I'm sure you don't care about anyones opinion but first off you didn't follow directions when the mod tells you to bring it back on topic.
Second this game is more like every MMO out there, not just one specific one, If we can get to that point i think we will all be better off. Most MMos now a days have seamless worlds. Other then the art direction and classes this is more akin to Fallen earth then any other game.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
My expectation is for this game to be exactly like WoW only more single-player oriented.
Makes sense, you went into great depth in explaining why. Bravo.
Just look around the industry a bit and you won't need a reason why some feel that's where most games are headed. Whether they turn out to be or not really doesn't matter, in the last few years most games have turned out that way. Most companies follow trends it's as simple as that.
My expectations are basically the same, and they're not of a negative influence. I still think it will be something close to what he said, which isn't exactly a bad thing. It's just not for everyone.
SWTOR doesn't look to much like WoW, if he says he 'expects' it to be, he could explain a bit more.
Single-player oriented, if that's how you plan on playing it. I can't argue with that, they said the game would be soloable from start to finish, you'd miss group content, but level cap without help. This doesn't bother me either, actually neither does it being comparable to WoW.
What I'd like to know is, how?
But he can't talk because of the NDA and all, he just expects it to be like WoW, he doesn't know for sure.
You don't even need anyone to break the NDA to see how similar TOR is to WoW. There is a plethora of information available on this game, including gameplay videos. Not to mention the simple fact that BioWare developers have all but professed their devotion to WoW.
I can go into much more detail but unfortunately this site honors NDA agreements of other corporations so until you actually play the game, you'll be wondering whether I'm right or wrong.
I won't be. I know that you're wrong. Will the game play similar to WoW, yes it will. (In the same way you could say GW2 plays similar to WoW) Will it play exactly like WoW, no, no it won't. I don't even have to break the NDA to tell you that . Could I breach the NDA to prove it? I sure as hell could, and I'm not even in gametesting, but I wouldn't want to endanger those that I know that are. So, you can either find this information yourself by looking up information on the current system, viewing the in game gameplay, or finding leaks to whats currently out there, or you can continue to pretend you know everything about the *limited* gametesting currently going on.
The game is WoW set in Star Wars universe. It's obvious just by watching the gameplay videos.
Combat = standard MMO fare.
Instances = WoW.
Quest driven = WoW.
Gear oriented = WoW.
Raids = WoW.
Battlegrounds = WoW.
Stylized cartoony graphics = WoW.
Dumbed down gameplay = WoW.
How often do you get new skills? Ask your gametesting buddies, since you're not in but know that I'm wrong. lol
I can go on but I believe that we've reached the limit of the stuff not covered by the NDA.
As far as your GW2 comment, unless you were in beta, you can't even comment on the game as we are only now seeing actual gameplay. And you know what? Combat in GW2 looks much more exciting and smoother than in TOR judging by videos alone.
Ha, if you had played the game, you wouldn't have even tested a quarter of the things you just mentioned. Thats called being "untruthful", which you are. Instances? Where? In the flashpoints? I don't even need to break NDA to tell you that the world is completely open, and the world is immense. I don't need to go into telling you that the flashpoints are seamless and you pass through them without a hint of lag. I don't need to tell you that each class has a specific drive that powers the way each skill works, or that there is no Auto Attack, and I don't need to tell you any of that because not only is that NOT breaching the NDA and is prevalent on the DEMOs, but its also very much so the truth. I also know by far that you've never played a RAID, you've never tried a battleground, and that you don't know thing 1 about to what extent the gear selection stage is at or how that effects end game content at all.
And I know all this for a fact. On a side note, whats your name on the SWTOR forums.
If you read carefully, I never mentioned that the things I listed were the things I tested. I deliberately went out of my way to just talk about the information everyone knows so far.
There is a reason I said: "I can go on but I believe that we've reached the limit of the stuff not covered by the NDA."
You don't need to tell me any of those things but my point is that TOR is similar to WoW. WoW, for the most part, has a seamless world and each class has a specific drive that powers the way each skill works. The fact that there is a missing Auto Attack is a minor difference in the overall swing of things.
Its much more then a missing Auto Attack, if you had read my post, and the class mechanic is entirely the "overall swing of things" . I also see that you skipped the last question, but its okay, your credibility has dropped like a rock, you should have just stuck with opinions instead of trying to prove something by saying "You'll see" and citing an NDA breach.
Back on topic now, after that short stint of lunacy,
I just posted another interview this time with Daniel Erickson. This was a much longer and more involved interview then James Ohlens, and a good portion of it was on space combat. Again he confirmed their focus, but I wanted to point out as I did in another thread, no one has asked a single question about expanding the space combat into free roam, if it will be an option, or if there are even plans to have PvP before launch. I think there are quite a few missed opportunities here for the community to show some very vocal interest.
My expectation is for this game to be exactly like WoW only more single-player oriented.
Makes sense, you went into great depth in explaining why. Bravo.
You'll see when you play it.
Thought so.
It's the best I can do without breaking the NDA.
Haven't heard that one before.
Do you honestly think that I care whether you believe me or not? Like I said, you'll find out eventually either way.
Good luck!
Of course you care what we think. You have over 2000 posts on this forum and went to all the trouble of stealing some spiffy signature from someone. We're the hot air in your balloon sonny.
And we don't believe you. Mainly because there's videos out there of TOR gameplay (leaked from manly men who aren't hiding under the NDA skirt) which clearly show TOR as an open world MMO. To top it off TOR has almost no loading screens.
Over 2000 posts over 6 years since I've been a member.
WoW is an open world MMO also, what's your point?
WoW is a single player RPG? Well shiver me timbers! I've been doing it wrong! Were I still playing that game I'd log in right now and tell my guildmates they were all figments of your imagination.
I don't know where you got all of that from but I believe that you need to settle down. You're obviously in an highly confrontational mood and all we are doing is discussing a video game.
BTW, I resent that remark about my sig. I've used it for a long time and while I did not draw the armor guy, I did make the sig. The armor guy was created by sillynd on CGSociety.org.
My expectation is for this game to be exactly like WoW only more single-player oriented.
Makes sense, you went into great depth in explaining why. Bravo.
Just look around the industry a bit and you won't need a reason why some feel that's where most games are headed. Whether they turn out to be or not really doesn't matter, in the last few years most games have turned out that way. Most companies follow trends it's as simple as that.
My expectations are basically the same, and they're not of a negative influence. I still think it will be something close to what he said, which isn't exactly a bad thing. It's just not for everyone.
SWTOR doesn't look to much like WoW, if he says he 'expects' it to be, he could explain a bit more.
Single-player oriented, if that's how you plan on playing it. I can't argue with that, they said the game would be soloable from start to finish, you'd miss group content, but level cap without help. This doesn't bother me either, actually neither does it being comparable to WoW.
What I'd like to know is, how?
But he can't talk because of the NDA and all, he just expects it to be like WoW, he doesn't know for sure.
You don't even need anyone to break the NDA to see how similar TOR is to WoW. There is a plethora of information available on this game, including gameplay videos. Not to mention the simple fact that BioWare developers have all but professed their devotion to WoW.
I can go into much more detail but unfortunately this site honors NDA agreements of other corporations so until you actually play the game, you'll be wondering whether I'm right or wrong.
I won't be. I know that you're wrong. Will the game play similar to WoW, yes it will. (In the same way you could say GW2 plays similar to WoW) Will it play exactly like WoW, no, no it won't. I don't even have to break the NDA to tell you that . Could I breach the NDA to prove it? I sure as hell could, and I'm not even in gametesting, but I wouldn't want to endanger those that I know that are. So, you can either find this information yourself by looking up information on the current system, viewing the in game gameplay, or finding leaks to whats currently out there, or you can continue to pretend you know everything about the *limited* gametesting currently going on.
The game is WoW set in Star Wars universe. It's obvious just by watching the gameplay videos.
Combat = standard MMO fare.
Instances = WoW.
Quest driven = WoW.
Gear oriented = WoW.
Raids = WoW.
Battlegrounds = WoW.
Stylized cartoony graphics = WoW.
Dumbed down gameplay = WoW.
How often do you get new skills? Ask your gametesting buddies, since you're not in but know that I'm wrong. lol
I can go on but I believe that we've reached the limit of the stuff not covered by the NDA.
As far as your GW2 comment, unless you were in beta, you can't even comment on the game as we are only now seeing actual gameplay. And you know what? Combat in GW2 looks much more exciting and smoother than in TOR judging by videos alone.
Ha, if you had played the game, you wouldn't have even tested a quarter of the things you just mentioned. Thats called being "untruthful", which you are. Instances? Where? In the flashpoints? I don't even need to break NDA to tell you that the world is completely open, and the world is immense. I don't need to go into telling you that the flashpoints are seamless and you pass through them without a hint of lag. I don't need to tell you that each class has a specific drive that powers the way each skill works, or that there is no Auto Attack, and I don't need to tell you any of that because not only is that NOT breaching the NDA and is prevalent on the DEMOs, but its also very much so the truth. I also know by far that you've never played a RAID, you've never tried a battleground, and that you don't know thing 1 about to what extent the gear selection stage is at or how that effects end game content at all.
And I know all this for a fact. On a side note, whats your name on the SWTOR forums.
If you read carefully, I never mentioned that the things I listed were the things I tested. I deliberately went out of my way to just talk about the information everyone knows so far.
There is a reason I said: "I can go on but I believe that we've reached the limit of the stuff not covered by the NDA."
You don't need to tell me any of those things but my point is that TOR is similar to WoW. WoW, for the most part, has a seamless world and each class has a specific drive that powers the way each skill works. The fact that there is a missing Auto Attack is a minor difference in the overall swing of things.
Its much more then a missing Auto Attack, if you had read my post, and the class mechanic is entirely the "overall swing of things" . I also see that you skipped the last question, but its okay, your credibility has dropped like a rock, you should have just stuck with opinions instead of trying to prove something by saying "You'll see" and citing an NDA breach.
