This thread is awesome because it shows the ridiculous nature of both fanboys and haters so well.
To the fanboys...this article is fine,the author is giving his impressions and feelings of playing the class in honest way.He in no way was denigrating the game and severla times piointe dout how short a time he had with it.I tihnk th ebiggest point he amd eis that he personally enjoyed palying the smuggler starting area more.He is allowed to skip dialogue if he chooses,as is anyone else.In this case I'm guessing he did so because he'd already seen the dialogue system at work with the smuggler class and wanted to spend his time on th eclass mechnaics this time.
To the Haters....this article is nto a review of the whole game and it's stated it was a time lmited hands on with one class in that classes starting area.He in no way made broad extrapolations to cover the whole game as you guys are doing.I'm also betting your Favorite MMORPG would not do well if "reviewed" based on one class,in a low level area and played for 15 minutes too.
Both groups of peopel need to stop being so myopic and wait till at least most of the game's mechnaics and features are brough tto light before deciding to liek the game or hate the game.This applies to all other upcoming games too.
A shame that the person had to rush through the dialogue, you should stick to FPS games if you don't want a story mate.
I love this....you people are cracking me up. You realize that skipping dialog in this game is going to be commonplace right? People want to PLAY the game. The story is and always will be tertiary at best. I'm one of those people who is HUGE about community, grouping with others, crafting, and stopping to smell the roses. I never rush to level cap. However, I also want to forge my own story and adventure, not have one rammed down my throat, multiple choice dialog included.
The order of importance for me is:
Playing the game (combat, crafting, exploring, etc)
Friends and community
Finding my own path/identity in the game. Building a model of who my character is in the game world. (semi-RP)
Story.
For some people, the game publisher's lore/story rates much lower on the scale, or is completely ignored. You might as well start getting over this fact now. If Bioware is relying on story only to make this game a hit, they may be in trouble.
You can see it in the author's post. He always loved Darth Maul, and now he wants to make his own character along that model. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have never liked any game that did my talking for me, even if it was just in some cut scenes. I guess that is because I take immersion so seriously in gaming. I am projecting a version of myself into the game world.
I am very much looking forward to trying this game, but I have some serious concerns thus far.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I'm just curious why people bother posting comments to "news articles" the writer isn't going to reply to them, and chances are wont ever bother reading them. he does what he was paid to do, however poorly you may feel he did said job.
Personally i disagree with his assertations, and disprove of him skipping dialogue in a game that implies one of its major highlights is bringing enjoyable story back to MMORPGs.
If it was a "news article" then there should have been no personal opinion on it. As such, in today's media it is almost nonexistent to find someone reporting on something objectively but that's another matter. If he is paid to do reports however, it would probably be worth it for him to not skip through the stuff he is reporting on.
I think this is what most people are going to get from ToR. Its going to be a well put together MMO but if long dialogue and story isn't your thing its not going to offer anything we haven't seen before. We will be killing 10 rats or slugs or whatever. And we will end up at max level looking for PvP or raids to kill time till the next expansion comes out. What it may lack is a means to keep players during those gaps between finishing the story and end game.
As lets face it any expansion has to offer 8 more story lines so we wont be expecting a chapter every month or so. As it takes time to write the scripts get the VO done and make sure it ties in.
I also dont like the story telling cut scene type effect this game is taking, will slow the game way to much. I am sorry some of us dont think much of story or lore, some of us prefer gameplay over all else and fluid endgame, dont care that some people say to slow down and enjoy the journey or its all about the journey and not the destination, to those I say poppy cock. MMO's have always been about end game.
My suggestion to you: Don't play this game.
Yes you can skip all the dialogue, but then you will find it IS a rather empty game. This is why the people who will buy this game (with a lifetime sub and all that) are buying it for story, a part of one of the most immersive and deepest stories of all time.
Me thinks that more people will play the game because it is Star Wars and made by Bioware....
The Star Wars IP is very very popular.A high powered IP with a well known developer is going to draw lots of people in.
Additionally, Bioware has said that they are targeting casual gamers, ie people who don't normally play MMOs. They whole "story as a 4th pillar" thing is meant to draw in the average/hardcore MMO player, the rest of the game is meant to grab casual gamers.
"I will say that for all of the story and personal achievements Bioware is hyping up in this game, killing slugs at the start just seemed like another MMO in my book."
This is the reason why so many people are sceptical about this game, including me.
Basically the gimmie gimmie gimmie generation of instant gratification kids wont like this game. Leaving it clear for the rest of us that want a more immersive experience
Atleast thats the way I am chosing to read it, seriously after all the plugging of story story story Bioware have done, you skipped past all that and for some reason acted suprised when you felt you were missing something.
Basically the gimmie gimmie gimmie generation of instant gratification kids wont like this game. Leaving it clear for the rest of us that want a more immersive experience
Atleast thats the way I am chosing to read it, seriously after all the plugging of story story story Bioware have done, you skipped past all that and for some reason acted suprised when you felt you were missing something.
Hardly suprising.
I concur.
Having dialog shoved down your throat as gameplay is hardly going to be an immersive experience. I don't know about you, but I don't like the person in the passenger seat of my car grabbing the steering wheel and turning while I am driving. I also don't like games taking my character from me and forcing me to use dialog or limiting my decisions in a way that doesn't represent who my character is in my mind. This was one of the few things I didn't like about Guild Wars. The cut scenes always protrayed my character talking in some way that was NOT me, and using some lame "hero" voice.
In my opinion, immersion comes from having a character in a very rich game world full of choices that I get to make. Your mileage may vary. I don't mind story arch quests that make me assume a certain role in the adventure as long as I get to decide everything else about it.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
People who like to read and people who like to play video games are not necessarily one and the same. I'm betting a lot of people will be either speed reading or skipping the dialogue as much as possible to get into the action. This is the way it has always been in other mmos, especially when the text gets a little wordy.
Ofcourse there will be those that read every word. There are always a few of those. But if you want to read a good story pick up a book. Nothing compares to a good novel.
It would seem everyone knows what an MMO is, considering most of you tried to explain it at the very least, so I suppose that's good out of a society of apparent flamers. Did anyone even read that in the end the writer was merely skipping dialogue to continue his quests, while in the start he took particular concern for making evil-small-talk and whatnot. The dialogue you go through will become very much repetitive when you tell everyone "Give me EXP or get 'Maul'ed/Faith-choked." And when immersed in a series of quests, say, 'go kill some jedi buddy-buds' you don't want to have to return to your Emperor Potpuri to tell him that you now killed the little kids and now want to move onto some Master Jedi. You'll end up skipping that chat to continue on the part of your story you are at currently. To slash Master Windu in the face with your plus ten swordblaster-thingy is considerably more exhilarating and contributing to the story than telling someone "Give me more exp now or die again."
You don't make your own world and story just out of the dialogue either, there is all the questing and walking and killing and more walking in-between, often a considerably bigger part of your game than simple chit-chat options.
I think the article was particularly interesting, I am hoping to try out the class myself when playing the actual game. The obvious problem is; that was a demo. While it represents a fragment of the true game to be released it is missing large parts of game play, say the lack of most skills to be added.
It's empowering to see the more respectful comments and the ones not trying to explain what an MMO is to a writer of, and everyone else, of a MMORPG gamer community.
You are everything that is wrong with the MMORPG genre OP.
"I don't want to read story! But it's so boring to level up grinding quests!"
"I just want to get to high level as fast as possible and show of my epics! But there is nothing to do in this game but getting epics and show off."
It's sad and pathetic.
You should be playing "Grindcraft 2.0 - The Search for More Epix" and leave the real MMORPG play to those who aren't 12 year olds hyped up on mountain dew and ritalin.
Honestly, if you aren't going at SW:TOR with the mindset of "I am going to enjoy the story and leveling experience" you really should not even play this game, or talk about it, or post about it.
Originally posted by Zederok Good review and as somone has already stated, clearly htis plays like any other MMO weve played for the last 10 years.
I also dont like the story telling cut scene type effect this game is taking, will slow the game way to much. I am sorry some of us dont think much of story or lore, some of us prefer gameplay over all else and fluid endgame, dont care that some people say to slow down and enjoy the journey or its all about the journey and not the destination, to those I say poppy cock. MMO's have always been about end game.
