 you can do skirmishes to supplant your slayerdeeds in trollshaws and maybe evendim and do the dungeons in lonelands from maybe level 27 onwards.
The biggest change for a pure F2P player would probably be that he will want to do his slayerdeeds on time, instead of at maxlevel, so it helps with leveling. Also you people totally neglect that the Epic questline offers quite a bit of XP aswell as be time intensive. With the 4 skirmishes per day you can easily do a 2-3 hour playsession per day without ANY grinding, what forces you to grind is more the deeding than the lack of quests.
P.S.: You will get TP for completing deeds not quests in LotRO. Besides the dungeons like barrow downs will scale to level with the next book update.
There's been so much stuff flying back and forth lately it's hard to keep up. For a quick look back I think my lvl 50 comment is wrong. Looks like (average) content-wise it's lvl 1 - 20 free, books up to lvl 50 prior to going into MoM. Lonelands will be the first have to buy area for content.
I checked my ref stuff and the Lonelands and North Downs are listed as lvl 20-30 zones so that kind of supports that.
That is correct, Lonelands starts at 20, but that doesnt mean Bree ends at 20, there is lots of overlap in zones. Here is my proof. The final quest in the great barrows, Evils Final Chapter, is questlevel 25.
I did forget about the books giving quest points and since skirmishes (although I thought 4 was the number for VIP and 2 would be for Free/Premium players) don't start until after the 'free' part (without a bunch of grinding in those areas) I left them out of the mix. The Great Barrow scaling will be nice, but isn't that pretty much the only 'real' dungeon in the beginning?
Yes its the only real dungeon and according to the VIP chart free players get 4 skirmishes, but you should still leave Bree around level 25 if you do everything. To be more precise if you do the quests in Archet, Combe, Staddle, Midgewater Marsh, Buckland, Old Forest, Adso's Camp, Barrow Downs and the Great Barrows you will be around that level. I left out staddle and buckland an i still was level 25 before i got to lonelands.
Now I know a Free/Premium player won't be able to access quests in unlocked zones, but has anything been said about the MOB's in those zone's? In effect could a non-paying player go to say the Trollshaws and farm for XP? Sounds strange and would have both it's good and bad points if so.
Only quests are barred, you can freely move and bash mobs, aswell as gain the slayer and exploration deeds.
Like I said at the start, the Beta testers have their work cut out for them. My big wonders are: 1) How much area will I have to play in. 2) Will I get 'rolled back' since I know I left my warden in a non-free zone with quests hanging. 3) Will I have to buy the zones between the free part and MoM (since I have that expansion or can I just level up in the free and jump those area's to go to MoM. 4) Will I get to pick those items in my now extra inventory bags that I want moved over to the useful bags or will Turbine just leave open the beginning bags with whatever is in them. 5) Dungeon scaling - will they just pull the DDO version straight across? Which would be nice since it's a tried and true method and will it just be for special dungeons or all? i.e. the Spider celler in the beginning man area, fairly easy as is, but scaled up could be lot's more fun.
1. You can move around in everything up to the content that requires the MoM expansion. Quests will only be acceptable in Ered Luin, Bree and the Shire.
2. No, if you have a Warden you have the MoM expansion, which means you are a premium player by default. It also means you get access to everything including quests in MoM in addition to 1. You will not be able to take quests in the areas between those mentionend in 1. and MoM however. Perks from the MoM expansion like the 2 extra charslots are still active, so you get them in addition to what is listen in the VIP chart.
3. You do not HAVE to buy the quests in those zones, you can if you want to do them. Or you can just follow the epic questline and do the rest with skirmishes or grinding. A skirmish takes around 30 min for me, you get 4 per day. Decide for yourself .
4. Not sure what you mean here, if you buy additional bagspace, or have bought the adventure pack in the past, yes you can use them, and no Turbine wont touch your stuff.
5. Thats my take, they mentioned full level and loot scaling, so in theory even a level 65 could find useful stuff in the great barrows. Pretty obvious they wont touch the natural order of stuff though, gear from raids > 6 mans > 3 mans > solo with crafting somewhere inbetween.
That is correct, Lonelands starts at 20, but that doesnt mean Bree ends at 20, there is lots of overlap in zones. Here is my proof. The final quest in the great barrows, Evils Final Chapter, is questlevel 25.
Oh I know, since they needed somekind of name for it I just picked what AoC pretty much calls theirs and it's the same. If you do all the quests you can leave the starter island at lvl 24 or 25 even though officially F/C calls it the Forever Free Lvl 1 - 20 Trial. Turbine didn't use those same words but did say at one point 'up to lvl 20'.
2) Will I get 'rolled back' since I know I left my warden in a non-free zone with quests hanging.
2. No, if you have a Warden you have the MoM expansion, which means you are a premium player by default. It also means you get access to everything including quests in MoM in addition to 1. You will not be able to take quests in the areas between those mentionend in 1. and MoM however. Perks from the MoM expansion like the 2 extra charslots are still active, so you get them in addition to what is listen in the VIP chart.
What I meant was I left some Trollshaw quests hanging including my lvl 30 professional one. Now since I'm not in a free zone and haven't bought it, will I get those quests deleted? Or will Turbine allow players to finish quests that are already in thier quest log?
4) Will I get to pick those items in my now extra inventory bags that I want moved over to the useful bags or will Turbine just leave open the beginning bags with whatever is in them.
What I meant was as a premium player I only get 3 inventory bags, but I currently have 5. Now when they 'grey out' the extra bags will I get a pop up at the first log in telling me to move items around, putting things in storage in effect in the greyed out one's, or will they just auto grey out nr. 4 & 5?
- I'm trying to look at this move from the eyes of a brand new player or someone who may drop their old main and roll an alt in order to get the full benifit of the free area's. Hopefully the Beta testers will have gone into the game the same way. I don't know what the numbers mix was for the testers but I hope it wasn't all just the current sub's and LT types as I'd think they would be the worse one's to check this stuff out. A few of them, a few of the lapsed sub types and more brand new F2p would be better. Since those will be the one's this is directed at.
The way I read it was that if you were previously a VIP before the switch you would not lose access to any of your bags, same with gold limit and a bunch of other stuff too.
That is correct, Lonelands starts at 20, but that doesnt mean Bree ends at 20, there is lots of overlap in zones. Here is my proof. The final quest in the great barrows, Evils Final Chapter, is questlevel 25.
Oh I know, since they needed somekind of name for it I just picked what AoC pretty much calls theirs and it's the same. If you do all the quests you can leave the starter island at lvl 24 or 25 even though officially F/C calls it the Forever Free Lvl 1 - 20 Trial. Turbine didn't use those same words but did say at one point 'up to lvl 20'.
2) Will I get 'rolled back' since I know I left my warden in a non-free zone with quests hanging.
2. No, if you have a Warden you have the MoM expansion, which means you are a premium player by default. It also means you get access to everything including quests in MoM in addition to 1. You will not be able to take quests in the areas between those mentionend in 1. and MoM however. Perks from the MoM expansion like the 2 extra charslots are still active, so you get them in addition to what is listen in the VIP chart.
What I meant was I left some Trollshaw quests hanging including my lvl 30 professional one. Now since I'm not in a free zone and haven't bought it, will I get those quests deleted? Or will Turbine allow players to finish quests that are already in thier quest log?
4) Will I get to pick those items in my now extra inventory bags that I want moved over to the useful bags or will Turbine just leave open the beginning bags with whatever is in them.
What I meant was as a premium player I only get 3 inventory bags, but I currently have 5. Now when they 'grey out' the extra bags will I get a pop up at the first log in telling me to move items around, putting things in storage in effect in the greyed out one's, or will they just auto grey out nr. 4 & 5?
- I'm trying to look at this move from the eyes of a brand new player or someone who may drop their old main and roll an alt in order to get the full benifit of the free area's. Hopefully the Beta testers will have gone into the game the same way. I don't know what the numbers mix was for the testers but I hope it wasn't all just the current sub's and LT types as I'd think they would be the worse one's to check this stuff out. A few of them, a few of the lapsed sub types and more brand new F2p would be better. Since those will be the one's this is directed at.
