Alright, lets get this straight, it is only over for those who give up on change, and in that case, how is real life helping you?, life is about change, one mind set you must change to find happiness in everythign is you don't know what you ever wanted.
Agreed. It is about change. Unfortunately, I think age has a lot to do with it. But not in the way you might expect.
When I was younger, I always thought that older people were the ones who were rigid, didn't like change, etc. Now that I'm in my 50's, I see the exact opposite. In my day-to-day dealings with people, it always seems like the 20-25 year old crowd are the ones who go into a tail-spin at even the hint of change. In my work I see it also. It's almost always the younger workers who freak out when things change unexpectedly and they create a whole bunch of drama around it.
The guy I do most of my work for even notices it. In fact, he's stopped hiring people right of out college altogether. If he doesn't see 10 years of experience on a resume, it goes into the trash. He says its easier to cope with missing a few good hires than to deal with the mindset of the younger workers.
I remember GenX, I remember GenY, but when the hell did we get Gen Emo? It's all about rage and drama. Unreal.
Believe me, it's not just in the gaming community.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -Winston Churchill
A couple of days ago, a couple of the folks that I have gamed with since HLDM (played SWG and WoW with), were kind of shaking their heads at what I was saying on our forums over there - cause they have basically given up on the current MMORPGs. They wonder if SW:TOR will renew their interests in the MMORPG genre.
For some of us, it is not about the community - we all hang out in various forums and the rest - it comes down to whether we will go to a game (we will bring our own community with us)... and there just are no games out there now that we can agree on to be bothered with as a group.
They look back on preNGE/CU SWG with fondness. They even look back on Vanilla WoW with fondness. Speaking of which, in an odd sense - BC and WotLK were there own forms of NGE if you think about it. One of the guys had tried to get them interested in returning for Cata, but most of them had not even upgraded to WotLK...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Big Business ruined MMO's once WoWs profit caught it's attention.
Now everyone is just looking to cash in. No longer is it about innovative persistent worlds. Funny thing, is the next MMO to have WoW sales numbers really NEEDS to be the true "Next Gen" MMO, NOT ANOTHER WoW wannabe!
Devs are fools for not realizing the fact; IF PEOPLE WANT A WOW TYPE MMO, THEY WILL PLAY WOW!
To the OP, I am a SWG vet from the start (among other MMOs after the NGE holocaust), and agree, but I am having a blast in AoC with my brother (also SWG vet from launch). AoC is the only MMO that don't feel like a kids game (Besides EVE). I love how AoC sticks to the old Conan books. It isn't perfect, but it's the best MMO out atm.
Big Business ruined MMO's once WoWs profit caught it's attention.
Now everyone is just looking to cash in. No longer is it about innovative persistent worlds. Funny thing, is the next MMO to have WoW sales numbers really NEEDS to be the true "Next Gen" MMO, NOT ANOTHER WoW wannabe!
Devs are fools for not realizing the fact; IF PEOPLE WANT A WOW TYPE MMO, THEY WILL PLAY WOW!
To the OP, I am a SWG vet from the start (among other MMOs after the NGE holocaust), and agree, but I am having a blast in AoC with my brother (also SWG vet from launch). AoC is the only MMO that don't feel like a kids game (Besides EVE). I love how AoC sticks to the old Conan books. It isn't perfect, but it's the best MMO out atm.
It was never about innovative persistent worlds. It has ALWAYS been about money. That's life, deal with it.
"realize that gaming is just like life, and if you arguement is that life is what you make of it, why not gaming?"
Because you don't buy life from a company selling it.
We in NO WAY should just accept half a$$ed games made with no innovation, just for some greedy company to profit. Not even close to living lifes changes. You don't just accept all life changes, well I don't. I don't accept something changing for the WORSE. I do my best to change for the better, thus accepting change for the BETTER.
If MMOs changed for THE BETTER I would be all for change. We CAN CHOOSE THIS BY SPEAKING WITH OUR WALLETS.
Don't support garbage, and companies will step up their game or fail.
There is no lost love. Nothing has changed. Go back and play them. Just kill, grind kill grind. There was no WOW, EQ2 blah blah so what we played was NEW. You've just played it way to many times.
As for " Buy a Harley".. whats that mean? A picture of something again thats not real. Copying something from something you saw, trying to be THAT picture so to speak. Just be yourself. Take each day like it comes.. NEW and Thank GOD for it.
As soon as Diablo 3 gets here I'll be caring less about mmos and will probably play mor eon the console than the pc. MMOs are becoming too much about the hype and cash shops now which isn't how most people envisioned how mmos would wind up. The developers themselves are ruining the mmo genre with their greed and lack of creativity. Looks like I'll be sticking to online rpgs, rts and fps games from now on if this continues.
