The debate really highlights the difference in priorities between Star Wars fans and Bioware fans. Bioware fans really don't give a shit. If it's made by Bioware it's automatically gold.
Star Wars fans seem to be a little more unbiased and critical when looking at TOR.
I'm a huge Star Wars fan but KOTOR's combat was so ****ing bad that I deleted the game after about half an hour.
You can't make up crappy gameplay with a little bit of story and some voice overs, IMO, which is essentially what Bioware is banking everything on at this point.
I know that Cryptic is none too popular right now. But... I am enjoying STO... (AHHH!!!!! WE DON'T HAWK TREK HERE!!!!)
I am digging on the space combat. I have yet to see any real dogfight MMO. Planetside does not count. it hover and rotate or circle strafe until one dies. There was Jumpgate (I think...) Not real dogfight. was Rayden, or Tiger Shark, or 1949, or Time Pilot (wow, this guy is old...) in 3d.
Well STO is just big ships... that not Dogfigthing either...
You want small ship? Get a Runabout.
Yeah the PvP ques suck. But this is a space combat discussion.
My source at Bioware said that the decision to make it a rail shooter was nothing more than a cost cutting measure by management. It was a contentious issue within the company, but of course the executives won out. It has nothing at all to do with "cinematic quality" (Wing Commander had that) or "flying around for hours to do something" (you never did that in X-Wing v TIE) or "accessibility" -- it was money and the higher ups only wanted to spend the bare minimum so they could check off "space combat" and forget it.
My source at Bioware said that the decision to make it a rail shooter was nothing more than a cost cutting measure by management. It was a contentious issue within the company, but of course the executives won out. It has nothing at all to do with "cinematic quality" (Wing Commander had that) or "flying around for hours to do something" (you never did that in X-Wing v TIE) or "accessibility" -- it was money and the higher ups only wanted to spend the bare minimum so they could check off "space combat" and forget it.
Makes sense. It indeed does feel as a tagged-on item, more of a test or experiment, not a feature that has gotten the full attention and resources it'd need to get fully fleshed out.
It looks good graphically, and it is more than SWG had at launch, but it'd already have been a great improvement if the 'hotspots' had free flying and if there would have also been scenarios where both sides would need to fight eachother to reach their objectives. Implementing those things would still have led to a cinematic experience, even more. The fact that those will not be implemented means that they can't or won't spare the resources right now to make space combat more than what it is now. Indeed, a (project) management decision.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
My source at Bioware said that the decision to make it a rail shooter was nothing more than a cost cutting measure by management. It was a contentious issue within the company, but of course the executives won out. It has nothing at all to do with "cinematic quality" (Wing Commander had that) or "flying around for hours to do something" (you never did that in X-Wing v TIE) or "accessibility" -- it was money and the higher ups only wanted to spend the bare minimum so they could check off "space combat" and forget it.
I'm actually starting to get a kick off of people making excuses to justify the half-assed, bare bones execution of space combat for this game.
TOR's space game essentially has stripped down the gameplay advances of space combat games for the last 15-18 years. It is such a HUGE step backwards that it's Dark Helmet "Ludicrous."
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
So you would rather be a slave to rails than have the freedom to fly?
How deep is that?
That's a piss poor way of describing it, but yes. I'd rather have scripted space combat that feels like an amazing experience compared to being a freedom flier.
What that thing is they have is nothing more than a flash game shooter. There is no replayability, and it can be exploited to the Nth degree with a simple bot. Go play the Clone Wars tunnel shooter if you need an idea of what you're getting in SWTOR. No matter the setting the shooter is in, it is still a shooter, and NOT SPACE COMBAT.
What that thing is they have is nothing more than a flash game shooter. There is no replayability, and it can be exploited to the Nth degree with a simple bot. Go play the Clone Wars tunnel shooter if you need an idea of what you're getting in SWTOR. No matter the setting the shooter is in, it is still a shooter, and NOT SPACE COMBAT.
space + combat = space combat
you = fail
Absolutely wrong. Don't let your enthusiasm for the idea of this game oversell you on its reality.
Simple answer , if its not Massive and Persistent whats the point of a piddly side game.... Uhm None.
If they are going to put spce elements in then lets have more adventure locations and the like but a Chu Chu whack a mole side game whats the point, when theres so much good going for the game why pander !!!!