Back on topic now, after that short stint of lunacy,
I just posted another interview this time with Daniel Erickson. This was a much longer and more involved interview then James Ohlens, and a good portion of it was on space combat. Again he confirmed their focus, but I wanted to point out as I did in another thread, no one has asked a single question about expanding the space combat into free roam, if it will be an option, or if there are even plans to have PvP before launch. I think there are quite a few missed opportunities here for the community to show some very vocal interest.
I've lost credibility because I won't disclose my user name on TOR's forums? lol ok boss.
Its much more then a missing Auto Attack, if you had read my post, and the class mechanic is entirely the "overall swing of things" . I also see that you skipped the last question, but its okay, your credibility has dropped like a rock, you should have just stuck with opinions instead of trying to prove something by saying "You'll see" and citing an NDA breach.
Back on topic now, after that short stint of lunacy,
I just posted another interview this time with Daniel Erickson. This was a much longer and more involved interview then James Ohlens, and a good portion of it was on space combat. Again he confirmed their focus, but I wanted to point out as I did in another thread, no one has asked a single question about expanding the space combat into free roam, if it will be an option, or if there are even plans to have PvP before launch. I think there are quite a few missed opportunities here for the community to show some very vocal interest.
I've lost credibility because I won't disclose my user name on TOR's forums? lol ok boss.
The fact that you dismissed a number of my points, actual facts of the game, have no proof that you're even a member of the TOR forums (my username is Deksam btw) and comment on features without any claims to back up said comments, most of which, you can't, because even the regular gameplay demos can easily prove that if ANYTHING the flow of combat is very different if you actually watch and dissect it, really knocks your credibility. I expected more of an actual conversation from a veteran of this site instead of baseless arguments, but 30 minutes on DarthHater to see their in depth breakdown of the features would really do wonders for your case -- or lack thereof.
This interview with Erickson from Gamescon talks a bit about what makes TOR different. As well as a bit more on space combat and the reasons why they went the way they did. If anyone is enterested.
Space combat may not be all optional and it could be a way to earn xp along with battlegrounds giving you xp as well.
I noticed that as well, I wonder if space combat will be less optional for certain classes. I would expect the smuggler to have a number of space missions that others may not encounter.
This interview with Erickson from Gamescon talks a bit about what makes TOR different. As well as a bit more on space combat and the reasons why they went the way they did. If anyone is enterested.
Space combat may not be all optional and it could be a way to earn xp along with battlegrounds giving you xp as well.
I noticed that as well, I wonder if space combat will be less optional for certain classes. I would expect the smuggler to have a number of space missions that others may not encounter.
It did sound like it was a posiblity for class quest lines. So I would also think that the smuggler would be the class to have space combat as part of the story arc. Other classes could have protection quests or chase quests for space. Just to introduce the space combat to players as a tutorial. Then each player could chose to continue the space combat or not do it at all.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Its much more then a missing Auto Attack, if you had read my post, and the class mechanic is entirely the "overall swing of things" . I also see that you skipped the last question, but its okay, your credibility has dropped like a rock, you should have just stuck with opinions instead of trying to prove something by saying "You'll see" and citing an NDA breach.
Back on topic now, after that short stint of lunacy,
I just posted another interview this time with Daniel Erickson. This was a much longer and more involved interview then James Ohlens, and a good portion of it was on space combat. Again he confirmed their focus, but I wanted to point out as I did in another thread, no one has asked a single question about expanding the space combat into free roam, if it will be an option, or if there are even plans to have PvP before launch. I think there are quite a few missed opportunities here for the community to show some very vocal interest.
I've lost credibility because I won't disclose my user name on TOR's forums? lol ok boss.
The fact that you dismissed a number of my points, actual facts of the game, have no proof that you're even a member of the TOR forums (my username is Deksam btw) and comment on features without any claims to back up said comments, most of which, you can't, because even the regular gameplay demos can easily prove that if ANYTHING the flow of combat is very different if you actually watch and dissect it, really knocks your credibility. I expected more of an actual conversation from a veteran of this site instead of baseless arguments, but 30 minutes on DarthHater to see their in depth breakdown of the features would really do wonders for your case -- or lack thereof.
If we were having this discussion on one of the TOR tester squadron forums, I would love to comment on those features and discuss them in depth. However, since there is still NDA in effect and I am not even sure what is covered by it and what is not at this point, as I don't really follow the release of information on this game anymore, I choose not to discuss certain things in depth as I do not want to jeopardize my MMORPG.com account.
Its much more then a missing Auto Attack, if you had read my post, and the class mechanic is entirely the "overall swing of things" . I also see that you skipped the last question, but its okay, your credibility has dropped like a rock, you should have just stuck with opinions instead of trying to prove something by saying "You'll see" and citing an NDA breach.
Back on topic now, after that short stint of lunacy,
I just posted another interview this time with Daniel Erickson. This was a much longer and more involved interview then James Ohlens, and a good portion of it was on space combat. Again he confirmed their focus, but I wanted to point out as I did in another thread, no one has asked a single question about expanding the space combat into free roam, if it will be an option, or if there are even plans to have PvP before launch. I think there are quite a few missed opportunities here for the community to show some very vocal interest.
I've lost credibility because I won't disclose my user name on TOR's forums? lol ok boss.
