Originally posted by Lazarus71 Originally posted by Cephus404 No, it's not over for most MMO vets, it's only over for those MMO vets who refuse to move on. Most of us who started playing long, long ago no longer want the same thing out of games that we wanted back then, most of us have grown up, most of us no longer have the time or interest in sitting around in a time-wasting game, pretending it's somehow challenging. We grew up and a lot of vets are actually enjoying MMOs today.
Couldn't have said it better my self.
High-five!
"If all you can say is... "It's awful, it's not innovative, it's ugly, it's blah.." Then you're an unimaginative and unpolished excuse for human life" -eburn
Cute.. Your picture doesn't really correlate to your condescending jingle.
Again, its not about growing up, just cause the market turned to make games appease to the consumers ideals of instant gratification, doens't mean the market has matured,
Pic works fine, it represents the "vet" gamers that think they grew up at some point, but didn't, or were stunted. I never said it matured, actually I see it as the opposite if you followed my position. It's dumbed down childish stuff compared to early releases that were for adults and challenging on many levels. Wasn't attacking your post, unless you are taking a different stance now.
Dumbed down how? All it took in EQ1 was a repeated killing of the same mob 1000s of times. I was there (like many vets). How is that challenging?
EQ1 was the original "Pay to Win" game. People were complaining that it took no skill to level even when it first came out. And they were right.
So it took no skill in the old games. How do you dumb it down when the original games didn't need skill? Because instead of needing to show you had no skill 50 times instead of 1000? Proving you could put up with being bored longer? Okay. Perhaps what you meant by challenging. Proving you could stick with being bored. I am rather happy i only have to do that for 30 minutes at a time rather than a couple of hours.
I have been playing MMOs since the beginning also and this is exactly what I think every time I here the dumbed down and simplified comments about todays games. More user friendly interfaces and more streamlined gameplay do not equal dumbed down. Some people just can't see past the nostalgic feeling they have about thier first MMO gameing experiences.
It's not simply that games in general have been dumbed down compared to earlier ones, but also that certain modern games have been dumbed down progressively since they were launched. EQ2 is a classic example, and WoW another. I was surprised in WoW, for example, to find when I rolled an alt yesterday that some early mobs that had aggroed when I last started a character no longer aggroed, so there was no tactic involved in picking them off one at a time, or picking up baskets in their midst.
One area in which it is fair to say that all modern MMO's have been dumbed down compared to eg early EQ is, of course, the death penalty. Dying in a MMO now means nothing at all, unless it's a travel tactic, whereas veteran EQ players will recall plenty of hair-raising moments trying to retrieve laden corpses from the middle of Nektulos Forest or the depths of some dungeon! That was part of what gave EQ its atmosphere and I do miss that. Did it involve a challenge? No, not in comparison to brain surgery or capping a leaking oil well thousands of feet below the ocean surface, but in gaming terms it represented more of a challenge than any modern MMO gives today.
Probably the most amusing thing about this thread and some others that crop up from time to time is the incessant need for some to insult the other side. It simply isn't enough to make your point and state your reasons why. No, we have to make sure to insult those that don't agree with us simply because they see things from a different point of view.
Person A: "Don't like the current crop of games out there? Well, that's just because you're a kid. Maybe when you grow up and get out of mommy and daddy's basement you'll understand."
Person B: "Oh, think it's because I haven't grown up up yet do you? Well, I guess if I was as dumb as you then I would probably enjoy these games too Excuse me if I remember a time that these games used to take strategic skills and tested the very limits of one's mental prowess. You poopyhead you."
I know it's nothing new but still cracks me up. Just felt like sharing. Blame it on being bored at work if you must.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Until game developers are no longer hardcore players dedicated to a particular MMOG model, it is pretty much over for those who can no longer enjoy what has essentially been the same game ever since Everquest came out. In the end, it doesn't matter if it has hyper-realistic graphics, boobs, wings, F2P, cut scenes and voice acting - it's still the same thing, only dressed up and paid for differently.
Unfortunately, those who usually end up as MMOG developers are ... hardcore gamers who think that if they offer a better packaged pig, people will drop their old pig and buy the new pig.
Agreed, but the whole EQ thing is on it's last breath now. You can just do the same thing so many times.
But I blame more the publishing houses than the devs. People like EA rarely tries something new, they consider it too risky.
There will always be some hardcore games and some casual, and the casual games will have more players as long as most people are forced to work 8 hours or so for their money and sleep almost that much.
MMOs will change in the next few years and if you only like EQ and don't want to try something different you will still have to play EQ.
But not all upcoming games will be casual, I doubt that CCPs World of darkness online will be casual to mention one. It won't be another EQ game with levels, raids and the rest of the usual stuff either.
I been playing games since the C-64, the games are not same as they were then and we are never going back to that either. In the same way will todays game change and I doubt we see a new EQ close to the original in the future. We just have to move forward or stop gaming. But the future holds surprises and new ideas also.
It's not simply that games in general have been dumbed down compared to earlier ones, but also that certain modern games have been dumbed down progressively since they were launched. EQ2 is a classic example, and WoW another. I was surprised in WoW, for example, to find when I rolled an alt yesterday that some early mobs that had aggroed when I last started a character no longer aggroed, so there was no tactic involved in picking them off one at a time, or picking up baskets in their midst.
One area in which it is fair to say that all modern MMO's have been dumbed down compared to eg early EQ is, of course, the death penalty. Dying in a MMO now means nothing at all, unless it's a travel tactic, whereas veteran EQ players will recall plenty of hair-raising moments trying to retrieve laden corpses from the middle of Nektulos Forest or the depths of some dungeon! That was part of what gave EQ its atmosphere and I do miss that. Did it involve a challenge? No, not in comparison to brain surgery or capping a leaking oil well thousands of feet below the ocean surface, but in gaming terms it represented more of a challenge than any modern MMO gives today.
I have very fond memories of those exact situations in EQ. I just don't use those memories as an excuse to insult or question the intelligence of those who enjoy todays MMOs ( referring to others in the thread, not you) as some people do.
MMOs will change in the next few years and if you only like EQ and don't want to try something different you will still have to play EQ.
But not all upcoming games will be casual, I doubt that CCPs World of darkness online will be casual to mention one. It won't be another EQ game with levels, raids and the rest of the usual stuff either.
I been playing games since the C-64, the games are not same as they were then and we are never going back to that either. In the same way will todays game change and I doubt we see a new EQ close to the original in the future. We just have to move forward or stop gaming. But the future holds surprises and new ideas also.
I don't know. I can see the genre making a full circle and going back to its roots eventually. They may not have the negative aspects attatched to them any longer, but there is definitely something missing from today's MMOs that would not be that difficult to recapture.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
As soon as Diablo 3 gets here I'll be caring less about mmos and will probably play mor eon the console than the pc. MMOs are becoming too much about the hype and cash shops now which isn't how most people envisioned how mmos would wind up. The developers themselves are ruining the mmo genre with their greed and lack of creativity. Looks like I'll be sticking to online rpgs, rts and fps games from now on if this continues.
I really hate to suggest this and really hate to rain on your parade, but what are the odds that Diablo 3 will have downloadable content?
Not so sure on the dlc but they will have several expansions and Diablo has always had a ton of replayability. I played the franchise for a long time so I'm not worried about gettinbg bored with it either.
When someone says they played the older games, I believe them. When they say they like the new games too, I believe them. Because you can like both, although they are different.
But when someone says the older games weren't more challenging, I stop believing them. Because I know from that statement that they either didn't play the older games, or they didn't play very long, very well or very much.
It would be like someone saying they played American college football, but there really wasn't much physical contact. That tells me they either never played, were a kicker, or they rode the bench. You just can't credibly make such a statement. Anyone with passing familiarity with the sport knows better.
So while people claiming to be "vets" who dismiss the challenges posed by older games may draw high fives from people who never played those games and who prefer a less challenging mmo, in the eyes of we who actually are vets - we know you are not what you claim to be.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
When someone says they played the older games, I believe them. When they say they like the new games too, I believe them. Because you can like both, although they are different.
But when someone says the older games weren't more challenging, I stop believing them. Because I know from that statement that they either didn't play the older games, or they didn't play very long, very well or very much.