2. Thats a tough question and afaik there is no word out yet. But id venture a guess that class and profession quests do not count towards a regions quests that you have to buy. Really the region is not at all locked or anything, they simply put all the NPCs with quests in the same region into one group, and you can buy access to that group. So for example the quest that you get sending you from bree towards lonelands, would still work, because the npc starting it is not in the "Lonelands questgiver group". Its quite different from the system AoC or Warhammer use, where the zones or levels are locked.
4. This was already answered, but you have to keep in mind that their VIP chart is from the view of a F2P player that created an account after F2P went life and who does not hold any expansion or adventure pack. There are many special rules for ex-VIPs, as which previous subscribers are considered. I think the situation in DDO is similar, so if your familiar with that it might help.
Comments
I couldn't help reading this article (and others on the subject) and see strong parellels to this F2P move in MMOs. Quoted portion being of particular application to this discussion.
"“The more bandwidth that you make available, the faster it will be consumed,” said Craig Moffett, analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. in New York. “From Verizon’s perspective, the last thing you want is for another generation of consumers to be conditioned to the idea that data is always going to be uncapped.”"
Conditioned is an interesting choice of words. That is what MMO companies are doing now, trying to recondition people to paying more in smaller increments. Think about it - back when smart phones (iPhone, Android, Windows, etc) where not really a market they went to unlimited data plans to draw people in. But now that the market is established they are pulling back. This kind of consumer manipulation is common and it is very much what is happening with MMOs and F2P, it is all about breaking out of the $15 a month all included model (a very cheap overall entertainment model). Turbine is doing that with this hybrid model, trying to give the impression that you are getting the same with a sub and the F2P part is just another 'option', but they ignore the fundamental change to the game that going cash shop, even with a sub option, has on the game and too many people ignore how that fundamental change will steer things in a very different direction over time.
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In the case of Lotro I disagree. As a freebie player you get about one to two days of "content" before you have to start forking over cash. You only get access to the starter areas which will only last about a day or two at the most. Assuming that there is a way to earn TP's (Turbine Points) through what will probably be some sort of incredible grind (just guessing but perhaps 1 TP per 100 kills?) there will probably be ALLOT of incentive to fork over some cash just to move on. Other F2P games have allot more gameplay before you have to decide if you are going to start dipping into Mr. Wallet. I think this type of free play is allot different then other F2P games that are on the market. Probably, from a company standpoint, allot better designed to pull in cash store payments.
So, leveling characters and deleting them later on so you can recreate them and repeat. That's even more annoying than any other "grind" (talking about negative ones), they could have just tossed some repeatable quests for that purpose or something like that rather than "ok, you've done all the content that reward you with TP, pay or delete your character".
I'm not arguing the prices so much. I"m just thinking that the free to play portion is going to be pretty limited (i.e. probably only a couple of days) for the average visitor without putting some kind of investment back into the game.
.... oh and participating in MMORPG forums is a great past time while skilling up woodworking by making 50 ash spears to get me mastery. Boy tradeskill leveling is pretty time intensive in Lotro!
Well I"m glad YOUR going to have fun with the new system! :-)
Wow, yet another "out my ass" post. The "purchasable" elements shown relative to VIP's/Lifers are available in expansion packs.
LOTRO is only giving people more choices on how to play the game and spend their money. It has worked out brilliantly in DDO so far. I have a friend there who has never paid a dime, albeit he moves through content slowly, only playing a few hours a week, but we have a blast and he doesnt have to commit to a sub until he has more time available. Turbine even lets me use my free VIP points to open content for him when we play together. I have no use for my bonus points and its a win/win.
If its anything like DDO (which I am pretty safe in assuming it will be) the cash shop, relative to VIP/Lifers will have nothing to offer in the way of content, classes, end game items or critical game elements and be purely used to purchase items that are a "convenience" in terms of travel, temporary boosts/mods, food, pots etc.
And honestly who really cares? If you dont like the game, dont play it. With the free to play beta in progress, those of us who are lifers are enjoying the huge influx of people and finding groups again in the earlier zones. As any game past its 3rd year, LOTRO was top heavy in terms of levels and population, which can be rough on new players or starting alts. With the F2P beta, it is like a re-launch with even more people then I remember.
Good Times.
Del Cabon
A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO.
Hopefully that's one of the things that the Beta types will be looking at. Is there enough? too much? can you do it in just a couple of races zones? or do you have to do all of the races zones?
From playing the game; while I'm sure you could get to level 50 in a couple of days, I doubt most will burn through all the stuff needed to make lvl 50 that fast. I played fairly regular and was only at mid to high 30's at the end of 4? 5? months. Leveling was a slower process than say AoC's. Of course with LotRO it's very much about playing the game as you go, not rushing to the end.
What they've announced so far: Starter Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf, Man and then the Bree area should keep most busy for a bit and help to weed out those that aren't really there to play the full game, and I'm speaking as one who will return to the game as a premimum player having those above limits on me too.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Well I sure play often enough but those starter areas (with the exception of Bree) only have quests and mobs upto about level 12, Bree gets you to about lvl 18. Atter that you hit Lonelands and North Downs. Unless you are crazy enough to grind traits (like me) a regular newbie that is just doing quest progression could probably get to lvl 18 or so (Bree) in two days. So they better have some low costs zone purchases and easy ways to earn Turbine Points or this could be a short little ride for the new folks.
Certain dungeons will be scaleable to level in the next book. Meaning you can pick he level you want that dungeon to be.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Thats just not true. I recently leveled my warden through there and i was leaving towards lonelands around level 23 after skipping alot of content there. The Barrows easily sees you to level 25, the dungeon there had quests that where still white/yellow to me at 22. And once you are 23 or so you can follow the epic questline pretty much to agamaur, and if you want to complete your slayer deeds in lonelands you need to grind anyway no change to before. Then once you are 30 you can do skirmishes to supplant your slayerdeeds in trollshaws and maybe evendim and do the dungeons in lonelands from maybe level 27 onwards.
The biggest change for a pure F2P player would probably be that he will want to do his slayerdeeds on time, instead of at maxlevel, so it helps with leveling. Also you people totally neglect that the Epic questline offers quite a bit of XP aswell as be time intensive. With the 4 skirmishes per day you can easily do a 2-3 hour playsession per day without ANY grinding, what forces you to grind is more the deeding than the lack of quests.
P.S.: You will get TP for completing deeds not quests in LotRO. Besides the dungeons like barrow downs will scale to level with the next book update.
Where is the link that says the instances will all scale to level? I keep hearing it but all they said was that some of the raids will be scalable and did not say if it would scale to each individual level. There is a lot of spin coming out about Lotro and its updates, lets just wait and see what they really deliver. Its the same company that said no plans to go F2P 3 months ago as well, when anyone with even a small amount on business and programing sense can tell that three months agao they knew they where going f2p.
Do you have a link to that statement? I know they've regularly said they have no plans to abandon the subscription model, but I don't recall them saying there were no plans for microtransactions.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Of course not, it was conveniently purged in their so called "forum house cleaning" one week before the anouncement of going F2P. They said "No plans to go F2P" and it was less than 3 months ago in a pretty heated thread between some players who wanted a F2P Lotro.
Im pretty sure threads had to be 6 months old to be pruned ...
Exactly. ; )
Its common knowledge it existed man, people only argue what they remember the wording as. It was prunned, it was not even close to 6 months old and they made the mistake of doing it to a huge thread that many many of the foum goers participated in.
It would have been slapped in thier face on a daily basis if they didnt have it "whacked". Now its their forum and they can do what they want but it really only goes to put their credibility on the line. Turbine has been blowing rainbows up their players arses for quite a while now.
Its funny to see who desperate the haters are becoming, just spinning and making things up as they go.
What are they so afraid off?
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
LOL.
Typical.
There's been so much stuff flying back and forth lately it's hard to keep up. For a quick look back I think my lvl 50 comment is wrong. Looks like (average) content-wise it's lvl 1 - 20 free, books up to lvl 50 prior to going into MoM. Lonelands will be the first have to buy area for content.
I checked my ref stuff and the Lonelands and North Downs are listed as lvl 20-30 zones so that kind of supports that.
I did forget about the books giving quest points and since skirmishes (although I thought 4 was the number for VIP and 2 would be for Free/Premium players) don't start until after the 'free' part (without a bunch of grinding in those areas) I left them out of the mix. The Great Barrow scaling will be nice, but isn't that pretty much the only 'real' dungeon in the beginning?
Now I know a Free/Premium player won't be able to access quests in unlocked zones, but has anything been said about the MOB's in those zone's? In effect could a non-paying player go to say the Trollshaws and farm for XP? Sounds strange and would have both it's good and bad points if so.
Like I said at the start, the Beta testers have their work cut out for them. My big wonders are: 1) How much area will I have to play in. 2) Will I get 'rolled back' since I know I left my warden in a non-free zone with quests hanging. 3) Will I have to buy the zones between the free part and MoM (since I have that expansion or can I just level up in the free and jump those area's to go to MoM. 4) Will I get to pick those items in my now extra inventory bags that I want moved over to the useful bags or will Turbine just leave open the beginning bags with whatever is in them. 5) Dungeon scaling - will they just pull the DDO version straight across? Which would be nice since it's a tried and true method and will it just be for special dungeons or all? i.e. the Spider celler in the beginning man area, fairly easy as is, but scaled up could be lot's more fun.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Originally posted by Rocketeer:
That is correct, Lonelands starts at 20, but that doesnt mean Bree ends at 20, there is lots of overlap in zones. Here is my proof. The final quest in the great barrows, Evils Final Chapter, is questlevel 25.
Oh I know, since they needed somekind of name for it I just picked what AoC pretty much calls theirs and it's the same. If you do all the quests you can leave the starter island at lvl 24 or 25 even though officially F/C calls it the Forever Free Lvl 1 - 20 Trial. Turbine didn't use those same words but did say at one point 'up to lvl 20'.
2) Will I get 'rolled back' since I know I left my warden in a non-free zone with quests hanging.
2. No, if you have a Warden you have the MoM expansion, which means you are a premium player by default. It also means you get access to everything including quests in MoM in addition to 1. You will not be able to take quests in the areas between those mentionend in 1. and MoM however. Perks from the MoM expansion like the 2 extra charslots are still active, so you get them in addition to what is listen in the VIP chart.
What I meant was I left some Trollshaw quests hanging including my lvl 30 professional one. Now since I'm not in a free zone and haven't bought it, will I get those quests deleted? Or will Turbine allow players to finish quests that are already in thier quest log?
4) Will I get to pick those items in my now extra inventory bags that I want moved over to the useful bags or will Turbine just leave open the beginning bags with whatever is in them.
What I meant was as a premium player I only get 3 inventory bags, but I currently have 5. Now when they 'grey out' the extra bags will I get a pop up at the first log in telling me to move items around, putting things in storage in effect in the greyed out one's, or will they just auto grey out nr. 4 & 5?
- I'm trying to look at this move from the eyes of a brand new player or someone who may drop their old main and roll an alt in order to get the full benifit of the free area's. Hopefully the Beta testers will have gone into the game the same way. I don't know what the numbers mix was for the testers but I hope it wasn't all just the current sub's and LT types as I'd think they would be the worse one's to check this stuff out. A few of them, a few of the lapsed sub types and more brand new F2p would be better. Since those will be the one's this is directed at.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
The way I read it was that if you were previously a VIP before the switch you would not lose access to any of your bags, same with gold limit and a bunch of other stuff too.
2. Thats a tough question and afaik there is no word out yet. But id venture a guess that class and profession quests do not count towards a regions quests that you have to buy. Really the region is not at all locked or anything, they simply put all the NPCs with quests in the same region into one group, and you can buy access to that group. So for example the quest that you get sending you from bree towards lonelands, would still work, because the npc starting it is not in the "Lonelands questgiver group". Its quite different from the system AoC or Warhammer use, where the zones or levels are locked.
4. This was already answered, but you have to keep in mind that their VIP chart is from the view of a F2P player that created an account after F2P went life and who does not hold any expansion or adventure pack. There are many special rules for ex-VIPs, as which previous subscribers are considered. I think the situation in DDO is similar, so if your familiar with that it might help.