eh the combat dosnt look that slow, besides it's still in beta and if enough people complain they should change it..
umm this is what we are trying to prevent. We want to play FFXIV, not WoW or any other twitch based MMORPG for that matter. If we wanted to play one of those games, we would. FFXIV is different, and thank god for that. The people complaining are the same people who are going to buy it and quit the second Cataclysm launches anyways, better to stick to a loyal niche playerbase than to try and please 12 million people who have no interest in your game in the first place.
^ This
So basically what you are trying to say is that if the customers are not satisfied with the product they shouldn't do anything about it and leave it like that ?... I like that marketing idea, no community feedback.
No, what I'm trying to say is that FFXIV has it's own identity. It isn't trying to please everyone, and if you don't like it, simply play something else. Final Fantasy, and FFXI specifically, has a very large fanbase that likes FFXIV just the way it is, and we don't want it changed.
We are the people who will continue to play FFXIV after the dust has settled, so there is no reason to alienate us by changing the game to suit the needs of people who only picked up FFXIV because it was the next big MMO release. The customer base for FFXIV aren't asking for changes, the players who have no interest in Final Fantasy are, and thus should not be listened to.
I am just saying that the guy you quoted said "If enough people complaint they should change it" and you took that statement as a bad thing when theres nothing wrong with it, and believe me, you may like this "loyal niche playerbase" of lets say 3 million, but the developers would love to have a 12 million playerbase that don't care about the game but they still pay the monthly sub.
I know that FF have a big fanbase and I know that FFXI was a good MMO. I am not arguing that, I am just exposing how simple minded your logic is, you should care more about the game and make the game community grow, if a little change like speeding up the combat can bring more people into the game would be a good thing not a bad thing.
I would argue his logic is actually more thought-out than yours is. Neither of you are being simple-minded, you just have different views on business practices.
What the most recent poster is presuming, I believe, is that his opponent is suggesting the complaints should be ignored BECAUSE they "are a bad thing". I don't believe that was his point. The point he is making is that the niche within the beta-testing community who ARE suggesting that combat be changed are the very same community who will inevitably leave the game. He is suggesting that SE will be taking a risk by altering combat-speed that will risk losing fans from one of two communities: The Short-Term subscribers and the Long-Term subscribers.
Short-Time subscribers are incredibly common in MMOs. Box sales are often quadruple the remaining player base post-release month (I have no source for this, merely presuming based on current sub numbers of games that sold several million box compies). That said, if SE were to accomodate to the people in Beta who requested combat change, and increased the speed, they would be put in a position with the following risks:
1) Alienating the players who DID NOT WANT that change (in this circumstance, this group is considered to be the FFXI/FFXIV fans)
2) Accomodating to fans who WILL NOT be long-time subscribers, at the expense of those who will.
Now if they did not make the change, the following risks exist:
1) Alientating a player base who will likely leave shortly after release.
While both sides of the arguement seen above make sense, it would seem to me that the more logical one is the FF-Fan argument. Changing the combat speed because of the feedback from a short-lived community risks alienating a community that would more than cover the losses of the short-term communities business over time. So if SE did indeed speed up the combat they'd be walking a shaky road. One where the increased sales they do gain will be from individuals who will not be as valuable to them as those that will leave the game if the speed of combat is increased. Short-term communities will usually buy the game anyway, to try it out. Even if people from beta say that combat is slow, people will want to see for themselves and will probably buy the game, this is the nature of MMO sales.
$.02
Someday we'll all look back on the age of computers - and lol.
eh the combat dosnt look that slow, besides it's still in beta and if enough people complain they should change it..
umm this is what we are trying to prevent. We want to play FFXIV, not WoW or any other twitch based MMORPG for that matter. If we wanted to play one of those games, we would. FFXIV is different, and thank god for that. The people complaining are the same people who are going to buy it and quit the second Cataclysm launches anyways, better to stick to a loyal niche playerbase than to try and please 12 million people who have no interest in your game in the first place.
^ This
So basically what you are trying to say is that if the customers are not satisfied with the product they shouldn't do anything about it and leave it like that ?... I like that marketing idea, no community feedback.
No, what I'm trying to say is that FFXIV has it's own identity. It isn't trying to please everyone, and if you don't like it, simply play something else. Final Fantasy, and FFXI specifically, has a very large fanbase that likes FFXIV just the way it is, and we don't want it changed.
We are the people who will continue to play FFXIV after the dust has settled, so there is no reason to alienate us by changing the game to suit the needs of people who only picked up FFXIV because it was the next big MMO release. The customer base for FFXIV aren't asking for changes, the players who have no interest in Final Fantasy are, and thus should not be listened to.
I am just saying that the guy you quoted said "If enough people complaint they should change it" and you took that statement as a bad thing when theres nothing wrong with it, and believe me, you may like this "loyal niche playerbase" of lets say 3 million, but the developers would love to have a 12 million playerbase that don't care about the game but they still pay the monthly sub.
I know that FF have a big fanbase and I know that FFXI was a good MMO. I am not arguing that, I am just exposing how simple minded your logic is, you should care more about the game and make the game community grow, if a little change like speeding up the combat can bring more people into the game would be a good thing not a bad thing.
they did speed up the combat quite a bit. it doesnt need to be any faster. i might as well play tera if it gets much faster where it just becaomes a hack and slash
eh the combat dosnt look that slow, besides it's still in beta and if enough people complain they should change it..
umm this is what we are trying to prevent. We want to play FFXIV, not WoW or any other twitch based MMORPG for that matter. If we wanted to play one of those games, we would. FFXIV is different, and thank god for that. The people complaining are the same people who are going to buy it and quit the second Cataclysm launches anyways, better to stick to a loyal niche playerbase than to try and please 12 million people who have no interest in your game in the first place.
^ This
So basically what you are trying to say is that if the customers are not satisfied with the product they shouldn't do anything about it and leave it like that ?... I like that marketing idea, no community feedback.
No, what I'm trying to say is that FFXIV has it's own identity. It isn't trying to please everyone, and if you don't like it, simply play something else. Final Fantasy, and FFXI specifically, has a very large fanbase that likes FFXIV just the way it is, and we don't want it changed.
We are the people who will continue to play FFXIV after the dust has settled, so there is no reason to alienate us by changing the game to suit the needs of people who only picked up FFXIV because it was the next big MMO release. The customer base for FFXIV aren't asking for changes, the players who have no interest in Final Fantasy are, and thus should not be listened to.
I am just saying that the guy you quoted said "If enough people complaint they should change it" and you took that statement as a bad thing when theres nothing wrong with it, and believe me, you may like this "loyal niche playerbase" of lets say 3 million, but the developers would love to have a 12 million playerbase that don't care about the game but they still pay the monthly sub.
I know that FF have a big fanbase and I know that FFXI was a good MMO. I am not arguing that, I am just exposing how simple minded your logic is, you should care more about the game and make the game community grow, if a little change like speeding up the combat can bring more people into the game would be a good thing not a bad thing.
I would argue his logic is actually more thought-out than yours is. Neither of you are being simple-minded, you just have different views on business practices.
What the most recent poster is presuming, I believe, is that his opponent is suggesting the complaints should be ignored BECAUSE they "are a bad thing". I don't believe that was his point. The point he is making is that the niche within the beta-testing community who ARE suggesting that combat be changed are the very same community who will inevitably leave the game. He is suggesting that SE will be taking a risk by altering combat-speed that will risk losing fans from one of two communities: The Short-Term subscribers and the Long-Term subscribers.
Short-Time subscribers are incredibly common in MMOs. Box sales are often quadruple the remaining player base post-release month (I have no source for this, merely presuming based on current sub numbers of games that sold several million box compies). That said, if SE were to accomodate to the people in Beta who requested combat change, and increased the speed, they would be put in a position with the following risks:
1) Alienating the players who DID NOT WANT that change (in this circumstance, this group is considered to be the FFXI/FFXIV fans)
2) Accomodating to fans who WILL NOT be long-time subscribers, at the expense of those who will.
Now if they did not make the change, the following risks exist:
1) Alientating a player base who will likely leave shortly after release.
While both sides of the arguement seen above make sense, it would seem to me that the more logical one is the FF-Fan argument. Changing the combat speed because of the feedback from a short-lived community risks alienating a community that would more than cover the losses of the short-term communities business over time. So if SE did indeed speed up the combat they'd be walking a shaky road. One where the increased sales they do gain will be from individuals who will not be as valuable to them as those that will leave the game if the speed of combat is increased. Short-term communities will usually buy the game anyway, to try it out. Even if people from beta say that combat is slow, people will want to see for themselves and will probably buy the game, this is the nature of MMO sales.