It would be like someone saying they played American college football, but there really wasn't much physical contact. That tells me they either never played, were a kicker, or they rode the bench. You just can't credibly make such a statement. Anyone with passing familiarity with the sport knows better.
So while people claiming to be "vets" who dismiss the challenges posed by older games may draw high fives from people who never played those games and who prefer a less challnging mmo, in the eyes of we who actually are vets - we know you are not what you claim to be.
I doubt most are questioning the challenge statement far as the implicatation that "older games" took more patience, time, perseverance, etc.
I think where they mainly start to balk is when people start bringing in the level of intelligence or gameplay skill into question. That is where some question the validity of saying things were more challenging in the "old days". I think they have a point in saying it too.
Especially when you consider most use it to simply try and insult people newer to the genre or ones that enjoy both the older and newer games.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
When someone says they played the older games, I believe them. When they say they like the new games too, I believe them. Because you can like both, although they are different.
But when someone says the older games weren't more challenging, I stop believing them. Because I know from that statement that they either didn't play the older games, or they didn't play very long, very well or very much.
It would be like someone saying they played American college football, but there really wasn't much physical contact. That tells me they either never played, were a kicker, or they rode the bench. You just can't credibly make such a statement. Anyone with passing familiarity with the sport knows better.
So while people claiming to be "vets" who dismiss the challenges posed by older games may draw high fives from people who never played those games and who prefer a less challnging mmo, in the eyes of we who actually are vets - we know you are not what you claim to be.
I doubt most are questioning the challenge statement far as the implicatation that "older games" took more patience, time, perseverance, etc.
I think where they mainly start to balk is when people start bringing in the level of intelligence or gameplay skill into question. That is where some question the validity of saying things were more challenging in the "old days". I think they have a point in saying it too.
Especially when you consider most use it to simply try and insult people newer to the genre or ones that enjoy both the older and newer games.
That's pretty easy to say when one of the major challenges in the older games, social interaction, has been all but taken out of todays MMORPGs. Reputation and loyalty don't mean dick today.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Right, and of course the point of all those old mmo's wasnt to kill monsters and pick flowers in the world, they were so advanced and different I'm sure.
And when newer mmo's actually try to add content into their experience, even if it is (sadly) still thinly spread, that's something we should step away from, because it is better just to *imagine* the fun you're going to have and the content you're doing rather than the developers attempting to put fun into the actual game.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
That's pretty easy to say when one of the major challenges in the older games, social interaction, has been all but taken out of todays MMORPGs. Reputation and loyalty don't mean dick today.
No doubt about that. I never really saw that as a challenge though. I simply acted in these games as I do in real life so really wasn't much to it far as that goes.
There is no denying how much the community has changed over the years and certainly not for the better least in my opinion.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Lets look at an examples. Acherons Call was not my first game (EQ1 beta test was) but it holds a special place. Acherons Call had a great spell system and skill system. I loved the fact you had to make some hard choices about what you wanted to be good at, but the great thing was you could pick and choose skills. I want to be a life mage but wanted to lay some smack down with a sword, yea i could do that. If i wanted to do nothing but sling some spells, yea i can do that. The challenge and beauty of this was fantastic.
That's pretty easy to say when one of the major challenges in the older games, social interaction, has been all but taken out of todays MMORPGs. Reputation and loyalty don't mean dick today.
No doubt about that. I never really saw that as a challenge though. I simply acted in these games as I do in real life so really wasn't much to it far as that goes.
There is no denying how much the community has changed over the years and certainly not for the better least in my opinion.
Socializing itself wasn't a challenge, but finding a group could be. And depending on other people is very challenging for some. For some, being patient and tolerant of new or less experienced/skilled players was challenging. Today you can simply ignore them. Or just judge them by their gear/stats.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
When someone says they played the older games, I believe them. When they say they like the new games too, I believe them. Because you can like both, although they are different.
But when someone says the older games weren't more challenging, I stop believing them. Because I know from that statement that they either didn't play the older games, or they didn't play very long, very well or very much.
It would be like someone saying they played American college football, but there really wasn't much physical contact. That tells me they either never played, were a kicker, or they rode the bench. You just can't credibly make such a statement. Anyone with passing familiarity with the sport knows better.