As soon as Diablo 3 gets here I'll be caring less about mmos and will probably play mor eon the console than the pc. MMOs are becoming too much about the hype and cash shops now which isn't how most people envisioned how mmos would wind up. The developers themselves are ruining the mmo genre with their greed and lack of creativity. Looks like I'll be sticking to online rpgs, rts and fps games from now on if this continues.
I really hate to suggest this and really hate to rain on your parade, but what are the odds that Diablo 3 will have downloadable content?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Alright, lets get this straight, it is only over for those who give up on change, and in that case, how is real life helping you?, life is about change, one mind set you must change to find happiness in everythign is you don't know what you ever wanted. In MMOs you are a vet of what mmos used to be, but just like life, the world changes, I have played almost every mmo out there and I still find them fun, the community is there you just have to give it a chance, people are to worried about wanting a gamer 100% like they believe it should be that they leave no room for innovation like they did. MMOs are following the same track you are, you change because now you push innovation away, when mmos first came out you embraced that it was different, why not now?, why not create your own community, realize that gaming is just like life, and if you arguement is that life is what you make of it, why not gaming?
A shoe easily put on the other foot. Why are you afraid of change? You are stuck on what is, and afraid of what could be, like to hell with innovation. It’s like from the beginning “OMG WTF these games suck, they need to change and be like Diablo and we will in no way co-exist with you“. I mean you want to talk about (like what the other guy brought up) Emo attitude?!? “OMG someone likes something different than what I like *throws a tizzy fit and QQ’s*”
Really, why are so many people afraid, petrified, of other games existing that they may not care for?? So you don’t like sandbox slow-progression non-instanced massively co-op social games. GET OVER IT! Damn, follow everyone else jumping off a cliff lately?
I have no problem with change, I have a problem with people making everything the same. That’s not change, that’s stupidity and ignorance. The change that has come is no change at all, but stale CRPG game play (along with it‘s non-mmo players), by way of instances and a bunch of other goofy assed systems that take away the mmo aspect of the games. I don’t give a rats ass if you have your games like that, but slamming others for what they like and have played for years and they wanting to innovate upon is just childish and selfish behavior. Not fully aimed at you, there is enough to go around.
So go ahead and cry your eyeballs out because someone does no like what you like, thinks your games are for simpletons, because that is the real world. And that world will eventually chew you up and spit you out in time as you set yourself up for it.
I'd really like to see a reality check go on around here and other forums regarding such topics. You only hurt yourself first as it stands. Innovation is in no way a narrow road, and should not be. Diversity is not an ebil word.
Originally posted by uquipu Originally posted by VistaakahStep 1. Kill mobs Step 2. Level Step 3. Kill more mobs Step 4. Realize we've all been mindlessly doing it for HOW many years for me its over 12 years but no longer.
. You play for the wrong reasons. MMOs never where that challenging. . You play to hang out with guildies and friends.
Wrong. You play MMOs for the exact same reason you play non MMOs. You like playing video games.
People keep talking about adapting to the way stuff changes and whatnot, and I guess that's somewhat an issue, but the fact is that we're not adapting to improvements, we are more or less having to put up with games becoming worse. Much like pop music has gone downhill from the start, so too has the mmo genre.
If adapting to change means i have to listen to play the Lady Gaga of mmo's... I guess that's it for me..
I am looking forward to Guild Wars 2, though. The more I read about it, the more promising it actually seems. The fact that they are putting an effort into exploration is something I very much appreciate.
I'd also like to say that I'm very familiar with how the thread starter feels. The poeple I've played MMO's with in the past are basically like me at this point, just can't be bothered. I actually do blame it partly on the fact that the genre went from being a quirky game for people who had their own credit cards (above the age of 18, for the most part) to what it is now, a genre that rewards elitist kids and douchebags. Back in the day when a party got wiped, most people had a chuckle and we went back in. These days, the first thing you see when someone gets nuked by a boss is some guy blaming everyone around him cause he's terrified of being blamed himself. OMG NOOBS!!! .... The whole attitude towards everything has changed. The purple loot that lies at the end of the dungeon crawl is all that matters, and when a party wipes.. That means the loot, most likely, will not get looted.. And people throw a hissy fit..
Said it before and I'll say it again.. Create geezer servers in mmo's with a minimum age of 22 or something like that. A lot of kids are extremely impatient ( GOOOGO GOGOGO!!!!! ) and they throw hissy fits constantly. That stuff ruins the game for me completely. The past few years I've been playing solo in pretty much all MMO's because I just can't be around all the negativity of the 16 year old elitists who geargrind and crunch numbers like pimply little loot crazed meth addicts.