$.02
That is precisely what I meant by my post. SE has already sped up combat a bit since the alpha version, so they are obviously listening to the beta testers. At this point, the people complaining about combat speed and no jumping/swimming are not people who want to play FFXIV. Even if SE speeds up combat to WoW-like speeds, and throws jumping and swimming in there to please this group, they will just find something else to hate the game for because THEY NEVER LIKED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
There are billions of games out there, each of them offering different things. FFXIV has caught my eye because the developers have implemented design choices that I find favorable. If they hadn't? Well instead of demanding that they change the game to suit my needs, I would probably just move on to another game.
eh the combat dosnt look that slow, besides it's still in beta and if enough people complain they should change it..
umm this is what we are trying to prevent. We want to play FFXIV, not WoW or any other twitch based MMORPG for that matter. If we wanted to play one of those games, we would. FFXIV is different, and thank god for that. The people complaining are the same people who are going to buy it and quit the second Cataclysm launches anyways, better to stick to a loyal niche playerbase than to try and please 12 million people who have no interest in your game in the first place.
^ This
So basically what you are trying to say is that if the customers are not satisfied with the product they shouldn't do anything about it and leave it like that ?... I like that marketing idea, no community feedback.
No, what I'm trying to say is that FFXIV has it's own identity. It isn't trying to please everyone, and if you don't like it, simply play something else. Final Fantasy, and FFXI specifically, has a very large fanbase that likes FFXIV just the way it is, and we don't want it changed.
We are the people who will continue to play FFXIV after the dust has settled, so there is no reason to alienate us by changing the game to suit the needs of people who only picked up FFXIV because it was the next big MMO release. The customer base for FFXIV aren't asking for changes, the players who have no interest in Final Fantasy are, and thus should not be listened to.
I am just saying that the guy you quoted said "If enough people complaint they should change it" and you took that statement as a bad thing when theres nothing wrong with it, and believe me, you may like this "loyal niche playerbase" of lets say 3 million, but the developers would love to have a 12 million playerbase that don't care about the game but they still pay the monthly sub.
I know that FF have a big fanbase and I know that FFXI was a good MMO. I am not arguing that, I am just exposing how simple minded your logic is, you should care more about the game and make the game community grow, if a little change like speeding up the combat can bring more people into the game would be a good thing not a bad thing.
If I was a game developer, I would certainly want those 12 million subscriptions too. But how well has that worked out for the last few MMOs that released? How many subs does Age of Conan, or Warhammer Online, or Lord of the Rings Online have? Not even close to 12 million, and not even close to the amount that FFXI held for over 7 years.
It is unreasonable to try to harness World of Warcraft's playerbase because they already have a game that they like. By sticking to a design philosophy that SE knows will at least attract ex-FFXI players, and by broadening their audience a tiny bit, FFXIV will have more than enough players to make profit and pay for its own game updates.
I would argue his logic is actually more thought-out than yours is. Neither of you are being simple-minded, you just have different views on business practices.
What the most recent poster is presuming, I believe, is that his opponent is suggesting the complaints should be ignored BECAUSE they "are a bad thing". I don't believe that was his point. The point he is making is that the niche within the beta-testing community who ARE suggesting that combat be changed are the very same community who will inevitably leave the game. He is suggesting that SE will be taking a risk by altering combat-speed that will risk losing fans from one of two communities: The Short-Term subscribers and the Long-Term subscribers.
Short-Time subscribers are incredibly common in MMOs. Box sales are often quadruple the remaining player base post-release month (I have no source for this, merely presuming based on current sub numbers of games that sold several million box compies). That said, if SE were to accomodate to the people in Beta who requested combat change, and increased the speed, they would be put in a position with the following risks:
1) Alienating the players who DID NOT WANT that change (in this circumstance, this group is considered to be the FFXI/FFXIV fans)
2) Accomodating to fans who WILL NOT be long-time subscribers, at the expense of those who will.
Now if they did not make the change, the following risks exist:
1) Alientating a player base who will likely leave shortly after release.
While both sides of the arguement seen above make sense, it would seem to me that the more logical one is the FF-Fan argument. Changing the combat speed because of the feedback from a short-lived community risks alienating a community that would more than cover the losses of the short-term communities business over time. So if SE did indeed speed up the combat they'd be walking a shaky road. One where the increased sales they do gain will be from individuals who will not be as valuable to them as those that will leave the game if the speed of combat is increased. Short-term communities will usually buy the game anyway, to try it out. Even if people from beta say that combat is slow, people will want to see for themselves and will probably buy the game, this is the nature of MMO sales.
$.02
Very well thought-out post. I'll take it a step further to show that SE has already made the decision on which group to follow.
They made the decision to make the races identical to FFXI so that FFXI members could smoothly transition to FFXIV. They also allowed FFXI members to transfer their name from FFXI to FFXIV. A lot of people who were long time FFXI subscribers got priority in terms of alpha testing.