So while people claiming to be "vets" who dismiss the challenges posed by older games may draw high fives from people who never played those games and who prefer a less challenging mmo, in the eyes of we who actually are vets - we know you are not what you claim to be.
I find it amusing that you think you can make assumptions about someones past MMO experiences based on the fact that they don't have the same thoughts as you about the level challenge of past games compared to current games. I can only assume I am one fo the people you are talking about as I made similiar statements to what you mentioned. My point is challenge is relative to each individual. I have played since the UO days and EQ days and find the games then no more challenging than todays games. I just find them different from eachother in the challenges they offer, which can be a good or bad thing based soley on personal opinion.
Socializing itself wasn't a challenge, but finding a group could be. And depending on other people is very challenging for some. For some, being patient and tolerant of new or less experienced/skilled players was challenging. Today you can simply ignore them. Or just judge them by their gear/stats.
Eh, I don't know. Seemed a lot easier back then to find groups than it is now when you need one. Seemed to me due to how group oriented those games were that it was a hell of a lot easier in those days to find people to group with than it is now. I mean from the reliance people needed to buffs or heals from each other to mob killing to even watching each other's back in case something happened while you were travelling around it just seemed so much more helpful and friendly community wise in those days.
If anything, seems more difficult now really considering how unfriendly many seem towards each other and downright selfish at times. Not that I'm trying to say this as a positive for things now a days. Quite the opposite really.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
When someone says they played the older games, I believe them. When they say they like the new games too, I believe them. Because you can like both, although they are different.
But when someone says the older games weren't more challenging, I stop believing them. Because I know from that statement that they either didn't play the older games, or they didn't play very long, very well or very much.
It would be like someone saying they played American college football, but there really wasn't much physical contact. That tells me they either never played, were a kicker, or they rode the bench. You just can't credibly make such a statement. Anyone with passing familiarity with the sport knows better.
So while people claiming to be "vets" who dismiss the challenges posed by older games may draw high fives from people who never played those games and who prefer a less challenging mmo, in the eyes of we who actually are vets - we know you are not what you claim to be.
I find it amusing that you think you can make assumptions about someones past MMO experiences based on the fact that they don't have the same thoughts as you about the level challenge of past games compared to current games. I can only assume I am one fo the people you are talking about as I made similiar statements to what you mentioned. My point is challenge is relative to each individual. I have played since the UO days and EQ days and find the games then no more challenging than todays games. I just find them different from eachother in the challenges they offer, which can be a good or bad thing based soley on personal opinion.
That actually makes a lot of sense. I find it way more challenging putting up with the vast number of A-holes in todays games than I ever did finding a group in EQ.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Socializing itself wasn't a challenge, but finding a group could be. And depending on other people is very challenging for some. For some, being patient and tolerant of new or less experienced/skilled players was challenging. Today you can simply ignore them. Or just judge them by their gear/stats.
Eh, I don't know. Seemed a lot easier back then to find groups than it is now when you need one. Seemed to me due to how group oriented those games were that it was a hell of a lot easier in those days to find people to group with than it is now. I mean from the reliance people needed to buffs or heals from each other to mob killing to even watching each other's back in case something happened while you were travelling around it just seemed so much more helpful and freindly community wise in those days.
If anything, seems more difficult now really conisdering how unfriendly many seem towards each other and downright selfish at times. Not that I'm trying to say this as a positive for things now a days. Quite the opposite really.
I agree with you. My main point was that players do not even really need to be in groups for the majority of content these days. Good or bad, is anyone's opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
When someone says they played the older games, I believe them. When they say they like the new games too, I believe them. Because you can like both, although they are different.
But when someone says the older games weren't more challenging, I stop believing them. Because I know from that statement that they either didn't play the older games, or they didn't play very long, very well or very much.
It would be like someone saying they played American college football, but there really wasn't much physical contact. That tells me they either never played, were a kicker, or they rode the bench. You just can't credibly make such a statement. Anyone with passing familiarity with the sport knows better.
So while people claiming to be "vets" who dismiss the challenges posed by older games may draw high fives from people who never played those games and who prefer a less challenging mmo, in the eyes of we who actually are vets - we know you are not what you claim to be.
