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I really don't understand this demand for space freedom..
jp4lyfe
Member UncommonPosts: 165
So many people on these forums, and the official forums talking about how dissapointed they are about not being able to hop into their ship and to explore the galaxy freely. Now to those who just wanted full range of their ship in combat, thats different. I'm talking about the ones who for whatever reason thought they could just fly all over the place doing whatever.
I mean seriously? Thats what you want? To explore space in your little ship? Going from planet to planet? Have you seen the majority of space..?
Rub your eyes really hard for a minute then close them super tight while near some form of light. What do you see? A bunch of black nothingness and possibly faint silhouettes? There ya go, thats space. Thats what you want? Hell, I can make a game that does that no problem at all... People would pay me for that?
But seriously though I just dont really understand why people were expecting this. Odds are the people who wanted that form of space is the minority here. So are the people who are happy with space. All us forum goers, here and on the official forums are the minority of who will be subscribers. It's your every day average gaming folk who will make up a big chunk of the subs and will log in after getting the game and go "wow theres space combat? cool!" and it doesn't matter how it looks because they were never a diehard, back in the day star wars fan and they were never a disgruntled SWG vet searching for those yesterdays and they were never a day to day forum poster cheering and raging about any speculation that comes out..
They are just your average gamers looking to play.... Who don't give 2.. you know what's about how the added space content works. They'll just be happy that it's there at all. And if it wasn't, I don't think it would matter much either. If the game is good, they'll play. If it's not, they wont. They wont pickup a box and go "okay it looks great! ..but whats this..? No free to roam space? RAGE!" /flying elbow drops copy of game and runs out of video store. If thats really your reason for not playing.. then wth?
Update:
Despite my 3am ramble. .
The entire point of this post was I guess when I think of *most* MMOs. I think of the usual you know.. Create your toon and do your quests to gaing access to new skills, new gear, higher content, harder encounters sort of deal.. Thats the base or core to the game. So the mini game space combat doesn't seem like a big deal.
I understand SWG did it
I understand theres MMOs like eve online that are entirely space based pretty much.
SWTOR and Bioware never claimed to be either of those. Not once. We didn't even know there would be space combat til a few weeks ago. I just thought most people would of figured out what type of game this would be from the very start.
And just out of curiosity is it just SWG vets upset by the space combat? Any none SWG players devistate by the space combat? Not trying to hate on anyone just curious.
Comments
Well, some people got spoiled on JtL and other fully dimensioned space combat sims. The problem with rails is repeating the same path on every trip out there. It will no dobut lose it's potency on the 2-3 run of the same content, while people were more than happy to find a remote spot to grind out A-wings all day in other versions.
In all honesty, it really does seem like a waste of resources for something that will lose it's face value after the first go with any particular route... but that is not why people are complaining.
They complain because they *can*.
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When people hear about a game, then they immediately have some ideas what it could be about. They have expectations. What is realistic or not comes later. Star Wars... Stars? Space? Space Ships? Flying around in space ships? Of course people think about that. Especially in an MMORPG context, since for many people MMORPGs are also about exploring a world. Following a track on rails does neither have anything to do with exploration nor with free space. If that expectation is realistic or not? Who cares? Add to the mix that there are free space exploration MMORPGs. They can do it too.
Developing a sci-fi MMORPG having to do with space and space ships and all that stuff, and then saying "what, you expected to fly around? Silly you" is a bit like... if you'd walk around in the sahara desert and see a shop with a large sign saying "outdoor snowman building contest, fun for everyone, free entry!", and I enter the shop and ask the owner "snowmen?" and he replies laughing "of course no snowmen! this is the desert you idiot!"
Of course many people assume they can fly around in space. And of course people will be disappointed when they find out they can't. I know I am. Following a track on rails is like the complete opposite of piloting a space ship.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
You need to realise many fans want to repeat the experience of the much-loved X-Wing/TIE Fighter games, where LucasArts have failed to release modern versions. As one of those fans I'm very disappointed at the recent video released as it just looks like a bad console game instead of what we should have in a MMO. Granted the graphics look good but the gameplay looks very simple, dull and only added at the last minute to avoid "rage".
Personally I'd love to explore the Star Wars universe in my little ship as I dodge enemy ships with complete freedom to go where I please, with a component of world PvP if I meet enemy players for exciting dogfights or guild/clan battles.
The game will probably be a hit since so many are bored with the current crop of MMORPGs and "because it's Star Wars" but I'll still feel something is missing from the game if open space gameplay isn't there. I still plan on playing the game though.
The best part of SWG for myself was JtL if I'm honest.
Space combat should not be that hard to sort out especially since it was done on SWG and with $150m of budget for this game I would not have thought it be that hard basically copy over the space component and improve it slightly graphic and mechanic wise.
If you played JtL aswell u'd understand what a lot of people are hoping for space combat wise and see it was not an unreasonable request in a game with a name like STAR wars. Honestly its like calling a game Dogfights: Battle of Britain and just covering the battle from the ground as an anti-aircraft gunner.
And as someone else said it is not just old SWG vets that want good space combat/freedom, anyone that has seen the SW films and likes the space aspect of the movies, those who played the old X-wing/TIE series games and those that just like space combat in general would have wanted space combat at least equal to SWG.
Let's be honest here, SWG didn't have space combat at launch at all, so SW:TOR will already have more in that area.
Of course a lot of people would like a broader space experience than what's offered now, but Bioware decided not to just 'copy and tag' a JTL experience right there. Maybe because their resources were tight up already in other aspects of the game, maybe because they felt it didn't give the right Star Wars feel and they want to do it right later on.
Is this a loss? Sure, most people would want more features in their MMO, the more the better! But all the other MMO's don't have space combat, and those who have both like STO are lacking in other areas.
When you try to measure up a MMO that a game company develops to the ideal picture you have in your mind what a certain MMO should be, then you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
i dont think that you Bioware fans want Freedome at all. You want it all on rails and there has to be a cinematic every 5 minute or so, i can agree that it can be relaxing to play a bioware game every now and then. But in an MMO, im not so sure about it.
Some like a little chocolate in their peanutbutter.
Some like a little peanutbutter in their chocolate.
chocolate = space combat
peanutbutter = traditional MMO ground combat
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
I think this kind of spacecombat fits very good intoo more themepark oriented games....
Many casual players will probably love it, and since casual playersmake up 90% of the MMO market.... guess what?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
"I really don't understand this demand for space freedom...."
To me, a Star Wars MMO/Coop game as a whole wouldn't be Star Wars without a balance of Planetary content and Space content. Without Planetary content much of the story would never have happened... AND without Space, and space exploration and travel, much of the story of Star Wars wouldn't have happened either. Both what happened in space and on Planets are intertwined together and are inseparable the way I see it. If Bioware is going to give Players freedom on Planets then they need to give Players freedom in Space as well for a Star Wars MMO.
Now SW:TOR is basically KOTOR continued, so there is less emphasis on space (granted, I understand that) and more on the story of what happens to characters on planets, but to skimp too much on space also is bad. At the very least Bioware needed to make make the space surrounding planets open and accessable like SWG:JTL. A EVE Online approach to space would have been far too much. The sapce combat video that we have seen is just a tunnel shooter, which is an improvement on KOTOR 1 & 2, but then KOTOR's space content was a joke imho, the only part of KOTOR I think was poorly done. If SW:TOR eventually has space as SWG:JTL did it then it would be just about right imho.
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I heard alot of bad things about the "rail-space" part of the game from people who were complaining about it, just saw a video of it... and tbh while I see that a game having more features and more freedom is a good thing, but that also requires time and resources and etc, I dont remember flying freely around in a spaceship like in EVE while playing kotor and that game was great.
Neither have any of the other star wars games I have played had this aspect in them, I dont remember space exploration being a big part of the movies if barely at all, they would mostly either focus on things happening inside the ships, showing a camera shot of the ships as they already always know where they are going, or there would be some space combat like the kind we have seen that we will get. So I'm not really following when people say that freedom of a ship in space is a necessary component as everything I've experienced from star wars have never been about that.
thats my two cents anyway, not really a big follower of the game as far as news and such goes, but I probably will try the game once its released.
I believe the only possibility of them adding a succesful free-roam space shooter would be by implementing several invisible walls and even so, one would probably spend a good amount of time getting to places where the fun actually is. This may be my opinion, but EVE's flight system is extremely boring. You spend more time flying your ship around than actually doing something meaningful like shooting enemies down.
While this system doesn't support PvP (and I absolutely love PvP), I still aplaud BioWare's approach for it makes the experience far more exciting, condensed, and meaningful. Think about it, in every Star Wars movie, they never show a main character flying around in space trying to get somewhere. Always the space scenes get right to the action. I believe BioWare's approach is far more conducive to a movie-like experience than a free roam would.
These are mini game missions and that is fine to have them on rails.
However Space should be there to explore like the ground game.
Because EVE is too much pointless grinding(mining for credits) in space. It doesn't fit to Star Wars theme, it's not about working boring tasks but to have adventure. Bioware is clearly ditching SWG style "do what you want" and pushing players to adventure with friends and strangers like the movie was. Also they seem to try avoid WoW style BGs, which would be same as local space combat, because they serve no purpose in big picture. And space exploration, I think we have wrong Star franchise here. I doubt they TOR will have very dynamic world rather it will be writer driven experience to fit needs of story.
Like someone said already Bioware is aiming to please majority. And majority loves WoW style game where you don't need to spend whole day preparing, that is easy enough and FUN. Adding space combat brings just more variation to game (hopefully these will be part of story rather than generic BGs) and most likely it won't stay same whole lifetime of TOR, but it will be always designed to please majority.
Because they explored space all the time in the movies. Space is there for wars, you know Star Wars.
Edit: Please remember this is a story based MMO, everything will happen for a reason, if you come to a scene where you're floating in space (like the SW captain video) it will be for a reason, not because you wanted to see the other side of that asteroid.
This game is not a co-op game. Learn something about it before you start running your mouth off please. This is an MMO just like most other MMOs we are familiar with. As a matter of fact I think it will be more MMO than most games. Players running back and forth everywhere while you are out completing your quests. Rarely will you find loading screens, unless of course you planet travel. The devs said 10 percent instance 90 percent open world.... Cannot be a co-op if that is the truth, now can it?
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I would have preferred a more open approach. But from what I've seen of the space game, it'll probably tide me over.
No one is asking for that kind of freedom. I think most people want Jump to light speed freedom. Local freedom to fly around and such. The ability to manuever all over. Like others have said. The content will get dull REALLY fast when you fly the same way every single time.
Would we be having the same discussion if your character was forced to walk a certain path. You want to explore what, oh well there is trees there, stop complaining.
It's the same arguement. Imagine your ship as your avatar and not as a ship and you will start to fathom why this is bad game design.
they also said that space is single player only, not even co-op, and as for the rest (90 percent) being open world... well, that depends on your definition.. calling it co-op is probably closer though as it really is orientated towards single player with the option of bringing a few friends along.
What? It's only co-op if you play it as one, it's only a SPRPG if you play it as one. Didn't they say right out of the gate you can play with friends, friends meaning 2, friends meaning 20? What you said can be said about every other mmo out there. Play alone, with the 'option' to bring friends along, you're not forced.
It's an MMO, get used to it.
That is absolutely NOT true... You don't have to bring friends along the worlds are OPEN and you can find players running around anywhere and everywhere. They don't instance the world off like that. You don't know anything about the game please go learn something first... Maybe space is singleplayer, but the ground is just like any themepark MMO.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
so you are saying that when you get a mission/adventure etc, you dont then go to an 'instance' where you can either solo it. or take along a few friends ? ...
Did you ever watch a Star Wars movie OP? From your question i can only presume that you never did.
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I'm not sureyou or some other posters ever saw a Star Wars movie either.Space combat was not 50% of the movies,it was 20% at best and none of it was space exploration and trading it was either going from point A to B,running away or large battle scenes involving cap ships and fighters.Other thna that most of the movie was ground/on foot based.Yes they were very iconic moments but people exaggeratethe amount of it there was in the films greatly.
But as to the OP,I fully understand the dmenad for more freedom in sapce and hope we ge tmore in space PvP later on at least,but unlike some detractors I do not think it's neceassary or vital to be a good game or evne a good Star Wars game.
No, You don't.... gimme your email , i have something to show you. Very reluctant to do it here on the forums.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
*raises hand* that's what I want. I want about a 20 to 30 hour campaign for each class. The option to team for missions, some random faction pvp and titles or achievements at endgame. When I read about the space combat being a on rails thing I was happy. Sorry dude... Not all of us want swg pre-cu back.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP