Dungeon Finder will help in the long term makes new players better when they reach 80. After all before Dungeon Finder most peoples would level doing quests and never bother to do instances cause finding groups was such a pain. Now you get to 80 and you never been in instances. Now peoples will have tons of instance experience and at 80 this will help a lot.
Yeah except for the fact majority of the WoW plays use gearscore and if your gearscore isn't up to what they consider good, you won't be able to do instances. It's very hard to do instances if your new because of this addon. To many people think high gearscore means your a better player.
No, i don't like it, at all. It's only good for people that want to rush straight to 80 or farm badges quickly all day. The fun parts of WoW for me were taken away: exploring and socializing. Nowadays u can get to 80 without leaving Org and 90% of the groups u get into just type "buffs" at the beginning of the instance and "gg" at the end. U see, assembling a group could be a hard task sometimes but it was well worth it, specially when u get to know ppl better.
Playing: Starcraft II. Played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Ultima Online, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft. Wanna play: Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, Final Fantasy XIV, Diablo III.
No, i don't like it, at all. It's only good for people that want to rush straight to 80 or farm badges quickly all day. The fun parts of WoW for me were taken away: exploring and socializing. Nowadays u can get to 80 without leaving Org and 90% of the groups u get into just type "buffs" at the beginning of the instance and "gg" at the end. U see, assembling a group could be a hard task sometimes but it was well worth it, specially when u get to know ppl better.
Same repeated answer to the same question:
How do you earn gold in the game to experience the gameplay ?
Not by standing in a city. And at level 80 it costs 250 Gold to raid and 500 Gold to equip stones/enchantments ... PER decent item.
The economy is driven by gathering mats and there is now even a complete new game part on the mobile platform for it.
And you just say the game is played in a dungeon. How much can one lie.
it is very clear you Sir can't play the game simply by standing in a city...(unless you all buy gold from wowgold.com) AND are willing to give up ALL other gaming options besides dungeons.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Love the feature, a great improvement to quality of life, removing the useless time sink parts of doing dungeons.
Only down side is it was an afterthought so it has no basis in lore.
Dungeon finder is like trading in "Immersion" Emblems for "Convenience" Emblems. I can think of no clearer analogy.
Then convenience wins everytime. Immersion is pretty useless when i have to spend 20 min running to for the 1000th time.
If you're re-running the same "instanced" dungeon that many times, that has to be pretty meaningless too.
Why? I can get different items? I can run with different toons. You know that playing a mage is totally different than playing a rogue, even fighting the same boss, right?
Plus, fighting is fun for me. Walkint the same route again and agani is not.
No, i don't like it, at all. It's only good for people that want to rush straight to 80 or farm badges quickly all day. The fun parts of WoW for me were taken away: exploring and socializing. Nowadays u can get to 80 without leaving Org and 90% of the groups u get into just type "buffs" at the beginning of the instance and "gg" at the end. U see, assembling a group could be a hard task sometimes but it was well worth it, specially when u get to know ppl better.
You logic fails. DF is an OPTION. Nothing is taken away. You can still explore the world if you want to. No one explores in a group anyway.
Dungeon Finder will help in the long term makes new players better when they reach 80. After all before Dungeon Finder most peoples would level doing quests and never bother to do instances cause finding groups was such a pain. Now you get to 80 and you never been in instances. Now peoples will have tons of instance experience and at 80 this will help a lot.
Yeah except for the fact majority of the WoW plays use gearscore and if your gearscore isn't up to what they consider good, you won't be able to do instances. It's very hard to do instances if your new because of this addon. To many people think high gearscore means your a better player.
it is not that hard.
Just run normal instances (plus crafting & buying stuff off AH) till u have teh gear score to do H
Just run H till you have the gear score to raid.
If you don't know how to do that .. they are RIGHT .. you are not a very good player.
No, i don't like it, at all. It's only good for people that want to rush straight to 80 or farm badges quickly all day. The fun parts of WoW for me were taken away: exploring and socializing. Nowadays u can get to 80 without leaving Org and 90% of the groups u get into just type "buffs" at the beginning of the instance and "gg" at the end. U see, assembling a group could be a hard task sometimes but it was well worth it, specially when u get to know ppl better.
Yeah great, I want to sit in Org for an 1 hour trying to get a group then have to log off as my time is up. I like to be able to use my time in the ebst possible way and the DF lets me do that. Some groups are bad (or have a bad member) but most have been very good. It's one of the best systems Blizzard has implemented so far.
