Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
The problem with "Solo-friendly"
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
Years ago, I would be red faced arguing that most gameplay should be grouped and solo gameplay was just to fill in the time between groups. Prettty much every argument being made for the importance of grouping, I would have been in agreement with it.
But that was before the gaming community became what it is today. It's awful. I see more bad behavior in a day now then I saw in 4 months before. So it's about 120 times worse.
You can't get rid of them either. Bad players fail ther way to success in ez-mode games, so lack of brains and skill are no impediment. No one cares about their server reputation anymore because there are so many doucebags you can't keep track.
That being the case, I now favor games that have a healthy solo play option. I'm not looking to eliminate grouping, but I need to be able to enjoy the solo side of the game because my patience with immature little dirtbags runs thin.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Ok, but mmo's do allow me to play solo therefore they are a perfect choice.
Because of that one could turn it around and say "if you desire to have mostly grouping then mmo's might not be for you as they usually allow for a lot of solo play".
Of course that's not true as there are mmo's where groups can heavily add to the play experience.
But most mmo's that are coming out seem to offer one the choice to solo.
And it has nothing to do with taking the world alone but everything to do with being able to take some of the world alone.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I did not read OP wall of txt(TL;DR) but i think i know what he have write up there.
But your reply is prolly very good answer to all this complaining about solo play in mmo and i agree 100%.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I steer clear from MMOs with heavy focus on grouping, I like playing solo and be forced to group the least possible, always with people I know (from RL if possible) in that cases.
why?
the next time when you play a MMO look to the 10 guys on your right. then the 10 guys on your leftt. all of them are inmensely immature,annoying idiots. i wouldnt even talk to them in RL, why should I have to deal with them ?
Ive same experience i solo mainly becouse of behavior of others or my own behavior dont matter it just seems harder and harder these days team up with some nice decent guys.
Sometimes at first it seems a nice group of people but after a while they show same behavior i dont realy like i wonder whats wrong with me hahaha.
So i solo mostly for more then year now in Darkfall and still have blast.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Changes in the MMO landscape to allow Solo options come from one of two directions. Either business plan wise to increase revenue or player request to offer alternatives for play styles to keep existing player base happy. I seriously doubt there is any X-Files-ish hidden agenda to it, it is either based on keeping people playing or expanding the player base. Whether people want to admit it or not the investors in these games might not give two craps about what the players want. It is about getting a return on the investment, so offering this solo option keeps a steady influx of newly intersted parties coming in that might end up being a long lasting dedicated consumer.
Myself I like the option for a solo alternative once n a while, MMO doesn't always mean you have to interact with the other players. Just like in real life, I can choose to go to Burger King and get myself a sandwich alone. I am not forced to stand out front of that store and start yelling, "HEY ANYONE NEED ONE MORE FOR THE NUMBER 3 COMBO?". It's all about options.
END OF LINE_
~V
Well, actually MMORPG = Massively Multiplayer... oop, there you go, you ARE playing a multiplayer game. That's the point, it's not a single player game, and while I agree that there should be some soloing for when you don't have a lot of time, it should never remove the need to group.
The vast majority of MMORPG's are based on the old AD&D build of having a team of people working through adventures, fighting through dungeons and taking on powerful monsters. Together. If you're making that sort of game, I expect a focus on group play as that's what the whole RPG theme is based on. Hell, even single player RPG's such as Dragon Age or Mass Effect have you use multiple characters.
However, there are certain genres that would be better off more 'solo-friendly', such as the whole Superhero genre. Superman always worked alone, Batman in most cases, Spiderman, etc. So there might be some genres that are solo-friendly, but for most RPG's it should have those group basics.
right.
but in no way, shape or form does it limit you to "how" you play with others.
If we are talking about a large living world then why can't a person be minding his own business, get a drop, another person comes up to you and congratulates you on that drop as they have been looking for it and lo and behold you give it to them. Or if you want "sell it".
Or someone can have questions and I can spend time explaing things to them.
Or someone might be new and I give them some stuff to help them and then give them a tour of the world as only a higher lvl player can. Then I go back to soloing.
Or I am soloing and I hear that someone needs a large group quest to be done for their advancement so I drop everything, go to help and then go back to soloing.
So sure I've grouped and interacted and now I can go back to solo play. And I've made a positive impact on the world and its inhabitants.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
so many replies in this thread not only saying WoW gonna die but MMOs as a whole...
community is what makes a MMO great, without community its really just bad and time consuming games, with rather far between highlights...highlights you wont get in the same way if the game is builded around solo play.
you dont have to like a community as a whole, but should be able to find a group of players you can talk with in just about any MMO, if not I d expect you set too high expectations....higher than you would to ppl you meet in real life.
I'm sorry, the last time I checked MMORPG's were based/focused around the social aspect and the roleplaying aspect.
Now, because I don't feel the need to party at every single corner and liek to assume a certain role, it doesn't make me anti-social.
If I want to assume the role of my character, whatever the role maybe, I will.
So, who the fuck are you tell me "you're not to supposed be the lone hero fighting epic monsters"?
"You're not supposed to"
"MMO's are"
Grouping is a aspect that came along with the MMORPG genre, not what they solely focus on.
Never even mentioned being able to take on the world alone......ah well, not a bad idea.
"We got rid of the trinity." How'd you do that? "Now everyone can heal." Sounds like you just took the mechanic and spread it thin. "Well no, there's one class that can do it better than others." I see, so they're healers. "No. They're.." -mind asplode-
There is no problem with solo-friendly mmorpgs. Where the problem lies is how content is delivered. While leveling, grouping is often punished through game mechanics, such as experience split. If I can solo a mob worth 5k xps why would I group up and kill it for less xps?
The incentive to group is often not there, with the exception of certain quests, dungeons or endgame activities. This also reduces the social aspect of the game.
Asheron's Call had an extremely intuitive system to handle solo vs. group play (not initially mind you). You could solo just about any aspect of AC, with the exception of a few areas. However, when they changed how experience was split among groups, you say people going out of their way to form an xp party when entering dungeons (like the old Lugian Citadels). Not only that, but there was an extremely strong player driven economy too. People used to gather at the portal hub near Arwic and spend hours upon hours trading SiK's, Shards, Rare pieces of Gear, etc.
Mind you, I haven't played AC in about 8 years, and I know things changed, but in the early days there was a strong sense of community even within the structure of a solo game.
Grouping in most mmorpgs I have played isn't so much an incentive as it is a requirement. You either had to have a group to level, or you have to have to group to take on dungeons, or you have to have a group to see endgame content. The "incentive" is that you have to, not because you want to or because it's more fun.
MMORPGs are far too focused on combat anymore. Yes, I love going out and fighting various things throughout the gameworld, but things like crafting and player economy are sterile side attractions.
Asheron's Call predates WoW by 5 years, and you could be the lone hero badass and could take on giant epic battles alone. I understand the game wasn't heavily advertised, but perhaps a little research before you make broad, general and incorrect statements.
If people do not want to be able to solo then why do the games that can be soloed have better populations than forced grouping games? Why do games continue to "dumb down" content to make it more solo firendly if this isnt what people want?The forced grouping guys can still group to do the content but that isnt enough, they think everyone should be forced to group. Give me a game where I can solo end game content or play with a friend if I "choose" and I will be as happy as a clam. No gear checks, not epeen swinging moron "taking charge" telling everyone how to play their class. Maybe thats the problem, too many experts find themselves running out of deciples they can explain their upberness to.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
I disagree and obviously I meant a regular Multiplayer game where a Massive Multiplayer Roleplaying Game goes beyond what a regular Multiplayer game offers. As said if I would be hung on a need to group I hang out in many of the multiplayer games I also enjoy, MMORPG's offer me more and should provide me with the freedom to play how I desire to play it.
Also I still group to overcome some powerfull creature, just a lot less then I used to do, which has little to do with the game but has everytyhing to do with how people these day group as I and many others have already stated in this topic. I can also name allot more singleplayer RPG's that don't involve having multible character then the few that do have it.
I find your example of superheroes sort of wrong cause we all know that apart from the movies there are tons of books/comics that show them working in groups as teams.
But as said also many times group features should always be a part of MMORPG's, but as a choice, it use to work just fine where it was fun to group, just today it's a different story.
In the end my ideal MMORPG would be "Group + Solo Friendly" you simply can not exclude any of these 2 from a MMORPG in my opinion.
Is it really important WHY you like to play the games you do?
You like Solo friendly games. You don't have to tell me WHY. The fact that you like this is enough for me.
I like group friendly games. Is WHY I like them really important to you?
I kind of doubt it.
What seems petty and silly to me, is insisting you're "right" about the style you prefer, solo or grouping.
The REASON I like solo friendly games is very superior to the REASONS you like group friendly games, so I am right and you are wrong, and you must like SOLO games if you don't want me to think you are petty and silly!
THAT is what is petty and silly.
We like games because they are fun. I'm not like you, you're not like me, we like different games.
How does not being a clone of you, make me petty or silly?
I'm petty and silly because I like to have fun playing video games that are different from the games you like?
Please read your post again, and understand it makes no sense.
I want "choice".
Therefore EVERYONE must play a solo friendly game, the sort of game I LIKE, even the the people that prefer group friendly games.
you want "choice" so EVERYONE has to play the sort of game YOU like?
You do realize I can say the EXACT same thing about "forced grouping" games right?
You CAN solo in a forced grouping game. There is NO MMORPG ever been made that stops you from soloing, even if it's a bit slower than grouping. So you have a CHOICE, why don't you just solo in my group friendly game?
You're just explaining why you like solo friendly games.
No one thinks you should be "forced" to group. EVERYONE, even the "forced grouping" guys, think you should go play solo friendly games if that's what you like.
But you seem to think NO ONE should play group friendly games.
Why?
"Group friendly" or "solo friendly" depends on what you do for the majority of the game to the level cap.
If you solo 75% of the time, because it's just as efficient as grouping, or almost as efficient as grouping, and 25% of the time you need to hop in a group, complete a quest, get an item, and then it's back to solo play?
I'd say that was VERY solo friendly.
If you mean that at ANY level, level 1 all the way to the cap, there are areas that give SIGNIFICANTLY higher XP for groups, and that grouping will get you to the cap, MUCH MUCH faster than solo? I'd say that was group friendly.
That makes no sense whatsoever. So in order to be "friendly" towards grouping the game must give huge rewards for grouping? No i'm sorry but at that point its not simply grouping friendly but solo-hating .
A game can perfectly be both solo and grouping friendly by doing exactly what you consider as solo-friendly. A game is friendly towards a mechanic IF the game does not favor an other mechanic and lets the player decide what to do without being penalysed for his choice. So i'd consider a game which rewards solo'ing and grouping almost as much as quite friendly towards both. Off course grouping should be slightly more rewarding to compensate for potential time wasted to group. (and thus depending on the amount of players needed to do the grouped content the increase can vary).
But saying the game needs to make it MUCH MUCH easier to progress through if you group to be grouping friendly is just silly.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
All games are group friendly. Just because something can be soloed doesnt mean it has to be. On the other hand mobs that take a 5 man group to kill cannot be soloed. For instance, some people are complaning that LOTRO is scaling content to allow solo players to complete the book quests. This in no way keeps people from grouping to do the quests but yet many complain about it just the same. Why?
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
I think Vanguard had a good balance. You could solo to 50 and if you wanted some good gear along the way, crafting would be a viable option to the pve loot you couldn't obtain unless you grouped.
ok, but this is where we are having the disconnect.
If I solo 75% of the time because I want to and it is as efficient as grouping then sure, it's solo friendly but that doesn't preclude someone from getting a group and grouping, getting good xp and rewards and having the desired group experience that they want.
you keep focusing on the "maximizing of xp" and if one can solo it then why group. I just don't understand that. If you can get great xp, sometimes better sometimes not, grouping and you like to group then why solo? You can group up and never solo.
Cruma tower, giant's fortress, forge of the gods, tower of insolence, lower area in sea of spores, Antharas' lair, Catacombs and necropoli and many more, all completely group friendly and good drops.
I"m trying to tell you that along the levels in Lineage 2 there are areas that give great xp but you need a group and areas that give great xp for solo players. I would say that the group areas might give better rewards for drops and mats but there are solo/duo areas that give other types of great rewards such as fire/wind/ etc stones.
This is one of the reasons I think L2 is a far superior game in terms of "world" and in terms of reason to play.
You don't grab quests, run out, do them, come back and grab more. You have a whole world that offers possibilities. Both group and solo friendly. Not one or the other but both. If you want to group and enjoy the safety in numbers then there are areas you can go.
There are very good reasons to solo but even better reasons to group, especially because it is an ffa pvp game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I completely agree.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Exactly. Sometimes I don't have the time to group up and play for over an hour. Sometimes I would like to just log in and play for an hour and solo some quick progress. Why is this such a bad option to have in the game? I feel that if you are too far either way the game will fail. I think it's great to have both options to be able to fully advance your character. Not everyone can spend 30 hours a week raiding for epic loot
Hang on a sec... hmmm, nope, nothing about it being a Massively Multiplayer Online Grouping Game. Doesn't say anything about Soloing either. It says GAME. People play games the way they want to, because THEY - not you - have opened an account for themselves.