I'm not sure it comes down to growing up either. I'm as mature as I'd ever care to be, but I still enjoy playing games. If I had less spare time and a more normal lifestyle (wife, kids, all of that) I probably wouldn't care much about the mmo genre going down the drain, but I'm a gamer and a bum. I have too much spare time not to care.
Hopelessly messy post. Just did a 12 hour borderlands push, so tired.. zzzzzZZzZzz.
Uh only thing majorly different in today is just the graphics. Beyond that it's still the same old mind numbing grinding. You want to chat then chat with people. No one elses fault but your own if you can't walk up to someone and simply say hello. Don't like how MMO's are simply don't play them. It's not rocket science.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Uh only thing majorly different in today is just the graphics. Beyond that it's still the same old mind numbing grinding. You want to chat then chat with people. No one elses fault but your own if you can't walk up to someone and simply say hello. Don't like how MMO's are simply don't play them. It's not rocket science.
Um, that is not true by a long shot... well, the first two sentences are off - the rest is right; but the first two sentences are off by a long shot.
Even the games that are still around now from before have been dumbed down. It is not just that new games are crap, but developers have been working hard to make the old games crap too.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
There is no lost love. Nothing has changed. Go back and play them. Just kill, grind kill grind. There was no WOW, EQ2 blah blah so what we played was NEW. You've just played it way to many times.
As for " Buy a Harley".. whats that mean? A picture of something again thats not real. Copying something from something you saw, trying to be THAT picture so to speak. Just be yourself. Take each day like it comes.. NEW and Thank GOD for it.
Actually it has changed. Like basically what the above poster said, they went back and made the old games craptacular. People cried that they were too hard, too complicated, so they dumbed them down in spite of what their existing long-term subscribers wanted. Basically made them fail. Vets do want innovation and change, certainly, but for the better, not to something else and which deducts from our IQ. When people say we want the same old thing, it's just slander they squaking, we always pushed for innovetion from the developers, but not to change the games into something else.
anyways like most of u guys ive played if not all most of the games since UO release.(not t2a crap) I found it the old games brought more community than the new ones, because enemy or not you actually get to interact/learn from other players.
todays games (post Wow) became a clone, cept for GW. its just quest to get items and lvls / rinse /repeat. my 3 year old niece can actually do this. because ur just standing toe to toe with the monsters, its all the same there is really no penalty in dying, if u actually die.
I just really wanna point out that most game now aday is too carebeared. I call it the disneyland experience (esp when i uninstall). Because in disneyland you get the oooh and the ahhh from the rides, you get to see nice views, you get to interact with no one but ur family or who ever u were there with and when u do it 5 days in a row you get bored of it. A lion is not gonna jump out of no where and bite your head off or Mickey isnt gonna all of a sudden grabs a chain saw and chops your head off. Do u guys remember lockjaw when everyone just hit lvl 20? or the PK at the dungeon near Yew in UO or the damn Pesky butterfly near that tower in AC? they add on ur chance of dying. I think that adds fun to the game, an element of surprise. what does this do to community? it makes it stronger because now you get to rely on complete stranger for information.. LOCKJAW TRAIN To South zone!! remember that? or some random dude warning you about PKs? Even in DAOC there was still stuff like that going on, but now adays you can solo, u can die and who gives a crap ull just respawn anyways. I know why designers stays away from that.. coz people hates dying.. people hate = less subs.
Over all yes Community is definately lacking. but i also do agree we old vets have to learn the new style of play because i doubt the games are gonna get harder.
No, it's not over for most MMO vets, it's only over for those MMO vets who refuse to move on.
You hit the nail right on the head.
I've been playing MMOs since the beginning and I certainly have moved on. Times change and you either change with them or go find another hobby.
Besides, the evolution of MMOs in the past 10 years is neither good or bad, just different. Adjust.
Ah I see. So you see nothing wrong with your condecending posts telling people to go bugger off or change their tastes to "get with the times"?
Many people who were interested in MMORPGs haven't "evolved", they've left. I've seen little to no advancement in the last 6 years of MMORPGs. Probably the biggest innovation was public quests, and that's pathetic. Everything else has been getting simpler and simpler and simpler. That's not evolution by any stretch of the definition. In fact that's the opposite of evolution.
How would you like it if someone took your favorite genre/hobby, totally changed it, and when you expressed that you were upset, everyone laughed at you and said "man, get with the times or find something else to do".
Some of you really need to stop being so selfish and closed minded.
I totally agree with the OP. My expereinces have been in WoW, War, AoC, Lotro, EQ2; so I am unable to comment on others.