I find it amusing that you think you can make assumptions about someones past MMO experiences based on the fact that they don't have the same thoughts as you about the level challenge of past games compared to current games. I can only assume I am one fo the people you are talking about as I made similiar statements to what you mentioned. My point is challenge is relative to each individual. I have played since the UO days and EQ days and find the games then no more challenging than todays games. I just find them different from eachother in the challenges they offer, which can be a good or bad thing based soley on personal opinion.
That actually makes a lot of sense. I find it way more challenging putting up with the vast number of A-holes in todays games than I ever did finding a group in EQ.
That's definately one of the challenges of todays MMOs lol, not gonna disagree with you on that one.
My point is challenge is relative to each individual.
Respectfully, it isn't. For example, Chess is a more challenging game than Chutes and Ladders. That's not an opinion. It's not open to sweeping claims of relativism. It's a fact. And anyone who simply likes Chutes and Ladders so much that they start claiming it's as complex and challenging a game as any other is just deluding themselves.
Likewise, someone can't take a game with 100 ez-mode features that are an enemy to thought and claim that a game that features them is as challenging as a game without them. The game may still be fun. They may enjoy it. It may take less time. But ignoring its greater simplicity is not intellectually honest, and reflects only the smallest experience with older games, if any.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Originally posted by Cephus404 No, it's not over for most MMO vets, it's only over for those MMO vets who refuse to move on. Most of us who started playing long, long ago no longer want the same thing out of games that we wanted back then, most of us have grown up, most of us no longer have the time or interest in sitting around in a time-wasting game, pretending it's somehow challenging. We grew up and a lot of vets are actually enjoying MMOs today.
Out of the 20 or so people that i know irl that used to be avid MMO players. NONE OF US play any longer. The games we did like were ruined and the new breed of MMO is about as challenging as picking your nose.
My point is challenge is relative to each individual.
Respectfully, it isn't. For example, Chess is a more challenging game than Chutes and Ladders. That's not an opinion. It's not open to sweeping claims of relativism. It's a fact. And anyone who simply likes Chutes and Ladders so much that they start claiming it's as complex and challenging a game as any other is just deluding themselves.
Likewise, someone can't take a game with 100 ez-mode features that are an enemy to thought and claim that a game that features them is as challenging as a game without them. The game may still be fun. They may enjoy it. It may take less time. But ignoring its greater simplicity is not intellectually honest, and reflects only the smallest experience with older games, if any.
No one is delusional enought to think chess is more challenging than chutes and ladders including my self lol. As I already stated I am just saying I find the challenges of each MMO different from one another which can be a good or bad thing based soley on persoanl tastes and opinions.
As to your last statement which to me is once again questioning my experience as an MMO gamer (if it's not, sorry) I am realy at a loss why you feel the need to bring that into the discussion once again. I feel no need to lie about my MMO experience to back up my opinions. If you feel I am being untrue well that's your issue not mine.
No, it's not over for most MMO vets, it's only over for those MMO vets who refuse to move on. Most of us who started playing long, long ago no longer want the same thing out of games that we wanted back then, most of us have grown up, most of us no longer have the time or interest in sitting around in a time-wasting game, pretending it's somehow challenging.
We grew up and a lot of vets are actually enjoying MMOs today.
Out of the 20 or so people that i know irl that used to be avid MMO players. NONE OF US play any longer. The games we did like were ruined and the new breed of MMO is about as challenging as picking your nose.
Any of you be able to kill the Lich King on 25 hard mode? or any ICC bosses for that matter.
It is intellectually dishonest to ignore challenging content created for the hardcore group and only rant about the easier content shared by most of the players.
Comments
High-five!
"If all you can say is... "It's awful, it's not innovative, it's ugly, it's blah.." Then you're an unimaginative and unpolished excuse for human life" -eburn
I have been playing MMOs since the beginning also and this is exactly what I think every time I here the dumbed down and simplified comments about todays games. More user friendly interfaces and more streamlined gameplay do not equal dumbed down. Some people just can't see past the nostalgic feeling they have about thier first MMO gameing experiences.
No signature, I don't have a pen
It's not simply that games in general have been dumbed down compared to earlier ones, but also that certain modern games have been dumbed down progressively since they were launched. EQ2 is a classic example, and WoW another. I was surprised in WoW, for example, to find when I rolled an alt yesterday that some early mobs that had aggroed when I last started a character no longer aggroed, so there was no tactic involved in picking them off one at a time, or picking up baskets in their midst.
One area in which it is fair to say that all modern MMO's have been dumbed down compared to eg early EQ is, of course, the death penalty. Dying in a MMO now means nothing at all, unless it's a travel tactic, whereas veteran EQ players will recall plenty of hair-raising moments trying to retrieve laden corpses from the middle of Nektulos Forest or the depths of some dungeon! That was part of what gave EQ its atmosphere and I do miss that. Did it involve a challenge? No, not in comparison to brain surgery or capping a leaking oil well thousands of feet below the ocean surface, but in gaming terms it represented more of a challenge than any modern MMO gives today.
Probably the most amusing thing about this thread and some others that crop up from time to time is the incessant need for some to insult the other side. It simply isn't enough to make your point and state your reasons why. No, we have to make sure to insult those that don't agree with us simply because they see things from a different point of view.
Person A: "Don't like the current crop of games out there? Well, that's just because you're a kid. Maybe when you grow up and get out of mommy and daddy's basement you'll understand."
Person B: "Oh, think it's because I haven't grown up up yet do you? Well, I guess if I was as dumb as you then I would probably enjoy these games too Excuse me if I remember a time that these games used to take strategic skills and tested the very limits of one's mental prowess. You poopyhead you."
I know it's nothing new but still cracks me up. Just felt like sharing. Blame it on being bored at work if you must.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Agreed, but the whole EQ thing is on it's last breath now. You can just do the same thing so many times.
But I blame more the publishing houses than the devs. People like EA rarely tries something new, they consider it too risky.
There will always be some hardcore games and some casual, and the casual games will have more players as long as most people are forced to work 8 hours or so for their money and sleep almost that much.
MMOs will change in the next few years and if you only like EQ and don't want to try something different you will still have to play EQ.
But not all upcoming games will be casual, I doubt that CCPs World of darkness online will be casual to mention one. It won't be another EQ game with levels, raids and the rest of the usual stuff either.
I been playing games since the C-64, the games are not same as they were then and we are never going back to that either. In the same way will todays game change and I doubt we see a new EQ close to the original in the future. We just have to move forward or stop gaming. But the future holds surprises and new ideas also.
I have very fond memories of those exact situations in EQ. I just don't use those memories as an excuse to insult or question the intelligence of those who enjoy todays MMOs ( referring to others in the thread, not you) as some people do.
No signature, I don't have a pen
I don't know. I can see the genre making a full circle and going back to its roots eventually. They may not have the negative aspects attatched to them any longer, but there is definitely something missing from today's MMOs that would not be that difficult to recapture.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Not so sure on the dlc but they will have several expansions and Diablo has always had a ton of replayability. I played the franchise for a long time so I'm not worried about gettinbg bored with it either.
When someone says they played the older games, I believe them. When they say they like the new games too, I believe them. Because you can like both, although they are different.
But when someone says the older games weren't more challenging, I stop believing them. Because I know from that statement that they either didn't play the older games, or they didn't play very long, very well or very much.
It would be like someone saying they played American college football, but there really wasn't much physical contact. That tells me they either never played, were a kicker, or they rode the bench. You just can't credibly make such a statement. Anyone with passing familiarity with the sport knows better.
So while people claiming to be "vets" who dismiss the challenges posed by older games may draw high fives from people who never played those games and who prefer a less challenging mmo, in the eyes of we who actually are vets - we know you are not what you claim to be.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I doubt most are questioning the challenge statement far as the implicatation that "older games" took more patience, time, perseverance, etc.
I think where they mainly start to balk is when people start bringing in the level of intelligence or gameplay skill into question. That is where some question the validity of saying things were more challenging in the "old days". I think they have a point in saying it too.
Especially when you consider most use it to simply try and insult people newer to the genre or ones that enjoy both the older and newer games.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
That's pretty easy to say when one of the major challenges in the older games, social interaction, has been all but taken out of todays MMORPGs. Reputation and loyalty don't mean dick today.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Right, and of course the point of all those old mmo's wasnt to kill monsters and pick flowers in the world, they were so advanced and different I'm sure.
And when newer mmo's actually try to add content into their experience, even if it is (sadly) still thinly spread, that's something we should step away from, because it is better just to *imagine* the fun you're going to have and the content you're doing rather than the developers attempting to put fun into the actual game.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
No doubt about that. I never really saw that as a challenge though. I simply acted in these games as I do in real life so really wasn't much to it far as that goes.
There is no denying how much the community has changed over the years and certainly not for the better least in my opinion.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Lets look at an examples. Acherons Call was not my first game (EQ1 beta test was) but it holds a special place. Acherons Call had a great spell system and skill system. I loved the fact you had to make some hard choices about what you wanted to be good at, but the great thing was you could pick and choose skills. I want to be a life mage but wanted to lay some smack down with a sword, yea i could do that. If i wanted to do nothing but sling some spells, yea i can do that. The challenge and beauty of this was fantastic.
Socializing itself wasn't a challenge, but finding a group could be. And depending on other people is very challenging for some. For some, being patient and tolerant of new or less experienced/skilled players was challenging. Today you can simply ignore them. Or just judge them by their gear/stats.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I find it amusing that you think you can make assumptions about someones past MMO experiences based on the fact that they don't have the same thoughts as you about the level challenge of past games compared to current games. I can only assume I am one fo the people you are talking about as I made similiar statements to what you mentioned. My point is challenge is relative to each individual. I have played since the UO days and EQ days and find the games then no more challenging than todays games. I just find them different from eachother in the challenges they offer, which can be a good or bad thing based soley on personal opinion.
No signature, I don't have a pen
Eh, I don't know. Seemed a lot easier back then to find groups than it is now when you need one. Seemed to me due to how group oriented those games were that it was a hell of a lot easier in those days to find people to group with than it is now. I mean from the reliance people needed to buffs or heals from each other to mob killing to even watching each other's back in case something happened while you were travelling around it just seemed so much more helpful and friendly community wise in those days.
If anything, seems more difficult now really considering how unfriendly many seem towards each other and downright selfish at times. Not that I'm trying to say this as a positive for things now a days. Quite the opposite really.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
That actually makes a lot of sense. I find it way more challenging putting up with the vast number of A-holes in todays games than I ever did finding a group in EQ.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I agree with you. My main point was that players do not even really need to be in groups for the majority of content these days. Good or bad, is anyone's opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
That's definately one of the challenges of todays MMOs lol, not gonna disagree with you on that one.
No signature, I don't have a pen
Respectfully, it isn't. For example, Chess is a more challenging game than Chutes and Ladders. That's not an opinion. It's not open to sweeping claims of relativism. It's a fact. And anyone who simply likes Chutes and Ladders so much that they start claiming it's as complex and challenging a game as any other is just deluding themselves.
Likewise, someone can't take a game with 100 ez-mode features that are an enemy to thought and claim that a game that features them is as challenging as a game without them. The game may still be fun. They may enjoy it. It may take less time. But ignoring its greater simplicity is not intellectually honest, and reflects only the smallest experience with older games, if any.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Out of the 20 or so people that i know irl that used to be avid MMO players. NONE OF US play any longer. The games we did like were ruined and the new breed of MMO is about as challenging as picking your nose.
Make a difference!
No one is delusional enought to think chess is more challenging than chutes and ladders including my self lol. As I already stated I am just saying I find the challenges of each MMO different from one another which can be a good or bad thing based soley on persoanl tastes and opinions.
As to your last statement which to me is once again questioning my experience as an MMO gamer (if it's not, sorry) I am realy at a loss why you feel the need to bring that into the discussion once again. I feel no need to lie about my MMO experience to back up my opinions. If you feel I am being untrue well that's your issue not mine.
No signature, I don't have a pen
Im putting all my chips on Final Fantasy 14...if that mmorpg is a complete fail then im probably done with mmorpgs for a long while
Any of you be able to kill the Lich King on 25 hard mode? or any ICC bosses for that matter.
It is intellectually dishonest to ignore challenging content created for the hardcore group and only rant about the easier content shared by most of the players.