SE is very aware that the only reason FFXIV exists is because of the devotion of 500k subscribers that stuck with them through thick and thin. Though SE wants mainstream success, it will never be at the expense of alienating their loyal/rabid/devoted fanbase.
I happen to be in that group and am glad that the devs are keeping it close to the vest and not changing FFXIV at the whim of finicky subscribers, that in the end, will not be there when it matters.
Actaully FF XI subs have dropped a fair bit since the last measurement. Reports are now showing it at 350k (http://www.mmodata.net/).
Also it is complete bull they are aiming FF XIV in favour of XI players. They have stated they are a priority, but not the whole target audience. The aim of XIV is for it to be more popular than XI. Unless the game changes, then all they will get are the XI players. So they'll end up with the same number of subs, but split over two games. Great business strategy.
As for someone who said they have speeded combat up a fair bit. No they haven't, and is shown in many a recent video. If they had, the previous incarnation must have been a slide show.
In pretty much conviced FF XI players are living in an isolated bubble, thinking MMOs haven't progressed since the late 90s. They certainly don't seem to have much experience of what's acceptable these days.
Actaully FF XI subs have dropped a fair bit since the last measurement. Reports are now showing it at 350k (http://www.mmodata.net/).
Also it is complete bull they are aiming FF XIV in favour of XI players. They have stated they are a prioiry, but not the whole target audience. The aim of XIV is for it to be more popular than XI. Unless the game changes, then all they will get are the XI players. So they'll end up with the same number of subs, but split over two games. Great business strategy.
As for someone who said they have speeded combat up a fair bit. No they haven't, and is shown in many a video. If they had, the previous incarnation must have been a slide show.
In pretty much conviced FF XI players are living in am isolated bubble, thinking MMO haven't progressed since the late 90s. They certainly don't seem to have much experience of what's acceptable these days.
What's acceptable these days is purely subjective. What's acceptable these days are complete failures. FFXI has 350k subs which is more than LotRO, AoC, and Warhammer.
If FFXIV becomes more like "modern MMO's", or as you say "what is acceptible these days" then it will be a flop just like the rest of em. The market needs something different, they dont' need another copy paste job.
Actaully FF XI subs have dropped a fair bit since the last measurement. Reports are now showing it at 350k (http://www.mmodata.net/).
Also it is complete bull they are aiming FF XIV in favour of XI players. They have stated they are a prioiry, but not the whole target audience. The aim of XIV is for it to be more popular than XI. Unless the game changes, then all they will get are the XI players. So they'll end up with the same number of subs, but split over two games. Great business strategy.
As for someone who said they have speeded combat up a fair bit. No they haven't, and is shown in many a video. If they had, the previous incarnation must have been a slide show.
In pretty much conviced FF XI players are living in am isolated bubble, thinking MMO haven't progressed since the late 90s. They certainly don't seem to have much experience of what's acceptable these days.
What's acceptable these days is purely subjective. What's acceptable these days are complete failures. FFXI has 350k subs which is more than LotRO, AoC, and Warhammer.
If FFXIV becomes more like "modern MMO's", or as you say "what is acceptible these days" then it will be a flop just like the rest of em. The market needs something different, they dont' need another copy paste job.
350k world wide, most of which are in Asia. 300k'ish for Asia is poor. LotRO, AoC and Warhammer have a lesser global coverage. They are also western design and most definitely LotRO is far more popular than FF XI, in the west. Chances are AoC and Warhammer are as well, with a lesser margin of course. Anyway so what, its still on the decline, which was the point of the correction when 500k was stated.
FF XIV will flop in the state people have seen so far. What has been seen at E3 and through other demonstration is an extremely dated game, with advanced graphics (for a MMO). Graphics do not make it a quality product. So far it fails in every area, but that one.
Actaully FF XI subs have dropped a fair bit since the last measurement. Reports are now showing it at 350k (http://www.mmodata.net/).
Also it is complete bull they are aiming FF XIV in favour of XI players. They have stated they are a prioiry, but not the whole target audience. The aim of XIV is for it to be more popular than XI. Unless the game changes, then all they will get are the XI players. So they'll end up with the same number of subs, but split over two games. Great business strategy.
As for someone who said they have speeded combat up a fair bit. No they haven't, and is shown in many a video. If they had, the previous incarnation must have been a slide show.
In pretty much conviced FF XI players are living in am isolated bubble, thinking MMO haven't progressed since the late 90s. They certainly don't seem to have much experience of what's acceptable these days.
What's acceptable these days is purely subjective. What's acceptable these days are complete failures. FFXI has 350k subs which is more than LotRO, AoC, and Warhammer.
If FFXIV becomes more like "modern MMO's", or as you say "what is acceptible these days" then it will be a flop just like the rest of em. The market needs something different, they dont' need another copy paste job.
350k world wide, most of which are in Asia. 300k'ish for Asia is poor. LoTRO, AoC and Warhammer have a lesser global coverage. They are also western design and most defintly LoTRO is far more popular than FF XI, in the west. Chances are AoC and Warhammer are as well, with a lesser margin of course. Anyway so what, its still on the decline, which was the point of the correction when 500k was stated.
FF XIV will flop in the state people have seen so far. What has been seen at E3 and through other demonstration is an extremely dated game, with advanced graphics (for a MMO). Graphics do not make it a quality product. So far it fails in every area, but that one.
123,000+ Pre-Orders for FFXIV for PC and PS3 in NORTH AMERICA alone. I don't doubt that if you factor Asia and Europe, you will likely have 400k+ pre-orders before the game releases.
For many of us, FFXIV becoming mainstream is a bad thing. Mainstream means lowest common denominator, It means it has to be so watered down in order for it to cater to everyone.
If FFXIV has 500k subs for 8 years just like FFXI did, then by all standards, that's a huge success. No other game other than wow can claim the same.
Im not worried abuot FFXIV's success. I'm only worried that it will be less successful because people who have no intention of playing it for a long period of time are trying to change it and make it into those other MMO's which were less successful.
Luckily, SE will not listen to the jump/swim crowd. Even if they do, it will be years down the line where it won't even matter. And as a realisic fact, the game is due out in two months. It doesn't hve jump, it doesn't have swimming. The combat is going to be very close to what it is now in beta. the FFXI crowd has won out.
Simpy because its Final Fanaty. Anyone would be a fool to predict poor box sales. From what's been demonstrated and the vast majroty of negative responces as a result, it won't be retaining subscriptions. Well at least new ones above XI fanbois.
It will be interesting to see if they lift the NDA before launch, or have an open beta.
Mainstream is also what SE are claiming they are aiming for, so claiming FF XI players want it to remain niche is pretty moot. The question though, is will they actually achieve it? Highly unlikely!
Sorry, but making something substanded just to be different is a joke. More likely they are just poor at designing MMOs.
You know there are other MMOs aside from FF XI/XIV and WoW? Many are also quite different from WoW, while much more advanced in design from what we know of FF XIV.
the combat is slower then alpha thats all Ill say even if alot dont want to belive it it's true combat is slower then alpha. it's basicly a waiting game
Sorry, but making something substanded just to be different is a joke. More likely they are just poor at designing MMOs.
You know there are other MMOs aside from FF XI/XIV and WoW? Many are also quite different from WoW, while much more advanced in design from what we know of FF XIV.
the combat is slower then alpha thats all Ill say even if alot dont want to belive it it's true combat is slower then alpha. it's basicly a waiting game
you can keep attacking as long as you have stam so why lie? now if oyuw as having input lag then ye aic an see it being slow ><
Simpy because its Final Fanaty. Anyone would be a fool to predict poor box sales. From what's been demonstrated and the vast majroty of negative responces as a result, it won't be retaining subscriptions. Well at least new ones above XI fanbois.
It will be interesting to see if they lift the NDA before launch, or have an open beta.
Mainstream is also what SE are claiming they are aiming for, so claiming FF XI players want it to remain niche is pretty moot. The question though, is will they actually achieve it? Highly unlikely!
to be honest it sonly vocal on here go to gamefaqs boards hardly any negativity also the beta forums dont have alot of negativity onit most people actully like it so far besides controls
So far the combat does look relatively slow but classes like pugalist seem to have a somewhat fast attack speed. In the long run its FF be glad it isnt turn based.
So far the combat does look relatively slow but classes like pugalist seem to have a somewhat fast attack speed. In the long run its FF be glad it isnt turn based.
true with ff xiv all i was hoping was abit faster combat than 11 and i enjoyed 11 combat system Whm was fun got hard at times tho.
i like swimming not that i've ever liked/played world of warcraft but waters nice xD but yes- agreeing that se is doing a very good job of keeping it unique. BUT I LIKE WATER XD
As a brd, you can't even spare 1 sec from the screen. Seriously, ask around.
As a cor, no you can't
As a blm, remove your hand from the keyboard for 2 sec and you are DEAD. (beside the sleep rest trick)
As a DRK, yes you can just leave your drk slash all he want, but what about STUN!!! what about absorb and die when you gullotine the thing. (nyzul 20 here....)
as a dnc, nin, keep your shadow up every 3 sec.or stay alive...
As a pld, you are pretty free. I can go have a drink and come back and still tanking the monster....
As a healer, if you want your tank to die sure. RDM are super busy.
As a brd, you can't even spare 1 sec from the screen. Seriously, ask around.
As a cor, no you can't
As a blm, remove your hand from the keyboard for 2 sec and you are DEAD. (beside the sleep rest trick)
As a DRK, yes you can just leave your drk slash all he want, but what about STUN!!! what about absorb and die when you gullotine the thing. (nyzul 20 here....)
as a dnc, nin, keep your shadow up every 3 sec.or stay alive...
As a pld, you are pretty free. I can go have a drink and come back and still tanking the monster....
As a healer, if you want your tank to die sure. RDM are super busy.
As a brd, you can't even spare 1 sec from the screen. Seriously, ask around.
As a cor, no you can't
As a blm, remove your hand from the keyboard for 2 sec and you are DEAD. (beside the sleep rest trick)
As a DRK, yes you can just leave your drk slash all he want, but what about STUN!!! what about absorb and die when you gullotine the thing. (nyzul 20 here....)
as a dnc, nin, keep your shadow up every 3 sec.or stay alive...
As a pld, you are pretty free. I can go have a drink and come back and still tanking the monster....
As a healer, if you want your tank to die sure. RDM are super busy.
I don't find PLD free at all. If you want to maximize your group productivity you need to pay attention and constantly rotate your skills or you will lose hate in a hurry. Not as demanding as a NIN tank but still. The only class I find relaxing and you can afk without getting notice is MNK heheheh.
I loved my NIN/Theif Combo, I had to always be on the ball for damage chains. And that combat was slower than the "normal" current MMO. From what I have seen and hear it has picked up speed up somewhat. It should be really fun higher than intro levels.
Well in WoW I can swim and jump, why does SE think they should be different from everyone one else? And why is there no Rogue this time? And why cant it be more like WoW? I mean come on WoW has a billion sub's, you cant be a good game if you dont have a billion subs.
Yeah and in WoW you have the same Raid that you do every week 2 weeks after you got the game and all 3 expansions, give me my purples and watered down story line, and I want to know why there is no more content 2 weeks after I got the game, I hate this game so much, but hey we got jump and swim so it should be ok. OOh and we got the PVPs cause since I have nothing to do cause there is no content to do and the crafting is meh at best I can go and kill the noobs that are lv 5. That should keep me entertained for about 5 minutes. I can also AFK cause I got auto attack, I dont have to actually think about anything I can faceroll the keyboard and be #1 on the damage meter.
That is precisely what I meant by my post. SE has already sped up combat a bit since the alpha version, so they are obviously listening to the beta testers. At this point, the people complaining about combat speed and no jumping/swimming are not people who want to play FFXIV. Even if SE speeds up combat to WoW-like speeds, and throws jumping and swimming in there to please this group, they will just find something else to hate the game for because THEY NEVER LIKED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
There are billions of games out there, each of them offering different things. FFXIV has caught my eye because the developers have implemented design choices that I find favorable. If they hadn't? Well instead of demanding that they change the game to suit my needs, I would probably just move on to another game.
Im happy that you know what everyone else is think and will do. I mean come on.
Originally posted by pepsi1028
Slow? maybe. Tactical? Yes
Sounds like Final Fantasy to me!
Why, How? Don't just say things (I know its a fad on gaming forums). But explain yourself.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Comments
I would argue his logic is actually more thought-out than yours is. Neither of you are being simple-minded, you just have different views on business practices.
What the most recent poster is presuming, I believe, is that his opponent is suggesting the complaints should be ignored BECAUSE they "are a bad thing". I don't believe that was his point. The point he is making is that the niche within the beta-testing community who ARE suggesting that combat be changed are the very same community who will inevitably leave the game. He is suggesting that SE will be taking a risk by altering combat-speed that will risk losing fans from one of two communities: The Short-Term subscribers and the Long-Term subscribers.
Short-Time subscribers are incredibly common in MMOs. Box sales are often quadruple the remaining player base post-release month (I have no source for this, merely presuming based on current sub numbers of games that sold several million box compies). That said, if SE were to accomodate to the people in Beta who requested combat change, and increased the speed, they would be put in a position with the following risks:
1) Alienating the players who DID NOT WANT that change (in this circumstance, this group is considered to be the FFXI/FFXIV fans)
2) Accomodating to fans who WILL NOT be long-time subscribers, at the expense of those who will.
