I'm going to go ahead and assume you're still in grade school. I can't believe that actually clicked in your head.
That says a lot about your arguments and position if people in grade school are able to see flaws in them. (:
When logic is the enemy, insults and personal attacks become the ammunition. The pro cash shop guys need to convince themselves more than others that they are not being scammed.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
I have never had an issue with P2P mmorpg charging extra for vanity item but people here seem to go crazy when it happens.
I always hear the argument if I pay $15 a month I want 100% of the game...which I think is a little silly...what is wrong if someone is willing to pay a little extra for a few pixels that will not affect your game play in any way at all.
When you pay someone to do a job you want the job done. You don't want them to try and sell you snake oil on the side instead.
if i buy a burger and i want extra cheese i gotta pay a little extra
I have never had an issue with P2P mmorpg charging extra for vanity item but people here seem to go crazy when it happens.
I always hear the argument if I pay $15 a month I want 100% of the game...which I think is a little silly...what is wrong if someone is willing to pay a little extra for a few pixels that will not affect your game play in any way at all.
When you pay someone to do a job you want the job done. You don't want them to try and sell you snake oil on the side instead.
if i buy a burger and i want extra cheese i gotta pay a little extra
Adding a piece of cheese to your burger didn't make him stop cooking mine to do it. He did not take the cheese from my burger and charge you extra for it.
no, but you still get everything else but the extra cheese
I have never had an issue with P2P mmorpg charging extra for vanity item but people here seem to go crazy when it happens.
I always hear the argument if I pay $15 a month I want 100% of the game...which I think is a little silly...what is wrong if someone is willing to pay a little extra for a few pixels that will not affect your game play in any way at all.
When you pay someone to do a job you want the job done. You don't want them to try and sell you snake oil on the side instead.
if i buy a burger and i want extra cheese i gotta pay a little extra
Adding a piece of cheese to your burger didn't make him stop cooking mine to do it. He did not take the cheese from my burger and charge you extra for it.
no, but you still get everything else but the extra cheese
The cheese wasn't there to begin with... unlike the items in the cast shop which are already in the game.
"You can have this burger but you can't eat the cheese that is on it unless you pay extra"
I have never had an issue with P2P mmorpg charging extra for vanity item but people here seem to go crazy when it happens.
I always hear the argument if I pay $15 a month I want 100% of the game...which I think is a little silly...what is wrong if someone is willing to pay a little extra for a few pixels that will not affect your game play in any way at all.
When you pay someone to do a job you want the job done. You don't want them to try and sell you snake oil on the side instead.
if i buy a burger and i want extra cheese i gotta pay a little extra
Adding a piece of cheese to your burger didn't make him stop cooking mine to do it. He did not take the cheese from my burger and charge you extra for it.
no, but you still get everything else but the extra cheese
The cheese wasn't there to begin with... unlike the items in the cast shop which are already in the game.
"You can have this burger but you can't eat the cheese that is on it unless you pay extra"
Same with he vanity items, if it was not for the Cash shop it would not have been there
We could go at this for ever so i am jsut going to stop it at here
I have never had an issue with P2P mmorpg charging extra for vanity item but people here seem to go crazy when it happens.
I always hear the argument if I pay $15 a month I want 100% of the game...which I think is a little silly...what is wrong if someone is willing to pay a little extra for a few pixels that will not affect your game play in any way at all.
When you pay someone to do a job you want the job done. You don't want them to try and sell you snake oil on the side instead.
if i buy a burger and i want extra cheese i gotta pay a little extra
Adding a piece of cheese to your burger didn't make him stop cooking mine to do it. He did not take the cheese from my burger and charge you extra for it.
no, but you still get everything else but the extra cheese
The cheese wasn't there to begin with... unlike the items in the cast shop which are already in the game.
"You can have this burger but you can't eat the cheese that is on it unless you pay extra"
This whole metaphor is lost on me, but I have to say that cheese isn't free - they had to buy it so that it could then be resold. You'll notice a cheeseburger is usually a few cents more than a hamburger. So you do have to pay for it whether it comes in the initial package or not.
I have never had an issue with P2P mmorpg charging extra for vanity item but people here seem to go crazy when it happens.
I always hear the argument if I pay $15 a month I want 100% of the game...which I think is a little silly...what is wrong if someone is willing to pay a little extra for a few pixels that will not affect your game play in any way at all.
When you pay someone to do a job you want the job done. You don't want them to try and sell you snake oil on the side instead.
if i buy a burger and i want extra cheese i gotta pay a little extra
Adding a piece of cheese to your burger didn't make him stop cooking mine to do it. He did not take the cheese from my burger and charge you extra for it.
no, but you still get everything else but the extra cheese
The cheese wasn't there to begin with... unlike the items in the cast shop which are already in the game.
"You can have this burger but you can't eat the cheese that is on it unless you pay extra"
This whole metaphor is lost on me, but I have to say that cheese isn't free - they had to buy it so that it could then be resold. You'll notice a cheeseburger is usually a few cents more than a hamburger. So you do have to pay for it whether it comes in the initial package or not.
It wasn't free to begin with, you are paying a fee for everything on the burger.
This metaphor can be twisted either way lol, doesn't really work well >_>;
In essence, having a subscription is a declaration of uniformity, which technically is a signature. Our contract is an agreement with a publisher to purchase a subscription with said game. That game should include everything it has to offer by what my signture provides, which is that game as a whole. I don't subscribe to only part of the game, I subscribe to it entirely; which this game should offer itself as to what you have subscribed. By not providing everything within the game is going outside of the contract jurisdiction that I had previously signed and therefore is offensive to me.
Personally, you have to be pretty ignorant to make this thread, or work for some company who is trying to make a game with a sub and cash shop. If somehow you aren't ignorant, which you probably are, then you are simply greedy.
..because they inevitably add other stuff to the cash shop that you do not need to buy. As far as..the "I bought the game and deserve any future additions or changes, free of charge..no matter what" mentality. It's just ridiculous. It's an ever -changing and on -going service..like cable. You pay monthly for cable..yet they can essentially change ...add or drop channels and re-arrange tiers/packages/bundles at will .As long as core channels remain there is little you can do besides stopping your subscription. Same goes for mmos.(IMO and understanding..and based on experiences with both Cable/Fios and MMOs.) You subscribe to a service..not a game. They even go out of their way to tell you the quality and content (and thus availability to content ) can... and likely will... change. We could argue forever on the differences based on our opinions. There will always be those people who believe "X" dollars a month is a guarantee of some kind. Except that it isn't.
In essence, having a subscription is a declaration of uniformity, which technically is a signature. Our contract is an agreement with a publisher to purchase a subscription with said game. That game should include everything it has to offer by what my signture provides, which is that game as a whole. I don't subscribe to only part of the game, I subscribe to it entirely; which this game should offer itself as to what you have subscribed. By not providing everything within the game is going outside of the contract jurisdiction that I had previously signed and therefore is offensive to me.
Reminds of me WoW' Celestial Steed mount that made 2 millions in 4 hours, that'a amazing.
2 million dollars ? Are you kidding they made 2 million dollars. Well hmm obviously there is a market then.
There is no agreement as far as what you are entitled to in game for your monthly sub. You all argue like it is a given that you're entitled to items and other vanity stuff because of your $15 . Their game and you sign the EULA and they can change their mind on what your $15 entitles you to. Yes it sucks that 2 years down the road you see the item shop go in but this are business decisions that you can disagree to by leaving.
Once upon a time I got free prawn crackers when I went to eat chinese noodles at the corner shop then one day they started charging extra for it without sending me a 4 page memo on it . I stopped getting them, they were fattening anyway. Things change ,business practices change. That is the way the world goes.
it does say on the EULA that the fee is subject to change.
it say it on all mmorpg games
Who the hell reads the EULA?!
You must be pretty bored with your life to do that.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Ok so you have a magazine subscription youre paying for...
All the sudden you get a letter saying in order to continue recieving all the magazine articles you will need to pay extra ontop of your subscription. Of course the articles aren't necessary, they are just a part of the magazine you paid for and you are still getting the magazine with numerous pages ripped out.
Well, the "against it" crowd has made all the good arguments and I agree with those.
1) Vanity items do matter, as proven by player's desire to have them.
Cosmetic items do matter to some portion of the audience, yes - that's not necessarily an argument against cash shops with vanity items, but premise accepted.
2) Can and almost certainly will lead to suits adding sales of items that matter mechanically in the game.
This is a fallacy. It is possible, but you have no evidence to logically suggest it is probable with any given game.
3) Overpriced rippoffs
That's a separate issue - what if they were fairly priced in the next cash shop? They'll charge what people are willing to pay.
4) Boosts the profit structure, boosting stock values, boosting suit's stock options, meaning it's done for greed over good game design.
A lot of factors can do these things. Frankly, the goal of ANY firm is to maximize profit. Greed does not equate unless higher-ups are laundering money from their own companies. That's not what's best for the firm, however. Doing what customers demand most is what's best for the firm. If good game design is what's demanded most (which it may or may not actually be) then that's what the firm will try to accomplish.
5) Devalues in-game play, especially in achieving said vanity items.
If they offer different items that can't be attained in game, or anything similar to them, then the gameplay would not be devalued, right?
6) Matters to some of the players, therefore the idea of cash shops is meaningful whether some of the other players don't care or not.
Again, I have no qualms with that - but like I said, simply assigning the items meaning has nothing to do with whether there should or should not be cash shops.
There is one more issue that I haven't seen mentioned. Cash shops offer RMT type players another venue to buy for real cash and then sell in-game for game money. Some use this to boost their in-game success (which isn't earned through game play), and others use this to sell the cash shop items for more than "street value" and turn around and sell the "gold" for more than they originally paid for the item. This has the secondary effect of inflating prices in game, making those with less gold less competitive inside the game. And this has a tertiary effect that forces players to do likewise even if they don't like it, if they want to be competitive in the game's economic perspective, and what that can buy for in-game power.
That has been mentioned - I was arguing with another poster about it. This is solved simply by the dev making their cash shop items Bind on Account.
very nice sum up hehe. also Id want to know why in the world would ppl defend it?
To clarfiy - I don't care whether or not the game I play has a cash shop selling vanity items. I am, however, upset when people use logical fallacies to defend their position. Both sides of the argument are doing it - but I've seen the same ones repeated consistently on the "against" side, so people apparently believe their arguments are logically valid and sound when, in fact, they are not. If this doesn't convince someone to see the errors in reasoning being made, then I don't know what else to say. I'll leave it be.
I have never had an issue with P2P mmorpg charging extra for vanity item but people here seem to go crazy when it happens.
I always hear the argument if I pay $15 a month I want 100% of the game...which I think is a little silly...what is wrong if someone is willing to pay a little extra for a few pixels that will not affect your game play in any way at all.
Principle.
I do not like the way the MMO genre is heading and the only power I have is with my wallet. I may miss out on a good games but that is something I am willing to do for my beliefs.
We all have to make decisions about what we feel is worth our money and what we want to support. Right, wrong or indifferent, it is the choice that we all make—is this product worth my money and time?
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
In That game should include everything it has to offer by what my signture provides, which is that game as a whole. I don't subscribe to only part of the game,
By not providing everything within the game is going outside of the contract jurisdiction that I had previously signed and therefore is offensive to me.
ignorant
lol!
You are stating you want expansion slots for free without realizing it.
Also, a cash shop is a seperate entity from the actual game.
You already have the game as a whole as you want it.
You just don't have speshul clothes and dyes that they offer in their vanity shop, which is infact, is a seprate entity from the game anyway.
By your logic of "I suscribed for the game as a whole"....you can't have the shop and vanity items it provides since the shop is infact a seprate entity. Your post also pretty much says you want expansions for free,
Then to say "ignorant" at the end of your post....
"We got rid of the trinity." How'd you do that? "Now everyone can heal." Sounds like you just took the mechanic and spread it thin. "Well no, there's one class that can do it better than others." I see, so they're healers. "No. They're.." -mind asplode-
I have never had an issue with P2P mmorpg charging extra for vanity item but people here seem to go crazy when it happens.
I always hear the argument if I pay $15 a month I want 100% of the game...which I think is a little silly...what is wrong if someone is willing to pay a little extra for a few pixels that will not affect your game play in any way at all.
When you pay someone to do a job you want the job done. You don't want them to try and sell you snake oil on the side instead.
if i buy a burger and i want extra cheese i gotta pay a little extra
Adding a piece of cheese to your burger didn't make him stop cooking mine to do it. He did not take the cheese from my burger and charge you extra for it.
no, but you still get everything else but the extra cheese
The cheese wasn't there to begin with... unlike the items in the cast shop which are already in the game.
"You can have this burger but you can't eat the cheese that is on it unless you pay extra"
This whole metaphor is lost on me, but I have to say that cheese isn't free - they had to buy it so that it could then be resold. You'll notice a cheeseburger is usually a few cents more than a hamburger. So you do have to pay for it whether it comes in the initial package or not.
It wasn't free to begin with, you are paying a fee for everything on the burger.
This metaphor can be twisted either way lol, doesn't really work well >_>;
But by ordering a hamburger, you are not entitled to cheese for no extra charge. But yes, let's stop, I'm getting hungry.
As far as..the "I bought the game and deserve any future additions or changes, free of charge..no matter what"
It isn't free of charge though, you are paying a subscription.
Yeah..out of context from the rest of my post I can understand what you're saying.
Then why claim that subscription sided people want everything free of charge? It seems a bit slanderous...
That one line..which you continue to comment on... out of context with the rest of my post to which it applies..is not meant to be taken as a blanket statement..except apparently..by you. That one line..is meant to express the entitlement mentality of many MMo players. Next time I'll just say "entitlement" to avoid confusion. IMO...and the opinion of most people that I know who read the EULA ..is that you own the product(box set..digital download) but the monthly fee is for the service/ability to access the servers for which the game is managed. The code/program on your computer..for what it's worth (which is very little without the servers) is yours. Everything else is theirs to change at will. I wish it were not this way..but I wish for too many things sometimes.
As far as..the "I bought the game and deserve any future additions or changes, free of charge..no matter what"
It isn't free of charge though, you are paying a subscription.
Yeah..out of context from the rest of my post I can understand what you're saying.
Then why claim that subscription sided people want everything free of charge? It seems a bit slanderous...
That one line..which you continue to comment on... out of context with the rest of my post to which it applies..is not meant to be taken as a blanket statement..except apparently..by you. That one line..is meant to express the entitlement mentality of many MMo players. Next time I'll just say "entitlement" to avoid confusion. IMO...and the opinion of most people that I know who read the EULA ..is that you own the product(box set..digital download) but the monthly fee is for the service/ability to access the servers for which the game is managed. The code/program on your computer..for what it's worth (which is very little without the servers) is yours. Everything else is theirs to change at will. I wish it were not this way..but I wish for too many things sometimes.
I read all of your post but decided not to address the rest of it (the point has been stated over and over again in this thread so I didn't feel the need). I looked back up at your post and a lot seems to have been added to it. The fact of the matter is that your statement is a bit slanderous and had the assumtion that P2P gamers want everything for free...which is somewhat ironic.
Don't look into it too far, i'm just pointing out that it was slanderous, no big deal.
EDIT: In order to take heart of your argument, your feelings about people also come into play since it is 'your' argument.
As far as..the "I bought the game and deserve any future additions or changes, free of charge..no matter what"
It isn't free of charge though, you are paying a subscription.
Yeah..out of context from the rest of my post I can understand what you're saying.
Then why claim that subscription sided people want everything free of charge? It seems a bit slanderous...
That one line..which you continue to comment on... out of context with the rest of my post to which it applies..is not meant to be taken as a blanket statement..except apparently..by you. That one line..is meant to express the entitlement mentality of many MMo players. Next time I'll just say "entitlement" to avoid confusion. IMO...and the opinion of most people that I know who read the EULA ..is that you own the product(box set..digital download) but the monthly fee is for the service/ability to access the servers for which the game is managed. The code/program on your computer..for what it's worth (which is very little without the servers) is yours. Everything else is theirs to change at will. I wish it were not this way..but I wish for too many things sometimes.
I read all of your post but decided not to address the rest of it (the point has been stated over and over again in this thread so I didn't feel the need). I looked back up at your post and a lot seems to have been added to it. The fact of the matter is that your statement is a bit slanderous and had the assumtion that P2P gamers want everything for free...which is somewhat ironic.
Don't look into it too far, i'm just pointing out that it was slanderous, no big deal.
EDIT: In order to take heart of your argument, your feelings about people also come into play since it is 'your' argument.
I'd rather you disregard my entire post then to comment on one sentence without context. In dealing with the one sentence though I really don't get the whole "slander " thing. I think it could be considered a generalization...but slander is a bit much. Besides ..I believe the word you're looking for is "libel" since this is a written forum. ..Anyway..we'll agree to disagree. Good day.
Well, the "against it" crowd has made all the good arguments and I agree with those.
1) Vanity items do matter, as proven by player's desire to have them.
Cosmetic items do matter to some portion of the audience, yes - that's not necessarily an argument against cash shops with vanity items, but premise accepted.
2) Can and almost certainly will lead to suits adding sales of items that matter mechanically in the game.
This is a fallacy. It is possible, but you have no evidence to logically suggest it is probable with any given game.
3) Overpriced rippoffs
That's a separate issue - what if they were fairly priced in the next cash shop? They'll charge what people are willing to pay.
The statement "They'll charge what people are willing to pay." is, in my opinion, very vague. Do you mean "They'll charge what at least a few people are willing to pay. ", "They'll charge what a majority of the people are willing to pay.", "They'll charge in such way that they maximize their profit during 1 year.", "They'll charge in such way that they maximize their profit during 5 years.", "They'll charge what they think will give them a high-end profit during 1 year." or something else? You are asking other people to argue in a more proper manner, yet you, at least once in this thread, use very poor argumentation in form of vague statements.
4) Boosts the profit structure, boosting stock values, boosting suit's stock options, meaning it's done for greed over good game design.
A lot of factors can do these things. Frankly, the goal of ANY firm is to maximize profit. Greed does not equate unless higher-ups are laundering money from their own companies. That's not what's best for the firm, however. Doing what customers demand most is what's best for the firm. If good game design is what's demanded most (which it may or may not actually be) then that's what the firm will try to accomplish.
You state that the most important goal of any firm is to maximize profit. Therefore, it is sufficient to find at least one firm where the most important goal is not to maximize profit, in order to prove you wrong in that case.
First of all we need to clarify what is meant with "firm" in the phrase "goal of any firm". If we assume that it either means "leadership of the firm" or "owners of the firm", then I can inform you that a such goal is not the main one in several firms owned by the government in several countries; their main goal is instead to deliver as good service as possible for those that use their service.
Heck, I can even link you to privately owned firms whose main goal is to create as "good" highschool as possible for the students.
"Doing what costumers demand is what's best for the firm" implies that doing what costumers demands is always best for any firm at any given situation. However, in several occassions, doing what the costumers subcounciously would appriciate without them demanding it, can be far better from a profit perspective.
There are also scenarios where the owners have a vision which contradicts what most costumers are demanding. In such cases, it is hard to judge what would be "best" for the "firm".
5) Devalues in-game play, especially in achieving said vanity items.
If they offer different items that can't be attained in game, or anything similar to them, then the gameplay would not be devalued, right?
Similarity comes in different degrees; for instance, any mount is similar to any other mount in the sense that they are both units in the category known as "mounts", but they might not be similar in the sense that they have the same size; therefore, the statement "anything similar to them" is vague.
Furthermore, there are scenarios where a new product shares some similiraties with an old one in such way that the affection for the old one diminishes, once the new one is introduced.
6) Matters to some of the players, therefore the idea of cash shops is meaningful whether some of the other players don't care or not.
Again, I have no qualms with that - but like I said, simply assigning the items meaning has nothing to do with whether there should or should not be cash shops.
"Should" and "should not" are words used exclusively to describe opinions.
There is one more issue that I haven't seen mentioned. Cash shops offer RMT type players another venue to buy for real cash and then sell in-game for game money. Some use this to boost their in-game success (which isn't earned through game play), and others use this to sell the cash shop items for more than "street value" and turn around and sell the "gold" for more than they originally paid for the item. This has the secondary effect of inflating prices in game, making those with less gold less competitive inside the game. And this has a tertiary effect that forces players to do likewise even if they don't like it, if they want to be competitive in the game's economic perspective, and what that can buy for in-game power.
That has been mentioned - I was arguing with another poster about it. This is solved simply by the dev making their cash shop items Bind on Account.
very nice sum up hehe. also Id want to know why in the world would ppl defend it?
To clarfiy - I don't care whether or not the game I play has a cash shop selling vanity items. I am, however, upset when people use logical fallacies to defend their position. Both sides of the argument are doing it - but I've seen the same ones repeated consistently on the "against" side, so people apparently believe their arguments are logically valid and sound when, in fact, they are not. If this doesn't convince someone to see the errors in reasoning being made, then I don't know what else to say. I'll leave it be.
In a similar manner, I ask you to stop writing vague statements when you argue. I will also ask you to refrain from posting false statements.
Comments
That says a lot about your arguments and position if people in grade school are able to see flaws in them. (:
When logic is the enemy, insults and personal attacks become the ammunition. The pro cash shop guys need to convince themselves more than others that they are not being scammed.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
if i buy a burger and i want extra cheese i gotta pay a little extra
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
no, but you still get everything else but the extra cheese
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
The cheese wasn't there to begin with... unlike the items in the cast shop which are already in the game.
"You can have this burger but you can't eat the cheese that is on it unless you pay extra"
Same with he vanity items, if it was not for the Cash shop it would not have been there
We could go at this for ever so i am jsut going to stop it at here
it is getting silly lol.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
This whole metaphor is lost on me, but I have to say that cheese isn't free - they had to buy it so that it could then be resold. You'll notice a cheeseburger is usually a few cents more than a hamburger. So you do have to pay for it whether it comes in the initial package or not.
It wasn't free to begin with, you are paying a fee for everything on the burger.
This metaphor can be twisted either way lol, doesn't really work well >_>;
In essence, having a subscription is a declaration of uniformity, which technically is a signature. Our contract is an agreement with a publisher to purchase a subscription with said game. That game should include everything it has to offer by what my signture provides, which is that game as a whole. I don't subscribe to only part of the game, I subscribe to it entirely; which this game should offer itself as to what you have subscribed. By not providing everything within the game is going outside of the contract jurisdiction that I had previously signed and therefore is offensive to me.
Personally, you have to be pretty ignorant to make this thread, or work for some company who is trying to make a game with a sub and cash shop. If somehow you aren't ignorant, which you probably are, then you are simply greedy.
..because they inevitably add other stuff to the cash shop that you do not need to buy. As far as..the "I bought the game and deserve any future additions or changes, free of charge..no matter what" mentality. It's just ridiculous. It's an ever -changing and on -going service..like cable. You pay monthly for cable..yet they can essentially change ...add or drop channels and re-arrange tiers/packages/bundles at will .As long as core channels remain there is little you can do besides stopping your subscription. Same goes for mmos.(IMO and understanding..and based on experiences with both Cable/Fios and MMOs.) You subscribe to a service..not a game. They even go out of their way to tell you the quality and content (and thus availability to content ) can... and likely will... change. We could argue forever on the differences based on our opinions. There will always be those people who believe "X" dollars a month is a guarantee of some kind. Except that it isn't.
It isn't free of charge though, you are paying a subscription.
Agreed.
Who the hell reads the EULA?!
You must be pretty bored with your life to do that.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Ok so you have a magazine subscription youre paying for...
All the sudden you get a letter saying in order to continue recieving all the magazine articles you will need to pay extra ontop of your subscription. Of course the articles aren't necessary, they are just a part of the magazine you paid for and you are still getting the magazine with numerous pages ripped out.
because we're paying a sub.
Yeah..out of context from the rest of my post I can understand what you're saying.
Principle.
I do not like the way the MMO genre is heading and the only power I have is with my wallet. I may miss out on a good games but that is something I am willing to do for my beliefs.
We all have to make decisions about what we feel is worth our money and what we want to support. Right, wrong or indifferent, it is the choice that we all make—is this product worth my money and time?
--John Ruskin
Then why claim that subscription sided people want everything free of charge? It seems a bit slanderous...
lol!
You are stating you want expansion slots for free without realizing it.
Also, a cash shop is a seperate entity from the actual game.
You already have the game as a whole as you want it.
You just don't have speshul clothes and dyes that they offer in their vanity shop, which is infact, is a seprate entity from the game anyway.
By your logic of "I suscribed for the game as a whole"....you can't have the shop and vanity items it provides since the shop is infact a seprate entity. Your post also pretty much says you want expansions for free,
Then to say "ignorant" at the end of your post....
"We got rid of the trinity." How'd you do that? "Now everyone can heal." Sounds like you just took the mechanic and spread it thin. "Well no, there's one class that can do it better than others." I see, so they're healers. "No. They're.." -mind asplode-
But by ordering a hamburger, you are not entitled to cheese for no extra charge. But yes, let's stop, I'm getting hungry.
That one line..which you continue to comment on... out of context with the rest of my post to which it applies..is not meant to be taken as a blanket statement..except apparently..by you. That one line..is meant to express the entitlement mentality of many MMo players. Next time I'll just say "entitlement" to avoid confusion. IMO...and the opinion of most people that I know who read the EULA ..is that you own the product(box set..digital download) but the monthly fee is for the service/ability to access the servers for which the game is managed. The code/program on your computer..for what it's worth (which is very little without the servers) is yours. Everything else is theirs to change at will. I wish it were not this way..but I wish for too many things sometimes.
I read all of your post but decided not to address the rest of it (the point has been stated over and over again in this thread so I didn't feel the need). I looked back up at your post and a lot seems to have been added to it. The fact of the matter is that your statement is a bit slanderous and had the assumtion that P2P gamers want everything for free...which is somewhat ironic.
Don't look into it too far, i'm just pointing out that it was slanderous, no big deal.
EDIT: In order to take heart of your argument, your feelings about people also come into play since it is 'your' argument.
I'd rather you disregard my entire post then to comment on one sentence without context. In dealing with the one sentence though I really don't get the whole "slander " thing. I think it could be considered a generalization...but slander is a bit much. Besides ..I believe the word you're looking for is "libel" since this is a written forum.
..Anyway..we'll agree to disagree. Good day.