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
This game is designed like KOTOR. There was no space combat in KOTOR other than a silly turret mini-game. As a result, it was foolish for anyone to expect anything but a minigame for the space combat in SWTOR... at least at launch.
Sometimes I wonder if I was playing a different game than a lot of you back in JTL. I thought the space portion of SWG was quite boring. It consisted of fighting NPCs in easy to win missions that felt distinctly like boring grinding after a few hours. I never once encountered any epic space battle awesomeness with other players... maybe because there were so few on the server.
I would MUCH rather Bioware stick to what they are good at than have them waste time and resources trying to appease the whiney SWG vets... That tends to be a foolish endeavor in the development of any game.
I am not that interested in this game and the more I see that they are trying to be like WoW 2.0 mixed with the worn out Bioware dialogue system the more I realize that I will never touch this game.
Still I love what they did with space combat. It looks like a blast. I loved Starfox though...
This game is designed like KOTOR. There was no space combat in KOTOR other than a silly turret mini-game. As a result, it was foolish for anyone to expect anything but a minigame for the space combat in SWTOR... at least at launch.
Sometimes I wonder if I was playing a different game than a lot of you back in JTL. I thought the space portion of SWG was quite boring. It consisted of fighting NPCs in easy to win missions that felt distinctly like boring grinding after a few hours. I never once encountered any epic space battle awesomeness with other players... maybe because there were so few on the server.
I would MUCH rather Bioware stick to what they are good at than have them waste time and resources trying to appease the whiney SWG vets... That tends to be a foolish endeavor in the development of any game.
Would you object if the entire game (including the 'ground' or 'avatar' portions) was a rail shooter? Yes or no?
This game is designed like KOTOR. There was no space combat in KOTOR other than a silly turret mini-game. As a result, it was foolish for anyone to expect anything but a minigame for the space combat in SWTOR... at least at launch.
Sometimes I wonder if I was playing a different game than a lot of you back in JTL. I thought the space portion of SWG was quite boring. It consisted of fighting NPCs in easy to win missions that felt distinctly like boring grinding after a few hours. I never once encountered any epic space battle awesomeness with other players... maybe because there were so few on the server.
I would MUCH rather Bioware stick to what they are good at than have them waste time and resources trying to appease the whiney SWG vets... That tends to be a foolish endeavor in the development of any game.
Yea, that actually would be a recipe for disaster, and any dev team knows that by now. That is why I think BW is trying to take TOR in the opposite direction of SWG, who wants that head ache ya know?
This game is designed like KOTOR. There was no space combat in KOTOR other than a silly turret mini-game. As a result, it was foolish for anyone to expect anything but a minigame for the space combat in SWTOR... at least at launch.
Sometimes I wonder if I was playing a different game than a lot of you back in JTL. I thought the space portion of SWG was quite boring. It consisted of fighting NPCs in easy to win missions that felt distinctly like boring grinding after a few hours. I never once encountered any epic space battle awesomeness with other players... maybe because there were so few on the server.
I would MUCH rather Bioware stick to what they are good at than have them waste time and resources trying to appease the whiney SWG vets... That tends to be a foolish endeavor in the development of any game.
Would you object if the entire game (including the 'ground' or 'avatar' portions) was a rail shooter? Yes or no?
Nope, it would be hilarious on a cap of good acid.
Note to children, this post does not condone illegal substances, drugs are bad m'kay.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Different groups have different expectations...personally, I'd turn the question around...
How can a Star Wars game NOT have good space combat?? I was addicted to X-Wing, Tie Fighter, the VS game etc...to me space combat was the "important" part of Star Wars. Dogfights, blockades, capital ship battles...all that piddly stuff on the ground was just filler. I never played the KOTOR series, or any of the other purely ground based sinlge player RPGs because all that stuff was equivalent to "fartin' around with the ewoks" to me.
The other reason people are so worked up over it is that simply put this was their last chance. With the "clone wars" thing from SOE it became evident that SWG was going to limp along for years yet...SWTOR is the LAST chance for a "new" SW MMO for many many years if not a decade or more.
Originally posted by gilgamesh9 My source at Bioware said that the decision to make it a rail shooter was nothing more than a cost cutting measure by management. It was a contentious issue within the company, but of course the executives won out. It has nothing at all to do with "cinematic quality" (Wing Commander had that) or "flying around for hours to do something" (you never did that in X-Wing v TIE) or "accessibility" -- it was money and the higher ups only wanted to spend the bare minimum so they could check off "space combat" and forget it.