Sorry, but your playstyle is the reason they put out shallow games like Star Trek Online. We want "worlds" not just quick fix "games". Again, when I want a quick fix, I go play Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 for an hour or so, then come back to my MMOs for more depth, story and immersion.
Originally posted by MindTrigger Originally posted by Nomis278
Originally posted by Kothoses
Awesome news! Basically the gimmie gimmie gimmie generation of instant gratification kids wont like this game. Leaving it clear for the rest of us that want a more immersive experience Atleast thats the way I am chosing to read it, seriously after all the plugging of story story story Bioware have done, you skipped past all that and for some reason acted suprised when you felt you were missing something. Hardly suprising.
I concur. Having dialog shoved down your throat as gameplay is hardly going to be an immersive experience. I don't know about you, but I don't like the person in the passenger seat of my car grabbing the steering wheel and turning while I am driving. I also don't like games taking my character from me and forcing me to use dialog or limiting my decisions in a way that doesn't represent who my character is in my mind. This was one of the few things I didn't like about Guild Wars. The cut scenes always protrayed my character talking in some way that was NOT me, and using some lame "hero" voice. In my opinion, immersion comes from having a character in a very rich game world full of choices that I get to make. Your mileage may vary. I don't mind story arch quests that make me assume a certain role in the adventure as long as I get to decide everything else about it.
No offense, but maybe RPGs aren't your cup of tea. RPGs for the most part have always been interactive stories. Ones that you take a character down and through and all that. Granted, there are some openworld/sandbox games, like Elder Scrolls, but even those still had a main story. Without the story element, you basically are just playing a simulation. No thanks, give me story any day.
Good review and as somone has already stated, clearly htis plays like any other MMO weve played for the last 10 years.
I also dont like the story telling cut scene type effect this game is taking, will slow the game way to much. I am sorry some of us dont think much of story or lore, some of us prefer gameplay over all else and fluid endgame, dont care that some people say to slow down and enjoy the journey or its all about the journey and not the destination, to those I say poppy cock. MMO's have always been about end game.
Sorry, but your playstyle is the reason they put out shallow games like Star Trek Online. We want "worlds" not just quick fix "games". Again, when I want a quick fix, I go play Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 for an hour or so, then come back to my MMOs for more depth, story and immersion.
Worlds? Adding scripted dialog with multiple choice responses makes a regular game a "world"?
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
You are everything that is wrong with the MMORPG genre OP.
"I don't want to read story! But it's so boring to level up grinding quests!"
"I just want to get to high level as fast as possible and show of my epics! But there is nothing to do in this game but getting epics and show off."
It's sad and pathetic.
You should be playing "Grindcraft 2.0 - The Search for More Epix" and leave the real MMORPG play to those who aren't 12 year olds hyped up on mountain dew and ritalin.
Honestly, if you aren't going at SW:TOR with the mindset of "I am going to enjoy the story and leveling experience" you really should not even play this game, or talk about it, or post about it.
Spoiled little children.
It's so sad.
I was going to post but I can't say it better than heerobya bravo. Typical mmorpg.com fail OP and Im not that big of a SW:tor fan.
Good review and as somone has already stated, clearly htis plays like any other MMO weve played for the last 10 years.
I also dont like the story telling cut scene type effect this game is taking, will slow the game way to much. I am sorry some of us dont think much of story or lore, some of us prefer gameplay over all else and fluid endgame, dont care that some people say to slow down and enjoy the journey or its all about the journey and not the destination, to those I say poppy cock. MMO's have always been about end game.
Sorry, but your playstyle is the reason they put out shallow games like Star Trek Online. We want "worlds" not just quick fix "games". Again, when I want a quick fix, I go play Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 for an hour or so, then come back to my MMOs for more depth, story and immersion.
Worlds? Adding scripted dialog with multiple choice responses makes a regular game a "world"?
My thoughts exactly. It's ok to like story, but let's not pretend it's something it's not.
Basically the gimmie gimmie gimmie generation of instant gratification kids wont like this game. Leaving it clear for the rest of us that want a more immersive experience
Atleast thats the way I am chosing to read it, seriously after all the plugging of story story story Bioware have done, you skipped past all that and for some reason acted suprised when you felt you were missing something.
Hardly suprising.
I concur.
Having dialog shoved down your throat as gameplay is hardly going to be an immersive experience. I don't know about you, but I don't like the person in the passenger seat of my car grabbing the steering wheel and turning while I am driving. I also don't like games taking my character from me and forcing me to use dialog or limiting my decisions in a way that doesn't represent who my character is in my mind. This was one of the few things I didn't like about Guild Wars. The cut scenes always protrayed my character talking in some way that was NOT me, and using some lame "hero" voice.
In my opinion, immersion comes from having a character in a very rich game world full of choices that I get to make. Your mileage may vary. I don't mind story arch quests that make me assume a certain role in the adventure as long as I get to decide everything else about it.
No offense, but maybe RPGs aren't your cup of tea. RPGs for the most part have always been interactive stories. Ones that you take a character down and through and all that. Granted, there are some openworld/sandbox games, like Elder Scrolls, but even those still had a main story. Without the story element, you basically are just playing a simulation. No thanks, give me story any day.
I like to make my own story within the confines of the universe/lore available. I don't need the game to make my story for me. This is another reason I can't stand class systems in games. I don't want to be pigeonholed into some class that thousands of other players are playing too.
I realize that what I am talking about is a skill based sandbox, and that TOR isn't going to be anything near that. I have enjoyed a few theme park games as well though, so I am hoping this game will be enjoyable. For me, it won't be a long term home, that's for sure. It likely won't hold enough depth for that.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Originally posted by Zederok Good review and as somone has already stated, clearly htis plays like any other MMO weve played for the last 10 years.
I also dont like the story telling cut scene type effect this game is taking, will slow the game way to much. I am sorry some of us dont think much of story or lore, some of us prefer gameplay over all else and fluid endgame, dont care that some people say to slow down and enjoy the journey or its all about the journey and not the destination, to those I say poppy cock. MMO's have always been about end game.
Sorry, but your playstyle is the reason they put out shallow games like Star Trek Online. We want "worlds" not just quick fix "games". Again, when I want a quick fix, I go play Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 for an hour or so, then come back to my MMOs for more depth, story and immersion.
Worlds? Adding scripted dialog with multiple choice responses makes a regular game a "world"?
STO doesn't have scripted dialogue with multiple choice responses...
Oh, I see, you assume I know everything about SWTOR and changed my words around to suit your argument. Let me reiterate. STO is shallow. The author wanted to skip through the storyline aspects and be uber powerful from level 1 in his jaunt in SWTOR. Hence, to be more in the line of what STO tried to do. Which detracts from the "world" feel and makes it a "game".
We get it, you don't like being lead down a storyline you can't ultimately control. Again, maybe this genre isn't right for you. APB is that way ---->
I would have to say that I am surprised, I do not fully understand why you would play an MMO. Story and options for answers that affect direction/change in a massive story is what an MMO is all about. I have yet to ever see Bioware not do what they say they will do in a game, which is more then likely why the game will not be released in 2010 nor in 2011, this will come out in 2012. As far as I am concerned what I saw for TOR at E3 considering the 1 plus years left to finish the game, I was pleased. I have never seen any other MMO in the past or present that has so much done already and in place while at the same time having plenty of time avalible in order to improve and polish the game further.
Really you think it won't be out til 2012? Why did one of the devs at e3 say on multiple ocassions that it will be out in spring 2011?
"We have barred the gates, but can not hold them for long... They have taken the Bridge and the Second Hall... We can not get out. The end comes. Drums, drums in the deep. They are coming..."
Originally posted by heerobya See to me, running around being a Moisture Farmer was not my idea of "being in the Star Wars world." But being a part of great stories with great characters set in the Star Wars universe? That's Star Wars.
Even playing the Star Wars Roleplaying game (paper and imaginations) it was still participating in a fun, hand-crafted Star Wars story. I enjoy reading Star Wars books because they have such great characters and story.
Remove all of that and say "go fend for yourself in Mos Eisley and watch idiot 12 year olds make fart jokes and bunny hop around" yeah.. that's not the Star Wars I want.