Now if they did not make the change, the following risks exist:
1) Alientating a player base who will likely leave shortly after release.
While both sides of the arguement seen above make sense, it would seem to me that the more logical one is the FF-Fan argument. Changing the combat speed because of the feedback from a short-lived community risks alienating a community that would more than cover the losses of the short-term communities business over time. So if SE did indeed speed up the combat they'd be walking a shaky road. One where the increased sales they do gain will be from individuals who will not be as valuable to them as those that will leave the game if the speed of combat is increased. Short-term communities will usually buy the game anyway, to try it out. Even if people from beta say that combat is slow, people will want to see for themselves and will probably buy the game, this is the nature of MMO sales.
$.02
Someday we'll all look back on the age of computers - and lol.
they did speed up the combat quite a bit. it doesnt need to be any faster. i might as well play tera if it gets much faster where it just becaomes a hack and slash
That is precisely what I meant by my post. SE has already sped up combat a bit since the alpha version, so they are obviously listening to the beta testers. At this point, the people complaining about combat speed and no jumping/swimming are not people who want to play FFXIV. Even if SE speeds up combat to WoW-like speeds, and throws jumping and swimming in there to please this group, they will just find something else to hate the game for because THEY NEVER LIKED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
There are billions of games out there, each of them offering different things. FFXIV has caught my eye because the developers have implemented design choices that I find favorable. If they hadn't? Well instead of demanding that they change the game to suit my needs, I would probably just move on to another game.
If I was a game developer, I would certainly want those 12 million subscriptions too. But how well has that worked out for the last few MMOs that released? How many subs does Age of Conan, or Warhammer Online, or Lord of the Rings Online have? Not even close to 12 million, and not even close to the amount that FFXI held for over 7 years.
It is unreasonable to try to harness World of Warcraft's playerbase because they already have a game that they like. By sticking to a design philosophy that SE knows will at least attract ex-FFXI players, and by broadening their audience a tiny bit, FFXIV will have more than enough players to make profit and pay for its own game updates.
Very well thought-out post. I'll take it a step further to show that SE has already made the decision on which group to follow.
They made the decision to make the races identical to FFXI so that FFXI members could smoothly transition to FFXIV. They also allowed FFXI members to transfer their name from FFXI to FFXIV. A lot of people who were long time FFXI subscribers got priority in terms of alpha testing.
SE is very aware that the only reason FFXIV exists is because of the devotion of 500k subscribers that stuck with them through thick and thin. Though SE wants mainstream success, it will never be at the expense of alienating their loyal/rabid/devoted fanbase.
I happen to be in that group and am glad that the devs are keeping it close to the vest and not changing FFXIV at the whim of finicky subscribers, that in the end, will not be there when it matters.
Actaully FF XI subs have dropped a fair bit since the last measurement. Reports are now showing it at 350k (http://www.mmodata.net/).
Also it is complete bull they are aiming FF XIV in favour of XI players. They have stated they are a priority, but not the whole target audience. The aim of XIV is for it to be more popular than XI. Unless the game changes, then all they will get are the XI players. So they'll end up with the same number of subs, but split over two games. Great business strategy.
As for someone who said they have speeded combat up a fair bit. No they haven't, and is shown in many a recent video. If they had, the previous incarnation must have been a slide show.
In pretty much conviced FF XI players are living in an isolated bubble, thinking MMOs haven't progressed since the late 90s. They certainly don't seem to have much experience of what's acceptable these days.
What's acceptable these days is purely subjective. What's acceptable these days are complete failures. FFXI has 350k subs which is more than LotRO, AoC, and Warhammer.
If FFXIV becomes more like "modern MMO's", or as you say "what is acceptible these days" then it will be a flop just like the rest of em. The market needs something different, they dont' need another copy paste job.
350k world wide, most of which are in Asia. 300k'ish for Asia is poor. LotRO, AoC and Warhammer have a lesser global coverage. They are also western design and most definitely LotRO is far more popular than FF XI, in the west. Chances are AoC and Warhammer are as well, with a lesser margin of course. Anyway so what, its still on the decline, which was the point of the correction when 500k was stated.
FF XIV will flop in the state people have seen so far. What has been seen at E3 and through other demonstration is an extremely dated game, with advanced graphics (for a MMO). Graphics do not make it a quality product. So far it fails in every area, but that one.
123,000+ Pre-Orders for FFXIV for PC and PS3 in NORTH AMERICA alone. I don't doubt that if you factor Asia and Europe, you will likely have 400k+ pre-orders before the game releases.