The fact that you dismissed a number of my points, actual facts of the game, have no proof that you're even a member of the TOR forums (my username is Deksam btw) and comment on features without any claims to back up said comments, most of which, you can't, because even the regular gameplay demos can easily prove that if ANYTHING the flow of combat is very different if you actually watch and dissect it, really knocks your credibility. I expected more of an actual conversation from a veteran of this site instead of baseless arguments, but 30 minutes on DarthHater to see their in depth breakdown of the features would really do wonders for your case -- or lack thereof.
If we were having this discussion on one of the TOR tester squadron forums, I would love to comment on those features and discuss them in depth. However, since there is still NDA in effect and I am not even sure what is covered by it and what is not at this point, as I don't really follow the release of information on this game anymore, I choose not to discuss certain things in depth as I do not want to jeopardize my MMORPG.com account.
Then lets keep it to an understanding that you have specific reasons to believe what you believe based on your experience, and I, on the other hand, have differing opinions because of my very specific reasons that are also comprised outside the NDA. To this we can both attest to agreeing to disagree on enjoyment and clarity of what these features will bring.
Between the both of us, 3 months down the line, our information will most likely be outdated anyway, unless we both plan to keep up with it. We are still a good ways away from launch and everything is subject to change. Maybe they will add that auto attack and dumb down the current mechanics. Maybe they will add a free roam space area. Before we make definitive statements on what we all will be playing at launch, we should at least be comfortable with the overall flow of the information and gameplay released and then confirmed as the final product, which, right now even with all of my information, I am not comfortable with etching that in stone.
On a side note, it may be to both our advantage to see the newest gametesting build they have open to the public at Gamescom, Daniel Erickson mentioned something about it..... I wonder if space combat may also be playable? Maybe too early to tell.
I expect the game to sell around 1.5 mil copies in first month. After that its up to one thing only - how much content there is in the game.
This is the only thing that will make or break this game.
Since its not true MMO - but heavily quest based rpg. Once you run out of quests the game is more or less over.
Judging from such heavy focus on production, voice overs, story. Its almost impossible there will be real big number of quest all together.
I expect that hardcore mmo player will burn trough the game in month time. And than find there is nothing more to do.
And than the problems for swtor will start
I just don't get where these people get this idea from..... It has been said roughly 100 times that the game will feature all of the MMO aspects we come to expect: Crafting, "Dungeons" (flashpoints), Raids, BG's, etc. They did 100% say there will be Raids in the game. Whether that happens, who knows, but they have announced that.
I'm honestly asking.... did Blizzard announce any of their Raids before WoW came out? And how many were actually availiable within the first 3 months? I believe that MC was the only one availiable at launch, I could be wrong, and they released more as the game grew. All we knew about WoW before launch, was, "Cool I can level a Warcraft character and class to level 60, and Raid Molten Core.... maybe do some Leatherworking and skinning? AWSOME!!" How does THAT sound like WoW would be such a huge hit?
If you ask me, everything Bioware has announced for SWTOR has pointed to a much more full, fun, and awsome experience right out of the box, and that's ONLY the story aspects of the game and how they intertwine with one another and the numerous choices we'll have.
All in all people really need to back off with all these assumptions that it's not an MMO. It seems like people are expecting the game to be completely Finished at launch. MMO's are NOT like that, so people really need to relax and take, what looks to be, a VERY polished, VERY nice starting ground, and have fun with it, and let what Bioware has planned come as it comes.
No matter what, you can't please everyone. Initially I would have said "if you touch a known IP.." but now I realize it doesn't matter.
If it's a known IP, there will always be those "Han Shot First"ers who see it how they see it. Lucas himself could write this game and there'd be loud complainers. People whine, it's a fact.
However, even games with no known IP (CoH, EQ, etc), people develop expectation in a vacuum and then are irked when these imaginary terms aren't met.
In the end, Bioware should pick it's vision, stay true to that vision, and make the game they want. Lots of people will buy and play it, some will complain, but cater to their target audience, their defined demographic, they'll be fine.
Obviously one can't please everyone it's true. What's also true is BW doesn't own SW, so they shouldn't be allowed to run rampant with the canon just because they pick a grey era in the timeline.
I am glad it was announced that after this game, LA is not allowing anymore developers outside of LA to make anymore SW games. Because obviously not one single company so far stays true to the SW vision and instead they usually stay focused on Blizzard's wallet.
I had hoped BW would stay true to SW and show SOE how it's done, but ever since "Force Unleashed", they have taken way too many "artistic liberties" with the SW canon.
Between the both of us, 3 months down the line, our information will most likely be outdated anyway, unless we both plan to keep up with it. We are still a good ways away from launch and everything is subject to change. Maybe they will add that auto attack and dumb down the current mechanics. Maybe they will add a free roam space area. Before we make definitive statements on what we all will be playing at launch, we should at least be comfortable with the overall flow of the information and gameplay released and then confirmed as the final product, which, right now even with all of my information, I am not comfortable with etching that in stone.
You're absolutely right, we are a long time away from launch and lots of things can change. I had, and still have, a lot of hope for this game, being a huge Star Wars and BioWare fan. Hopefully, at least some of my desires for this game will be realized.
If not, I may still play it for the stories which, judging by BioWare's other games, should be great.
I think it would be quicker to summarize what I'm not expecting: pre-NGE (or even pre-CU) SWG. I'm expecting a Bioware Star Wars RPG with all the awesomeness that usually entails. Everything I've seen about TOR so far has left me eagerly awaiting its release; I've seen nothing to put me off. Although the rails space combat is kind of "meh" - I honestly wouldn't have been bothered if they'd left it out entirely or just added it at a later date.
Originally posted by Bunnyking If you want to fly a ship, go play EVE. End of. SW:TOR is not a space flight game. It's not. NOT. OKAY?! Ok.
Indeed, why should SW have space combat? There are no armed starships in SW. Ever seen a starship shooting laser beams in SW? Must be dreaming or hallucinating! None of SW starships ever had weapons. Definitely. Oh, the Death Star thingy? It was just a fertilizing beam for terraforming purposes. Yep. Don't think of space combat, don't ask for it, and you will get a Jar-Jar companion for FREE!
This game is pretty much a disappointment to me. When you remove the Star Wars theme from the game, it looks just like every other MMO that came before it being heralded as the next big thing. The combat videos look exactly like WoW, EQ2, WAR, AoC, LOTRO, Aion, etc. The space combat is on the rails, which is a completely botched opportunity to make something that could have set this game apart from other "AAA" disasters. There is little information about the end game which should frighten people.
After you played through the story, seen all the cutscenes, listened to all the voice acting, there will be nothing. You can reroll to relive the story over again as a different character, or you can quit. I love Bioware as much as the next guy with their single player games, but outside of the IP the gameplay looks recylced from the MMO graveyard. With one of the biggest budgets for a video game, it's amazing to me that they are doubling down on a failed formula that will have 70% of the players leaving by the 90 day mark. Considering they need to sustain a million people for an extended length of time to break even, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see how this could be a recipe for disaster.
I agree... For me this smells of "Age of conan" where if you finished the story... there you stood and had nothing to do. And then you realised how small and empty the world in itself is.. And how this whole story experienced felt like someone just dragged you along holding your hand.
Bioware is good in SPRPGs. Anything i heard about the end game from them was something in the line of " Reroll and try the story again".
To be more on topic i don't know what my expectations were... I enjoy both Themaparks and sandboxes alike. I woud say i expected some freedom in class and race selection... which would encompass most of the star wars diversity of races which seems not to be the case. I expected classes to be more "vague" in their charcter... Jedi, sith, scoundrel and soldier and branching off to whatever one would like for grater freedom. And what we got is the more restricted version of the typical tank and spank veriaty...
I'm not really impressed with anything this game has shown. The graphics are horrible looking so far. The strict armor sets are a horrible idea that should have died with warhammer online. The space combat i won't even comment on...
I understand why they have all those limitations... VO nd "story" being to blame here... But for so much money and a good RPG studio i expected better...
Still i might be pleasently surprised... We'll see...
I've been uplinked and downloaded, I've been inputted and outsourced. I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading.
I'm a high-tech low-life. A cutting-edge, state-of-the-art, bi-coastal multi-tasker, and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond.
I'm new-wave, but I'm old-school; and my inner child is outward-bound.
I'm a hot-wired, heat-seeking, warm-hearted cool customer; voice-activated and bio-degradable.
Another whiny article about space combat?! COME ON!
Get over it and write some interesting stuff. I'm just about getting sick of all the whining and nagging on this particular subject. It's not important in this mmorpg. If you want to fly a ship, go play EVE. End of. SW:TOR is not a space flight game. It's not. NOT.
OKAY?! Ok.
Agreed, I also find it amusing and slightly hypocritical that the article writer first goes on about how 'SWG vets', need to get over the whole sandbox star wars thing and then latter does exactly the same thing those vets do by complaining about an aspect of the game that he doesn't feel is Star Warsy enough , (translated: the space side isn't like Jump to Lightspeed, I know he stated he didn't want that, but considering what he wrote before I don't believe him :P).
To me the space combat looks fun and could be a nice diversion. Time will tell if it works out that way.
The 150M$ went poof it seems. For me, the budget alone offers no excuses. Allods Online had a budget of 12M and is called the most expensive FTP game. Black Prophecy with spectacular arcade space combat which is just perfect for TOR, is also going to be FTP, with a budget surely even lower than Allods. So now we have Bioware with 150M who can't deliver what a FTP game can deliver for under 10M? Please. Dual gaming modes are getting popular nowadays, even among the FTP crowd (Florensia). Is it me or the more money a big studio spends on a game, the less they deliver for the value? I repeat, a minigame space combat on rails in a 150M dollar game? It must be a joke right? Correct me if I'm wrong but wasnt the budget of Half Life 2 a mere 8M? Where did Bioware spend all the milions? On voice acting, that 85% of the players will skip? On licensing to Lucas? Because the trailers I've seen show a game made for 20M top.
As Soon as i knew EA was involved my expectations became zero. I figured right away that they would throw out any sandbox elements and turn this into a creature drop game, with a bunch of kids pugging and town sitting AFK, 50 foot tall Raid bosses and instance caves in Korriban. The only differance between this and wow is instead of getting on the Zep or Tram now you get on the Falcon drop ship. Lame.
I'm just going to wait on CCPs new game, I don't do Themepark anymore, thats for kids.
You don't even need anyone to break the NDA to see how similar TOR is to WoW. There is a plethora of information available on this game, including gameplay videos. Not to mention the simple fact that BioWare developers have all but professed their devotion to WoW.
I can go into much more detail but unfortunately this site honors NDA agreements of other corporations so until you actually play the game, you'll be wondering whether I'm right or wrong.
I've seen many leaked vidoes read most of the articles seen some screen shots both released and leaked, I know a guy who says he's in the beta, don't buy it. Yeah can't say I see much of a resemblence unless WoW is the only game/MMO you've played.
Lets compile a list of known resemblences then? I'll start
Given everything that has been released, I expect SWTOR to be a fun game to play single-player and do some grouping in as you complete what is sure to be a well-written and interesting storyline. I expect it to provide approximately a month of gameplay in worst case and two months in best case. I expect it to be completely shallow and uninteresting as an MMO and have little to no reason to stick around after the initial storyline is (quickly) done.
I expect to buy the game pretty much regardless of any new information. I love BioWare's single-player games and I know they'll deliver me at least that for my $50. To me, any game that delivers a month of fun is more than worth the money.
At the same time, I'm hugely disappointed in the approach BioWare took in developing a massive and well-documented world into a streamlined, pre-written, mostly single-player experience that is satisfied to merely tell each person a small story. This may be enough for quick entertainment games like Mass Effect (awesome!) and KOTOR (awesome!) but it's not a good aspiration for the genre where the key accomplishment is the type of world you build for player to inhabit.
It didn't need to be SWG2 or X-Wing, but it should have aimed higher in striving to provide the star wars experience than simply settling for being "Disney's Lightsaber Orgy: Now featuring JediFox minigame".
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
No matter what, you can't please everyone. Initially I would have said "if you touch a known IP.." but now I realize it doesn't matter.
If it's a known IP, there will always be those "Han Shot First"ers who see it how they see it. Lucas himself could write this game and there'd be loud complainers. People whine, it's a fact.
However, even games with no known IP (CoH, EQ, etc), people develop expectation in a vacuum and then are irked when these imaginary terms aren't met.
In the end, Bioware should pick it's vision, stay true to that vision, and make the game they want. Lots of people will buy and play it, some will complain, but cater to their target audience, their defined demographic, they'll be fine.
That was beautiful.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Given everything that has been released, I expect SWTOR to be a fun game to play single-player and do some grouping in as you complete what is sure to be a well-written and interesting storyline. I expect it to provide approximately a month of gameplay in worst case and two months in best case. I expect it to be completely shallow and uninteresting as an MMO and have little to no reason to stick around after the initial storyline is (quickly) done.
I expect to buy the game pretty much regardless of any new information. I love BioWare's single-player games and I know they'll deliver me at least that for my $50. To me, any game that delivers a month of fun is more than worth the money.
At the same time, I'm hugely disappointed in the approach BioWare took in developing a massive and well-documented world into a streamlined, pre-written, mostly single-player experience that is satisfied to merely tell each person a small story. This may be enough for quick entertainment games like Mass Effect (awesome!) and KOTOR (awesome!) but it's not a good aspiration for the genre where the key accomplishment is the type of world you build for player to inhabit.
It didn't need to be SWG2 or X-Wing, but it should have aimed higher in striving to provide the star wars experience than simply settling for being "Disney's Lightsaber Orgy: Now featuring JediFox minigame".
200 hours of story for each class... that is a "small story" in your eyes? quickly done? And that is just the story, not all of the other things you can do in order to level and interact with other people. If that's a month of gameplay in your mind, that really says a lot about the state of your mind.
I did not expect anything at all (in terms of space combat) but they also mentioned that this is just a stepping stone in SWTOR and that space combat would evolve post launch. For me the trailer was exciting and would ad to the story in the PVE world remember this is the first MMO to have full voice overs for the majority of quest lines and the story and progression is all that matters to me. BTW I am a huge Star Wars fan so just seeing anything from the Star Wars universe gives me a *stiffy ^_^
Comments
I'm sure you don't care about anyones opinion but first off you didn't follow directions when the mod tells you to bring it back on topic.
Second this game is more like every MMO out there, not just one specific one, If we can get to that point i think we will all be better off. Most MMos now a days have seamless worlds. Other then the art direction and classes this is more akin to Fallen earth then any other game.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Its much more then a missing Auto Attack, if you had read my post, and the class mechanic is entirely the "overall swing of things" . I also see that you skipped the last question, but its okay, your credibility has dropped like a rock, you should have just stuck with opinions instead of trying to prove something by saying "You'll see" and citing an NDA breach.
Back on topic now, after that short stint of lunacy,
I just posted another interview this time with Daniel Erickson. This was a much longer and more involved interview then James Ohlens, and a good portion of it was on space combat. Again he confirmed their focus, but I wanted to point out as I did in another thread, no one has asked a single question about expanding the space combat into free roam, if it will be an option, or if there are even plans to have PvP before launch. I think there are quite a few missed opportunities here for the community to show some very vocal interest.
I don't know where you got all of that from but I believe that you need to settle down. You're obviously in an highly confrontational mood and all we are doing is discussing a video game.
BTW, I resent that remark about my sig. I've used it for a long time and while I did not draw the armor guy, I did make the sig. The armor guy was created by sillynd on CGSociety.org.
I've lost credibility because I won't disclose my user name on TOR's forums? lol ok boss.
The fact that you dismissed a number of my points, actual facts of the game, have no proof that you're even a member of the TOR forums (my username is Deksam btw) and comment on features without any claims to back up said comments, most of which, you can't, because even the regular gameplay demos can easily prove that if ANYTHING the flow of combat is very different if you actually watch and dissect it, really knocks your credibility. I expected more of an actual conversation from a veteran of this site instead of baseless arguments, but 30 minutes on DarthHater to see their in depth breakdown of the features would really do wonders for your case -- or lack thereof.
I noticed that as well, I wonder if space combat will be less optional for certain classes. I would expect the smuggler to have a number of space missions that others may not encounter.
It did sound like it was a posiblity for class quest lines. So I would also think that the smuggler would be the class to have space combat as part of the story arc. Other classes could have protection quests or chase quests for space. Just to introduce the space combat to players as a tutorial. Then each player could chose to continue the space combat or not do it at all.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
If we were having this discussion on one of the TOR tester squadron forums, I would love to comment on those features and discuss them in depth. However, since there is still NDA in effect and I am not even sure what is covered by it and what is not at this point, as I don't really follow the release of information on this game anymore, I choose not to discuss certain things in depth as I do not want to jeopardize my MMORPG.com account.
Then lets keep it to an understanding that you have specific reasons to believe what you believe based on your experience, and I, on the other hand, have differing opinions because of my very specific reasons that are also comprised outside the NDA. To this we can both attest to agreeing to disagree on enjoyment and clarity of what these features will bring.
Between the both of us, 3 months down the line, our information will most likely be outdated anyway, unless we both plan to keep up with it. We are still a good ways away from launch and everything is subject to change. Maybe they will add that auto attack and dumb down the current mechanics. Maybe they will add a free roam space area. Before we make definitive statements on what we all will be playing at launch, we should at least be comfortable with the overall flow of the information and gameplay released and then confirmed as the final product, which, right now even with all of my information, I am not comfortable with etching that in stone.
On a side note, it may be to both our advantage to see the newest gametesting build they have open to the public at Gamescom, Daniel Erickson mentioned something about it..... I wonder if space combat may also be playable? Maybe too early to tell.
I just don't get where these people get this idea from..... It has been said roughly 100 times that the game will feature all of the MMO aspects we come to expect: Crafting, "Dungeons" (flashpoints), Raids, BG's, etc. They did 100% say there will be Raids in the game. Whether that happens, who knows, but they have announced that.
I'm honestly asking.... did Blizzard announce any of their Raids before WoW came out? And how many were actually availiable within the first 3 months? I believe that MC was the only one availiable at launch, I could be wrong, and they released more as the game grew. All we knew about WoW before launch, was, "Cool I can level a Warcraft character and class to level 60, and Raid Molten Core.... maybe do some Leatherworking and skinning? AWSOME!!" How does THAT sound like WoW would be such a huge hit?
If you ask me, everything Bioware has announced for SWTOR has pointed to a much more full, fun, and awsome experience right out of the box, and that's ONLY the story aspects of the game and how they intertwine with one another and the numerous choices we'll have.
All in all people really need to back off with all these assumptions that it's not an MMO. It seems like people are expecting the game to be completely Finished at launch. MMO's are NOT like that, so people really need to relax and take, what looks to be, a VERY polished, VERY nice starting ground, and have fun with it, and let what Bioware has planned come as it comes.
Obviously one can't please everyone it's true. What's also true is BW doesn't own SW, so they shouldn't be allowed to run rampant with the canon just because they pick a grey era in the timeline.
I am glad it was announced that after this game, LA is not allowing anymore developers outside of LA to make anymore SW games. Because obviously not one single company so far stays true to the SW vision and instead they usually stay focused on Blizzard's wallet.
I had hoped BW would stay true to SW and show SOE how it's done, but ever since "Force Unleashed", they have taken way too many "artistic liberties" with the SW canon.
You're absolutely right, we are a long time away from launch and lots of things can change. I had, and still have, a lot of hope for this game, being a huge Star Wars and BioWare fan. Hopefully, at least some of my desires for this game will be realized.
If not, I may still play it for the stories which, judging by BioWare's other games, should be great.
I think it would be quicker to summarize what I'm not expecting: pre-NGE (or even pre-CU) SWG. I'm expecting a Bioware Star Wars RPG with all the awesomeness that usually entails. Everything I've seen about TOR so far has left me eagerly awaiting its release; I've seen nothing to put me off. Although the rails space combat is kind of "meh" - I honestly wouldn't have been bothered if they'd left it out entirely or just added it at a later date.
i realy realy realy love StarWars... but this is not StarWars
Indeed, why should SW have space combat? There are no armed starships in SW. Ever seen a starship shooting laser beams in SW? Must be dreaming or hallucinating! None of SW starships ever had weapons. Definitely. Oh, the Death Star thingy? It was just a fertilizing beam for terraforming purposes. Yep. Don't think of space combat, don't ask for it, and you will get a Jar-Jar companion for FREE!
Great expectations before release, big disappointments after release.
I agree... For me this smells of "Age of conan" where if you finished the story... there you stood and had nothing to do. And then you realised how small and empty the world in itself is.. And how this whole story experienced felt like someone just dragged you along holding your hand.
Bioware is good in SPRPGs. Anything i heard about the end game from them was something in the line of " Reroll and try the story again".
To be more on topic i don't know what my expectations were... I enjoy both Themaparks and sandboxes alike. I woud say i expected some freedom in class and race selection... which would encompass most of the star wars diversity of races which seems not to be the case. I expected classes to be more "vague" in their charcter... Jedi, sith, scoundrel and soldier and branching off to whatever one would like for grater freedom. And what we got is the more restricted version of the typical tank and spank veriaty...
I'm not really impressed with anything this game has shown. The graphics are horrible looking so far. The strict armor sets are a horrible idea that should have died with warhammer online. The space combat i won't even comment on...
I understand why they have all those limitations... VO nd "story" being to blame here... But for so much money and a good RPG studio i expected better...
Still i might be pleasently surprised... We'll see...
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RIP George Carlin.
Agreed, I also find it amusing and slightly hypocritical that the article writer first goes on about how 'SWG vets', need to get over the whole sandbox star wars thing and then latter does exactly the same thing those vets do by complaining about an aspect of the game that he doesn't feel is Star Warsy enough , (translated: the space side isn't like Jump to Lightspeed, I know he stated he didn't want that, but considering what he wrote before I don't believe him :P).
To me the space combat looks fun and could be a nice diversion. Time will tell if it works out that way.
The 150M$ went poof it seems. For me, the budget alone offers no excuses. Allods Online had a budget of 12M and is called the most expensive FTP game. Black Prophecy with spectacular arcade space combat which is just perfect for TOR, is also going to be FTP, with a budget surely even lower than Allods. So now we have Bioware with 150M who can't deliver what a FTP game can deliver for under 10M? Please. Dual gaming modes are getting popular nowadays, even among the FTP crowd (Florensia). Is it me or the more money a big studio spends on a game, the less they deliver for the value? I repeat, a minigame space combat on rails in a 150M dollar game? It must be a joke right? Correct me if I'm wrong but wasnt the budget of Half Life 2 a mere 8M? Where did Bioware spend all the milions? On voice acting, that 85% of the players will skip? On licensing to Lucas? Because the trailers I've seen show a game made for 20M top.
My Guild Wars 2 First Beta Weekend "reviewette" : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4944570/thread/349125#4944570
As Soon as i knew EA was involved my expectations became zero. I figured right away that they would throw out any sandbox elements and turn this into a creature drop game, with a bunch of kids pugging and town sitting AFK, 50 foot tall Raid bosses and instance caves in Korriban. The only differance between this and wow is instead of getting on the Zep or Tram now you get on the Falcon drop ship. Lame.
I'm just going to wait on CCPs new game, I don't do Themepark anymore, thats for kids.
This can be said about most MMOs out there now.
Given everything that has been released, I expect SWTOR to be a fun game to play single-player and do some grouping in as you complete what is sure to be a well-written and interesting storyline. I expect it to provide approximately a month of gameplay in worst case and two months in best case. I expect it to be completely shallow and uninteresting as an MMO and have little to no reason to stick around after the initial storyline is (quickly) done.
I expect to buy the game pretty much regardless of any new information. I love BioWare's single-player games and I know they'll deliver me at least that for my $50. To me, any game that delivers a month of fun is more than worth the money.
At the same time, I'm hugely disappointed in the approach BioWare took in developing a massive and well-documented world into a streamlined, pre-written, mostly single-player experience that is satisfied to merely tell each person a small story. This may be enough for quick entertainment games like Mass Effect (awesome!) and KOTOR (awesome!) but it's not a good aspiration for the genre where the key accomplishment is the type of world you build for player to inhabit.
It didn't need to be SWG2 or X-Wing, but it should have aimed higher in striving to provide the star wars experience than simply settling for being "Disney's Lightsaber Orgy: Now featuring JediFox minigame".
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
That was beautiful.
200 hours of story for each class... that is a "small story" in your eyes? quickly done? And that is just the story, not all of the other things you can do in order to level and interact with other people. If that's a month of gameplay in your mind, that really says a lot about the state of your mind.
I did not expect anything at all (in terms of space combat) but they also mentioned that this is just a stepping stone in SWTOR and that space combat would evolve post launch. For me the trailer was exciting and would ad to the story in the PVE world remember this is the first MMO to have full voice overs for the majority of quest lines and the story and progression is all that matters to me. BTW I am a huge Star Wars fan so just seeing anything from the Star Wars universe gives me a *stiffy ^_^
Just My 2 Cents.