Strength of community has declined in recent years although the causes aren't clear to me. Maybe it's soloable max-leveling, or maybe it's the endless grindfest for our own uber-gear. Whatever the reason I remember when noobs were encouraged and mentored, while now they are derided and exploited (an over-generalization I know but a noticeable trend).
MMOs are not as "nice" as they once were.
What's killed (or at least seriously injured) the social element of the game is the reduction of down time. Think about it Everquest 1 the game oftn heralded as the holy grail of soical interaction in games had massive amounts of downtime. You win a fight you had about 5 min downtime recovering, you kill a mob and needed to wait for respawn you had 5, 10 or even more minutes of downtime. During all of these you talked to your party, to your guild and to the server in general.
Now ? Now there is little or no downtime you do not have time to talk. If your talking your not button mashing which means your not being productive with your time. Of course you may be on vent, team speak etc. But even then your cmmunication is lmited to the few people on your particular team speak linkup. Your not really meshed into the social aspect.
Seriously if you want to bring the social back into the mmorpgs you need to bring back the downtime.
anyways like most of u guys ive played if not all most of the games since UO release.(not t2a crap) I found it the old games brought more community than the new ones, because enemy or not you actually get to interact/learn from other players.
todays games (post Wow) became a clone, cept for GW. its just quest to get items and lvls / rinse /repeat. my 3 year old niece can actually do this. because ur just standing toe to toe with the monsters, its all the same there is really no penalty in dying, if u actually die.
I just really wanna point out that most game now aday is too carebeared. I call it the disneyland experience (esp when i uninstall). Because in disneyland you get the oooh and the ahhh from the rides, you get to see nice views, you get to interact with no one but ur family or who ever u were there with and when u do it 5 days in a row you get bored of it. A lion is not gonna jump out of no where and bite your head off or Mickey isnt gonna all of a sudden grabs a chain saw and chops your head off. Do u guys remember lockjaw when everyone just hit lvl 20? or the PK at the dungeon near Yew in UO or the damn Pesky butterfly near that tower in AC? they add on ur chance of dying. I think that adds fun to the game, an element of surprise. what does this do to community? it makes it stronger because now you get to rely on complete stranger for information.. LOCKJAW TRAIN To South zone!! remember that? or some random dude warning you about PKs? Even in DAOC there was still stuff like that going on, but now adays you can solo, u can die and who gives a crap ull just respawn anyways. I know why designers stays away from that.. coz people hates dying.. people hate = less subs.
Over all yes Community is definately lacking. but i also do agree we old vets have to learn the new style of play because i doubt the games are gonna get harder.
To an extent, it fits very well into the themepark vs. sandbox discussion - quite literally.
Think back to when we used to play in sandboxes. We would be lumped in with a bunch of different kids, where we would generally get along. If somebody was being an asshat, some parental unit would come along and lay the smackdown on them. Peace would return. We would use our creativity, play, build things together, and have fun. We would look forward to returning the next day.
Think back to when we used to go to themeparks. Sure, we might have fun on some of the rides (after waiting in long lines); but there would be kids running around and screaming, cursing, acting up, and where were the parental units? They were trying to ignore the kids, tired from having to put up with them on the ride there. There would be littering, cutting in line, pushing, shoving, high prices, and even as we might be having fun on some rides - we would eventually get tired and want to go home.
So yeah, there is a vast difference in the communities... and I still find it funny how folks throw around the terms sandbox and themepark without thinking about things like this.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
I took a last leap * bought Age of Conan* which is as good as any other MMO on the market* and am bored after 3 days. Log in, kill computer generated AI rinse, repeat, and do the same thing over and over and over to what achieve max level, reroll and repeat the mind numbing format of modern day MMORPGS.
Step 1. Kill mobs
Step 2. Level
Step 3. Kill more mobs
Step 4. Realize we've all been mindlessly doing it for HOW many years for me its over 12 years but no longer.
Yes, I think its over.
It seems complex games are not profitable to stay afloat. Well except EVE. But thats not everyones cup of tea.
My only hope is Guildwars2.
I think its subscriptionless format may bring the change of perspective MMOs really need right now.
No, it's not over for most MMO vets, it's only over for those MMO vets who refuse to move on.
You hit the nail right on the head.
I've been playing MMOs since the beginning and I certainly have moved on. Times change and you either change with them or go find another hobby.
Besides, the evolution of MMOs in the past 10 years is neither good or bad, just different. Adjust.
Ah I see. So you see nothing wrong with your condecending posts telling people to go bugger off or change their tastes to "get with the times"?
Many people who were interested in MMORPGs haven't "evolved", they've left. I've seen little to no advancement in the last 6 years of MMORPGs. Probably the biggest innovation was public quests, and that's pathetic. Everything else has been getting simpler and simpler and simpler. That's not evolution by any stretch of the definition. In fact that's the opposite of evolution.
How would you like it if someone took your favorite genre/hobby, totally changed it, and when you expressed that you were upset, everyone laughed at you and said "man, get with the times or find something else to do".
Some of you really need to stop being so selfish and closed minded.
What needs to stop is the emo-drama-rage crap.
Are you even reading the posts or are you just reacting to certain words that catch your eye? If you are reading them, then my guess is that the shift in the MMO industry is the least of your concerns. Try focusing more on your reading comprehension skills.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -Winston Churchill
No, it's not over for most MMO vets, it's only over for those MMO vets who refuse to move on.
You hit the nail right on the head.
I've been playing MMOs since the beginning and I certainly have moved on. Times change and you either change with them or go find another hobby.
Besides, the evolution of MMOs in the past 10 years is neither good or bad, just different. Adjust.
Ah I see. So you see nothing wrong with your condecending posts telling people to go bugger off or change their tastes to "get with the times"?
Many people who were interested in MMORPGs haven't "evolved", they've left. I've seen little to no advancement in the last 6 years of MMORPGs. Probably the biggest innovation was public quests, and that's pathetic. Everything else has been getting simpler and simpler and simpler. That's not evolution by any stretch of the definition. In fact that's the opposite of evolution.
How would you like it if someone took your favorite genre/hobby, totally changed it, and when you expressed that you were upset, everyone laughed at you and said "man, get with the times or find something else to do".
Some of you really need to stop being so selfish and closed minded.
What needs to stop is the emo-drama-rage crap.
Are you even reading the posts or are you just reacting to certain words that catch your eye? If you are reading them, then my guess is that the shift in the MMO industry is the least of your concerns. Try focusing more on your reading comprehension skills.
Might want to take your own advice there bud.
Not only did your post completely ignore mine, and not refute anything, but you also proved my point. Thanks.
I too know people who have now left MMO gaming, or they put in only a fraction of the time they used to. When MMO’s lose old players what is happening? Some would say we are more jaded, need to move on and so on. But these people are not giving up gaming, they are only giving up on MMO’s.
So what is it about MMO’s that has long term players giving up on them; when they still play FPS, adventure games or whatever else they are into? A combination of very repetitive game play, few new good ideas and the drift to letting marketing considerations determine game play are the key factors. With that albatross around your neck it is small wonder so many of my old MMO mates have left for greener pastures.
No, it's not over for most MMO vets, it's only over for those MMO vets who refuse to move on.
You hit the nail right on the head.
I've been playing MMOs since the beginning and I certainly have moved on. Times change and you either change with them or go find another hobby.
Besides, the evolution of MMOs in the past 10 years is neither good or bad, just different. Adjust.
Ah I see. So you see nothing wrong with your condecending posts telling people to go bugger off or change their tastes to "get with the times"?
Many people who were interested in MMORPGs haven't "evolved", they've left. I've seen little to no advancement in the last 6 years of MMORPGs. Probably the biggest innovation was public quests, and that's pathetic. Everything else has been getting simpler and simpler and simpler. That's not evolution by any stretch of the definition. In fact that's the opposite of evolution.
How would you like it if someone took your favorite genre/hobby, totally changed it, and when you expressed that you were upset, everyone laughed at you and said "man, get with the times or find something else to do".
Some of you really need to stop being so selfish and closed minded.
What needs to stop is the emo-drama-rage crap.
Are you even reading the posts or are you just reacting to certain words that catch your eye? If you are reading them, then my guess is that the shift in the MMO industry is the least of your concerns. Try focusing more on your reading comprehension skills.
Might want to take your own advice there bud.
Not only did your post completely ignore mine, and not refute anything, but you also proved my point. Thanks.
What is there to refute? Your response is solely based on your personal bias of what you read instead of what was actually said. There is NO point is discussing anything with you, Its obvious you're just here to argue for the sake of arguing. That is what we call a lose-lose situation and I have better things to do with my time, like pick lint out from between my toes.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -Winston Churchill
To the OP, nothing is over for MMO Vets. I started MMOs even before EQ, and I only see more and more options for the kind of MMOs someone might enjoy, and more features then ever thought possible. The only thing that has gotten worse every year is the whining. Of course there will be more bad now with the good, but go play something else if you don't like it. That's not a personal attack like saying "bugger off". That's common sense that I live by, as well as suggest to everyone else. It's not your favorite genre anymore, big deal. Movies and board games aren't the same as 20 years ago either. Move on.
Comments
Agreed. It is about change. Unfortunately, I think age has a lot to do with it. But not in the way you might expect.
When I was younger, I always thought that older people were the ones who were rigid, didn't like change, etc. Now that I'm in my 50's, I see the exact opposite. In my day-to-day dealings with people, it always seems like the 20-25 year old crowd are the ones who go into a tail-spin at even the hint of change. In my work I see it also. It's almost always the younger workers who freak out when things change unexpectedly and they create a whole bunch of drama around it.
The guy I do most of my work for even notices it. In fact, he's stopped hiring people right of out college altogether. If he doesn't see 10 years of experience on a resume, it goes into the trash. He says its easier to cope with missing a few good hires than to deal with the mindset of the younger workers.
I remember GenX, I remember GenY, but when the hell did we get Gen Emo? It's all about rage and drama. Unreal.
Believe me, it's not just in the gaming community.
QFT. Totally see this type of behavior in the work place with the younger generation.
A couple of days ago, a couple of the folks that I have gamed with since HLDM (played SWG and WoW with), were kind of shaking their heads at what I was saying on our forums over there - cause they have basically given up on the current MMORPGs. They wonder if SW:TOR will renew their interests in the MMORPG genre.
For some of us, it is not about the community - we all hang out in various forums and the rest - it comes down to whether we will go to a game (we will bring our own community with us)... and there just are no games out there now that we can agree on to be bothered with as a group.
They look back on preNGE/CU SWG with fondness. They even look back on Vanilla WoW with fondness. Speaking of which, in an odd sense - BC and WotLK were there own forms of NGE if you think about it. One of the guys had tried to get them interested in returning for Cata, but most of them had not even upgraded to WotLK...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Big Business ruined MMO's once WoWs profit caught it's attention.
Now everyone is just looking to cash in. No longer is it about innovative persistent worlds. Funny thing, is the next MMO to have WoW sales numbers really NEEDS to be the true "Next Gen" MMO, NOT ANOTHER WoW wannabe!
Devs are fools for not realizing the fact; IF PEOPLE WANT A WOW TYPE MMO, THEY WILL PLAY WOW!
To the OP, I am a SWG vet from the start (among other MMOs after the NGE holocaust), and agree, but I am having a blast in AoC with my brother (also SWG vet from launch). AoC is the only MMO that don't feel like a kids game (Besides EVE). I love how AoC sticks to the old Conan books. It isn't perfect, but it's the best MMO out atm.
It was never about innovative persistent worlds. It has ALWAYS been about money. That's life, deal with it.
"realize that gaming is just like life, and if you arguement is that life is what you make of it, why not gaming?"
Because you don't buy life from a company selling it.
We in NO WAY should just accept half a$$ed games made with no innovation, just for some greedy company to profit. Not even close to living lifes changes. You don't just accept all life changes, well I don't. I don't accept something changing for the WORSE. I do my best to change for the better, thus accepting change for the BETTER.
If MMOs changed for THE BETTER I would be all for change. We CAN CHOOSE THIS BY SPEAKING WITH OUR WALLETS.
Don't support garbage, and companies will step up their game or fail.
There is no lost love. Nothing has changed. Go back and play them. Just kill, grind kill grind. There was no WOW, EQ2 blah blah so what we played was NEW. You've just played it way to many times.
As for " Buy a Harley".. whats that mean? A picture of something again thats not real. Copying something from something you saw, trying to be THAT picture so to speak. Just be yourself. Take each day like it comes.. NEW and Thank GOD for it.
As soon as Diablo 3 gets here I'll be caring less about mmos and will probably play mor eon the console than the pc. MMOs are becoming too much about the hype and cash shops now which isn't how most people envisioned how mmos would wind up. The developers themselves are ruining the mmo genre with their greed and lack of creativity. Looks like I'll be sticking to online rpgs, rts and fps games from now on if this continues.
I really hate to suggest this and really hate to rain on your parade, but what are the odds that Diablo 3 will have downloadable content?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
A shoe easily put on the other foot. Why are you afraid of change? You are stuck on what is, and afraid of what could be, like to hell with innovation. It’s like from the beginning “OMG WTF these games suck, they need to change and be like Diablo and we will in no way co-exist with you“. I mean you want to talk about (like what the other guy brought up) Emo attitude?!? “OMG someone likes something different than what I like *throws a tizzy fit and QQ’s*”
Really, why are so many people afraid, petrified, of other games existing that they may not care for?? So you don’t like sandbox slow-progression non-instanced massively co-op social games. GET OVER IT! Damn, follow everyone else jumping off a cliff lately?
I have no problem with change, I have a problem with people making everything the same. That’s not change, that’s stupidity and ignorance. The change that has come is no change at all, but stale CRPG game play (along with it‘s non-mmo players), by way of instances and a bunch of other goofy assed systems that take away the mmo aspect of the games. I don’t give a rats ass if you have your games like that, but slamming others for what they like and have played for years and they wanting to innovate upon is just childish and selfish behavior. Not fully aimed at you, there is enough to go around.
So go ahead and cry your eyeballs out because someone does no like what you like, thinks your games are for simpletons, because that is the real world. And that world will eventually chew you up and spit you out in time as you set yourself up for it.
I'd really like to see a reality check go on around here and other forums regarding such topics. You only hurt yourself first as it stands. Innovation is in no way a narrow road, and should not be. Diversity is not an ebil word.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
You play for the wrong reasons. MMOs never where that challenging.
.
You play to hang out with guildies and friends.
Wrong. You play MMOs for the exact same reason you play non MMOs. You like playing video games.
If you want to be social go outside.
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People keep talking about adapting to the way stuff changes and whatnot, and I guess that's somewhat an issue, but the fact is that we're not adapting to improvements, we are more or less having to put up with games becoming worse. Much like pop music has gone downhill from the start, so too has the mmo genre.
If adapting to change means i have to listen to play the Lady Gaga of mmo's... I guess that's it for me..
I am looking forward to Guild Wars 2, though. The more I read about it, the more promising it actually seems. The fact that they are putting an effort into exploration is something I very much appreciate.
I'd also like to say that I'm very familiar with how the thread starter feels. The poeple I've played MMO's with in the past are basically like me at this point, just can't be bothered. I actually do blame it partly on the fact that the genre went from being a quirky game for people who had their own credit cards (above the age of 18, for the most part) to what it is now, a genre that rewards elitist kids and douchebags. Back in the day when a party got wiped, most people had a chuckle and we went back in. These days, the first thing you see when someone gets nuked by a boss is some guy blaming everyone around him cause he's terrified of being blamed himself. OMG NOOBS!!! .... The whole attitude towards everything has changed. The purple loot that lies at the end of the dungeon crawl is all that matters, and when a party wipes.. That means the loot, most likely, will not get looted.. And people throw a hissy fit..
Said it before and I'll say it again.. Create geezer servers in mmo's with a minimum age of 22 or something like that. A lot of kids are extremely impatient ( GOOOGO GOGOGO!!!!! ) and they throw hissy fits constantly. That stuff ruins the game for me completely. The past few years I've been playing solo in pretty much all MMO's because I just can't be around all the negativity of the 16 year old elitists who geargrind and crunch numbers like pimply little loot crazed meth addicts.
I'm not sure it comes down to growing up either. I'm as mature as I'd ever care to be, but I still enjoy playing games. If I had less spare time and a more normal lifestyle (wife, kids, all of that) I probably wouldn't care much about the mmo genre going down the drain, but I'm a gamer and a bum. I have too much spare time not to care.
Hopelessly messy post. Just did a 12 hour borderlands push, so tired.. zzzzzZZzZzz.
Uh only thing majorly different in today is just the graphics. Beyond that it's still the same old mind numbing grinding. You want to chat then chat with people. No one elses fault but your own if you can't walk up to someone and simply say hello. Don't like how MMO's are simply don't play them. It's not rocket science.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Um, that is not true by a long shot... well, the first two sentences are off - the rest is right; but the first two sentences are off by a long shot.
Even the games that are still around now from before have been dumbed down. It is not just that new games are crap, but developers have been working hard to make the old games crap too.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Actually it has changed. Like basically what the above poster said, they went back and made the old games craptacular. People cried that they were too hard, too complicated, so they dumbed them down in spite of what their existing long-term subscribers wanted. Basically made them fail. Vets do want innovation and change, certainly, but for the better, not to something else and which deducts from our IQ. When people say we want the same old thing, it's just slander they squaking, we always pushed for innovetion from the developers, but not to change the games into something else.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
first post in a long time.
anyways like most of u guys ive played if not all most of the games since UO release.(not t2a crap) I found it the old games brought more community than the new ones, because enemy or not you actually get to interact/learn from other players.
todays games (post Wow) became a clone, cept for GW. its just quest to get items and lvls / rinse /repeat. my 3 year old niece can actually do this. because ur just standing toe to toe with the monsters, its all the same there is really no penalty in dying, if u actually die.
I just really wanna point out that most game now aday is too carebeared. I call it the disneyland experience (esp when i uninstall). Because in disneyland you get the oooh and the ahhh from the rides, you get to see nice views, you get to interact with no one but ur family or who ever u were there with and when u do it 5 days in a row you get bored of it. A lion is not gonna jump out of no where and bite your head off or Mickey isnt gonna all of a sudden grabs a chain saw and chops your head off. Do u guys remember lockjaw when everyone just hit lvl 20? or the PK at the dungeon near Yew in UO or the damn Pesky butterfly near that tower in AC? they add on ur chance of dying. I think that adds fun to the game, an element of surprise. what does this do to community? it makes it stronger because now you get to rely on complete stranger for information.. LOCKJAW TRAIN To South zone!! remember that? or some random dude warning you about PKs? Even in DAOC there was still stuff like that going on, but now adays you can solo, u can die and who gives a crap ull just respawn anyways. I know why designers stays away from that.. coz people hates dying.. people hate = less subs.
Over all yes Community is definately lacking. but i also do agree we old vets have to learn the new style of play because i doubt the games are gonna get harder.
You just got Bootyknocked
Ah I see. So you see nothing wrong with your condecending posts telling people to go bugger off or change their tastes to "get with the times"?
Many people who were interested in MMORPGs haven't "evolved", they've left. I've seen little to no advancement in the last 6 years of MMORPGs. Probably the biggest innovation was public quests, and that's pathetic. Everything else has been getting simpler and simpler and simpler. That's not evolution by any stretch of the definition. In fact that's the opposite of evolution.
How would you like it if someone took your favorite genre/hobby, totally changed it, and when you expressed that you were upset, everyone laughed at you and said "man, get with the times or find something else to do".
Some of you really need to stop being so selfish and closed minded.
What's killed (or at least seriously injured) the social element of the game is the reduction of down time. Think about it Everquest 1 the game oftn heralded as the holy grail of soical interaction in games had massive amounts of downtime. You win a fight you had about 5 min downtime recovering, you kill a mob and needed to wait for respawn you had 5, 10 or even more minutes of downtime. During all of these you talked to your party, to your guild and to the server in general.
Now ? Now there is little or no downtime you do not have time to talk. If your talking your not button mashing which means your not being productive with your time. Of course you may be on vent, team speak etc. But even then your cmmunication is lmited to the few people on your particular team speak linkup. Your not really meshed into the social aspect.
Seriously if you want to bring the social back into the mmorpgs you need to bring back the downtime.
just my 2 cents
Gadareth
To an extent, it fits very well into the themepark vs. sandbox discussion - quite literally.
Think back to when we used to play in sandboxes. We would be lumped in with a bunch of different kids, where we would generally get along. If somebody was being an asshat, some parental unit would come along and lay the smackdown on them. Peace would return. We would use our creativity, play, build things together, and have fun. We would look forward to returning the next day.
Think back to when we used to go to themeparks. Sure, we might have fun on some of the rides (after waiting in long lines); but there would be kids running around and screaming, cursing, acting up, and where were the parental units? They were trying to ignore the kids, tired from having to put up with them on the ride there. There would be littering, cutting in line, pushing, shoving, high prices, and even as we might be having fun on some rides - we would eventually get tired and want to go home.
So yeah, there is a vast difference in the communities... and I still find it funny how folks throw around the terms sandbox and themepark without thinking about things like this.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Yes, I think its over.
It seems complex games are not profitable to stay afloat. Well except EVE. But thats not everyones cup of tea.
My only hope is Guildwars2.
I think its subscriptionless format may bring the change of perspective MMOs really need right now.
What needs to stop is the emo-drama-rage crap.
Are you even reading the posts or are you just reacting to certain words that catch your eye? If you are reading them, then my guess is that the shift in the MMO industry is the least of your concerns. Try focusing more on your reading comprehension skills.
Might want to take your own advice there bud.
Not only did your post completely ignore mine, and not refute anything, but you also proved my point. Thanks.
I too know people who have now left MMO gaming, or they put in only a fraction of the time they used to. When MMO’s lose old players what is happening? Some would say we are more jaded, need to move on and so on. But these people are not giving up gaming, they are only giving up on MMO’s.
So what is it about MMO’s that has long term players giving up on them; when they still play FPS, adventure games or whatever else they are into? A combination of very repetitive game play, few new good ideas and the drift to letting marketing considerations determine game play are the key factors. With that albatross around your neck it is small wonder so many of my old MMO mates have left for greener pastures.
What is there to refute? Your response is solely based on your personal bias of what you read instead of what was actually said. There is NO point is discussing anything with you, Its obvious you're just here to argue for the sake of arguing. That is what we call a lose-lose situation and I have better things to do with my time, like pick lint out from between my toes.
QFT and amen to that.
To the OP, nothing is over for MMO Vets. I started MMOs even before EQ, and I only see more and more options for the kind of MMOs someone might enjoy, and more features then ever thought possible. The only thing that has gotten worse every year is the whining. Of course there will be more bad now with the good, but go play something else if you don't like it. That's not a personal attack like saying "bugger off". That's common sense that I live by, as well as suggest to everyone else. It's not your favorite genre anymore, big deal. Movies and board games aren't the same as 20 years ago either. Move on.