BUT if people are made to run in a Mouse Wheel to get gear, and fight against the AI they soon get tired and bored... Now SW Tor will not have any harsh death penelties or space that you can counqure and hold for your Guild etc. All it has shown us is another RUN WHEEL that we are suposed to climb onto. AND IM TELLING YOU PEOPLE ARE BORED TO DEATH DOING THIS http://schoolnew.discoveryeducation.com/clipart/images/mousewheel.gif
Not really. If people were really that bored and tired so soon, then most of the players would have stopped playing WoW after a few years, or any current MMO for that matter, instead of doing the same endgame content over and over again.
Since that's not the case, that argument is invalid.
The same applies to singleplayer games and the gameplay mechanics you will encounter there: look at the several different genres and you will a LOT of the same gameplay mechanics, also you will notice that a large part of those bestselling games with the same gameplay mechanics do not have any multiplayer function to speak of.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
people who like to romanticise how great, smooth, polished, and exceptionally perfect WoW is, are either forgeting, or were not around when it was first released. blizzard went throught the same growing pains at launch that Aoc, Aion, Hellgate london, and any new title goes through. WoW was not released as it stands now... it took many patches to fix bugs/ lag issues, and multiple expansion packs to make it what it is now. so while we all like to look back with great fondness on the past, let us not forget the other half of the story that was filled with the disapointment and frustration that creates the "whole" story
people who like to romanticise how great, smooth, polished, and exceptionally perfect WoW is, are either forgeting, or were not around when it was first released. blizzard went throught the same growing pains at launch that Aoc, Aion, Hellgate london, and any new title goes through. WoW was not released as it stands now... it took many patches to fix bugs/ lag issues, and multiple expansion packs to make it what it is now. so while we all like to look back with great fondness on the past, let us not forget the other half of the story that was filled with the disapointment and frustration that creates the "whole" story
That doesn't help SW TOR.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
i have found without any real trouble, many actual hands on reviews of ToR written by professional critics, and just plain fans of games. i dont have any special internet searching abilities, just standard old internet expolorer.
this is one link that i found that is a good summary of the actual facts about the game based on poeple who actually played the game, and direct knowledge from people who are creating the game. these are not opinions, they are hard proven facts.
as far as reviews go, even critics who are famous for being "the hard to please critic" or " the nitpicking " critic, have nothing but positive things to say about the game. the comon theme between them is how "un wow like" this game is, other then being a mmo style online game.
i agree we can all discuss our opinions about what we personally prefer or dislike about any game we play, but even an idiot knows that if u dont base ur opinion on facts,then that opinion is worth shit.. all i'm saying is finding out what the game will actually be isnt that hard to do for any one who has enough computer savy to find this site, start an account, and make a post. dont be lazy, do a little work so we all can have an intelligent conversation about the pros and cons of the game we are all anticipating in one way or another
lol your link only Proves my point mate?? Am I alone in here that dont want to play anymore of these types of games? I cant get my head around it. Do you people only want classes that can be put into, Heal, tank and dps.. Hotbars for your abilities? Do you only want to play these games to get new loot for your charecters? Do you like feeling like a mouse running in a wheel?
I dont understnd any one of you to be honest? what is the fun of running storylined quests? premade content, it has a premade ending? why not watch a movie instead?
MMOs for me are about going up against others and not be sure if I will win or not. Its about creating something lasting in these games?
But all you people seem to like is running in your mouse wheel and get your loot so you can show it off... Its so 2004 people the genre needs to go past this. It needs to go back to being worlds that we can effect and change. Not endless thread wheels where we run and run and run and 6 months from now we havent really done anything meanigfull. We havent effect one other person or changed anything about the game we are playing. We have just gotten a new ligthsaber and some new fancy toys to put in our parked space ship.....
blizzard went throught the same growing pains at launch that Aoc, Aion, Hellgate london, and any new title goes through.
Uh, not to burst anyone's fantasy here but the "growing pains" that Age of Conan went through were not normal. It had major stat bonuses which did nothing for several classes and entire tiers of mid-level gear missing. There were dungeons, like that pyramid in the desert, that were blatently incomplete and "featured" bosses that clipped through walls or quests that literally resulted in corridors that came to an abrupt end. Several classes had talent trees with an abundance of abilities that either did absolutely nothing or provided a bonus that was utterly useless (reduced cooldown on a root spell that had steep diminishing returns). These were on top of the regular, run-of-the-mill bugs that infest every game's laugh like a few broken quests, missing dialog, unfinished content (both crafting and siege warfare) or class imbalance.
If we were to continue with our analogy of "growing pains," then AoC was the child with a small propeller on his cap and missing several limbs - a far cry from normal indeed.
The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.
i have found without any real trouble, many actual hands on reviews of ToR written by professional critics, and just plain fans of games. i dont have any special internet searching abilities, just standard old internet expolorer.
this is one link that i found that is a good summary of the actual facts about the game based on poeple who actually played the game, and direct knowledge from people who are creating the game. these are not opinions, they are hard proven facts.
as far as reviews go, even critics who are famous for being "the hard to please critic" or " the nitpicking " critic, have nothing but positive things to say about the game. the comon theme between them is how "un wow like" this game is, other then being a mmo style online game.
i agree we can all discuss our opinions about what we personally prefer or dislike about any game we play, but even an idiot knows that if u dont base ur opinion on facts,then that opinion is worth shit.. all i'm saying is finding out what the game will actually be isnt that hard to do for any one who has enough computer savy to find this site, start an account, and make a post. dont be lazy, do a little work so we all can have an intelligent conversation about the pros and cons of the game we are all anticipating in one way or another
lol your link only Proves my point mate?? Am I alone in here that dont want to play anymore of these types of games? I cant get my head around it. Do you people only want classes that can be put into, Heal, tank and dps.. Hotbars for your abilities? Do you only want to play these games to get new loot for your charecters? Do you like feeling like a mouse running in a wheel?
I dont understnd any one of you to be honest? what is the fun of running storylined quests? premade content, it has a premade ending? why not watch a movie instead?
MMOs for me are about going up against others and not be sure if I will win or not. Its about creating something lasting in these games?
But all you people seem to like is running in your mouse wheel and get your loot so you can show it off... Its so 2004 people the genre needs to go past this. It needs to go back to being worlds that we can effect and change. Not endless thread wheels where we run and run and run and 6 months from now we havent really done anything meanigfull. We havent effect one other person or changed anything about the game we are playing. We have just gotten a new ligthsaber and some new fancy toys to put in our parked space ship.....
my point wasn't to argue yours... u are completely free to want to play ..i guess u r looking APB or DC universe online , or a game like that.. something more just u and ur buddies vs another group. my point is against the people who are argueing what is in this game despite what is proven not to be or vice versa... as far as doing something meaningful, do u mean like voluntering to help build a school, mentoring kids, helping the homeless? this is a game... there is nothing meaningfull in any of these games... so i guess i am missing ur point
blizzard went throught the same growing pains at launch that Aoc, Aion, Hellgate london, and any new title goes through.
Uh, not to burst anyone's fantasy here but the "growing pains" that Age of Conan went through were not normal. It had major stat bonuses which did nothing for several classes and entire tiers of mid-level gear missing. There were dungeons, like that pyramid in the desert, that were blatently incomplete and "featured" bosses that clipped through walls or quests that literally resulted in corridors that came to an abrupt end. Several classes had talent trees with an abundance of abilities that either did absolutely nothing or provided a bonus that was utterly useless (reduced cooldown on a root spell that had steep diminishing returns). These were on top of the regular, run-of-the-mill bugs that infest every game's laugh like a few broken quests, missing dialog, unfinished content (both crafting and siege warfare) or class imbalance.
If we were to continue with our analogy of "growing pains," then AoC was the child with a small propeller on his cap and missing several limbs - a far cry from normal indeed.
not really the point i was making.. but i'm sorry for not going into complete details on the levels of difficulties each individual game went through at launch... my bad... i
After all the E-3 stuff I'm actually beginibg to think that it is going to be next years Aion. A summation of everything in an MMORPG that has come out since WOW which is also really pretty but without anythng really new in it. Everyone is going sandbox but this is a themepark ( how many people still read the quest dialog? This not only has that but it is all read to you by actors!. After 20 hours of having Yoda give me quest instructions I'll probably slit my wrists.). Everyone is going classless but this has the 4 old-style classes in it ( the Trinity + Thief). Everyone is going F2P or cash shops (even Blizzard) and this will be $15-$20. I think it will be the Sci Fi (Sy Fy!) version of Aion just with story instead of grind.
Just so you guys know, WoW's UI was copied from EQ 1 and that game also copied from others. So before you go around spouting how everything copies from WoW, please realise that WoW was not the first to do any of these things.
I think 99% of the people on this forum know that. It is more of a term based on the success of WoW and how companies won't break away from the mold.
Basically along the lines of WoW trying to be the Wal-Mart of the MMORPG world... but what stores try to copy Wal-Mart and succeed versus those that cater to smaller clientele or a niche market, doing it well and are more than a reasonable success?
Very good analogy.
Here's another analogy. WoW is the McDonlads of the mmorpg market; wide variety of instant and quick individual substance. Just because something is widely popular doesn't mean its nutritious.
Bioware developers are at fault for designing a game that will emulate WoW with light-sabers, and mentioning their intent within the context of their communication and releases; the community is not at fault for that.
WoW's high-regard and popularity mostly stems from its Asian market adoption; yes, world-wide, but a market that Bioware might not enter on the onset.
Will SWTOR be successful? Sure, because the measure of success based on the last 5-years of mmorpg game releases amounts to 300,000 sustained subscribers post 1-year out (save Aion).
Will SWTOR be hugely successful, sur[passing the 1 million sustained subscribership mark 1-year out? Probaly not. The western hemisphere, I think, is tired of the regimented WoW game-play of heavy single-player esque pve, redundant raids, shoe-box instances, minimalist community interaction/interplay within non-open world game-play of good vs evil roles or faction vs. faction.
Unless Biowre can inject the massively and largely open community game-play mechanics into their supposed massively-multiplayer game, and noticably and widely expand upon the limited massively-multiplayer assets, mechanics and content of WoW, then its reasonable to follow the Bioware devs lead on continuing to imply and remark how similar to WoW SWTOR will be.
lol your link only Proves my point mate?? Am I alone in here that dont want to play anymore of these types of games? I cant get my head around it. Do you people only want classes that can be put into, Heal, tank and dps.. Hotbars for your abilities? Do you only want to play these games to get new loot for your charecters? Do you like feeling like a mouse running in a wheel?
For what it is worth, from everything I've read on ToR, the classes will not be split up that way. Yes, a Jedi Consular can have a good bit of healing ability, but it also does DPS and won't be spamming heals. Some characters will be tougher than others, but all appearances are that they won't be forcing all of the enemies to attack them. It doesn't look like a true Holy Trinity game, but more like an actual roleplaying game where each character has their strengths and weaknesses without insane overspecialization.
After all the E-3 stuff I'm actually beginibg to think that it is going to be next years Aion. A summation of everything in an MMORPG that has come out since WOW which is also really pretty but without anythng really new in it. Everyone is going sandbox but this is a themepark ( how many people still read the quest dialog?
Ever play an RPG with actual choices that matter? That's what quest dialogue is full of in ToR. The reason people don't care for quest dialogue in a game like WoW is because it doesn't make a difference. You can't choose to not be a fool and not fall into the obvious trap in WoW. You can't choose to kill or spare an evil guy with some signs he might redeem himself. You can't choose to do anything, really. If you change that, then quest dialogue becomes an interactive part of the game and something you don't want to avoid.
lol your link only Proves my point mate?? Am I alone in here that dont want to play anymore of these types of games? I cant get my head around it. Do you people only want classes that can be put into, Heal, tank and dps.. Hotbars for your abilities? Do you only want to play these games to get new loot for your charecters? Do you like feeling like a mouse running in a wheel?
For what it is worth, from everything I've read on ToR, the classes will not be split up that way. Yes, a Jedi Consular can have a good bit of healing ability, but it also does DPS and won't be spamming heals. Some characters will be tougher than others, but all appearances are that they won't be forcing all of the enemies to attack them. It doesn't look like a true Holy Trinity game, but more like an actual roleplaying game where each character has their strengths and weaknesses without insane overspecialization.
i'm gkad to see that some other people are actually taking the time to find out what is really in the game b4 making accusative claims about content and game play
I think it is rather silly to act like ToR is some sort of WoW in space. There are a lot of significant differences.
First, combat isn't largely 1v1 affairs. Instead you are fighting groups of enemies and have CC and other tools to handle groups. That alone is a significant departure from WoW combat and indicates there will be more tactical depth, especially when you toss in companions and groups that don't have to be cookie-cutter. So while in some very simplistic ways it might be like WoW (an action bar, not an FPS, etc), in many other ways combat is not like WoW.
Questing isn't like WoW other, since you have meaningful dialogue options that have consequences. A truly story-based game where you decide how to react to what is going on rather than being a passive schmuck is a huge difference to all current MMOs. This is not a minor thing.
Combat is going to be auto attacking and click one skill to appeal to the masses. It won't be engaging at all. Because if they do that, the casual masses will complain that's it's too hard. They aren't spending 150 mil on a game for a more hardcore crowd. I have expect this to be more casual than WoW. So saying fights will have a lot of tactics to win and overcome is a huge s tretch IMO.
As for meaningful dialouge and quests. I think any real gamer that played dragon age knows how little the options you pick really mean. You get the same results with different answers. So what is the point of having different answers. It's the ilussion that you're making a change, not that you actually are.
Please come up with more differences so I can tell you how they are not different.
I think it is rather silly to act like ToR is some sort of WoW in space. There are a lot of significant differences.
First, combat isn't largely 1v1 affairs. Instead you are fighting groups of enemies and have CC and other tools to handle groups. That alone is a significant departure from WoW combat and indicates there will be more tactical depth, especially when you toss in companions and groups that don't have to be cookie-cutter. So while in some very simplistic ways it might be like WoW (an action bar, not an FPS, etc), in many other ways combat is not like WoW.
Questing isn't like WoW other, since you have meaningful dialogue options that have consequences. A truly story-based game where you decide how to react to what is going on rather than being a passive schmuck is a huge difference to all current MMOs. This is not a minor thing.
Combat is going to be auto attacking and click one skill to appeal to the masses. It won't be engaging at all. Because if they do that, the casual masses will complain that's it's too hard. They aren't spending 150 mil on a game for a more hardcore crowd. I have expect this to be more casual than WoW. So saying fights will have a lot of tactics to win and overcome is a huge s tretch IMO.
As for meaningful dialouge and quests. I think any real gamer that played dragon age knows how little the options you pick really mean. You get the same results with different answers. So what is the point of having different answers. It's the ilussion that you're making a change, not that you actually are.
Please come up with more differences so I can tell you how they are not different.
At this point is there any other type of combat other than the "point and click a skill" that appeals to the masses ? Nope!
I think it is rather silly to act like ToR is some sort of WoW in space. There are a lot of significant differences.
First, combat isn't largely 1v1 affairs. Instead you are fighting groups of enemies and have CC and other tools to handle groups. That alone is a significant departure from WoW combat and indicates there will be more tactical depth, especially when you toss in companions and groups that don't have to be cookie-cutter. So while in some very simplistic ways it might be like WoW (an action bar, not an FPS, etc), in many other ways combat is not like WoW.
Questing isn't like WoW other, since you have meaningful dialogue options that have consequences. A truly story-based game where you decide how to react to what is going on rather than being a passive schmuck is a huge difference to all current MMOs. This is not a minor thing.
Combat is going to be auto attacking and click one skill to appeal to the masses. It won't be engaging at all. Because if they do that, the casual masses will complain that's it's too hard. They aren't spending 150 mil on a game for a more hardcore crowd. I have expect this to be more casual than WoW. So saying fights will have a lot of tactics to win and overcome is a huge s tretch IMO.
As for meaningful dialouge and quests. I think any real gamer that played dragon age knows how little the options you pick really mean. You get the same results with different answers. So what is the point of having different answers. It's the ilussion that you're making a change, not that you actually are.
Please come up with more differences so I can tell you how they are not different.
Umm , any Player that finished DA knows that every choice you made had major influence on the course of the end battle and the ending itself. No counting all the other things , like how much your Companions liked you , who refused to talk to you , the content you could unlock etc...
Also , there is no auto-attack in TOR. Read that articles before you make such statements please.
lol your link only Proves my point mate?? Am I alone in here that dont want to play anymore of these types of games? I cant get my head around it. Do you people only want classes that can be put into, Heal, tank and dps.. Hotbars for your abilities? Do you only want to play these games to get new loot for your charecters? Do you like feeling like a mouse running in a wheel?
I dont understnd any one of you to be honest? what is the fun of running storylined quests? premade content, it has a premade ending? why not watch a movie instead?
Here we go again. That you like PvP in MMO's more than PvE doesn't mean everyone else does, or should.
If you've watched action movies for a couple of years, have you grown suddenly bored of them so much that you won't see any more action movies? If you've played the singleplayer campaigns of shooter for several years, does that mean that you from now on won't ever play or enjoy the singleplayer part of the new shooters again, having grown sick of it? Because that's what you're saying. Are you really that shallow that you can't see or understand that?
SW ToR is as much the same as a WoW or LotrO as one action movie is the same as another: they fall in the same genre, still they're not copies from eachother. I'm sure I will be enjoying GW2, TSW as well as SW TOR when they are released, even if one is more innovative than the other.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think it is rather silly to act like ToR is some sort of WoW in space. There are a lot of significant differences.
First, combat isn't largely 1v1 affairs. Instead you are fighting groups of enemies and have CC and other tools to handle groups. That alone is a significant departure from WoW combat and indicates there will be more tactical depth, especially when you toss in companions and groups that don't have to be cookie-cutter. So while in some very simplistic ways it might be like WoW (an action bar, not an FPS, etc), in many other ways combat is not like WoW.
Questing isn't like WoW other, since you have meaningful dialogue options that have consequences. A truly story-based game where you decide how to react to what is going on rather than being a passive schmuck is a huge difference to all current MMOs. This is not a minor thing.
Combat is going to be auto attacking and click one skill to appeal to the masses. It won't be engaging at all. Because if they do that, the casual masses will complain that's it's too hard. They aren't spending 150 mil on a game for a more hardcore crowd. I have expect this to be more casual than WoW. So saying fights will have a lot of tactics to win and overcome is a huge s tretch IMO.
As for meaningful dialouge and quests. I think any real gamer that played dragon age knows how little the options you pick really mean. You get the same results with different answers. So what is the point of having different answers. It's the ilussion that you're making a change, not that you actually are.
Please come up with more differences so I can tell you how they are not different.
when u were playing this game and noticed these completely retreaded ideas, why didnt you bring them up at the dev meeting? it's funny... despite them repeatedly stateing flat out that ur choices will completely affect the outcome of the stories to the point of changeing how everyone around u reacts.. u still sat there knowing that they were lying and said nothing... the fact that dragon age was a certain style of game play must certainally mean that every game that comes along after it must be exactly the same...i mean every Real gamer knows that.. i'm pretty sure that i could come up with a good analagy about a proctologist and a well formed arguement if it wouldnt get me another warning
As for meaningful dialouge and quests. I think any real gamer that played dragon age knows how little the options you pick really mean. You get the same results with different answers. So what is the point of having different answers. It's the ilussion that you're making a change, not that you actually are.
I can't speak for Dragon Age, but the choices you make in Mass Effect and especially Mass Effect 2 does make a lot of difference in several of the plotlines. Even the major plotline will be affected by the choices you make, but even more the other plotlines and replies that you get will be affected by the conversations and decisions you made in them before. Consequences that will carry through to ME3.
So yes, dialogues can have different outcomes in quests. How much of what we've seen in ME2 of that we'll see return in TOR remains to be seen.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think it is rather silly to act like ToR is some sort of WoW in space. There are a lot of significant differences.
First, combat isn't largely 1v1 affairs. Instead you are fighting groups of enemies and have CC and other tools to handle groups. That alone is a significant departure from WoW combat and indicates there will be more tactical depth, especially when you toss in companions and groups that don't have to be cookie-cutter. So while in some very simplistic ways it might be like WoW (an action bar, not an FPS, etc), in many other ways combat is not like WoW.
Questing isn't like WoW other, since you have meaningful dialogue options that have consequences. A truly story-based game where you decide how to react to what is going on rather than being a passive schmuck is a huge difference to all current MMOs. This is not a minor thing.
Combat is going to be auto attacking and click one skill to appeal to the masses. It won't be engaging at all. Because if they do that, the casual masses will complain that's it's too hard. They aren't spending 150 mil on a game for a more hardcore crowd. I have expect this to be more casual than WoW. So saying fights will have a lot of tactics to win and overcome is a huge s tretch IMO.
As for meaningful dialouge and quests. I think any real gamer that played dragon age knows how little the options you pick really mean. You get the same results with different answers. So what is the point of having different answers. It's the ilussion that you're making a change, not that you actually are.