Exactly. Right on the money. I think this argument that is cropping up in this thread goes back to that whole sandbox/themepark argument. Man it's getting old.
See to me, running around being a Moisture Farmer was not my idea of "being in the Star Wars world."
But being a part of great stories with great characters set in the Star Wars universe? That's Star Wars.
Even playing the Star Wars Roleplaying game (paper and imaginations) it was still participating in a fun, hand-crafted Star Wars story.
I enjoy reading Star Wars books because they have such great characters and story.
Remove all of that and say "go fend for yourself in Mos Eisley and watch idiot 12 year olds make fart jokes and bunny hop around"
yeah.. that's not the Star Wars I want.
Exactly. Right on the money. I think this argument that is cropping up in this thread goes back to that whole sandbox/themepark argument. Man it's getting old.
Agreed.
It's both that and the "gimme moar right meow! EEEEEYYYY shiny EPIXs what I have to wait to level? this is BS! F U BIOWARE" crowd coming into the conversation too.. even the OP pretty much sounded like that.
And honestly I think it is a sign of just how completely fucking retarded our future generations are going to be. Completely incapable of rational thought and self control.
See to me, running around being a Moisture Farmer was not my idea of "being in the Star Wars world."
But being a part of great stories with great characters set in the Star Wars universe? That's Star Wars.
Even playing the Star Wars Roleplaying game (paper and imaginations) it was still participating in a fun, hand-crafted Star Wars story.
I enjoy reading Star Wars books because they have such great characters and story.
Remove all of that and say "go fend for yourself in Mos Eisley and watch idiot 12 year olds make fart jokes and bunny hop around"
yeah.. that's not the Star Wars I want.
Exactly. Right on the money. I think this argument that is cropping up in this thread goes back to that whole sandbox/themepark argument. Man it's getting old.
Agreed.
It's both that and the "gimme moar right meow! EEEEEYYYY shiny EPIXs what I have to wait to level? this is BS! F U BIOWARE" crowd coming into the conversation too.. even the OP pretty much sounded like that.
And honestly I think it is a sign of just how completely fucking retarded our future generations are going to be. Completely incapable of rational thought and self control.
You seem to lack rational thought and self-control as well. Maybe we are already screwed.
You are everything that is wrong with the MMORPG genre OP.
"I don't want to read story! But it's so boring to level up grinding quests!"
"I just want to get to high level as fast as possible and show of my epics! But there is nothing to do in this game but getting epics and show off."
It's sad and pathetic.
You should be playing "Grindcraft 2.0 - The Search for More Epix" and leave the real MMORPG play to those who aren't 12 year olds hyped up on mountain dew and ritalin.
Honestly, if you aren't going at SW:TOR with the mindset of "I am going to enjoy the story and leveling experience" you really should not even play this game, or talk about it, or post about it.
Spoiled little children.
It's so sad.
I was going to post but I can't say it better than heerobya bravo. Typical mmorpg.com fail OP and Im not that big of a SW:tor fan.
See, your problem is that you suffer from a lack of imagination. While there are some people here who are number crunchers on the race to level cap and epic gear, there are also others like me who don't NEED to have the game give us a story. We want the game to give us a rich world and the things we need to create our own story.
One of the many characters I played in Star Wars Galaxies was a Master Ranger. This skillset was almost all about RP and Community, because there was nothing "uber" about them in combat, even when combined with a skills like Master Rifleman. What we could do, is kick arse at PVE, track mobs for hunting parties and set up some awesome camps for healing, shelter and socializing. I built a character, and a reputation for being an awesome Ranger, and contract hunter.
I imagined my character as an outdoors survivalist who would just walk out into the outback of the planets with no mount or vehicle. I would lead people on great safari hunting adventures, better than any quest I have ever got from an NPC. I would set up camps out in the middle of nowhere and just wait to see who would stumble over to my campfire for some healing and good conversation. I was often invited on many other adventures while doing this.
I would also use the Ranger related crafting skills I had and another crafting toon, so I could set up survival shops stocked with tents, foods, meds, camps, and other things adventurers could buy and use while out creating their own stories within the game. My homes were decorated from floor to ceiling as Hunting Lodges which were opened to the public. I often received in-game emails and tells from people who told me how awesome they looked, and thank yous.
As a contract hunter, I had a huge network of crafters as clients who would ask me to hunt down rare items they needed to make high end foods, weapons, armor and meds. I would get on the SWG forums and post ads, and I had a mailing list of people in game I would contact when I came across high-stat resources. I was one of the go-to guys on my server, and I loved it.
I didn't need a story or a scripted dialog, because I made my own adventure. I was not Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Darth Vader or any other iconic hero, and I didn't want to be.
Please do not sit back and think that just because some of us oppose the idea of scripted quests, dialog and forced story, that we suffer from any lack of imagination or the want of a good deep game to play.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Comments
This thread is awesome because it shows the ridiculous nature of both fanboys and haters so well.
To the fanboys...this article is fine,the author is giving his impressions and feelings of playing the class in honest way.He in no way was denigrating the game and severla times piointe dout how short a time he had with it.I tihnk th ebiggest point he amd eis that he personally enjoyed palying the smuggler starting area more.He is allowed to skip dialogue if he chooses,as is anyone else.In this case I'm guessing he did so because he'd already seen the dialogue system at work with the smuggler class and wanted to spend his time on th eclass mechnaics this time.
To the Haters....this article is nto a review of the whole game and it's stated it was a time lmited hands on with one class in that classes starting area.He in no way made broad extrapolations to cover the whole game as you guys are doing.I'm also betting your Favorite MMORPG would not do well if "reviewed" based on one class,in a low level area and played for 15 minutes too.
Both groups of peopel need to stop being so myopic and wait till at least most of the game's mechnaics and features are brough tto light before deciding to liek the game or hate the game.This applies to all other upcoming games too.
I love this....you people are cracking me up. You realize that skipping dialog in this game is going to be commonplace right? People want to PLAY the game. The story is and always will be tertiary at best. I'm one of those people who is HUGE about community, grouping with others, crafting, and stopping to smell the roses. I never rush to level cap. However, I also want to forge my own story and adventure, not have one rammed down my throat, multiple choice dialog included.
The order of importance for me is:
Playing the game (combat, crafting, exploring, etc)
Friends and community
Finding my own path/identity in the game. Building a model of who my character is in the game world. (semi-RP)
Story.
For some people, the game publisher's lore/story rates much lower on the scale, or is completely ignored. You might as well start getting over this fact now. If Bioware is relying on story only to make this game a hit, they may be in trouble.
You can see it in the author's post. He always loved Darth Maul, and now he wants to make his own character along that model. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have never liked any game that did my talking for me, even if it was just in some cut scenes. I guess that is because I take immersion so seriously in gaming. I am projecting a version of myself into the game world.
I am very much looking forward to trying this game, but I have some serious concerns thus far.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
If it was a "news article" then there should have been no personal opinion on it. As such, in today's media it is almost nonexistent to find someone reporting on something objectively but that's another matter. If he is paid to do reports however, it would probably be worth it for him to not skip through the stuff he is reporting on.
I think this is what most people are going to get from ToR. Its going to be a well put together MMO but if long dialogue and story isn't your thing its not going to offer anything we haven't seen before. We will be killing 10 rats or slugs or whatever. And we will end up at max level looking for PvP or raids to kill time till the next expansion comes out. What it may lack is a means to keep players during those gaps between finishing the story and end game.
As lets face it any expansion has to offer 8 more story lines so we wont be expecting a chapter every month or so. As it takes time to write the scripts get the VO done and make sure it ties in.
Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape
"I will say that for all of the story and personal achievements Bioware is hyping up in this game, killing slugs at the start just seemed like another MMO in my book."
This is the reason why so many people are sceptical about this game, including me.
I concur.
Having dialog shoved down your throat as gameplay is hardly going to be an immersive experience. I don't know about you, but I don't like the person in the passenger seat of my car grabbing the steering wheel and turning while I am driving. I also don't like games taking my character from me and forcing me to use dialog or limiting my decisions in a way that doesn't represent who my character is in my mind. This was one of the few things I didn't like about Guild Wars. The cut scenes always protrayed my character talking in some way that was NOT me, and using some lame "hero" voice.
In my opinion, immersion comes from having a character in a very rich game world full of choices that I get to make. Your mileage may vary. I don't mind story arch quests that make me assume a certain role in the adventure as long as I get to decide everything else about it.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
People who like to read and people who like to play video games are not necessarily one and the same. I'm betting a lot of people will be either speed reading or skipping the dialogue as much as possible to get into the action. This is the way it has always been in other mmos, especially when the text gets a little wordy.
Ofcourse there will be those that read every word. There are always a few of those. But if you want to read a good story pick up a book. Nothing compares to a good novel.
It would seem everyone knows what an MMO is, considering most of you tried to explain it at the very least, so I suppose that's good out of a society of apparent flamers. Did anyone even read that in the end the writer was merely skipping dialogue to continue his quests, while in the start he took particular concern for making evil-small-talk and whatnot. The dialogue you go through will become very much repetitive when you tell everyone "Give me EXP or get 'Maul'ed/Faith-choked." And when immersed in a series of quests, say, 'go kill some jedi buddy-buds' you don't want to have to return to your Emperor Potpuri to tell him that you now killed the little kids and now want to move onto some Master Jedi. You'll end up skipping that chat to continue on the part of your story you are at currently. To slash Master Windu in the face with your plus ten swordblaster-thingy is considerably more exhilarating and contributing to the story than telling someone "Give me more exp now or die again."
You don't make your own world and story just out of the dialogue either, there is all the questing and walking and killing and more walking in-between, often a considerably bigger part of your game than simple chit-chat options.
I think the article was particularly interesting, I am hoping to try out the class myself when playing the actual game. The obvious problem is; that was a demo. While it represents a fragment of the true game to be released it is missing large parts of game play, say the lack of most skills to be added.
It's empowering to see the more respectful comments and the ones not trying to explain what an MMO is to a writer of, and everyone else, of a MMORPG gamer community.
You are everything that is wrong with the MMORPG genre OP.
"I don't want to read story! But it's so boring to level up grinding quests!"
"I just want to get to high level as fast as possible and show of my epics! But there is nothing to do in this game but getting epics and show off."
It's sad and pathetic.
You should be playing "Grindcraft 2.0 - The Search for More Epix" and leave the real MMORPG play to those who aren't 12 year olds hyped up on mountain dew and ritalin.
Honestly, if you aren't going at SW:TOR with the mindset of "I am going to enjoy the story and leveling experience" you really should not even play this game, or talk about it, or post about it.
Spoiled little children.
It's so sad.
Sorry, but your playstyle is the reason they put out shallow games like Star Trek Online. We want "worlds" not just quick fix "games". Again, when I want a quick fix, I go play Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 for an hour or so, then come back to my MMOs for more depth, story and immersion.
Having dialog shoved down your throat as gameplay is hardly going to be an immersive experience. I don't know about you, but I don't like the person in the passenger seat of my car grabbing the steering wheel and turning while I am driving. I also don't like games taking my character from me and forcing me to use dialog or limiting my decisions in a way that doesn't represent who my character is in my mind. This was one of the few things I didn't like about Guild Wars. The cut scenes always protrayed my character talking in some way that was NOT me, and using some lame "hero" voice.
In my opinion, immersion comes from having a character in a very rich game world full of choices that I get to make. Your mileage may vary. I don't mind story arch quests that make me assume a certain role in the adventure as long as I get to decide everything else about it.
No offense, but maybe RPGs aren't your cup of tea. RPGs for the most part have always been interactive stories. Ones that you take a character down and through and all that. Granted, there are some openworld/sandbox games, like Elder Scrolls, but even those still had a main story. Without the story element, you basically are just playing a simulation. No thanks, give me story any day.
Worlds? Adding scripted dialog with multiple choice responses makes a regular game a "world"?
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I was going to post but I can't say it better than heerobya bravo. Typical mmorpg.com fail OP and Im not that big of a SW:tor fan.
My thoughts exactly. It's ok to like story, but let's not pretend it's something it's not.
I like to make my own story within the confines of the universe/lore available. I don't need the game to make my story for me. This is another reason I can't stand class systems in games. I don't want to be pigeonholed into some class that thousands of other players are playing too.
I realize that what I am talking about is a skill based sandbox, and that TOR isn't going to be anything near that. I have enjoyed a few theme park games as well though, so I am hoping this game will be enjoyable. For me, it won't be a long term home, that's for sure. It likely won't hold enough depth for that.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
STO doesn't have scripted dialogue with multiple choice responses...
Oh, I see, you assume I know everything about SWTOR and changed my words around to suit your argument. Let me reiterate. STO is shallow. The author wanted to skip through the storyline aspects and be uber powerful from level 1 in his jaunt in SWTOR. Hence, to be more in the line of what STO tried to do. Which detracts from the "world" feel and makes it a "game".
We get it, you don't like being lead down a storyline you can't ultimately control. Again, maybe this genre isn't right for you. APB is that way ---->
See to me, running around being a Moisture Farmer was not my idea of "being in the Star Wars world."
But being a part of great stories with great characters set in the Star Wars universe? That's Star Wars.
Even playing the Star Wars Roleplaying game (paper and imaginations) it was still participating in a fun, hand-crafted Star Wars story.
I enjoy reading Star Wars books because they have such great characters and story.
Remove all of that and say "go fend for yourself in Mos Eisley and watch idiot 12 year olds make fart jokes and bunny hop around"
yeah.. that's not the Star Wars I want.
Really you think it won't be out til 2012? Why did one of the devs at e3 say on multiple ocassions that it will be out in spring 2011?
"We have barred the gates, but can not hold them for long...
They have taken the Bridge and the Second Hall...
We can not get out. The end comes.
Drums, drums in the deep. They are coming..."
Exactly. Right on the money. I think this argument that is cropping up in this thread goes back to that whole sandbox/themepark argument. Man it's getting old.
Agreed.
It's both that and the "gimme moar right meow! EEEEEYYYY shiny EPIXs what I have to wait to level? this is BS! F U BIOWARE" crowd coming into the conversation too.. even the OP pretty much sounded like that.
And honestly I think it is a sign of just how completely fucking retarded our future generations are going to be. Completely incapable of rational thought and self control.
Well, you were warned about Mos Eisley what? 30 some odd years ago...
You didnt listen..
There were plenty of other places to go see...
hmmph
You seem to lack rational thought and self-control as well. Maybe we are already screwed.
See, your problem is that you suffer from a lack of imagination. While there are some people here who are number crunchers on the race to level cap and epic gear, there are also others like me who don't NEED to have the game give us a story. We want the game to give us a rich world and the things we need to create our own story.
One of the many characters I played in Star Wars Galaxies was a Master Ranger. This skillset was almost all about RP and Community, because there was nothing "uber" about them in combat, even when combined with a skills like Master Rifleman. What we could do, is kick arse at PVE, track mobs for hunting parties and set up some awesome camps for healing, shelter and socializing. I built a character, and a reputation for being an awesome Ranger, and contract hunter.
I imagined my character as an outdoors survivalist who would just walk out into the outback of the planets with no mount or vehicle. I would lead people on great safari hunting adventures, better than any quest I have ever got from an NPC. I would set up camps out in the middle of nowhere and just wait to see who would stumble over to my campfire for some healing and good conversation. I was often invited on many other adventures while doing this.
I would also use the Ranger related crafting skills I had and another crafting toon, so I could set up survival shops stocked with tents, foods, meds, camps, and other things adventurers could buy and use while out creating their own stories within the game. My homes were decorated from floor to ceiling as Hunting Lodges which were opened to the public. I often received in-game emails and tells from people who told me how awesome they looked, and thank yous.
As a contract hunter, I had a huge network of crafters as clients who would ask me to hunt down rare items they needed to make high end foods, weapons, armor and meds. I would get on the SWG forums and post ads, and I had a mailing list of people in game I would contact when I came across high-stat resources. I was one of the go-to guys on my server, and I loved it.
I didn't need a story or a scripted dialog, because I made my own adventure. I was not Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Darth Vader or any other iconic hero, and I didn't want to be.
Please do not sit back and think that just because some of us oppose the idea of scripted quests, dialog and forced story, that we suffer from any lack of imagination or the want of a good deep game to play.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.