For many of us, FFXIV becoming mainstream is a bad thing. Mainstream means lowest common denominator, It means it has to be so watered down in order for it to cater to everyone.
If FFXIV has 500k subs for 8 years just like FFXI did, then by all standards, that's a huge success. No other game other than wow can claim the same.
Im not worried abuot FFXIV's success. I'm only worried that it will be less successful because people who have no intention of playing it for a long period of time are trying to change it and make it into those other MMO's which were less successful.
Luckily, SE will not listen to the jump/swim crowd. Even if they do, it will be years down the line where it won't even matter. And as a realisic fact, the game is due out in two months. It doesn't hve jump, it doesn't have swimming. The combat is going to be very close to what it is now in beta. the FFXI crowd has won out.
Thank goodness.
Simpy because its Final Fanaty. Anyone would be a fool to predict poor box sales. From what's been demonstrated and the vast majroty of negative responces as a result, it won't be retaining subscriptions. Well at least new ones above XI fanbois.
It will be interesting to see if they lift the NDA before launch, or have an open beta.
Mainstream is also what SE are claiming they are aiming for, so claiming FF XI players want it to remain niche is pretty moot. The question though, is will they actually achieve it? Highly unlikely!
It will retain subscribers better than any other game that came after WoW simply because it doesn't try to be wow.... unlike everything else.
Sorry, but making something substanded just to be different is a joke. More likely they are just poor at designing MMOs.
You know there are other MMOs aside from FF XI/XIV and WoW? Many are also quite different from WoW, while much more advanced in design from what we know of FF XIV.
the combat is slower then alpha thats all Ill say even if alot dont want to belive it it's true combat is slower then alpha. it's basicly a waiting game
LMAO BS
you can keep attacking as long as you have stam so why lie? now if oyuw as having input lag then ye aic an see it being slow ><
to be honest it sonly vocal on here go to gamefaqs boards hardly any negativity also the beta forums dont have alot of negativity onit most people actully like it so far besides controls
So far the combat does look relatively slow but classes like pugalist seem to have a somewhat fast attack speed. In the long run its FF be glad it isnt turn based.
true with ff xiv all i was hoping was abit faster combat than 11 and i enjoyed 11 combat system Whm was fun got hard at times tho.
Hrayr2148 (forgot to quote, page 12)
i like swimming
not that i've ever liked/played world of warcraft but waters nice xD but yes- agreeing that se is doing a very good job of keeping it unique. BUT I LIKE WATER XD
I never found FFXI slow pace.
As a brd, you can't even spare 1 sec from the screen. Seriously, ask around.
As a cor, no you can't
As a blm, remove your hand from the keyboard for 2 sec and you are DEAD. (beside the sleep rest trick)
As a DRK, yes you can just leave your drk slash all he want, but what about STUN!!! what about absorb and die when you gullotine the thing. (nyzul 20 here....)
as a dnc, nin, keep your shadow up every 3 sec.or stay alive...
As a pld, you are pretty free. I can go have a drink and come back and still tanking the monster....
As a healer, if you want your tank to die sure. RDM are super busy.
none
true
I don't find PLD free at all. If you want to maximize your group productivity you need to pay attention and constantly rotate your skills or you will lose hate in a hurry. Not as demanding as a NIN tank but still. The only class I find relaxing and you can afk without getting notice is MNK heheheh.
I loved my NIN/Theif Combo, I had to always be on the ball for damage chains. And that combat was slower than the "normal" current MMO. From what I have seen and hear it has picked up speed up somewhat. It should be really fun higher than intro levels.
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~V
Well in WoW I can swim and jump, why does SE think they should be different from everyone one else? And why is there no Rogue this time? And why cant it be more like WoW? I mean come on WoW has a billion sub's, you cant be a good game if you dont have a billion subs.
Yeah and in WoW you have the same Raid that you do every week 2 weeks after you got the game and all 3 expansions, give me my purples and watered down story line, and I want to know why there is no more content 2 weeks after I got the game, I hate this game so much, but hey we got jump and swim so it should be ok. OOh and we got the PVPs cause since I have nothing to do cause there is no content to do and the crafting is meh at best I can go and kill the noobs that are lv 5. That should keep me entertained for about 5 minutes. I can also AFK cause I got auto attack, I dont have to actually think about anything I can faceroll the keyboard and be #1 on the damage meter.
Im happy that you know what everyone else is think and will do. I mean come on.
Why, How? Don't just say things (I know its a fad on gaming forums). But explain yourself.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine