Exploring dungeons i have already been to? Give me a break. No one wants to trek to SFK again, again and again.
Actually, I miss the old "adventure" dungeons like SFK and Deadmines. Instances nowadays are "kill boss, move to next room, kill boss, move to next room..." in a boring "lather, rinse, repeat" fashion. Dungeons have become far too linear compared to the old stuff.
It is not hard. It is BORING.
Can you honestly say anything is "hard" anymore? Besides for heroic ICC, all the dungeons are yawnfests. But then, with the next instances/raids coming soon, ICC will also become "boring". Welcome to the cycle of WoW dungeons.
Everyone LOVES the instance teleport features, except may be YOU.
No, the only people who LOVE the instance teleport features are the people who are too lazy to travel there. Although time consuming, I liked traveling to SFK/SM on my alliance toons and coming across random horde along the way. Sure, it was irritating if I got killed, but that was part of the challenge. It's lazy people like you who just want to sit around Dalaran until a queue pops that has contributed to the death of world PvP. Perhaps you should stop thinking that you speak for EVERYONE, eh?
The entire game has become a joke compared to what it used to. Blizzard has taken too much time into catering to the lazy that it has killed the fun times to be had in the world. Nowadays players just want to rewarded for sitting around Dalaran and hitting a button to run an instance without having to put forth any effort.
I'd love to take these people, throw them on a vanilla server and watch them bitch and whine when they have to actually EARN their dungeon access. I can hear the crying now about the UBRS key and the Onyxia chain....
But what if you played on a PvE server? You speak from only one perspective (the pvp server perspective) when there are more players playing on PvE servers.
I like that I can actually get groups in BC dungeons within 15-20 minutes of queing up and 5-10 minutes for LK dungeons. I've always hated the quest grind in WoW so being able to level by running dungeons over and over is a blessing for me.
Although I like the dungeon finder, the general community of WoW is still a huge turn-off for me. A friend and I made about seven runs last night thru the first three BC dungeons. We had a DPS DK need and win the tank cloak in one instance. We had several instances of tanks leaving group after the first boss because their plate gear didn't drop. We were able to keep a group together long enough to run the blood furnace twice, which was quite enjoyable.
The LFD feature is a very useful tool IMO. I just wish they would implement something that would flag players who continuously leave dungeons before completion.
Then they came up with this incredibly asinine Dungeon Finder. Wait, it's too hard to actually go to the instance now? No more exploring? Why do I need mounts anymore I can just poof to Dungeon A anytime. Are their sub numbers so bad that servers are barren wastelands where people had to scrounge for a group? Odd, they claim they still have 11.5 million subs, are they all on 1 server or something?
Exploring dungeons i have already been to? Give me a break. No one wants to trek to SFK again, again and again. It is not hard. It is BORING. Everyone LOVES the instance teleport features, except may be YOU.
And if you haven't noticed, LOWER level dungeon groups are harder to find.
And even if I can find a group, using DF beats shouting in trade and PMing. It is MUCH easier and let us get to the fun parts.
Ever notice how GW doesn't seem like a very big world to play in? That's due to the fact you can insta-port everywhere. The trek to SFK was only "hard" if you were alliance, as it was supposed to be. Just like how Horde would have difficulty getting to Westfall to take down VC.
This is why WoW needs new classes. Lower level ranges would repopulate, some would make the new class (or classes) and some would dust off alts they shelved. That way, lower level instances would see some activity.
Get to the fun parts. So just skip everything else? Why bother to even level why not just make it so you make a pre-made level 80 and can immediately jump into any instance you want to right from the start? Seriously, if people actually think it's difficult to level up in WoW go play EQ1 and then come talk to me. WoW is full Easy Mode, Blizz is just making it Absurdly Easy Mode now.
No, because it's not a feature that fits with a virtual world MMORPG.
I don't pay 15 dollars a month to maintain a server just to play an arcade game. If I wanted to play Diablo, I could, and its free.
An MMORPG should be a living breathing virtual world that encourages socializing. Not popping into a random dungeon with anonymous people you'll never talk to or play with ever again. Not to mention it destroys the feel of the game world.