It's pointless to debate this topic because most of the people who are against it spout off something like 'server community' with nothing to back that statement up with, as if WoW was the shining example of server communities before dungeon finder (hint: it wasnt'). As if people weren't sitting in Dalaran before Dungeon Finder trying to get groups in trade chat.
I bet most don't even play the game or haven't in a very long time.
It's pointless to debate this topic because most of the people who are against it spout off something like 'server community' with nothing to back that statement up with, as if WoW was the shining example of server communities before dungeon finder (hint: it wasnt'). As if people weren't sitting in Dalaran before Dungeon Finder trying to get groups in trade chat.
I bet most don't even play the game or haven't in a very long time.
LOL, I have played since vanilla, and met a lot of friends doing dungeons. Also knew who where good tanks, healers etc because I played with them before. And your right WoW is not a shining example of community, but dungeon finder is just making it worse.
Back my statement up: Im speaking from personal experience on a topic asking for opinions, and that is my "opinion" maybe read the OP's post before turning into a condescending tool ?
Love the feature, a great improvement to quality of life, removing the useless time sink parts of doing dungeons.
Only down side is it was an afterthought so it has no basis in lore.
Dungeon finder is like trading in "Immersion" Emblems for "Convenience" Emblems. I can think of no clearer analogy.
Then convenience wins everytime. Immersion is pretty useless when i have to spend 20 min running to for the 1000th time.
If you're re-running the same "instanced" dungeon that many times, that has to be pretty meaningless too.
I think the 'many times' aspect comes from running the same instance multiple times over a number of alts. For example, I've probably run Scarlet Monastary (as Alliance) close to 30 times across 5 different characters. Doing that run after the 5th time was just tedious. It wasn't meaningless at that point in time because it leveled that particular character as well as got him some decent loot. I'm all about immersion, but my time is valuable also and I'd rather spend it doing something meaningful in game instead of wasting 20 minutes to travel somewhere it the option is presented to me.
You know, there also such a thing as meeting stones in the game since day one (granted most people never used them) and no one cried out it that being immersion breaking.
I see Dungeon Finder as a alternate way to play the game. Why must there only be one specific way to level? What if I'm tired of completing the same exact quests I've been doing for the past 5 years?
Meeting stones were enough, IMO. But Dungeon Finder has turned the game into DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online), basically a lobby game where folks camp out in Dalaran and spam the Dungeon Finder tool to re-run the same instances, sometimes multiple times in a day. Toss in cross-server grouping and the experience is really wearing down the community.
I hope in Cataclysm, they return to meeting stones. In fact, I will watch for something like this; I won't play Cataclysm if it still has Dungeon Finder in its cross-server mode, just no point because I can play DDO for free.
Actually, I tend to do dailies while I'm waiting for the DF to pop. More gold is always useful, even after one has maxed out ones useful factions. I must say that if they drop or cripple the DF in Cat, I will be MUCH less likely to purchase it. The DF has made a BIG difference in being able to have access to the dungeons. If they cripple that, or take it away, it means that MANY people will no longer have that access. I really hope they aren't that foolish.
Its crap, it destroys the feeling of being part of a Server community, and makes the game feel less like a MMO and more like a lobby.
To each his own, but I HATE it.
Then by all means don't use it. But those that advocate its removal, or cripplining it so that the game fits their "vision" of How Things Should Be, are in a clear minority.
Its crap, it destroys the feeling of being part of a Server community, and makes the game feel less like a MMO and more like a lobby.
To each his own, but I HATE it.
Then by all means don't use it. But those that advocate its removal, or cripplining it so that the game fits their "vision" of How Things Should Be, are in a clear minority.
You are right, the minority can't expect a game to conform to what they wan't, so Ill be moving on to another MMO, curently have my eye on GW2, Tera and Rift, just hope this lobby crap doesn't spill over to them
Its crap, it destroys the feeling of being part of a Server community, and makes the game feel less like a MMO and more like a lobby.
To each his own, but I HATE it.
Then by all means don't use it. But those that advocate its removal, or cripplining it so that the game fits their "vision" of How Things Should Be, are in a clear minority.
You are right, the minority can't expect a game to conform to what they wan't, so Ill be moving on to another MMO, curently have my eye on GW2, Tera and Rift, just hope this lobby crap doesn't spill over to them
Sure. I don't think any of the 11M of us will miss you.
Its crap, it destroys the feeling of being part of a Server community, and makes the game feel less like a MMO and more like a lobby.
To each his own, but I HATE it.
Then by all means don't use it. But those that advocate its removal, or cripplining it so that the game fits their "vision" of How Things Should Be, are in a clear minority.
You are right, the minority can't expect a game to conform to what they wan't, so Ill be moving on to another MMO, curently have my eye on GW2, Tera and Rift, just hope this lobby crap doesn't spill over to them
Sure. I don't think any of the 11M of us will miss you.
Firstly there is no way there are still 11M people playing,and no you wont miss me, unless you have fallen in love with me but in that case I have to warn you I can get a little rough. Now let me tell you a secret, come in real close now.... I don't care :P Im not giving up WoW to put pressure on them to change the game, like 1 subscriber could do that, its just that it's boring and has gone down hill. TBH out of my 3 picks im sure 2 will be worse but who knows, 1 of them may be just what I need.
Now there are classes for people who get overly defencive, just check the Yellow Pages. You don't wike my game anymo I dont want ta be yo fwend ^^
Its crap, it destroys the feeling of being part of a Server community, and makes the game feel less like a MMO and more like a lobby.
To each his own, but I HATE it.
Then by all means don't use it. But those that advocate its removal, or cripplining it so that the game fits their "vision" of How Things Should Be, are in a clear minority.
You are right, the minority can't expect a game to conform to what they wan't, so Ill be moving on to another MMO, curently have my eye on GW2, Tera and Rift, just hope this lobby crap doesn't spill over to them
Sure. I don't think any of the 11M of us will miss you.
Firstly there is no way there are still 11M people playing,and no you wont miss me, unless you have fallen in love with me but in that case I have to warn you I can get a little rough. Now let me tell you a secret, come in real close now.... I don't care :P Im not giving up WoW to put pressure on them to change the game, like 1 subscriber could do that, its just that it's boring and has gone down hill. TBH out of my 3 picks im sure 2 will be worse but who knows, 1 of them may be just what I need.
Now there are classes for people who get overly defencive, just check the Yellow Pages. You don't wike my game anymo I dont want ta be yo fwend ^^
For someone who don't care, you certainly spend a lot of time writing about it in the forum.
I suppose if you want to listent to us of how we enjoy DF and other new features of WOW, you are welcomed to do so.
I love the dungeon finder. It is not only very convenient, but it has also successfully revived old school dungeons. You can now enjoy them with other lowbies instead of your lv80 friend who is willing to run you through a dungeon once or twice for gear. I think its great.
Its crap, it destroys the feeling of being part of a Server community, and makes the game feel less like a MMO and more like a lobby.
To each his own, but I HATE it.
Then by all means don't use it. But those that advocate its removal, or cripplining it so that the game fits their "vision" of How Things Should Be, are in a clear minority.
You are right, the minority can't expect a game to conform to what they wan't, so Ill be moving on to another MMO, curently have my eye on GW2, Tera and Rift, just hope this lobby crap doesn't spill over to them
Sure. I don't think any of the 11M of us will miss you.
Firstly there is no way there are still 11M people playing,and no you wont miss me, unless you have fallen in love with me but in that case I have to warn you I can get a little rough. Now let me tell you a secret, come in real close now.... I don't care :P Im not giving up WoW to put pressure on them to change the game, like 1 subscriber could do that, its just that it's boring and has gone down hill. TBH out of my 3 picks im sure 2 will be worse but who knows, 1 of them may be just what I need.
Now there are classes for people who get overly defencive, just check the Yellow Pages. You don't wike my game anymo I dont want ta be yo fwend ^^
For someone who don't care, you certainly spend a lot of time writing about it in the forum.
I suppose if you want to listent to us of how we enjoy DF and other new features of WOW, you are welcomed to do so.
Na im the same in any forum I post in, love to go back and read responses + it never hurts to hear other peoples opinions.
If you have DF in Cataclsym, you really do not need the revamped land masses in Cata, but just the dungeons. You once again hang out in Dalaran and spam the DF tool ad nauseum.
This is why I cannot see DF (in its current unbound state) in Cataclsym. I mean, why make outdoor zones that will be mostly empty?
Another issue I seem to have is the fact that dungeons are locked after (I assume) the first boss kill, which is fine for a server-based pick up group, but there's problems when that's mixed with the dungeon finder. As I mentioned earlier, it's far too easy for players to simply bail on a group for any reason with little or no consequence, so any time a player's buddies want to go eat, a player has an issue with the group, or a wipe occurs, the player just leaves the group with little to no reasoning, and thus that specific instance is locked for the remainder of the night. For randoms this isn't an issue, but when it comes down to running specific dungeons for specific loot drops, being unable to re-queue for a dungeon you haven't completed yet is a serious pain given the flipant nature of the players in how frequently they see fit to leave on a dime.
If you have DF in Cataclsym, you really do not need the revamped land masses in Cata, but just the dungeons. You once again hang out in Dalaran and spam the DF tool ad nauseum.
This is why I cannot see DF (in its current unbound state) in Cataclsym. I mean, why make outdoor zones that will be mostly empty?
Choices are always good. No one says even if dungeons are faster, you have to use DF 100% of the leveling time. I planned to do both.
Another issue I seem to have is the fact that dungeons are locked after (I assume) the first boss kill, which is fine for a server-based pick up group, but there's problems when that's mixed with the dungeon finder. As I mentioned earlier, it's far too easy for players to simply bail on a group for any reason with little or no consequence, so any time a player's buddies want to go eat, a player has an issue with the group, or a wipe occurs, the player just leaves the group with little to no reasoning, and thus that specific instance is locked for the remainder of the night. For randoms this isn't an issue, but when it comes down to running specific dungeons for specific loot drops, being unable to re-queue for a dungeon you haven't completed yet is a serious pain given the flipant nature of the players in how frequently they see fit to leave on a dime.
If the RDF worked... if it takes 10-15 minutes for form a party, it would not take 30 minutes or more to find a replacement, eh? It would be more along the lines of returning to the front of the queue as if somebody declined (while still giving them the option to decline based on the number of bosses kiled without removing them from the queue themselves). But no...
...then add in not only the people that leave, but the folks that have a friend come online and kick somebody from the party - that person now locked to the instance that they were trying to gear from.
Yep, RDF has goods and bads...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
The dungeon finder itself, is a great concept, but the problem is that people use it so they can do the same exact thing over and over and ... over.
Warcraft is too broken now to be fixed, but the ability to skip over stuff you have already done in order get to the thing you want to do is not a bad thing.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Another issue I seem to have is the fact that dungeons are locked after (I assume) the first boss kill, which is fine for a server-based pick up group, but there's problems when that's mixed with the dungeon finder. As I mentioned earlier, it's far too easy for players to simply bail on a group for any reason with little or no consequence, so any time a player's buddies want to go eat, a player has an issue with the group, or a wipe occurs, the player just leaves the group with little to no reasoning, and thus that specific instance is locked for the remainder of the night. For randoms this isn't an issue, but when it comes down to running specific dungeons for specific loot drops, being unable to re-queue for a dungeon you haven't completed yet is a serious pain given the flipant nature of the players in how frequently they see fit to leave on a dime.
If the RDF worked... if it takes 10-15 minutes for form a party, it would not take 30 minutes or more to find a replacement, eh? It would be more along the lines of returning to the front of the queue as if somebody declined (while still giving them the option to decline based on the number of bosses kiled without removing them from the queue themselves). But no...
...then add in not only the people that leave, but the folks that have a friend come online and kick somebody from the party - that person now locked to the instance that they were trying to gear from.
Yep, RDF has goods and bads...
I think myself and a lot of DPS classes really don't mind waiting together, but tanks and healers tend to come and go as they please seeing as they're only looking at around a 10 minute wait time on a slow day. Even so, DPS classes are rarely on the same page and see no reason to stay grouped while waiting in queue, especially in an attempt to fill opened spots in an existing dungeon. Most of the time players will simply follow the lead of the tank or healer and quit the party without warning until the player who needs to run the specific instance is left with nothing else to do but hearth back to Dalaran, and that's where the problem is. I see no reason why Blizzard doesn't change the lockout timers on heroics to apply to completed instances only, meaning after the final boss is killed. Farming isn't an issue because only basic junk tends to drop from the sub-bosses in each dungeon, and that way players are free to take as many stabs at a stab at a dungeon until it is completed without having to worry about getting screwed over by the otherwise awesome dungeon finder system.
Last night I made an attempt at running heroic Trial of the Champion and Gundrak for Champion's Seals and a ring from the final boss in Gundrak, but each attempt was met with unmitigated failure as my Trial of the Champion group ended after I was removed from the group because, as a fresh 80, I should be expected to do more than 1.8k DPS even after dieing not even halfway through the fight due to an incompetant tank, and the Gundrak group couldn't even make it past the first boss. Granted, these are all areas I've been too before with little to no issue. Couple this with the fact that I found out I was now locked out of each zone, I logged out in disgust.
Comments
Yeah except for the fact majority of the WoW plays use gearscore and if your gearscore isn't up to what they consider good, you won't be able to do instances. It's very hard to do instances if your new because of this addon. To many people think high gearscore means your a better player.
Everyone has opinions, but does that make them the universal truth??? NO!
No, i don't like it, at all. It's only good for people that want to rush straight to 80 or farm badges quickly all day. The fun parts of WoW for me were taken away: exploring and socializing. Nowadays u can get to 80 without leaving Org and 90% of the groups u get into just type "buffs" at the beginning of the instance and "gg" at the end. U see, assembling a group could be a hard task sometimes but it was well worth it, specially when u get to know ppl better.
Playing: Starcraft II.
Played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Ultima Online, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft.
Wanna play: Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, Final Fantasy XIV, Diablo III.
Same repeated answer to the same question:
How do you earn gold in the game to experience the gameplay ?
Not by standing in a city. And at level 80 it costs 250 Gold to raid and 500 Gold to equip stones/enchantments ... PER decent item.
The economy is driven by gathering mats and there is now even a complete new game part on the mobile platform for it.
And you just say the game is played in a dungeon. How much can one lie.
it is very clear you Sir can't play the game simply by standing in a city...(unless you all buy gold from wowgold.com) AND are willing to give up ALL other gaming options besides dungeons.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Why? I can get different items? I can run with different toons. You know that playing a mage is totally different than playing a rogue, even fighting the same boss, right?
Plus, fighting is fun for me. Walkint the same route again and agani is not.
You logic fails. DF is an OPTION. Nothing is taken away. You can still explore the world if you want to. No one explores in a group anyway.
it is not that hard.
Just run normal instances (plus crafting & buying stuff off AH) till u have teh gear score to do H
Just run H till you have the gear score to raid.
If you don't know how to do that .. they are RIGHT .. you are not a very good player.
Yeah great, I want to sit in Org for an 1 hour trying to get a group then have to log off as my time is up. I like to be able to use my time in the ebst possible way and the DF lets me do that. Some groups are bad (or have a bad member) but most have been very good. It's one of the best systems Blizzard has implemented so far.
Its crap, it destroys the feeling of being part of a Server community, and makes the game feel less like a MMO and more like a lobby.
To each his own, but I HATE it.
It's pointless to debate this topic because most of the people who are against it spout off something like 'server community' with nothing to back that statement up with, as if WoW was the shining example of server communities before dungeon finder (hint: it wasnt'). As if people weren't sitting in Dalaran before Dungeon Finder trying to get groups in trade chat.
I bet most don't even play the game or haven't in a very long time.
LOL, I have played since vanilla, and met a lot of friends doing dungeons. Also knew who where good tanks, healers etc because I played with them before. And your right WoW is not a shining example of community, but dungeon finder is just making it worse.
Back my statement up: Im speaking from personal experience on a topic asking for opinions, and that is my "opinion" maybe read the OP's post before turning into a condescending tool ?
Actually, I tend to do dailies while I'm waiting for the DF to pop. More gold is always useful, even after one has maxed out ones useful factions. I must say that if they drop or cripple the DF in Cat, I will be MUCH less likely to purchase it. The DF has made a BIG difference in being able to have access to the dungeons. If they cripple that, or take it away, it means that MANY people will no longer have that access. I really hope they aren't that foolish.
Then by all means don't use it. But those that advocate its removal, or cripplining it so that the game fits their "vision" of How Things Should Be, are in a clear minority.
You are right, the minority can't expect a game to conform to what they wan't, so Ill be moving on to another MMO, curently have my eye on GW2, Tera and Rift, just hope this lobby crap doesn't spill over to them
Sure. I don't think any of the 11M of us will miss you.