Makes sense. It indeed does feel as a tagged-on item, more of a test or experiment, not a feature that has gotten the full attention and resources it'd need to get fully fleshed out. It looks good graphically, and it is more than SWG had at launch, but it'd already have been a great improvement if the 'hotspots' had free flying and if there would have also been scenarios where both sides would need to fight eachother to reach their objectives. Implementing those things would still have led to a cinematic experience, even more. The fact that those will not be implemented means that they can't or won't spare the resources right now to make space combat more than what it is now. Indeed, a (project) management decision.
My thoughts as well. With the current trends in MMO management I would not be surprised if the Execs are the true Developers, making the decisions (which is the Devs perogative and role imho) then SW:TOR will not be a good game/MMO in my opinion. I wish to financially support a MMO where ALL the design decisions are made by Developers and the Execs are there just to keep the gears turning. Executives ARE NEEDED in the MMO industry, in a MMO publishing corp, but not for Development, they are needed for their financial skills and education, to keep the MMO profitable. When the Execs that are the money people start telling the Devs what to do all the time as far as that MMO is concerned it is sup-par and will be poor. Let the Devs do what they do... make great MMOs, and let the Execs do what they do... keep the Devs from making crazy financial mistakes. (Space content if open world is not a crazy mistake, it is an investment just like any other feature). I will not purchase and financially support a MMO where the Execs have forgotten their place and taken from the Developers the role that belongs to the Devs alone. If what gilgamesh9's says is true, then we will see more evidence of such "executive development" influence before SW:TOR is released.
Thanks for the head's up gilgamesh9, and I will be watching SW:TOR for more news of this sort of thing or for news of Developers actually making the design decisions as it should be.
P.S.: Before anyone flames me for being naive or stupid... if YOU want to support MMOs designed in such a way that the Execs are making key development decisions instead of the Devs... that is your choice. I won't support such a MMO because no Exec can create a MMO as good as a Developer can. Each has their niche and when an Exec starts taking away the Devs decisions making abilities it will be a poor MMO. In my opinion this may be why so many MMOs in the last few years have been garbage.
If the MMO genre can not exist without Executives making all the decisions, than then the Executives can KEEP their MMOs. I don't want them.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!" ............... "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. " __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__ ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
This game is designed like KOTOR. There was no space combat in KOTOR other than a silly turret mini-game. As a result, it was foolish for anyone to expect anything but a minigame for the space combat in SWTOR... at least at launch.
Sometimes I wonder if I was playing a different game than a lot of you back in JTL. I thought the space portion of SWG was quite boring. It consisted of fighting NPCs in easy to win missions that felt distinctly like boring grinding after a few hours. I never once encountered any epic space battle awesomeness with other players... maybe because there were so few on the server.
I would MUCH rather Bioware stick to what they are good at than have them waste time and resources trying to appease the whiney SWG vets... That tends to be a foolish endeavor in the development of any game.
Would you object if the entire game (including the 'ground' or 'avatar' portions) was a rail shooter? Yes or no?
Yes, I would... but that is completely beside the point. People should be expecting a game like Knights of the Old Republic because obviously that is the game SWTOR is being developed like. Space combat was never part of KOTOR and so I personally never expected it to be part of SWTOR... at least not to any large degree.
You guys demanding that a full space sim be added on top of what Bioware is already doing is like demanding that they throw an entirely different game on top of the one they are already making. A classic Bioware RPG is about as different from a space sim as you can get. It's like demanding that they throw a racing game in Call of Duty because you want to be able to drive between each FPS mission... its ridiculous. And just because it was previously done IN A FAILED GAME does not mean it should be done again. In fact, I would bet most developers tend to use SWG as an example of what NOT to do in future projects... for good reason.
Different groups have different expectations...personally, I'd turn the question around...
How can a Star Wars game NOT have good space combat?? I was addicted to X-Wing, Tie Fighter, the VS game etc...to me space combat was the "important" part of Star Wars. Dogfights, blockades, capital ship battles...all that piddly stuff on the ground was just filler. I never played the KOTOR series, or any of the other purely ground based sinlge player RPGs because all that stuff was equivalent to "fartin' around with the ewoks" to me.
The other reason people are so worked up over it is that simply put this was their last chance. With the "clone wars" thing from SOE it became evident that SWG was going to limp along for years yet...SWTOR is the LAST chance for a "new" SW MMO for many many years if not a decade or more.
Well then all I can say is you are wasting your time here. This game has a whole lot of 'farting around with ewoks' as you describe it and none of your X-Wing/Tie-Fighter gameplay. It will obviously never be what you want it to be.
But the good news is you can always go play SWG if its really that important to you. We all know how well everything worked out in that game after all...
My source at Bioware said that the decision to make it a rail shooter was nothing more than a cost cutting measure by management. It was a contentious issue within the company, but of course the executives won out. It has nothing at all to do with "cinematic quality" (Wing Commander had that) or "flying around for hours to do something" (you never did that in X-Wing v TIE) or "accessibility" -- it was money and the higher ups only wanted to spend the bare minimum so they could check off "space combat" and forget it.
I'm actually starting to get a kick off of people making excuses to justify the half-assed, bare bones execution of space combat for this game.
TOR's space game essentially has stripped down the gameplay advances of space combat games for the last 15-18 years. It is such a HUGE step backwards that it's Dark Helmet "Ludicrous."
Agreed...
And just about no one is as excited for this Game, overall, as I have been...But this whole approach to Space is ridiculous if you ask me...And those who say this game was patterned after KOTOR are just clueless...KOTOR was a Single Player Console Game...SWTOR is an MMORPG...You can't say an MMORPG is meant to be exactly like the Single Player Console game...It's dumb logic and I promise you the Devs from BioWare know the difference...They know an awesome Space element will put this game WAY over the top where the competition is concerned...They know it damn well...
I don't claim to know what happened behind the scenes, but here's the way it looks to me...No Space was planned at launch, or for that matter at all initially...Immediately after announcement BioWare/Lucas realizes FAR more people want a Space element then they imagined. Plans begin to come up with some kind of Space Combat knowing it was not in the budget initially....The initial budget is growing massively...The Rail shooter is introduced as a cheap alternative that could be a REAL fun mini Game...They go with the rail shooter knowing it's only going to please some folks right now but at least they can say they have Space Combat in the game...
This mini game is going to be fun...But it's never going to appease those who want a true 360 degree Space sim...It's not going to happen...BioWare should have aimed MUCH higher with the Space element of this game because quite frankly everything in this game should be epic...They could have waited, told us what they were working on, and implemented a truly awe inspiring Space element to this game a year or so after launch...Instead they have just pissed a lot of people off who really want to game to be incredible...That's all they really want...
I could be wrong in this, but I see the current space combat element more as a test, an experiment, while they're still working things out technically with what can be achieved with their current engine and space combat, in order to determine whether space combat and flight in a broader setting is feasible or not for a later date.
About KOTOR: devs have said literally on questions about a KOTOR 3 that SW:TOR will be a 'KOTOR 3,4,5,6,7,8,9, 10, 11 and 12', next to the statements they made of SW:TOR being huge with massive worlds to explore and it being far larger than of all their former games together.
Take it for what it's worth - I know it's the trend to be sceptical about anything devs say - but that's what they said.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
The debate really highlights the difference in priorities between Star Wars fans and Bioware fans. Bioware fans really don't give a shit. If it's made by Bioware it's automatically gold.
Star Wars fans seem to be a little more unbiased and critical when looking at TOR.
I'm a huge Star Wars fan but KOTOR's combat was so ****ing bad that I deleted the game after about half an hour.
You can't make up crappy gameplay with a little bit of story and some voice overs, IMO, which is essentially what Bioware is banking everything on at this point.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
I know that Cryptic is none too popular right now. But... I am enjoying STO... (AHHH!!!!! WE DON'T HAWK TREK HERE!!!!)
I am digging on the space combat. I have yet to see any real dogfight MMO. Planetside does not count. it hover and rotate or circle strafe until one dies. There was Jumpgate (I think...) Not real dogfight. was Rayden, or Tiger Shark, or 1949, or Time Pilot (wow, this guy is old...) in 3d.
Well STO is just big ships... that not Dogfigthing either...
You want small ship? Get a Runabout.
Yeah the PvP ques suck. But this is a space combat discussion.
Anyway, off to detroy Borg cubes.
Remember to be 5km away when they blow hehe...
Tie Fighter/X-wing >>> Starfox.
If you don't understand it, then you didn't play X-Wing.
X-Wing is arguably the best game that LucasArts has ever put out.
Thats.... it.
My source at Bioware said that the decision to make it a rail shooter was nothing more than a cost cutting measure by management. It was a contentious issue within the company, but of course the executives won out. It has nothing at all to do with "cinematic quality" (Wing Commander had that) or "flying around for hours to do something" (you never did that in X-Wing v TIE) or "accessibility" -- it was money and the higher ups only wanted to spend the bare minimum so they could check off "space combat" and forget it.
Makes sense. It indeed does feel as a tagged-on item, more of a test or experiment, not a feature that has gotten the full attention and resources it'd need to get fully fleshed out.
It looks good graphically, and it is more than SWG had at launch, but it'd already have been a great improvement if the 'hotspots' had free flying and if there would have also been scenarios where both sides would need to fight eachother to reach their objectives. Implementing those things would still have led to a cinematic experience, even more. The fact that those will not be implemented means that they can't or won't spare the resources right now to make space combat more than what it is now. Indeed, a (project) management decision.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm actually starting to get a kick off of people making excuses to justify the half-assed, bare bones execution of space combat for this game.
TOR's space game essentially has stripped down the gameplay advances of space combat games for the last 15-18 years. It is such a HUGE step backwards that it's Dark Helmet "Ludicrous."
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
What that thing is they have is nothing more than a flash game shooter. There is no replayability, and it can be exploited to the Nth degree with a simple bot. Go play the Clone Wars tunnel shooter if you need an idea of what you're getting in SWTOR. No matter the setting the shooter is in, it is still a shooter, and NOT SPACE COMBAT.
Absolutely wrong. Don't let your enthusiasm for the idea of this game oversell you on its reality.
Simple answer , if its not Massive and Persistent whats the point of a piddly side game.... Uhm None.
If they are going to put spce elements in then lets have more adventure locations and the like but a Chu Chu whack a mole side game whats the point, when theres so much good going for the game why pander !!!!
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Why not make the whole game a rail shooter?
Not thrilled about space combat , but I am not buying the game for it's space to begin with, so that doesn't really matter to me.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Wow... people are STILL whining about this huh?
This game is designed like KOTOR. There was no space combat in KOTOR other than a silly turret mini-game. As a result, it was foolish for anyone to expect anything but a minigame for the space combat in SWTOR... at least at launch.
Sometimes I wonder if I was playing a different game than a lot of you back in JTL. I thought the space portion of SWG was quite boring. It consisted of fighting NPCs in easy to win missions that felt distinctly like boring grinding after a few hours. I never once encountered any epic space battle awesomeness with other players... maybe because there were so few on the server.
I would MUCH rather Bioware stick to what they are good at than have them waste time and resources trying to appease the whiney SWG vets... That tends to be a foolish endeavor in the development of any game.
I am not that interested in this game and the more I see that they are trying to be like WoW 2.0 mixed with the worn out Bioware dialogue system the more I realize that I will never touch this game.
Still I love what they did with space combat. It looks like a blast. I loved Starfox though...
Would you object if the entire game (including the 'ground' or 'avatar' portions) was a rail shooter? Yes or no?
Yea, that actually would be a recipe for disaster, and any dev team knows that by now. That is why I think BW is trying to take TOR in the opposite direction of SWG, who wants that head ache ya know?
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Nope, it would be hilarious on a cap of good acid.
Note to children, this post does not condone illegal substances, drugs are bad m'kay.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Different groups have different expectations...personally, I'd turn the question around...
How can a Star Wars game NOT have good space combat?? I was addicted to X-Wing, Tie Fighter, the VS game etc...to me space combat was the "important" part of Star Wars. Dogfights, blockades, capital ship battles...all that piddly stuff on the ground was just filler. I never played the KOTOR series, or any of the other purely ground based sinlge player RPGs because all that stuff was equivalent to "fartin' around with the ewoks" to me.
The other reason people are so worked up over it is that simply put this was their last chance. With the "clone wars" thing from SOE it became evident that SWG was going to limp along for years yet...SWTOR is the LAST chance for a "new" SW MMO for many many years if not a decade or more.
My thoughts as well. With the current trends in MMO management I would not be surprised if the Execs are the true Developers, making the decisions (which is the Devs perogative and role imho) then SW:TOR will not be a good game/MMO in my opinion. I wish to financially support a MMO where ALL the design decisions are made by Developers and the Execs are there just to keep the gears turning. Executives ARE NEEDED in the MMO industry, in a MMO publishing corp, but not for Development, they are needed for their financial skills and education, to keep the MMO profitable. When the Execs that are the money people start telling the Devs what to do all the time as far as that MMO is concerned it is sup-par and will be poor. Let the Devs do what they do... make great MMOs, and let the Execs do what they do... keep the Devs from making crazy financial mistakes. (Space content if open world is not a crazy mistake, it is an investment just like any other feature). I will not purchase and financially support a MMO where the Execs have forgotten their place and taken from the Developers the role that belongs to the Devs alone. If what gilgamesh9's says is true, then we will see more evidence of such "executive development" influence before SW:TOR is released.
Thanks for the head's up gilgamesh9, and I will be watching SW:TOR for more news of this sort of thing or for news of Developers actually making the design decisions as it should be.
P.S.: Before anyone flames me for being naive or stupid... if YOU want to support MMOs designed in such a way that the Execs are making key development decisions instead of the Devs... that is your choice. I won't support such a MMO because no Exec can create a MMO as good as a Developer can. Each has their niche and when an Exec starts taking away the Devs decisions making abilities it will be a poor MMO. In my opinion this may be why so many MMOs in the last few years have been garbage.
If the MMO genre can not exist without Executives making all the decisions, than then the Executives can KEEP their MMOs. I don't want them.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Yes, I would... but that is completely beside the point. People should be expecting a game like Knights of the Old Republic because obviously that is the game SWTOR is being developed like. Space combat was never part of KOTOR and so I personally never expected it to be part of SWTOR... at least not to any large degree.
You guys demanding that a full space sim be added on top of what Bioware is already doing is like demanding that they throw an entirely different game on top of the one they are already making. A classic Bioware RPG is about as different from a space sim as you can get. It's like demanding that they throw a racing game in Call of Duty because you want to be able to drive between each FPS mission... its ridiculous. And just because it was previously done IN A FAILED GAME does not mean it should be done again. In fact, I would bet most developers tend to use SWG as an example of what NOT to do in future projects... for good reason.
Well then all I can say is you are wasting your time here. This game has a whole lot of 'farting around with ewoks' as you describe it and none of your X-Wing/Tie-Fighter gameplay. It will obviously never be what you want it to be.
But the good news is you can always go play SWG if its really that important to you. We all know how well everything worked out in that game after all...
Agreed...
And just about no one is as excited for this Game, overall, as I have been...But this whole approach to Space is ridiculous if you ask me...And those who say this game was patterned after KOTOR are just clueless...KOTOR was a Single Player Console Game...SWTOR is an MMORPG...You can't say an MMORPG is meant to be exactly like the Single Player Console game...It's dumb logic and I promise you the Devs from BioWare know the difference...They know an awesome Space element will put this game WAY over the top where the competition is concerned...They know it damn well...
I don't claim to know what happened behind the scenes, but here's the way it looks to me...No Space was planned at launch, or for that matter at all initially...Immediately after announcement BioWare/Lucas realizes FAR more people want a Space element then they imagined. Plans begin to come up with some kind of Space Combat knowing it was not in the budget initially....The initial budget is growing massively...The Rail shooter is introduced as a cheap alternative that could be a REAL fun mini Game...They go with the rail shooter knowing it's only going to please some folks right now but at least they can say they have Space Combat in the game...
This mini game is going to be fun...But it's never going to appease those who want a true 360 degree Space sim...It's not going to happen...BioWare should have aimed MUCH higher with the Space element of this game because quite frankly everything in this game should be epic...They could have waited, told us what they were working on, and implemented a truly awe inspiring Space element to this game a year or so after launch...Instead they have just pissed a lot of people off who really want to game to be incredible...That's all they really want...
I could be wrong in this, but I see the current space combat element more as a test, an experiment, while they're still working things out technically with what can be achieved with their current engine and space combat, in order to determine whether space combat and flight in a broader setting is feasible or not for a later date.
About KOTOR: devs have said literally on questions about a KOTOR 3 that SW:TOR will be a 'KOTOR 3,4,5,6,7,8,9, 10, 11 and 12', next to the statements they made of SW:TOR being huge with massive worlds to explore and it being far larger than of all their former games together.
Take it for what it's worth - I know it's the trend to be sceptical about anything devs say - but that's what they said.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That's a 'tab' of acid actually, kid.