Please come up with more differences so I can tell you how they are not different.
From waht I've read from the hands on reports showcassing differnet class mechanics is that there is no auto attack.There is a standard attack that costs no energy but that has to be activated and does trigger a global cooldown to all your skills.Doesn't soudn liek a huge difference but it's still ad difference form what your saying.Of course this dfar out that is subject to change.
I think it is rather silly to act like ToR is some sort of WoW in space. There are a lot of significant differences.
First, combat isn't largely 1v1 affairs. Instead you are fighting groups of enemies and have CC and other tools to handle groups. That alone is a significant departure from WoW combat and indicates there will be more tactical depth, especially when you toss in companions and groups that don't have to be cookie-cutter. So while in some very simplistic ways it might be like WoW (an action bar, not an FPS, etc), in many other ways combat is not like WoW.
Questing isn't like WoW other, since you have meaningful dialogue options that have consequences. A truly story-based game where you decide how to react to what is going on rather than being a passive schmuck is a huge difference to all current MMOs. This is not a minor thing.
Combat is going to be auto attacking and click one skill to appeal to the masses. It won't be engaging at all. Because if they do that, the casual masses will complain that's it's too hard. They aren't spending 150 mil on a game for a more hardcore crowd. I have expect this to be more casual than WoW. So saying fights will have a lot of tactics to win and overcome is a huge s tretch IMO.
As for meaningful dialouge and quests. I think any real gamer that played dragon age knows how little the options you pick really mean. You get the same results with different answers. So what is the point of having different answers. It's the ilussion that you're making a change, not that you actually are.
Please come up with more differences so I can tell you how they are not different.
From waht I've read from the hands on reports showcassing differnet class mechanics is that there is no auto attack.There is a standard attack that costs no energy but that has to be activated and does trigger a global cooldown to all your skills.Doesn't soudn liek a huge difference but it's still ad difference form what your saying.Of course this dfar out that is subject to change.
The standard attack does trigger a global cool down on skills. I like this plan, as it does open it up for specific tactics based on situation and survivability. It kind of makes you pay attention to the fact that you're using this attack as a skill instead of just filler while you wait.
As for making choices... the choices you make in even the most minuscule sense changes the content. Maybe it will make someone attack you instead of befriend you, or maybe it forces you to do something a different way then you expected to. Even the slightest change in content based on a decision is more than most MMOs currently give you. This is not an illusion, this is something that BioWare has been doing for years. Perhaps some don't understand what effects your choices make if they've only made these choices once.
Just so you guys know, WoW's UI was copied from EQ 1 and that game also copied from others. So before you go around spouting how everything copies from WoW, please realise that WoW was not the first to do any of these things.
I think 99% of the people on this forum know that. It is more of a term based on the success of WoW and how companies won't break away from the mold.
Basically along the lines of WoW trying to be the Wal-Mart of the MMORPG world... but what stores try to copy Wal-Mart and succeed versus those that cater to smaller clientele or a niche market, doing it well and are more than a reasonable success?
Very good analogy.
Here's another analogy. WoW is the McDonlads of the mmorpg market; wide variety of instant and quick individual substance. Just because something is widely popular doesn't mean its nutritious.
Bioware developers are at fault for designing a game that will emulate WoW with light-sabers, and mentioning their intent within the context of their communication and releases; the community is not at fault for that.
WoW's high-regard and popularity mostly stems from its Asian market adoption; yes, world-wide, but a market that Bioware might not enter on the onset.
Will SWTOR be successful? Sure, because the measure of success based on the last 5-years of mmorpg game releases amounts to 300,000 sustained subscribers post 1-year out (save Aion).
Will SWTOR be hugely successful, sur[passing the 1 million sustained subscribership mark 1-year out? Probaly not. The western hemisphere, I think, is tired of the regimented WoW game-play of heavy single-player esque pve, redundant raids, shoe-box instances, minimalist community interaction/interplay within non-open world game-play of good vs evil roles or faction vs. faction.
Unless Biowre can inject the massively and largely open community game-play mechanics into their supposed massively-multiplayer game, and noticably and widely expand upon the limited massively-multiplayer assets, mechanics and content of WoW, then its reasonable to follow the Bioware devs lead on continuing to imply and remark how similar to WoW SWTOR will be.
I agree with his opinion.
Will SWTOR fail? What do you call fail?
For me the fail will be reaching their targets what means getting 1-2 millions subs after first month.
Will SWTOR sucess? What do you call sucess?
For me you can call a sucess if your game get past 100k subs after first month.
And i think it wont be a big deal for SWTOR to get past 100k subs after first months and at the end it doesnt matter how many players will play it as so far know it should be fu easy to solo up till "end content".
I think it is rather silly to act like ToR is some sort of WoW in space. There are a lot of significant differences.
First, combat isn't largely 1v1 affairs. Instead you are fighting groups of enemies and have CC and other tools to handle groups. That alone is a significant departure from WoW combat and indicates there will be more tactical depth, especially when you toss in companions and groups that don't have to be cookie-cutter. So while in some very simplistic ways it might be like WoW (an action bar, not an FPS, etc), in many other ways combat is not like WoW.
Questing isn't like WoW other, since you have meaningful dialogue options that have consequences. A truly story-based game where you decide how to react to what is going on rather than being a passive schmuck is a huge difference to all current MMOs. This is not a minor thing.
There was a thread about how the worlds are "WoW-like" and it ended up that just means you don't have loading screens and zones are seemless. Isn't that a good thing? I don't see how that makes a game feel like WoW. Rather it seems to just increase immersion and be something worth complaining about if they didn't have it.
True, there are some areas of concern if you want to avoid the bland features of WoW. Crafting is "like WoW with some twists" for instance, and I loathe WoW's crafting system. On the other hand, you could say ToR's questing and combat system are like WoW with some twists. The twists matter a lot. For all we know the twists for crafting involve being able to customize the ingredients of a recipe. We'll have to wait and see.
Anyhow, obviously ToR has a number of similarities to WoW, but I think one shouldn't forget the significant differences. If there's anything it might be missing that I hope they find a way to add it would be public quests and GW2's quest system. For those not familiar with GW2, they give an example of a a town being under attack and rather than having to talk to someone to help out, you either help out (by fighting the bad guys) or don't without any need to talk to people to start the action. That's pretty awesome, imho, and I'd love to see that in ToR (GW2 is also having character stories where you make decisions). Anyhow, I think ToR has a lot going for it still, but some people are missing the forest for the trees with regards to similarity to WoW.
It's not about "acting like" TOR is like WoW, it's about the facts that prove TOR is becoming like WoW..
TOR uses the exact same color palette,
same number of factions(not every mmo has 2 restricted factions),
same number of classes,
same racial restricted classes,
same skill tree system,
same pvp zone system,
same exaggerated "stylized" art,
same limited character customization,
and btw there is no space in TOR, you get a landed ship on a pad that goes to cutscene when you fly between planets just like KOTOR.
The ONLY difference is voice-overs which is nothing new and got old with EQ2 really.
I think it is rather silly to act like ToR is some sort of WoW in space. There are a lot of significant differences.
First, combat isn't largely 1v1 affairs. Instead you are fighting groups of enemies and have CC and other tools to handle groups. That alone is a significant departure from WoW combat and indicates there will be more tactical depth, especially when you toss in companions and groups that don't have to be cookie-cutter. So while in some very simplistic ways it might be like WoW (an action bar, not an FPS, etc), in many other ways combat is not like WoW.
Questing isn't like WoW other, since you have meaningful dialogue options that have consequences. A truly story-based game where you decide how to react to what is going on rather than being a passive schmuck is a huge difference to all current MMOs. This is not a minor thing.
There was a thread about how the worlds are "WoW-like" and it ended up that just means you don't have loading screens and zones are seemless. Isn't that a good thing? I don't see how that makes a game feel like WoW. Rather it seems to just increase immersion and be something worth complaining about if they didn't have it.
True, there are some areas of concern if you want to avoid the bland features of WoW. Crafting is "like WoW with some twists" for instance, and I loathe WoW's crafting system. On the other hand, you could say ToR's questing and combat system are like WoW with some twists. The twists matter a lot. For all we know the twists for crafting involve being able to customize the ingredients of a recipe. We'll have to wait and see.
Anyhow, obviously ToR has a number of similarities to WoW, but I think one shouldn't forget the significant differences. If there's anything it might be missing that I hope they find a way to add it would be public quests and GW2's quest system. For those not familiar with GW2, they give an example of a a town being under attack and rather than having to talk to someone to help out, you either help out (by fighting the bad guys) or don't without any need to talk to people to start the action. That's pretty awesome, imho, and I'd love to see that in ToR (GW2 is also having character stories where you make decisions). Anyhow, I think ToR has a lot going for it still, but some people are missing the forest for the trees with regards to similarity to WoW.
It's not about "acting like" TOR is like WoW, it's about the facts that prove TOR is becoming like WoW..
TOR uses the exact same color palette,
Pretty sure every game these days is like this, because they aren't limited to silly numbers like 16 or 128 colors. This "complaint" is obviously something you are just making up.
same number of factions(not every mmo has 2 restricted factions),
It's bloody Star Wars. Good vs. Evil, what do you expect? If they made a third faction it would be grossly underplayed because it wouldn't be one of the big two. So many games use two factions anyhow that it is hardly something you can pin as "WoW"-like. Different from WoW, they have indicated that in the future faction switches might well be possible, just not at launch.
same number of classes,
WoW started with Mage, Priest, Hunter, Rogue, Warrior, Paladin, Shaman, Druid, Warlock. NINE classes. 8 per faction. ToR has 8 classes, 4 per faction. L2math.
same racial restricted classes,
The same racially restricted classes? You mean the classes or the races are the same?
Come on, race restriction is hardly WoW-esque. It's been around in RPGs since the VERY FIRST ONE, D&D. It's also part of Star Wars Lore. Do you think they should arbitrarily break lore so that they can have arbitrary differences from WoW?
same skill tree system,
From what I saw of the skill tree system, it is different. Advanced classes alone change a lot. Are there similarities? Sure, but it is hardly the same thing.
same pvp zone system,
How would you do it differently? Allow ganking of new players in beginning zones? Not allow open world PvP in other zones? Most games follow a similar system because it makes sense indepedently of WoW.
same exaggerated "stylized" art,
Hardly the same as WoW, which is far, far more exaggerated. This is like saying Loony Toons and Clone Wars (animated) have the same artistic style. I prefer a stylized system anyhow. They age a LOT better.
same limited character customization,
Not in terms of appearance. Are you complaining about it being a class-based system? That really just makes sense in Star Wars. It makes the universe a lot more realistic as well, otherwise Force Sensitivity would either be too expensive (so gimp to get), almost everyone would get it (too common), or too hard to get (so the large fan base that wants to be a Jedi couldn't be one). A class-based system works better.
and btw there is no space in TOR, you get a landed ship on a pad that goes to cutscene when you fly between planets just like KOTOR.
Though there are space battles. You just don't man a gun or fly a ship in them. We've seen this sort of thing where you have to repel people boarding the Capital Ship you are on and so forth. There's space, just not X-Wing combat (which we will probably see eventually).
The ONLY difference is voice-overs which is nothing new and got old with EQ2 really.
Yeah, because making decisions that matter isn't a difference at all. Group-based stories with that new mechanic isn't new either. *Yawn* you could at least try to be factually accurate.
I freely admit the result is "WoW"-like in some ways. Acting like there is a reasonable alternative to the ways it is WoW-like is pretty silly 9 times out of 10.
Comments
It's exactly like WoW! They're all like WoW! We're all playing WoW all the time; every game is WoW! It's everywhere and everyone!
*laughs maniacally and jumps into the river*
The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.
Not really. If people were really that bored and tired so soon, then most of the players would have stopped playing WoW after a few years, or any current MMO for that matter, instead of doing the same endgame content over and over again.
Since that's not the case, that argument is invalid.
The same applies to singleplayer games and the gameplay mechanics you will encounter there: look at the several different genres and you will a LOT of the same gameplay mechanics, also you will notice that a large part of those bestselling games with the same gameplay mechanics do not have any multiplayer function to speak of.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
people who like to romanticise how great, smooth, polished, and exceptionally perfect WoW is, are either forgeting, or were not around when it was first released. blizzard went throught the same growing pains at launch that Aoc, Aion, Hellgate london, and any new title goes through. WoW was not released as it stands now... it took many patches to fix bugs/ lag issues, and multiple expansion packs to make it what it is now. so while we all like to look back with great fondness on the past, let us not forget the other half of the story that was filled with the disapointment and frustration that creates the "whole" story
That doesn't help SW TOR.
from everything i have seen and read, ToR wont need any help at all.. i am stoked to play it. i dont care if 500 people or 5 million people join me
lol your link only Proves my point mate?? Am I alone in here that dont want to play anymore of these types of games? I cant get my head around it. Do you people only want classes that can be put into, Heal, tank and dps.. Hotbars for your abilities? Do you only want to play these games to get new loot for your charecters? Do you like feeling like a mouse running in a wheel?
I dont understnd any one of you to be honest? what is the fun of running storylined quests? premade content, it has a premade ending? why not watch a movie instead?
MMOs for me are about going up against others and not be sure if I will win or not. Its about creating something lasting in these games?
But all you people seem to like is running in your mouse wheel and get your loot so you can show it off... Its so 2004 people the genre needs to go past this. It needs to go back to being worlds that we can effect and change. Not endless thread wheels where we run and run and run and 6 months from now we havent really done anything meanigfull. We havent effect one other person or changed anything about the game we are playing. We have just gotten a new ligthsaber and some new fancy toys to put in our parked space ship.....
Uh, not to burst anyone's fantasy here but the "growing pains" that Age of Conan went through were not normal. It had major stat bonuses which did nothing for several classes and entire tiers of mid-level gear missing. There were dungeons, like that pyramid in the desert, that were blatently incomplete and "featured" bosses that clipped through walls or quests that literally resulted in corridors that came to an abrupt end. Several classes had talent trees with an abundance of abilities that either did absolutely nothing or provided a bonus that was utterly useless (reduced cooldown on a root spell that had steep diminishing returns). These were on top of the regular, run-of-the-mill bugs that infest every game's laugh like a few broken quests, missing dialog, unfinished content (both crafting and siege warfare) or class imbalance.
If we were to continue with our analogy of "growing pains," then AoC was the child with a small propeller on his cap and missing several limbs - a far cry from normal indeed.
The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.
Remembering that there is still a year to go...
After all the E-3 stuff I'm actually beginibg to think that it is going to be next years Aion. A summation of everything in an MMORPG that has come out since WOW which is also really pretty but without anythng really new in it. Everyone is going sandbox but this is a themepark ( how many people still read the quest dialog? This not only has that but it is all read to you by actors!. After 20 hours of having Yoda give me quest instructions I'll probably slit my wrists.). Everyone is going classless but this has the 4 old-style classes in it ( the Trinity + Thief). Everyone is going F2P or cash shops (even Blizzard) and this will be $15-$20. I think it will be the Sci Fi (Sy Fy!) version of Aion just with story instead of grind.
Here's another analogy. WoW is the McDonlads of the mmorpg market; wide variety of instant and quick individual substance. Just because something is widely popular doesn't mean its nutritious.
Bioware developers are at fault for designing a game that will emulate WoW with light-sabers, and mentioning their intent within the context of their communication and releases; the community is not at fault for that.
WoW's high-regard and popularity mostly stems from its Asian market adoption; yes, world-wide, but a market that Bioware might not enter on the onset.
Will SWTOR be successful? Sure, because the measure of success based on the last 5-years of mmorpg game releases amounts to 300,000 sustained subscribers post 1-year out (save Aion).
Will SWTOR be hugely successful, sur[passing the 1 million sustained subscribership mark 1-year out? Probaly not. The western hemisphere, I think, is tired of the regimented WoW game-play of heavy single-player esque pve, redundant raids, shoe-box instances, minimalist community interaction/interplay within non-open world game-play of good vs evil roles or faction vs. faction.
Unless Biowre can inject the massively and largely open community game-play mechanics into their supposed massively-multiplayer game, and noticably and widely expand upon the limited massively-multiplayer assets, mechanics and content of WoW, then its reasonable to follow the Bioware devs lead on continuing to imply and remark how similar to WoW SWTOR will be.
For what it is worth, from everything I've read on ToR, the classes will not be split up that way. Yes, a Jedi Consular can have a good bit of healing ability, but it also does DPS and won't be spamming heals. Some characters will be tougher than others, but all appearances are that they won't be forcing all of the enemies to attack them. It doesn't look like a true Holy Trinity game, but more like an actual roleplaying game where each character has their strengths and weaknesses without insane overspecialization.
Ever play an RPG with actual choices that matter? That's what quest dialogue is full of in ToR. The reason people don't care for quest dialogue in a game like WoW is because it doesn't make a difference. You can't choose to not be a fool and not fall into the obvious trap in WoW. You can't choose to kill or spare an evil guy with some signs he might redeem himself. You can't choose to do anything, really. If you change that, then quest dialogue becomes an interactive part of the game and something you don't want to avoid.
Combat is going to be auto attacking and click one skill to appeal to the masses. It won't be engaging at all. Because if they do that, the casual masses will complain that's it's too hard. They aren't spending 150 mil on a game for a more hardcore crowd. I have expect this to be more casual than WoW. So saying fights will have a lot of tactics to win and overcome is a huge s tretch IMO.
As for meaningful dialouge and quests. I think any real gamer that played dragon age knows how little the options you pick really mean. You get the same results with different answers. So what is the point of having different answers. It's the ilussion that you're making a change, not that you actually are.
Please come up with more differences so I can tell you how they are not different.
At this point is there any other type of combat other than the "point and click a skill" that appeals to the masses ? Nope!
Umm , any Player that finished DA knows that every choice you made had major influence on the course of the end battle and the ending itself. No counting all the other things , like how much your Companions liked you , who refused to talk to you , the content you could unlock etc...
Also , there is no auto-attack in TOR. Read that articles before you make such statements please.
Here we go again. That you like PvP in MMO's more than PvE doesn't mean everyone else does, or should.
If you've watched action movies for a couple of years, have you grown suddenly bored of them so much that you won't see any more action movies? If you've played the singleplayer campaigns of shooter for several years, does that mean that you from now on won't ever play or enjoy the singleplayer part of the new shooters again, having grown sick of it? Because that's what you're saying. Are you really that shallow that you can't see or understand that?
SW ToR is as much the same as a WoW or LotrO as one action movie is the same as another: they fall in the same genre, still they're not copies from eachother. I'm sure I will be enjoying GW2, TSW as well as SW TOR when they are released, even if one is more innovative than the other.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I can't speak for Dragon Age, but the choices you make in Mass Effect and especially Mass Effect 2 does make a lot of difference in several of the plotlines. Even the major plotline will be affected by the choices you make, but even more the other plotlines and replies that you get will be affected by the conversations and decisions you made in them before. Consequences that will carry through to ME3.
So yes, dialogues can have different outcomes in quests. How much of what we've seen in ME2 of that we'll see return in TOR remains to be seen.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
From waht I've read from the hands on reports showcassing differnet class mechanics is that there is no auto attack.There is a standard attack that costs no energy but that has to be activated and does trigger a global cooldown to all your skills.Doesn't soudn liek a huge difference but it's still ad difference form what your saying.Of course this dfar out that is subject to change.
The standard attack does trigger a global cool down on skills. I like this plan, as it does open it up for specific tactics based on situation and survivability. It kind of makes you pay attention to the fact that you're using this attack as a skill instead of just filler while you wait.
As for making choices... the choices you make in even the most minuscule sense changes the content. Maybe it will make someone attack you instead of befriend you, or maybe it forces you to do something a different way then you expected to. Even the slightest change in content based on a decision is more than most MMOs currently give you. This is not an illusion, this is something that BioWare has been doing for years. Perhaps some don't understand what effects your choices make if they've only made these choices once.
I agree with his opinion.
Will SWTOR fail? What do you call fail?
For me the fail will be reaching their targets what means getting 1-2 millions subs after first month.
Will SWTOR sucess? What do you call sucess?
For me you can call a sucess if your game get past 100k subs after first month.
And i think it wont be a big deal for SWTOR to get past 100k subs after first months and at the end it doesnt matter how many players will play it as so far know it should be fu easy to solo up till "end content".
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
It's not about "acting like" TOR is like WoW, it's about the facts that prove TOR is becoming like WoW..
TOR uses the exact same color palette,
same number of factions(not every mmo has 2 restricted factions),
same number of classes,
same racial restricted classes,
same skill tree system,
same pvp zone system,
same exaggerated "stylized" art,
same limited character customization,
and btw there is no space in TOR, you get a landed ship on a pad that goes to cutscene when you fly between planets just like KOTOR.
The ONLY difference is voice-overs which is nothing new and got old with EQ2 really.
I freely admit the result is "WoW"-like in some ways. Acting like there is a reasonable alternative to the ways it is WoW-like is pretty silly 9 times out of 10.