Firstly there is no way there are still 11M people playing,and no you wont miss me, unless you have fallen in love with me but in that case I have to warn you I can get a little rough. Now let me tell you a secret, come in real close now.... I don't care :P Im not giving up WoW to put pressure on them to change the game, like 1 subscriber could do that, its just that it's boring and has gone down hill. TBH out of my 3 picks im sure 2 will be worse but who knows, 1 of them may be just what I need.
Now there are classes for people who get overly defencive, just check the Yellow Pages. You don't wike my game anymo I dont want ta be yo fwend ^^
For someone who don't care, you certainly spend a lot of time writing about it in the forum.
I suppose if you want to listent to us of how we enjoy DF and other new features of WOW, you are welcomed to do so.
I love the dungeon finder. It is not only very convenient, but it has also successfully revived old school dungeons. You can now enjoy them with other lowbies instead of your lv80 friend who is willing to run you through a dungeon once or twice for gear. I think its great.
Na im the same in any forum I post in, love to go back and read responses + it never hurts to hear other peoples opinions.
If you have DF in Cataclsym, you really do not need the revamped land masses in Cata, but just the dungeons. You once again hang out in Dalaran and spam the DF tool ad nauseum.
This is why I cannot see DF (in its current unbound state) in Cataclsym. I mean, why make outdoor zones that will be mostly empty?
Another issue I seem to have is the fact that dungeons are locked after (I assume) the first boss kill, which is fine for a server-based pick up group, but there's problems when that's mixed with the dungeon finder. As I mentioned earlier, it's far too easy for players to simply bail on a group for any reason with little or no consequence, so any time a player's buddies want to go eat, a player has an issue with the group, or a wipe occurs, the player just leaves the group with little to no reasoning, and thus that specific instance is locked for the remainder of the night. For randoms this isn't an issue, but when it comes down to running specific dungeons for specific loot drops, being unable to re-queue for a dungeon you haven't completed yet is a serious pain given the flipant nature of the players in how frequently they see fit to leave on a dime.
Choices are always good. No one says even if dungeons are faster, you have to use DF 100% of the leveling time. I planned to do both.
If the RDF worked... if it takes 10-15 minutes for form a party, it would not take 30 minutes or more to find a replacement, eh? It would be more along the lines of returning to the front of the queue as if somebody declined (while still giving them the option to decline based on the number of bosses kiled without removing them from the queue themselves). But no...
...then add in not only the people that leave, but the folks that have a friend come online and kick somebody from the party - that person now locked to the instance that they were trying to gear from.
Yep, RDF has goods and bads...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
It's a bad feature for an MMO, first they took out world pvp, now they took out another reason for players to go out into the world.
now all you have to do is get to level 15 and sit in the city your whole game time and run dungeons.
WoW might as well be a diablo type lobby game now.
The dungeon finder itself, is a great concept, but the problem is that people use it so they can do the same exact thing over and over and ... over.
Warcraft is too broken now to be fixed, but the ability to skip over stuff you have already done in order get to the thing you want to do is not a bad thing.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
I think myself and a lot of DPS classes really don't mind waiting together, but tanks and healers tend to come and go as they please seeing as they're only looking at around a 10 minute wait time on a slow day. Even so, DPS classes are rarely on the same page and see no reason to stay grouped while waiting in queue, especially in an attempt to fill opened spots in an existing dungeon. Most of the time players will simply follow the lead of the tank or healer and quit the party without warning until the player who needs to run the specific instance is left with nothing else to do but hearth back to Dalaran, and that's where the problem is. I see no reason why Blizzard doesn't change the lockout timers on heroics to apply to completed instances only, meaning after the final boss is killed. Farming isn't an issue because only basic junk tends to drop from the sub-bosses in each dungeon, and that way players are free to take as many stabs at a stab at a dungeon until it is completed without having to worry about getting screwed over by the otherwise awesome dungeon finder system.
Last night I made an attempt at running heroic Trial of the Champion and Gundrak for Champion's Seals and a ring from the final boss in Gundrak, but each attempt was met with unmitigated failure as my Trial of the Champion group ended after I was removed from the group because, as a fresh 80, I should be expected to do more than 1.8k DPS even after dieing not even halfway through the fight due to an incompetant tank, and the Gundrak group couldn't even make it past the first boss. Granted, these are all areas I've been too before with little to no issue. Couple this with the fact that I found out I was now locked out of each zone, I logged out in disgust.