Then they came up with this incredibly asinine Dungeon Finder. Wait, it's too hard to actually go to the instance now? No more exploring? Why do I need mounts anymore I can just poof to Dungeon A anytime. Are their sub numbers so bad that servers are barren wastelands where people had to scrounge for a group? Odd, they claim they still have 11.5 million subs, are they all on 1 server or something?
Exploring dungeons i have already been to? Give me a break. No one wants to trek to SFK again, again and again. It is not hard. It is BORING. Everyone LOVES the instance teleport features, except may be YOU.
And if you haven't noticed, LOWER level dungeon groups are harder to find.
And even if I can find a group, using DF beats shouting in trade and PMing. It is MUCH easier and let us get to the fun parts.
Ever notice how GW doesn't seem like a very big world to play in? That's due to the fact you can insta-port everywhere. The trek to SFK was only "hard" if you were alliance, as it was supposed to be. Just like how Horde would have difficulty getting to Westfall to take down VC.
This is why WoW needs new classes. Lower level ranges would repopulate, some would make the new class (or classes) and some would dust off alts they shelved. That way, lower level instances would see some activity.
Get to the fun parts. So just skip everything else? Why bother to even level why not just make it so you make a pre-made level 80 and can immediately jump into any instance you want to right from the start? Seriously, if people actually think it's difficult to level up in WoW go play EQ1 and then come talk to me. WoW is full Easy Mode, Blizz is just making it Absurdly Easy Mode now.
NO one says the trek to SFK is difficult. It is BORING. That is the point. If you don't find it boring, you still have the option to walk there. The world is still out there.
We bother to level because that is the fun part too. And you don't get to decide what is fun for us. We do. Leveling is fun for many. Walking 20 min on a route that i have travelled 10 times is not. Now i have the option of not to. Woohoo.
And why bring up the issue of difficulty? DF & walking is NEVER about difficulty. It is about skipping boring (to many) part of the game.
No, because it's not a feature that fits with a virtual world MMORPG.
I don't pay 15 dollars a month to maintain a server just to play an arcade game. If I wanted to play Diablo, I could, and its free.
An MMORPG should be a living breathing virtual world that encourages socializing. Not popping into a random dungeon with anonymous people you'll never talk to or play with ever again. Not to mention it destroys the feel of the game world.
And you should decide what feature should fit for all of us?
I pay $15 a month to play WOW and I am happy to use DF to find groups and teleport to dungeons, so do millions.
And WOW *is* popping into a dungeon with anonymous people. Don't like it, don't play. Millions like it. Sue us.
So far, the dungeon finder is a double edged sword for me..
- it allows me to get groups for about any instance, relatively quickly
- it allows me to level by running instances, when i get bored of doing quests
- it allows me to gear up, and not have to worry about going an entire instance without getting a single piece of gear..
however...
- it makes me play with random people who aren't even from my server, who half the time are douchebags, or ninja loot.
- I notice that everyone is doing nothing but running instances, over and over.. instead getting out in the world.
I think a few adjustments to the Dungeon finder should be made..
- I still think you should have to travel to the dungeons in order to be able to run them. Or at least require some sort of attunement to be able to use the dungeon finder to run them.
You've hit the nail on the head. While I can see the obvious benefits that you outlined and understand why some people just love them, I feel the negative impacts to the social aspects of MMO's (yes, some of them forced) outweigh the positives.
I'd really hate to see a newly released game include such a mechanic, not quite as bad for a mature game like WOW where rushing through to end game is the norm.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I enjoy the DF because it allows fast grouping for dungeons, which were always my favorite part of the game, but I could never get groups for them because nobody wanted to take 30 minutes to try to get a group together that may fail. There's no need to worry about this anymore because of the cross-server grouping.
Honestly I don't understand why people are angry that the world is barren. In my opinion, and obviously in the opinions of the majority of people playing the game, the dungeon content is MUCH more fun than other means of leveling. Honestly, I have much more fun running series of dungeons (which, once you get to around level 30 and above, there's normally at least 5 dungeons to run at any time) than I ever had before DF running quests which required me to kill 30 wolves/raptors/whatever. It makes complete sense that the world is now empty because the world-leveling content sucks in comparison to dungeon running.
There is a chance of running into ninjas/idiots in the DF (and I would say it happened to me around 5% of the time when I played when it first came out), but it's just something that you have to deal with by either sucking it up or kicking them out of the group, and either way I would very much prefer to level in the social group semi-challenge environment that dungeons provide than level half-asleep running repetitive world-quests.
No, because it's not a feature that fits with a virtual world MMORPG.
I don't pay 15 dollars a month to maintain a server just to play an arcade game. If I wanted to play Diablo, I could, and its free.
An MMORPG should be a living breathing virtual world that encourages socializing. Not popping into a random dungeon with anonymous people you'll never talk to or play with ever again. Not to mention it destroys the feel of the game world.
So in other words you're saying that when you did PuG's pre-DF you socialized with those people after the instance was over? If true, that's great but you're probably in the minority because most PuG's don't work like that. Usually everyone hearthed out and disbanded and you never heard from those people again.
To the people who are killing DF because it kills the 'social' aspect of the game, did any of you play the game pre-DF to understand what the reality of the game was then?
Above poster is correct, going to SFK if you were ally wasn't hard, it was boring and tedious.
I liked the idea of it. And I liked using it. But then I discovered that it was actually leading me to be more anti social, and all but eliminating the need for me to be in a guild. The more I used it, the less time I actually spent in game. I dunno, for me, it was that one step too far in making the game casual friendly. And I'm a casual gamer.
Love the feature, a great improvement to quality of life, removing the useless time sink parts of doing dungeons.
Only down side is it was an afterthought so it has no basis in lore.
Dungeon finder is like trading in "Immersion" Emblems for "Convenience" Emblems. I can think of no clearer analogy.
Then convenience wins everytime. Immersion is pretty useless when i have to spend 20 min running to for the 1000th time.
How does one find WoW's universe immersive anyway? It's a giant cartoon.
That said, I like the dungeon finder but it has some obvious problems. For one, it's far too easy fo easy for players to enter a dungeon with players they'll never have any ability to see again and ninja loot items or make general nuissances of themselves, but I'm not sure anything can be done about that. Given WoW's instance-run endgame, it's a Godsend for this particular game, and the positives outweight the negatives in my oppinion.
Perhaps Blizzard could add some sort of a dungeon rep system similar to the game, where players can see how many times a group member has abandoned a dungeon and perhaps some information on loot rolls to prevent ninja looting. There just needs to be restrictions added to prevent people taking advantage of the dungeon finder being cross-server.
f you're re-running the same "instanced" dungeon that many times, that has to be pretty meaningless too.
For gameplay systems in WoW, DF is an improvement, for, let's say, gameplay systems in EVE it has no point.
You can argue personal preference, but it's hard to argue DFs lack of value. You can call people who like it names, or use derogatory terms when describing them, but it still doesn't negate it's usefulness.
People claim it makes the open world feel empty and barren, but the open world felt empty and barren even before it, it felt like that every time majority of people got to max level. True test of that claim will come with Cata when we will be able to see exactly how much people love to roam the lands when the world feels fresh and quests are new still.
What you, and many others keep talking about requires a whole new paradigm shift, away from linear progression and static worlds. It would require tools to enpower player to never before experienced "levels" (I use the term levels loosely here).
For whatever WoW is, it's not that game, and it likely never will be, but what it is, it's great at it. Dungeon Finder just just helps it to be better at what it provides.
Which other 3 to 10 year old MMORPG game can claim that for ALL their 5 man dungeons (70 total) a group can be found in 15-20 minutes time?
If THAT is not innovative in an mmorpg, than NOTHING is.
-
More so, IF a group member has to leave (or disconnected) he/she is being replaced
--- GAMEPLAY matters ---
Also I - like many others - want to level in MANY different ways: worldmobs - quests - dungeons - battlegrounds - professions
Of all those 5, the BG's to me are the most fun to "level". But only a handful of people will level by one limited way.
GAMEPLAY choices.
And the economy and AH simply prove the world gathering is VERY MUCH played by a lot of people (or Blizzard wouldn't charge 3 dollars extra to play it on the I-pad/Iphone.)
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Love the feature, a great improvement to quality of life, removing the useless time sink parts of doing dungeons.
Only down side is it was an afterthought so it has no basis in lore.
Dungeon finder is like trading in "Immersion" Emblems for "Convenience" Emblems. I can think of no clearer analogy.
Then convenience wins everytime. Immersion is pretty useless when i have to spend 20 min running to for the 1000th time.
If you're re-running the same "instanced" dungeon that many times, that has to be pretty meaningless too.
I think the 'many times' aspect comes from running the same instance multiple times over a number of alts. For example, I've probably run Scarlet Monastary (as Alliance) close to 30 times across 5 different characters. Doing that run after the 5th time was just tedious. It wasn't meaningless at that point in time because it leveled that particular character as well as got him some decent loot. I'm all about immersion, but my time is valuable also and I'd rather spend it doing something meaningful in game instead of wasting 20 minutes to travel somewhere it the option is presented to me.
You know, there also such a thing as meeting stones in the game since day one (granted most people never used them) and no one cried out it that being immersion breaking.
I see Dungeon Finder as a alternate way to play the game. Why must there only be one specific way to level? What if I'm tired of completing the same exact quests I've been doing for the past 5 years?
Love the feature, a great improvement to quality of life, removing the useless time sink parts of doing dungeons.
Only down side is it was an afterthought so it has no basis in lore.
Dungeon finder is like trading in "Immersion" Emblems for "Convenience" Emblems. I can think of no clearer analogy.
Then convenience wins everytime. Immersion is pretty useless when i have to spend 20 min running to for the 1000th time.
If you're re-running the same "instanced" dungeon that many times, that has to be pretty meaningless too.
I think the 'many times' aspect comes from running the same instance multiple times over a number of alts. For example, I've probably run Scarlet Monastary (as Alliance) close to 30 times across 5 different characters. Doing that run after the 5th time was just tedious. It wasn't meaningless at that point in time because it leveled that particular character as well as got him some decent loot. I'm all about immersion, but my time is valuable also and I'd rather spend it doing something meaningful in game instead of wasting 20 minutes to travel somewhere it the option is presented to me.
You know, there also such a thing as meeting stones in the game since day one (granted most people never used them) and no one cried out it that being immersion breaking.
I see Dungeon Finder as a alternate way to play the game. Why must there only be one specific way to level? What if I'm tired of completing the same exact quests I've been doing for the past 5 years?
Meeting stones were enough, IMO. But Dungeon Finder has turned the game into DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online), basically a lobby game where folks camp out in Dalaran and spam the Dungeon Finder tool to re-run the same instances, sometimes multiple times in a day. Toss in cross-server grouping and the experience is really wearing down the community.
I hope in Cataclysm, they return to meeting stones. In fact, I will watch for something like this; I won't play Cataclysm if it still has Dungeon Finder in its cross-server mode, just no point because I can play DDO for free.
The economy and AH simply prove the world gathering is VERY MUCH played by a lot of people (or Blizzard wouldn't charge 3 dollars extra to play it on the I-pad/Iphone.)
Pencil kick something: how do YOU finance your raiding and game experience?
It only costs around 250 Gold each night to raid and an extra 500 Gold to put stones/enchantments in just 1 new piece of upgraded gear ...
You didn't answer it the first 52 times asked so 2 possibilities here:
By standing in a city ? So how much is the gold going on wowgold.com then ?
Or by doing questing and gatering mats ? and these are not found in your preferred "lobby" game.
There is that 3rd possibility (the obvious one): you are not even a WOW player anymore and just want to troll this thread (reported).
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Which other 3 to 10 year old MMORPG game can claim that for ALL their 5 man dungeons (70 total) a group can be found in 15-20 minutes time?
If THAT is not innovative in an mmorpg, than NOTHING is.
That's not innovative, that's handy.
Not my kind of thread, but just had to react. Before you know it people start being able to fly in a MMO call the epitome of innovation.
If things like that happen, I'm going to suspect that people have drowned their last remaining active braincells in a flood of alcohol (which those braincells will likely find a good death and a lucky escape)
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Which other 3 to 10 year old MMORPG game can claim that for ALL their 5 man dungeons (70 total) a group can be found in 15-20 minutes time?
If THAT is not innovative in an mmorpg, than NOTHING is.
That's not innovative, that's handy.
Not my kind of thread, but just had to react. Before you know it people start being able to fly in a MMO call the epitome of innovation.
If things like that happen, I'm going to suspect that people have drowned their last remaining active braincells in a flood of alcohol (which those braincells will likely find a good death and a lucky escape)
Let's see why those other MMo's aren that "handy" then and still use these kind of arguments to disdain everything Blizzard does these days.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Let's see why those other MMo's aren that "handy" then and still use these kind of arguments to disdain everything Blizzard does these days.
Heh, I know some people personify too closely with their games, but let me stress this: MMO's don't use arguments, they're games, not persons. I don't think we'll see a MMO bar where MMO's gather and hang out, drink a beer, checking out that cute sexy little MMO entering the bar, etc
As to why people use certain arguments to 'disdain everything Blizzard does', I'm guessing it's the same kind of motives as to why you resort to adulation regarding everything Blizzard does.
Plus of course it's the extreme and hyperbolic statements and posters of those that reinforce eachother and intensify the debate, as seen in all kinds of forums, also this one. It's often not the moderate viewpoints and sensible debates that draw attention, but the loony bins that draw other loony bins resulting in a loonapalooza (loonfest/loony galore/etc).
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Dungeon Finder will help in the long term makes new players better when they reach 80. After all before Dungeon Finder most peoples would level doing quests and never bother to do instances cause finding groups was such a pain. Now you get to 80 and you never been in instances. Now peoples will have tons of instance experience and at 80 this will help a lot.
Comments
the only downside is crossrealm, cause you get to group with ninjas that don't respect main spec, and need on tank stuff that I would have needed
ok i got frustrated today lol
But what if you played on a PvE server? You speak from only one perspective (the pvp server perspective) when there are more players playing on PvE servers.
I like that I can actually get groups in BC dungeons within 15-20 minutes of queing up and 5-10 minutes for LK dungeons. I've always hated the quest grind in WoW so being able to level by running dungeons over and over is a blessing for me.
Although I like the dungeon finder, the general community of WoW is still a huge turn-off for me. A friend and I made about seven runs last night thru the first three BC dungeons. We had a DPS DK need and win the tank cloak in one instance. We had several instances of tanks leaving group after the first boss because their plate gear didn't drop. We were able to keep a group together long enough to run the blood furnace twice, which was quite enjoyable.
The LFD feature is a very useful tool IMO. I just wish they would implement something that would flag players who continuously leave dungeons before completion.
Ever notice how GW doesn't seem like a very big world to play in? That's due to the fact you can insta-port everywhere. The trek to SFK was only "hard" if you were alliance, as it was supposed to be. Just like how Horde would have difficulty getting to Westfall to take down VC.
This is why WoW needs new classes. Lower level ranges would repopulate, some would make the new class (or classes) and some would dust off alts they shelved. That way, lower level instances would see some activity.
Get to the fun parts. So just skip everything else? Why bother to even level why not just make it so you make a pre-made level 80 and can immediately jump into any instance you want to right from the start? Seriously, if people actually think it's difficult to level up in WoW go play EQ1 and then come talk to me. WoW is full Easy Mode, Blizz is just making it Absurdly Easy Mode now.
No, because it's not a feature that fits with a virtual world MMORPG.
I don't pay 15 dollars a month to maintain a server just to play an arcade game. If I wanted to play Diablo, I could, and its free.
An MMORPG should be a living breathing virtual world that encourages socializing. Not popping into a random dungeon with anonymous people you'll never talk to or play with ever again. Not to mention it destroys the feel of the game world.
NO one says the trek to SFK is difficult. It is BORING. That is the point. If you don't find it boring, you still have the option to walk there. The world is still out there.
We bother to level because that is the fun part too. And you don't get to decide what is fun for us. We do. Leveling is fun for many. Walking 20 min on a route that i have travelled 10 times is not. Now i have the option of not to. Woohoo.
And why bring up the issue of difficulty? DF & walking is NEVER about difficulty. It is about skipping boring (to many) part of the game.
And you should decide what feature should fit for all of us?
I pay $15 a month to play WOW and I am happy to use DF to find groups and teleport to dungeons, so do millions.
And WOW *is* popping into a dungeon with anonymous people. Don't like it, don't play. Millions like it. Sue us.
You've hit the nail on the head. While I can see the obvious benefits that you outlined and understand why some people just love them, I feel the negative impacts to the social aspects of MMO's (yes, some of them forced) outweigh the positives.
I'd really hate to see a newly released game include such a mechanic, not quite as bad for a mature game like WOW where rushing through to end game is the norm.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I enjoy the DF because it allows fast grouping for dungeons, which were always my favorite part of the game, but I could never get groups for them because nobody wanted to take 30 minutes to try to get a group together that may fail. There's no need to worry about this anymore because of the cross-server grouping.
Honestly I don't understand why people are angry that the world is barren. In my opinion, and obviously in the opinions of the majority of people playing the game, the dungeon content is MUCH more fun than other means of leveling. Honestly, I have much more fun running series of dungeons (which, once you get to around level 30 and above, there's normally at least 5 dungeons to run at any time) than I ever had before DF running quests which required me to kill 30 wolves/raptors/whatever. It makes complete sense that the world is now empty because the world-leveling content sucks in comparison to dungeon running.
There is a chance of running into ninjas/idiots in the DF (and I would say it happened to me around 5% of the time when I played when it first came out), but it's just something that you have to deal with by either sucking it up or kicking them out of the group, and either way I would very much prefer to level in the social group semi-challenge environment that dungeons provide than level half-asleep running repetitive world-quests.
So in other words you're saying that when you did PuG's pre-DF you socialized with those people after the instance was over? If true, that's great but you're probably in the minority because most PuG's don't work like that. Usually everyone hearthed out and disbanded and you never heard from those people again.
To the people who are killing DF because it kills the 'social' aspect of the game, did any of you play the game pre-DF to understand what the reality of the game was then?
Above poster is correct, going to SFK if you were ally wasn't hard, it was boring and tedious.
Love the feature, a great improvement to quality of life, removing the useless time sink parts of doing dungeons.
Only down side is it was an afterthought so it has no basis in lore.
Dungeon finder is like trading in "Immersion" Emblems for "Convenience" Emblems. I can think of no clearer analogy.
Then convenience wins everytime. Immersion is pretty useless when i have to spend 20 min running to <insert dungeon name> for the 1000th time.
I liked the idea of it. And I liked using it. But then I discovered that it was actually leading me to be more anti social, and all but eliminating the need for me to be in a guild. The more I used it, the less time I actually spent in game. I dunno, for me, it was that one step too far in making the game casual friendly. And I'm a casual gamer.
How does one find WoW's universe immersive anyway? It's a giant cartoon.
That said, I like the dungeon finder but it has some obvious problems. For one, it's far too easy fo easy for players to enter a dungeon with players they'll never have any ability to see again and ninja loot items or make general nuissances of themselves, but I'm not sure anything can be done about that. Given WoW's instance-run endgame, it's a Godsend for this particular game, and the positives outweight the negatives in my oppinion.
Perhaps Blizzard could add some sort of a dungeon rep system similar to the game, where players can see how many times a group member has abandoned a dungeon and perhaps some information on loot rolls to prevent ninja looting. There just needs to be restrictions added to prevent people taking advantage of the dungeon finder being cross-server.
If you're re-running the same "instanced" dungeon that many times, that has to be pretty meaningless too.
For gameplay systems in WoW, DF is an improvement, for, let's say, gameplay systems in EVE it has no point.
You can argue personal preference, but it's hard to argue DFs lack of value. You can call people who like it names, or use derogatory terms when describing them, but it still doesn't negate it's usefulness.
People claim it makes the open world feel empty and barren, but the open world felt empty and barren even before it, it felt like that every time majority of people got to max level. True test of that claim will come with Cata when we will be able to see exactly how much people love to roam the lands when the world feels fresh and quests are new still.
What you, and many others keep talking about requires a whole new paradigm shift, away from linear progression and static worlds. It would require tools to enpower player to never before experienced "levels" (I use the term levels loosely here).
For whatever WoW is, it's not that game, and it likely never will be, but what it is, it's great at it. Dungeon Finder just just helps it to be better at what it provides.
Which other 3 to 10 year old MMORPG game can claim that for ALL their 5 man dungeons (70 total) a group can be found in 15-20 minutes time?
If THAT is not innovative in an mmorpg, than NOTHING is.
-
More so, IF a group member has to leave (or disconnected) he/she is being replaced
--- GAMEPLAY matters ---
Also I - like many others - want to level in MANY different ways: worldmobs - quests - dungeons - battlegrounds - professions
Of all those 5, the BG's to me are the most fun to "level". But only a handful of people will level by one limited way.
GAMEPLAY choices.
And the economy and AH simply prove the world gathering is VERY MUCH played by a lot of people (or Blizzard wouldn't charge 3 dollars extra to play it on the I-pad/Iphone.)
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
I think the 'many times' aspect comes from running the same instance multiple times over a number of alts. For example, I've probably run Scarlet Monastary (as Alliance) close to 30 times across 5 different characters. Doing that run after the 5th time was just tedious. It wasn't meaningless at that point in time because it leveled that particular character as well as got him some decent loot. I'm all about immersion, but my time is valuable also and I'd rather spend it doing something meaningful in game instead of wasting 20 minutes to travel somewhere it the option is presented to me.
You know, there also such a thing as meeting stones in the game since day one (granted most people never used them) and no one cried out it that being immersion breaking.
I see Dungeon Finder as a alternate way to play the game. Why must there only be one specific way to level? What if I'm tired of completing the same exact quests I've been doing for the past 5 years?
Meeting stones were enough, IMO. But Dungeon Finder has turned the game into DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online), basically a lobby game where folks camp out in Dalaran and spam the Dungeon Finder tool to re-run the same instances, sometimes multiple times in a day. Toss in cross-server grouping and the experience is really wearing down the community.
I hope in Cataclysm, they return to meeting stones. In fact, I will watch for something like this; I won't play Cataclysm if it still has Dungeon Finder in its cross-server mode, just no point because I can play DDO for free.
The economy and AH simply prove the world gathering is VERY MUCH played by a lot of people (or Blizzard wouldn't charge 3 dollars extra to play it on the I-pad/Iphone.)
Pencil kick something: how do YOU finance your raiding and game experience?
It only costs around 250 Gold each night to raid and an extra 500 Gold to put stones/enchantments in just 1 new piece of upgraded gear ...
You didn't answer it the first 52 times asked so 2 possibilities here:
By standing in a city ? So how much is the gold going on wowgold.com then ?
Or by doing questing and gatering mats ? and these are not found in your preferred "lobby" game.
There is that 3rd possibility (the obvious one): you are not even a WOW player anymore and just want to troll this thread (reported).
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
That's not innovative, that's handy.
Not my kind of thread, but just had to react. Before you know it people start being able to fly in a MMO call the epitome of innovation.
If things like that happen, I'm going to suspect that people have drowned their last remaining active braincells in a flood of alcohol (which those braincells will likely find a good death and a lucky escape)
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Let's see why those other MMo's aren that "handy" then and still use these kind of arguments to disdain everything Blizzard does these days.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Heh, I know some people personify too closely with their games, but let me stress this: MMO's don't use arguments, they're games, not persons. I don't think we'll see a MMO bar where MMO's gather and hang out, drink a beer, checking out that cute sexy little MMO entering the bar, etc
As to why people use certain arguments to 'disdain everything Blizzard does', I'm guessing it's the same kind of motives as to why you resort to adulation regarding everything Blizzard does.
Plus of course it's the extreme and hyperbolic statements and posters of those that reinforce eachother and intensify the debate, as seen in all kinds of forums, also this one. It's often not the moderate viewpoints and sensible debates that draw attention, but the loony bins that draw other loony bins resulting in a loonapalooza (loonfest/loony galore/etc).
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Dungeon Finder will help in the long term makes new players better when they reach 80. After all before Dungeon Finder most peoples would level doing quests and never bother to do instances cause finding groups was such a pain. Now you get to 80 and you never been in instances. Now peoples will have tons of instance experience and at 80 this will help a lot.